#and her dlc lore????

[miquella-everywhere]

No actually the thing that perturbs me the most thanks to this absolute nonsense retcon is that you have the whole dominating color scheme of Gold and Scarlet within elden ring so when you get to the whole dynamic between Miquella and Trina you pause to think, "why purple? where the heck did the purple come from?" but then you think even harder and remember Melina and the whole sealed away purple eyeball thing going on with her and then you remember that the Gloam-Eyed Queen existed and how data-mining the dlc reveals that she was supposed to be there but ultimately wasnt for frankly stupid reasons and then you remember the story trailer of marika stealing from a pregnant woman's corpse and how the Gate of Divinity had that Gold and Purple backdrop going on but instead the writers were lame and now even Melinas own greatest mysteries were never answered and wow this retconned lore sucks absolute ass

anyway gloam-eyed queen is marikas sister and melinas mother truther forever 🤟

[drenched-in-sunlight]

i love the DLC man

[monochrome-genesis]

‘Golden One, who earned your wrath?’

[goldensunset]

penny is like. she’s british. she has toothpaste hair. she got suspended for forming a gang. she has intense rave music for her battle theme. she just has a bunch of eeveelutions for her actual team. she wants a fursuit. she likes anime. she pretends not to be scared of horror movies but is. her uncle tried to end the world but she only talks about how annoying her loving dad is. she enjoys doing silly little dances. she’s a hacker. she embezzled funds from the government and got rewarded for it by getting to work for them. she only eats junk food and instant ramen and stuff. she tells you your mom is attractive

[gojuo]

"i assure you players, it is vitally necessary to the plot that miquella is an eternally underage femboy caught in an incestuous love triangle with two of his older brothers that he is secretly planning to merge into a flesh golem he will marry"

[asklesbianonceler]

Metyr, The Gloam-Eyed Queen, and The Nox

Lore, item, and speculation analysis. Looking at coincidences and theories a bit closer below the cut.

This is a little more disjointed than my last analysis.

@dykeishheart Replied to your post: I would be curious to know if you think anything in particular about the finger ruins of Rhia and Dheo being shaped just like the godslayer incantation insignia. I haven't seen any people mention it before but I was almost wondering if it's a false thread, like maybe it isn't meant to look like that intentionally bc nothing in Ymir/Metyr quest uses or mentions black flame or the gloam-eyed queen. Unless we interpret Metyr's pink gazing eye as 'gloam' (twilight)

I got this reply and said "yeah, I'll finally get into this!" So thank you!!

I've mentioned vaguely having thoughts on The GEQ/Metyr connections as well as Metyr's connection to the Nox but never got into any of it concretely. I know this specific reply isn't saying Metyr and the GEQ are connected beyond this but I've seen it A LOT and I've wanted to talk about it so it's a good excuse!

You can scroll down to my "Actual Interpretation" header if you want to skip over other's theories and a brief GEQ summary

I want to start by giving an overview on the points I've seen floating around that bring up visual similarities between Metyr and the GEQ so we have a basis for this.

The pattern on Metyr's face, the fingerprint, is similar to both the shape of the godslayer incantations as well as, as user dykeishheart pointed out, the above ground finger ruins

Metyr's tail fingers are in a twist, similar to the helix on the godslayer greatsword.

The godslayer greatsword has a swirling, fingerprint-like pattern on the beginning of the blade before it breaks into a twist

The dominula cape has similar patterns to the incantation as well as the finger sorcery symbols

Jolan and Anna's armor of night, has another similar fingerprint/godslayer-like symbol on the front

My hesitancy with addressing this in detail is that I don't want people to think I'm telling them they're wrong or coming off as argumentative. This is simply my take on the theory. But we're no strangers to characters being associated with the GEQ

So without further adieu, with the points I'll be contesting laid out, here are my thoughts on why Metyr is not connected to the GEQ.

GEQ basics:

We know the GEQ had her own two fingers, was an Empyrean, and was a direct timeline competition to Marika. It seems that, to the Greater Will, they were both potential candidates vying for Elden Lord, each trying to unite the lands between, and possibly the land of shadow, to the GWs plan. It is unclear if at this time the fingers were already unsound and giving baseless messages. I personally do not believe so as these were likely the first sets of two fingers to be bestowed upon Empyreans and still in their early history. It would also make sense that the GW would want false or unfit gods killed off before it's new plan is enacted.

The GEQ controlled destined death, a key aspect of the Elden Ring and one that would be incredibly dangerous for Marika who sought godhood. Thus she and Malekith went to war against her and her Godskins

She raised her godksin from birth, turning the dead flesh of unnamed, and unimportant gods into her children- via the godskin swaddling cloth, also directly connecting her to motherhood.

The meaning of Gloam is roughly synonymous with evening, dusk, twilight, and crepuscule, a time of day characterized by sunset- a blueish to orange/sometimes purple sky. We could also interpret this as "coming to an end" the setting of the sun, the absence of light, or gold. (making her a direct foil to Marika)

Her and her apostles are associated with Black, obsidian, and a deep purple gemstone

My first question about this theory is, what is the theory specifically? That Metyr IS the GEQ or that the GEQ was a follower/champion of Metyr/sanctioned by Metyr?

ON TO

MY ACTUAL INTERPRETATIONS:

My initial thought on the godslayer seal/symbol was always that of inverted fire. A fire devoid of warmth or life, the opposite of those wielded by others in Elden Ring. This is still my interpretation. The Stone set in the middle of the seal, to me, also do not seem intentional enough for me to connect it to Metyr. Had it been anything but black I would be more inclined to give this more weight. Metyr's eye is red/orangeish, bearing an odd crossed separation down its iris. I believe there are too many similar swirling, round patterns in other incantations for this to seem concretely intentional. The Frenzy Flame, Dragon communion, and others all have a swirling in the center. The other thing setting this symbol apart from a fingerprint is the symbols between each ring.

As far as the finger ruins shape, to me they almost feel like sites of large meteor crashes, further suggested by the falling star beast. And Metyr herself is a falling star. Their shape to me feels like a trail of something hitting the ground and settling. I believe it says the lampreys aren't from the land of shadow as well but I could be wrong. They feel very alien and touched by outer presence. I think their fingerprint line shape also feels like the ripples of something crashing there.

Metyr is also a shockingly developed god in comparison to the Elden Beast, so much so that I cannot see her being or sanctioning The GEQ. As I got into in my Ymir Analysis post, Metyr is given strong characterization and emotion. She is loyal and subservient to the GW to the end. Even when she is abandoned she remains true to the purpose it gave her, grieving her corrupt children, waiting, alone, and growing resentful- but only to the point of physical violence via her thrashing and wielding of her head as a weapon. Her built up anger, as her remembrance weapon states, manifests in crushing blows of her head as a weapon. Her utmost rage is literally her beating her head against the ground in frustration, to the detriment of those around her and likely herself. She is described as a kowtower to the GW and seemingly deals with far too much of her own grief, self doubt, and obligation to come up with her own agenda or enact another agenda herself/take any matters into her own hands to the extent of the GEQ. We have also seen the result of her direct connection with others via Ymir and seeing as this is the first/only time we see finger sorcery learned from her it's unlikely anyone else ever made contact to this extent. Her connection to the GEQ is that she birthed the fingers that told the GEQ what to do.

Perhaps, as many others, the GEQ was enamored by the teachings of her two fingers and took inspiration from its form. This wouldn't be uncommon. We see fingerprints in Frenzy flame items, Nox items, and the fingerprint shield- which is an item I would like to get into a lot more in a moment. But to connect her that closely to Metyr feels incredibly out of character for Metyr. Metyr is also largely connected to int builds and sorcery. Never Faith. Even the High Priest Hat boosts both Int and Arcane, not touching upon Faith. I also believe the lack of godskins in the land of shadow is incredibly telling. If the GEQ had connections to Metyr there would surely be something mentioning her blackflame or godskins in the DLC

Both are also associated with motherhood, but to the point that i think it's the opposite of something that connects them narratively. The GEQ has such a specific and unique way of creating her children/warriors, far too different from Metyr's

As far as the connection to her tail fingers goes, there are also countless other connections to helixes being associated with the divine, a main one being the hornsent. Her sword also doesn't have the classic spinal look down the center of the blade that both the Sacred relic sword and fingerslayer blade do.

In terms of connecting dominula to the godskin, that is entirely possible, but this just comes back to my feelings on the godslayer symbol. Connecting anything at all to the finger sorcery symbol would be baseless. This design takes far too much inspiration from the Carian and Raya Lucarian sigils to not be something Ymir created for his own sorceries, thus unique to the land of shadow and his studying of Metyr.

Metyr also seems far too connected to the stars for me to associate her with someone who's name means dusk- a time of day characterized by sunlight still being in the sky albeit fading. You really can't see stars during this time and certainly not enough for them to seem bright. She is far more associated with pure night than evening. Great segway.

The Nox and the Fingerprints and a Slayed God

Like I wanted GEQ lore in the dlc. I wanted to know more about her. But I truly think she's dead :(

I think sometimes we're just looking for GEQs so much that maybe we're overlooking some smaller revelations from the Metyr quest.

Specifically in regards to the Nox's reason for banishment and the fingerslayer blade.

Jolan and Anna are nox swordhands of Night. Their armor describes the swordhands as being born deep underground and their armor bears the fingerprint marking- actually described as a fingerprint in the description this time. But they don't wear this armor because they are in Metyr/Ymir's service. They arrived at the land of shadow wearing this armor that is designed to keep them in the dark and there were more than just two of them. We find the armor on a corpse in a body bag in bonny gaol, next to multiple other bodybags. But we can say for sure there were at least three swordhands here. And they must have had a purpose here for them to be the only Nox in the lands of shadow.

And this got me thinking. What other items specifically reference fingerprints and at first it just seems like frenzy items which seemed like a dead end. But there's one specific item that although related to frenzy, references a time before that- The fingerprint stone shield which is "part of the tomb of an ancient god---- the very seeds from which frenzy first started" So similar to Godwyn's death, a death created an unforeseen consequence, but who was this god? Who killed him? Well, aside from the GEQ, there is one other group of people known for knowing how to kill gods. The Nox. And they had a reason to do so. The Fingerslayer blade is born of a corpse and bears a similar helix and spinal design to the sacred relic sword, implying it is from the body of a god. The sword of a vassal/god that is capable of killing another. Perhaps this was the god the Nox killed in order to create the blade. Perhaps they did not kill this god themselves and merely robbed it's grave and defiled the body by rending the fingerslayer blade from it. The recurring fingerprint motif on the armor of the swordhands and on the tomb is an interesting connection. Regardless, the Nox did not want to be governed by the GW's influence, instead they followed the stars. They were the original GW haters and they wanted to kill one of its vassals and harm the GW. Which vassal did they intend to kill? Ranni uses it on her two fingers but perhaps it was made for Metyr, the source of the GW's messages that they hated so much. They were never able to use it. It's creation led them to be banished and stripped of the stars at the hands of the GW. Swordstress armor states, " Now they live under a false night sky, in eternal anticipation of their liege. Of the coming age of the stars. And their lord of night"

This would make sense as to why the swordhands are in the land of shadow. They were looking for Metyr. And it would also give us some food for thought on Jolan and Anna, Anna perhaps being the one who still believed in their original purpose and Jolan, having disagreed with her. Jolan instead believing she has found what the Nox were awaiting, the return of their stars and their lord of night. Her infatuation with stars, saying Ymir is her shining star, and doing as he asks without question, knowing he sees fate in the stars, heavily implies this is what she believes. Perhaps she too seeks redemption for what she's done as a swordhands, her weak heart leading her to forsake her original goal and seeking her fate in Ymir's stars.

Time to yap, because I understand I'm probably wrong about the ancient god connection bit:

Yapping: This ancient god to Nox connection is just theorizing. We could even theorize that the ancient god mentioned in the fingerprint shield is the GEQs grave and that maybe the Nox didn't kill this god and merely looted the grave, but the timeline on that might be odd. I can't say for sure. Further we can ask who's fingers were the three fingers, this ancient god's? GEQs? Or are they even fingers? Are they merely an apparition of something we will accept messages from? If Marika put the nomadic merchants in that hole in the ground it would also imply she put the tomb down there that held a dead god. A god she killed maybe? Really seems like that's where she puts shit she wants to forget about... The shunning grounds and all that.

Misc images that may be relevant!

[epicfroggz]

Why do you think Messmer would still love his mother in an AU where he survives his battle with the Tarnished? Him cursing Marika with his last breath implies that his love for his mother finally broke, and became conscious hatred

Hi, thanks for the ask!!

“Mother… Marika… A curse, upon thee…”

He switches to “Marika” quite pointedly in this dialogue. I interpret it as: Messmer loves his mother very much, but he hates what she has become. It was not Mother and her love that sealed him away, but Queen Marika and her fear. He loves the memory of her from before the Golden Order, that kindness she once had, and wishes to see that woman returned.

(more below cut! the AU this is referring to can be found here)

The undercurrent of hatred is more-so implied than stated by Messmer in my ending. At first he is suspicious that Marika has abandoned her conviction and chosen a lightless Tarnished as Lord (the ones she herself stripped the grace from), but finds that, since you are strong enough to defeat him, 1) her reasoning might still be sound, but more importantly, 2) the world has changed and Marika has changed with it. Keep in mind that, from the Wrath From Afar incant, we know those in the LoS have no idea what went down in the Shattering, only that “something” happened. Returning the Notes or the Blessing of Marika to him makes him recall the mother that once cared for him (hence the “based on a childhood memory” part of the Notes description), and gives him the idea to return to the Lands Between to find her. While on your travels with the Juvenile Serpent, Messmer sees what has become of the world, and begins to develop a strong conviction of his own (the Church of Vows dialogue). At the foot of the Erdtree he thus says that he wishes to confront her—to ask her “why?”—but in the end, he finds he is unable to speak to her due to her shattered state. So, partially out of revenge/hatred/frustration, and partially out of pity/sadness/hope to “put her back together”, he eats her whole.

That is essentially the arc he has in my ending. Separating “Mother” from “Queen Marika”—wanting to save the former and usurp the latter, and mend everything that is broken himself because she is no longer capable. He forced his old mum to retire, if you will. For her own good. :)

- Froggo

[valkyurii]

me coming home wearing dlc gear and weapons and smelling of other bosses

malenia: welcome home cheater

[bakaforbrains]

*wawa but lowercase and in cursive*

[telestoapologist]

would it be fair to say that it feels like ikora keeps getting pushed aside. like that's not to say seeing the pov of other characters isn't important. but like? more than once she's felt like a character that could've been utilized really well, and then just like. wasn't. or was only given the bare minimum amount of attention- primarily with screentime.

[noxith-sky]

Something something,

Marika removing her (self) love and putting it into Miquella before doing what she perceives has to be done and shattering the rune and destroying herself. And Miquella, removing his (self) love and tossing it into the deepest pit before doing what he perceives has to be done and trying to ascend to godhood to fix everything.

[miquella-everywhere]

WOW WHAT COOL LORE

I sure hope the DLC doesn't Retcon this important piece of information about Marika!!!!

o h w a i t

[drenched-in-sunlight]

saying this as respectfully as possible but. Do not put fandom content creators on a pedestal. We are also just fans contributing to a community just as you are. We have boundary on our own work and that’s it. What I say is not and should not be considered sth the whole fandom should listen to. I’m just a normal ass person ranting about things on my blog. If it does not have a fandom tag for others to engage in, do not make it out to be me trying to start fights or addressing the whole community. Because it’s not.

I’ve said it before and I will say it again, my art, my lore talk, is biased. I’ve never tried to hide that I view Marika a certain way and will always develop my theory following that base assumption.

Aside from translation stuffs and pointing out in-game items, everything else I say you can look at it, agree or disagree, and move on to form your own opinions. Just because I draw stuffs doesn’t mean you get to saddle me with responsibilities about managing fandom expectations. What the hell? I’m a fan artist, I’m the last person who you should look at for “leaderism” (?) WHAT?

I can and will be a hater in my own space, like I know sometimes other artists will just post their stuffs and not engage too heavily with fandom, and for a while I did try to do that here (because I’m already a dramatic ass on twitter), that’s just not me though.

You will get art and you will get my opinions as well.

[dantelionwishes]

heyyy didnt i say turquoise went to a unovan school to study being a trainerrr 😊😊😊😊😊

[hellomehlo]

yeah, Jaws of Hakkon was pretty…

pretty DIFFICULT 😅

[agentc0rn]

A list of Indigo Disk Revisions

Typed down a rough batch of ideas, which I won't be able to put into complete writing or drawing, but can't stop imagining (will keep editing and adding stuff as some thoughts are some incomplete).

Made a pretty long list lol so get some snacks ready if you have time to spare. Disclaimer: did this just for fun, bunch of indulgent thoughts. Indigo Disk is a whole lots of fun, but I think its potential could have been explored more.

Each time you beat the elite four, there is a brief flashback of them interacting with each other and Kieran.

Lacey = bumps into kieran while organizing stuff at the League Club Room, Kieran orders her to make sure that everyone follows the new rules and stuff since he became president.

Amarys = notices Kieran's change and asks if he is okay, to which he replies coldly with "yeah, I'm fine." She states his sister's concern, but he brushes off with a cold shrug.

Crispin = asks kieran if he wants to hang out at the cafeteria, but kieran declines, saying he has stuff to do. Students pass by them, whispering about Kieran.

Drayton = congratulates Kieran for beating him, but he goes up to and him says: "Was that all you really got, ex-champion?"

You get to meet Briar in a small class event (invited by her), and there she discusses terastal energy and its history. She's not only a history techer but also the one in charge for assigning students to test their strengths with terastalization.

As you progess, you can visit a lab room in blueberry academy where you can find Briar's research, books, documents about terapagos, Heath, and such.

Once the second elite four is defeated, Briar asks you to come, taking notice of your rumored streak of success. She begins to recount her time at blueberry academy and her travels across different regions before introducing the origin of the terastal energy orb as a whole and Terapagos. At some point, she gives you a reason why she wanted to be a teacher, part of it is her interest in the terastal phemenon and its connection between Unova and Paldea, the other is to bring the truth through education (her family name and reputation became infamous and she is determined to bring the facts to the surface - hence the publication later on). She has some grudge against the public for that and becomes increasingly hellbent as we would soon encounter the Hidden Treasure of Area Zero.

After beating the last elite four, Briar invites you once more to the lab room and divulges a secret with you - she has the indigo disk (entrusted by Geeta who recieved it from the OTHER PROF who bailed out from the research years ago, having no need for its use any longer even from a remote distance) and mentions a mission that you are formally invited to, but she would only explain everything about it after you defeat Kieran.

She briefly explains about The Indigo Disk; it is not just some mere storage item but a special object imbued with the power/properties of Terapagos that enable the activation of the elevator to the lower level of the area zero. That disk was made by Sada/Turo but the other parent took off with it in hopes of diverting the obsessed prof from their grand project, but failed anyways. (this idea is half-baked tbh but still put it there cause i like it)

Then Carmine and others meet you, asking what Briar told you about. You explained to them until midway, Kieran comes and does the thing where he expects you to battle him soon and leaves, etc.

Briar observes the championship battle match alongside Carmine.

Afterwards, issues emerge in Terrarium - the terastal core thing begins to destabilize or something (it reacts to terapagos' awakening)... Overgrown crystals slowly take over, causing people/wild pokemon to evacuate. Cyrano requests an emergency meeting with the Elite Four, Kieran, us and Carmine. Briar joins also.

We met additional support, consisting of Geeta and the other parent (who also introduce themself). They report that there is an influx of paradox mons flying out of Area Zero due to a strange phenomenon (gradual awakening of terapagos). After the meeting, you recieve a call from Nemona, Penny, Arven and Clavell who all wanted to check in with you.

Briar proceeds to delve into mission(just like in game) of exploring the deeper level of area zero and investigate the source at hand. She invites the Elite Four, but they all declined due to the reason of attending to their duties and keep watch over the terraium dome, thus leading to the formation of the same group in the game.

Before they leave, they all give you some parting words - advice, encouragement - you name it.

Once you arrive at Area Zero, you will meet Geeta and the other parent. They explained that Terapagos' awakening is partly caused by various factors - ecological ones mainly the increased population of the paradox mon (time machine), seismic activity, Glimmora eating off the crystals (the protective covering) and arrival of people (Heath, the profs, and now us). You will then engage in some double battles with the squad as you encounter some paradox mons - including the new ones - and continue your descent down to the deepest level of A0.

Along the way, Geeta recalls her venture to area zero years ago when she went to check in with the prof's research. She does not remember all the details but remembers finding and treating an injured Glimmora (her own), before falling into a trance of sorts and seeing someone, which she informed the Prof about. She also answers somewhat the mystery of the plate and symbols - there was once a a small civilization, "theorized" to be survivors of the expeditions during the age of exploration who chose to remain there. The steel plate was made likely to record their presence and memories of the empire they long served (landmarks/settlements aka the towns) as a we-were-here or a warning message for those who would come by it in the distant future (again, half-baked idea but wanted to put this out there). Additionally, the four symbols may have been reference points of the four seals (based on the theories on youtube).

The other parent then asks you about Arven after hearing about your part in saving Paldea and admits their fault and regret for abandoning him. More dialogue ensues (you, Kieran, Carmine, etc). Carmine mostly talks to you, asking you about area zero and your life at Paldea.

When you go to the area where the crystalized tree stands-you and Briar undergo a trance and meet Terapagos (?). It reacts at Briar due to her resemblances with Heath as well as you for holding the indigo disk (yes you can eject it rather than it being stuck in the machine); it needs the indigo disk to recover parts of its power. Once both of you recover, others come along and asked what happened out of concern. This only fueled her ambition to seek out terapagos.

Briar forces you to keep going despite going against the guidelines and plans of letting Geeta and the prof go first and deal with terapagos, claiming it was crucial for her to obtain information firsthand while using you and the kitakami siblings as her dirty assistants (and reckless as Kieran says).

Then like the game, Kieran, sees an opportunity and pulls at the gem, which Briar nags on, convincing him that she understands how he feels about being misunderstood. Carmine and us try to interfere, but then terapagos awakens. Same thing happens. Boom. Kieran captures it in a master ball.

You battle it and Briar encourages Kieran to terastalize it, causing it to go berserk. Crystals slowly emerge as well as crumble from the ceiling.

By the time Geeta and the other prof come to aid as they finish battling the stella-type mons, Terapagos transports all of you into another room, not the chamber, but rather, the same place where Heath met - an out-of-the-world, temporally and spatially displaced setting. It takes your indigo disk, absorbing it and transforms into the stellar form, overflowing with tera energy. You now engage in a tera raid style (like in the game).

Briar goes nuts by going on a rave, something like this: - "finally, the Hidden Treasure of Area Zero reveals itself at last! You cannot fathom how long I have been waiting for this! I can share the truth and prove how wrong the world was!"

Then, Kieran has his shining moment and helps us beat terapagos. However, the earth continues to rumble and crack underfoot. Briar stands there, continuing her tirade or something as the cave is collapsing, but Koraidon helps us get out of it and back to the elevator site (at the end, she departs her role as a teacher and faces some legal consequences for endangering the kids and receives some help, all off-screen).

(the crystals from the terrarium also stop and "dissappear" due to the end of terapagos' rampage).