#and i don't think either of them ever seriously doubts whether or not it's possible for that to keep being true

[cpmhew]

“I think [Eliot’s relationship with] Margo will sustain no matter what happens. Margo and Eliot have proof of concept without needing to have a conversation about it.”

Hale Appleman (x)

[sunshine-jesse]

Ashley Literally Did Nothing Wrong, Fuck You, Fight Me

Alt title: Ashley Graves: The most convenient scapegoat in the world

I'm going to espouse a take here that will no doubt be controversial, as you can tell by the title. This is a take I've created from my hollistic understanding of the events of the game, and isn't dependent on any one single point I make in this essay. Because of that, I want you to read it with an open mind; if you hyperfocus on one or two smaller details I might've gotten wrong or are fallaciously interpretated, and either use that to discount the whole essay or go into the comment section and immediately try to debunk my interpretation of that event, that'll make it obvious to me that you're not trying to seriously engage with the core of what I'm trying to say. Because unless quite literally everything I've said here is wrong, I feel confident in saying this:

Ashley Graves did nothing wrong.

Moreover, I think Ashley is on the level of people like Rossiu, Shinji Ikari, and Skylar White as far as people who are mistreated by their fandoms goes.

At first this was going to be an essay about how I don't think the demons are evil, using textual and thematic evidence to show that they're just part of a system that deals mostly fairly with humans and doesn't have any nefarious plans, or at least nefarious plans that stand to fuck anyone over. But then I realized that, goodness gracious, that is boring as shit to write! But I looked at what I had written already and realized that I could write something else with it: something better. I could sum up a lot of the points made in my prior essays and elaborate upon them in much more detail, showing why I think certain themes are obviously present within this game. And here, I intend on doing that.

I've spoken a lot before about how Ashley is a scapegoat for all of Andrew's worst habits; and to a lesser extent, her mother's. The game makes it seemingly obvious that she's the bad one, and generally just a Very Not Good person. It shows her and her brother committing many different acts that are, under most moral systems, wrong, and implicitly implies that she's the reason that Andrew ever did those things. It implies that she's corrupting him, that he could be better and refuses- or is unable to- due to her poking and prodding. But… is that the truth? Is that how their relationship actually works, in practice? I don't believe so. I think I've made it obvious by now that I believe the exact opposite!

I'm going to start off by tackling the morality behind their actions, especially relative to the world they're in. Specifically, I'm going to tackle how the game presents the morality of their actions from a thematic point of view, and any statements it may or may not make.

First of all, TCOAL plays with a lot of different taboos- demon summoning, cannibalism, incest, murder- but the game goes through great lengths to muddy the moral weight of the siblings' actions. Every single action they commit is portrayed in the most neutral possible light- killings were done in self defense (with one notable exception), or done to people who greatly wronged them, cannibalism was a necessity to survive (also with one notable exception), incest is shown to come from a marked improvement in their relationship- leading me to believe that this game is taking a hard morally nihilistic stance. Else, they'd be shown to suffer for their actions, when in reality, the literal exact opposite is happening; they are being rewarded for it. This isn't necessarily glorifying the actions, but instead showing that even the worst of actions can potentially be excused, but whether or not you do is up to the reader. Hence, nihilism, or at the very least, skepticism (as noted by Lisafication). There's an existentialist reading of this too, but I think much of that is contingent on the events of chapter 3 so I won't get into that here.

It contrasts this mostly nihilistic perspective on interpersonal taboos with the deep societal ills that drive people to commit such actions. Evil exists at every level of analysis here, but curiously, the only thing that are shown to do direct harm to others without having a justification of some kind- be it self-defense or retaliation- are those societal ills. There is no (morally) good reason to quarantine people, starve them, and harvest their organs. There's no good reason to burn all evidence and then put a hit on the ones who did escape. There's no good reason to extort sexual favors from someone in exchange for food. These are deep structural problems that force people to either retaliate/lash out or enable people's most exploitative or abusive habits lest they just let themselves die.

And thus, the obvious evils become much less obvious. The game makes a point of subverting the obvious or the well-known when it comes to morals, and I think it does so when it comes to everything else, too. Outside of those societal ills (so far, ch3 might have something else to say), every situation where someone could obviously be shown as the bad person in a situation is immensely more complex than it first appears. So much so that I'd argue that displaying said complexity and subverting simplicity to force/encourage people to analyze things deeper is one of the central themes of the game.

So why, exactly, does he blame so much on her? It's because Ashley is the world's most convenient scapegoat, and the game is well-aware of this and displays it in ways both obvious and not.

First off: the title screen has Ashley wielding the cleaver, establishing that she’s the violent one. It's covered in blood, too, implying that she's the one more driven to kill. The reality of this is the opposite; Andrew is the one with less hesitation to inflict violence on others, the cleaver is his weapon, and most of the kills in the story are done by him (and fully justified). Ashley might push him to do these violent acts, but… does she?

Her reaction to the death of the first warden is one of utter shock.

And her expression afterwards?

This is not the look of someone who enjoyed the fact that someone killed for her sake. This is not the look of someone who finds joy to be had in violence. It's not even the look of someone who is apathetic towards violence. It almost seems to express shame or guilt, but at the very least, she's timid over it. At the very least, it's an "oh shit, he actually had to do that for my sake" face. Not a "haha, I am making him worse!" face.

Not to mention, not only does Andrew kill the first Warden without a care in the world, he proactively kills the 302 lady to eliminate all witnesses, and because he believes Ashley would want him to. But Ashley actually grills him for it; she didn't want the 302 lady to die, although she hardly had good-person-reasons for it. But that's not my point. The point is that she is not the violent one between the two of them.

The door doesn't open in response to violence, remember?

The game intentionally misleads us.

And what happens when Ashley tries to make him take responsibility for all this violence? To point out that she didn't force him to do anything and that he chose to do all of it, including lock Nina in the box? She lashes out, hits him a few times… and then he goes to strangle her, and doesn't let go until she acknowledges that he has no reason for her to be around. He literally doesn't cease his threat to her life until she acknowledges she's useless to him.

I acknowledge that this isn't the most charitable framing for Andrew, and maybe too charitable for Ashley. After all, she wasn't indignant. She was mocking him. She found it hilarious. But I have reasons for that charitability that I'll go over towards the end. But even with that charitability in mind, I don't think my reading is too off base. Defaulting to laughter or mocking in stressful situations is just what Ashley does. She's not indignant about it; she just finds it hilarious that people keep pretending to be better than her, when they're not.

Andrew killed the 302 lady and used Ashley as a scapegoat to justify it; this is indisputable, stated in the text during the dream. This alone validates Ashley's point of view. There is no interpretation of this event that doesn't paint Andrew as every bit as unscrupulous as Ashley, and thinking she corrupted him into this- when it was both one of the first actions he did on his own in the story and something he explicitly uses Ashley as a scapegoat for- is just ridiculous. It's frankly unreasonable. She has every right to be sick of being used as a scapegoat. And at the very least, whether or not you accept the idea that Andrew only let Ashley go once she acknowledged that she's useless to him, he's still so taken aback by his misinterpretation of Ashley's desires that HE goes to strangle HER.

This is NOT Andrew triumphantly standing up to his abuser. This is both of their masks slipping; Andrew revealing how violent and insistent on keeping up his internal narrative that he is, and Ashley revealing that she's getting tired of being blamed for everything.

And then, when he finally lets her go… she hugs him, and acknowledges that she's happy that Nina is gone, which makes little sense at the face of it. Why would that be her first response to being let go, when it was ostensibly what made Andrew so upset to begin with?

I think, to her, it's a conciliatory gesture. As chapter 2 showed us, she's more than willing to take responsibility for violence to relieve Andrew of stress over it, as evidenced by her finishing off their parents. This is an earlier instance of that; by acknowledging she was happy that Nina was dead, she took responsibility for it. She willingly framed herself as a bad person here, so Andrew wouldn't have to be.

She let herself be the scapegoat, because it's all she ever knew. She put the mask back on.

This alone is enough to challenge the idea that Ashley 'corrupts' Andrew in any meaningful way. How, exactly, can you define it as corrupt when society itself is twisted enough to force these actions to survive? In a more sane world, a lot of their actions would've been bad, sure, but they're also actions that the siblings probably wouldn't have done in a more sane world. Ashley's actions aren't making Andrew worse, they're helping to ensure their survival. You could say that this is still corruptive in its own way, but at that point it seems like your reasoning is motivated by having already had that narrative rather than making a good-faith reading of their dynamic.

At no point did she actually make him worse; he was already like that and just used her as an excuse.

Next up is the Nina situation. This one is obviously cut and dry- Ashley manipulates Andrew into killing Nina because she wants no competition between the two of them. It's not Andrew's fault and Ashley was an evil abuser from the jump. Obvious, right?

No. It's really not.

It's pretty strongly implied that Ashley was mistreated by people her whole life. The Lemon Cupcake scene shows this in more detail, about how people always neglect or ignore her birthdays, but she also says that nobody likes her because she's weird and loud in the Nina flashback too. But unless something big happened in between the two flashbacks, none of this behavior indicates particularly maladaptive or even strange tendencies on Ashley's part. She's a needy, bratty child, and the closest thing to a friend she has- Nina- wants to take away the one thing from her that's a source of comfort and emotional validation.

It's not entirely rational, sure! But it also -makes perfect sense-. NOBODY treated her well throughout her entire life; it's strongly implied that Nina never did either, given Nina's reaction to Ashley being there and the lower left-hand painting past the Questionable door showing her being distant from the two of them. We can also see a star bouncing off of her head, and stars represent closeness in this game, so it shows there was an attempt made somewhere along the line, it's just not clear as to who made the attempt.

At the very least, Nina's reaction of disappointment fed into Ashley's preconceived notions of how people treat her, and how she deserves to be treated. Although, from what has been directly stated, rather than implied, Nina was nothing more than an innocent victim in this scenario; I don't mean to take that away from her.

"But she didn't care when Nina died?"

So? If Nina treated her like trash for most of her life, why should she care? She didn't expect Nina to die. It was just an acceptable consequence. You can say "That's not how normal kids act!" all you want, but there's a level of spite and apathy that comes with intense bullying and emotional neglect that I don't think you really understand unless you've been there to the extent someone like Ashley has implied to be.

Andrew, meanwhile, was the one who told Ashley that they had to lock Nina in the box to keep them in there. He's the one who looked for and found the stick to keep them locked in. You could say he was coerced by an abusive person into hurting someone, sure, but you'd be wrong. Cataclysmically wrong, even. Like, if you actually think that a seven year old girl (nobody wears overalls past the age of seven) can have anything approximating an abusive dynamic with her as the perpetrator with someone both older and stronger than her, you frankly have some issues with women you need to work out. That's simply not how abuse dynamics work at that age.

Andrew wasn't entirely responsible for it either, mind- he was just a kid who should never have been saddled with this kind of responsibility. But that's not my point; the point is that it enables other people, Andrew included, to use her as a scapegoat to avoid his own responsibility. All this scene does is retroactively justify any preconceptions you might've had about them from seeing their adult selves first. But the moment you start digging, it becomes much less obvious who's really culpable here. Andrew was, as evidenced by the blood oath scene, fully aware that he held the advantage over her in strength, and managed to give up nothing when making the oath while he made Ashley swear to silence. He was fully aware that he could've chosen to do better, but he refused, and instead opted to reinforce Ashley's insecurities for the sake of exerting control over her.

I've said before that the 302 lady was murdered without any input from Ashley, but this is also relevant on a meta-level because it's done without any input from the player, either. Both of the murders in chapter 1 were like that, whereas all that we, the player can choose to do in that chapter is either solve puzzles, or hilariously, die. The only person with control here is Andrew, the character, and this is reinforced by the fact that we have no control over him for much of the Nina flashback, too. He locks her in the box regardless of our input, even though Ashley spends a lot of time trying to convince him. The main difference between the Nina flashback and the scenes in the apartment is that Ashley had absolutely no idea that any of that was going to happen in the present, whereas it's something she wanted with Nina- which isn't that big of a difference when discussing how much agency she really has.

As much as the game frames Ashley as a manipulator- and much of the fanbase uncritically accepts- she is given shockingly little in-game control over many of the actions committed. Even in the case of the Hitman- as a good friend of mine pointed out- the only choice the player is given is whether or not to check the closet and be killed; an impulsive decision leading to a swift and unceremonious end. In the end, Andrew is the one given the choice to kill the hitman, and we can consciously choose whether or not his reaction is panicked or measured. No such choice is given to Ashley, as most of her reactions are impulsive and spontaneous rather than planned. This is not the makings of a standard "manipulative evil bitch" trope. She's pretty consistently portrayed as someone with poor impulse and emotional control who loudly and aggressively states her intent in every single scenario she's in.

And you can still call what she says and does manipulative despite that, sure, but at what point are you just pathologizing relatively normal (if extreme and highly emotional) social interactions for the sake of fitting into a narrative you already held?

We see Ashley's status as a scapegoat for people to use to pretend to be normal reach its most blatant with the parents. This time it's pretty cut and dry to anyone that doesn't already have it in their mind that Ashley is evil and unforgivable. Mrs. Graves explicitly brings up the possibility of a normal life without Ashley to Andrew in the basement, and claims that Ashley was at fault for shutting her out. She would've been a normal parent otherwise, right? Well, no; the game wastes no time in showing that this wasn't the case in the Burial ending.

From when Ashley was a baby, Mrs. Graves was already tired of her shit, and too emotionally exhausted to be a parent. Despite her attempts at blaming Ashley, she would've never been a normal parent unless Ashley was a golden child in the same way that Andrew was. And yet Ashley didn't even deny shutting her mom out. She didn't deny the chance to be used as a scapegoat; it was all she ever knew. The fact that Mrs. Graves had the audacity to claim that she was a saint when she was never prepared to be a parent for a child who didn't make it easy, and when she was willing to sell out her children and let them die for a life insurance payment is absolutely astounding.

This alone should've been enough to recontextualize everything we supposedly know about how responsible Ashley really is in all of this, but bad parents have a knack for being great at manipulating both family members and everyone viewing from the outside, including the people playing the game.

And almost including Andrew.

Andrew almost accepting the mom's offer is the single most tragic moment in the game, by far.

Dandy said it best in his video essay: By Ashley leaving Andrew alone with their parents, she showed that she is capable of changing. That she is capable of getting better. She showed that she loves and respects Andrew enough to be able to put aside her usual role as the scapegoat and allow him to make the decision that was for the best for both of them. And make no mistake, it was for the best; if the mom really DID sell out the siblings, and given the two of them were already on the run for supposedly being dead, there was no hope of any of this ever working out. They saw through the conspiracy and knew the truth of how the quarantine operations really worked. They were an active threat to one of the most powerful entities seen in the setting so far, to the point where they had a hitman sent after them.

Mrs. Graves had every reason to sell them out again, for their presence in a public setting was more than enough to put everyone in their family in danger. Mrs. Graves had every reason to believe that the normalcy she wanted was nothing that could ever be grasped again so long as her children were alive, and as such, it was clear that she had nothing to offer either Andrew or Ashley. Ashley trusted Andrew to see through their obvious manipulations and lies, and understand that the parents had nothing left to give them. She trusted him to love her more than the false promises their parents could give.

…And yet. In spite of it all.

In spite of her love, in spite of clearly displaying that she can grow up and become a person that causes him less stress, and in spite of Ashley showing that all she wants now is their safety and security…

Andrew can still choose to consider Ashley the problem. He can still choose to use her as the scapegoat he always has.

He can still choose to see her as the one thing that caused him to be this way, that stands in between him and normalcy, when she, not once, forced him to do anything.

Were he to accept Mrs. Graves' offer, this would've been the single most tragic moment in the game. It almost was, and still stands to be, because he ignores every indication that things could be better for the sake of his own narrative, and a narrative echoed by much of the fandom.

But no matter what ending was picked, things could be better. They could've been better all along. Compared to chapter 1, their dynamic in chapter 2 is already much healthier. Their banter is less venomous, and while they still poke and prod each other in ways that aren't exactly great, they don't get into the same violent fights we saw in the 302 room. By all accounts, what happened in that room was an outlier. Even when they find themselves in their parents' house, where they stand to do the One Thing That Means They Would Never Be Normal Again, Ever (ignoring the fact that this is already a lost cause by then), Ashley doesn't get into any fights with Andrew in the same way she did back in the apartment. All she wants is affirmation and security. She doesn't even lay into her mom like she lays into Julia over the phone, even in their private conversations.

We’re led to believe that she’s still getting worse because the actions she’s taking are more extreme, but her attitudes and behaviors are much, much different. The actual actions they're taking are so obviously the right thing to do (both morally and practically) that I don't think it's until they eat their parents that you should make a double take and go "Wow, maybe these goblins actually are kinda fucked up," because until then, well… everything is justified! Perfectly so! Even then, eating their parents serves a purpose, even if not a mentally healthy one.

Maybe she’s calmer because she’s in control over the situation, but if the calls she made to Julia are any indication (independent of the theory that she didn’t actually say those things), were she unchanged as a person, she still would’ve lashed out at their mother over how much more useful she is to Andrew than their parents were, or something of that nature. Something about how nothing their mom offers could compete with what Ashley gives. But she makes no such claims. She feels no need to prove anything to her parents, or to reaffirm her place in Andrew’s life even in the face of her mother challenging it (or at least implying such a challenge). Regardless of her insecurities, she’s changed. It’s hard to see, but she has.

And then Andrew can ignore that and consider betraying her because he refuses to believe that she's willing to make their dynamic work, when she shows many different indications of being willing to concede as long as Andrew stops giving her mixed signals.

A friend of mine put it best, and I'm pretty much quoting her word for word here, because of how strongly I agree with it. When I look at Ashley, I find very few actual "flaws." I see familiar wounds.

The Burial ending, despite being triumphant and not nearly as "dark" as some people think, is still very, very sad. A lot of abusive dynamics are characterized by someone having to fight every step of the way to get what they need from the other person, usually some kind of emotional validation or relief. This is what happens between Andrew and Ashley for most of the game: Ashley wants Andrew to treat their relationship as special, to acknowledge there's something to it beyond just him going through the motions. And yet for most of the game, he refuses to, especially in chapter 1. And then, in Burial, when he does…

She's confused.

A lot of people view this as her being afraid of losing control over Andrew, since her "Andy," who she can push around, is gone. Andrew has changed, and the same tricks wouldn't work. But that's not what that is; it's not about control, it's about her finally getting what she wants from him without having to fight. She still thinks about using sex as leverage to keep him around, but that's because she's never understood what it's like to have someone actually want to be around her. And I speak from experience; when you no longer have to fight for every little bit of emotional validation or relief, when you no longer have to keep checking your messages to keep an argument going so you can finally be proven right, when you no longer have to force yourself to let go, to stop engaging, the reaction isn't happiness. It's not relief.

It's confusion. It's discontent.

Because something you've tied so much of yourself up in to is no longer there, despite it being more peaceful, it still feels wrong. The dynamic still has to be this way in your mind, because you've never known anything else. You latch on to whatever you can in order to justify that, and your actions are still heavily biased in favor of maintaining your place in that nonexistent dynamic. This isn't manipulation; it's trauma. And the fact that Ashley almost immediately understands that Andrew is changing is nothing short of a miracle. By consolidating past and present Andrew into a single person rather than splitting them into two, she showing that she can actually heal from that trauma. And all Andrew had to do to enable this is to acknowledge that she CAN change, that things CAN be better, and that everyone who claims to be better than her is full of shit.

I've analyzed the events of the story in a way that may seem needlessly antagonistic to some characters, and overly charitable to others. But I have to ask you, that if you disagree with anything I've said:

Where does that disagreement come from? What about my narrative clashes with your own? -Why- does it clash? Is it because the game presents your interpretation as obvious, whereas mine is not? Is it because you've experienced someone like Ashley before in your life, and you know it when you see it? Maybe you strongly identify with Andrew, and view his status as a doormat with no agency to be obvious? Or did you just accept the narrative that much of the fanbase has taken at face value, without further analysis other than building on top of it?

I don't believe these things to be contrarian; I've held most of these opinions since my first or second playthrough. I don't believe what I do because you don't, I believe what I do because I understand what Ashley has been through. I've experienced a lot of the specific traumas she had, such as deep feelings of isolation and being deprived of the emotional validation I need from the people who need to give it. I know what it's like to be misunderstood, to have who and what I am taken for granted, and to be terrified of being abandoned by the people I need the most. I see what I do because I understand.

And I want to give her that understanding that nobody gave me.

Maybe you should think about it. Why do you take it for granted that Andrew is a doormat who is strung along by Ashley? Why do you find it so odd when the trope of a woman corrupting a good man through leveraging sex is drawn into question? Why is Ashley seen as crazy, when all of her actions are so straightforward and rational? How is she corrupting him, when the single most needlessly violent act in the whole story- outside of the Nina flashback- is done without her influence? Why is Ashley seen as the abusive one when Andrew both threatens and resorts to physical violence and witholds emotional validation?

Weirdly personal tangent aside, Ashley and Andrew are two of the most well-written characters I have ever seen. They're not written like archetypes who interact with each other through a series of tropes; they're written like real people who's words and actions have astoundingly human motivations. They come from places that we can understand and relate to.

And just like people, they deserve respect. In spite of all they've done, they deserve love.

But make no mistake, Ashley is not the one stopping that love from happening. She just has the audacity to still want it in spite of everything telling her that she doesn't deserve it. We're led to believe she wants too much, but all she ever wanted was the bare minimum that she was never given.

And she has every right to be mad about it.

[matan4il]

911 ep 709 first watch reactions

The way this ep starts with giving us a clear shot focused on the front, solely on Buck sitting between the man he's dating and the man he's been married to for the past six years, and only on them. XD I'm here for it.

Oh, Bobby. :( Feeling unworthy of his medal, and remembering his dad, and how everything went wrong after he got it. </3

Aaaah. Man, IDK. The openly and explicitly homophobic and racist captain cartoon just feels like an easy target now. Prejudice doesn't seem like it mostly gets expressed that way anymore, and when we only teach people to reject that kind, we not only fail to teach them to recognize subtler forms, we may be misleading them to think those more nuanced ones don't count.

Love Athena trying to "save" Bobby by contacting Amir. I'm always a sucker for a couple where they both save each other.

I enjoyed the little play with "Mother Hen," and I know it's not specifically about Buddie, but it is damn funny that when she's told she's raising more kids, they're the ones the camera focuses on. lol Raising a kid together for 6 years, still a couple of morons in desperate need of parenting from their colleagues. Even when Bobby's "wordless goodbye" moment with Buck is letting him cook for the 118, Eddie's by his side and they're doing it together. I swear, 911 said, "Take note, this is what a marriage looks like" and then just kept hammering the point for 6 seasons now.

Okay, I am pretty sure that, while Bobby's acceptance of Buck's first relationship with a guy, is really lovely, "Because we haven't had to talk about it" is not an actual good criterion for discerning whether someone is good for their partner or not. People whose spouses are abusive don't talk about it, either. :/ I am NOT saying that's Buck and Tommy, because it obviously isn't, it just feels like a line thrown in there to be cutesy, but which isn't actually helpful to people, who might take it too seriously.

I AM GONNA LOL FOREVER. So, just like Buck's bi awakening was all about Eddie, now Eddie's messed up whatever he has with Kim is gonna involve Buck, too? Gotcha. Battlefield boyfriends being off-battlefield boyfriends once more.

So... Buck was going to see Tommy, in an ep where TPTB have already paid for Lou in the role, so might as well use him as much as possible, but instead a non-emergency run in with Eddie's current whatever-Kim-is makes Buck ditch Tommy, and run straight over to Eddie's to help him? Look, I'm obviously a One True Pairing kind of shipper, so Buddie are it for me, as much as I can enjoy and see the value of Buck and Tommy as a stepping stone, and nothing will make me stop shipping Buddie (especially not after the tsunami eps), but 911 is feeding me way too well with how it frames these scenes and stories, I don't think the show's trying to get me to stop.

Man, if anyone's ever had a doubt that Eddie is the world champion at denial, this kitchen scene will def cure that.

"I'm worried about you." "Yeah, I'm worried about me, too." And then Buck, the one person who can ALWAYS penetrate through Eddie's denial wall, no matter how thick it is.

Eh, IDK how much the part where they try to re-define Shannon as the love of Eddie's life works, or how much it just serves to show he's still in denial, just a different kind than before, when Buck got through to him that he can't go on like this with Kim. For one thing, in his little retelling of their dysfunctional r/s, Eddie doesn't mention that Shannon was leaving him a second time, even before she died. Literal denial and repression.

So I'm gonna choose to believe Hen and Karen will get Mara back, because I can't deal with that particular storyline otherwise.

Kim's reaction is too deranged for me. Who does something like that, even if we assume the kindest of intentions? And then Marisol and Christopher's timing... I didn't sign on to watch a soap opera, but I guess I'm getting one free of charge?

"Now you gotta save yourself." If that ain't a painful summary of what growing up means, IDK what is. the conversation with Bobby's dad in his sleep was a good, painful scene, built right, leading to him hopefully getting his closure through saving his wife from a fire, and leaving us with just the right amount of suspension for next week and the season finale, where we'll see if he can let go of his past mistakes without a doppelganger dressing up like his dead wife...

Thank you for reading! If you’re looking for more, you can find my s7 reactions tag here, and more of my Buddie meta and content in my pinned post. xoxox

[mimibwi]

Just say you’re a closeted Taekooker and go. The Taennie situation is suspicious? No it’s not. Lol. Taehyung is dating Jennie, get over it. And I’m curious as to why you think that “realistically speaking” no ship is real? These boys have been close friends for more than ten years, is it impossible for romantic feelings to develop? I bet there are a hell lot more ships in Kpop that are/were real and will never be revealed. Queer people are everywhere, and the entertainment industries is especially saturated with us. :)

My first “closeted Taekooker” accusation🫢 Finally!!!?

Provided my last three posts were just me defending Taekook from “fanservice” allegations, I expected this much sooner so thank you but you definitely missed the mark on this anon lml.

Anyway, I didn’t use the word suspicious. Although it has similar connotations to “weird” or “strange”, I still don’t think “suspicious” is what I was going for. It’s just weird *shrugs *. I think many people can see that. Like I said in the post, that opinion is independent of them actually dating or not. Even if Taehyung posts a picture of him and Jennie tomorrow, I will forever stick with my opinion that the way their relationship was dealt with in the public eye for the last year or so is strange. And at the end of the day, it’s just my opinion. Jennie and Taehyung definitely don’t care what user mimibwi on tumblr has to say about their relationship😭.

About no ship being real. The comment isn't meant to disprove the existence of queer people. I do know that we exist. I also don't get why you thought I was implying that because the members possibly being queer isn't limited to ships within BTS. They can all be attracted to men and still not be dating each other...

When I say "realistically” or rather “If we’re looking at this seriously” (which is what i actually said), I am looking at BTS as what they are- a brand, a business. When we see BTS what they're doing is working, this is their job. And I fully stand with anyone who thinks that it's possible that the members could have developed feelings for each other. However, I also am of the opinion that these men are professional and I think the chance of them taking (what can be seen as) a huge risk to their brand, career and future is very small. (A chance being small doesn’t mean impossible) And once again, this has nothing to do with their sexuality and everything to do with them wanting to maintain the integrity(?) of BTS as a team. I know shippers play around with things like "maybe they broke up" or "maybe he left x for y" and those are all good when it's just fun and games but that isn't what these real people's lives are. Can you imagine how much of a strain it would put on the team's dynamic if Jikook or Yoonmin or Namjin or whoever you ship were together and then break up, whether amicably or not? This is looking at it in a very negative way but I think if any of the guys were to ever date or mess around, all of these things would've or at least should've been considered. So the reason why I think it's less likely that any ship is "real" is the same reason I think it's unlikely that any of the boys have messed around with their stylists or makeup artists etc. Can it happen? Of course. Is it advised? Probably not. But these two situations can’t be looked at on the same scale—there are a lot of nitty gritty details that make these too different but i won’t bore you much longer. Either way, BTS are global pop icons and I doubt it will be very easy to deal with a fallout (a break up, them possibly being outed etc. etc.) of any relationship amongst a group of their capacity and the members are surely aware of that.

As I mentioned in the post, I am saying all of this as a shipper, as a person who, on some days (my most delulu ones), wonders to myself how everyone doesn't see that the members of my ship have serious romantic feelings for each other. I am an overthinker, I think of as many possibilities under the sun as I can. And notice that I keep saying possibilities because none of my opinions are ever meant to enforce any particular views on anyone. I am just looking at things from many different perspectives. This is my HR/PR perspective here lol. I can even try to look at it from Bang PD's perspective and even he wouldn't have the final say on whether the boys decide to pursue a relationship or not. At the end of it all, It's up to the members of that ship whether they are willing to take the "risk" or not and my hunch usually leans towards them not being willing to (this is once again something I can expand a bit more on but i’ll save you from it) which is why i shared that opinion anon.

This is a topic I have many thoughts on, my views on it aren’t limited to what I’ve expressed here— it’s just difficult to explain. I can debate with myself for a long time on why i think it’s likely no ship is real while still being a shipper. The whole point of that opinion wasn’t to declare that “no ship is real so give it up”. Instead it was meant to encourage shippers to doubt themselves cause some of y’all (maybe not you specifically) are just too comfortable and confident when you could just be loud and wrong. We could all be wrong.

~🐝

[sombersafari]

Sockmaniacs

Wakko: So you're saying that I'm supposed to go into a shop and pick out a new pair of socks? Yakko: Yes, but like not the nice ones that smell bad or anything like that. Wakko: What's there to pick? Yakko: Uhh… a good brand of socks? Dot: Why does this have to be such a big deal? Yakko: Because your sock taste buds are so sensitive that you can never pick the perfect socks, therefore I'm helping you make an informed decision on which ones to try first and which ones you don't want to try anymore. Wakko: Wow, you think you're helping me and my sis? Yakko: Yes, and if I am, then it must be pretty damn hard for you two to make a smart decision about something as basic as socks. Dot: I'm making them with my eyes closed right now. Wakko: Well, I hope you do. Dot: Thanks, you know you boys care about me and my fashion sense. Wakko: Of course we care about your fashion sense. Yakko: No but like seriously, why is this so hard for you two to decide? Dot: I don’t know, maybe the socks have some sort of special meaning. Wakko: I doubt the socks will even tell us their secret if they aren't even allowed to give clues. Yakko: Hmm… you might be onto something there. Wakko: Or I think they could just talk to us. Dot: How do you know that socks will even talk to us? Wakko: Um, I mean yeah they do kinda speak in riddles sometimes but still...? Yakko: I wonder if there's a way to communicate with socks that's not by words... like maybe we could put our hands on one and see if they feel like they should speak too. Dot: I doubt it would work but at least it would be entertaining. Wakko: Okay, but then again, we don't know whether our souls will be able to communicate either. Yakko: We'll cross that bridge when we get to it. Wakko: Right… anyway I don't understand how you keep buying them if they clearly have no purpose. I mean what use are those socks? Dot: Well, I was kind of hoping they would teach you to play piano, but I guess that's too much to ask. Wakko: You don't say. Yakko: Haha, you really need to lighten up, Wakko. Dot: Maybe he needs a bit more sunshine in his life than I do. Wakko: Don't be so pessimistic. Yakko: Well, it's either that or he needs a couple of glasses of water, but I think his personality is already too dry and sunburnt for any amount of water to help him. Wakko: Hey, don't compare me to a dehydrated potato. Dot: You were born dried out, though. Wakko: And yet I manage to keep my body looking good all day long despite being a potato. Yakko: That's because you eat a lot of food. Wakko: What can I say, I'm a growing boy who enjoys eating as much as possible. Dot: And yet you still can't eat worth shit. Wakko: …You're right, but I'd appreciate it if you didn't call my running gag worthless. Yakko: I wouldn't ever say that. Wakko: Anyway, let’s not go off on a tangent. We still gotta figure out how to communicate through socks. Dot: Well then how are we supposed to get that done? The only thing I've learned from talking from these socks is that they're useless. Wakko: We don't even know if the socks can understand us or just respond to our signals, so maybe we should just try it. Yakko: Are you sure that's a good idea? Wakko: I'm positive. If we keep trying, the socks might eventually get a clue that we can't hear them and reply in kind or something. I mean what else are we supposed to do with our time? Yakko: Fair point. Alright, let’s start causing some mayhem! [and so they started communicating with socks until they were out of the store for doing those things]

[devastatinglygreen]

Brosephine back to say “Did you ever know that your my heroooo”

When I tell you *that storyline* still makes me irrationally angry bc not only is it SO far removed from the book and the relationship between those characters (HIS COUSIN????) It changes the Polin dynamic so much. We knew as Polin shippers we’d have to deal with the “I’ll never marry/court Penelope” but to watch him do all of that right in front of Pen while book!Colin specifically says he never proposed to anyone else???? And Colin already has enough doubt and second guessing about his place in the world as the third son. VERY UNNECESSARY to add in some more insecurity and question of whether or not his real fiancé is lying to him! Nah for these reasons alone S3 will be superior bc at least it made fucking sense.

Also as a Plant Daddy and Eloise fan I’d love for their story to be next, and think it’d make the most sense given where the story left off (My conspiracy is given that Ben was often with Hy and Greg this season when he wasn’t being the story bicycle means he’s not mature enough/ready for his love story yet) BUT is that just going to be used as more angst for Pen given what *that storyline* meant for her? This is why I have CVDPTSD.

"you're everything i wish i could beeeeeeee"

it's so random, really. and to make her a featherington cousin when her being a bridgerton cousin is literally the crux of why eloise writes to phillip is wild but whatever.

we get it, the show likes love triangles but she wasn't even interested past her own interests and you know how shows often write women with an ulterior motive that either condemns or absolves them? it was like that but make her inherently unlikable on top of it.

also i feel like the triangle needs to know it's a triangle to work and also love triangles are awful and we need to stop relying on them because the show doesn't really put any effort into them. debling? colin never even speaks to him (10/10 no notes on that, that's hilarious actually) but stares hatefully. that man wasn't even aware there was one, he was like i need a wife and i want to see some penguins.

(tho pour one out to knowing, with your whole heart, had there been another female for colin that pen had to suffer through, she'd have been called petty and immature if she'd acted at all the way colin did)

i do think s3 tried to fix some of his insecurity, pls no one throw tomatoes at me, by having him search for the physical connection with randoms that left him wanting. it was a very clear way to have him understand the difference in how he felt after being with penelope. and how clear they made it that he was in love, he was telling everyone about it, he wasn't using it as a defense to get people to take him seriously, he was like, i don't think you understand, i am losing my shit about being in love, this has never happened before i am stupid in love and also possibly the most motivated man on the planet i cannot pick a struggle. i need to see my wife immediately.

they were also not subtle about anthony being like at least you're getting married for all the RIGHT reasons this time. LIKE LOVE. because that wasn't it the first time, bro.

either way. still. they had to do way too much work to bring him back around to book colin's revelation of how nothing like penelope had ever happened to him before.

i would loooove eloise next but idk. i'm down for a conspiracy theory. and yesssss, you know they'd love to have shoved all the angst down penelope's throat about it. cvdptsd fr fr.

support group is tuesdays at 7pm. bring cookies. or cake (don't worry, we looked into it and it does not get you pregnant).

[urmanipulatorytendencies]

enha and whether they'd listen to chapel roan (jk, but i bet you're wondering too, hm)

I saw someone do this and I thought hm, they might just be inspecting my brains cause I had literally just been reminded of it from a separate Twitter post but here it is:

Enha's ranking from most proximity to homie(O) -- least (based from pure vibes) (this isn't meant to be taken seriously but I saw the post (that i saw, DUH) and I felt very seen because it honestly baffles me that this group has to be one of the bro-y-ish groups in existence and yet at least 1 out of 7 people are gay so that's sus and very backwards in the best way possible) (like either they're so gay they out-straight the straights) (if that makes sense) (or they're just...not-- which is no fun because straight people can be so boring) (like so many gay people who just don't care to showcase it or can't, ig, tend to be so norm looking that they go under the radar.) (but not by me, tho-- no I see those hoes for who they truly are :)

Kim Sunoo

Are you shitting my dik rn. Be serious when you tell me that that guy isn't a little fruit basket matured to perfection. He's so beautiful and has a current of exuding confidence unmatched. Like, I don't really know how to explain it but it's the kind of self assurance in one's mannerism and appearance that I only ever see more flamboyant gay guys have. And I do NOT mean the walking pride parades who buy Target pride and obsessively listen to Lady Gaga. No, I mean the (mostly non-white) flavor of gay that is very feminine, very chic, very sassy, but run their persona like a ruler-- they may have started off insecure but they know what they want, and they don't care how they appear to others just being themselves.

2. Park Sunghoon

Now don't misinterpret this please, I'm not putting him here for some sick Sunsun delusion. Pure. Vibes. He's the kind of queer to be so ravishingly attractive and normal looking that it's deceiving, but that just means that they know exactly who they are. Tbh, I could just be flaking myself and Sunghoon might just be one of the most regular-degular guys ever but idk, something in the back of my mind tells me that if he were in an American drama, he would be the super preppy Football captain: very charming, very sexy, super masculine and close with his bro friends-- but he'd never have a girlfriend. Why? Cause he's a confident closet gay in-disguise. He's not keeping it a secret because he's ashamed, no. He just doesn't see it as something important enough to share.

3. Nishimura Ri Ki

Similar enough to Sunghoon, this is either the queerest stranger or the worst deception and he's in fact, the most normal of them all. (I'm less doubtful of him than Hoon but his ranking stays where it is.) Ni ki was probably VERY influenced by his sisters and female family members growing up (as per the pre-debut videos and whatnot), and while I do think that that can influence perception (which it might-- obviously), I still think that in some way or another, Ni ki's just a fruity guy. There's a sense of mystery that surrounds him, and it's really hard to peg down as something inherently queer-- 'cause it isn't, but the way he just kind of accepts the culture around him, whether it be flamboyant and feminine, or closed-off and masculine, makes me wonder if he's really just a Sister's Guy, or if he's just open to anything and everything.

4. Park Jay

Controversial opinion, Jay seems like he'd be way more than open to ally-ship than engene give him head cannon credit for. I really don't get any queerness vibes from him-- even beyond his very average, preppy style, he just kinda seems like he'd be the close friend of a gay guy THAN BEING the gay guy. I would honestly be surprised if he were, not that it's anyone's business or that it matters, cause it doesn't, but say in a hypothetical situation where HIS world was more accepting and it was a plausible thing for him to come out with a relationship...say it were a guy, I would tell myself, "well damn, I wouldn't have clocked that one." He's so supportive and very comforting, which tells me that in my heart, I'd love to be certain that he'd be very accepting and open. (I honest to God don't think he'd tolerate homophobia or prejudice like that, I just feel like it's not in his nature.)

5. Yang Jungwon

He's an interesting case because there's nothing straight about him (not really, anyway) but there's nothing gay about him either. He just kind of exists. Honestly, it's harder for me to peg him as anything mostly because Jungwon is a very complicated person to try and understand past what has been spoon fed to us from content and business-pushed personas. He's soft and innocent, but also professional and sly in a sort of sexy way. He can get what he wants but it's the want that feels lacking. I mean this in the most bestest way possible, but there's nothing incredibly unique about Jungwon's presence. (I don't want people coming at me for this, dp he's literally my bias wrecker. Like that's my boyfriend right there, I don't wanna here anything about not appreciating YANG JUNGWON, okay?) I just mean that he has no distinctive quality that's easily classified as queer or not queer or straight as a pencil...if that makes sense. I believe he'd be an ally, definitely. But I can also believe that he might see it as an insignificant identity. If he were really queer, I could believe it. But if queerness was something that he didn't even have registered in his perception of society-- or his life-- I could believe that, too.

6. Sim Jake

Hate me or love me, I think this guy's just about every dude-bro with a gay bestie. And I mean this so genuinely. He's charismatic and masculine, he's loud and goofy. There's nothing easily identified about him that screams queerness. He just appears to be so typical that it's hard to believe in a version of Jake that has that kind of energy, you know? I really think that if the topic came up, he'd be quite supportive of it. I can imagine one of those fancalls where an Engene implies queerness, or the mention of a gay relationship (in some correlation to enha), and he'd be over the moon. But as a person, Jake comes off as the typical straight charmer.

7. Lee Heeseung

Something in my nuggets tells me that his view of real queerness is a little more than stereotyped. He's very cool, very classically chill and nonchalant. He's got great style and good taste-- all this to say, it was probably influenced BY queerness. He reminds me of a current American-male prototype (especially seen in trendy fashion), where the guy can pull off femininity well and is easily accepting of nonconforming styles/media/art/(even)people, BUT they have a hard time conceptualizing queerness as an entity of its own and not just an identifier or aura if you will. These guys tend to be the least open to any real physical expression of gay (by means of intimacy or the more vulnerable aspects of queerness). And I hate to paint Heesung in this light because he seems really vibe-y, but I can't help but think that this guy has little to no real perception of romantic or sexual queer interest.

This was just a little think-a-rooney. I can't say that I haven't thought about this before because I have-- I think it's very interesting to think deeper about an industry that uses queer influence and fan service as means to create a selling image of regular artists (that are muses, in some way or another). Especially considering the very known fact that it all takes place in one of the most traditionally conservative countries in the world, enforced by (most likely) conservatives, made for a (ideologically conservative) target market. The way style is used and the way interactions between these idols are made to pander to the fans makes wanting to know more about an UNFILTERED "them" so much more intriguing. I don't mean for this to exist as valid speculation, but purely, speculation from an observant fan, who exists in a world where queerness is a lot easier to detect, even beyond the filters and walls meant to deceive and stay hidden. Of course, it's something that isn't meant to be public information, however, as queerness has become a more social identity-- with culture and unique experience surrounding it (as more than just a commodity or kink exploit), there's something to the speculation that feels a lot like humanization. Even if it's wrong. Ig. Idk that low-key sounds like a horrible thing to say. But I'm speaking my truth. Sue me.

[honey-dew-woo]

possible rooster dating hangman’s sister headcanon??🫡

I tried. It might suck. But I tried lol

Masterlist

--------------------------------------------------------------

Being Hangman's sister and having a crush on Rooster would include...

>You'd be Hangman's younger sister.

>I don't know, you just are

>I mean you know your brothers an asshole, no doubt about it

>i mean for christ's sake you grew up with him

>you of all people would know.

>so when you got recalled to the same detachment as him, you internally groaned when you found out.

>i mean you love him, you really do

>but god he can be a dick.

>when you first show up to Penny's bar and the crew is all there, they're a little nervous

>Hangman had briefly mentioned you, and there was a running bet that you'd be just as much of an asshole

>So when you show up and act like... a decent human being... everyone's so shook?

>Bradley  had watched you from across the bar

>lowkey it was kind of creepy? 

>Until Phoenix introduced you two

>hitting it off like instantly?

>"Back off my sister, Bradshaw."

>"She's her own person, Hangman. Why don't you let her make her own decisions?"

>Penny was so close to having Maverick kick both of them out...

>Tension so thick you'd have to cut it with a knife.

>Hangman would shake it off and go play pool

>You would play pool too

>While you're not a jackass, you are a pilot

>Incredibly competitive. 

>You would talk shit to anyone and everyone you'd play pool against, similarly to your brother

>But you wouldn't ever get as serious with your insults

>Speaking of serious insults

>Whenever Hangman brings up Rooster's dad

>You were livid. Pissed. Seeing red.

>You shoved your brother off of Rooster.

>"What the hell is wrong with you?"

>"What, Y/N? You still want to be a sensitive little girl for the boy you have a crush on?"

>You didn't slap him.

>You punched him.

>Knocking him off his feet, stumbling back into Coyote, who helped him up.

>You're seething with anger as you storm off. 

>Like seriously? God how is he such a dick?

>You'd find Bradley now twenty minutes later in a break room

>Maverick would pass you on the way out

>He'd think about stopping you but decided against it, Bradley just needed a friend right then

>You'd knock before entering.

>Honestly Rooster didn't know whether to accept the company or tell you to leave him alone

>A part of him thought you were on Hangman's side of the altercation

>He ultimately didn't say anything, but looked up at you with hurt eyes

>Not sad, or angry, just hurt. Defensive, almost.

>"Hey."

>You'd stop next to the couch where he's seated, patting his shoulder 

>"Hey."

>"I'm sorry about him. He's just such a jackass."

>He wouldn't say anything, just look up at you with those eyes.

>God those eyes

>You'd have to bite your cheek to prevent a frown from taking over your face

>"Bradley, I-"

>He'd cut you off before standing, placing one hand at the base of your jawline, making you look up at him

>"Can I kiss you?" He'd ask, staring into your eyes

>"No." You'd smile, warmly at him before placing your hands over his shoulders, behind his head.

>"I'm not going to kiss you so that you can get back at my brother, Bradley. But what I am going to do is be here as your friend until you two get over whatever the hell this shit is."

>And so you did. 

>And he didn't push it, either.

>But after the mission? When Hangman saved his ass and the two were good again?

>As soon as Rooster made it off that plane he found you again

>Neither of you hesitated this time, kissing each other happily

>Hangman would sarcastically clap.

>"If you hurt her-"

>"I won't."

[haleigh-sloth]

What were your thoughts so far on this chapter?

Well, right now my current thinking is:

I'm tired of mass hysteria and rage erupting with every chapter, literally no matter what happens in it.

Right now the big issue is Toga's "confession" and everyone thinking her character is being ruined, when to me it feels very in character of her to say something like that.

Anyway, here are my already-formed-thoughts on the big issues this chapter:

Shigaraki's scars #1

Shigaraki's scars #2

Toga #1

Toga #2

Shigaraki/AFO

I'm a little talked out about Toga right now. I'm not worried about her arc because it seems to be holding up exactly as it should be, and I don't have much more to say than I did in those two linked posts ^^.

But I want to talk a bit more about Shigaraki's scars disappearing.

First: of course there is the possibility of Hori erasing them for aesthetic reasons (which is bad symbolism and would be super shitty of him to do). It's not impossible, but I have a million more reasons to think that's not the case, and I definitely do not think he just forgot the mole on a very large close-up of his face either. For now until we're shown otherwise, I think it's intentional.

I voiced what I thought was happening with the scars in those two linked posts up there ^^, but the last Shigaraki/AFO post kind of ties into what I think is going on. I think AFO is very present in this chapter, and that it's not really Shigaraki talking.

Since it's a lot of people noticing the scars disappearing, I really don't think it's an error on anyone's part.

So I wanna voice a couple of possibilities for what's going on:

1. Retroactive regeneration, meaning it works backwards too. If this is the case, I don't think it's permanent. I'll explain why after I list the other possibility.

2. As I said in my posts above, a result of AFO and Shigaraki fusing even more, maybe even reaching that 100% or whatever.

Now I'll admit I was pretty put off with the scars disappearing at first, but there are seriously legitimate, story-telling reasons for this happening. This is another issue I'm not engaging with the hysteria and rage on right now either, until we're given a reason to worry and think Hori is actually gonna go with: disappearance of scars = happy ending. Which would be 👎🏼.

So Shigaraki's scars disappearing is not meaningless. If it's because of the retroactive regeneration, then I still don't expect that to be permanent. There's ways for it to be reversed honestly: Eri rewind (whether anybody likes it or not it's still a possibility), or they could just come back when he loses the AFO quirk, I mean that's also possible.

But if it's because of the AFO takeover of his body and mind, then, yeah. There's some nasty disturbing symbolism there. I assumed the AFO takeover, but I needed second opinions. And after talking with @hamliet (who has big brain), she pointed out two important things:

Firstly: Shigaraki is literally as far from healing as he has ever been right now. His scars disappearing is literally being associated with the worst. state. of his life. So....them disappearing at this point in his arc indicates that once he reaches salvation, they'll come back. Because they're a part of him, and he'll be himself.

Secondly: the scars disappearing could very well be a sign of Shigaraki losing his individuality. Which is LITERALLY what IS happening right now. Those scars have been a prominent part of his arc throughout the entire story. They itch when he's angry, frustrated, thinking about his family. They've been there since he was a little child. They're associated with his emotions, they're a part of who he is. So them disappearing perfectly aligns with the loss of his identity.

Now again, we could ALLLL be overreacting to the panel and Hori could have forgot to put the mole and the scars, but....given Hori's consistent attention to detail when it comes to Shigaraki, I doubt it.

So I'm going to go with the symbolism of him losing his identity.

Basically, I'm gonna assume there's a narrative reason for such a change and not get angry over something potentially shallow when we don't actually know. Getting angry before I need to just upsets me and exhausts me, and takes the fun out of reading the story.

Yeah, it's possible Hori could be shitty and remove them for good for Shigaraki's "healing", but where does that leave Touya? Who still has all his? Does he not get to heal because he has his? It just wouldn't be consistent, it wouldn't make sense. So....I'm not gonna just, be mad. It's exhausting. I'm over the negativity.

Lastly, I really do love where Shigaraki's arc is right now. He is seriously in the worst state ever and it's horrible and sad, but it's necessary.

I've honestly had nothing but good things to think ever since the LOV came back into the picture back at chapter 329 months ago. I'm pretty happy with everything right now. I'm excited to see how the Midoriya/Ochacko/Toga situation goes down, I'm excited to see Touya and Shouto interact, and I'm the MOST excited for the Shigaraki/Midoriya stuff to happen.

Those are my thoughts right now, thank you for asking!!

(Also thank you Hams for your brain and making things make sense lolol)

[ineffably-human]

here's the thing about 'queerbaiting', something I still think doesn't exist:

there are queer couples all over the place in media these days. most of them are traditionally sexy young adults, because most romance writing is about traditionally sexy young adults. but you tend to know what you're getting within a season or two. there's a distinct lack of queer slow burns in the traditional rom-com sense where you don't immediately know where it's going. if you've got a queer romance, then you've got a queer romance. most of the fanfare I see when something long-term goes canon is from 'animation lesbians': Catradora, Bubbleline, Korrasami, because the idea that animation is for kids (and Catradora's whole...deal) put their endgame in question.

but please consider: part of that is because in a M/F rom-com you know if they're devoting a lot of screen time to these two people interacting, that's your couple, and there's no doubt. the slow burn is HOW it's gonna happen, unless the show truly changes its direction halfway through, which is rare.

in a potential queer romance that doesn't immediately pay off, half the intrigue is sitting and wondering: if the writers realize what they're doing, if they're doing it on purpose, if this or that thing is symbolic or a hidden message, if that thing they said out loud is a joke or taking the possibility seriously. it's the ultimate parasocial 'does he like me or LIKE like me?' because it's baked into the experience itself that a little part of you believes it might not happen. I guarantee that there was never something with Jim and Pam or Jake and Amy where the actors/writers said something romantic about them in an interview and everyone went 'omg!! they were insane for this!!!' because there's nothing 'insane' about it, and there's nothing 'insane' about doing it for a queer couple either. we just don't EXPECT it yet.

the thing that makes a queer will-they-won't-they exciting for you is the exact thing that makes a queer will-they-won't-they potentially heartbreaking. I'm not saying it's bad to want it, just - understand that the reason you're reacting to That Very Intense Friendship and not the larger and larger offering of unambiguously canon queer media is because the potential 'taboo' of a queer pairing is like a mobius strip.

and half the time we're retrofitting a pairing. we want to ship, we find something shippable, we hunt for potential hints and dynamics accordingly. we are literally working in a different language than a lot of straight writers, and off a different set of endorphin rushes and emotional payoffs than a lot of straight viewers.

I can name maybe four shows that actually understood they had a queer fanbase and leaned into that fanbase while having no intention of paying it off. and almost all of those shows are like a decade old or at least started that long ago. some of them even clearly, vocally said they weren't writing a romance, people just didn't believe them or hoped they'd changed their minds. please name what you consider a clear example of queerbaiting that isn't Sherlock, Supernatural, Teen Wolf, idk maybe Gotham? (except does that even count if one of the pair is canon queer and the problem is they weren't taken seriously? I did not watch or Tumblr-osmose as much about Gotham.) and for whatever show you're naming, did they ever actually promise or even hint at queerness to begin with?

(I have remembered Loki after already posting this but I am like...torn on Loki. they said Loki would be bi and he is bi. him not getting with a man after being bi is not queerbaiting. it's a person being bisexual. and Disney being boring.)

I promise: OFMD didn't invent gay people, and there are shows on this earth that aren't Supernatural. I love hunting for whether they're 'actually gonna do it' as much as the next person, but understand why that hits a sweet spot that immediately canon queer relationships don't.

[viridiave]

Daylight Prairie- Creatures of the Light (lore dump)

I've had a couple of theories and headcanons stirring around my head regarding Prairie for a while now- so right here we're gonna tie some of them together cuz I haven't lored in a good long while XD

Note- btw I'm not part of beta so this is purely just me- a crackhead- putting together a crackpot narrative. SOME spoilers for Eden are present.

<THE CEREMONIAL WORSHIPPERS>

okay these guys drive me fucking nuts

We barely know anything about these guys- and what little we do know is derived purely from their closed off uh... Worshipping space. Look at this freaking thing.

In the middle of nowhere. Surrounded by clouds for miles. Fairly advanced diamond technology. Altars with graves decked out in gold and candles. The mechanism for the entrance to the elevator to begin with is fairly complex as well- activated by butterflies and the butterflies don't even die in the process. And to top everything off, this place has a portal that leads directly to the Prairie Temple.

If this isn't sus I don't know what is- but I think I have an explanation.

There are six spaces for six more people that we are not aware of. The only people we DO know of is one bald person in the short garb and another bald person in the long garb. I propose that these six missing people are the Whisperers.

Which is... pretty out there, I know. Counting the 'voices' that we get in game, (including the ones from previous Seasons like Lightseekers and Sanctuary) we have one for Birds, Whales, Mantas, Memories, Crabs, and Jellyfish. For now, we're not counting either Butterflies or Krill- and I'll explain why in a bit.

As for the initial proposition that these Whisperers are the missing six, first we need to ask ourselves what exactly it was that the Worshippers were... worshipping. There is a possible god of which we see in game, and the name of this god is the Megabird.

Megabird here was heavily present in concepts, and in the final product we only ever get to see traces of her and heck to this day we're not sure if she's a canon entity in the final game at all. Megabird as an entity in the concepts is basically the god overseeing the world of Sky and is comprised entirely of light. It's unclear whether or not the Ancestors were aware of her existence after or even before the King rose to power. The Elders themselves are likely privy to this information, but somehow I doubt that it's something anyone wanting to assert control over their people would encourage.

There's certainly the possibility that these Worshippers were a religious sect dedicated to the Elders themselves- but since I'm here trying to propose that they're worshipping something tangential to the possible actual god, we're going to assume this isn't the case. On that note-

<THE WORSHIPPERS WERE DEVOUT TO LIGHT ITSELF>

I propose that the Ceremonial Worshippers valued the Light above all else- and this worship was extended towards the light creatures themselves.

'Oi. Vir. Crabs are DARK Creatures.'

Not all of them. Heck, a dark crab might not have been the norm back then, but that's a stretch and besides- the fact is that these crabs on the far end of Sanctuary are docile.

Keep in mind that these followers were stationed in Prairie, of all places. You know what else is in Prairie? Sanctuary Isles- home to several kinds of manta, butterflies, jellyfish, and even the elusive Elder Manta (yes that's what the big chonky boi that looks like a light krill is called- it's not a whale.).  Daylight Prairie is in no shortage of light creatures- and at the center of it all is its Elder.

Prairie Elder is implied to have responsibilities toward the light creatures as presented in the SkyShop poem featuring them:

'Fields of harvest, prairies of joy.

Farmer and fauna as one.

The Elder protects the creatures of light,

For darkened days to come.

Fly up, fly away,

For the Children of Light in need.

We shall recall our days of wonder,

And feel its air once more.'

-SkyShop Poem (Prairie Elder Pin)

In the greater context of the story, Daylight Prairie is the primary source of light energy in the form of the light creatures- it makes sense that the Elder of that realm would oversee the flow of light creatures from one realm to the other, and that the Ancestors in their domain would have a greater respect for the creatures than others. They're the ones working with them, and they're the ones that know them best.

Enter the Worshippers- who were likely serving directly under the Prairie Elder. I'm not confident that the Prairie Elder could have shared information about the Megabird- or if they even know the god existed. 'The Light itself' is pretty vague for something to be worshipped, and it's possible that the Prairie Elder instead encouraged people that the Light manifested itself into the various light creatures that we see.

In this world however- industrialization marches on, and eventually these light creatures became things to be harvested rather than worshipped. It's speculated that light creatures were used in the production of diamonds- we see signs of this scattered throughout Forest, and Wasteland by proxy. The mural under the bridge in Forest and the doors to the Temple seem to suggest as much at least. Eventually, this industrialization will grow out of hand. I have a few theories on what the Prairie Elder might have done to passively rebel against this.

<PRAIRIE ELDER AND THE BUTTERFLIES>

We learn in the Prairie Elder's cutscene that they are able to form- not summon- butterflies from fire. I'm not proposing that the Prairie Elder is single-handedly responsible for the existence of butterflies- rather I'm proposing through the Prairie Elder's abilities that light is able to be manipulated in such a way that one can create light creatures, should they know how.

It could just be the butterflies, honestly. And really it could just be the Prairie Elder that's capable of such a feat- and because of these holes in this theory it's the first to go.

And yes this is the reason why the Butterflies don't count. I think. That has holes too and I can make a case for the Butterfly Charmer technically being part of this... But I digress.

<SANCTUARY ISLES>

Sanctuary Islands could be a literal Sanctuary for the light creatures- there is an impressive variety of them present. It's also very out of the way, tucked away in a corner of Bird's Nest. The theory I'm proposing here is that the Prairie Elder and the Sanctuary Guide worked together to keep this place hidden from the rest of the Kingdom- and that it was the Sanctuary Guide that broke the bells that would have granted the Ancestors access to the light creatures.

<THE WORSHIPPERS DISBANDED>

This is... probably improbable, but my whole post was leading up to this so we're doing this. The missing six Worshippers are the Whisperers that we've encountered throughout the game- leaving in order to either develop their relationship with or protect their creatures of choice.

The Bird Whisperer stayed close and remained in Prairie- and is probably the reason why Bird's Nest exists at all. The Jellyfish Whisperer remained as well, opting to stay in Sanctuary- the natural habitat of the jellyfish.

The Whale Whisperer ventured to Forest- where there probably once was a small population of Whales, given the corpse we see in the Bridge Area and the live Whale in the Underground Cavern.

The Manta Whisperer went to Valley- I'm guessing to see how mantas were being used for labor and competitions? And Valley is right next to Wasteland so I might be reaching but they could have been monitoring that too.

The Crab Whisperer is a tricky one because we see them travelling with the Lightseekers, and yes I am proposing that this lady was formerly a Worshipper. But because we're dealing with a creature that we now know is more dark than light, maybe the Crab Whisperer joined the Lightseekers in order to observe that phenomenon more closely? Because she does refer to the crabs as friends in her SkyShop poem. Wasteland wasn't always a... wasteland, after all. Things could have been different, and the crabs could have been adapting in a time where they would be relatively dangerous but not so much that an Ancestor couldn't approach them.

And then there's the Memory Whisperer. For this one, I don't think a spirit manta actually exists- at least, not as an organic creature and moreso just an interactive holograph courtesy of the machinations of Vault. I'm actually not too sure on what this person could have been doing, but they have a call- and my best guess is that the Memory Whisperer is one who listens to the last vestiges of light leftover by a creature- because we do see skeletons in Vault, and one is of a creature that looks like an amalgamation of several spirit mantas.

<WHY DON'T THE KRILL COUNT?>

As far back as Prophecy, Krill don't appear to be aligned with the light. They aren't depicted as former light creatures, nor a corrupted variant of an elder manta or whale- they are presented as thenselves in that Prophecy mural. Though I'm sure we'll get a Krill call later on, I'm not going to count them until then.

<CONCLUSION...?>

This huge post is... full of holes and heavy speculation, I'm aware. Mostly I just wanted to dump a bunch of shower thoughts and leftover lore I came up in the Discord lore chat. Go check it out sometime, I've derived a few points in this from interacting with people there. I'd love to hear your thoughts on this matter, by the way- it's fun theorizing! I haven't done this seriously in a long while.

[ordinaryschmuck]

What I Thought About "Knock Knock Knockin' on Hooty's Door" from The Owl House

Wow. They are really pushing it for that secret message, huh?

Anywho--Salutations, random people on the internet who certainly won’t read this! I am an Ordinary Schmuck. I write stories and reviews and draw comics and cartoons!

I think it goes without saying at this point that Season Two of The Owl House is setting itself up as a season without filler. Now, filler episodes aren't always bad. Yes, it hurts when a series turns away from the main plot for a week. But at best, they're utilized as a chance for the writers to play around with the characters and developing said characters without it relating to the overarching story. So, some people who see that consider it a bad thing that a series doesn't have that many filler episodes.

I like to call those people: F**king morons.

Don't get me wrong, I see where some of you are coming from. And I'd be willing to agree...if The Owl House was a plot-driven series. Which it's not. It is a character-driven series. Because for every plot thread and narrative that the show presents, they always relate to the characters and develop them further each time these threads get brought up. For example, look at "Knock Knock Knockin’ on Hooty's Door" (It pains me just to write that). Several narratives move forward, and it’s all done to make the characters grow. And to explain how requires going into spoilers. So keep that in mind as you continue reading.

Now, let's review, shall we?

WHAT I LIKED

Hooty: Might as well start with the character that this episode is about.

To tell you the truth, I wasn't a huge fan when I found out we're getting a Hooty-centered episode. I've grown to love him over time, but he is a comedic character that's best used in small doses. Primarily due to how his voice is grating to me (My ears are still bleeding...). With that said, I do really love his contributions in "Knock Knock Knockin' on Hooty's Door" (Seriously, there couldn't have been a less awkward title?). Hooty's antics when trying to help everyone are as hilarious as they are heartwarming. He deeply cares for his friends but just doesn't understand how his plans could do some unintended harm, which is pretty lovable if you ask me. We also get some surprisingly great insight into his character, as he feels insecure about basically being the comic relief who doesn't really do that much other than being funny. Rarely do you get that level of dimension from a comedic character, and it's even more uncommon for that to work out as well as it does here. It once again proves just how competent the writing is in this series to the point where we get an episode about Hooty, and it's funny and heartwarming instead of being annoying. And whoever is responsible for that, you're the best.

Lilith’s Letter to Hooty: I mean it when I say that I love how Lilith kept her word about her and Hooty becoming penpals. Their friendship was something I would have never expected to love, and I'm still shocked that it works so well, so seeing it continue like this just warms me to the bone. Plus, it is pretty sweet that Lilith's kind words are what inspired Hooty to do what he's done in this episode...meaning it's Lilith we should thank here--SON OF A WITCH! Even when she's gone, she's still working her way into my heart!

King going through Puberty: What?! KING IS EVOLVING!

(There, I made a Pokemon reference. Do I get my cookie now?)

Eda Keeping Herself Awake to Train Herself: I'm willing to bet a large sum of money that this has everything to with Raine getting captured last week. If Eda was still the most powerful witch in the Isles, she might have actually saved them. But she isn't, and now the love of her life is in the clutches of a tyrant planning something that could potentially be the end of everything. So I can understand Eda pushing herself to her limit to get back on top again, as I would probably do the same. It's not healthy in any way, and Eda would be doing more harm than good. But when it comes to the people you love, logic doesn't always win out in the end.

Luz Wanting to Make her Way into Amity’s Heart by Making the Echo Mouse Happy: ...That's it. I Just...I just love everything about it, ok?

This was also when I knew that I was wrong to doubt that there would be zero Lumity in this episode. I realize my follies now, and I humbly apologize.

Hooty Teaching King About Demons: This was so funny. So, so funny. Probably doesn't come as a surprise, especially since The Owl House proves itself as a comedy before, but the jokes have never hit as frequently and as hard as they did here. From Hooty getting offended by King's dance to him and Dana's insert wanting a "DNA sample," everything managed to successfully make me lose my s**t. It does come at the expense of King suffering, but I can stomach that much more than if it were Eda or Luz. And, as a bonus, we get lore about how demons work, added with another great joke of King getting in trouble with Hooty for saying he already knows this stuff. Humor isn't always the show's strong suit, but when it works, it f**king works.

King Wanting to Know What he Is: But despite how funny King's vignette was, we still get to see more of his character grow. We learn that he's frustrated now that there's this big question mark over his life now, feeling extra angry that his father "abandoned" him to leave such a present mystery. It shows the hidden resentment he has that Lilith inadvertently brought out, made even worse when King's father hasn't responded to the video yet. King hasn't really gotten that much development until "Echoes of the Past," so it's pretty cool that the writers haven't really slowed down on it. Especially when it leads to these great moments of King venting his frustrations.

King’s Shouting Powers: KING learned FUS RO DAH!

(And now that's a Pokemon reference AND a Skyrim reference. WHERE'S MY GOSH DANG COOKIE!?)

Eda’s Nightmare: If King's vignette hits you hard with the laughs, Eda's will absolutely hit you harder with the feels (never make me say "feels" unironically again). Knowing that Eda's life got thoroughly screwed over by the curse is something we could figure out on her own. But seeing just how much the curse ruined her life and tore apart relationships that mean the world to her really does a swell job at ripping apart the soul. What's even more tragic is, technically speaking, it's all sort of Eda's fault too. She kept hiding the curse, refusing to be a burden to others who would do all they could to help. If she had only been open and honest, things probably wouldn't have changed much, but they most likely would have been better than they are now.

Eda Attacked her Father as the Owl Beast: ...I don't know what I was expecting when "Keeping Up A-Fear-Ances" hinted that there was some possible tension between Eda and her father...but it definitely wasn't this.

The fact that we see blood where his eye used to be doesn't make things any happier, either.

Raine Broke Up with Eda: Before we get into anything else, let's celebrate the fact that it's now confirmed that Eda and Raine really did use to date in the past. Because this show is just f**king phenomenal with its LGBTQA+ representation!

But, seriously, this is a fantastic reveal that goes far beyond just shipping...well, sort of. It shines a new light on Eda and Raine's interactions from last week, revealing that while they're not a couple anymore, they still very much love each other. It helps make their last interaction especially tragic, as they were both on the same page now and could very well be together again. Only for them to be forced apart for the second time in a way that's much worse than the first. And I frickin' adore that this series changes the impact of one episode one week later. Again, it shows just how competent these writers are, and kudos to them for making something so...perfect.

The Moon Person: WHO THE FU--Nope. Nope! We have more than enough mystery bulls**t to deal with through CreepyLuz and Philip Wittebane, so I am PUTTING YOU ON THE BACKBURNER FOR NOW!

(They're probably nothing more than a one-off character, anyway)

The Owl Beast and Eda are Connected: Through visuals alone, we, the audience, can clue into what the curse really means. The Owl Beast doesn't want to be a part of Eda as much as she doesn't want it to be a part of her. Whether they like it or not, and they very much don't, they're stuck together. The thing is, and this is what I love the most, they still decide to make the best of their situation rather than let it ruin their lives even more. This might be the best possible turn Eda's curse could have made. It'll still affect her, and there are probably more negatives than positives, but at least now, it's not the worst thing in the world. And I feel like that's all anyone can ask when in a position like her own.

Eda's “Pretty Dream”: I don't know what emotions are toiling inside me more with this moment. Awe and wonder over how beautiful Eda's dream is, or heartbreak over the implication that she has only had nightmares since getting cursed...I'm gonna say both. Yeah, it's definitely both.

Eda’s Harpie Form: Well, fan artists are gonna have a field day with this...especially the freaks.

(You know who you are. And you're weird!)

Luz Calling Amity a “Cotton-Candy Haired Goddess”: ...Have I ever mentioned how much I love this show?

Hooty Kidnapped Amity: ...Hooty, if your stupidity wasn't charming, I would be more than willing to call the authorities over how you kidnapped a girl in your version of a knapsack and locked her in the basement. For that is going to ring SO MANY alarm bells in people's heads.

Amity and Luz Stuck in a Tunnel of Love: *Smacks lips* Mmm. The adorable awkwardness of this moment is just *chef's kiss* magnifique!

Luz being afraid of getting made fun of:

Amity’s look of hope: I mean...just...f**king--LOOK AT HER:

That is the look of a girl who, while embarrassed as hell, still is ecstatic to learn for a brief moment, everything that she is hoping for has a high chance of being real. Who, in their right mind, wouldn't go "Aw!" at something so pure and innocent?!

Luz Destroying the Tunnel of Love: This is how to effectively utilize dramatic irony. The audience can understand why Luz is tearing the place apart because she explicitly states that she's afraid of Amity rejecting her in the end. They also know that's bogus, thus making it extra painful to watch Amity's heart break more and more with each second (which is perfectly represented through Amity's expressions). You feel bad for both of them, and even worse when you know that it can easily be prevented by the simple art of communication. That's what makes it great dramatic irony. Knowing the point of view of each character results in a scene that evokes emotions in two different ways.

Hooty’s Breakdown: This was...genuinely hard to watch. Not that it was badly written, far from it. It just...hurt seeing how destroyed Hooty was when he realized he failed the people he has such an admiration for. On the upside, a wholesome moment follows soon after as the Owl House gang tries to reassure Hooty that he's done a lot of good that night. It's a pure action that shows even though Hooty gets on their nerves all the time, they still care about him...damn it. I think I'm gonna cry.

Eda’s Advice for Luz: ...Eda...You're the best.

You found out that your surrogate daughter wants to ask a girl out, and not only were you quick to deliver the best possible advice ("Just go for it!"), but you also quickly reassure her that it doesn't need to be perfect.

And you know what? That's it. Eda is the best cartoon mom! She might not technically be Luz's mom, but I don't give a s**t because she is the best!

Luz and Amity Ask Each Other Out: Shh-sh-sh-sh...

Do you hear that?

...

...

...It's the sound of dozens of Lumity fans collectively losing their s**t...and I'm one of them.

WAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!

HOO-HOO-HOO-HOO!

IT!

IS!

CANON!

AH-HAHAHAHAHA!

HOLY S**T! Holy s**t! Holy s**t...might just be the best way I could possibly describe this! Finally, after all the waiting, speculating, and praying, THESE TWO IDIOTS FINALLY GOT TOGETHER! AND IT WAS PERFECT! I mean, it was awkward as s**t, but that's what makes it perfect! You know why? You wanna--Hey! *snaps fingers*. You want to know why? It's because they're teenagers. Of f**king course, it's going to be awkward! This is their first relationship, so there will be a lot of missteps along the way. And that, in itself, brings me to the best (second best part?) thing about it happening in episode eight of the new seasons. Most endgame couples get together in the climax or even at the end of the series. But to have them get together this early on, means there will be quite a few episodes dedicated to showing them grow as a couple.

And better than that--EVEN F**KING BETTER THAN THAT--dozens of kids are going to see these two, a realistic depiction of young love that just so happens to involve two girls, and are going to learn once and for all that there is nothing wrong with being who they are. That fact alone is f**king incredible. Yes, it sucks that season three got cut short, and we'll have even less time with Luz and Amity, but knowing how many kids have felt seen today almost makes it worth it in the end.

And if I see one mother f**ker saying this was poorly paced, I might just hunt them down for SPORT...Sorry if that was an overreaction. I'M JUST SO HAPPY! Because they're happy! Look at them. Listen to them! It's so...GAH-HAHAHA!

“They’re adorable! And deserve all the happiness!”: You're darn right, Hooty! You're darn right.

King’s Father(?) Shows Up: What the--WHAT?! They're doing this now?! Here?! After everything else?

Oh, man. What could this mean? What dynamic changes will this cause in the main cast? How could the writers fit this in during the next two episodes? And what--

Hooty Eats the Letter: ...Pfffft--HAHAHAHA!

Oh, man...I should be mad, and I wouldn't blame others if they are...but that is too much of a brilliant f**k you that I can't help but appreciate it. Bravo writers. Bravo.

WHAT I DISLIKED

...Dislikes? Dislikes? You would honestly believe that after everything I witnessed in this episode, that I would have the gull to list anything wrong with it?!

HOW DARE YOU ASSUME THAT I WOULD BE SO CALLUS TO--Actually, I do kind of have an issue with the episode's title. It's just too much of an awkward mouthful for me to get behind. I understand that the writers wanted to sneak the K into the secret message, but were there really no other titles starting with K that they couldn't come up with?

But that's just a personal issue, and in no way do I think anybody else would feel the same way. Especially with how well-written everything else is anyway.

IN CONCLUSION

"Knock Knock Knockin' on Hooty's Door" (title aside) is another A+ episode. It was hilarious, heart-wrenching, and downright adorable while keeping me entertained with every minute. I'm sure there are some issues I was willing to ignore due to how expertly written everything else was, but why bother looking for the chinks in the armor when I could just enjoy a perfect episode for being so...perfect! Some of you might be willing to disagree with me, but to that, I say: Don't knock it till you've tried it.

(Now, if you don't excuse me, I'm going to go lie down. It's...It's been a day.)

[xo-alie-xo]

PORTWELL LONG GAME OR RINA SLOWBURN.

You can only choose one poison.🍷

Listen up my Wildcats.🐱

We all ship each character with happiness. No matter how much you love to hate them, a majority of us simply adores the characters and want the best for them. Then comes relationships and it's okay to ship our favorites.⛴

I'm a diehard Rina shipper and I know in my heart that they are series endgame. The set up, the natural chemistry, their mutual understanding, the surprises and angst literally put me on chokehold. So I'm 100% a Rina shipper till the end. I'm here for the slowburn and their development rather than one shots. They are worth the pain. 😭❤

Let me start with Ricky Bowen now.

Ricky shouldn't to be with Gina because he's hurting her mentality. He's not insensitive on purpose. Like when he tried to stop Big Red from telling her his message to Nina because he KNOWS it'll hurt her.

If you think, that Ricky didn't understand clearly when Gina confessed, think again. He shushed her. Kept their thing a secret from everyone. He knows he feels some type of way and she feels something too. But this boy is so used to safeguarding his childhood norms and has very little adaptability. Hence, he pretended to ignore everything between them because his home stability was falling apart and he clinged on to Nina, his constant childhood love.

He's a traumatised 16-17 year old boy that needs to heal and grow. This episode was heartbreaking because he had to accept that he had to let Nina go because their once upon a time fairytale had become toxic.

People change. I'm not the same person I was when I was 16 lmao. Being together as childhood lovers means growing together and accepting each other's growth. Which Ricky couldn't. He clutched to the idea of Nini. Even his love confession. It was sooo sweet but all he did was focus on their history.

This boy needs time to heal and maybe seek professional therapy. It would be so DAMN HISTORIC if Disney decides to take psychological issues seriously and show how he's dealing with his anxiety, pills and psychotherapy. He needs to breathe before he can be with any girl for that matter. He's hurting and isn't trying to hurt anyone on purpose. Including Gina.

Him asking her for advice on Nini was a dumb, insensitive move. But he's trying to find a way to build some supportive friendship that they shared in early season one.

As for now, this boy needs to get his own grip on life and heal.

As for our Queen Gina

In Gina's confession, she focuses on their future. She basically said, "I wouldn't quit on a possible future of us being together despite obstacles. Because I never quit. But moving away isn't in my control." Ricky deep down knows this, encouraged her to say it, teary eyed, despite right after getting back together with Nini. Gina is his future. She went to his new house. And I also have this feeling that when she was given a chance to stay, she stayed partly because of Ricky. She left a chance to be with her mom because she prioritised their relationship. Because she never quits. 💪🏼

But she came back and found out Ricky has gotten back together with Nini.😭 What she doesn't know is Ricky got together with Nina before her confession, and after Gina kept dodging his messages. She's hurt and questions why she returned because she isn't particularly close to anyone. Hence, she was so silent at the after party. She thinks it'll be fine, "she'll live", and finds other reasons to find permanence. Her arc this season has been settling down in East High, despite the pain of losing and being 'betrayed' by Ricky, she finds other reasons to stay. 🏡

This kind of contrasts her with Nina. Nina left her dream school and came to Salt Lake because she missed her established home, and not just because of Ricky. Nina returned and was loved and embraced by Ricky Bowen.💕 Gina came back to a semi new place called Salt Lake because of her promise of a future to Ricky. But she got stabbed and she bled. 💔🗡

Think about her situation. She feels confused, alone, heartbroken, out of place and seperated from her mom. She's broken and hurting too. And she doesn't need more from Ricky's accidental or intentional 'sick burns'. That's the one line where he was such a jerk and I can't defend him here. 😠

Here comes the Caswells.

Her second family. A place of healthy stability. A home that accepted her. Ashlyn, her roomie and her confidante. EJ, the misunderstood boy who saw her value and bought her plane ticket.

Let's get to EJ.

At first, I wasn't too keen on seeing Portwell's development. But then that video chat where they talk about the possibility of her staying and him convincing her. Had me sold for a solid brother-sister relationship. Few episodes later, when Gina's pain seemed to be oblivious to everyone, he was the only one who asked her how she was, and saw her glow. The comfort she must've felt.

Not that she needs a man's validation, but she must be feeling like a second choice and feeling a little insecure because of Ricky. But EJ lifts her up and I genuinely saw her smile. This boy has her back whenever. The man she can lean on and truly sees how special she is. She no longer feels alone now that she has his entire fam and other friends. She genuinely feels a place of belonging and happiness when she's the apple of his eye. Notice how happy she is? How happy this boy is? She's going through her own issues and she has found ground with EJ.

I was very doubtful when they started hinting at a romantic direction. Because EJ would be used as plot device again for a girl to get to Ricky.😤 This man doesn't deserve to be second best to anyone, just like Gina.😑 That's why I'm still hesitant on shipping them at least temporarily. EJ needs to be something even more special to Gina. They need to show each other how special and treasured they are to each other despite feeling like rejects. They are each other's source of comfort.

I'm sure they can keep EJ at East High for the next season. Whether it's the drama club, or the AV club or going to a local college. So he will be there for Gina. I don't know how they can work out a relationship with much distance as Rini's fell out when she moved away. So, if EJ leaves again, it'll again shake up Gina. Her being worried whether he'll date college girls, second thoughts, etc. I don't want them to go through that. And if they do move on to romantic Portwell, make sure it's not plot device for Rina. So you can either have Portwell endgame or Rina Endgame.

Basically I want Gina to be treated so right that she understands she doesn't need Ricky. And when he does ask her out, and he makes her feel like a second choice or a rebound, she says NO. Because EJ has helped regain her self assurance. Eventually I want Gina to confide in EJ about her and Ricky. EJ is jealous but also angry about how Ricky has been hurting her. And becomes damn protective of his 'babe'. Ricky gets jealous of their relationship, restarting Ricky and EJ's old rivalry. But this time, it's not because Gina is his girlfriend, but because she's EJ's best friend who he has a crush on and wants what's best for her.

If it's meant to be Rina endgame

EJ- RICKY, YOU IDIOT! You have no clue how to treat her right. You don't put her first. You mislead her. Get the hell away from her! She's too powerful and beautiful, she doesn't deserve your scraps. I know how she feels for you. I wish I were you. I would treat her like a queen. I don't mind even waiting years till she's ready. She deserves that. You're so lucky you have even a small chance that I may never have. So get your act together, prove you're worth it to win her over. All I want is for her to be happy. Even if it's with someone else. And maybe then I'll stop threatening you to stay away from her.😠

Ricky- .....I don't know what I'm more scared of. Change, or losing the girl I fell for or YOU. Okay, losing her but you're a close second.😬

If it's Portwell endgame.

Ricky- I messed up. Make sure you don't mess up with her. You'll regret it forever.

EJ- I'd rather get hit by thousand basketballs than ever hurt her. I'll be her plus one and her best friend until she's ready to be with me. I know she's ready now too. But I want her to know I'm willing to wait till she graduates before we make it official. I'm in it for the long game.

As for their age gap. I'm 100% sure Portwell won't kiss this season. If they do, it'll be next when Sofia turns 18. They are professional actors who are cast because they are the perfect fit for the role and are expected to carry out the storyline. But I suppose fearing some outbursts, they might delay Sofia kissing anyone till next season. It's so weird because Olivia was maybe 17 when Matt was 21-22 when they kissed in season one. But no one had a problem with that. But for this, they do. Remember, they are professional actors. They are acting! Sometimes, actors are over 10 years apart (but above 18) and act as romantic partners.

As for their characters, they are only two years apart. That's hardly any difference once you're over the age of 18. Age of consent is 16. But adults above 18 are only allowed to have sex with adults above 18. So, age isn't a problem here because EJ is a gentleman and is genuinely interested in her and isn't trying to get in her pants. So age isn't the issue when it comes to dating. It's the maturity. Gina is very mature and gives very sound advice. But I can see EJ being patient enough till she turns 18 just to kiss her because he loves her. 😚

As for the Ashlyn remark, "You look like a kid to me rn". He was JOKING.😂 Don't take things out of context. I tell my cousin sister that all the time. But she's three years younger than me and a grown adult. I don't see her as a kid but it's just a cousin teasing her younger cousin that's she's a little immature. I'm Matt's age and I'm very mature for my age and since I was a teenager, I always matched up with boys a little older than me. Now that I'm in my early 20s, I've dated boys even close to 30. So age is just a number.

EJ dating Gina and giving her quick kisses is fine. But to have a strong sexual element in their relationship (including making out), he'll have to wait till she's 18+. And I'm sure for that he'll wait till she's ready even past her early 20s. Age is really just a number and we can't help who we fall in love with. Trust me, I've been there.😂 So I can see EJ feeling conflicted about his feelings that are clear at this point.

They might not be a perfect fit, but they make each other sooo happy. They deserve a lot more than a short lived fling.😟 They are either endgame or Rina is. You can't have both as a Rina unless you're an EJ hater who wants him to exist as plot device. Nope! He's sooo much more precious than that.

But Jack on the other hand....I'm okay if he's the one to make Ricky or EJ jealous. Because he's just been introduced and it's okay if a character is used, but only once, for someone else to realize their feelings. 💁🏽‍♀️

In short.

Ricky needs help and needs to be on his own. No girlfriends allowed.🙅🏽‍♀️🚫

Needs to give both Gina and Nina space for them to grow on their own too.🌳

Ricky needs to understand the core of his problems and become more adaptable via therapy. Maybe the psychologist will point out his unresolved feelings for Gina, or he will conclude it himself. And in comes Ricky-pining-for-Gina season three.

Ricky needs to fully get over Nina before he moves on to anyone. Same for Gina if Portwell were to happen. No one deserves to be second choice.

Gina isn't Ricky's cushion. She's a living person with strong feelings for him and shouldn't be subjected to share his pain. She already struggles with her own issues.

Ricky needs to stay single till he wins back Gina and prove he's worth it. He needs to show even if another girl wants him, he'll never quit on Gina ever again. Even if he has to watch her be with someone else. *cough parallels*.

It's either romantic Rina then Portwell endgame OR Portwell flirty besties but Rina endgame. You and I can choose only one because my boy EJ shouldn't be used as plot device for a girl to leave for Ricky ever again.

Portwell's age difference can be practically solved and isn't much of an issue unless they get hot and heavy before Gina turns 18 which is impossible considering this is Disney. 🤣🤣

Jack and Gina will be plot device material and purely so sentimental to us OG Andi Mack fans. More than any ship, this is what I'm looking for. Sort of an Andi Mack crack ship for season 3a. It's gonna be soooo funny. 😍😂

I respect everyone's ship. I see what you're seeing. And I'm not going to invalidate your ship. But unless it's done right, I won't jump from the Rina ship. I liked Rini. I like Portwell. I like AU Juffy crackship haha.😂 But as for me, I'm still holding on to Rina slowburn.

Preparing myself for the pain. 😭🔥

(But if I had to pair two characters without Disney getting in the way, it would be Gini. The power duo. Undeniable chemistry. They can be written so well because of their layered relationship and contrasting personalities.🤩 The classic rivals to friends to lovers. But that's a talk for another day lmao.)

Thanks for reading my opinion, Wildcat!🐱❤

[diavolosthots]

Wooooh requests, can i ask some fluf, like for some odd reason MC know the brothers/ underlings from some "accident", Before arriving to devildoom. I mean they had demonic affairs on earth and they ran into MC. I don't know if you explain. If you don't understand what I mean, I can describe it to you or you can ignore it.

I THINK i understood, but if this aint it, I'm sorry chief 💀

THE BROTHERS recognizing MC

Lucifer:

It wasn’t that he exactly remembers you, per se. It’s more that your face looked familiar. He knows for a fact he has never been directly involved with you, so he pushed it off as a passing face. Turns out, it actually was something like that. He was running errands for Lord Diavolo, of course, and he just happened to see you in a little coffee shop. Nothing Major, but your brightly colored T-Shirt stood out to him in the moment, which is why he turned his head in the first place. It’s nothing he will bring up in conversation, unless you ask something and it just leads to the topic. Until then, he just hopes your bright shirt matches your personality. 

Mammon:

Funny story actually; your parents were greedy lil shits and summoned him for some extra cash. Maybe that’s why he’s always broke? Anyway! You were pretty young, and lucky him that you didn’t change that much at all, besides getting older. He might joke about it with you, if you’re chill. If that’s something that traumatised you, then… well not his problem! Kids shouldn’t be at a demon deal anyway! Either way, he will remind you that he truly was your first.

Leviathan:

Oh that’s easy; he remembers seeing you at comic con! Back then, he thought your costume was pretty much the coolest around and he secretly swooned over it. Envy entered the chat room when he saw you were the new exchange student and one of the biggest reasons he gave you the cold shoulder was because he’s still salty that you got the costume down to every detail and he suddenly felt self conscious about his own back then. He will never admit his true thoughts though! You won’t get that out of him!

Satan:

Much like Lucifer, it’s not like he ever actually met you. He was out, scaring some people on Halloween or something, you know, ditching Lord Diavolo’s birthday party for literally anything else, and you happened to be one of the kids he scared. You were pretty young back then, maybe three or four, and he doubts you actually remember him, but boy he will never forget that scared face you gave him. Truly a thrill, although you thought differently back then. Maybe he should try to scare you again now? See if his old tricks still work?

Asmodeus:

Simple; you either accidentally and unbeknownst to you photobombed one of his selfies he took on earth, or he saw you in a magazine once. Maybe you modeled as a kid? Whatever it is, you seem familiar, and that intrigues him even more. He’s trying so hard to remember, but he also keeps getting distracted, so how about you help a demon out here? Do you remember his gorgeous face as well? Of course you would! There’s nothing like it. Asmo forgets that just because he might have seen you, doesn’t mean you necessarily saw him.

Beelzebub:

Realistically speaking, there’s no way you could’ve seen him anywhere in your life. He simply doesn’t remember leaving the Devildom, like, at all. But then again.. Maybe he accidentally slipped up? Maybe they went up there for human food for a birthday or something? A trip to the park? In all honesty, he’s just as baffled as you are, because he does remember you, but he seriously doesn’t remember how.

Belphegor:

Much like Beel, he has trouble remembering. However, he easily explains it to himself, whether this is true or not, only God knows. He sometimes slips into the dreams of people, either giving them nightmares or even going outside the dreams and waking them up with a nice case of sleep paralysis. Could he have done that to you? Possibly. To him, that’s the only possible way that he knows you because he absolutely refused to interact with humans otherwise. 

[kachuuyaa]

##MELANCHOLY'S INTOXiCATiON — genshin impact

g.i, kaeya, fic? drabble?

1CHARACTER; KAEYA

2GENRE; fluff? i dunno

3INCLUDES; alcohol, kaeya being drunk, kaeya, reader being sick and tired Damn u just want to sleep, u playing the piano because youre a Good Friend 🤣💥😲⁉️😲

4AUTHOR’S NOTES ?! sometimes i want to hug kaeya sometimes i want to punch him 😘🤨 love him though he’s just an asshole sometimes your honor

5SYNOPSIS; was it intoxication that led them to you? They say you succumb to impulsiveness when you drink, but was it really impulsiveness when they showed up at your doorstep? In which, they stumble onto your house, inebriated and miserable. out of pity, (at least, that's what you say) you lay them on your couch and play a piano piece for them. Since when did you play the piano?

..WAS IT A HARD DAY FOR HIM? HE himself didn't know. Whatever it is, it ended up being one of those nights. his breathing unstable, head down low, fingers entangling a glass of the famous Death After Noon. His memories, however, are what he's trying to forget for the night (as always, but really, he wouldn't admit it.) but, much to his displeasure, while he was trying to drown his life away with his drinks, his memories decide to drown him in. Kaeya liked to call himself confident and exceptional, but with you, his confidence seemed to lessen. How dare you, he thinks, familiar yet in denial with these feelings, how dare you make me able to feel such things, he thinks again, he blames you, it's a daily thing for him now, whenever his emotions go haywire, when he looks at you and feels— nervous, at first, why would he feel nervous? He knew the answer already. Although Kaeya Alberich, ever the cunning liar, thinks—oh, no, he knows, that it's but a crush. Now, though? Oh, how you've swept said Cavalry Captain, he's absolutely smitten for you, and he wonders if you are too. He doesn't know, nor he doesn't care how many ounces he has drunk, but it seems enough for him to get sent out by his beloved brother. A scowl printed on the redhead's face, snatching his brother's cup when he was about to order— again. Seriously, when he's in love, (was that the right word to describe it, now?) he managed to get more annoying, that doesn't make him less irresistible. (at least, that's what he thinks.) Diluc only sighs, however, concern replacing his aloof demeanor. they weren't on the best of terms, per se— scratch that, they weren't on good terms. Have you ever seen Diluc without his scowl whenever his eyes land on Kaeya? "Go home, Kaeya." Diluc warns, but Kaeya only smiles, "Is dear brother worried for me?" He says, slurred— but his stepbrother was able to notice the slight tease on his tone. He clicked his tongue, turning away, to revel in the light the moon provided. It's almost like the sky, the gods, were mocking the cavalry captain. His periwinkle eye shines under the twilight, making his face a sight to those who noticed. He grunts, standing up from his seat, legs a bit wobbly due to the amount of drinking he had done. a few crack of his joints, he managed to stand up straight— for a few seconds, that is. He turns around, back to where his stepbrother was last seen, "See you soon, brother, goo— ah," he spoke, a pained click of his tongue was heard; he gained a headache. "Good night." He managed to voice out, stepping out of the tavern, footsteps uneven and vision blurred. He could only imagine a faint "take care of yourself, Kaeya." from Diluc.

A knock on your door, who could it be? At this hour, as well? [Name], ever the overthinker. Capable of replacing Kaeya's position on the Knights Of Favonius, do you think? You really did not have the energy to tend to anyone today. Although you really didn't do anything today, let's gloss over that. The moon— reminds you of that periwinkle eye that never seems to leave your figure. You weren't an idiot, you knew, but what you didn't know, was did he know that you know? He didn't, actually. He tried being subtle; he thought he was being subtle. He was described as observant, yet he still doesn't know that he's not being subtle; was it on purpose? You didn't know, and yet, you can't find yourself to care. You just needed confirmation. To be fair, when you dream about him and when he manages to have the key to your heart, does that mean you love him? Another knock, this time, louder. Letting out a 'tch' in frustration, you get up, walking to the door as slowly as possible. Was it cruel, to make the unexpected and definitely unwanted visitor wait for a while? To you, obviously not. You were about to sleep, for fucks' sake. Turning the doorknob, You were met with quite an unexpected sight. Kaeya, the man you were thinking about just a few moments ago, slumped on the wall near your door, clothes disheveled, lips stained with what you could make out as wine, hair tousled, some strands falling on his face, a slight blush on his cheeks— something you have never seen before, and his hands were placed on his forehead. He was heavily breathing and seemed to have put your attention on you when you oh so softly called out his name. "Hello, darling," the pet name rolled off his tongue before he could prevent it. Was this man trying to kill you? If he is, he's doing a damn good job. (just like he always is.) with his noticeable, yet unique eyes boring into your own, his features being illuminated, courtesy of the moonlight. Quickly snapping out of your thoughts, you turned to the man looking at you. "Why.." you made a circling motion with your pointer finger, to which Kaeya chuckled at. His voice, raspy, entered your ears and led you to the conclusion that he was, once again, drunk. "I think you have an idea, princess." He said, the pet name once again leaving his mouth. You could feel your face heating up, however, that was the least of your concerns. "Anyways.." He trailed off, cocking his head to the door, "Are you gonna let me in?" He really didn't want to entertain any questions relating to why he came to your house instead of his, (once again, he decides to blame it on his feelings-- on you) but he decides to play along; that's what he does best, no?

You reluctantly let him in, hearing a relieved ‘thank you’ from the blue-haired man. Contemplating whether to make him sleep on the couch or in the guest bedroom— did you even have one? You forgot the interior of your house due to how tired you are. Not that you were complaining, thinking makes your head hurt on nights like these. in the middle of your internal monologue, Kaeya made himself comfortable on your couch; a squeak was heard when he was shifting. You quickly shifted your gaze to the man who is now in front of you. Silence fills the canvas that is the sky and your living room. "Remove your accessories," You mumble, hoping that he would hear it. He flicked his head to you, smirking, "At least take me out for drinks," He teased, and you couldn't help but deadpan at him. Oh, you’re taking him out alright. With a sword. Although intoxicated, his teasing was still unrelenting. He obeyed you, either way, taking off his cape, (was it a cape? it looks like so.) and his pelt of fur, placing them carefully on the small coffee table in front of him. Then, his boots came off as well. "Enjoying the view, hm?" He cooed, locking his eyes with yours, and you let out an amused hum, unfazed by his antics. "Right," you really don't want to deal with this today. It's late at night, and this Cavalry Captain decided to barge into your doorstep. You didn't want to ask why, though, he'll tease you relentlessly while avoiding the topic. You grabbed some spare pillows and blankets from your other room. Internally clicking your tongue and cursing him out in your mind, you halted your footsteps when you saw him sleeping. His mouth was slightly agape and his legs were (long, was your first thought) bent so he could fit on your couch. Snickering to yourself, you gently lifted his head up to put the pillow below him, and a blanket on top of him. Thinking about it, you doubted the reason why he came here was to bring false hope. To make you believe that you actually had the chance to be with the Kaeya Alberich, the proclaimed bachelor of Mondstadt. You knew how many people would kill to be in your place right now, but that, you could care less about. Kaeya was unpredictable; you knew. You kept learning new things about him every day, but to others, it may seem that he could read you like the back of your hand. He wasn't wrong, nor was he right, but the things you do are sometimes predictable, some even more so than others. You surprise him, you really do; you could learn things and adapt to certain situations in a snap, and that was probably what allured him. You were attractive, it was obvious, it doesn't take a genius to see that, but what attracted him was the personality you never showed to people. It was a privilege to Kaeya, to him, at least. You sighed, walking towards your grand piano in the center of the living room, light reflecting from its material. You made sure your footsteps were soft so as not to disturb the man on your couch, and you sat down. A melody won't hurt, would it?

your fingers worked their way to the keyboard, and then, you play. Your fingers were like weavers— skilfully weaving a masterpiece and satisfying its client, and you— clearly you weren't going to fail such powerful pianists, now would you? You were painting a canvas using your fingers, pressing on its keys ever so gently; the music traveling with the wind. You had a natural talent for piano, it was obvious, you never had a hard time implementing piano pieces onto your head. Your fingers were single-handedly forming a story on their own on the piano, pressing onto its tiles and carefully playing each note. Kaeya, on the other hand, was never asleep. This was one of the moments where you never fail to surprise him. Piano? Since when were you able to play such an instrument? You never mentioned such a thing to him, nor to anyone he could recall. Could he say that this melody you were playing, just for him, made him fall even harder? It was a pit that he could never escape, he realized that. Maybe the reason why he was here was that he was looking for you. He knew that he loved you, he's not denying it anymore. Who knew that such a simple piece could impact someone's thoughts—

Kaeya's thoughts? Simple, because it was you who was playing it, you, the person who he has fallen in love with, who never fails to make his heart race even when you just spare a glance at him, and you, who has amazed him in more ways than one. He slept soundly to the tune of your melody, dreaming about you, and he wondered, are you dreaming about him too?

26052021 , © kachuuyaa | do not claim my work as your own.

not proofread.

[madara-fate]

I also wasn't insinuating that MinaKushi or DanTsu are the only good examples of good romantic relationships (I don't even care about these pairing for the record, or any other pairing in Naruto). I'm just pointing out that people do not doubt that Minato loves Kushina or that Dan loves Tsunade. If Sasuke genuinely loved Sakura and Kishimoto did a good job at showing it, then there would not be a huge debate on whether he does love her or not, because it would be obvious to pretty much everyone that he does, whether they like the ship or not. The fact that it's not and that so many people still debate on this to this day either shows that Kishimoto did a poor job at showing Sasuke as a loving husband either that Sasuke does not love her, despite that "love is the real deal" line or his reply to Sarada's question. It's show vs tell if you know what I mean. On one hand he tells us that "love is the real deal" but on the other hand he does not really show it all too well, which makes many people think whether he truly meant those words or he was being sarcastic and simply mocked the fans. It's either a case of bad writing either Sasuke simply does not love Sakura. I personally don't know what to think. I tend to lean towards the first option, it may just be bad writing after all. He admitted he's not great at writing romance and to be honest? It shows. It is even implied they haven't kissed in Gaiden by Sakura looking sad when Sarada asked her if they ever kissed. And I know you like to refute that by saying that it's preposterous to think they haven't kissed when they obviously had sex in order to concieve Sarada, but the thing is, it is entirely possible to have sex with someone but not kiss. It really is. When you're having sex but you're not really enjoying it or when you have simply been pressured and pestered into having sex with a person. Sakura Hiden confirmed the fact that Sakura was determined to confess her feelings to Sasuke over and over again until he would've eventually reciprocated. She compared that with punching a villain over and over until they're defeated. Now please tell me, would it be so far fetched to consider that harassment? If someone tells you no once, you have to respect their rejection and stop pursuing them, not take it as a challenge to persist in reaffirming your feelings over and over again until they eventually get tired or take pity in you and accept to give you a chance. And even in Gaiden it was confirmed that Sakura had to chase after Sasuke. It's really easy to see this ship as... problematic, to say the least. I'm willing to give it the benefit of the doubt tho and blame it on bad writing rather than on Kishimoto simply implying SS is not really a loving relationship, but if other people are not convinced or deny that Sasuke loves Sakura, you have to let your bias aside and admit that they have reasons to believe that. The writing makes it really easy to interpret it either way, depending on your preferences.

I already answered a lot of the points you made here in my response to your previous ask, but it's important for people to remember the type of person Sasuke is, and understand that the manner in which he shows affection isn't the same as Dan or Minato. It's a lot more subtle. Are people doubting that Vegeta loves Bulma and Trunks? No, so then people need to ask themselves - in which ways has Vegeta demonstrated that he loves his family in ways that Sasuke hasn't? Both of them aren't outwardly affectionate, both of them aren't romantic, but both of them have undoubtedly demonstrated that they love their family. Yet, only one of them is questioned. It really is just a "damned if you do and damned if you don't" situation. If Sasuke acts all affectionate like Dan and Minato, people will claim that he's OOC (like they did for Sasuke Retsuden), but if he stays reserved and demonstrates affection in his own way, people will just turn a blind eye and say he doesn't care. It really just shows how little they actually know Sasuke's character. To think that Sasuke, who hails from the clan which values love above all else, would marry and start a family with someone he doesn't love.

On one hand he tells us that "love is the real deal" but on the other hand he does not really show it all too well, which makes many people think whether he truly meant those words or he was being sarcastic and simply mocked the fans.

People actually think that Kishi may have been "sarcastic" when he described their love as the real deal. Oh my goodness. Why would Kishi purposely give wrong information to the readers (and never reveal what's actually going on)? Why would he intentionally want the readers to misunderstand his story and characters? Why would he want to portray his 2nd biggest character as someone who would enter a loveless marriage when that literally goes against the ways of his clan and his entire character? Do people not listen to themselves?

It's like how so many people claim that Sasuke saying "because you exist" means that the only reason he and Sakura are still together is because of Sarada, and people really don't realise how stupid that sounds. They don't stop and ask themselves why Sarada would be brought to happy tears, why Chouchou would describe her as lucky, and why Naruto would give her a knowing smile, if Sasuke had really just insinuated that she was the only thing that was keeping her parents together:

They just don't think. They apparently believe that Chouchou was happily thinking to herself "aww, lucky Sarada, you're the only thing keeping your parents together!", and that makes sense to them apparently, Chouchou being so happy for Sarada after hearing such awful news. It's unbelievable.

And I know you like to refute that by saying that it's preposterous to think they haven't kissed when they obviously had sex in order to conceive Sarada, but the thing is, it is entirely possible to have sex with someone but not kiss. It really is. When you're having sex but you're not really enjoying it or when you have simply been pressured and pestered into having sex with a person.

This is just like the people who believe that Sasuke is gay, justifying their ridiculous claims by pointing out how "you can be gay and still marry a woman", and to that I always say - Why would Sasuke do that? Just like to you I'll say - Why would Sasuke do that? To have sex and not kiss? Why would Sasuke of all people be "pressured and pestered" into entering a relationship with someone? He obviously has no problem whatsoever with bluntly turning people down. If he doesn't want to do something, he's not gonna do it. Heck, if you're using Sakura Hiden to try and prove your points then I'll also use a novel to prove this one - The lipstick stain scene during Sasuke Shinden: The Teacher's Star Pupil, explicitly indicates that Sakura and Sasuke had kissed earlier that day. The motorbike scene during Naruto Retsuden has Sakura kiss Sasuke. Sasuke and Sakura having kissed, is not (and has never been) a topic that's open to discussion.

Sakura Hiden confirmed the fact that Sakura was determined to confess her feelings to Sasuke over and over again until he would've eventually reciprocated. She compared that with punching a villain over and over until they're defeated. Now please tell me, would it be so far fetched to consider that harassment? If someone tells you no once, you have to respect their rejection and stop pursuing them, not take it as a challenge to persist in reaffirming your feelings over and over again until they eventually get tired or take pity in you and accept to give you a chance. And even in Gaiden it was confirmed that Sakura had to chase after Sasuke.

I've already talked at length about that scene from Sakura Hiden so I won't do so again here, but I'll link the relevant post where I explained how that scene obviously was not meant to be taken as a negative comment, but people will of course just twist things in order to suit their own anti Sakura/SS agenda.

But if other people are not convinced or deny that Sasuke loves Sakura, you have to let your bias aside and admit that they have reasons to believe that. The writing makes it really easy to interpret it either way, depending on your preferences.

No, here's what people need to understand. If people think that Sasuke's love towards Sakura was not adequately shown, then that's a reason to criticise the writing. It is not however, a reason to deny what is canon. They are stating that Sasuke does not love Sakura, despite the fact that this has explicitly been stated. Sasuke loving Sakura is a canon fact, whether they like it or not. Criticise the execution all you want, I know I have plenty of times, but don't deny the truth. Hell, since you wanted to use the novels...

During Sakura Hiden, Sasuke rushed back for Sakura's sake, despite having ignored the village's prior pleas for help. What does that say about his feelings for her?

During Akatsuki Hiden, Sasuke described Sakura as "The Spring Sunshine" which illuminated his dark life. What does that say about his feelings for her?

What does basically the entirety of Sasuke Retsuden say about his feelings for her?

Many anti SS fans are always so quick to use the novels when it suits them. And then when a novel like Sasuke Retsuden comes along and completely shits over all their theories, they're just as quick to dismiss the novel as an OOC fan fic by a sub par author, figures. As far as I'm concerned, the manga is more than enough to show that Sasuke loves his family (seriously this really isn't up for debate), but I'll also definitely say that anyone who criticises SS and uses the novels as a point of reference, is in way over their heads.