#and how minthe is a real person and character!!! love that!!!

[demeterdefence]

considering your issues with lore olympus, is the lore rekindled any better? it's the same plot, no?

fantastic question, i am going to write far too much in response!

in short: yes and no! but also no. with a little yes!

for those who haven't seen, genericpuff (and their background artist banshriek) are essentially "redoing" lore olympus, although that doesn't even begin to cover the work and talent they've put into rekindled. probably the best way i could explain it is they've taken the core pieces of lore olympus and actually given them depth and structure, with a plot that just scratches my brain so good uuugh please read rekindled if you haven't already

i've said this before, but arguably my biggest grievance with myth retellings - and absolutely the case here for lore olympus - is a complete lack of care or understanding of the core myth being "retold." someone who knows the myth, knows the importance and value it held and adheres to that in a retelling, will always be ten thousand times better suited to the story than the most awarded artist out there.

i could easily overlook the degrading art and the weird plot holes if rachel had bothered to do her research and show the original myth any kind of respect; instead, she goes out of her way from page one to disrespect the culture, history, and mythology the story of persephone is taken from. rachel sees these shiny pieces, but she doesn't know how to use them with depth or purpose, so ultimately, she just dresses them up and shoves them into the page. it's a shallow and pedantic story that uses familiar names and history, but never goes anywhere with them. genuinely, you could go to the first wattpad fic of a fourteen year old on the internet for the first time and find the same plot, and i'd argue the fourteen year old would do it better because at least they're excited about it!!!

i'll try not to spoil too much, and it is ongoing, but the way rekindled has taken the original plot and made it work is incredible. persephone's hidden rage, her complex feelings towards demeter, the hierarchy of the gods - all of that is displayed with far more tact, respect, and delight. it uses the basic plot of lore olympus, and the very basic structure, but the similarities end there, because there's depth and connection that never show up in rachel's work.

lore olympus often relied on surface level conversations and plots - it struggled to create intrigue, it couldn't really do secrets or plot reveals in an organic way. concepts of sexuality, feminism, toxic relationships, abuse, power, and systemic dysfunction were broached in the comic, but ultimately handled sloppily, or discarded entirely. this is not a comic where you're going to find a lot of nuance, or you can discuss the nature of a character and acknowledge they have levels to them - what you see is what you get, and what you get ... isn't very good.

rekindled adds a lot more to the characters, giving them meat for the readers to parse through. there's a reverence for the original myth that shows, there's clear research in how the dynamics work (hera inviting persephone to her home is not just hera asking for company, and genericpuff showed their work in a follow up post which made me so! happy!!!) this is a retelling that genuinely enjoys itself, and it's a pleasure to read it, because you know the work is being done. the artwork is gorgeous, naturally, but it's the clear work and delight both genericpuff and banshriek demonstrate, and how they've carved away all the unnecessary floss from the lo version.

it also goes to show that rachel - with all the money and accolades she got from lore olympus - could never do what genericpuff and banshriek are doing for free, on their own time. and that says a lot about her talent, but even more on lore rekindled.

[pruneunfair]

Women who deserve better, both in story and writting. *Spoiler warning*

Isabella de Mare

Shes who I think of when someone asks me which character has the most wasted potential. She's a horrible human being with no other qualities but that was fine because she was set up at first as this conniving mastermind behind it all, her whole monologe about not putting all your faith in men was pretty badass and she even knew Ceasre would fall out of love with her eventually, girl just wanted that power. Unfortunately authors didn't want her to be smarter or even as smart as the FL so they dumbed her down into a spoiled green tea bitch with a low intelligence stat.

Rhyse Sinclair

Honestly she's one of the better green tea women I've seen, I like that instead of her immediately trying to mess with Edith she's trying to be her friend and actually does a good job playing the role of the sweet saint while dropping hints of her new rotten nature. I think she was originally a sweet girl who wanted the best for Edith until the Author started to influence her more and more.

Iris Van Conrad

Correct me if I get something wrong cause i just started reading this one. While Iris is annoying and just the typical punching bag designed for the FL to basically say "I'm not like other girls." I kind of pity her, she's getting humiliated every which way. In the beginning the FL pours wine on her for insulting her dress and a comment said that was classy? That's literally the opposite of how to handle a situation with class, she's not hard to dislike but not hard to like either, I want to hope she'll become a real threat but it's unlikely

Rashta Ishka

Ah, the iconic Rashta and probably one of the most famous green tea bitches. This girl was done dirty by both the story and the writting. She's the anti-sue to Naviers Mary sue. She was a slave sold by her father, was taken advantage of by one of her masters and got pregnant, her child was then taken from her by her master and he gave her a dead baby he claimed was hers and that's only a slice of what she goes through.

Nobody really likes her, she's regarded as a stupid slave who barges in on the empress, Sovieshu happily takes advantage of her to try to make Navier jealous and her only friend is manipulating her into ruin, all while any chance at her being complex is destroyed by the writers who turn her from a smart grey character/Villainess to another wicked punching bag to be used as a stepping stone for Navier and Heinrey.

Aisha

Basically Rashta but even worse. She never succeeds in any of her plans or schemes and is always one step behind the girlboss protagonist Robelia. Aisha exists to be the "other girl" fans can make fun of. The moment the protagonist shows up, the ML (who I'd beg to differ is the sole conflict and not her) ditches her to be with Robelia now that's she's "interesting" leaving Aisha to basically throw childish tantrums as she fails to be better than the FL and worse yet, the writer justifies Alexandros cheating and is viewed as misunderstood while Aisha still a pick me concubine who's only personality is trying and failing to win over Alexandros.

Minthe

The only one who's not from a manhwa. Minthe is proof to me that no one on webtoon really cares if your a mistress just as long as your the protagonist. She is one of the few character in lore olympus written with acknowledged flaws and reasons to be upset, Hades gets in an emotional affair with Persephone and apparently she's evil for not sucking it up and being reasonably upset, she's often a victim of prejudice by the other characters and is literally called "nymph trash". Even the fans would ridicule her for being upset and getting in the way of the creepy ship between Hades and Persephone to the point of bodyshaming her and being overly happy when Persephone turned her into a plant. In the end Minthe gets a half-assed arc and leaves the story forever.

Diane Poitier

One of the other well written women in historical manhwas. She's treated pretty badly by everyone including her brother and the Emperor who she tries desperately to keep by her side and she wrongfully takes it out on the protagonist Adelheid but whats different between her and other concubines in other media, Diane was there before Adelheid so it gave a reason why she was defensive (not an excuse but a reason). Seeing her break down when Adelheid actually cared about her broke my heart and really showed just how little worth outside of the Emperor she really has for herself and makes some pretty nice character development for herself and died realizing she blamed her problems on the wrong person.

[genericpuff]

Do you know "Eggnoid"? It's a rather old webtoon about a girl being put into circumstances on taking care of a robot guy who hatched from an egg (hence the title) the robot guy appears to be a grown man, but he has mental capabilities of a toddler and even acts like one. So, it's like those types of "born sexy yesterday" tropes but the gender reversed. The girl also repeatedly shown crushing over the robot guy and at some point, she called him her boyfriend despite she's supposed to be his caretaker.

I haven't read it, but I can definitely attest that there's a double standard when it comes to gender roles and age gaps / situations of grooming / etc. in literature but especially in webtoons. And by that I mean I've legit seen people hold comics like Lore Olympus accountable for their gross dynamics between a young teenage girl and the much older and richer love interest, but then turn around and say it's "couple goals" for a teenage boy to hook up with a much older woman. At the end of the day there's still a power imbalance due to the age gap and the massive differences in life experiences between the two, gender doesn't really change that.

Big ole' sip of hot tea as a take, but speaking as an AFAB, a lot of women are just as capable of grooming and taking advantage of younger men in the same way as men towards young women, it's just that on the surface people tend to get skittish about addressing that because they don't want to sound like they're going "yeah well actually women though-" and dismissing the notion of toxic masculinity. Which yes, that's a fair thing to worry about, some people do use that as a way to dismiss the arguments made regarding patterns of grooming behavior in men towards young girls (among many other problems in which men and toxic masculinity are held accountable), but like any topic of this nature, it's not always a cut and dry black and white thing. Toxic masculinity and the grooming of teenage girls by adult men is a very real problem! But just like how we can understand the nuance that being a man by default doesn't immediately make you a predator, we should be able to understand the nuance that being a woman doesn't give you a free pass to do the same things we call out men for doing without consequences. It's like the double standard in LO that it's okay for Persephone to do the same things - if not worse - than what Leuce and Minthe and Thetis do, because she's the main character and she's not some scummy "mud-sucking" lower class person, she's rich and a Queen and she's wearing a giant hat so it makes it okay /s

Unfortunately the saying of "I support women's rights and women's wrongs" is being used in a completely tone deaf "literally excusing the main character of her crimes and wrongdoings against others because she happens to be a woman" kind of way, while missing the real point of the saying - supporting women's wrongs doesn't mean you celebrate their abuse towards others, it just means women shouldn't automatically be viewed as irredeemable "crazy bitches" for making mistakes like any other human does, and like any other human, they should be given the opportunity to grow and heal and learn from their wrongs.

When it comes to Persephone specifically, it can't even be chalked up to a "one time mistake" anymore, she's literally been showing patterns of abusive behavior for years now and refusing to take accountability, and now even Rachel is meme'ing on it knowing fully well it's what people are calling Persephone out for in the critical spaces. That's not "supporting women's wrongs", that's enabling the wrongs of a person because they happen to be a woman, and that's not okay. Persephone isn't a "girl boss", she's a bully.

I think the double standard in these age gap romances also speaks to the idolization and fixation on women as being nothing more than conquests for men as well. People who romanticize age gaps between a young woman and an older man think, "Wow, that woman is so mature for her age, enough that an older richer man would choose HER to be his wife! So romantic!" when in reality those who know those dynamics are unhealthy and toxic recognize it as an older man taking advantage of a young woman who's being love-bombed into believing she's "mature for her age" so that she'll sleep with him. Meanwhile, on the other side of it, those who romanticize young men getting with older women tend to come at it from the angle of "well she's so old and washed up, no man could ever love her, her chance for love and a happily ever after is gone now! it's so wonderful of that young man to give that sad and lonely old woman love and attention!" and yet fail to see it from the same perspective of an older person manipulating a young person with zero life experience, because there's still this deeply-rooted ideology that women are "used up" by age 30 and any man who gives her attention beyond that age range is a hero. Completely neglecting the fact that relationships aren't off the table at all for older single people and they don't need to involve robbing the cradle.

I blame the lack of older couple representation in media tbh, so many mainstream romance stories are basically just this:

To pull it out of the perspective of LO and webtoons for a second (sorry, I'm going on a hell of a tangent here), remember how gross it was when it was revealed in Fifty Shades Darker that Christian had been introduced to the concept of BDSM at age 15 through one of his mom's friends (i.e. an older woman!) who Anastasia calls "Mrs. Robinson"? And they had that relationship until he was 21? And they never really did anything about that, it was pretty much just there to explain why Christian was fucked up but he still got married to Anastasia, an innocent woman who he was repeating the cycle of abuse with, and lived happily ever after anyways?

Yeah. That was pretty fucked up.

[justmenoworries]

Lore Olympus Episode 251 Spoilers

"Yet in spite of everything, [...] look at the man you've become."

You mean, a slave driver, an abusive dipshit and a horrible parent. Yeah, that's not the best argument, Persie.

I find it funny how LO often goes out of his way to have characters assure Hades that he's nothing like Kronos, but honestly? Hades is extremely similar to Kronos. Uncomfortably so.

They were both lonely and filled that void with women much younger than them, whom they were also in a position of power over, Kronos with Hera and Hades with Minthe and then Persephone.

Both like to play victim. Kronos loves to guilt-trip Hera for deceiving him and ignores that his actions would most certainly have doomed the world and Hera and the other Six Traitors had basically no choice but to fight back by any means necessary. Hades frequently whines to Persephone and others about how he feels oh-so-lonely and oh-so-isolated as King of the Underworld, ignoring that he himself is a huge reason for why other immortals percieve him as scary and unapproachable. He's constantly intimidating and bullying people with both his status and his money, see him threatening that one poor nymph with closing her business if she didn't give him private information about Persephone or him constantly antagonizing Demeter for no reason.

They're both tyrants. Kronos is self-explanatory. Hades is downright proud of exploiting the shades who come to the Underworld. He literally brags about making them perform unpaid labor. Hades also seemingly doesn't give a rat's ass about his people. He threatens both his employees and regular citizens on a daily basis. The only person in the Underworld he shows a modicum of care towards is Hecate and that's only becaus she's a long-time friend of his. And also because she actively enables all the shit named above. If you wanna cheat you could say that extends to Persephone, since she's also officially a citizen of the Underworld, but let's be real here, that's only because he's in love with her. I sincerely doubt Hades would put up an embargo and show up at a trial as the lawyer if any other citizen of the Underworld was being unfairly persecuted by Zeus.

Both Kronos and Hades are horrible parents. Kronos ate all of his sons alive but one and the only reason he didn't eat Zeus was because Rhea was wise enough to hide him away. Hades emotionally abused and neglected Thanatos for all his life, didn't show concern when Thanatos was M.I.A and when confronted by Thanatos over being a shitty father, instead of apologizing or showing anything even resembling remorse, he instead made excuses about how Thanatos wasn't throwing himself into his arms eager to be fathered after his own mother gave him up into child labor. I've said it before but I'm genuinely afraid for Dionysus, Hades isn't father material and I'm positive he'll repeat the same neglectful bullshit he pulled with Thanatos.

"There were times in the last few years of my life where I felt truly hopeless."

Sure would've been nice if we could've seen those times instead of time-skipping right over them. Persephone keeps talking about how hard the years in the Mortal Realm were, but all evidence we've had of that were her hands going green. And even that's gone now.

"But then I thought about you and [...] your capacity for love despite all the cruelty you faced."

Excuse me, what????

Name one person in this goddamn Webtoon Hades was ever genuinely loving towards that wasn't someone he once fucked or wanted to fuck.

I see the child is only referred to as 'the interloper' now. I'm guessing RS doesn't want readers to think too hard about the fact that hxp have been doing fuck-all to save an endangered child for several episodes.

And we're officially going for the "Delusional Jealous Woman" route with Leuce it seems. RS' hatred for all women that aren't her self-insert is so palpable it hurts.

"I miss Minthe."

Me too, Thetis, me too.

I'm honestly scared of where this whole Kassandra/Apollo thing is going, I don't want any more Apollo woobifying.

[yloiseconeillants]

@eorzeanflowers asked: 16 17 (For the GAP. :D (I love that this the acronym))

16. One thing one character likes about their partner(s). 17. Now one thing that the other character(s) likes about the first chara.

I had to crowdsource this answer again, so (putting it under the cut because there's some Strategically Censored Nudity in one of the screencaps lmao and also THIS IS GOING TO GET VERY LONG)-

Ariadne would say that One Thing She Likes About Kytheon is how easy he is to talk to - like he's so worldly and full of stories so you would think he wouldn't care that much about whatever petty nonsense was flitting around your head, but that's not what he's like at all? He manages to listen to people in a way that feels engaging and vital and makes her feel like less of a fool every time they have a conversation.

Kyth @mythandral: She's social and warm and has a great laugh; he likes how their modes of affection are very similar. She's his hug go-to (and god, what an honour) (TRULY)

Ari ADORES Mori and admires her so much. The first thing that comes to mind is how like, subversive Mori seems in a place like Amaurot - that she does what she wants and isn't as plagued by the pressure to conform to Amaurotine social rules as Ari feels like she has to - and that feels so freeing to be in her presence.

Timoria @lilbittymonster: Mori loves Ariadne's devotion to her projects and her fascination for flora whenever they manage to get her outside of Amaurot. Amaurot is always so obsessed with the perfect and the grandiose that it's refreshing to be around someone who finds beauty in the mundane and the rot and the little things in the soil beneath them.

She would say that Minthe always knows exactly what to do (from Ari's perspective at least) - like not just like, knowing what would get her up in the morning or how to exact righteous vengeance on Hades - she just seems so confidently Right about everything. I can easily see the two of them collaborating on Something and Ari Not knowing what is Off about it but something is wrong - and like, Minthe swiping a quick taste or look at it and knowing exactly how to fix it.

Minthe @tallbluelady: The nice thing about Ariadne is that she's real passionate about the strangest things.

Ariadne and Icarus have never done anything wrong in their entire lives and they know this and love each other.

Icarus @hermits-hovel: I imagine he grew to like her a lot during the theatre days. She was a LOT of fun to work with and probably didn’t fret about the same things that he did lmao (something that would’ve kept him grounded tbh. Which IG applies also to their mutual cope later but idk. Ari’s personality gels with his in a lot of ways and I love it.)

Ari would like, really struggle to put into words to a neutral third party something that she likes about Ras so it would probably be something like "Ras can lift me to windows I cannot reach on my own" gkslgk. But what she would WANT to say if she could form words about it is his gentleness that she witnesses in small moments - with creatures and with her (i think about his futile attempts to do Nice Things for her when he thinks she won't remember and it kills me because of course she does. Her memory is fucking excellent which is why she has to go to Mnemo to erase her memories in the first place - and that she sort of recognizes what he is attempting but knows he doesn't do this when she's sober creates a maelstrom of an overthinking loop - like does Ras only like her when she's drunk and she should never mention this to him ever since he only does it because he thinks she won't remember so she will lie about how much she can't remember from Last Night but hopefully in a way flippant enough that no one is worried that she's joking about getting black out drunk on a regular Basis) ANYWAY outside of the agonies watching him with creatures feels like a Secret and she treasures that

Erasmos @azure-dragonsinger: Ras likes that Ari cares about her weird mushrooms, that she fills silence easily and generally admires how sociable she is. (He also likes that she got him to come out of himself and included him in things but he also didnt like that so he doesn't want to encourage it XD) Also also its Ras so he'd just be like "Ari's pretty cool."

Ari would just be like "Panthea is the coolest person I have ever met in my life" and then go on to list in graphic detail all the gross stuff they've been up to. (i just want to like, point at the bit about staying within societal expectations again, because like, I do think that Ariadne really does struggle with this, especially considering that like, she's friends with people like Kyth and Mori who make it seem so easy to buck expectations [even if that's not actually the case or not] so having someone like Pan around who is like, deeply entrenched in Amaurot and its ways and bureaucracies and still manages to navigate it and find space to be true to herself is so so so inspiring)

Panthea @whatsthisascianbullshit: And as for Panthea I think it's definitely an admiration of someone who is also interested in the less idk pretty? parts of how nature and life works and forges onwards in that interest while navigating staying somewhat within Societal Expectations™️ she really loves how Ari seeks to include people and I legit think she gets little flutters every time Ari turns her smile towards her. It's warmth and inclusion and staying up late drunkenly discussing the impact venom glands would have on the decomposition process as far as fungus was concerned

BONUS: not GAP members but friends regardless:

Ari thinks Ares is a very intense person and loves that? But also their willingness to put up with her nonsense fbslgjd i don't think she expected that from Ares and is completely delighted (and will be careful to not push her Chaos Agenda too much to the point of discomfort)

Ares Nemo @abyssalmermaiden they admire how she's found what she likes (fungi and decay) and gets creative with it. And she's fun to be around and doesn't make them feel like they need to be defensive (the way many academics do)

Ari loves that Daedalus is both passionate AND good at what he does and the gremlining is SO FUN. Daedalus is fun! Even his fucking giant robot castle of Depression is fun when it isn't trying to kill her.

Daedalus @azure-dragonsinger: Daedalus has a deep and intense fondness for how much of a gremlin he and Ari could be together and that is absolutley something he really values even after they both leave the theatre.

[angelicxboi]

LO critique / rant

(I haven't read LO in a while, this is based off memory.)

One thing of many things I didn't like about LO is that the fantasy world of the gods and mortals isn't explicitly explained or understood? Why do the gods need the mortals and vice-versa. How are they gonna tease Thetis and Achilles and then not really explain how and why that came to be. Why are most of the gods one dimensional, they have multiple titles and 'purposes'. And those with epithets don't clearly abide by those epithets (See; Artemis in LO. even Persephone herself. I'd argue everyone in LO...just is similar to the greek gods in name alone.)

And on the topic of 'powers' because I'm pretty sure that's how they describe it in the comic-whats the rules here? Why do some gods 'gain' different powers or titles, why do they get epithets if they hardly interact with mortals? Are other gods giving them their titles?

I understand that LO is, supposed to be a romantic, consenting re-telling of Persephone and Hades, thus these things shouldn't be my main strife but since the author added all these weird plots and plot-lines about succession to power (Apollo becoming..king?) and constantly having scenes where the gods just sit around in legit business meetings yapping about nothing- I think it'd be nice to at least have a consistent line of rules and thoughts to go along with these plots.

Also since Hades is 'king' i feel like there should be alot more discussion about that. Not just how his realm works but like, his relationship with mortals. He's a king, but unlike Zeus he's kinda a king of dead mortals, which once again. Why aren't mortals really discussed in LO? Gods without mortals are just...guys.

But even if I poke and prod at the romance aspect, its... alot. Alot wrong. Here's how I'd re-write LO.

I wouldn't model the characters entirely off real people I know. These Greek gods have literal centuries worth of characterization I can choose from, or include all of it. Ex. Persephone herself is described as 'girl' a child, her titles include the same ones as her mother, 'fruit-grower' 'lady of the harvest' etc. but she's also known as 'mad/dread Persephone' just based on titles alone this is a good basis to further develop this character.

Make it more campy and anarchic, and play into it. Or, make it completely serious. Having one panel or one chapter discuss themes of emotional abuse and dominance only to be followed by a scene where Hades dresses Persephone up as Marylin Monroe and calls her "kitten", is like whip-lash. I'd either try to make it as Barbie 2023 as possible or just not add the comedy at all.

Characters, (especially the main ones) need to be fleshed out. I cannot tell you any redeeming qualities Hades has by himself. He is a shitty partner to Minthe and creepy towards Persephone early on. (Full-grown god thinking about Persephone, a goddess not even half his age...WHILE he is still dating Minthe.) I don't know his personality other than his trauma, and that he apparently loves Persephone but...why?

^ Going off this point. Obviously, characters need to change, having Persephone as a 'blank slate' in the beginning of the story as we follow her while she grows up and discovers her strengths and boundaries is fine. But we also need that from Hades.

Hades in LO is kinda written as a guy who doesn't want to look like he's in the wrong, but by being wishy-washy he's just a really worse guy. I'd write him completely differently.

Maybe the real villain was the patriarchy...kinda like the original Hades and Persephone myth. I would cut the nonsense and villanification of Apollo, and instead give that to Zeus if we were to demonize anyone in the story.

Demeter... I love Demeter and her and Persephone's relationship would be rewritten and reworked so much.

Expand on mortals. Mortals can be the backbone of this god society, they can be envied or treated like dirt in the eyes of the gods. but regardless they are interwoven with the gods and shouldn't only be mentioned just to mass slaughter them off.

Expand on nymphs. As is, I'm not really a fan of LO's deception of them. But, big fan of Hades (game) nymphs.

TLDR; I initially thought LO was fun because of the...different character design and the premise was funny to me, Persephone being a broke college student just like me. But...then the story went on and the plot holes became bigger and less meaningful and i remember reading a panel where Hades called Persephone 'kitten'

All this to say, LO was good if you have no previous knowledge of greek myth. It was a nice way to dip your toes into it- otherwise if you are familiar with greek myth and start reading LO expecting a cool new spin or reimagining of these figures. You will only get mad.

[winns-stuff]

LO RANT:

I’m gonna say this cause I’ve been seeing a lot of Minthe edits and finally understanding more and more of her perspective. Persephone is a homewrecker, absolute homewrecker and if this was anyone else the fans would’ve thrown a tantrum because why is it Persephone can get away with knowingly accepting affection, gifts, money, clothes, and even a phone from Hades but Minthe is shamed for also receiving things such as that.

It’s just so annoying and incredibly incompetent to me how they literally do the same things all the damn time yet everyone loves Persephone. Me personally, I hate her with all of my heart I truly believe that she’s very malicious and self serving at the end of the day. She reminds me of those villains targeting old lonely vulnerable rich men all for their money while trying to mask their behavior behind a sweet innocent character…. Oh wait. She’s literally doing just that, like always she’s doing shit like that. She literally took money out of Hades’ account for an apartment without even asking, yes you can argue that they discussed about Persephone moving out but that doesn’t just give someone the okay to take their money and run with it to buy stuff you want. She’s always being a huge extreme brat and it really makes me feel like Demeter is a victim of her damn behavior (I’ve always thought this but it just gives me more reason for it now) because how the hell are you going to get upset at your mother for coddling you when you accept and even welcome being babied by everyone around you. This whole independency thing falls through the floor when you realize that Persephone doesn’t want any independence, all she wants is to be able to get away with things she does and obviously Demeter was more strict with her (unlike Hades) so she couldn’t necessarily do anything without being watched.

I genuinely feel for Minthe, not her actions but her mental state had to be breaking apart with every single day and those two assholes just made it worse. Persephone was always aware that Minthe and Hades were together yet she still allowed herself to be seen publicly with him, she allowed him to get physical, and she didn’t mind kissing him right after they broke up. She was obviously waiting for them to break up to do more bold moves just to spite Minthe and she didn’t even care about how she would feel. I get that you’re jealous that Hades is giving his money away to someone who wasn’t you but that doesn’t mean that you could basically start seeing him and playing fucking house right in the office that she works in. That’s trifling as fuck and I’d be pissed too because not only are you embarrassing me in front of Persephone by showing her that I’m not worth any dignity or respect but you’re embarrassing me in my own workplace as well, you just know that the assistants and other staff members were spreading it around like wild fire and that had to be so stressful to deal with.

Speaking of that actually, fuck Persephone for that because she keeps whining and crying about how rumors made everyone at her college not want to speak with her yet she’s completely fine with doing things that actively ruin Minthe’s reputation and make her a spectacle for everyone to see. That’s one of the main reasons why I don’t feel any sympathy for her and I don’t see why so many people are so keen on protecting her, she’s really not shit and she’s genuinely a terrible person and we all know that if she were a real person no one would like her at all. At least Minthe had a reason for asking Hades for money, she literally only had him to rely on since he insisted on paying for everything and giving her a job, there was an obvious dependency on Hades that he started his damn self (which I have no idea why he thought trapping Minthe into this relationship she never even wanted in the first place would ensure not only a good relationship but a good marriage as well, like you made her lose her job which was the only thing keeping her from getting evicted and he knew it, his job was the only thing keeping her afloat and knowing Hades I just know he paid for the rent by himself cause that’s just how he is, he did the same with Persephone when they went shopping he insisted on buying things for her and spending money, it’s not insane to think that he did the same thing with Minthe’s apartment and her bills) what’s Persephone’s excuse of sticking around Hades and receiving money and gifts from him? She’s incredibly privileged and the heiress to a whole company if she wanted to actually be independent and get a job of her own she could’ve. She’s not like Minthe, she has lots of powerful connections whereas Minthe only had Hades, so she just enjoys being spoiled and she chooses to use only Hades’ money for the things she wants.

Last thing, but I find it incredibly telling that Hades was never truly there for Minthe emotionally. He only wanted to be there when he wanted something from her, never not once did he stand up for her or show her off half as much as he does with Persephone. He’s loud and open about his relationship with her while we barely even see praise coming from Hades and Minthe, it was almost as if he was embarrassed to be with her similar to what the comic wanted us to think with Minthe’s introduction. He listened to Hera bag on his girlfriend even before Persephone was in the picture for probably centuries and never did he ever say anything about it. He’s fucking friends with her! He’s friends and completely fine with everyone who has ever said something bad about Minthe and he doesn’t even care about all the things they said about her. And you expect me to be on their side? After everything you’ve shown us, I’m supposed to be happy that HxP are the only people getting happy endings and no one else that they screwed over to get there? Absolutely the fuck not.

That’s the end of this rant, I’m tired and incredibly irritated with the main couple they make me want to eat my own scalp. It’s so annoying how everyone lets them get away with anything yet Minthe and her fans are just evil for even having a shred of sympathy for her, like y’all stan a murderer and a slave owner. There’s no right choices.

[minthe-lover]

It really sucks that both the fandom and lore Olympus its just incapable of any form of moral completely everything is black and white. I can't fully get upset with the fandom side of that.. cause even in the most clearly morally complex works the fandom is gonna be 80% black and white ideas.

Though for lore Olympus.. is just sucks cause.. rs can write morally complex characters. Minthe is just one of the best example of a that, she isn't a good guy but is clearly sympathetic and would have made an amazing main character.

Though the real main characters are just incredibly flat, one note, and the framing within the comic is so black and white when the story itself isn't. Part of my me think it would been kinda cool if this was sort of like a BoJack horseman story. Persephone and hades being selfish cruel assholes but sympathetic in a few small ways. They end up crashing and burning while every else's improves and moves on with their lives.

Like even using that as a way to show the failure of a system that hades had set up. Though that would be less "romantic"

Though the thing that suffers the most is the characters, which are ignored labeled as bad and like treated shit not just by other characters but by the story it'self.

I can't help but see the lost potential of Demeter, especially with turning red/Encanto having come out showing how it could have been. Like imagine if the story actually tried to give Demeter any depth besides "bad" mother.

Yes putting to much academic pressured onto your child is a bad thing that can cause alot of stress, but most of the time it is not done maliciously. Like as someone who has dealt with a complicated parental relationship seeing that reflected in media is always nice.

Demeter isn't wrong for wishing the best for her daughter, does she put to much pressure on persephone.. probably... honestly the way this "pressure" is very tell not show but that's something to get into another time.. but even if Demeter is she is clearly doing it out of love and wishing for the best.

Persephone isn't a bad person for feeling pressured, but also she lies hides, fails to properly communicate with her mother and isn't exactly empathetic towards Demeter's plight and problems.

Demeter could have been a great show of how parents could mess up make mistakes and then improve themself and move on. Instead shes treated as fully bad and as an asshole even when she was younger. Cause truly how dare she not get along with hades-

[antiloreolympus]

5 Anti LO Asks

(Note: All of these asks are before episode 206 (Season 2 finale) so some may be dated.) 1. to me if the narrative was just honest hades is a shitty person then id probably love how awful he is, but no instead it's rachel insisting he's actually this perfect romantic lead and everything he does is good and just when thats not true?? like I don't think she means it to be this way, but it (hopefully accidentally) comes across as her excusing/romanticizing a predatory, abusive man who borderline gr//ms persephone into being his "perfect' bride and we're just not supposed to notice.

2. I would think, bc Persephone wanted to use the trial to distract from her crimes to instead be like "look! i'll be the white savior and free the good slaves!" I have thought Hades, in the 10+ years she'd been away would have, maybe, implemented that system? To make the place more equal and see her plan come to fruition? But I guess he would rather make the slaves work even MORE and make everyone else miserable than even do ONE decent thing for once. He's literally so awful it's insane.

3. I don’t know if I’ll be able to articulate this, but Zeus and Minthe are more “enjoyable” antagonists than Persphone and Hades as protagonist.

With Minthe and Zeus, I feel like their characters are more well rounded? Minthe hates Persephone, but stands up to Thetis when she needed to and broke it off with Thanatos when Hades agreed to be more serious committed relationship. But also her goals and motives are clear, and recognizes her flaws even if it doesn’t always push her to be better (but honestly the way hades forced her out, I too would lose my shit) Zeus is a cheating, scum bag husband, paranoid king. But he does love (most) his family, like his new relationship with Artemis I adore because of what Artemis has been through and I love how she’s not even fully comfortable with him either. Zeus isn’t even half wrong to be paranoid about Persephone, he now know he has an air plotting against him (with reason for his mother getting banished) and Zeus knew that Persephone and Apollo are somewhat associated with each other.

Zeus and Minthe have done some terrible things BUT they’ve stayed true to their character and have even had better development. And it too less time too compared to Persephone and Hades.

Persephone-I don’t know where to begin with her character. At first we believe she didn’t have real friends because all the nymphs were lowkey spies of Demeter and Artemis was her real female friend (was she being classist because she’s a goddess?) (she also seems to heavily favor Hermes) but season two she did have 2 friends that were murdered and at the end of season two these two friends didn’t have names. Nor did we learn anything about them personally other than Persephone made them (what were they like? How could we tell them apart from Persephone and each other, they’re both highlighter pink). Persephone is first semester into school and is studying biology I think. After hanging out with Hades for like 3 weeks or something she wants a law major and become a citizen of the underworld (EVEN THO SHE JUST MOVED IN WITH ARTEMIS) she has HUNDREDS OF YEARS TO LIVE JUST FINISH THE FIRST DEGREE YOUVE BEEN IN CLASS FOR 2 weeks. And then Persephone doesn’t fully realize her actions on situations even when characters point them out to her. Her class mates “are you sleeping to the top” Minthe “my ex will spoil you like he did me” Zeus “you can’t get what you want just like my brother use to do with you.” Hades literally shielded Persephone from the law for a long ass time, they shared a bed, Persephone is the first paid intern, she has new clothes, tried take out, bunch of pens, lingerie (gross coming from an old man), all thanks to Hades! And are those characters wrong? NO! Sure the context of each comment wasn’t good, but they’re not wrong.

AND THEN HADES? WHAT IS HE SUPPOSE TO BE, tragic oldest lonely sibling past, beginning of the story misunderstood/bad man/lonely, to mess, to groomer predator, to obsessive “I will burn the world down if I can’t get my barely legal wife sorry I mean gf” What I can’t get behind his character is we’re never shown him enjoying Minthe as a partner, yet he picked her, and apparently has begged her to stay, but we never see him actually enjoying her company which makes it so hard for me to take his part of the relationship seriously. I’m sorry RS if you want to sell me their relationship I gotta see them actually happy where he’s not fantasying about a pink highlighter.  And then his relationship with his family, I don’t like him as a Hera/cheater even tho Leuce is also in Greek mythology (if there was a first love route) how does he feel fine being around Zeus?How do Hera and him not look at each other in disgust and further more Persephone is Hera’s niece who is still hella young by their standards . Hades is also dick as a boss and king. He’s literally giving special treatment to the hot young (unqualified) intern. And treated his (assume older than Persephone) foster son like shit. BUT WERE SUPPOSE TO ROOT FOR THIS CHARACTER???

4. Regardless of what her intentions are (and for the life of me I don't get how Rachel thinks making Hades OWNING SLAVES is a good idea) slavery to even non-Americans is tied to the subjugation and abuse of BIPOC people, especially Africans. I'm not saying she is racist, but can you really blame anyone for thinking so when she writes and glorifies stuff like this? Donating once to a BLM charity when it was popular to do so two years ago doesn't change the fact she's doing this in 20-goddamn-22.

5. I think one of the issues with Lore Olympus is that it started (well as an original anyway) 4 years ago and like. Not much has happened at all??? Like no wonder people get tired and stop reading this comic 

[elazrielbook]

ELRIEL HADES/PERSEPHONE FORESHADOWING

i don't think sjm with follow the myth exactly, she'll switch it up like authors always do with retellings, but i'll explain the similarities first and at the end i'll tell you how i think she'll change the story!

ELAIN - PERSEPHONE

godess of spring and flowers, constantly compared to innocence and light. gets taken from her home to the night court. falls for the god of death.

AZRIEL - HADES

god of death/the underworld. azriels name literally translate to 'angel of death' and how many times is he compared to death and darkness? falls in love with persephone from afar, but demeter(rhys) tries to keep them apart.

GWYN - MINTHE

both are a red haired river nymph(naiad). minthe tries to make persephone jealous and ends up getting turned into a mint leaf. (i personally don't think itll go that way but i'll explain at the end) in the myths she dwelled in the river Cocytys, that flows into the river Acheron, the river that the archerons just happen to be named after.

GRAYSEN - ADONIS

a mortal boy that persephone fell in love with. when he had to split his time between aphrodite and persephone he chose to spent most with aphrodite. (this could represent graysen choosing the humans over elain when she turned fae).

RHYS/LUCIEN - DEMETER

demeter was persephones mother whos main role in the myth was trying to keep hades and persephone apart. like how rhys forbid elriel. demeter also forced persephone to split her time between the mortal world and the underworld (the human realm and nightcourt). and lucien currently lives in the human realm...

----

everyone and their grandma sees how elriel give the hades and persephone vibes but if you actually look into it, theres so many specific things that allude to it

the only thing im not sure about is where the whole dynaminc of lucien would fit in. but authors add new characters to retellings all the time so i suppose thats fine.

so, rhys has already played demeter and set up the whole forbidden love thing. in the myth its well known that hades kidnaps persephone to marry him, but i don't see azriel abducting elain anytime soon so dont worry about that lmao.

in mythology persephone is forced to spend spend half the year with hades and half with demeter back up in the real world. maybe this represents her being forced to spend time with lucien in the next book? and then going back and forth to the night court? either rhys or lucien could demand this of her since they would be in the role of demeter.

in the end of course hades and persephone get married, and minthe starts boasting about how shes more beautiful and how hades will choose her in the end as they are past lovers. sjm definitely wont make azriel a cheater so i wouldn't worry about the past lovers part, but gwyn seems too nice to boast like that so maybe its a misunderstanding that causes trouble. the biggest candidate for this is the necklace! some jealousy is caused but not a big fight or anything. i really dont think she'll get turned into a plant though💀elains not the type to do things out of spite so i imagine gwyn will be fine.

rhys being demeter is likely. he's kind of her guardian in a way. demeter wanted persephone to stay in the mortal world to provide the harvest for everyone even though persephone wanted to be in the underworld with hades. elain has the burden of political alliances on her shoulder because of her mate bond with lucien. this could again hint to rhys making her spend time with lucien in the human lands (mortal world)when she really wants to go back to azriel in the night court(underworld).

i think that lucien is going to have more of demeters role however. rhys loves azriel and cares for elain so he'll accept their relationship in the end, lucien however may not as hes her mate. i think its more likely to be lucien than rhys that demands that elain spends time with him in the human lands and the rest in the night court. i feel like this would lead to her hating him the way persephone hated demeter. this could end in the blood dual(that's definitely happening btw)

PSA i do not think this will be the plot of the book!! but with all the hades and persephone foreshadowing i feel like these will just be some things that happen in it. but not the actual plot, that will have more to do with elain powers and koschei etc. and even if my theory is correct and its a hades and persephone retelling, it wont follow the myth exactly, some parts will be changed and go differently!

i think the next book will be a mix of the hades and persephone myth and the tale of blodeuwedd, which i will do a post on next!

[blog-jei6x]

I want to talk about Persephone's incident with village people because it's trigger me so much and i feel myself less angry when i write about it, thank for anti-Lo tags, lol.

So Persephone showed as good kind person, but she never showed feels about this act before it was disclosed. I remember when she given coins to souls and it s all. She never thought about what she did, how terrible it was, that this people didnt deserve it etc. She hadnt remorse about it.

It could be shown without opening main intrigue of first season and would make this intrigue even more excited. Some kind of Chekhov's gun.

If her nymphs were so important for her that she became uncontrol angry why we never saw as Persephone missed or grieved about them. She almost didn't talk about them, damn they even don't have names. At least when she told about it to Hades could she gave a bit personality to them?

And this episode when they talk with Hades about it, i even started to think "oh it s fine" but no, after moment they laughed from VHS where naked Persephone dropped on Hades and dog farted.

Why this episode cant be just sad? We never seen Persephone feelings about it before, can we feel her sadness at least now? Sadness is normal feeling, beutifull in someway, which open person from diferent sides.

But in episode 152 i saw that Persephone does not feel guilty.

She just became angry because Minthe said truth, yes mb she made from her dark motives, but it still truth.

Can Persephone take responsibility for her act? Because everything what happened to her it's her fault. Btw what really happened to her? She lives in luxury with man which she likes and buying expensive clothes. I just don't see real big trouble in her life now.

So literally killing of people don't have any real bad effects for her. Emotionally: she is pretty fine, financially: everything is great too, socially: everyone still likes her, and her friends come to her, she goes shopping with Hades.

when "your lives are in tatters".

and a bit about another characters.

Hermes

How could he blame people which told about the crime when he hidden same crime for bribe from Demeter? and many fans said after it "he is so cool, perfect guy etc"

post on reddit:

Okay, great, hidden crime is good. People who told about crime should know their place.

Psyche:

she is mortal and even for her it's fine, she didn't ask: why it is normal for gods? why lives of mortals don't have matters? She asked: what is guilty of Persephone? it s rly strange for me.

I don't know what to say in conclusion. Just this story rly have strange moral, maybe even dangerous, but in LO doesnt show characters as "grey", as in GoT for examle, they are good and bad, Minthe and Apollo bad, Persephone and CO good and i dont understand why they all do something terrible, but ones are hated by audience (even should be hated, because if someone will like Apollo this person will be just destroed by LO fans) and others are 100% loved for same things.

[rottingsparrow]

Part 5!! Re-reading Lore Olympus :) Ep. 41-50

I just finished reading the new episode too so I have things to say about but that can wait for like in two weeks when I get there lmao Last part:

Ep 41

Simple dialogue is nice once and a while

I know they are supposed to be love at first sight but its so awful to see how they act even if i was crushing hard on someone if they acted like that id be weirded out

“Lets go the scenic route” nah she almost died let her breathe

“Who is that woman” shes 19 you referred to her as a kid

Ah yes the barley mother part of the storyline

It so weird to me its like rachel wanted her to be rich bc she loves painting poor people in a poor(heh) light

Why is it raining atm

Ep 42

PERSEPHONE STOP STANDING LIKE THAT

What a poor way of thinking hades yes you two shouldnt be together but your thought process is unhealthy talk to your therapist

You are so gross hades just dont look at her

Hades really says “sexualise her outfit”

I hate to be that bitch but apollo was right. Not about her needing to change but like in the presence of hades apparently anything is too hot for him

Why does his have a hair comb

“Youre a fertility goddess” ok so thats a whole thing bc later its seen as a myth within the community and everything so what

“This is out of the question” and it shouldve ended there

Ep 43

Also he has the right to turn it down lmao its his company

Hera wont think youre weak

Or maybe she will shes a lil fucked up

“Little goddess, I said no” wow what a normal and healthy power dynamic that isnt questionable at all

Rachel really went all out for unhealthy dynamics, boss and employee, king and citizen, 2000 smth y/o and a 19 y/o. Lets throw in teacher and student why not. Maybe even parent and adopted child

“Im king here” like i said, unhealthy.

“Oh shit i cant make her rich that would make no sense to her problems” dont worry, just make it to where she doesnt use her moms money

Also hades how stupid are you to not see shes hustling you i mean maybe at first but

I do like her wanting to be her own person even tho i think that gets muddled throughout the story

Why is it snowing now wtf

Also shes not gonna die from snow hades wtf

She can go outside on her own

Ep 44

What a weird thing to do introduce an intern

Like wtf let your employees go home

Minthe has a point

Its a very cute scene but then you like remember everything else and its like omg

Like him laughing and her being a lil embarrassed is so fun but tied with everything its a tad weird

Yeah you shouldnt persephone and yall should get boundaries

Persephone why didnt you tell on her genuinely

Dont be rude hades

Persephone has a point, no reason to be super mad

Oh btw heres apollo just incase you forgot he was bad. Did i mention hes bad?

Ep 45

I like this episode while hes contemplating his feelings and then he goes “her ass looks like an upside down heart” and i lose any happiness i had

Like youre 2000 control urself

And im not saying persephone isnt allowed to be sexual or sexualized but the age difference, hes her boss, and also at this point in time she doesnt like it so

Why did you bring the paper from work what

Ep 46

This is one of the prime episodes where minthe gets fleshed out but then rachel says sike later on

ALSO ITS ONLY BEEN 4 DAYS SINCE THE PARTY

Please people can have a day of relaxation where nothing happens

“Neither of us are relationship material” yall definitely let those lines blur

Shes right to be worried

Also hera is so racist to nymphs

“I know im trash already” me in like middle school

No its good to expand on her character

“Thats what everyone expects” is it? I mean how long have you been acting this way yknow

Like i want more context for that line

Idk is hades monogamous

Also zeus does cheat on his wife a lot maybe hades would

He dosent but

“I thought we were supposed to be messed up together” and i think showing a two sided toxic relationship is a great idea but rachel forgets to show hades being bad too most of the time

Also please see a therapist

Ep 47

He has a typewriter old man

“Why do i pay that hack” good point i mean you dont seem to listen to them

I dont get why he gets back with minthe like fear of being alone or what

I like the letter episode though, its nice to hear all of the feelings

Why is she on the roof lol

Ep 48

I love the furies(?)

Hes supposed to be so spooky in this episode hes so lame

Like i agree with them hes a dork

Wow everyone either likes or despises hades/persephone they are such characters

Has anyone heard of a neutral opinion

Minus his employees i guess

Ope he has glasses

Ep 49

I love the random characters getting names its so silly yet fun to me

Hecate please unpop ur collar

Good talk hecate

Does he not care thats the king

In the “salutations” panel hecate loses all meat and becomes very long

Also if these are laws why does no one follow them

Or wait is weekly nark an olympus based newspaper

I always thought he asked “which eye did you take the picture with” but he doesnt so ig im thinking of something else

Also what the fuck just ban him or smth

Ep 50

Yeah artemis maybe it would be easier too if you paid better attention

Shut. the fuck up apollo

Also how is artemis getting taken advantage of here

Love hermes

Hc him as a gay man personally

“There are rules” that literally are never listened too

Also artemis sucks at listening wtf

Like wanting to talk and getting onto someone are two different things

Also like once again, artemis feels likes choosing to be unaware yknow

[cosmok13]

So, once again I asked a question for GenericPuff (Creator of Lore Rekindled which I highly recommend you check out), regarding something that always bugged me about Hades in LO. I know there are plenty of posts out there showing how much of a POS Hades is in Lore Olympus, but something I never see anyone really discuss is his power over women. Not just with Minthe and Persephone, but all the other examples I mentioned along with the images GP provided. Now, granted, I think for so long the fans tend to ignore these red flags because of their rose-colored glasses towards Hades due to him being the main male lead and love interest. But I find it very disturbing that for someone who is supposed to be an ideal man to treat Persephone like a queen, he doesn't have the best track record with women. And while more people are seeing the messed-up flaws of Hades, I rarely see anyone bring up his history with other women because… that is the biggest red flag of Hades in my opinion.

It's even worse when you think about the fact that Rachel Smyth tried to write Hades to be the best male love interest, but when you compare him to other gods in LO like Zeus and Apollo… he’s no better and abuses his status and power just as much. It’s so weird that the author ignores at best, or downplays at worse, this clear trait that Hades has, which has never been addressed nor does he do anything to try and fix it. Now, to be fair… I can accept when characters have shitty personalities and are as bad as BoJack Horseman. However, I can only tolerate them if they follow two rules.

1. The media that shitty character is in needs to remind the audience, that all their actions that result in hurting others is not okay, and that character does get consequences for their actions.

Or 2. The shitty character can realize their mistakes, take accountability and strive to be a better person.

An example for number 1 is BoJack Horseman. Yeah, he does have a terrible upbringing, and it’s clear he has made many mistakes he regrets. But he continues to make those mistakes to boost his own ego, yet the show always reminds us that what he is doing is not okay, and he deserves to be called out for his predatory behavior.

A fictional character I can see fitting for example 2 would be Rigby from Regular Show. In the first season, Rigby isn’t the best character, he’s lazy, annoying, and can be not a great friend to Mordecai (Though to be fair, Mordecai isn’t that great of friend to Rigby either.) But as the seasons grow, so does Rigby. He becomes more devoted to his work, wants to finish high school after dropping out, gets a stable girlfriend that has great chemistry together, and is even willing to be there for Mordecai more often. He started off as a terrible character, but he managed to have a redemption to improve himself.

But that’s the problem I have with LO Hades… he is never called out for his actions by the other characters or the narrative, nor does he better his flaws. And anyone that does call him out, the author (and the fans) will demonize them, despite them stating real facts. And Hades didn’t learn from any of his relationships, because everything he is doing to Persephone… he’s already done with Minthe! And again, I find it so disturbing that the author wants to make Hades seem like this ideal partner for Persephone, despite his track record of women (in relationships or not), are not actually desirable and downright abusive.

Honestly, with the way Hades has gotten off with this behavior, what’s really stopping him from cheating on Persephone or wanting to de-throne her later down the line? Hades was only attractive to her because of her body and nativity, not her real personality, and of course now that she gave him actual children which he wanted, she has pretty much served her purpose. The reality is cheaters and abusers don’t change. And I wouldn’t be surprised if Hades pulled a Zeus and cheated on Persephone with someone younger and more naïve than her. Probably only then will Persephone really understand that she made a grave mistake in being with Hades and that her mother was right.

(Hello, I posted a comment about this topic in your ask box a while ago, but I don’t know if it went through or is just in ask box limbo. So, if this comment sounds familiar, it’s because I might have already asked this, I just wanted to make sure that it went through this time.)

So, in one of your posts, I noticed that you compared Hades from LO to Bojack Horseman from the Netflix show with the same name. And it made me think back on a video by Dazzling Kate that I ended up commenting on, regarding Hades’s past relationships with Minthe and Leuce. Something that I think the fans (And even Rachel) tend to overlook with Hades is his sexual history with women and the power he has over them. Much like Bojack, Hades from LO has been in many relationships with women where he had significant power over them. He then either used those women for sexual pleasure, or to get some kind of favor from them to better himself. There are plenty of examples of this! Example 1: Minthe – He initially engaged with Minthe when she was flat broke and struggling to make ends meet. He ended up giving her a job at his company where he was the boss, allowed her to live in an apartment complex which he owned and was paying rent for, and even set up a bank account for her at a bank he controlled (Which he did the same to Persephone). He then later develops a sexual relationship with her and bribed her with expensive gifts to keep her in the relationship, but doesn’t fully commit to making her happy by standing up to his family when they trash-talk her nor does he consider her feelings.

Example 2: Bank and pawnshop – He threatened the owner of the pawnshop where Persephone had to give up the comb Hades gave to her so she could make money. Sure, you could argue he was hurt she had to sell a gift he gave her just for the money, but you can’t deny that puts him in a position where he abused his power over a woman and did not talk to Persephone about selling the comb first before threatening to get it back. He also threatened a worker at the bank when he was setting up Persephone’s account (said worker was a woman as well), and even though she was doing her job, she was forced to bend the rules because Hades was threatening her with his eyes.

Example 3: Hecate – Hades learns about the tabloid photo because of Hecate and learns that Hecate is an aunt to Persephone. And while it seems she is on the same level as the King, Hades ends up using Hecate to track down Alex, kidnap the photographer and torture him with Hades. This event is made to make Hades seem like a hero for Persephone by taking out someone who hurt her image but this only isolated Persephone at her college more and just confirmed what everyone was thinking. On top of that, Hades is excused for his behavior and not even Persephone sees how disturbing that is. (Now that I think about it, I wonder if this incident could be considered an act of wrath considering harm was caused to a person by a god who did not have a permit to commit said act. And I also wonder that if this got back to Hades, would he throw Hecate under the bus by claiming that she was the one who brought up the idea and did most of the dirty work? I wouldn’t be surprised if he did put the blame on Hecate, which just further proves his power over women by forcing her to take the fall to get out Scott free.)

Example 4: Hera – He consulted Hera during her breakdown when she discovered an affair Zeus was having, which ended up resulting in Hades having an emotional and physical affair with Hera for at least a century. He basically used her insecurities to have her go against her title as “goddess of marriage and faithfulness”, using her doubts about her relationship with Zeus to gain some intimacy. This also ended up snowballing into Hera beginning to feel more guilty about Hades’s status about wanting someone by his side as his queen. It’s probably why she decided to play matchmaker with Persephone to be with Hades, so he could have the kind of woman he wanted. Hera put her own niece with her brother-in-law, who was much older and unstable, just so she could move on from her feelings and be rid of the guilt of the affair.

Example 5: Demeter – Hades had a pretty good relationship with Demeter, but ended up betraying her so she wouldn’t become queen of the Earth, all because he allowed his brother to manipulate him. While Zeus is to blame, Hades fell for it and let Demeter be thrown under the bus just because he wanted to keep the volcanos, even though he could have just talked with Demeter over it. He also calls out Demeter with derogatory names and claims that she is isolating Persephone and abusing her by asserting her authority over her daughter. However, Hades is just as guilty of doing the exact same thing to Persephone: Belittling her with titles such as ‘little goddess’, ruined her reputation at school, controlling her finances, and even manipulated her into things she didn’t want to do by taking advantage of the situation. (Like how Persephone wanted to take their dating slow, but she agrees to get married only after the fallout with her mother.)

Example 6: Leuce - ….Okay, Hades didn’t technically do anything wrong here, other than not confront Leuce right away about this arranged marriage. Zeus was the one who wanted her to marry Hades, and Persephone was the one to really have her moments with. Seriously, fuck Zeus and Persephone for this.

Example 7: Persephone – I kind of already said my point in Example 5 (Belittling her with titles such as ‘little goddess’, ruined her reputation at school, controlling her finances, and even manipulated her into things she didn’t want to do by taking advantage of the situation.) Basically, everything that Hades did to Minthe, he’s pretty much doing the same thing to Persephone. He doesn’t see Persephone as an actual partner to be his equal, he sees her as a sex icon that he can control and he takes advantage of her (maybe not sexually, but in other means). And all the things Demeter did to her daughter, Hades is doing the exact same thing, but again he wants to get a sexual relationship out of Persephone for it!

My point is that throughout LO, Hades clearly displays how toxic, power-hungry and predatory he truly is. It’s ironic that Rachel wanted to make Hades seem like the best of the three brothers, but his personality is no different than Zeus or even Apollo for that matter. Rachel only made Hades worse in LO than in the original hymn and Greek Mythology. I don’t mind these tendencies of Hades or any characters that have such traits, but they should be called out on it! At least BoJack was exposed for his toxicity and power over women, which the show clearly tells us is not a good thing that he or anyone else should be proud of! BoJack also suffered the consequences of those actions and tried to get better. But here, LO makes it seem like this is normal behavior for Hades and that he’s a desirable bachelor who just needs to find the right woman to work through his issues. Even though Hades’ track record with women is a massive red flag.

And the depressing thing that we have to ask is… if Hades acts this way with every woman in his life, then what’s stopping him from pulling the same crap on Persephone? He may “love” her now, but who’s to say he won’t pull a Zeus and get a concubine later down the road or have multiple affairs? After all, he didn’t fall for Persephone because of her personality, he fell for her because of her body and what she can give him and the control he has over her.

(Sorry for the long post, but I was just curious to hear your thoughts on this topic because I don't think too many people in the LO community really pay attention to this detail about Hades)

i swear i thought i had responded to this ask the first time you made it so that's my bad ahahfhdasklsaj but i probably assumed that because yes, we've talked about the similarities between Bojack and Hades before, and they really are fucked the more you think about them ＼(º □ º l|l)/ to the point that you could deadass replace Bojack with Hades in that "second interview" scene where the interviewer asks Bojack about the power he has over women and he denies it as if he hasn't constantly abused women and girls who trusted in him on the basis of being a well-known celebrity.

There's a lot of delusion and lack of accountability there on Bojack's part, especially because it's following the first interview where he admits to the flaws that he finds easy to swallow and twist into his own "I'm the victim" type story, but then cowers away from the stuff he DOESN'T want to admit because he still doesn't think he did anything wrong and was trying to use the "woe is me I'm a sad struggling celebrity :(((" angle from the first interview to get himself off the hook.

So of course as soon as he's asked some actual hardball questions and realizes he's up shit creek for being directly responsible for Sara Lin's death as well as other incidents involving women he took advantage of / directly harmed, he pulls the "I'm an addict" card, which is yeah, sure, a reason for a lot of his past transgressions, but it's not getting into his real issues that are feeding into his addictions and it's still being used more as an excuse to try and get himself off the hook on the virtue of "well yeah I'm a bad guy but we already talked about that didn't we??? can't you see how regretful I am ??? let's just move on already!" rather than actually taking accountability.

And who does that sound like? Oh right, the "misunderstood" King of the Underworld, Hades, who has done nothing to actually prove wrong all the claims and statements made about him. Like, we're supposed to believe - according to the narrative - that Hades is misunderstood and that people only assume the worst of him due to his association with the Underworld...

... but then he goes and pulls shit like this and it's like "Wait, maybe his reputation precedes him" LMAOOO

Now it could be a "which came first, the stigma or the reputation" type thing, where Hades started off with good intentions and then slowly morphed into a tyrannical piece of shit because most people already assumed he was gonna be like that anyways just for being the King of the Underworld, but the comic never really explores that or makes that clear. It's just constantly at odds between Hades being "poor misunderstood rich guy :(((" and "powerful king who will destroy anyone who tries to touch his cinnamon roll qween >:3" and yeah it makes for really shitty characterization, especially when reading in hindsight and realizing, "Wait, maybe Minthe was right to be upset about what Hades was doing and Hades was in the wrong".

Shit, this is a bit off topic, but you wouldn't believe the amount of people who don't realize that this scene-

-is literally a bribe.

Now, most people assume it isn't because it's not taking the form of the usual "I'll pay you whatever sum of money to make sure this all goes away" but... it's still a bribe, the exact kind of bribe that permeates larger industries where women are often forced into silence at the hands of a rich powerful man who has all the power (cough people like Bojack Horseman cough). It's a lot quieter and designed to make the woman look "ungrateful" if she doesn't take a deal that really only benefits the perpetrator (in this case, Hades). In this situation, Hades has all the power - he's her employer, the guy who pays for her apartment and other bills, and as much as he can claim he put "the two of them" in the position of financial co-dependency, it was really only her. He's the one who owns banks, after all - she's the only one who stands to lose everything and clearly all he's losing is a woman who he's not even interested in anymore in lieu of the new 19-year-old intern who he's more attracted to now.

So he tries to make it sound like all of it is for her benefit. She could go back to school. Take a management position with better pay. All of these offers, while on the surface seem like a "good faith" apology to "make up" for the loss of the relationship, are really just their own form of bribe to get Minthe out of the picture, under the guise of being for her own "benefit".

Now don't get me wrong, Minthe absolutely 100% deserves to get the fuck away from Hades, but it bugs the shit out of me that the narrative never focuses on Hades' own role in this relationship and how he's contributed to its issues. And not only that, but he's continued this cycle through Persephone, who was also vulnerable in many of her own ways, from her age, to her lack of life experience, to her lack of finances (aside from her inheritance of the Barley Mother fortune which she clearly doesn't have access to throughout S1), to what she's going through as an SA victim. Sure, the narrative props them up as a perfect couple, but Persephone is still just another naive girl who was lovebombed by an older and richer man and slowly turned into an accessory of his own design, covered in all the trappings of wealth and continuing the cycle of abusing the lower class (which we see her doing constantly throughout S3).

And if all that isn't proof enough that Hades is an exploitative piece of shit who takes advantage of women, look no further than the pilot episodes:

And yeah. Minthe was absolutely right that Hades has all the power and privilege of being able to come across as the responsible one when she's the one who stands to lose so much more.

[bamboo-muse]

Really curious to see how Lore Olympus progresses with Persephone and Hades aware of their feelings for one another.

A lot of people are familiar with the puppy love phase of a relationship or budding relationship.

A budding relationship is always so exciting and full of possibilities you really get caught up in your feelings and the feelings you have for the other person that you might even end up talking to them into the wee hours of the morning as we've already seen our beautiful marshmallows do.

As we know too what Perse and Hades have isn't entirely a relationship yet, it has some barriers it needs to get by.

To me this is where this gets interesting:

Demeter, the biggy

Artemis, Athena, Hestia -ie TGOEM

Apollo, and the ThaTheMin Crew

And maybe the one barrier we keep forgetting because we all know how attention of a crush can feel so blindingly amazing:

Hades' trauma post-Minthe.

Notice how in his letter to Persephone he mentions how he loves how she makes him feel and not specifically how his love FOR her makes him feel

Or how the admission of feelings on his part is that he wants her and not that he loves her or wants to protect her. You could argue wanting someone is the same as loving them, but it is painfully made obvious by Hades not remembering/ knowing Persephone's birthday he doesn't know her well enough or has even been around her long enough to get a real feel for her character and to have something to love about her.

He's infatuated with the idea of her and she's a curiosity to him that he's addicted to wanting to unravel. All Hades has known is an angry lover in Minthe that I fear he's not impervious to putting Persephone on a pedestal that risks invalidating her ability to get upset and lash out.

This is in no way an attack on the characters, I wholeheartedly love them and the continually unfolding tale and just maybe this iteration of them is going to be love at first sight, only time tell. Rachel has done a fabulous job of reeling in her fanbase/readers and I myself am drunk on the gushy cuteness of these dorks that it reminds me of the early stages of my relationship with the love of my life that perhaps, just like me Persephone is blind to the difference between love and lust and just maybe Hades is blind of it himself as well.

Here's to a happy hiatus.

[alatismeni-theitsa]

anti LO anon opinions:

1) I pointed out the same opinion about thanatos on why he should care and a fan responded that he shouldnt have a say on hades and persephones relationship because he was making out with minthe while they were still dating...

2) I’m just so annoyed LO Persephone’s visual maturity is all in terms of hades. It’s via how he wants her to dress, how he wants her to act, via what he wants her to enjoy and do. He’s never once gone out of his comfort zone for her or branched out to see what she wants and enjoys or even really ask, meanwhile she does everything he wants at the drop of a hat. It leaves a bad taste in my mouth. This isn’t a couple of balance and compromise, its not even one of real respect, it’s just the woman making herself whatever she wants her future husband to be while he does nothing but throw money at her as “affection”. It’s essentially her having to do whatever Demeter wants, which was framed as bad, but this time it’s whatever Hades wants, so now it’s good? She still isn’t really given the choice, now is she?

3) i really have to question why LO keeps framing "dark" persephone as the queen and wife of hades because that side is framed as basically a different character who has popped out before and very purposely has said it doesnt like hades and sees him as weak and not worth their time. it also has it that persephone doesnt like or even control this side of her so its like??? is the endgame the real persephone being trapped inside herself by this evil persona and hades is married to someone who doesnt love him/outright hates him? this wouldnt be an issue if they just let Persephone be a complex character who had light and darkness in her instead of insisting at every turn she stay a “precious cinnamon roll” at all times that you need to create an out there alt-personality to explain everything away 🤔

4) LO has the regressive idea that women are all innocent victims unless stated otherwise (such as having a sex life outside Hades (Minthe, Aphrodite) or not falling at his feet (Hestia, Demeter)). The thing is, women, no matter how "precious" they are, are capable of being bad people. It'd make sense Persephone the "dread queen" would actually be cruel and not nice and even the scarier of the two of them, but the comic wont commit to it, so everyone else has to be wrong instead

5) I would be more willing to hate LO Thanatos if it weren’t for the fact Persephone is a mega rich heiress who has everyone coming to her defense for merely existing including his mega rich CEO boss meanwhile the comic seems to imply Nyx (and by extension her family like Thanatos) lost their status and power once the Big Three like Hades came to power, reducing them to subordinates and powerless to his wants and desires. It’d like an Amazon warehouse worker calling out how unfair their working conditions are only to be told “yeah well Bezos got divorced last year and he’s really sad about it, feel bad for him instead and forget your problems.”    Why should I feel bad for a bunch of rich jerks who won’t face an real consequences and demean the ones who can’t stand up to them?

6) Regarding the recent LO chapter with Thanatos and Daphne talking about Persephone and Hades's relationship. I can kinda understand from both the perspectives: 1) Thanatos is a long-term employee for Hades so he has a better viewpoint of seeing the special treatment between Hades and Persephone up close. His feelings are partially influenced by his negative peers (Thetis and Minthe) who outright dislikes Persephone. But in his perspective: He is a longtime employee at a company who worked their way to a high position, and then one day your employer starts to hire someone younger and gives said younger colleague special treatment and attention (along with a big paycheck that most interns shouldn't be paid for). Part of the reason can also be that the said younger colleague is both their family background (being the child of one of the Six Traitors) and being very youthful and attractive2) Daphne only sees the relationship from an outsiders perspective and is partially defensive for her longtime friend. She is aware of Hades and Persephone's unusual relationship but also means well at knowing not to pry into others personal lives. 

7) I think that in lo to protect "our precious cinammon roll" Daphne could said that maybe that is Hades fault not hers bc he give her special treatment and his bad boss. This would at least show that there is unfairness at his job, that he is rightfuly angry just maybe at wrong person. It would be at least better than "dont care about this lol"

8) Persephone in lo only work 1 actual day of work. Her first day is only a tour, on her second day she work, on third day she isnt working bc she learn how to use computer and now she sometimes try to do something with work while flirting with hades, so maybe she worked 1,5 day of work in total. It isnt surprise thst she didnt work a lot since its been 13 days in comic

[koreecob]

I’m gonna say it because someone has too and I feel like some people are too afraid to have this conversation

Apollo in Lore Olympus is a good antagonist. No he’s not a good person and I do not condone his actions at all, but he plays his role as the antagonist very well. He makes us angry and frustrated, as he’s supposed to do. We’re not supposed to like him, that’s the whole point, but you can appreciate the fact that he is written so well that we are able to have these strong reactions when even seeing him in a panel. Rachel just does a lovely job at conveying the antagonists in the story and the roles they are meant to play.

 Hell, if Minthe wasn’t in the story and that whole arc where Hades realizes what he truly wants from a romantic relationship, I don’t think I would’ve realized how toxic my relationship was and how much I could relate to Hades.  Even if we don’t like them, they serve a good purpose in this story but also represent real people that we may encounter in real life in a very real manner. She doesn’t sugar coat it and make Minthe suddenly good after her breakup or has Apollo realize hes done something wrong after being being confronted by Persephone. Some people like them may end up seeing the error of their ways sooner than others, but the truth is that it just isn’t always like that (That and we need our antagonists in the story for the story to continue)

Also, you can absolutely appreciate a characters design without liking them. I think all the characters in Lore Olympus are designed really well (Damn you Rachel for making everyone hot) but that doesn’t mean that I love every single one of them. 

And to anyone who hasn’t realized, Apollo in Lore Olympus is not a reflection of the deity who people worship. So please do not attack them??? And to anyone who wants to bring up Daphne or other stories to disprove this, ALL GREEK GODS, FOR THE MOST PART, DID SOMETHING THAT WE WOULDN’T AGREE WITH MORALLY. And like don’t get me wrong, I love the modern adaptation you can find in Lore Olympus and I love the way the characters are written, but I also love Greek mythology and have a lot of respect to those who still worship these gods so you need to remember that because the last thing they want is to get attacked by a fandom that can’t see that there is a clear distinction between the gods they worship and the characters in the Webtoon.