#and i don’t know why! like was that misha collins intent???

[charcubed]

Celebrities’ sexualities/relationships, and what not to post where

I’m going to make an all-purpose, general post about this topic, because it seems like there’s value in making one. Anyone who’s been following me here or on Twitter long enough has seen me address this before but often in specific scenarios, but y’know what... let me just make a general all-purpose post too just to lay this out for the sake of my own sanity.

We all know this is a thing: people like to speculate on celebrities’ sexualities and/or participate in “real person fiction” (RPF), and that’s been happening since the dawn of fandom. On some level, I understand why; it's exciting to think a celebrity might be queer especially if YOU are. We all want role models & we all want that to be normalized, etc... and sometimes it’s a case of “like recognizes like”; queer people can spot other queer people. But whether or not one is “correct” doesn’t matter, and either way, celebrities' lives are not for our consumption. They do not exist for our entertainment or speculation. This kind of talk can get out of hand very quickly in a way that ruins the lives of real people. 

So I am here to remind people to be mindful of what you say about celebrities, where you say it, and HOW you say it too.

For example: under no circumstances should you openly post things about celebrities’ sexuality or relationships on Twitter.

If you know this already, cool! Great! Good! Keep scrolling! But not everyone does know this, and either way, it’s always a good reminder–especially because people can get excited in the heat of a moment and these principles can easily accidentally fly out of the window.

Not all social media is “equal” or carries the same weight of potential real world consequence. Tumblr, for example, tends to influence little outside of here as long as the topic in question stays on Tumblr; AO3 fic stays on AO3, or at least it should. But Instagram comments or tweets do not exist in a vacuum or echo chamber the way people often seem to think, and often route back to the celebrities in question in harmful ways. Those platforms are open to the wider world in a way that can translate to very real consequence for the people being discussed.

What do I mean by that? A good example of how things can get unintended attention is what happened recently when memes about Misha Collins and Bill Clinton got out of hand, made their way to Twitter, and resulted in journalists writing articles that Misha felt he needed to address. On a more related note, recently Brie Larson made one offhand gay joke/reference in a personal Youtube video; it then trended worldwide and resulted in many articles too. There is now, unfortunately, high potential that she could be asked about and pressured about her sexuality in interviews in future. Did any of the people tweeting about those topics expect that to happen? Probably not, and yet it did. But these are good examples of how Twitter algorithms have vastly shifted, and keyword use is enough for things to easily and quickly trend outside of fandom’s intentions or control in ways that cause harm.

Putting any celebrities’ personal lives under a microscope, whether unintentionally or otherwise, is never a good idea. But it’s especially not a good idea when it comes to sexualities or personal relationships.

People will say “Shipping is just in the fandom! We know how to behave! What’s the problem? It’s never gone wrong before.” The problem is multilayered, but here are the main issues: the fact that nothing “bad” has happened before does not mean it never will. You can control your behavior, but you cannot control how other people–especially people who are new to your fandom–may or may not behave on the wider internet surrounding the topic of people's personal lives. Posting about it on main on somewhere like Twitter also inherently runs the risk of other outside parties seeing it, being like “what’s all this then?” and then picking it up and running with it further–whether that be ~haters~ or journalists.

People will also say “These celebrities know about this kind of fandom talk and they don’t care!” or “If the celebrities wanted us to stop this, they’d have said something by now!” To that I say: those are a lot of assumptions, when the only “assumption” one should realistically make is that we don’t know celebrities personally, we don’t know if they may or may not be actually closeted/unlabeled (which is their right!), and we don’t know what may make them uncomfortable while other things may not. The absence of "no" or "stop" isn't equivalent to "yes," nor is it citable as defense for questionable or potentially harmful behavior. Silence isn't blanket approval or consent, nor should it be assumed to be in any situation. Just because celebrities haven’t said in so many words “Please stop doing [this specific thing]” doesn’t mean they are automatically cool with whatever a fandom is doing, such as speculating about them or openly pointing out what they think they know about their sexualities or relationships. This includes posts on the wider timeline, or tweets and Instagram comments @ celebrities themselves filled with references or assumptions about their lives that are very not okay.

Even with something like Brie Larson’s situation... A celebrity making a joke or acting a certain way in one environment where they may feel comfortable or more relaxed–like a Youtube video, or a convention with fans, or anything else–does not mean that that celebrity expects or wants worldwide eyes on their behavior. And worldwide attention is what is always at risk on platforms like Twitter or Instagram. 

Ultimately, overanalyzing and calling attention to people’s actions is how people who are allies can be made to feel awkward, or how people who are queer get outed or forced into labels. I literally live in fear of the day when some random journalist starts poking around specific fandoms/celebrities, connects the dots that are out there and are seemingly easy to connect, and then somehow makes their sexuality a topic of interviews. Once it becomes a Topic, it becomes nearly unavoidable for them. That’s what happened to Lee Pace; it’s how many people are forced to come out. At all times, queer celebrities are a stone’s throw away from having to deal with all of that in ways no one should, especially as they get more famous. If you care about any celebrity you like to talk about, or if you care about the privacy of real people at all in the ways you should (especially potentially queer people), this should be a point of concern for you.

So, in conclusion: be mindful. If you must talk about celebrities’ lives on something like Twitter, do it without using their actual names to avoid keywords, because they trend at the drop of a hat out of nowhere and that can ruin lives. Avoid deliberate repetition in your phrases because that’s how accidental trends are made. And, better yet, honestly? Consider just keeping that kind of talk to Tumblr/AO3, and preferably to personal private messages. 

Your ability to fangirl/squee/celebrate a real person’s life is not more important than their right to privacy. Ever. This is not a petty topic and it is not “fandom policing” to say things like this out of concern. Acting from an abundance of caution is always the better way to go, because you lose nothing by being extra vigilant; the alternative of not being cautious enough comes with a high risk of negative consequence.

If we all just operate under the knowledge that talking about real people can translate to real consequences for real lives, and act with an abundance of respect/caution accordingly, then there will be nothing to worry about. And celebrities will get to live their private lives and (if this is applicable) be the authors of their own coming out journeys as they see fit, which is a right everyone should have.

From the bottom of my heart: just use both your empathy and your brain cells, please.

[mishhasgrace]

Let’s Talk

Okay..... I feel like it’s my job to set the record straight (it’s not, but I’m gonna do it anyway), so strap in I guess. (I know that we don’t talk about the finale any more but I have to get it out of my system so!)

To anyone..... ANYONE that still thinks that Cas’ confession in 15x18 Despair is anything other than an explicitly romantic confession (all those people that are saying Cas confessed his love for Dean as a brother, as a best friend; I’m looking at you), fuck you and your homophobic heteronormative bullshit.

Time to set the record straight (or gay, heh.)

First, I just need to say that Misha Collins, after the episode aired, on a panel with Richard Speight Jr. (who directed that episode), as well as Mark Sheppard, Ruth Connell and some others, said, and I quote “Castiel tells Dean he loves him and, like, basically makes Destiel canon.” Him saying this means that that’s how he acted the scene. That is how he portrayed the dialogue for the confession. Richard, who, once again, directed that episode, was in that Zoom call, and as the director, he didn’t say anything contradicting that or going against what Misha said either.

Before I go in with dissecting that scene, which I, as well as I’m sure a billion people did, let’s jump back for a second to episode 12x12 Stuck In The Middle With You

Now, in this episode, Castiel thought he was about to die, and in what he thought were his last moments, told Dean, Sam, and Mary that they were family and that he loved them, all of them. This. This was an act of familial love. This was the “we’re family. I love you” that y’all apparently THINK the despair scene was about. The tone for this scene in 12x12 is SO SO different than in 15x18 it’s not even close. So if you’re so desperate for a familial “brotherly love” confession, watch 12x12, you won’t be disappointed.

Okay now that that’s out of the way, let’s move on with taking about the actual scene. My point with reminding everyone about 12x12 is simply because why would Cas’ confession in 15x18 be familial if he already said his familial love piece three years prior. Dean already knows that. That’s not much of a confession if it’s things he already knows...

Okay time for dissection! I’m not going to copy and paste Cas’ confession, bc we’ve all heard it so if you don’t know the specifics of what I’m quoting, it’s on YouTube.

In the beginning of the confession, before Cas goes on about how everything Dean does is for love, Castiel contemplates what he could’ve done to trigger the Empty, when he knows that the one thing he wants is something he knows he can’t have. Now, we’ve heard something akin to this before in the show (6x14 with Lisa, 14x10 with Pamela) both in regards to Dean and both with a meaning of romantic or amorous intent.

Castiel then remarks that happiness is not in the having, it’s in the being. It’s in just saying it. And what does he say? A three minute blurb about why Dean does everything for love. How Dean changed Castiel. How because Dean cared about everyone and the world, so did Cas.

How Cas Loves Him.

Now. All this build up. All this talking. All of this confessing. It’s a love confession. A romantic love confession. Castiel is saying that he is in love with this man, this man who made him care so much when it went against every single ounce of programming. Castiel, who in his last moments alive, sacrificed himself to save the man he loves. Because when you love someone so deeply, you’re willing to do anything for them. Even if that means giving your happiness for them.

Castiel is in love with Dean Winchester.

Now this post is already long as fuck (I apologize) so I’m not going to go into the implications of this approaching the finale, or how the finale was hot garbage because it threw away the most meaningful and psychologically complex relationship and characters in television history, or Dean’s reciprocation, but if y’all want me to make a part two I gladly will.

And to those naysayers that I addressed in the beginning of this very long post: if by this point you’re reading and you still don’t think that Castiel’s confession was written, acted and directed as a confession with romantic intent, you are beyond help and I truly truly am sorry. Maybe rewatch the series and try to pay a little more attention to the Dean and Cas scenes and less attention to idk, Jared’s hair or whatever it is you were watching for the last 12 years.

Finally, to all you sexy heller bitches, I love you with my whole ass heart. You rock you funky little shippers.

And as always:

[pray4jensen]

dude i had nooooooo idea what was up with occ*mshipper. wtf!! genuinely so glad i saw that

yeah! i don’t think a lot of people are aware tbh. it’s good to have opposing viewpoints about a situation because sometimes it is hard to see what is truly happening unless you take a step outside the bubble and look at it from multiple angles

for example, a lot of people who support her are saying it’s not a toxic environment because they can exit her discord server at any time. that they’re not being held against their will and that it’s a positive place to talk about the show. but what they don’t see is that the people who do exit the server leave because they are bullied off it (there are so many people with first-hand experience who have talked about this). what they don’t realize is that anybody who has a divergent opinion from the group is immediately excluded from the group, and if you can’t calmly discuss opposing viewpoints without people coming down on you to silence you, then how can you say that you have a supportive and positive environment? it is only a positive environment for those who continue to affirm and uphold her opinions. you have to be a ‘yes man’ to enjoy that positive atmosphere. 

her entire blog consists of her reblogging posts and shaming people. anons and even non-anons who go to her with honest thoughts and questions are immediately belittled or accused of being a spy for the ‘other side,’ whether it be those who oppose her or whether she thinks it’s a secret network executive coming after her. when people give valid readings of the show’s text, she will always insinuate that they’re wrong about something, and that she has the necessary knowledge to analyze the show the right way (strange, because if there’s one thing i was told over the course of my english degree, it is that there is no wrong or right way, as long as you have enough (and key word being enough and not all-encompassing) evidence to back up your argument). she carefully choses not to reblog posts that are too on-the-dot about her behaviour or ones that point out flaws in her argument and analysis. when you follow her, you only see what she wants you to see. everybody is wrong or not smart enough to see it like her eyes do.

and then there’s the absolutely terrifying way she screenshots her private conversations with people in order to have something on hand to blackmail them should they step out of line. there’s the terrifying way she attempts to reason that her behaviour has noble intentions because she is ‘monitoring’ the bad apples in fandom (is curating an environment where constant surveillance is key and where you take it upon yourself to police others bad? um, yeah, it is). and then there’s the fact that any time someone tries to call her out, she uses highbrow language to make herself sound informed and reasonable, that she calls them queerphobic for opposing her movement against the network (and like, i’ll say that personally i want justice, too, but i also know there are more transparent, accountable and constructive ways to get it than the way she’s going about it). and if it’s not calling someone queerphobic, she will inevitably find another way to make it seem that the person on the other end is ‘bad’ just so that when she insults and hurls abuses at them, she can justify that it’s okay.

listen, it is never okay to call someone bad names or defame them just because they don’t agree with you. there is never a reason good enough to disrespect someone who comes to your blog to ask a question, whether they’re anonymous or not. nobody should have to prove to someone else that they’re worthy of respect. no one should have to pass through hoops to deserve kindness. if some stranger walked up to me on the street and asked me to call them an ambulance because they felt ill, would i sneer at them and ask them to prove their identity first? demand that they show me their social media to prove that they’re not a type of person whose opinions are different from mine, that they’re not racist or homophobic or ableist? would i accuse them immediately of being a bad person unless proven otherwise? no, i wouldn’t. i would call them a fucking ambulance.

and tbh, even if they were someone i knew, would i deny them basic human decency and respect if one time, they said something that i didn’t agree with? would i deny them an ambulance just because our opinions on destiel didn’t match up or if they didn’t like my approach about a certain thing? no, i wouldn’t. i would call them a fucking ambulance.     

with her, it’s not like that. you are disrespected first until you prove yourself to be worthy of respect. you have belittling language thrown at you as soon as you walk through the door, until you prove you’re worth any kindness or decency. and if you’re not new and you have an opinion that differs, well, then you’re not worth anything at all.

it takes one glance to see her blog is full of nothing but hatred. it takes one look to see that she is incapable of kindness or respect or thoughtful discussion. and to see someone like that try to lead the charge against the network or try to obtain ‘justice’ for what happened—it’s frightening, really. it’s something to think and worry about. why would you want to be a part of that? 

think about the type of people we know in this fandom who make change happen. think about how they treat their opponents with respect and kindness regardless of how terrible someone might treat them. think about stacey abrams and misha collins, who have had truly awful people come after them but who have always responded with kindness and good words, because people like that—they are the ones who bring about positive change and they are the type of people we should be looking for to protest the network’s censorship of queer identities. i’m pretty sure occ*mshipper isn’t one of them.     

[zandracourt]

I’ve been reflecting a lot on Cas’ recent confession of love and the responses I’ve been seeing across tumblr and Twitter. As a Destiel fic writer, I am thrilled to see this become canon and as a queer woman, also really touched to see how much Misha has embraced this as a really significant thing. I already ordered my Only Love merch. So I’m content with it all as much as it is. SPN has never made queer representation its issue. SPN *has* responded to its fanbase, who have both pushed the importance of representation and also brought the actors into a realm of growth over queer issues that they may never have come to without this show and this fandom. For that reason, I don’t think it’s helpful to be mad at Jensen or the Showrunners for Destiel not being perfect. You don’t have to celebrate them as allies, but the anger and vitriol just doesn’t help, in my opinion.

BUT...where my thoughts have been going is around what it means to be an actor in a ‘ship and what the impact of the story has on the actors, the fandom, and the constant dance of who controls the story because I think this has been something that even with straight characters has had serious impacts on how fans feel about an ending.

My first fandom, Starsky & Hutch, was mostly written by a gay man who wrote “straight” characters because that was what they had to be in 1974. The characters and show plots were such that the actors felt the love underneath the words and acted accordingly. Back then, it wasn’t so much queer baiting as queer coding. I find it amazing that my parents never thought for a minute Starsky and Hutch were gay, but even as a 7 year old, I knew they were in love and saw them that way. And anyone who watches the show now, it’s so clear that it’s almost laughable. When their show won the Peopel’s Choice award in 1977, David Soul said in his acceptance speech that the best part of being on this show was that people saw two men who “could be anything”. He knew that queer folk read their characters as gay and that straight folks saw them as straight and he was happy for both to be true. While the show never had an explicitly romantic declaration, the characters held hands, hugged, and in the final episode, their final scene is Hutch crawling into Starsky’s hospital bed with him, something done with amusement, but was completely coded to mean something else. It was never “canon”, but the ‘ship has lasted 46 years with new fic being written even now.

In the new SW films, actor Oscar Isaac was not at all quiet about his feelings that his character, Poe Dameron, was in love with Finn. He stated he played him that way (and was not directed otherwise) and he even explicitly asked for that ship to be made canon. He was told no and that is not how the story ended. The romance plot was instead focused on two other characters. Some fans liked that. Many didn’t. In general, though, the story is open-ended enough that shippers could have Stormpilot be their ship and there is nothing that really contradicts that. In that scenario, Oscar had his sense of who this character was and felt strongly about that, but in the end, it wasn’t his story, so the ending was what it was.

Hawai’i Five-0 ended its 10 year run last spring. Actor Scott Caan said in an interview during the show’s 5-year mark that he wanted to see his charcter have a romantic story line with his other lead, Steve McGarrett. And while Scott did not go so far as Oscar Isaac did to say he made his acting choices based on that, watching him and Alex play their characters, there was definitely some intention to show their characters as loving one another. Actor Alex O’Loughlin voiced a few times over the years that he felt his character would not get back together with Catherine, a woman his character was on-again, off-again with, because he felt Steve had reached his limit with what Catherine had done to him. The series made a decision to end with Steve leaving Hawai’i behind and flying away with Catherine. Neither actor has commented much about the show’s ending, but clearly it went against what both actors had publicly expressed in the past. Again, they don’t control the story, but they do understand their characters after playing them for so many years and they are invested in that. In that sense, the actor’s subsequent silence about how the show ended says quite a bit. And McDanno fans were very unsatisfied with the show’s ending, myself included.

So we come to Destiel. Over the years, this ship has been very controversial in part because one actor (Misha) has clearly been OK with his character being perceived as being in love with Dean, while the other actor (Jensen) has not. At times he has been very negative about it, and that has been taken by some fans to imply how Jensen feels about homosexuality in general. I’m not convinced it does, but I understand why people feel that way. Over the 12 years since Cas’ introduction on the show, there clearly has been a shift from the writers and showrunners avoiding the topic entirely, to talking about it, and now to having Cas confess his feelings of love to Dean in canon. In the days since, Misha has been unequivocal in saying Cas is romantically in love with Dean and that he has played him that way, at least for this season and likely longer. Misha is proud that he was able to advocate for Cas to be gay and he clearly understands why it is important for the show to have made this choice. For Jensen’s part, however, he has stated he has not played Dean that way and from video clips of him talking about the show’s ending, it appears that he needed some convincing to accept this as the story. To his credit though, once he was convinced that this was something show creator (Eric Kripke) could envision as part of Dean’s character arc, he was on-board with this ending and feels statisfied with it. And I think some of the frustration folks feel stems from both in how the actors portrayed their characters and in which takes were chosen to be in the final cuts of episodes. In that way, the show has fed this ship, whether the actors realized it or not, and that is why Destiel has felt particularly painful at times. The fanbase has been gaslighted for seeing it at all (from actors and showrunners) while the directors have seemed to go out of their way to choose shots where the actor’s choices were more tender and affectionate and write lines where characters make explicit statements about Dean and Cas as romantic. I can’t help but wonder if Jensen really didn’t see Dean as being in love with Cas, but that we saw Jensen’s own affinity for Misha bleed through in their incredible chemsitry together or if Jensen has just been in denial of this ‘ship having teeth for his own personal reasons. I don’t know and so far, he hasn’t been willing to talk about that. Maybe he will once it’s over. Maybe he won’t and I’m not going to be angry with him for it. He’s an incredible actor and he’s lived this character for 15 years, so he has a right to who he believed Dean is and isn’t.

The issues of representation continue to be pressing and what I see happening with Destiel and these other ‘ships is exciting because it shows growth on all sides. We have audiences able to voice not only how they perceive characters without shame but can express a desire for characters to be together. None of that is new for straight characters, but it is for queer characters. We have actors who not only can see these same things, but feel enough ownership of their characters to expresss what they believe their characters would do or feel. And we have showrunners who are going to make their story, sometimes in response to feedback from their fans and actors, and sometimes in spite of it.

What Destiel becoming canon gives me hope for is that as new shows come into being, characters that take off, actors who have unexpected chemistry, and ‘ships that gain a life of their own, will lead to shows that are less inclined to care if those ships are queer or not and just go with what fans respond to. That it will normalize that people can (and do) come out an all different times of life, even after being het-married, having kids, or presenting as straight to everyone else for 40 years. That it will reflect that sometimes, it’s not about having been queer or straight from the beginning, but be about that ONE relationship that just is different, special, or grows into a deep love regardless of the genders of the people. I hope we can get to a place where deep intimacy between same-gender characters doesn’t have to be a war over romance vs. platonic and the story can just develop without the pressure of representation because queer characters will be so prevalent that we don’t have to feel like we must cling so tightly to every one we get. I hope we can come to a place where sometimes relationships don’t go romantic because one person (regardless of gender) just doesn’t feel that way, because that is very fucking true in real life. I want to watch shows where the sexual identity of any character doesn’t have to be etched in stone from the word go, never to change ever because that’s boring and limiting, and honestly, not real life.

I am deeply grateful for actors like Isaac, Caan, and Collins who are willing to see characters outside the heteronormative lens and to advocate for queer romantic arcs. I’m thankful to showrunners who are making shows with greater queer representation than ever before. And I’m grateful to actors like Ackles, who while it wasn’t who he thought his character was, was able to expand his view enough to go where the story was going to go. The arc of the universe does bend towards justice, and we will get there. Until then, there’s fic. And thank God for that.

[castee-yel]

So honest question here. Because it’s literally mind boggling me I see a lot of anti- destiel people (not all are w*nchest shippers) say again and again Destiel fans are annoying/disgusting/vile/toxic/solely responsible for tearing the fandom apart/insert your favorite adjective here.

And like I don’t see that? Like most of the destiel fans I see lately are just here to have a good time, and talk about something they love w other fans. I mean I know back in the day there was a lot of issues at cons and stuff. But from my observations it seemed like the cast became more accepting of the ship. Like idk I guess I just don’t get why those who ship destiel are constantly being attacked as *insert insult here* when there’s a whole subset of this fandom that send literal death threats, campaign to get people fired bc they didn’t like them, planned assaults on cast. Like it wasn’t the destiel crowd that behaved in abhorrent ways. So why is destiel being constantly called toxic and vile?

PS sorry for the long ramble, hope you have a good day.

anon you got it spot on, i dont understand why anyone would dedicate their blog to something they hate, surely that doesn't have any fun in it. i feel as if its wasted energy, like instead of that you could be using that time and energy to talk about the things you actually do love.

regardless i'm pretty used to getting hate on a daily basis (literally not a day goes by with me getting less than 2 anon hates from a w*ncestie or a bibro) for simply talking about the fact i love misha/cas/destiel/dean.

i always try my absolute best to turn this "hate" to something comedic and/or positive at the very least, because lets be honest: i'm here for shits and giggles + sharing my artwork/writing/gifs/edits not throttling some kid who doesnt understand the immorality of shipping inc*st.

and a lot of the cast issues were exaggerated by antis, there are always disrespectful fans, as someone who's been to plenty of conventions (many not spn related) i assure you there are rude and invasive people in every corner of the world, so i dont get why anyone would pin that all on just destiel shippers other than just the intent of hate.

as you said, there are people out there sending death threats, doxxing actors, spreading pure unfiltered hate yet somehow "hellers" are the "problem" in this fandom... damn we really out here talking about love for 2 characters' love for eachother.. not hate...

might i remind everyone that misha collins had literally been sent death threats, mocked publically, constantly gets body shamed or told he's ugly or whatever by the same fans that call "hellers" problematic... they justify it by saying he's rich (despite also bullying him for being "poor" and having "no other jobs") and he wont see it (which even though that may be true, there are still fans with the same physique as him or appearance that can very easily take offence from you body shaming someone who looks like them)

anyways i dont mind your rambles at all anon, i appreciate them greatly!! thank you for verbalising half of whats in my head 24/7 <3!

[a-single-man-tear-dean]

My takeaway on #destiel, and the panels of the two people involved in the scene.

1. Cas’s love declaration very closely mirrors Dean’s apology in episode 9 in purgatory. Dean talks about how he doesn’t know why he always gets so angry and in the declaration Cas tells Dean that anger isn’t all he is.

2. Dean running up the stairs when he hoped that lucifer was actually Cas and then him basically saying that he’ll kill Sam or Sam will kill him but “Cas, you gotta bring him back” shows that he doesn’t hate Cas for the love declaration, he still wants him back even with the declaration and to me that shows a deeper love reciprocated.

3. Misha Collins does an interview with a bunch of the cast and makes clear that it “was a homosexual declaration of love” and does feel bad about the bury your gays trope. And also he made sure we knew that Jensen signed off on the scene and it wouldn’t have been written if he didn’t, shows that it is more than platonic otherwise why would Jensen need to sign off? Because it’s not like platonic “I love you’s” haven’t been declared by all of them before. And he did like a tweet that said “misha like this is destiel is canon”

4. Bobo Berens wrote the episode and he is also the writer of episode 9 with the purgatory scene. Coincidence? I think not. He has always been behind destiel and everything that goes along with that.

5. Jensen was decidedly quiet after the episode, however he did like Mishas tweet about how he wishes he was more like Cas. But in his panel this Sunday whewwwww boy there is a lot to unpack from it. First - the moderators wouldn’t let destiel questions through and destiel and deancass were all blocked out from the questions on the side, but even still Jensen made nods. He brought up misha, he mentioned the colours green and blue (which we know are the ship colours) and he *intentionally* didn’t mention cas being dead when he said what has happened vs what is left to do (might not have been intentional but for this deep dive I am going to say it is). And let’s not talk about the giggle he did when he saw Elvis being his last downloaded song, yes it’s clearly because of soldier boy as that is the song he downloaded, but anyone who reads Destiel fan fic knows that Elvis is a big deal there because of Twist and Shout, one of the most read AU destiel fics out there. and second - someone transcribed his answer from a 1 on 1 where they asked about destiel and his answers were nothing short of confirmation 100%. Him and misha had talks about how they were going to answer fan questions regarding the scene and agreed to all (which means Jensen knew misha was going to call it a homosexual declaration of love). He also made mention that he didn’t want to “cop out” in his answer; and why would he need to cop out if it was purely platonic? But that he doesn’t believe Dean had time to process what was being said to him, for multiple reasons including his best friend was about to die, and he didn’t think that celestial beings could feel human feelings. He also said that he believes Dean thinks that Cas’s feelings are basically too monumental for Dean to process. So he made clear that no decision was made on Dean’s side about reciprocation it was more Dean couldn’t reciprocate because of the situation not that he didn’t want to. He also called out knowing how important that scene was for many reasons - and we all know that those reasons are because of the slow burn of destiel AND the goodbye to a long standing fan favourite character. While he did want to make known that the scene can be interpreted anyway we chose, he knows how he played it and how misha played it and how bobo wrote it.

6. Last year at a gold panel in Jacksonville someone asked Jared his thoughts on Samstiel and Jared fully gagged and responded “Sam has better taste”, Jensen not required an answer at all pipes up “and clearly Dean has no taste at all” this joke wasn’t necessary but does it foreshadow something bigger down the line? At this point Jensen didn’t even know about the love declaration though misha did, so why make this joke unless you as an actor played your character in love also.

7. In conclusion I do believe that Destiel is canon, I don’t believe it is unreciprocated by Dean, I think we don’t know deans thoughts one way or another. I do think we have a good understanding of the actors views on it one way or another though; and I believe they have both admitted it is canon at this point. I hope for great things in the series finale, but at this point in the game I would be happy with cas just coming back, or any mention from Dean what was actually said and how he is processing. But this is supernatural and I am also prepared for dissapointment

[remythologise]

I don't even watch SPN but all the rants got me super intrigued, is it possible to get a layman's summary of what's going on? I think I understand why the Destiel canon confession thing got everyone mad but what happened after? What's the meta narrative everyone's talking about? Was there an expectation of something and they didn't deliver? Just super curious feel free to ignore if you don't have the time x

Hey anon! Sorry for flooding your dash haha. Layman’s summary is as follows:

Of the people watching SPN and shipping Destiel in season 15, most don’t expect it to be canon. A small group of people are providing meta being like it’s DEFINITELY going canon, but 500 times bitten 600 times shy, most don’t believe them. Now I wanna say, this meta - on the most part - makes sense. It does. It just assumes a smarter show than I think Supernatural is.

Season 12-15, from when Dabb takes over as showrunner, is emotionally about building a family around ‘Jack’ a nephilim child who considers Sam, Dean and Cas his ‘three dads’. They love him as a son, textually this is stated many times. 

Season 15 is a meta narrative in which the characters face off against God, ‘the Author’. The Author also represents the SPN writers. Many people believed that this meant the end of the show would be Sam and Dean being ‘free’ of the narrative that had chained them, which is, to SPN’s credit, exactly what happened (if executed extremely fucking poorly.) The defeat of God is the one plot point in 15.19 I liked, even if I don’t like how it was done.

During this season and to be honest, many previous seasons, there’s a really subtle Dean/Cas narrative being drawn, and when I say ‘subtle’, I mean like, it’s loud for an intelligent show, but quiet for a CW show where nothing is written subtly. And this season, there’s a beautiful line being strung through about free will, about how Castiel had free will, how he fell for Dean, outside the narrative. Outside of the author’s intention. It matches up with the meta arc.

15.18 airs, Destiel goes canon with Cas’ confession, suddenly everything is on the table. The show REALLY IS intelligent enough to understand that amazing meta narrative; the characters falling in love outside the author’s plan. They really bring it into canon. Suddenly, all the bi flag lighting and weird tap dance scenes in this season make SENSE. And I mean that sincerely; it was like the arc of the season was completely locked into place with this. Everything had a place to fall into. Everyone is very excited for the end, because surely, surely, this being a grand epic narrative where one main character confesses to another, Castiel would not stay dead. The narrative had showed us that Dean loved him, through mixtapes given and unmatched grief for his death and choked off prayers. And tap dancing with lamps, if you read into that.

I think the problem is that the Dean/Cas arc was written subtly by the talented writers who love it, and for that reason it’s far better than anything else in season 15. And I think people wrongly assumed that Dean would be allowed to love a man in return, despite the narrative imperative he return Cas’ love (Cas being a character who has never really been treated the way he deserved, and a happy ending being the antithesis to Chuck/The Author’s desired tragic ending) Which brings us to

15.19 airs, and it’s a complete clusterfuck. The episode itself is the worst I’ve seen, hands down. The writing is terrible, the ending is anti-climatic, they have montages that are supposed to be emotional but just seem like random clips of random characters to completely incorrect music choices. Not only that, but the characters end the episode emotionally OOC in a way I’ve never seen before. At the start of the episode, Dean begs God/Chuck to bring Cas back to life. Chuck has the power to do this; we see this when he resurrects Lucifer from the same place Cas is. At the end of the episode, Jack, despite having acquired God’s powers, resurrects EVERYONE IN THE WORLD, but not Castiel. Castiel is not mentioned, by Jack - the son who adored him, and who he adored - and not by Dean - who had just received a love confession from him, and had not twenty minutes earlier begged God to kill him and Sam and bring back everyone especially Cas. Hello?

There are so many plotholes and canon continuity errors and dropped plot points with 15.19 but let me say the most glaring wrt Cas; in s15, Ruby asks Cas to free her from the Empty. She says it’s eternal suffering for demons and angels there. We know the Empty hates Cas. Lucifer, in this ep, mentions the Empty being a fucking nightmare. And yet DESPITE ALL OF THIS, Castiel is left there to suffer. And the writers it seems are pretending that the Empty is meant to be ‘peaceful’, despite this being mentioned nowhere in text. 

At the end of the episode, Sam and Dean toast to Jack and Castiel, to the ‘ones they lost’ and then just seem to be happy and fine with everything. Sam doesn’t even mention his love interest, Eileen, who he had been panicking over being dead. And full smile coming from the man, Dean Winchester, who was textually suicidal last time he thought Castiel was dead. What??? But it really does seem like the family was just broken up without any emotional catharsis and Castiel’s confession won’t be addressed.

As far as we are aware, Misha Collins is not returning and the next ep is a Monster of the Week brother-centred ‘classic’ episode finale.

So basically; everything intelligent we thought was happening in the story was mostly a lie, Dean/Castiel was no-homo’d out of being a beautiful never before seen meta narrative love story (well, a reciprocated one), the family dynamic of Team Free Will was horribly broken up with no emotional coherence or catharsis, and most of this seems to be a poorly written excuse to have the two brothers alone again. Oh, and also, Castiel is an incredibly tragic queer figure who spent the whole show suffering, dying, and serving the man he loved, and got sent to super-turbo-hell for it. And NONE of the dropped plot threads or emotional threads are gonna be picked back up, barring a miracle surprise appearance from Misha Collins in 15.20 - but even then, how do you excuse Jack walking out, and forgetting to bring Cas back to life? How do you excuse Dean suddenly giving up on Cas as soon as it’s possible to revive him again... what, because he’s gay for Dean now? How do you excuse any of it? 

[sidecarghost]

My Reaction to Destiel in Spn 15x18 to 15x20

Notes: this will contain spoilers for up to series finale 15x20.

I am in LGBTQ+, and this is my personal opinion on the treatment of Destiel, Dean, and Castiel in episodes 15x18-15x20. The LGBTQ+ community is complex and varied, just like any community, so I do not intend for my views to be seen as representative. I think any reaction is just as valid as mine.

Castiel’s Declaration and Dean’s Response

I personally thought Misha Collins’ performance of Castiel’s declaration of love was earnest and authentic. It was beautiful, and I loved every word of it. What bothered me about 15x18 was Dean not reciprocating. I understand that love doesn’t always work out, but this is a LGBTQ+ relationship. There are so few LGBTQ+ relationships on tv, so it’s difficult to understand why anyone would see the need to add an unfulfilled LGBTQ+ relationship that leaves the queer character unloved. LGBTQ+ are just as worthy to be loved as cishet. Before this viewers could use their imagination, but now it’s pretty final that Dean never thought of Cas as more than a friend, and that Dean is vaguely to deeply disturbed by his BFF being in love with him.

I think 15x20 tried to firmly establish Dean as cishet (retconning any prior subtextual queer coding) by having Dean show more affection to his car joining him in Heaven then he had to his LGBTQ+ friend near death. I hate that Dean is so cold to Cas during that declaration scene, and then no other insight into Dean’s feelings is ever shown. So we can only infer Dean’s feelings from that scene and the reaction reads confused, disturbed, shocked, and disbelieving. And I feel second hand crushed for Castiel. That would not be a happy moment for me at all. Just because Dean doesn’t feel any attraction to Castiel I don’t think that excuses his coldness during the declaration. This was a heartless way to react to a close queer friends admittance to an attraction, and the cold shoulder reaction seems really OOC for Dean.

Dean is typically much more sensitive about other people’s feelings. I know he is often painted as tough and unfeeling, but that’s really when his own feelings are in question. Usually he seems very in tune when someone else needs emotional support, and here he is just like mentally checking out. Dean appears to be thinking “Oh my BFF is confessing his love, I will just gawk at him like he is some kind of crazy.” Then Dean’s last words to Castiel are “Don’t do this, Cas,” because he’d like his final message to be invalidating. And then there is HUGE problem that Dean was so disturbed by Cas’s declaration that he never mentions it over the course of 15x19 and 15x20. Even though his friend gave his life for him.

Bad Representation more Harmful than No Representtion

I could be wrong, but I feel like the inclusion of Destiel this late in the game just to make it unrequited was malicious. And that’s because Destiel is a big thing for fandom and especially LGBTQ+ in fandom. Even non-Spn fandom LGBTQ+ know all about Destiel. I never dreamed the ship would go canon, and that was fine because the show could play out and I could read and write fic. Destiel was a fun ship, because the characters had wonderful development from the show, and the actors had great chemistry and were good looking and talented. Dean and Cas were complex and multi-dimensional and ready to run a coffeehouse or become pop star wannabes in a televised singing contest.

The show never told fans Dean and Cas wouldn’t love each other, so it was so easy for me to imagine they would love each other. That has changed since I watched the finale. I personally can’t ship Destiel anymore because all I remember now is the angel giving the hunter his heart, and Dean being so cold and uncaring. Dean stays so far away from Cas like he can’t stand to be close to him. When the two characters used to be in each other’s personal space all the time. It’s like the show wanted me to know how wrong I was to ever read a romance there. As though I had personally offended Dean Winchester. I always thought Dean could be bi, but now he is canon cishet to me. Because if he was going to be attracted to a guy it’d be Cas, because he is the most badass character on show. I’m okay with explanation that Dean was shell shocked in 15x18, but Dean’s continued indifference in 15x20 makes it more likely to me that the show intended for Dean to just not feel that way about Cas.

LGBTQ+ Character Erased

The show ended 10 days ago, but many LGBTQ+ spn fandom members are still reeling from Castiel’s erasure from the story as soon as he came out. There was so much hope that the show was giving LGBTQ+ fandom a ship they never expected in 15x18. The way everything seemed to signal that Dean and Cas would be brought back together in 15x20. And theories abounded on possible scenarios. My personal favorite was Dean rescuing Castiel from the Empty in 15x20 as a reverse of Castiel rescuing Dean from Hell in 4x01. This felt historic to see an actual fandom mlm ship finally get validated on the show, like LGBTQ+ were being seen and told we were just as valid as cishet by the show we loved.

But in the end, the LGBTQ+ relationship was just a tease. A queer angel declared his love and died. Then Dean died so he’d never get chance to process his feelings (if he had any). Dean and the viewers learned Cas had been saved, but Dean never bothered to pray to Cas or make any other attempt to reconnect with him. Had Cas escaped before Dean’s death? Had Cas just let Dean die? We never find out. Whether intentional or not, Castiel no longer had any significance in the life or death of the man he loved so strongly. If you related to Cas the exemption was a gut punch. I saw Cas as important and he was my voice and my story, and then 15x20 had Castiel as unimportant to the story and he was silenced.

The Bury your Gay trope

Cas had come out, and now his last scene was his death. Castiel was written out of the show, and no one seemed willing to give him more than a passing thought. The series regular and reoccurring character of 12 years was treated like he was never very important to Dean or Sam. This wasn’t historic, this is the “bury your gay” trope and a real problem for LGBTQ+ representation in movies and shows.

Negative impact of teasing LGBTQ+ romance in movies and shows

15x18 didn’t just feature Cas coming out, his coming out could have been handled just like Chuck’s in season 11 by dialogue stating he liked guys too. Castiel’s coming out was part of a declaration of love to his best friend. This teased a possible LGBTQ+ romance between two male leads with no intention of follow through. Heteronormative fans can state my perspective was invalid, but I’d like to challenge them to see LGBTQ+ as just as valid and normal as cishet romance.

If unintentional:

this was insensitive and bad representation

If intentional:

at best queer baiting (Dean was cishet so any fans that thought reciprocation was possible were wrong. Never mind all the subtextual queer coding of Dean that non-heteronormative viewers had observed.)

at worst outright homophobia (if you read Dean as a closeted bisexual that is fridged before he has chance to come out)

The Intention of C* Spn?

I have to wonder what the LGBTQ+ in Spn fandom ever did to make the show runners so mad at us. I would really like to get the perspective of the show runners, because without that, it is just too easy to believe the worst.

Perceiving the Finale Message of We don’t Belong

And the worst is heart wrenching. The marginalized members of fandom that related to the outcast angel were excluded from the Winchester’s ending. Even though we cared about them so much over the years. Many members of fandom had found families, and were validated by the reoccurring theme that family doesn’t end in blood.

But the finale retconned that message. Castiel was queer, and he was erased. He wasn’t a part of Sam and Dean’s ending. Fandom that related to Castiel could see our affection for the brothers wasn’t reciprocated. We just helped when we were useful but in the end unworthy of love. Family actually did end in blood, and we were naive for believing otherwise.

Spn queer baited LGBTQ+ one last time to drive up viewership, so the marginalized part of the audience could bear witness to Castiel’s exclusion from the Winchester’s finale. We never belonged. This wasn’t our story. This was the story of cishet white brothers, Sam and Dean, that were the product of their cishet white parents, John and Mary, that lived up the road in their Heaven. The queer angel of the lord was not going to intrude in their story any longer, despite his devotion to them over the past 12 years. We didn’t belong, because Castiel didn’t belong.

Other Views are Valid

I just want to reiterate that everything I’m saying is just my own opinion. If other LGBTQ+ thought the episodes were perfect that is also very valid. If you are not a LGBTQ+ then I appreciate your support, and ask that you check any biases before disagreeing with my opinion. Cishet will never be made to feel marginalized, inferior, or abnormal because of their sexuality or gender. And if you want to save LGBTQ+ lives you can try to change your view to see queer as normal and become a LGBTQ+ ally.

TLDR;

Misha’s performance was amazing. Bobo Beren’s writing was brilliant. After 15x18, the romance was like a puzzle that had all the pieces carefully together except the last one. Then 15x20 took that beautiful, nearly complete puzzle and dumped it in a metal trash bin, soaked it in lighter fluid, and burned it to ash. I blame the showrunners. They should never have had a LGBTQ+ come out to have his love unrequited, die, and then get erased from the story. Bad representation is worse than no representation.

[cowboylikedean]

but highkey some of y’all just need to take a step back and think of the person that misha is

the reason he posted that video and those tweets today is the same reason he tweeted ��you’re not crazy” in 2013. he is a people pleaser who wants people to be okay. it’s why he listened.

misha wants us to not be upset with the end of cas’s story... and whether you think the cw stepped in or not whether you still trust dabb for some reason (you do you i guess) or not whether you believe it was a rogue translator or not... misha’s motivations are clear if you know anything about him at all

he loved the end of cas’s story. he shipped destiel so hard from at least 2012- and he just really was proud to bring that textually to the story. i don’t believe that scene should count as “canon destiel” at all and i think misha saying it is itself queerbaiting... but my feelings aside, MISHA feels like it’s canon. and he was so excited to share that with us. 

i think misha started shipping destiel after fan after fan told him how much it meant to them and destiel to misha has always been about us. 

the day he tweeted you’re not crazy, we were fighting with a producer who said they were fine with queer characters, but that wasn’t their intention with supernatural. it got tense and the word “crazy” was thrown around a lot. misha tweeted and all the fighting stopped. that tweet told us “i’m playing destiel intentionally” but it also told us “i support you” and “i am here to listen.” 

misha collins, the human, hates authority. he doesn’t want to be authority putting his foot down. but he is a natural born leader. he choses to use that leadership ability to foster love and acceptance and tolerance and conversation. he was visually upset in that video and he said on twitter that he’s sorry he was defensive, but it was because he thought that scene would hit the fandom differently than it did. he was trying to give back to us. 

like idk what conspiracy theories you do or do not believe in, but to say misha’s motivations came from an ulterior place is just plain ridiculous and honestly rude. it proves you haven’t really paid attention to him and don’t know anything about him. misha deserves better than that. 

[tea-at-221]

So, let's delve a bit into the Spanish dub of Supernatural.

I'm going to go through a lot of terms here, and a lot of basics, in order to increase people's level of understanding as to how the dub may possibly have come about the way it did.

This post will provide information and, I hope, allow some members of the fandom to move forward with their own theories with more reassurance. Information is power. I will define and clarify industry terms to the best of my novice ability to make it easier for others who wish to do their own research.

This post was inspired by the fact that I've been part of multiple fandoms in which queerbaiting has played an enormous part: I am tired of seeing fandom friends left devastated and without answers, no emotional resolution in sight. So this post is, in spirit if not content, largely dedicated to my fellow Johnlockers and Queliot shippers. And most of all, for Quentin Coldwater, who deserved not just better but the very best.

Disclaimer: This is my own research and there is a bit of speculation involved; I can't guarantee 100% that I will get everything right (I hit some very frustrating walls looking up what should be easy-to-find facts), but I did a *lot* of work for this. Other people will doubtless be able to clarify points/give better specifics/correct what I've gotten wrong. I am not promising a concrete answer to “SPN gate” here, as without more information than we currently have that is impossible to declare with certainty.

More under the cut.

All that having been said, onwards (see end for sources):

First, who airs the Spanish dub of Supernatural?

Answer: the Warner Channel.

Why? It goes back to who owns The CW.

From Wikipedia (2): "The CW Network, LLC, a limited liability joint venture between the CBS Entertainment Group unit of ViacomCBS; and the Studios and Networks division of AT&T's WarnerMedia, the parent company of Warner Bros., former majority owner of The WB. The network's name is an abbreviation derived from the first letters of the names of its two parent corporations (CBS and Warner Media)."

Warner Bros apparently is the side that handles the delegation of dubbing to outside studios. So, who does Warner use for their dubbing? Perhaps multiple studios, but the two I found in the course of my research were SPGStudios(5) (who specifically handle localization for Latin American Spanish productions) and Iyuno Media Group (formerly BTI Studios)(3).

What is localization?

Simply put, it refers to the translation of the home language of the show in question to the language of the new market it's entering. So, Supernatural 15x18 is translated from its native English to Spanish for Latin American viewers.

And what exactly *is* dubbing (actually called revoicing within the industry; dubbing is a widely-recognized term, however, and it's pretty well understood what is meant by it)?

Here is the Merriam-Webster definition:

"1 : to add (sound effects or new dialogue) to a film or to a radio or television production —usually used with "in"

They dubbed in the music.

2 : to provide (a motion-picture film) with a new soundtrack and especially dialogue in a different language

The film was dubbed in French and Spanish.

3 : to make a new recording of (sound or videotape already recorded) also : to mix (recorded sound or videotape from different sources) into a single recording"

There is a slang term, "dubby," which refers to any overdub that is comically jarring and obviously a dub. The history of dubbing has been such that this has become a way to think of and recognize it: by how awful and ineffective it used to be when it came to foreign films sloppily overlaid with English dubbing.

However, we are in the midst of an age of networks and companies scrambling to play catch-up, eager to use modern technology to create more effective, convincing dubs. In short, they see the moneymaking potential of presenting finished works that viewers may not even realize *are* dubbed without careful inspection. It's true that a good dub is about 10x more costly than subtitling, but it's hard to satisfy the viewer's desire for escapism if they can't suspend disbelief because they're busy reading.

The truth of that is reflected in internal statistics Netflix (for instance, but not just them) parses to gauge viewer interaction and retention with their various shows: when comparing subtitled vs. dubbed shows, it's easy to see which is the winner.(1)

So to be sure there is no nefarious intent here, we would need to be able to identify the following:

A.) What exactly was the process for this dub?

B.) Who decides what changes to make during a dubbing process?

C.) Who approves those changes?

*Can* there be such a thing as a "rogue translator," as Misha Collins put it? (I am going to clarify here that I think Misha is an upstanding person who believed the best of the show he was involved in and all the people who made it, so his assumption of a rogue translator makes sense in the context of that emotion-based reasoning).

I'm not sure which studio did the dub for the Latin American Spanish version of Supernatural; if I had access to that episode perhaps it's mentioned in the credits. You'd think that would be simple enough to figure out anyway, but I was unable. So maybe someone can take a look and let me know. But, as an example, here is how SPGStudios outlines their localization (dubbing) process:

1.) They make a digital or analog transcription of a show/movie.

2.) The translation, or localization, is done by their staff (in any of 40 available languages their staff can speak). When translating, they translate for meaning and then adapt for time, tempo, and style. They say that "extensive experience is required to capture the essence of the language dialog while accounting for variances in speaking time between the source and destination languages." i.e.,  wording/word choice will be kept as true as possible to the original intention of the native language, but at the same time the translation will need to use its chosen wording in a way that fits what is being shown on-screen. To produce a convincing/pleasing dub, they won't replace a word like "looked" with a longer phrase like "scanned the horizon" because it's not going to match what's onscreen. That would be venturing into "dubby" territory.

3.) They perform the ADR process: the voice actors (in this case it would normally be Guillermo Rojas performing for Dean Winchester, though it appears things may have been different in 15x18, possibly due to covid) record the new dialogue to replace the original actor's performance.

4.) The newly recorded dialogue goes to the sound editorial department "to ensure that lip-synch is optimized and technical aspects of the vocal performance match the original."

5.) All of the new audio--including dialogue, music, and sound effects--is mixed together to emulate the quality of the original production as closely as possible despite the changes in rhythm that resulted from the dialog having been translated.

6.) Designers, animators, and VFX editors assist with the localization or enhancement of graphics, if needed.

7.) Localized Master: SPG has a 'traffic team' who 'ensures that all client delivery and storage specifications are met, including file formatting, labeling, and uploading." So in other words, the files are heavily encrypted (or that's how I read this).

Presumably, after all steps are performed, SPGStudios transfers the show back to Warner, who then distributes it. The other studio, Iyuno, makes it very clear that *they* can coordinate and handle all distribution themselves to a vast number of networks. That means that if the client desires, Iyuno can send the finished product directly out into the world.

There seem to be two types of scripts that can be given to the dubbing company:

1.) "In-Production Dubbing indicates that dubbing production is active in tandem with post production. In-Production Dubbing fulfillment partners should expect potential changes to source materials."(4)

2.) "Final Asset Dubbing indicates that dubbing production takes place after final delivery of the show. All source assets will be in a final state. The dubbing fulfillment partner should not expect any changes to the source materials."(4)

Without knowing which of these was agreed upon for SPN 15x18, it is very hard to say exactly where or if additional edits may have been performed on the original material that weren't performed on the translated material (in other words, earlier draft).

If the studio was given the episode as an In-Production Dubbing project, this could explain why the title of the Spanish translation reflected the original script title, "The Truth," rather than the final title in English, "Despair".

Assuming this difference was unintentional, rather than a calculated marketing ploy re: audience enticement (which seems admittedly unlikely), then yes, it could indicate a screw-up on someone's part. The question is, was the dub company given the task of generating the title card, or did some other graphics department handle that before the project made it to them? If the latter is the case, the choice to add "Me too" instead of "Don't do this, Cas" could be either a conscious choice on the dub studio's part as sort of a nod to what they thought "the truth" was, or could just be them going with what they were given and making their translation choices based on something else, such as rhythm/timing.

SO, could there have been an original script that had Dean say "me too" in response to Cas, which then went through translation and made it out into the world? Teeechnically yes, but one would assume that the original script and original *footage* would have to have arrived at the dub studio together if the script is being transcribed in-house as SPGSTudios outlines in their process. I'm going to reason that the odds of them using a later edit of the visual--one that contained what in this instance we would be assuming was Warner's preferred dialogue ("Don't do this, Cas") yet choosing to stick with their own audio revoicing of the (supposed) original script/visual's "Me too, Cas" with its now subsequently poor timing, seems unlikely.

So either they would likely have to redo the exact same "Me too" audio again (having made the choice to keep the original dialogue, while also having to work under pandemic restrictions re: travel and talent availability) to make everything match the visual footage time-wise, OR, it was simply a matter that the English scene always was just as we saw it, but that the studio chose to interpret the script the way they did and were able to do their timing the first time around to match accordingly.

This still leaves a question in the air regarding the origin and fate of certain clips of Dean's more visually emotive reaction to Castiel's confession that have been floating around the internet. I've only seen very very brief glimpses of them, myself, and I'm not certain that they're really evidence of anything other than more than one take having been done of that scene, which wouldn't be uncommon and doesn't necessarily point to a conspiracy.

I also want to state that in the wake of 15x18, I opted to protect my mental health rather than follow every development/rumor/speculation that cropped up in the aftermath, so there’s probably a lot that I’m leaving out of this post that may be pertinent. Do me a favor and do assume that I know nothing of it. lol

I will also add this about the other studio, Iyuno: they are very careful to state on their site, repeatedly and with great pride, that they are committed to presenting the world with the smoothest, most true-to-the-original localized version of a film or show possible. Quote: "...our entire team of staff wants nothing more than to make every single one of our partner's content feel as if it were never translated." They are not fucking around. They want to please the client. Would they have done something like the translation in question without any direct go-ahead from Warner? It seems unlikely, though they don't outline their process on their site the way SPG does.

Notice that in the SPGStudios process outlined above, there is no mention made of a review step in which the studio presents the translated dialogue to the client for approval re: the new wording. That doesn't mean there isn't a review step; however, without seeing the contractual agreement that was made between Warner and whatever dub studio they used, or knowing Warner's preferred process by some other means, it's difficult to be certain whether or not there was a review process for the translated script. I did find evidence that Netflix reserves the right to review such translated scripts before air.

Speaking of Netflix, I will include here what their translation requirements are, as I did find those. They, like Warner, also use Iyuno Media Group much of the time for dubbing (voiceover style dubbing in which they apparently like to leave the original language audible underneath, so that's slightly different from revoicing, but I'm working on an assumption that the general expectations are the same for both):(4)

"1. Translation Requirements

1.1 Main Dialogue

   All main dialogue in the source (original) language should be translated unless specifically noted.

   Due to timing limitations, some of the dialogue may be condensed/truncated as long as it retains all essential elements of the plot.

   Please refrain from dubbing redundant words such as character names and repetitions.

       Additionally, do not recreate laughs, hesitations, reaction noises, etc."

I'm looking at that bit: "Due to timing limitations, some of the dialogue may be condensed/truncated as long as it retains all essential elements of the plot."

So let's say just for argument's sake that this is pretty standard language provided to the dubbing studios. Netflix is a giant, so I'll proceed with that assumption given the lack of more concrete information:

Does it really change essential elements of the remaining plot to have Dean return Castiel's declaration of love? Forgetting about the outside, emotional ripple effect such a declaration was bound to set off in the viewing audience, no. The two characters have no further scenes together, nor does Dean go on in the next episode to immediately embark on a new relationship, or tell anyone that Cas said he was in love with him but he couldn't return it because he didn't feel the same. So technically, no rule was broken. And that is what it comes down to, if you're thinking like a lawyer reading a contract: specifics, not theoretical implications or consequences.

So, possibly what we have is something that was simple to add and easy to get away with/argue for: translated dialog that fit a dub better due to its length, and didn't actually change anything plot-wise (or at least, the argument for that could easily be made). This points to the painful crux of the matter: why would the Spanish version of Supernatural which aired in Latin America allow Dean Winchester to return Castiel's declaration of love with a "Me too, Cas"? Could it *really* be as insulting as the fact that "Yo a ti, Cas" would be a quicker, smoother dub than "No hagas esto, Cas"? ("Don't do this, Cas" in English.) Or did they see something they could get away with, and a reasonable argument to provide for it, so they went ahead and claimed a small LGBT+ victory?

Is someone, somewhere, getting in trouble for all this? Maybe. But could action be taken against them? That would look pretty bad, public-relations-wise, for the party expressing condemnation if that got out. Could Iyuno, or whatever other studio (again, I don't actually know which one handled the dub) theoretically feel a ripple effect from the fallout of this? Could they quietly suffer a drop in acquisitions/revenue for "reasons unclear"? Sure. That sort of thing happens all the time, so theoretically yeah.

Whatever the reasoning behind the decision to have Dean return Cas' declaration of love, surely they didn't have to do it. Surely they could have chosen some other phrase that fit. But they chose to do exactly what they did. I don't know what went down, in the end, or whether censorship was indeed involved, but I will certainly say that I think it was a brave and admirable choice that was made with the Spanish dub. It doesn't undo the "bury your gays" trope of course, but for some LGBT+ audience members it surely provides a sense of validation and maybe even lends a little hope for better representation--which is long, long overdue.

Thanks if you read this far. I hope that even though it’s not perfect it will be helpful in some way.

Sources

(1) https://www.indiewire.com/2020/02/subtitles-vs-dubbing-what-you-need-to-know-1202212800/amp

(2) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_CW

(3) https://www.iyunomg.com/

(4) https://partnerhelp.netflixstudios.com/hc/en-us/articles/115016062708-Dubbed-Audio-Style-Guide-VO-Style-Dubbing

(5) https://www.spgstudios.com/localization

[phynali]

more spn discussions, just skip this post y’all

 @queerbluebird​ thanks so much for engaging with my post/reply! i really enjoyed reading your response and i have a long reply here.

i’m responding to your post/reply here rather than reblogging it because honestly that thread is - so long. so very long. 

so first - 

i agree there is a difference between entitlement and what i would call, not promise, but instead “narrative follow-through”. A story that completely lacks narrative follow-through does end up feeling disappointing, or frustrating, or rage-inducing, depending on what’s happened. to me there’s a fundamental difference between critiquing a story based on follow-through and bad storytelling (which your post aims to do), versus say, creating hashtag campaigns about a character being silenced because and spreading conspiracy theories about a bad dub (among other things honestly).

and also - queerbaiting totally sucks, we definitely do agree on that.

where we disagree, i think are these two core points:

i do not see the narrative build-up that demands a follow-through. i do not see supernatural as having built up to the story that many destiel shippers seem to think was there, and no one has ever been able to point out to me any actual textual reasons that do craft that narrative build-up  

i fundamentally do not believe that destiel was ever a queerbait. queerbait involves active intent on the part of creators to tease a ship or queer representation in order to draw in $ from queer audiences without ever making it canon, so as not to alienate straight audiences. so, refering to point 1., i do not see the canon text as having laid the groundwork for a queerbait and those romantic tropes, at least not at any point in the past 7 years. and beyond the canon, the writers and producers and jensen ackles all indicated dean was straight, and that they were not writing a romance. if anyone queerbaited the fans, it was misha collins who kept teasing the possibility, and personally i would argue that was irresponsible of him. but that’s a different discussion altogether and tends to piss people off when it’s framed as such, because misha means a lot to them and it hurts to see the man who validated their feelings get criticized for the manner in which he validated them. so i’m gonna leave that aside.

beyond that, I want to engage with some of your specific quotes:

Supernatural loves to say “wait for it.” And I don’t think it’s entitled to feel betrayed if an author uses their story to say “wait for it” in order to convince you to stick with their story and then delivers the opposite after you do.

May i ask, where was the “wait for it” with destiel? this ties in directly to the queerbaiting. i indicated in my post/reply that while i see it from cas, there’s been little to no hint of any reciprocation of feelings from dean, and if anything the past 7 or so years have driven the point home that it isn’t happening. i personally am not able to see the “Wait for it” and that was the point of my question. without the “Wait for it”, i also can’t see the queerbait. 

I asked for specifics and while i totally get not having the spoons, you provided a few:

(off the top of my head for Dean though, the mixtape, his response to Cas’ death at the end of 12, subsequent grief arc, and reaction to Cas’ return in the front half of 13 rank highly. His reaction to Lucifer’s prank call in 15x19 might rate, but maybe just because it’s so recent.)

not trying to be unkind here, but i quite genuinely don’t see any of these examples as framing cas and dean in a romantic light, or as hinting at a “what if”. the mixtape is like.... okay, maybe. i had read that as being symbolic of something else, but i can see wanting to read it from a shipping lens. (i don’t however think i’d read it as baiting or “what if” - it was quite textually not framed that way. shipping, 100%, but canon build-up, not for me).

for the other examples -- grieving for someone you consider family? and being happy when they come back? that’s not shippy to me. i mean - contrast the grief he showed over cas’s death compared to his grief over, say, mary? or, less extreme, charlie? and nothing compared to how off the rails he goes when sam is dead or he thinks sam is. so i -- i just can’t see those as creating a narrative that demands a follow-through. and when your friend who is dead calls your phone? of course you hop to the door - i don’t know what is romantic about that. sam would’ve hopped just as quick if “cass” had called his phone instead.

and look - i see what is fun to ship about all that. if i shipped it, i’d be happily collecting these moments with a smile and grinning to myself about how cute they are and much they mean. but shipping it vs. it being romantically framed in the canon are two fundamentally different things. shipping doesn’t imply narrative buy-in or deliberation from the creator.

moving on, you also spoke at length about 15x18:

15x18 made the sort of statement that drew back even people who did exactly what OP said they should do, turning off the TV years ago. It wasn’t a quiet “if you’re still watching, keep waiting,” so much as a shouted “hey we’re gonna do this thing, watch this!”

i guess destiel fans vs. those of us who don’t ship it really see this as fundamentally different. because you discuss that moment as one which requires follow-through, and say that if this were heteronormative m/f love declaration, there would be that expectation of follow-through. not necessarily reciprocity, but more - more conversation, more acknowledgment, more something.

(i mean - if there was more, but that more was “hey i love you too but only platonically, sorry man” would that be better?)

but no - i actually just... disagree with your point on that front. i can see why you feel the way you do and i acknowledge that it can be read as the start of a conversation. to me though -- and clearly, now that the finale is out, how the writers saw it -- that was actually the end of a conversation. the end of, like you pointed out, 12 years. a 12-year conversation that ends in a gorgeous declaration of love, and specifically how love isn’t about being together, it’s simply about being - it’s about the fact that you love someone, and that feeling alone is the most beautiful thing in existence.

to me, that declaration can only be written and interpreted as an ending.  a sacrifice, a declaration, and a goodbye. so - while i kind of expected seeing more people in episode 20 and realize that didn’t happen largely due to covid - i’m not disappointed we didn’t see cas, because that culmination of his narrative (and then knowing he was with jack, after, rebuilding the heaven that he rebelled against and finally completing his narrative circle by fixing all the problems with it alongside the good god he sought to find all along) is kind of perfect. 

and i genuinely don’t think if cas was in a female vessel this entire time that that would change. maybe some audience members would feel differently, but i think many of us would see it for the end it was nonetheless. there’s plenty of stories with m/f ships that are one-sided and that character sacrifices themselves for the person they love, so i don’t see why this would be any different (except the bury your gays issue, but that’s a whole other and very real conversation about media tropes).

moving on to the series finale.

As many people have pointed out in praise of 15x20, Sam is the absolute most important thing in Dean’s life, his priority above anything and everything… And yet there, at the actual end of the world, Dean ignores Sam’s call and instead cries over the loss of Castiel. Dean’s loss of Castiel plays in tandem with the loss of literally the whole world. But we’re not to take that as a promise that Castiel means more to this story, or to Dean, than a couple seconds of wistfulness after the dust settles?

I... yeah. i don’t see what this even is arguing. that dean taking a minute to himself to grieve his best friend, who just died in part because dean decided to go hunt down billie (who was literally dying anyway). he’s hurting. there’s nothing about this that’s a promise - it’s an end. it’s grief. it’s the horror of losing someone you care about, and the silence that comes after. it’s fundamentally human in it’s pain. and we, the audience, are invited to grieve with dean.

so I mean - of course cas means more to this story. of course he’s meant more than a few seconds of grief, after 12 years. but just because that’s the last time we see him on screen doesn’t mean we don’t value his story, and celebrate how it too came full circle.

You mention cas as a sort of avatar for a different potential ending for the brothers, and highlight him representing:

An ending where higher powers stop yanking them around and they get to actually live in the life they’ve built for themselves.

So while i never considered cas an avatar for that, i do think we all wanted the brothers to have their freedom. “finally free.” so we can agree on wanting that end. but we disagree on whether it was delivered, i guess? because i feel it was.

you also talk about what you and many other fans conceivably wanted a happier ending to look like. can i -- i’m going to be totally honest. i have not seen a single person who’s critiquing the end saying “i just wanted sam and dean to grow old hunting together with their dog until they retire together and die of old age.”

would that be satisfying to those who are mad about the end? i personally don’t think so, but maybe my opinion is being coloured by the most vitriolic fans i’ve seen. if sam and dean got to have the life they wanted free of chuck, and dean didn’t die, and they kept going (or retired and opened a bar together!). maybe sam still had a kid, but again because romance wasn’t the point, the wife wasn’t important and they left her blurry still so we could interpret ourselves if she was a wife or a co-parent or a surrogate or what. maybe dean has a kid too, with a similar question-mark-wife. maybe we get a few images of them having a holiday with jodie and the girls. and then getting to heaven together in old age, greeting bobby with a beer, and going for a drive.

would that be an end that wouldn’t cause fandom uproar? i would enjoy it, soft an slightly discordant as it would be to me. i prefer the ending we got, bittersweet and heartbreaking though it was, but i wouldn’t be taking to social media to yell about it if we got a softer epilogue, so to speak.

on the other hand... would that still not be enough, at least not for so many of the angry fans? i’m genuinely unsure. it seems to me that so much of the ire is about destiel itself, even if people are pretending it’s about more and other things than that. not everyone, but like, a big portion of them. which leads me to believe that nothing short of dean and cas at least interpretable as together is what they wanted. if every other single thing about the existing finale was the same except that cas was the one to greet dean instead of bobby, and even with the same basic dialogue, without discussing the confession, but they have a lingering smile, and dean leaves to drive and wait for sam with the promise he’ll see cas later - 

if everything else stayed the same except who greeted dean, i genuinely don’t believe i’d be seeing almost any critique of the finale on my dash. maybe i’m cynical, but that’s where i’m at.

which is part of why i really struggle to believe that people are engaging in good faith when they critique the finale. because i feel like if it offered them either a) everything they’re purportedly asking for but still no cas and zero hint of destiel, vs. b) every other thing they claim to hate stays the same except there’s a wink and nod to destiel - i believe they would take the wink and nod. 

   On to some other things you raised:

But how can you know to walk away from a tragedy if the tragedy says “the end won’t be a tragedy, keep watching” right up until it ends in tragedy?

Oh i Get this. I hate thinking i’m consuming fun media only for it to rip my heart out at the end. i’ve literally - well, i’ve had a very unpleasant and distressing experience of this, actually. so i get it. also the opposite: i sometimes feel disappointed when i’m consuming media that is gripping and intense and painful, but then the end is too easy, too soft and happy?

BUT - supernatural never pretended it would have a happy end? the end was so. much. happier. than i ever expected. the Swan Song end was going to have Sam in hell being tortured by lucifer for eternity. according to something i read which i am fundamentally too lazy to link because who knows if it would have turned out this way but -- kripke was apparently going to have Dean jump in the cage with him at that end, if the series ended on S5? the ‘horror’ ending. completely devastating sacrifice for mankind (sam), and completely devastating sacrifice for his brother (dean). just -- oof. even if that wasn’t the plan and the series would��ve ended as the episode did - sam was still in the cage and cas was off waging war in heaven and dean was living every day knowing he was alive and his brother was being tortured.

i’m sorry if you thought you were watching a happier show. i know how much that hurts. that doesn’t mean the story was actually that happy though. sometimes, it’s on us as consumers to acknowledge we were misreading the media. i’ve had to do this. it’s hard, it hurts, but it helps you consume things healthier. i’ve had to do this growing recently, and i’m better off for it.

regarding the specific manner of dean’s death - that’s really not what my post was about and i’m not gonna address it here. i’ve talked about it elsewhere and so have others, and @lovetincture‘s original post spelled it out beautifully, in how human it was. i have feelings on how and why i loved dean’s death, and why it was the absolute opposite of what Chuck’s ending was and what he wanted (no blaze of glory), but i’ll leave those for another time.

They cast aside all the relationships they’ve built. [...] They lost/walked away from the life and home they built in the bunker. Dean got a season 1 death. Sam got a season 1 life.

I feel that there is a very huge difference between regression and progression when it comes to cyclical storytelling. And that difference seems to be missing from the ongoing discussions i’ve seen about this in fandom.

Coming full circle to season 1 does not at all mean that the development is ‘undone’ or that the story has regressed or that anything has been lost or destroyed. It can mean that, if the storyteller doesn’t know what the hell they’re doing, but in this case i don’t (personally) feel it’s a fair critique.

Dean’s death might parallel his s1 not-quite death from Faith, but the s15 result of that death is night and day. Dean is no longer alone. Dean does not go up to a lonely heaven filled with bittersweet memories, where even his canonical soulmate and him have wide gulfs between the memories they fill their shared heaven with. Dean dies a hunter, but he dies a hunter who literally saved earth and changed heaven and gets to spend eternity with his brother, side-by-side and together without all the pain and miscommunication, and he gets to see his family and loved ones too. he died having literally made the world so much better.

even without that though?

his story comes full circle, but dean’s character development isn’t about his death, it’s about the fact that in the first several seasons dean could hardly admit he cared without acting like his teeth were being pulled. he was too afraid of abandonment to ask for someone to be by his side. he was too afraid of rejection to let anyone in. and in the end? he asks sam to stay. he tells him that he loves him. he pours his heart out and says all the things that 15 years ago were stoppered in his throat, words trying and failing to claw their way free but his hurt and fears were too deep.

dean is free.

the point of dean’s story coming full circle to season 1 parallels was specifically to highlight this incredible development, not to undermine it. he is different. he is free. 

god it makes me tear up just thinking about how happy i am for him despite how gutted i was by that scene??

(i could write a similar analysis for sam, about how he left for stanford to escape his life and how his finale life montage bits were the opposite of that, but honestly this post is long enough already).

Destiel is loosely a part of that promise in the sense that Castiel is a part of that promise. The symbol of free will

You make a super interesting argument about Cas being a symbol of free will. I don’t have much to say about it, because I’m gonna mull it over, because I think it’s kinda cool and I’ve never thought about it.

That’s - all i’ve got. thanks again for engaging. i’m happy to continue the convo if you have questions or want to reblog/reply 

(though my followers might hate me omg, i’ve been spamming long spn meta posts for weeks now, it’s just been so confronting to see the ongoing fan reaction on twitter and how divided it is...)

[earbuds-and-hightops]

An Open Letter to Supernatural

[ Spoiler warning for 15x20, obviously ]

I understand that a well-contemplated complaint about this ending cannot be made without first reading the original, pre-COVID, script of 15x20, but in the long run, the initial plan is not what will be remembered. 

What will be remembered is what this show created. What it became beyond two brothers driving around the country, hunting monsters. Characters were introduced and developed, and in that, Sam and Dean Winchester become so much more than two kids living on the road. In the past 15 years, the cast, and thus the family, grew to something that would be unimaginable to those who started this project back in 2005. Not only did the characters and their stories become meaningful, but the show itself grew into, well, a family. The fans who have kept this show alive since Day 1 have come together to form what I believe is the greatest community in pop culture. 

What hurts the most is that this finale did not do any of that development justice. 

The finale (and consequently the episodes leading up to it) reverts back to the story between only Sam and Dean. While some see this as an ode to who they are--their brotherhood and familial bond being the heart of their values and the root of their characters--I cannot help but see this as a rejection of their experiences this past decade and a half. 

What’s worse, episode 15x18 confirmed one of the most pure and powerful and goddamn beautiful romances that television will ever see. This story of an angel who abandoned his family and the only beings he’s known for thousands of years, all for one person. I knew from the instant the screen faded to black on November 5 that the story of Castiel will always be remembered, even if his feelings were unrequited. Castiel will always be remembered. 

And then there’s Destiel. I was genuinely impressed that this show would even grow to include a queer angel, more importantly, a queer character in a leading role. The queer-baiting and the “bury your gays” trope both make this confession and its lack of acknowledgement that much worse (and is worthy of an entirely separate open letter for another night). It matters less if Dean does or doesn’t reciprocate these feelings and more that it’s wrong that he completely ignores it. Cas’s love confession, this beautifully tragic and tragically beautiful emotion coming from a being who wasn’t supposed to feel emotions at all, is something that, unfortunately, will become a secret that dies with Dean Winchester. 

It’s truly a shame that the writers of this show let that happen. 

We haven’t even touched the fact that Castiel’s death was an act of sacrifice to save Dean. Dean’s limited reaction and lack of mourning* tears apart this phrase that has become pivotal to the entire show and fanbase: “Family don’t end in blood.” While it would be a lot to ask that Dean rescue Cas from the Empty and resume their cycle of rescue and resurrection, I think it’s only fair that Dean take the time to fully accept Castiel’s actions and words for what they mean instead of simply moving forward as if they never happened.

What’s more, Misha Collins is one of the greatest and kindest people in this world, and he’s poured his heart and soul into Supernatural, just like everybody else. He’s spent 12 years on this project, and the final two episodes hardly mentioned his character. He didn’t deserve this. It’s heartbreaking that his last credit on this show will be a prank call from someone trying to impersonate him, and not something that pays tribute to such an important character and important actor**

The most devastating part of this ending is what happened in 15x19. Pardon my French when I say that that episode, the ultimate climax of the season and latter half of the series, was a piece of dog shit. It’s incredibly frustrating to invest in 15 years worth of television and look forward to this ultimate battle between two average boys and God the Almighty Himself and to instead watch a 6-minute long fist fight on the beach with the only dialogue being variations of “seriously guys, stay down.” 

My issues with 15x19 lie less in the storyline that was chosen and more in how they were presented. I am completely on board with Jack taking God’s power and eventually becoming the new God, but the episode was far too quick to have any real meaning, and, as stated before, Castiel’s sacrifice, which allows Sam, Dean, and Jack to do what they do in 15x19, is hardly mentioned.

Most fans agree that 15x19 was far too quickly paced. The plot with Michael and Lucifer was questionable to begin with, but should have been an episode on its own if it were to be perused at all. Michael’s story in particular could have been fleshed out to reiterate this theme of overly loyal sons and their fathers, as well as their relationships with less loyal siblings, but was instead reduced to about 20 minutes of screen time. 

Though this is less important, Lucifer’s plan to make a new Death felt like a cheap cop-out just to close the storyline with Death’s book, but we can finish that discussion another day. 

The general fan reaction to this atrocity of an episode was that this was meta, and according to Becky, the ending was supposed to be dog shit. This, along with the untouched storyline started when Cas died, gave fans so much hope that the finale would be this amazing piece of art that puts Supernatural in the history books. 

While it’s obvious that an hour cannot perfectly tie up every single event and arc with a pretty little bow, it can at least...try. Any finale should, at minimum, pay tribute to what the show started as (which 15x20 did well) and what it became (which 15x20 failed to do miserably). 

In addition, a reference to character back in season 1 is incredibly frustrating when recurring characters with actual, well, character go unnoticed. I mostly reference Eileen here, but this also applies to Jody and Donna. Nobody even mentions the other wonderful friends who have helped Sam and Dean along their journey to Heaven. If family doesn’t end in blood, then why doesn’t it extend to include Castiel, Jack, Mary, Rowena, Charlie, Kevin, Jody and her girls, Donna, and so many others?

Dean’s death was sad, I’ll give them that (and honestly, I was expecting it). However, considering that this man has defeated apocalypses, killed Death, and taken down God, his death via nail in the wall was incredibly anticlimactic, and something that could literally have happened at any point over the 15 seasons. While Dean’s death was obviously not my ideal ending, I think it could have worked if it were done properly, and in this case, it was not. That said, I do appreciate that Sam did not try to bring Dean back, as that would indicate literally no growth at all.

Dean’s funeral was...pathetic, to say the least. Sam being the only person there was depressing considering that Dean had lots of other close friends (and you’d think that Jack would pay his respects, but apparently not), however, this is likely a scene that was impacted by COVID and the availability of some of the cast, so I will not dwell on that scene.

Dean’s time in Heaven complicates matters even more. Firstly, Bobby confirms that Castiel is no longer in the Empty and has been in contact with Jack. I would have loved to see this reunion; Cas is essentially Jack’s father, and I would have loved to see how their upgrading/remodeling of Heaven brought them closer together. I understand that the writers were trying to focus this finale story on the brothers, this goes back to my earlier point that you cannot simply ignore everything that that this show has grown to include. Bobby’s explanation also begs the question of why Dean had no intention of seeing Cas (or Jack, for that matter) again now that he has the opportunity.

Secondly, Dean’s instinct to go directly for the Impala was very in-character, however, the editing implied that driving was all Dean did until Sam died. As we know, Sam dies of old age, likely (completely guessing here) upwards of 40-50 years from Dean’s death, and that is a very, very long time for Dean to simply driving around the mountains. It would have been nice to see Dean reunite with other family and friends who are also in Heaven, however, again, COVID restraints.

Sam’s ending was similar to what I and a lot of other fans imagined (not necessarily wanted, but predicted) it to be: kids and a wife, living a normal, monster-free, life. I hate to believe that he doesn’t end up with Eileen (to my recollection, his wife was a blur in the background, and it is unclear if she was meant to be Eileen) however that might just be my bias and appreciation of Shoshannah Stern. While I’m glad that this storyline gave Sam the room to grow and develop without his brother, it also completely ignores everything that he’s been through this past decade and a half, and that is something that should not happen. Sam grew and changed so much since he left Stanford and leaving that life, the life of a hunter, behind feels very counterintuitive.

Let’s not even discuss the wig that Jared wore. It reminded me of the Cain wig that Rob wore in the Hillywood parody.

What shocked me the most at the beginning of this episode was the lack of a “The Road So Far” compilation. I hoped for the full song with a recap of all 15 seasons, or, at minimum, the typical single-season recap. “Carry On My Wayward Son” is such an important part of the show and the culture of the fan base, that it seems almost sacrilegious that the season finale not begin with this song and a memorial to the events in the past season (or series).*** I’m very happy that it was included at all, but I was shocked when Neoni’s cover took over.

No disrespect to Neoni; those girls are incredibly talented and I love their music, however, a series finale of a 15 season long show does not feel like the place for a cover when they already have the rights to the original, and the original is so iconic.

Lastly, I want to acknowledge Jensen Ackles’s reaction to this conclusion. At a con panel about a year ago, he said that he needed to be talked into agreeing to this script by Erik Kripke himself, because the ending just wasn’t sitting right with him. So many fans took this to believe that he was homophobic and afraid that of Destiel becoming fully canon, and he got so much more hate than he deserved, because ultimately, he was right in his first opinion. This isn’t the way this story should have ended. Jensen explained that he had been “too close” to the story, and that it took a more holistic view from a step backwards (the audience’s perspective, as he puts it) to agree on this ending, but honestly, nobody knows Dean Winchester better than Jensen, and he knows what’s best and what would be the best way to finish this character’s arc. I think fans and Jensen alike agree that this wasn’t it.

I sympathize with all of the cast and crew members who disagree with how this show ended but are bounded by contract to support this show no matter what. Especially Misha and Jensen.

Over all, I believe that Supernatural will go down in history (in internet communities, at least) as one of the greatest shows ever. While I do agree that the writing quality in terms of both dialogue and plot declined as years passed, the community, the family, that this show created cannot be ignored because of a poorly written/planned ending. I think that the fandom will collectively let go of this disaster of an ending that we were given and will, just like Sam and Dean, write our own stories. I have full faith and confidence that Supernatural will not be represented by this finale episode, but by the beautiful stories, amazing characters, and the family that this show created and what the fans have chosen to do with it.

Sincerely,

A Fiercely Frustrated but Fiercely Loyal Fan

* I do not count that last clip of Dean crying on the floor as mourning. In my mind, that was a reaction, not an emotional healing and overcoming, if that makes sense. I argue that if Dean were to fully mourn and process everything (like Sam did in 15x20) we would have seen at least a bit of that on screen. 

** This is where I would have loved to see some of the original scripts. I hope that the writers initial intentions were to have Misha more involved in these last two episodes than what was likely a voice memo created in 10 minutes tops at Misha’s house.

*** The strange montage at the end of 15x19 makes so much more sense. I still would have preferred that montage at the beginning of 15x20. This also shines light on the video that Misha posted. What would we do without him :)

[waywardnerd67]

TFWB - Chap 26 Family Gathering

Summary: The family gathers together for a long overdue celebration. Characters: Jensen Ackles, Jared Padalecki, Misha Collins, Rachel Sanderson (OFC), Molli Sanderson (OFC), Reader Pairing: Jensen x Reader / Jared x Rachel (OFC) / Misha x Molli (OFC) Warnings: Fluff/AU Word Count: 1010 Squared Filled: Free Space A/N #1: This is for @spnfluffbingo​ card

Check out: The Family We Built Masterlist

The music was thumping throughout the old barn. Laughter could be heard echoing through the cool night air. Drinks were being passed around along with slices of cake. (Y/N) was sitting on the back of an old Chevy pick up watching all the members of her family having a wonderful time.

“You know the Bride is supposed to be in there dancing and drink the night away.” Rachel hopped up on the truck next to her with a bottle of champagne.

“Move over sis, I’m joining the bridal party.”

Molli sat next to Rachel as the three of them passed the bottle between them. They watched the guests dancing and the kids starting to fall asleep at various tables.

“I never thought this day would finally come. It took you two so damn long to get together then two years to get married. Talk about your slow burn.” Rachel chuckled, taking a drink then passing it to Molli.

She took a drink, “I lost five bucks to Misha saying we would be married before them.”

“Alright, alright. I’m married now and if you remember we had to postpone our original wedding date because Jensen released another book. Then another Padababy came along.”

Rachel stole the bottle from her, “Once again, Jared’s little soldiers are just too strong for any kind of resistance.”

“Ugh!” (Y/N) and Molli groaned.

“Fellas, I do believe our ladies have decided to have their own little party without us.” Jared climbed over the side of the truck sitting behind Rachel.

Misha stood between Molli’s legs while Jensen helped (Y/N) off the truck, “Oh yeah. Rachel was just telling us all about Jared’s little soldiers breaking down her defenses.”

“(Y/N)!” Rachel yelled as Jensen led her away from the group laughing hysterically.

“Where are we going handsome?”

He was leading her out past their barn into the middle of their empty land. They had decided to move out from Austin thirty minutes to the west in Dripping Springs. Jensen had a house built for them that included having a barn with the intent of one day having some animals on their land.

He wrapped his arms around her waist resting his chin on her shoulder, “Remember, the first conversation we ever had on this property?”

***

“What do you think?” He asked as they stood in the middle of hundred acres of land.

“I think it’s perfect. The house could be over there and a path to a barn. One day we could have horses and goats.” She wrapped her arms around his waist as they looked out over the land.

Jensen pointed to a large tree, “I could build a treehouse there for when we have kids.”

She sucked in a breath stepping away from him. It was a conversation she had been trying to build up the courage to talk to him about and never finding the right time. Seemed life created a moment pushing her to tell him the only secret she ever kept from him.

“Jensen, about that…” she started as he started to walk towards the tree.

He chuckled, “Pretty girl, we don’t have to have the kid conversation yet. Let’s get through the house build and the wedding whenever they may happen. We can just keep on practicing to baby making steps.”

“There’s something I need to tell you that… that could make you change your mind about the whole house and marriage thing.”

He stopped turning towards her, “There is nothing you could say that would make me change my mind. I want to spend the rest of my life with you no matter what.”

“I can’t have children.” Saying the words out loud held such a finality for her.

“W-What?”

The tears she was trying to hold back fell down her cheeks, “My body doesn’t produce the eggs to have children. If… if you marry me then we will never have our own children.”

Looking up, her heart broke seeing the disappointment in his eyes. She should have told him way before now but she did not want to admit she was broken, damaged goods.

“You mean when I marry you.” Jensen reached out taking her hand and pulling her to him, “Where that news is shocking and I’m going to need some time to process that. There is no question as to if I’m going to marry you. It’s only a question of when I’m going to marry you.”

(Y/N) could not believe what she was hearing, “You’re really okay with never having your own biological children?”

“Will you be in my life?” She nodded, “Then yes, I am okay with not having my own kids.”

A sob escaped her lips as she hugged him tightly, “You’re truly an amazing man.”

***

“Yes, I do. Why?” She turned in his arms clasping her hand behind his neck.

“During our honeymoon in Europe, I would like to begin the process of adopting a child from the Ukraine. I’ve already started the process here but we had to be married before going over there.”

(Y/N) stood there stunned as Jensen nervously chewed on his bottom lip, “Say something.”

“Just when I think you can’t possibly surprise me with something, you do. Yes. Yes, yes, yes!”

Jensen picked her up and twirled her around, “Oh my god, I was terrified to ask you about it. I love you.”

“I love you too. Now let’s go tell the rest of our family.”

They walked back to the barn where Jared, Rachel and their two kids along with Misha, Molli and Zalyn were all huddled together outside.

“Everyone, we would like to tell you something.” Jensen announced catching all of their attention.

(Y/N) smiled widely, “We’re going to adopt a child!” Everyone started cheering and hugging them.

That is when their photographer came by asking to take their picture together, “One, two, three, Family!”

“Family!”

That was exactly what they were. Not by blood or by marriage, but a family they chose. A family they built.

The End

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[themanicgalaxy]

SPN 4X1 Lazarus Rising

I did not need to look to know the title

I have my hot cocoa, the big screen, a blanket, a cat and the crushing weight of my sins

that is totally enough separation

let’s go see the crazy bee man

YOU SHOOK ME ALL NIGHT LONG IS THE FUCKING OPENING CARD I’M CRYING

IS IT ALWAYS GONNA BE AN ACDC SONG 

OH HELL YEAH

oh my god this TORTURE SEQUENCE HOLY FUCK

seriously 40 years he would not be well adjusted

did he scream “help” for forty years??

I can’t believe they actually fucking buried Jensen for this scene, I CANNOT

the visuals are HELLA EXCELLENT

this kinda looks like the field he dreamed about in the opening of the finale

oh my GOD THE VISUALS THE VISUALS THE VISUALS THE TREES THE CROSS THE SHADOW AAAAA

And yes, he does look very good

the hair looks great, not gonna lie

MISHACOLINS MISHA COLLINS M I S H A FUCKING C O L L I N  S 

How long has it been? three months or so I think?

the flashback to the torture, the no scars

THE HANDPRINT!! THE HANDPRINT THE HANDPRINT!

Boy what must this have been like live

Of course Busty Asian Beauties

the static? the radio that keeps going on?

is this why he calls it angel radio

Local Eldritch Abomination wants to say hi

poor Dean is hardcore panicking oof

and he tries all of the phones

no they’re not gonna believe it’s you Dean

~hotwires a car~

*goes after Dean*

“you’re about the closest thing I have to a father” AWWWWWw

THE FACT THAT BOBBY KEEPS TRYING TO STAB HIM

Aw man and you just got rid of all your scars

AWWWWW

NO THIS REUNION SCENE IS MAKING ME TEAR UP

He still had to try the holy water thing

HE LOOKED SO DONE IT WAS SO FUNNY

YEAH I KNOW IT’S BECAUSE IT WAS HALF LUBE

F O U R MONTHS

~lights out~ you’re lying, you have to be lying

and of course Sam goes angsting away like in mystery spot

poor Bobby

~this force, this presence~ I wonder wHo ThaT couLD bE

they’re convinced it’s whatever the fuck Sam did

“what don’t I know about that kid”

Bobby’s been drinking? aw? I mean terrible coping mechanism but

Is this Gen? I don’t know who’s who

So Sam wasn’t expecting

AHAHA BACK TO THE TRYING TO KILL HIM

“I’ve been through this already” AHAHAHA

what happened to his(Sam’s) hair it used to be fluffier

ah once again the *they’re dating* joke why did they keep doing that

...is Sam trying to,,,,become Dean...?

it...wasn’t Sam...Ohoho who could it be?

We all fucking know who it is where is ya fucking boy

this thing is a whodunit of who brought him back

So Sam’s been...spiraling

“who do you think you are, your old man” B U R N 

they’re doing the “did we bring him all the way back

MISSOURI???? PLEASE BE MISSOURI

AW HE’S WEARING THE SAMULET AWWWW

“I don’t remember a damn thing” YOU’rE LYING YOU HAVE TO BE LYING

oh yeah, he’s lying

remarkably well adjusted for forty years in the pit tho

AHAHA THE IPOD JACK

*chucks it behind him*

Sam you have psychic powers don’t you think you should explore that

“you didn’t want me to so I didn’t” oof

Dean takes *fear of the unknown* pretty far

No it’s the lady who calls Dean out?

Pamela Barnes

Does everyone know them as Bobby’s Boys that’s so cute

is that a ramones...shirt?

it’s a Band Shirt I just don’t know what 

the decor is like hard rock cafe y but cooler

ok so they flirt back and forth I see 

that’s a pretty big burn damn

C A S T I E L 

Please tell me she doesn’t die

Oh god he true forms her??

HER EYES ARE BURNED OUT WHAT THE FUCK

oho Diner Bar full of demons

and turns out the lock, fun

~to hell and back

the smile with “I’m not lying”

Aw it’s like he doesn’t normally have a good rebuttal

Fiercely Powerful Castiel that terrifies even the demons

OH RIGHT SERAPHS ARE LIKE SUPER SUPER POWERFUL RIGHT

Boy he’s seriously just...unphased now

“the smarter brother’s back in town” DAMN why is he so much more confident

Hell...really did a number on him

VISUALSSSS

THE FUCKING EVERYTHING GOING HAYWIRE

Cas just...doesn’t know how to talk to his crush, it’s fine

Local Wavelength of Celestial Intent just keeps breaking windows

And Dean’s Goddamn Ears apparently

oh wait it’s just Bobby and Dean oHO I KNOW WHERE THIS IS GOING

*we’re gonna get food* THEY DID IT BOTH WAYS YOU FUCKING-

COMMUNICATION

HE SWIPED THE KNIFE 

THE K N I F E 

they’re already burned out oh boy

They’re fucking blinded

BOY THEY FUCKING WENT A P E S H I T WITH HOW POWERFUL CAS IS

SAM JUST....PSYCHICALLY EXORCISED SOMEONE?? WOW??

DAMN that was neat

Oh is this Ruby? AH RUBY

dammit I wanna know what Sam’s been doing

BOY THEY’RE FUCKING B U I L D I N G THIS 

THE SHEER A M O U NT OF SIGILS

ooo VISUALS

Sam did you ask her why she’s so dead set on helping you

OHOHOHOHOHO

THE CLACKING SCARED MINA

DWIHRAWPAIHPAS

FUCK YES

they rly made Misha say “gripped you tight and raised you from perdition” huh

yes hurt Bobby that’s gonna help

I’m An anGel oF the Lord

HEY REMEMBER HOW ANGELS WERE ON YOUR BULLSHIT LIST

HE D O E S HAVE FAITH JUST NOT IN YOU

HE’s SO SMALL AND SCRUFFY LOOKING 

Holy Tax Accountant

“he actually prayed for this” KILLE DME JIMMY YOU FOOLE

“you don’t think you deserve to be saved” OH MY G O D 

AAHAHHHHHHHHHH

wrap up:

1. I wanna know more about Sam’s thing when Dean was gone, I’m intrigued to see what’s gonna happen next

2. Dean’s Startlingly Appalling Self Worth Issues come in, are back, and AT FULL SWING. the “you don’t think you deserve to be saved” followed by the micro expressions? O U C H

3. I do appreciate how they kept building the suspense, and how powerful they showed Castiel to be

4. CASSSS!! CASTIEL!!! ANGEL OF THEE LORD! ! HE LOOKS SO GODDAMN YOUNG IN THIS SEASON IT IS Y A B OY AHHHHH

I HAVE BEEN WAITING FOR THIS MOMENT FOR THREE MONTHS IT IS HERE WELCOME TO C A S T I E L TI M E O NL Y 

is he only in like three episodes? sure

BUT IT’S STILL YA BOI 

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

[alleiradayne]

Cowboys and Angels

A COCKLES X READER RPF SERIES

Filming for the last season of Supernatural is underway and Y/N, long-time set photographer, finds herself the center of attention for two of her co-workers, Misha Collins and Jensen Ackles. A roller-coaster of emotions ensues over the year as the three of them attempt to balance work, the end of an era, and experimental love.

Part VI - Sharing

Summary: After a less than stellar holiday break, Y/N returns to set with the weight of the world on her shoulders. Warnings/Tags: A lot of angst, with a tiny ray of hope. Characters/Pairings: Jensen Ackles, Misha Collins, Reader Word Count: 1,956 A/N: Once again, please assume everyone involved is consenting and polyamorous. No spouse hate. No wife hate. No Cockles hate. No Misha hate. No hate whatsoever. If you don’t like RPF, don’t read it, and don’t complain to me about it. Update: The oh-so-lovely @atc74 made this stellar aesthetic for me in hopes that it wouldn’t get the Tumblr Ban Hammer™. Let’s test it.

Days. Weeks. Then months. Like water from a sieve, the brief moments Y/N spent with Jensen and Misha—naked or otherwise—drained away. Too many fourteen-hour days. Too many sleepless nights. But that had not been her breaking point. No. Farm from it. At least at work, she might hold a long stare, linger too long in conversation, or merely savor their presence in silence. Hell, she might have even fucked in their trailers the two men that had irrevocably altered her life.

At least at work, they were together.

As Y/N stared at the unopened presents beneath her withering Christmas tree, she sighed. Holiday break had come and gone. No plans. No phone call. Not even a text. They hadn't even sent her anything. Not that she had held any sort of expectations. Given the whirlwind start to their relationship and their exhausting work schedules, they had hardly taken the time to talk much beyond work or the rules of their encounters. Small talk, sure. But never anything about plans. Forget the future.

But the future came and went. And during those few months, Y/N's worst fears plagued her restless mind. Too many questions lingered unanswered in the darkest recesses of her thoughts. She had imagined something that was not there, could never be there. Love was an entirely different game. What they had played was lust, gotten their fill, and were over it. Nothing more. Nothing less.

Even in the days leading up to their return to set, the mere thought of facing them again soured her stomach. Where the holidays had dragged, the last week had passed in a blur of days. Mired in the unknown, Y/N floundered. What had kept them from her? Why leave her so stranded?

By her final Sunday night off, she had worried her nerves down to frayed ends. So, when Y/N walked back on set the following morning, she was determined to find both Jensen and Misha to end whatever it was that they had shared.

Unless there was nothing to end. Maybe that was what they had wanted. A short time play partner to scratch a sudden itch. Nothing wrong with that. As much as she hated it, she could handle it.

The thud of her bag on the folding table echoed through the cavernous soundstage. Several eyes snapped to her, voices quieted and smiles fading. Of course, they all felt it. With seven episodes left to film, everyone felt the looming end of the show. But none of them felt it the way she did. None of them felt the love, the deep passion, and the betrayal she felt. She ignored them.

Much like she ignored the confident warmth that enveloped her shoulder. Misha had found her before she had even managed to set up shop.

“Hey, Y/N.”

When she turned to look at him, his inviting smile melted faster than snow in July. “Hey.”

“Okay, we need to ta—”

“There’s really nothing to talk about,” she interrupted. “Y'all needed something from me, now you don’t. Pretty fucking simple.”

“No, please—” he started, but she wrenched free of his embrace and returned to her task. When she remained focused there despite his insistence, Misha ran both hands through his hair as he looked across the soundstage as though searching for something. Or someone. “No, it’s not that simple at all. It’s incredibly complicated and we should have talked about it sooner. Let me—”

“You know, we could have done this before the holidays,” Y/N stated. “Or right after. While we were still on hiatus. I didn’t hear from either of you for a month and a half. Not even a text message to let me know you were okay.”

Misha grimaced. “I know, Y/N, and that was wrong. We should not have done that to you. We… did not plan on any of this. It wasn’t supposed to happen. This wasn’t supposed to be long-term.”

She rounded on him then. “Then what was it supposed to be?! A fling?! A temporary fuck buddy?! What?!”

He waited. Bless his heart, he waited for her to finish her tirade. When she calmed, he said, “A lover. The intent was no one-night stand. There was never going to be anything temporary about this. Please, Y/N come with me. We’ll find Jensen and we’ll talk in my trailer.”

Suspicion narrowed her glare as she considered Misha out of the corner of her eye. When her bag sat empty on the folding table, Y/N turned to him and spoke.

“Let’s get this over with.”

Mirrors. Why did they have so many mirrors in their trailers?

Carbon copies of each other, Misha and Jensen’s trailers were nearly indiscernible. Except for their scent. Jensen’s smelled of heather, pine, and sea salt, whereas Misha’s smelled of leather and citrus. And on those distinct aromas rode memories, each more salacious than the one that preceded it.

As she sat on the couch and stared at the mirror beside the TV, those memories flooded her senses. Cold glass on her tits. Misha’s hand between her thighs as he torqued one arm behind her back. Her skirt shoved up over her hips. Underwear wrenched aside. And his cock pounding her pussy until she came.

It should have aroused her. Should have sent that familiar rush down her spine. But as she waited for Misha to return to his trailer, she felt nothing. A little anxious. But mostly nothing.

That thought settled in the resigned recesses of her mind the moment the trailer door crashed against the opposite wall and Jensen leaped over the threshold. Startled so, Y/N reared back and jumped from the couch. But when Jensen spotted her and their eyes met, all her doubts vanished.

In a rush of wind, he crossed the two steps between them. His massive hands slipped into her hair, cupped her head, and kissed her so tenderly, Y/N might have wept were it not for her surprise.

When he released her, Jensen remained close, so close his breath warmed her lips, her cheeks, and Y/N shivered despite the heat that swelled in his embrace. The moment lasted only that single breath, for Misha cleared his throat before he entered his trailer. The door clicked shut with a soft snap behind him as he stepped in, and he remained by the door with an expectant look on his face.

Jensen regarded him for a beat, then turned back to her. He even managed to frown prettily. Damn him. “I guess we're supposed to talk.”

“Jen.”

Y/N found Misha's stare darkened, serious as ever. “We do need to talk. Before this goes any further.

With a disgruntled sigh, Jensen dropped onto the couch beside her and took her hands in his. “I want to apologize first. For not staying in contact at all over break. That was... very disrespectful, considering our intentions.”

She glanced at Misha as she asked, “What are your intentions?” then returned to Jensen.

As though she balanced precariously at the edge of a cliff, Y/N waited with rapt attention, her wide eyes boring into his. And Jensen, bless his heart, stared back. Between his lips, his tongue slipped, wetting them before he spoke.

“To make this permanent.”

Permanent.

That word alone sounded odd as it echoed in her head. “Permanent,” she repeated. The weight of it slowed her speech, so heavy on her tongue. Undetermined seconds ticked by, so lost in her thoughts. She had anticipated this moment. But as she sat there in Misha’s trailer between Jensen and he, Y/N questioned her every thought, her every action, her every want since filming had started that season.

When she remained silent, Jensen regarded Misha with a sidelong stare. From the door, he said, “The holidays should not have happened how they did, Y/N.” A hesitant step bore him nearer the couch, as though he second guessed himself, but another more determined step closed the remaining gap and he sat beside her. “We were planning on having you visit. Meet family and the like.”

“But we dropped the ball,” Jensen interjected. “There were things we should have done first, a long time ago, before introducing you to anyone.”

“Why didn’t you?”

Jensen grunted a disgusted sound deep in his throat. “Because we’re awful. To be honest, I was scared. I wanted to tell my family in person, but I could never find the right opportunity. Which is unfair to you. There probably won’t be a ‘right’ time to explain this to anyone we care about.”

Y/N wrung her fingers into knots as she listened. “I appreciate the understanding.”

“Of course, we understand. We should have just done it,” Misha added. “But we didn’t.” He inched closer and grasped her free hand in both of his. “We love you dearly, Y/N. More than you could possibly imagine.”

“We’re equally shocked, trust me,” Jensen teased. “Misha just said it while he was making breakfast the other day and I broke my favorite mug when I dropped it in the sink.”

“You did not drop it because I said I loved Y/N, you dropped it—”

“Hey!”

Misha’s teeth clicked shut and Jensen’s voice caught in his throat. At least they listened well enough. “Are you trying to tell me you didn’t tell your families about me ahead of time and so that’s why you couldn’t… I don’t know, call me? Text me?”

“We should have,” Jensen stated. “None of the shit that kept me busy is worthy of your forgiveness. I should have texted you at the very least, if not called you to let you know everything was fine. Considering our short good-byes at the break party, it was the least we should have done.”

Misha nodded in agreement. “We’re jerks. We fucked up. But we still very much care for you. And we still want you to be in our lives. We hope you still want us in yours.”

At least they hadn’t intentionally ignored her. At least things made some sense. No, it wasn’t perfect. In fact, in the moment it all felt quite unforgivable. How could they expect her to move forward—with them, no less—after such a betrayal of trust? As if nothing had happened, a mere apology should fix it all?

To be honest with herself, a part of her wanted to walk away. Simple and clean. And yet, she loved them, much like they loved her. But did that mean she had to meet their families so soon?

Patient as ever, they waited for her to speak. Her rambling thoughts leaped from one to the next, and so, she said, “You didn’t give me your addresses. I couldn’t send the pile of gifts I got you, they’re all still sitting at my apartment…”

Misha groaned and Jensen palmed his forehead. “We should have. Can we make it up to you tonight? We also have several gifts for you.”

Before the holidays, gifts had felt like an unquestioned given. But there on the other side, they felt like complications. Strings. She sucked in a deep, clarifying breath and exhaled as she said, “On one condition.”

“Anything, Y/N,” Jensen insisted.

She couldn't help but smile at his enthusiasm. “Let's hold off on any family gatherings for a while. Make sure this is the real deal, give it some time.”

Misha laughed as he said, “Out of the three of us, you're going to be the most level-headed. We need that.”

Jensen agreed with his own short bark of laughter. “Deal. Now, how about those gifts? I've been dying to give you mine.”

“Whenever we wrap tonight, meet at my place?” She asked.

Misha grinned as he said, “It's a date.”

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COWBOYS AND ANGELS MASTER LIST ALLEIRADAYNE’S MASTER LIST

[nightingalefeminist]

Misha NEEDS to get his way or else...

So listen... @catatonic1242 and I went to VanCon this weekend and had the most amazing time! Not the least of which was our interaction with Misha in the autograph line. Let me give some backstory though because the context is needed trust me...

So my girl Ashley and I went to Seattle Con this year with Silver tickets right... so I bought a painting that I loved from an artist on here (@c-kaeru) and it happened to be a nude drawing of Castiel bleeding a rainbow of colors from his wings. It’s a gorgeous piece and I got it thinking it would be perfect for Misha to sign. WELL, we all know what happened at Seattle so I won’t go into it but long story short the weekend was canceled and I didn’t get any signatures.

Fast forward to VanCon (which I purchased using the Seattle refund money). I took the painting thinking nothing of it because, besides the canceled Seattle trip, the only other con I’ve gone to is Vegas which I didn’t have any autograph tickets for. At some point Ashley asks me what I have for Misha to sign so I tell her and after a moment of silence, in which the problem is starting to dawn on me, she asks me if she can see it. What I hadn’t thought about was the fact that they might not like that it’s a nude because it might make the celebrities feel uncomfortable. At THIS point I’m starting to panic because it was never my intention to make anyone uncomfortable and I hate doing stuff like that so I’m thinking I should probably change what I have signed.

ENTER ASHLEY AGAIN saying we can just cover the Angel junk with a sticky note or something and then if they ask we just tell them. Simple right? So we go all over this foreign city looking for a sticky note y’all, really just trying to find ANYTHING that will make it bareable for me to hand the thing over to be signed or not signed according to their rules. Only a few hours before the signing we found a random reception desk in an inside market that had a pad and we asked for one of the notes, which I trimmed down to fit nicely over this full-frontal dick (a beautifully drawn one mind you).

I’m STILL freaking out though because I’m a wreck in normal circumstances in front of these people but now I have to face possibly being rejected in front of my GISH overlord and favorite TV angel... anyway it comes time for the signing and Ashely has me go first because she wants to support me (but mostly she wants to watch what happens because she’s a turd).

I hand the drawing to the handler who looks at it and then looks at me and says “Is there something inappropriate under the sticky note?” Now... if I were actually trying to cause a scene I might’ve said something snarky like “what do you THINK is under it?!” But I’m being as meek as possible so they understand that im not trying to just cause problems and I say “it’s anatomically correct.” Ashley swears I said it with just a LITTLE bit of attitude because it was a nude drawing and what did the lady *think* was under the sticky note?!? But I honestly can’t remember how I said it because I think I started to black out.

So the handler says “we’re not supposed to sign stuff like this” all while Misha is leaning over trying to grab it from her. Once she says this he says “don’t be fucking stupid” and finally gets the drawing from her. Then I step up to him and as I do he takes the sticky note off and I’m pretty sure I fucking DIED ok, like I don’t like confrontation and he just cursed at his handler because of what I’ve brought to sign and now he’s about to see a rendering of his character’s DONG ok!!! Jesus I’m blushing just thinking about it. So He looks at it for a second, signs his name RIGHT UNDER THE ANGELIC PENIS, and then writes something in parenthesis that I can’t read because I’m dead. However I do notice that the handler reads it and she snorts at whatever is there.

Now, Ashley, standing right next to me, reads it and chuckles so Misha winks at her and then hands me the painting. I didn’t actually see the wink part she told me this after. Anywhoooo I’m still partially blacking out so I look down at my drawing and it says Misha Collins (it’s way bigger) !!!

Then, amazingly through the fog of my rapidly unwinding brain, I hear Ashley say “actually can you sign the fabric, and with a silver pen?” He had been about to sign with black ink on the metal part of her marathon medal and her sudden words stop him cold. He had gotten one line of black ink on the metal and so he looks up at her, COMPLETELY put off by her interruption, and says something like “are you kidding? I’ve already started to sign it!” Then the handler says “it’s going to come off that” and he gives her a death glare and then makes a big huff about switching pens and maybe he says something else I can’t remember because I’m a dead puddle on the floor and my ears aren’t picking everything up.

And THENNNN my AMAZING, LOVELY, NOT AT ALL BACK STABBING girl Ashley says (as he’s signing the fabric part) “she wanted me to tell you that I beat your time.” I think my mouth dropped open and I couldn’t form words because, as we’d discussed earlier, she was going to mention that she’d beat his marathon time and that he was her running inspiration, and INSTEAD decided to shove me the rest of the way under the bus by pinning it ALL on me (tbf I talked her into telling him she beat his time but STILL man, dick move!)(heheee dick move. See what I did there?)

He was INSTANTLY on the defensive! He asked her what her time was and she reiterated that she beat him and then for some god forsaken reason I decided to tell him (with some attitude) that it had been her first marathon too. He still had the medal in his hand and he asked her again “WHAT WAS YOUR TIME?!” So Ashley says, because she’s still trying to remember what the actual time was, “I beat you by four minutes” and Misha is still staring directly at her and aks again “WHAT WAS THE TIME?!” So she finally tells him and then he turns to me with death in his eyes and says “my first marathon was (insert time that was faster then Ashely’s).”

You guys! He was SO DETERMINED for us to know that his first marathon time was MUCH faster THANK YOU and that his dick is WAY BIGGER OK?!?!

Then the handler says “that was twenty years ago” and he turns that death glare on her and says “I will get you fucking fired from the job you fucking hate” and then turns back to Ashley and asks her which marathon it was so she tells him and then after a moment he asks “why would you bring that up?” And hands her the medal. I don’t remember if she responded but I’m starting to leave and so is she and he looks at her again and asks “what’s her name? Give me her name so I can put her on a list!” I actually thought at the time that he was asking for HER name but he was actually asking for mine!!! Neither of us said anything we just walked away while maintaining eye contact until we couldn’t anymore 🤣

Misha Collins is SUCH a hilarious brat during these things and I can’t believe I spurred him into a reaction during my first ever autograph! Again, I honestly wasn’t meaning to cause trouble, and he wasn’t actually upset, but I did cause it and I wouldn’t change it for the world!