#and i see all my queer friends being so validated and happy and themselves and i am so so happy for them but i feel like a ghost

[blackbeardsemophase]

.

[itsabouttimex2]

I have been going insane about the not beloved au.

The idea and sheer emotions of it just cling to me and haven’t left me for days and I blame you. Just the idea of [User] not only not being the beloved- but in a way being solely viewed that way- and in a sense being completely treated as such where it is very obvious- just- I love it.

The pure angst potential with the au is there and I -‘ screeching about it.

Y/N’s Not The Beloved?

(Monkiefam)

Exactly- Y/N is so heavily defined by being “not the beloved” that it kinda becomes their entire character.

Just like some people get jammed into slots they’re undeserving of by born traits or mere appearances, Y/N is out here getting pigeonholed into the “not our favorite” just because MK is the little monkey demon that their parents dreamed of having for so long.

And it doubly sucks ass, because Sun Wukong and Macaque are such good parents to MK that any criticism on your part will be questioned and “debunked” by well-meaning peers who probably just see you as “spoiled” or “jealous”.

Like, imagine this: your classmate, Y/N, is the adopted child of the fucking legendary hero, Monkey King. He’s married to; of all people, to the infamous Six-Eared Macaque. They have an adorable adopted son who is also a demon monkey.

And if what Y/N has to say about this whole family dynamic is “they spoil my brother too much/love him more than me/expect me to constantly look after him” and like…

From their perspective?

Bitch! You are privileged beyond compare and comprehension! You have two unimaginably powerful parents! They could crumble a civilization and raise a new from the smoldering ashes! They could impose themselves as gods and demand proper tribute! And instead they adopt a silly little mortal out of the goodness of their hearts, and you have the gall to “whine” about it not being enough?

Some of your classmates get beaten for bringing home bad grades? Some of them have dead parents? And a few were disowned for being queer! Others live in filth! Some have literally nothing! Why are you so damn “ungrateful”, Y/N?!

And then desperately trying to explain that yes, you are grateful for them and everything they’ve done, it’s not right for you to miss out on fundamental life experiences just because MK didn’t want you to go, or to nearly flunk a test because you couldn’t sleep on account of MK demanding your attention, or to lose friends that you were never allowed to hang out with because MK didn’t like them.

It’s especially bad in the situation that Y/N is particularly young, around say… under thirteen, or maybe semi-verbal, if they’re shy or anxious, and they haven’t learned how to properly communicate and express themselves in a conducive and effective manner, which leads to exchanges where what Y/N says is utterly ineffective at conveying what they mean, like:

“My parents love MK more than me.” (My parents unhealthily prioritize him even at a cost to myself.)

“Aww, sweetie! He’s just new to your house! You’ll get used to him!”

“I have to babysit MK so much that I don’t get to hang out with my friends.” (My budding social life is beginning to crumble under the weight of being a caretaker to my little brother.)

“You’re such a good older sibling! I bet your parents are really grateful to have a babysitter on hand!”

“MK wanted to go somewhere new yesterday, and he made our dads take me. I didn’t get to sleep.” (MK’s immediate happiness is becoming more important to both of our fathers than my physical health.)

“I bet you all had a lot of fun if you’re this tuckered out, huh? You’re lucky they took you!”

It gets to the point that Y/N, as they grow up, turns to the internet for validation and support in their life, probably to results that are equally split towards positive/negative.

“NTA- Clearly your fathers do not respect your health or feelings! Pack up and move out!”

“I can’t move out though? We live on a sacred mountain and I’ve never had a job because they make me babysit MK instead.”

“ESH cause y’all sound exhausting. I’d beat the fuck out of this “MK” TBH. What a brat.

“He’s nine though??? WTF dude?”

“Honestly all these NTAs and ESHs are so confusing clearly OP is a fucking ungrateful brat who’s gonna regret pushing their family away when they’re alone and have nobody. MASSIVE YTA kiddo.”

“I just want to stay home and sleep because I’m tired as hell from all the other family trips that I went on with my family? This is the first time I’m saying no?”

And slowly growing more and more ostracized and confused by everything in their nonconventional little family and how MK’s obsession with them is both fueled and enabled by Wukong and Macaque’s obsession with him, all slowly heading to a peak-

And when you snap, you are inevitably going to snap hard.

[rainbowsky]

Heyy rainbowsky. I hope you're doing good. There's something that's been on my mind for a while regarding candies, esp the one regarding their social media and the ones that seem "intentional". Do you think these are directed at each other or to turtles. As a younger turtle I used to think it was for each other and would also see them as a stretch cause I couldn't see the point of putting so much effort in these if they were already together. But as I have taken a break and come back, (older and wiser i hope) and have myself found my footing in my queerness while still being largely closeted, I feel like I'm swaying more towards the latter. That they do this for the turtles, or more so for themselves and their identities. It's makes me think of how i wear a discreet rainbow bracelet as part of my everyday wear, ie, a quiet assertion of who i am to who is willing to see. What do you think about this? Also what do you think turtles represent for them? Do you also think for them, we are an escape from an otherwise homophobic and closeted world? I'd really like to know your perspective.

Hi Chaoticmoonlight! I'm getting by! I hope you're well, too! 😊

Well, these things don't have to be a case of either/or. They can serve multiple purposes at the same time. I think that when it comes to 'declarations of love', or a certain type of social media PDA in their posts (kadian, candies, etc.), it's almost always aimed at each other and at turtles simultaneously, as well as anyone else who knows them for who they are (friends, family, etc.).

If GG and DD want to send a message to each other, they can just pick up the phone. Doing so publicly or on social media inevitably involves an element of self-expression, and likely at times becomes a grander gesture because of the public nature of the message.

If a partner holds your hand at home, it's sweet. If they do it in public there's an added element of 'making a statement', of openly declaring their affection for you. This gesture can become more powerful as the risk of doing so increases.

I agree that it's also a lot like wearing a rainbow flag pin or carrying a rainbow tote bag, or all the other ways queer people express ourselves and show our colors. It's a way of being as open as possible about an important relationship, and about our identities.

I've posted about this a few times in the past. A very common misconception among most people - especially straight people, but even some queer people - is that closeted people will want to do everything in their power to hide their sexual orientation and relationship status/partner. I think this is a very misguided understanding of the closet.

People have a fundamental need to be seen, accepted and validated for who they are. It's not just a 'nice-to-have', it's something people truly need for their survival and well-being. People who don't get those needs met will generally not thrive, and will often suffer in deep and damaging ways.

A lot of people think the closet is a place where people go to stay safe, and therefore it's a 'safe space'. This is so untrue. The closet might be the best option among several bad options, but it's by no means a safe, happy place. It's often a place of loneliness, alienation, grief and pain. People don't generally stay in the closet because they're happy there - they stay there because coming out is more dangerous/scary than staying closeted.

The vast majority of people, if they knew that it was safe to come out, - that they'd be accepted, protected and respected - would do so in a heartbeat. But even from within the closet, there is still that need to be seen and known for who we are. Those needs don't go away just because someone is closeted.

Closeted people will often go out of their way to share as much as they possibly can about who they really are, right up to the line where they'd be fully outed.

Coming out is also not just a 'one and done' thing. It is a gradual process, and one that has to be repeated over and over again as the circle of 'those who know' expands over time. I talked about that in more detail here. The best way I can express it is to say,

people will be as 'out' as they are able to be at any given time.

For some people, being out among friends and family and showing some small under-the-radar expressions of Pride will be their personal safe limit. For others it might just be wearing a rainbow bracelet, or wearing their lover's scarf. That safe limit will often expand or shift over time. Sometimes it will even shrink. There's definitely such a thing as 'being thrown back/deeper into the closet'.

They might not be able to make a post sharing photos from a hiking trip they took together, but they can share enough information to ensure turtles know they took that trip (a special moment for both of them, not just turtles). They might not be able to post boasts and praise about their partner's successes and milestones, but they can in subtle ways express their joy so that those who know, know, and so their partner witnesses their praise. They might not be able to openly put their names side by side on charitable works, but turtles will do it for them.

GG and DD are in the unique position of having millions of people who believe they're a couple. While I'm sure it sometimes makes their experience of being closeted that much more terrifying (considering their relationship is being talked about so openly), I suspect that in most cases it makes their experience of being closeted much more bearable.

It's not just the gesture itself that is sweet. As I said earlier, the public nature of it - the fact that others are witnessing it - adds to the power and significance of it. GG seeing DD wearing a #29 helmet for racing practice on GG's 29th birthday no doubt made GG smile, but it likely also made him doubly happy to see us freaking out over it, and knowing that someone out there knows DD was celebrating him.

As I have said in the past, I feel like turtles probably give them strength as they deal with their day-to-day experience of being closeted and apart most of the time. This is a sentiment LRLG has often expressed, too.

Wishing you strength and support on your journey as well, chaotic-moonlight. There's no right or wrong way to be queer, and no timeline we have to meet. Being closeted in no way invalidates who we are.

Related posts:

Closeted Relationships

Coming Out

What BXG Might Mean to GGDD

About Kadian

Sun Wenjing and coming out in less than ideal circumstances

[tevanbegins]

Some musings for Pride Month 🌈:

Know how straight people are not attracted to every single person of the opposite gender and can have meaningful platonic connections with them, without any romantic or sexual intent? Likewise...

• Bisexual people are not attracted to every single person they see or breathe around. Bisexual people can have close platonic bonds with people of any gender, without it having any secret romantic or sexual intent.

• Gays/Lesbians are not attracted to every single person of their own gender. Gays/Lesbians can have close platonic bonds with people of the same gender, without it having any secret romantic or sexual intent.

So when you take a healthy platonic friendship between a canon queer character and their straight best friend (who hasn't even secretly questioned themselves about their sexuality on screen in any episode for them to be considered a closet case) and celebrate it as an example for Pride Month, as opposed to actual canon queer characters and romances, it doesn't seem cool or respectful to the LGBTQ+ community.

I'm not at all saying we should only celebrate the queers who are out and proud. Closeted queers are also very valid in their queerness and their struggles are understandable. But when you have never seen someone even start to question their preferences, I don't get how fair it is to assume and officially declare that they are queer. Guessing or wondering about someone's sexuality is fine, but declaring it on someone's behalf is not. Just like it is wrong to make heteronormative assumptions about anyone, it is also wrong to force someone out of a closet they might not even be in just because you think you know who someone is.

Let people tell their own stories, whatever they are. That is what Pride is about. Finding your true self, in your own time, on your own terms. No one else's.

Again, people can believe whatever they want, because the things we see on television are ultimately fictional. But using some fanon TV ship as an example worthy of being celebrated for Pride — a real-life event that holds so much significance for a community that has been endlessly fighting for their rights — is frankly disrespectful.

Just wanted to say my piece, whether anyone agrees or not. Happy Pride Month once again, I wish everyone lots of love, joy, and peace! 🏳‍🌈❤

[oceanwithouthermoon]

i always considered saiki aro, but you make me really rethink with kubosai. .

THATS SO LOVELY, i know you didnt ask but.. im going to take this opportunity to talk a little about my stance on kubosai and saiki's sexuality.. i mean i have talked about it multiple times but still, lots of people dont see what i see in these things sooo im gonna keep talking about it lol..

(under the cut cuz i made this WAYYY longer than i meant to, sorryyyy..)

i still see saiki as aroace personally !! just not romance repulsed aroace, rather just on the aroace spectrum.. i think hes the type of person to use 'queer' and 'aroace' as umbrella terms for himself instead of caring about specific labels, but if i had to, i would say he fits best with demi based on my interpretation.. (i usually see him as with no preference, but based on the text its easy to see him as having a preference for men too..)

i do get why people would see him as romance repulsed and its a lovely hc, but i see saiki as mlm, at least in the way i interpreted it.. i mean, he almost straight up says he has a crush on satou in the manga.. its great if people interpret it as a 'squish,' but i personally dont see that,, he kinda blatantly threw them in a romance chart together, blushes every time he sees him, etc. HOWEVER aroace people who relate in some way and project their experiences onto saiki will ALWAYS be valid, so i dont care !! i literally do that lmfao im an aroace lesbian,,

anyway, saiki has a lot of silly tsundere moments that lots of people who dont really look at the show past surface level (and usually dont read the manga) see as him literally hating his friends, family, romance, etc when its very much shown how hes being a tsundere and he LOVES his friends, family, AND romance.. (canonically loves romance not as in he definitely experiences romantic attraction, but as in he just is weirdly into love stories and such but wont admit it lmao, i talk about that chapter where he gets obsessed with those strangers love story he saw with psychometry but its just so good lol..) so i think that misinterpretation is where a lot of the discourse in this fandom comes from, like people who think he GENUINELY hates teruhashi ? they r literally best friends he cares about her so much..

kubosai is a ship i started loving, not really from seeing their canon interactions, but from analyzing the characters in the manga and seeing who i think would actually fit together and have a good dynamic..

im very weak for characters who are ashamed of their dark past, afraid of their own strength and that they might hurt the people they love, scared to tell their loved ones their secrets, etc.. and kuboyasu and saiki fit the bill perfectly, so i looked at them and immediately thought BOOM what if they were in love..

their dynamic is fun, even though we didnt get a lot of canon interactions.. theyre so similar yet SO different at the same time..

they both have pretty tragic pasts and family lives, both VERY protective of their friends and family and would do anything for them, both have bad coping mechanisms (mostly refusing to acknowledge that anything is really wrong at all), etc.. and yet, theyre almost opposites in the way they actually carry themselves..

saiki appears apathetic at all times in front of others even though his internal monologue or how he expresses himself when hes alone can be really emotional.. kuboyasu is pretty happy all the time even though he has pretty thinly veiled anger about half the time..

kuboyasu is just a human boy who was taught to take up as much space as possible for his survival, defend himself with his fists, honesty and loyalty and trust are essential, etc, while saiki is an almost-god whose upbringing taught him to try his best to take up NO space at all for his survival, dont get involved unless its from afar, dont get close with anyone, dont trust anyone, etc..

saiki prefers to protect his people from in the shadows, going as far as to literally stalk them to make sure theyre okay without their knowledge, while kuboyasu is unafraid to show how much he cares and prefers to literally come out swinging to protect his people.. put them together and you get two silly guys who will literally protect the other with their life despite knowing damn well that theyre both fully capable of protecting themselves..

kuboyasu is also like.. one of the only people in the cast other than saiki who can be like.. a voice of reason sometimes.. he would be so good for saiki and would make damn sure he knows when hes being irrational or dramatic (because cmon, its saiki.. hes such a drama queen all the damn time..) and i just think he needs that in his life..

yasu would reign saiki in when it comes to his everyday dramatics, and in turn saiki would reign yasu in when it comes to his over the top romance standards (and probably his anger issues and overreactions too..) and yet at the same time they would take comfort in each others silliness.. saiki may be like "we cant just drop out and get married, thats not how it works" but isnt it so refreshing for him to have someone that cares about him so unconditionally ?? unlike his own family ?? itd scare him at first, but hed make yasu tone it down to a healthier extent and itd become soo comfortable..

[inevitably-ineffable-husbands]

A Thought on AziraCrow from an A-Spec Perspective

On the Eve of Good Omens S2, I just wanted to put my two cents in about AziraCrow, before we see the outcome of S2, because it’s pretty clear from trailers and promotions that their relationship is a plot point in the season.

I started writing a ridiculously long post a week ago spurned on from this screenshot from Pride Magazine, and my being upset by the current discourse on Twitter about AziraCrow “being canon or not”, but decided to shorten it to just this little thought, because I feel like me writing a meta-style commentary (which I do have saved if you want a more long-form thought about it after the series airs) isn’t necessary right now.

And this is all despite Gaiman AND the cast AND crew basically confirming that it is in multiple interviews, discourse from people in the community that are supposed to understand the queer experience, completely disavowing its legitimacy unless “X” happens (where “x” usually is explicit confirmation of sex happening) so therefore it’s not valid (which is really bizarre).

But I digress.

This is just a bit of a thought that I think allos are COMPLETELY skimming over:

Crowley’s and Aziraphale’s relationship, as it currently stands now prior to S2, is representative of the beginnings of a (currently) queerplatonic asexual relationship, and as an ace who so desperately just wants to see a relationship that I can see myself in on screen, and lo and behold came Good Omens. I’m part of a demographic which I and a few of my real-life friends fall into and were so happy to see on-screen when we saw GO. A demographic that is ridiculously under-represented in media that it often is mistaken as “bromance” or “just besties”.

As it stands now, in act 1, it is the part before the romantic gestures and before the “I love you”’s, and the part before the moving in and committing your life to someone else. Very gentle and romantic, slow burn kind of stuff that I, as an ace, relate to so much.  

This relationship looks like what my best friends went through for YEARS before finally tying the knot in their queerplatonic relationship because they couldn’t imagine their lives without each other anyway and they loved each other fiercely. This relationship looks like the kind of relationship that doesn’t turn me off as an asexual: to share the ridiculous amounts of love I have, and be loved in return, despite my complete disinterest in having sex. The “you go to fast for me Crowley” was SO FELT in my soul as someone who needs a lot of time to feel comfortable in any relationship I’m in (like, Aziraphale is SO me, it’s ridiculous really), and me trying to explain to people that I need a lot of time to feel comfortable in a relationship and that sex may never happen, and me knowing that I’ll probably be turned down because of it. Me not wanting to hurt someone in a world where sex is an expected endgame, so I just... tend to keep to myself. I’m just as happy with my books and my video games and doing things on my own, but I long for a life partner to love and to experience my life with. And while can’t speak for what other aces and aros may relate to about the relationship, I like to hope that they can also see themselves in AziraCrow as well. 

And please don’t get me wrong: I WANT them together-together, in any or all ways that it means: committing to each other 100%, love confessions, declarations of forever, marriage, a cottage in Sussex, and yes, even sex if that’s who they are canonically... I do want that, because I want it for myself. I want to see a relationship blossom where sex isn’t the primary outcome of it, but more of an afterthought as a way to consummate their love and to FEEL loved by each other.

I think the beauty of Crowley and Aziraphale’s relationship is that because they are essentially supernatural beings, we as people can put ourselves in their places, and use them as placeholders for us to project our relationships and experiences onto them and in turn feel seen. 

AziraCrow gives me hope that I will find my Other Person someday, because there is unconditional love in the world for people like me, especially as I get older and more set in my ways. I only hope I find my own Crowley to make me feel loved.

I know my opinion isn’t popular about AziraCrow, but honestly, their relationship, and the way it’s progressing means SO much to me, as an asexual, anyway. I hope it’s important to others too. <3

[saintqueer]

I'm sorry you got harassed again just from a simple post with a (imo pretty valid) opinion. If that person is the same that answered your post by reblogging and repplying on their blog with unnecessary hate (apparently queer but a solo louie) then it's the one I just blocked. I love to currate my experience in this fandom. Anyway I just wanted to say, I used to love your posts in this fandom! I lost track of your blog and thought you'd disappeard. I'm glad to see you're still on Tumblr and enjoying other fandoms. I'm well aware of how toxic this fandom can get (between the hets, the solos often queer themselves but hating on queer larries and more, to many groups to count tbh, louis' attitude on social media ect), especially when you dare to voice an opinion, which I'm mostly don't lol. I'm staying for the art, the fics, the great memes and ofc the music and the people. You're "y'all" made me think 'I Hope she still got good times and friends out if it. I made some great friends in the larries bunch myself. Anyway sorry for the rant, I lost track of what was my point here. Just was happy to see you pop on my dash through a mutual and wanted to say so I guess?? So once again thank you for the fun times I had reading your posts back in the days; have a great time out here, enjoying your favs fandoms, you do you! Sending love xx

so i was trying to avoid posting any anons regarding prev fandom discourse but i opened this one and read it through and it was just so amazing i had to respond, not just in tags 🥹🥹

of course, it's lovely to hear that you liked my posts on fandom back in the day etc but what really got me was when you wanted to make sure i still got good times and friends out of it, that nearly made me cry

because YEAH I FUCKING DID 🥺😩🥺🥹🥲

blue ( @wastelandbabyblue ) is literally one of the coolest people i've ever known while also being one of the kindest and funniest. id literally kill to meet her one day in person. i still keep up with brenda and several others i met in her og discord, some of which are the only remaining 1d fandom blogs i still follow here - they are so kind and funny and i still talk to them occasionally in a fandom discord i stayed in because i didn't want to lose touch with them.

and 🥹🥹🥹

i met 8 of who i would consider my closest friends in the whole world through fandom. through the most insane wild and unruly fandom discord drama, i literally located my found family: wedo, nino, iza, katja, olia, hanis, chloe, and su

we talk everyday still even though we live all over the world and we talk about nearly everything except fandom nowadays and they've helped me survive living day to day through some of the worst moments of my life. i don't know what i'd do if i didn't have them in my life

last night, i had a bit of a shame spiral thinking about all the time energy money i devoted to the 1d fandom. i felt embarrassed for being so loud about something that ended in so much disappointment. it wasn't fun and i know it was probably triggered by being involved in some discussions i hadn't been in so long

so when i opened this ask, anon, it reminded me so much that whatever was lost from that time, so much more was gained. the embarrassment of remembering dancing around like a fool with a rainbow flag for someone who couldn't even say something as simple as "look at all those colors" pales in comparison to the lifelong friendship i gained with these 8 beautiful women all across the globe

nothing will ever compare to the people i met and the way they feel closer to family than any of my blood ever felt

i'm glad that you found so much goodness as well and thank you for reminding me that it was all worth it for what i got

[oh-cramity-its-amity]

Hey, I’m bored so I’m gonna send you some owl house questions (unless you tell me to shut up and then I will)

Who’s your favorite character and why is it Hunter /j

How many times have you watched the series

Do you have any controversial opinions/ships? I will not hate on you I promise :D

Who’s your least favorite character(s)

Hopefully you don’t mind questions

hiiii omg sorry AUGH.

1.) not you joking that hunters my favorite character 💀���😭 /s. nowhere near my favorite character bestie 😭😭😭.

MY FAVORITE character in all seriousness is amity or raine!!! (luz is a close tie with amity bc i was a luz kin first.) but both of their characters mean SO much to me. especially raine's. i wont go ramble heavy but a lot of the reason i love the queer characters in the show are because of the fact that their "queerness" is not made into a character trait. people acknowledge raine as who they are and dont question or think of their identity as a negative. most of the media i found growing up centered around stories about queer people and their journey to realization OF being queer, and not where they already knew. thats one of the most definitive reasons i love toh so much too.

their identities and sexualities arent a "oh theyre the gay character" or "oh thats the nonbinary one" its an extension of themselves beneath other traits. because as a queer person myself theres WAY more that makes me myself than the fact that i identify the way i do. seeing amity develop feelings on screen for luz and then choose for herself on what she wanted. breaking away from her mother and destroying the rhetoric of what was assumed and assigned onto her.

people will talk shit about it and how "amity changed for luz" or blah blah blah. but thats not entirely true. when luz met amity, she saw her as who she was. not a name. not a rich girl. she threatened her stability. the comfort. luz encouraged her in ways that no one had before. about things amity found passion in. especially Azura!! amity changed because she realized she wanted more than what her parents forced onto her. luzs carefree and comfort being WARM and encouraging to do things that SHE ENJOYED. amity changed because she wanted to be more than her parents and be happy and luz just so happened to be the catalyst of that. and raine- as a nonbinary person makes me feel so validated.

2.) uhh surprisingly ive watched s1 like a good 13 or so times??? s2 though ive only watched through fully like once when i first watched it. i did watch individual eps from s2 so its not like i hadnt watched it ONLY once. s3 at least 4 times. s1 is definitely my favorite. even if like the real plot started coming in during s2. the nostalgia of 2020 and the fandom during that time is probably my reason. s1 lumitys energy and lumity as a ship was so simple and yet different.

3.) i think the fandom forgave camila too quickly for what she did to luz. it irks me how they then turned around and "noceda siblings" became a full thing. meanwhile people forget that darius wanted the best for hunter??? "he only had _" shut up. the show was shortened!!! WHO came to hunter during s3? NOT camila. it was darius and ebber! that man is more of a candidate for a parent for hunter than camila. vee and luz as sisters? YES valid. i love that. but hunter does NOT need to be included in literally everything regarding luz. people forget that king literally called himself luzs brother. "your family now" does NOT have to mean a familial tie. there are some friends who are so close like brother and sister BUT THEY ARENT. i cant stand noceda siblings. dadrius is just something that makes sense and i like the parallel potential of it. however speaking i will not get pissy if someone enjoys it, these characters are subjective. as long as you dont tear down others favorites and are respectful i have no issue with differing of beliefs. its just for me personally i wish it wasnt so... forgetful of king and luzs siblinghood.

4.) ive covered hunter before. i don't really like him all that much just due to how fandom treats him. his character in canon is cool though. i like dadrius. its the exception. grimwalker lore still feels very interesting though.

dont mind questions at all dw. sorry for the rambles but i like talking about toh so :D.

[girl4music]

I don't want to come off as weird, but as someone who doesn't like (but accepts that it's canon) Xena x Gabrielle (since I always saw it as sisterly thing (doesn't help that I thought Gab was like barely 18 and Xena in her 30s), I'm genuienly curious at what season they decided to go for Xena / Gab cuz I grew up with early seasons and there was just sisterly mentorship and constant switching male love interests and no gay teasing.. Imagine my flabbergasted state when I finally found some later seasons episodes and suddenly they're in Japan???, Xena has a daughter I think????, Gabrielle cut her hair???, I think they got crucified??? Xena died??? AGAIN, WHY ARE THEY IN JAPAN???? Gay teasing??? Gabrielle is no longer an innocent sunshine cinnamon but like... depressed and angy???? I was so confused what happened 😭😭💀 (I wish we got at least reunion special, this show (along with Charmed) was my everything as a kid)

It’s anyone’s guess when they suddenly became a thing since the nature of Xena and Gabrielle’s relationship is left down to interpretation. The creators/cast/crew leaned more towards a romantic interpretation which is why the later seasons are more blunt with the subtext between them and even some episodes (like ‘The Ring Trilogy’) are more maintext.

I think most of the shipper fandom unanimously agrees that they became something more than friendship in ‘The Quest’ when Gabrielle had admitted to being in love with Xena prompting Xena (who was possessing Autolycus’ body at the time) to lean in for a kiss. After that, they were in romantic/sexual territory as canon best friends that are in love if not a canon couple. And I think that’s where the creators themselves wanted to leave it at. Best friends and soulmates that are in love. It’s anyone’s guess whether they became actually officially committed.

There isn’t much evidence in the show to say that the nature of their relationship was sisterly or familial in a platonic way since the creators/cast/crew agreed with the shipper fandom and embraced the queerness of both characters but it’s just as valid an interpretation of their relationship too. What is understood is that they shared a ‘love’ connection that went beyond the romance due to the soulmates aspect and although I personally believe that they were physical lovers too and an official couple in the last two seasons of the show, I tend to talk about that more than anything.

As for the last two episodes that happened in Japan. Most fans prefer to think and believe that it didn’t happen. I am not one of them. I like ‘AFIN’. I don’t necessarily agree with the plot itself but I do like the beautiful aesthetics of it and I thought it was an appropriate endgame for both characters. That Xena chose to stay dead and sacrifice her happiness to be ultimately redeemed and Gabrielle took up the mantle of the Warrior Princess and continued Xena’s legacy. I don’t agree that Xena should have had to do that but I accepted that she chose to do that and respected her wishes like Gabrielle did as it wasn’t about ‘the greater good’. This was about respecting Xena’s bodily and mental autonomy. The way I look at it is that while it shouldn’t have been that way because it was unfair, Xena herself chose it to be that way because she didn’t forgive herself and believed it was justice that she had to stay dead to avenge the lives of all she damned. It’s not a nice message. But it is a realistic situation in their world - in Xena’s harsh Universe. I see it as her final test or challenge in seeking her ultimate redemption and I think - well, she had to die first in this lifetime anyway given all they set up with their next lifetimes as Arminestra and Shakti in India. So whether it be at that moment or years down the line when they were old and grey doesn’t really matter. Xena never believed she’d ever reach that point in life. She knew she’d die with a sword in her hand and that was her Way in this lifetime. The Way of the Warrior.

I am not saying I completely agree with the ending as it is. But I am saying I understand it and I understand Xena’s state of mind and therefore her final choices. If she didn’t get to have that agency in the narrative, I wouldn’t have accepted it at all. I respect her wishes and therefore I do not consider it to be bury your gays like most of the fandom do. I think there’s enough there in the narratives and themes to justify it as an a realistic conclusion to ‘Xena’ even if not a happy one.

As for Gabrielle being 18 and Xena being almost in her 30’s when they first met. … I mean I’ve written about this before with Waverly and Nicole in ‘Wynonna Earp’. The old/young dynamic and age differences isn’t really a problem so long as it’s written well and it’s made clear that the older one does not groom the younger one. That they wait to start anything romantic/sexual between them till the younger one is of age or if they already are of age - till the younger one chooses to start a romantic/sexual relationship.

The younger one has to be the driver of what’s going on. The older one has to stay distant and let them set the pace of the relationship between them if it is to evolve into romantic/sexual territory. It’s made clear particularly with Xena that she likes the young’uns most of all and it certainly does seem like she’s a bit of a groomer in her Evil Xena era but it shouldn’t come as a surprise that she is when she’s all about conquering. Gabrielle could have been another Anakin or M’Lila or Akemi. But given Xena waited until Gabrielle was of age and let Gabrielle set the pace of where their relationship went… it’s not as much of a problem as it’s made out to be. There’s been much worse handling of this old/young dynamic in other shows.

Xena is relatively okay as far as that whole thing goes to me because Xena always asks or waits for consent. I don’t know whether I can say this about her Evil Xena era but since it’s never shown on screen how she interacts with her young ‘companions’ I don’t think it’s something that we need to concern ourselves with. She was evil after all. I doubt that was just murder and there’s plenty a Conquerer fanfic to explore all that. The Good Xena however - the Xena we know and love - she’s a very respectful and kind lover if it bothers you about the age difference between Xena and Gabrielle in viewing them in a romantic/sexual relationship. If it really is an issue for you in viewing that way, stick to the more sister/familial viewing and interpretation.

As I said above several times. It is anyone’s guess when and where. It’s just most of the shipper fandom unanimously agrees that it happened in ‘The Quest’ and Gabrielle was a consenting adult by that point and had already lost her virginity. So it’s not a problem. If you really want to know how to handle this terribly, watch Buffy and Angel in ‘Buffy the Vampire Slayer’. Old/young romantic/sexual dynamics in TV art/entertainment - be it whether they’re same-sex or not - are generally handled better today than back then because there is much more awareness and education on what constitutes as ‘consent’ and what does not. As I mentioned above: ‘Wynonna Earp’ and the same-sex romantic/sexual old/young dynamic between Waverly and Nicole (WayHaught) is handled extremely well as they make it clear that Waverly is who drives it. Who initiates all physical intimacy or sexual contact and Nicole is always shown to ask or wait for consent.

Sorry this response was so long.

There was a lot to answer.

[transhawks]

Honestly that's why I think endeavor is a character so divided in the fandom.

Some readers see an abusive parent getting redemption and they hate it because of their trauma while other readers see an abusive parent promising to be better without expecting forgiveness or it being a honeymoon phase and they love it because that's what they expect of this type of people.

As Haleigh said "his arc either sits with you or not and both are valid"

I've said this time and time again - half of the argument is whether abusive parents should be redeemed or not. I keep pointing this out, but stories where abused kids get to walk away and be happier for that choice are rare in media. Most media tends to want reconciliation, or makes the person much unhappier for that choice. Family trumps all, in all cultures. Even stories like Encanto which had a Matriarch confronted with her abuse of her grandchild and child still ended in reconciliation. In real life, most of us don't get that ending, or it's an ending that hurts. I'm personally constantly having to navigate my parents' abuse of me and the understanding that on my father's part, it's because he was heavily abused and is from a culture that didn't embrace psychology. That's not even taking into consideration the fact I'm queer or that I'm closeted as trans from them and will be until the one family member I'm holding out for passes on. I know my story will end awfully with no reconciliation, and damn do I wish that there were stories of people like me being happy. BUT - that's not everyone. Not everyone finds happiness in cutting their family off. Some people want that reconciliation, want their parents to apologize, still need that healed. And from arguments with people on that side, I just think both of us feel invalidated by the existence of the other, even if I'll argue the reconciliation people have media power on their side more than we do. But that does make the conversation so hard. I think I tend to clash with my own group (the cut them off) the most because they just...can't stand to see this narrative for the Todoroki family. I've seen people say that Horikoshi doesn't understand abuse (wrong), is an abuse apologist (I disagree), or just wants to pretend it doesn't matter when the core of his story surrounds so much of this and I think ultimately what we all need to get is the people arguing about how much they hate the Enjidemption or how it's going so far is that they needed something else.

Need. Like I said, the people who favor this position rarely see themselves in stories, rarely see representation of broken family dynamics where a person gets to walk off free and happy. It's why League Found Family is so popular among these types - what's better than walking off into the sunset with your friends? Two years ago I would have agreed. But that's not the story Horikoshi wants to tell and he's not wrong for it. Because ultimately the "reconciliation can happen" camp is as valid in existence as we are, the main difference is that you see the "cut them off camp" less. But it's hard to make that argument. People are too hurt by the idea that there's someone who can have that reconciliation. Meanwhile the Reconciliation camp feel like our side makes them feel guilty for wanting that connection in the first place.

I think it's just too fraught a conversation for most of us to have, especially if the people having it are not in therapy, are not medicated, or just not really coming to terms with what's happened to them. Heck, some of the people arguing over this are still being abused. It's just not a conversation we're able to have civilly, because abuse isn't civil.

[ijichi-nijika]

when i first came out to my college friend group it was so weird seeing a group of pretty much exclusively cis people with a few non het people have to deal with “oh suddenly there is a trans person in our group, how do we deal with it” when i switched pronouns everyone respected it and only people who didn’t know me at all called me he, until they were corrected and started using she instead. when i finally said “hey, i don’t actually wanna just still go by that name, could you start calling me lily? (and later my other names)” and they instantly stopped using my deadname and called me what i wanted. when i said to them that i was plural there were questions but they all tried to be accomodating to my learning about ourselves (even if i’m more likely just disassociative and not actually plural, y’all are valid as hell). when i said i wanted to use pup pronouns it did get a little weird but only until they realized it really wasn’t that strange and a few used them interchangeably while a few just stuck to she/her which honestly was fine.

the other weird thing i noticed was how slowly, people started being more expressive around me? i don’t want to ever claim to be “the reason” for things but suddenly stuff changed. me being told “oh instead of one trans person, there’s two now. btw” to another “hey iris, i think i’m bi-gender do you have any advice?” and then another goes “oh hey i’m agender i’ve realized, but any pronouns work!” to even more “i am extremely complicated and would prefer to keep this between us for now, but i trust you so here’s the info”. and since not even just gender stuff. “hey iris i’m bi btw” “yeah i realized i’m bi” “oh hey, had a breakdown and wanted to tell you all that i’m bi!” “still straight but sometimes boys can be hot idk what that means about me tho and idc really”

queer people being open makes others start feeling safe to be themselves and that one thing keeps me happy in knowing that coming out has ALWAYS been the right choice

[velvetvexations]

I think Velvet Nation has their heads screwed on tight and would understand that "I'm prone to attention/praise-seeking behavior" is not mutually exclusive with having some kinna "genuine" moral framework. Like, you could say that literally everyone only ever does something good because it makes them feel good. Ever act of charity either results in dopamine or prevents guilt at not having done so. Everything a human being does is selfish when you reduce the action to it's most basic, chemical level.

But with narcs it's different, there's this assumption that if a narc does something good they're standing there actively thinking "haha, you fool, I don't care about suicidal queer youth at all! I only donated five hundred thousand dollars to The Trevor Project so you would give me praise!". But consider that maybe, like, someone with NPD wants to be the best person they possibly can be? That they might not be satisfied with themselves if they didn't feel they were moral enough?

Some people go hard on being outsiders with rough edges. And you know, why the fuck shouldn't they? Even trying to do good gets them accused of being predators specifically for trying to do good. No shit some of them decide "then let me be evil" and embrace the fact that they're perceived as self-centered assholes. Yet, even then - they're talking openly about it all the time, it's a core part of their identity, that makes it difficult to fly under people's radar to secretly break them into being a worshipful slave.

But guess what? Having been raised by my mother, I can understand why someone with undiagnosed NPD can be a really fucking bad time for someone close to them. I'm so sympathetic to anyone who's actually suffered abuse from someone with NPD, because it sucks, it's bad.

It's like how I feel whenever TERFs complain about trans-identified males appropriating the pain of menstruation - I'm so willing to give any and all people who get periods that that fucking sucks and regardless of gender identity or anything else I understand and appreciate the fortune of not having to go through that. A transfem friend once told someone she was jealous of them menstruating and I was thinking like "I get how dysphoria is complicated and that can be something you have a valid desire for but holy fuck please please please never say that to a cis woman again", not because she was "appropriating" anything, but because shit like that is a miserable time for the people that go through it and it's desirable to respect that. So it sucks when I see TERFs pushing that line as though my respect in that regard isn't worth anything.

(to be clear, people who think I'm a crypto-TERF, I mean respect towards menstruating people generally, I have no respect for TERFs in any regard and am happy for them specifically to just cope and seethe about it)

The point of this tangent is that I'M REASONABLE. I CAN WORK WITH YOU. If anyone comes to me in good faith I'm not ever going to dismiss that sort of thing. Hell, I said the other day that if someone thought "Mormon" was a slur above simply being disrespectful I'd tell them to touch grass, but if that hypothetical person actually was like "yeah I get why you feel this way but I have these reasons it hurts me and I wish people wouldn't use it so it feels like a slur to me and it sucks that my situation is automatically so irrational to everyone else" I'd be like...I'm probably going to keep saying it because everyone else said it wasn't a problem and it's likely to come up in the future, but I'm really sorry, if you're a follower of mine maybe there's a tag I can use?

My own immense charity and grace in writing that is literally bringing a tear to my eye, which is what being a narc is like. Or maybe that's just because I'm also autistic and get moved by things like that very easily without making a distinction as to if it's coming from me or someone else. But either way, I guess, there are people who want me to just not fucking bother, lest I cloak my narcissism from my helpless prey.

[butts-bouncing-on-the-beltway]

You know, the parentification thing...

So my mom would say how there was only one time when I threw a tantrum, and it was cause their was this stuffed dinosaur I wanted and was tired, so they ended up leaving but coming back another day

Well, couple years back somehow this comes up with my dad and he kind of pauses and is like...

"What happened is that there was a stuffie you really wanted, and one your mom really wanted, and we didn't have enough to get both. So you were around 3, and you were sitting there trying to find a way to both get what you wanted and make your mom happy, and it upset you so much you started crying about it"

So uh... yeah... I don't know... can't really talk much on this stuff cause like... this is all stuff I normally repress to get by on. Just uh... yeah. Had to pay my mom's rent one time when I was like 10... eh, don't really like to think about it but... there was a fair bit of stuff with her and having to play parent

Wouldn't normally bother mentioning it, but since people are talking about demographics a lot on that post, I'm an only child and a boy so... there you go

Hope you have a nice day though. Just uh... thought I'd weigh in. Probably could offer other examples but... even just remember this has me not doing so keen so rather not search for any other memories

Yeah, parentification and emotional incest are....a hell of an experience.

My wife is trans and like. I get that for a lot of people when you're trans, you were "always" your gender just "misperceived" as your AGAB, but wifey doesn't see it that way. She lived nearly 30 years as a queer black man with 2 sons, and has only recently found herself in the position of associating with herself as a black woman with two brothers. Funnily enough, both changes happened in tandem, in part because she felt that she was officially done raising her boys (the youngest had his 18th birthday shortly before my wife came out and had moved out on his own before she told him) and so her life was no longer about being a mother to them, and she felt more able to be a woman without being a mother, just as she finds it easier to be a father without being a man.

Between my personal life and my professional life, I have seen a lot of parentification in a lot of demographics (women, men, youngest siblings, oldest siblings, kids in 2 parent families, kids in single parent families, it literally does not matter). The emotional/cognitive processes that result in parentification aren't concerned with who "should" have which responsobilities, they are simply incapable of holding themselves accountable to it rather than foisting it off on the kids.

My mother and my wife's mother both equally depend on us for their self-validation as good and loving mothers who cared for us despite their utter failures on all counts with each of us, and they both put the same responsibilities on us despite our different AGABs because it was never about us. It was about THEM. It was about their need for an adult companion who could support and validate them and the utter emotional imaturity that drove them to seek it with their children instead. It was the way that being a child made us captive audiences to our mothers' self destructive tendencies. It was the way our money paid the bills without ever staying in our hands long enough to better our own lives. It was the way they looped us into every interpersonal conflict they created with their misbehavior. It was the way they treated us like friends when they needed validation but like property when we dared to have needs that weren't compatible with theirs. It's the way they comodified and fetishized aspects of our sense of self as something that they could use to control, humiliate, and erase the reality of us from their awareness. It's the way they raised us to know deep in our souls that there is no distinction between them and us to the point that we routinely sacrifice our boundaries again and again in their name without it even occurring to us that we COULD have boundaries there. What they want was always what we wanted, and after a while it's hard to tell how much of that is real.

That's the parentification. And hey, we can even talk about how eldest daughters in particular can struggle to identify what they went through as parentification because of how normalized it is for them to be treated this way! But we do that by acknowledging that what they went through WAS IN FACT parentification rather than by insisting it was some special different thing. That actually reinforces the same cultural issues that make it hard to call out eldest daughters being abused through parentification.

[cretaceousundead]

Honestly what even is the point in pride month anymore when what used to be the LBTQA+ community is now literally just the oppression club for bullies?

Trans people aren’t welcome. Transphobia is so fucking accepted now, not only from conservatives but even liberals.

Bi people are on ‘thin ice’, as the saying goes. We’re seen as Queer Lite. Only valid if we’re in a same sex relationship, but then we get told we’re basically gay anyway. When someone comes out as bi, let’s say a celeb comes out as bi, their fans celebrate, but it never comes across like they’re genuinely happy that this person felt comfortable coming out, it’s more like they’re just happy the person isn’t straight, cause we all know the only people gays hate more than bi and trans people are cishet people. Gays celebrating a celeb they like coming out as bi has always felt more like a “oh thank GOD they’re not straight” rather than a “I’m so happy for them”.

Recently I’ve seen LGBwithouttheT trending on Twitter allot, but let’s be real if they succeeded in booting the trans people out they’d start trending LGwithouttheB next.

Growing up I saw the community, back then simply called the LGBT community, as simply a community of people who were anything other than straight or cis.

If lesbians and gays ever succeeded in claiming this so called ‘community’ for themselves they’d start fighting amongst each other as well over whose more oppressed. Obviously the general consensus would be that lesbians are more oppressed than gay guys because “US POOR OPPRESSED WOMYN!!”. So then the fighting would begin between lesbians and other lesbians.

White lesbians vs lesbians of colour. The lesbian of colour would be the winner of ‘most oppressed’.

Then it would be lesbian of colour with mental illnesses or trauma ve lesbians of colour without mental illnesses or trauma.

It will never fucking end.

When I was younger, before I even realised I was part of the community myself, I thought it was just a community for people who weren’t cis or straight at a time when those people often didn’t fit in with people who were cis and straight.

But now it’s the oppression club. It’s not about acceptance. It’s not about equality. It’s not about having a community to feel at home. It’s a “you must be THIS oppressed to ride this ride”.

The LGBTQA+ community barely exists anymore. There’s no sense of community anymore. There’s no kindness. There’s just hatred and bullying so honestly what’s the point in pride month? Why is it still a thing, what ‘pride’ are you people talking about? Because I don’t see anyone with anything to be prideful about anymore. Trans people are referring to as ‘things’ and ‘freaks of nature’. Bi people are either gays with internalised homophobia or straight people trying to be special. Gay guys are oppressing lesbians just by being male. White lesbians are oppressing lesbians of colour.

The whole point of the community was that at a time when we actually were hated or the very least not understood by cishet people, we needed a community of our own to feel at home in and safe.

But cishet people are not out biggest enemies anymore, most decent cishet people support us. I, as a bisexual woman, feel more comfortable around my cishet male friend than I did at the most recent pride parade I went to because I spent half the time there wondering how many of the people waving around rainbow flags spend their free time on the internet being transphobic and/or biphobic, whereas I know that my friend doesn’t care about my sexuality and loves me for me and supports me for who I am however I am.

Speaking of cishet people, I’m sick to death of being told by my own so called community that I simultaneously don’t belong here AND that y’all are the only people I can trust because cisheta are my enemy. When I reality the majority of the bigotry I’ve ever experienced has come from gay people not straight people.

It reminds me of radical feminists telling women that men are the ones we should be fearing while they simultaneously abuse us and bully us when we want female abusers acknowledged or when we even so much as say that we don’t hate men.

You use bigotry by cishets as a way to shield yourself from critisism for your own bigotry.

Where’s the fucking pride? Theres no pride. There’s just hatred. There’s no sense of community or belonging. The community doesn’t fucking exist anymore. So what’s the point in pride month. According to the self appointed leaders of the community, A.K.A the people who see themselves as the most oppressed, pretty much nobody actually belongs in the community. And if we don’t belong here then what’s the point in pride month? Who does pride month exist for?

[uncle-fruity]

They'll also say "this group isn't attacked for their identity so they can't be queer" in the same breath as advocating for people to be normal about [whatever queer identity they have]. They don't like being invalidated and bullied and attacked for their identity, and want other people to treat them well, yet they deem the suffering a key part of belonging to the queer community, which is...a bad precedent. (Which they immediately undercut anyway by bullying & invalidating people they decide haven't suffered "enough" to qualify, as OP was describing.)

If the prerequisite to being queer is that you have to suffer at the hands of oppression & bigotry, then that gives people incentive to stop fighting against being oppressed & hurt by bigots as hard. I mean, obviously queer people are still fighting for rights and respect in a big way, but the younger queer folks/paranoid queer folks/insecure queer folks/etc. who think they need to prove themselves to be part of the queer community will find some twisted validity in oppression & bigotry waged against them, which isn't healthy. If that's a key part of being queer, then what are we when everyone is normal about [queer identity] and we've got rights? Are we no longer queer? No longer a community? Where's the logical endpoint to this kind of thinking?

If ANYONE tells you that you aren't queer enough unless you suffer, that person is not your friend nor anyone you need to respect the opinion of. That's some fire and brimstone religious mindset shit, and that's what a huge portion of us are trying to escape. Me? I want all queer folks to be happy with who they are, to live full lives, to love whoever they love however they want to define that love. And I want everyone to know that no one worth hanging out with will grill you for how queer you are or make you prove it. Not only is that a Very Online thing, it's also just like... not anyone's business. And most people who are actually normal about queer folks don't really care beyond potential curiosity about what flavor of queer you're representing. And even then, you ALWAYS have a right to keep it to yourself. No one is owed a detailed explanation of your identities. You don't have to tell anyone any of the specific identities you are unless you want to. Focus on staying alive and living your truth. Focus on finding people who love and support YOU however you identify.

There will always be gatekeepers. I recommend you ignore them. Block them on Tumblr, don't follow their blogs, etc. And if one gets through to you to harass you? Don't respond, delete that anon hate, block them, and continue having a great day knowing they will not be acknowledged. It will become obvious that they aren't the arbiters of queerness, and that you can call yourself whatever you want, actually. Because there will ALSO always be people like me, who are radically accepting and delight in the wide variety of queer identities. All the folks who get left out of the alphabet mashup, who are often represented with a "+" or whose letters are frequently discarded or misrepresented -- y'all are part of my queer family. And I don't want to see you suffer; I want to see you thrive. I want to see you happy and safe.

also, i really find it interesting how people can genuinely go about saying "Well this group isn't attacked for their identity so they can't be queer " while then turning around and. attacking said group. for their identity. and exemplifying classic __-phobic tropes. It's really dumb. You are being the thing that you claim does not exist

[touchstoneaf]

So okay. I feel the need to speak on this again. I think it's getting out of hand. Yes, I am breaking my own rules enough to watch ongoing developments with interest. Far more so than when I strictly avoided this sort of thing in another fandom (in that case because I knew that the likelihood was much higher that the two guys in question were just goofing around having a good time and leavening the tension inherent in their roles, and by it giving us subtext fiends another layer to find)... But, that was also 20-odd years ago, when that sort of thing couldn't safely exist on the surface.

This is different for me because, yes I am following developments with interest, because in this case it does seem more plausible; partially because the tidbits we're getting from certain socials make it seem like more than just a game (and it would be a kind of a cruel game at this point, played at all of our expense, and I don't think the people involved would actually act that way with us. They're too kind in general, allies if not more). So, yes, there seems to be rhyme & reason behind the madness in this case; real hinting instead of "just goofing around". And the world is different now, and that kind of "goofing around" would not be fanservice anymore, would not be taken so well.

On the other hand, I would be perfectly happy whichever way it went. If we just get this generation's version of Ian McKellen and Patrick Stewart out of this? Well, that would be lovely. If they continue to watch each other's kids, and go to each other's opening nights, and give each other support and love as friends for the rest of their lives... that would be fantastic! The world needs more loving, supportive, kind, gentle male friendships. They don't all have to be sexual. Either way, they are fighting toxic masculinity everyday just by existing. They are part of the fight even if it stays platonic (or even queerplatonic. Let us not forget; that is also valid). Should everybody continue to have family dinners together, and to take holiday trips together, and act like a big extended family... then, how wonderful! What a joy!

If, of course, it's something more, then I will be happy to see it, obvs, because obviously we need an older generation of queers in this world to look to, because we've lost so many, and it would be rather lovely to have that as well, and to have people realize that it's not always just kids out of high school or whatever finding their queer joy (in whatever form). That you can find your happiness later in life in that way--just as so many straight people have whilst working together--yes, that would be beyond great.

But, I'm not really hung up on it either way. Because either way, we have a beautiful friendship in the world that gives us all joy to witness it. (And honestly, because I'm Poly, probably, I find that likelihood to be much more positive than the whole standard Mono rigmarole of "breaking up with somebody to be with someone else". The latter's a tired schtick, and I'm over it. I want to see high-profile people doing this the right way (or at least what is, in my mind, the right way), and everybody being honored in the situation. Loves Do Not Have To Cancel Each Other Out; especially when there are families involved! People can work together in unique configurations, and that's all right if it works for them, dammit! And if anybody tells me DT is not still madly in love with his wife, I think they are fooling themselves. You can't fake what they have when the cameras are on them. And I'm here for all of it.)

That being the case, what I don't understand is when people get all weird and toxic about this thing, & act like they have some kind of stake in it being one way or the other; to the point where they think they can talk badly about other people's partners and families. I Just Don't Understand how they feel like they have the right to treat partners / RL people as obstacles to something that may or may not even be happening. First of all, you're putting negative energy out in the world, and there's enough of that as it is. Secondly, why are y'all taking such a big stake in this? It's not your lives to stake!

MOST IMPORTANTLY, thirdly, if that IS what's happening here, this is a very complicated and difficult situation for them all, and dammit, we should SUPPORT them while they work thru it, the way they support us... Which means supporting however they decide to solve it, not cheering for destruction of any particular person involved.

TL:DR, ultimately it's not our business. We're lucky we have a window, and that we get to smile from the sidelines and cross our fingers. One way or the other, ppl need to chill the fuck out.