#and even then you need an ACTUAL RESCUE not buying a puppy from a 'breeder'

[molluskzone]

*googles "serval" in order to find art references*

the very first fucking photo result: "hey guys just bought a cub!" *photo of baby serval inside somebody's house*

[doberbutts]

Hello, I have a Dog Question.

I grew up with dogs who were rescue mutts but now that I'm an adult I'm looking at getting a dog from a breeder. All my research says "make sure the breeder is reputable" but I don't know at all how to assess a breeder's reputation. I don't even know how much is normal to pay for a dog, and when I look it up, all the websites seem AI generated. Do you have any advice on where to get more information about that kind of thing? Are there any registries that are really trustworthy, or is it better to try to find word-of-mouth networks on who has a good reputation?

If you don't have any advice, no worries, thanks for reading my question anyways.

It can really depend on what type of dog you are looking for! There isn't necessarily one right answer.

Personally I don't care about reputation (reputable) more than I care about the breeder's personal code of ethics (ethical) being relatively close to my own.

Breeding dogs should be health tested. Not just a DNA test but whatever they may be at risk for due to their size or breed or genetic mixup. These results should be made available to you as a potential buyer, and the breeder should be weeding out or making informed choices for dogs with less than steller results. You need to know what is something that just needs to be bred to a dog with better results, vs what shouldn't be bred at all. This, as said, can vary depending on what exact dogs you're looking at.

The breeder should be asking you for more than just money. Talking to you and making sure that you are the right home for their puppy, and letting you also talk to them and make sure you actually want to buy from them. Do they say things about the dogs that don't sit right with you? Are you okay with the way they keep their dogs? Are they well fed, vaccinated, and have their needs met and cared for? Can you see proof of that? People will just say whatever, but seeing is believing.

What's the average price? Different breeds cost different amounts of money. Dobermans are very expensive! Other breeds cost less. Some cost more! If they're mixing breeds, why and what are they looking to create? Does it seem successful or are they just producing a bunch of dogs just to produce a bunch of dogs? Does the high price seem justified? Dobes are expensive because the health testing is very expensive, but less health tested breeds are cheaper. Is the breeder actually doing that expensive health testing or are they charging high without justifying cost?

Registries are not proof of ethics. Being registered with a registry just means that the dog has a traceable pedigree. So we know who the parents are, great. It doesn't determine anything else about the dog though. There is no registry that I would say exclusively has ethically produced dogs. However if a dog is of a breed that can be registered and yet isn't, that is a red flag.

@molosseraptor is a good friend of mine that runs a dog breed matching service and she also knows how to help people find a breeder that works well for them. I would trust just about any recommendation I got from her! She might be able to help you narrow down the list.

[heart-of-copper-dog-training]

Purebreed vs Rescue

A common debate among the dog loving community is purebred dogs vs rescues. Several things contribute to this and of course I'm going to talk about my own opinion on them.

First, I'm going to say that while there is such a thing as a bad breeder, there are also ethical breeders who genuinely care about the health and welfare of their dogs, as well as the temperament and purpose of the dogs they are breeding. To buy from these breeders is not a bad thing if you know what you need in a dog, have a specific purpose in mind, or simply want to know the most likely temperament and health from puppy to adulthood because it is much more controlled. I also contend with certain breeds of dogs being bred to more and more extremes (french bulldogs, bulldogs in general, any dog with high health issues due to their need to conform to "standard") because these are NOT ethical. They may be well cared for and have a certain temperament, but I can't support dogs that can barely breathe and often have expensive surgeries and/or die due to aesthetics.

Buying from an unethical breeder is something I will never agree with. I'd say your average dog owner knows what a puppy mill is, but many don't understand why a backyard breeder is not much better. Supporting those who breed simply because they have two dogs that are technically purebred (getting an akc registration is actually easier than you'd think) is supporting over breeding, even if the dogs are well cared for. These dogs are at best minimally medically tested with random temperament, and at worst, simply purebred with no testing in any way. Please do your research before buying.

Pet shops carry unethical dogs. Whether fad breeds or "rare" colors (i.e. nonconforming or not even possible colors like a silver lab which is a mix of a Weimaraner and a Labrador), an ethical breeder will not supply these shops.

Fad "breeds" are also something I struggle with. Many of these doodle mixes have become a bane on the dog world. They are cute and adorable, but often mixed with breeds that cause incompatible drives leading to heavy behavior problems being bred into them right from the start. Doodles are worse off due to their cuteness and being marketed as "great beginner dogs" which often translates to new owners as "needs minimal to no training/socialization". While doodles do bring in clients, I would rather they not. Same goes for many of these "purebred" crossbreeds, such as shepskies, pitskies, etc. These dogs are selling for high prices with breeds that should not mix and can cause at best challenging but high drive dogs and at worst a bit of a nightmare for most dog owners.

All that said, I support ethical breeders. I support buying a dog for a specific job (service, sport, search and rescue etc). And I support new owners looking for a more predictable dog with the lifelong support a breeder will bring to that dog. Buying responsibly is not a bad thing, and is what keeps some of these breeds alive.

Now, let's talk rescues. Rescue culture is interesting. Back when I was younger, we just called dogs from shelters/streets/oopsie litters mutts. Sometimes we got lucky and got a purebred from a shelter, and we'd say that was a lucky find (by the way, there are purebreed rescues and many dogs in shelters are purebred, often due to guardians not knowing the demands of a breed or overbreeding). The culture around mutts has shifted to become a more positive one. Now we say "rescue", seemingly referring to any dog that is not directly from a breeder or pet shop is a rescue. I have personally rescued dogs off the street. This is not a humble brag, just a statement of facts. Of those I picked up, several were in poor health and needed medical treatment, and many were just a little dirty and skinny in need of a bath and food. Of these, I kept none, but rehomed all of them.

I'm not here to gatekeep the term rescue, but to put some context into it. While I support adopting from shelters, there is a new culture of calling all dogs in a shelter a "rescue" even if the dog was born there, an owner surrender, or never in any medical/physical/mental trauma to begin with. This culture shift was to aid the shelters in moving dogs and encouraging guardians to "adopt not shop" wasn't enough. They needed to have people feel good about their dog in a way that was more than just "I didn't buy a puppy" so they shifted to calling all dogs rescues. I don't necessarily think it's a bad thing, but it leads to a ton of misconceptions.

Shelters are a traumatizing environment for dogs. Many dogs who are in a shelter long enough suffer mental trauma and can appear as though they were abused. It's very easy for a shelter or future guardian to talk about their dog in a way that personifies them (again, sometimes helpful, sometimes not) and paints a tragedy around a dog who probably was never abused but actually just needs help working through the trauma of just being in a shelter.

Why is this a problem? Well, it's because I meet guardians who assume nothing can be done, that this is "just the way she/he is" because "they were abused". They "hate men" so therefore "a man must have hurt them". So while they love their dog, they never seek the proper help for their dogs' mental state and the dog carries that trauma with them. But they do get to carry that badge of honor saying they "rescued" a dog, whether or not any abuse took place.

I have met puppies from a breeder (I actually have a client right now with this issue) that started from a breeder but was (in this specific case a covid puppy) undersocialized. These puppies turn into adult dogs that are fearful, skittish, and scared of things they weren't ever exposed to in a positive way. Things such as men in hats, tall people, people who are not in the household. These dogs duck and cower and bark. These dogs would appear to be "abuse cases" if they appeared in a shelter (and many of them do, because these behaviors can become overwhelming and guardians can feel too ashamed to return the dog to the breeder or worse, got it from an unethical breeder). Maybe their temperament was poorly bred, too, which compounded things. These dogs would end up in a shelter with a sob story and probably be adopted by kind hearted individuals who want to save the dog and tell everyone they rescued the dog.

This weird culture over having a "rescued dog" badge of honor leads many guardians who really would do better with an ethical breeder to adopt a shelter dog instead. And, as much as this pains me to say, shelter dogs (abused or not) are not for everyone. Shelter dogs can be a huge challenge. They have trauma, whether from the environment or the past, whether they are undersocialized or oversocialized. They will often come with behaviors that are not for the feint of heart, and certainly not for first time guardians. But people feel guilty buying from an ethical breeder and feel the need to defend their decision.

Marginal dogs are often adopted out to inexperienced guardians. Even going to an experienced guardian or trainer can cause rescue burn out. A family feeling the pressure of adopting and "rescuing" rather than getting a dog that is more practical for their lifestyle will adopt these dogs and sometimes get lucky, but often times end up with a dog they have no idea what to do with and may quickly return, leading to a revolving door for some dogs which adds to shelter trauma. A family who gets enough behavior problem dogs from a shelter without knowing where to find proper help ("this is just how they are because they were abused") WILL burn out and WILL make shelter dogs look like "all shelter dogs are bad dogs" and "all shelter dogs have behavior problems".

Shelter dogs are a big, beautiful unknown. They can be diamonds in the rough, or they can be a new learning experience for an upcoming dog trainer. They can be the inspiration for some to LEARN about training and behavior in dogs. They can be a therapy dog (Copper, who inspired my namesake, was such a dog), they can be a service dog, a sports dog, a working dog. They can be an anxious dog, a dog with separation anxiety, a dog with aggressive behavior towards certain triggers. They can be beautiful or funny looking (in the cutest ways) and graceful or clumsy as Scooby Doo (looking at Pancake right now). They can have past health issues that come back to haunt new owners or be more healthy than most purebreds.

So what does all of this mean? Who's better, purebreds or rescues?

I think the more important question is: what do you want in a dog, and what are you prepared to handle? Once you know that answer, you will know who is better for YOU.

Stop shaming ethical breeders. Stop shaming shelter dogs who have behaviors their guardians don't have the knowledge or resources to handle. Stop shaming those who bought from an unethical breeder unknowingly because they were never given the chance to learn. Stop shaming guardians who turn to breeders after having a bad experience with a shelter dog.

Educate. Show sympathy and kindness. Show them resources for any of these guardians. Why are huskies a challenging breed, and what can guardians do with a shelter dog that needs more help?

Dogs are dogs, and we love them. But we are doing a disservice by simply slotting them into "breeder vs rescue". We are ignoring the nuances of what these terms mean and we are not educating those who need it most to help those dogs who need it most.

We need to focus on our mutual love for dogs and educate those who do not have the knowledge, background, or resources to find it themselves.

As always, be kind to yourself, to your dogs, and to others. It is free to be kind.

[luulapants]

Stuff I learned in pet rescue

I used to foster dogs and ran application screenings for a dog and cat rescue, and I’ll admit it left me pretty jaded about pet culture in general. Here’s some things I learned:

People regularly claim they are rehoming a pet or their pet “unexpectedly” had kittens/puppies - but expect you to pay an adoption fee - as a cover for unlicensed dog breeding or even pet theft and resale. Don’t buy pets from individuals you don’t know. Go to a rescue.

Animal hoarding is more common than you think and doesn’t always look like a TLC special. If you can’t adequately care for them all while maintaining a sanitary home, you’re an animal hoarder. Hoarders love animals and are preoccupied with the idea of animals being put down if they don’t “save” them. Most do not believe they are animal hoarders and will argue that it’s different in their case.

Most people who have large and/or sporting breed dogs should not have them. Some breeds need miles-long runs every day. Some need a job. If you can’t provide the level of activity/engagement the dog needs, you should not have that dog. I will die on this hill.

Most behavioral issues in large dogs are because the dogs aren’t adequately exercised or engaged.

“Demon” small dogs are a thing because people don’t train them. If you don’t train a husky, it will destroy your house. If you don’t train a chihuahua, it can’t do that much damage but it WILL become a demon.

Don’t get a dog or cat unless you’re prepared for that really expensive vet bill. Yes, that excludes a fuckton of people. Sorry, if you’re paycheck-to-paycheck, you should not get a dog or cat. Assume there will be a $2k vet bill. Once it comes, there will be more. Many animals are in rescues because their owners surrendered them due to vet bills.

If you're renting, only get pets that will be accepted at most rentals. Your current place might allow that many cats or a dog that big, but if you have to move, you may suddenly find yourself unable to find housing that allows your pets. Again, this leads to owner surrenders.

There is no good reason to get a pet anywhere but a rescue/shelter. “But you never know if they have issues!” You don’t know that about the puppy from the breeder either. Any dog can have health issues. That’s how health works. “But I want this specific breed!” Find a specific rescue for that breed or wait for one to show up in the shelter. Or just suck it up and get a mutt - they’re usually smarter and healthier anyway. So-called “ethical” breeders aren’t actually regulated in any meaningful way. Plus, you can’t convince me that it’s ever ethical to pay hundreds or thousands to someone who creates more pets on purpose when there are pets already here that need homes.

[elfdragon12]

Thinking about the advice that first time dog owners should get puppies rather than adopting adult dogs.

I've talked about it before, but man! It's very misguided!

Puppies are an even bigger commitment than usual for dog ownership. You have to do everything from the ground up: house training, leash training, obedience training, crate training, socialization, and dealing with young separation anxiety! It's a ton of work!

Puppies (and, later, adolescent dogs) have tons of energy and want to get into everything. Plus there is a mouthy stage to deal with.

Buying from a breeder is a tricky process as there are plenty of folks just looking to make money off of popular breeds without bothering to keep up with the health or temperament of their dogs. (There are puppies at shelters from mothers put up for adoption though.)

Just because a dog is in the shelter doesn't mean it's there because it was rescued from an abusive situation that a dog needs help recovering from or had temperament problems. Sometimes, it's a perfectly well-behaved dog that the previous owner had to give up because major life changes kept them from properly taking care of it. There are plenty of good dogs that can use a home that would be just fine for a new owner.

Getting a dog, especially for a first time owner, is all about finding a good match, no matter the source or age!

While my family owned dogs as I was growing up, my current dog is my first dog as an adult. She is actually not what I think most folks would suggest for a first time owner, being a shar pei/husky mix (though I had to do a DNA test to figure out the husky part). However, I enjoy benefitting off of someone else's hard work and am living with a wonderful dog that's calm, quiet, and loving (without being clingy). She's not a perfect dog (pulls, super high prey drive, and stubborn), but she's been perfect for me. Even the higher than expected exercise needs has been nice as I actually go out to enjoy local hiking trails and she's a tireless companion for them.

Adoption worked out really well for me and would work for other new owners as well. It all depends on the person, their lifestyle, and what they're looking for. A young puppy is not a good fit for everyone. Adoption may not work for everyone.

Don't turn people off from adoption because you think raising a puppy is automatically easier.

[carharttlesbian]

Okay I agree with you and I’ve been thinking about this a lot recently. I understand the intention behind “adopt don’t shop” but when I was looking for a dog ALL the dogs in every local shelter were pit bulls or dogs that were noted to have high prey drive. And people keep telling me that pit bulls aren’t inherently dangerous but it’s like I know what the breed was developed to do and I know plenty of people who have adopted pit bulls who seemed docile and sweet only to show signs of aggression later. Meanwhile there are a handful of breeders nearby who seem to me like they’re very ethical and responsible and it’s like. Why must I accept a breed I’m uncomfortable with instead of buying a well raised healthy dog from a breed that actually suits my lifestyle.

yeah like i’m very far out from being in a place to devote my time to a dog but I really do want to do dog sports at some point in the future and there are a few breeds on my short list for this. And i’ve been like orbiting dog people spaces on social media and i’m aware that truly responsibly ethically bred dogs have long wait lists (because responsible breeding can mean a litter every one to every ten years) and i’m okay with that. rescue dogs can be a gamble and that’s even when we assume all rescues always tell the truth… i know truly responsible breeders are not common but frankly as pet owners we need to take responsibility for sourcing our pets well. puppy mills would not have cause to exist if people hadnt proved that they don’t care enough to do the research about where their pets come from. obviously both health and behavioral issues can arise from well bred+traced dog lines but you can drastically improve your odds if you do your research and wait for the right dog from an ethical breeder..

one argument i see is that breeders shouldnt exist because there are pets in shelters that need good homes. well, even if we assume that those pets meet the needs of prospective pet owners, responsible breeders will take their dogs back if they aren’t wanted any more. there was a case earlier this year in utah I believe, where a golden retriever breeder had a take back agreement and his puppy ended up in a shelter - had been seized from a mill, unclear/i don’t remember how he got there - and he had to go to court to get his dog back. so well bred dogs generally aren’t sitting in shelters and contributing to shelter overpopulation because their breeders don’t want them there.

adopt or shop responsibly is what i think. rescues are not always going to fit the wants and needs of everyone, not everyone wants a purpose bred dog, and people should be doing research about where they’re acquiring animals whether its a shelter or a breeder.

[uglyteapot]

I literally work in vet med and with rescues and shelters, and we need people to understand this better. Yes, euthanasia IS ugly and unfortunate and horrific! Sadly it has become literally necessary, especially in places like Texas where overpopulation is rampantly out of control. “no kill” shelters often take in animals that are harder to adopt, yes. And that animal will spend its life being dumped around from various fosters and other rescues for years while they claim it as a success story. They spend thousands and thousands on one specific animal. At places like the spca, the same amount of money is spent to save or spay/neuter dozens of animals, and they are stuck with the ugly but necessary job of population control (which btw, is literally traumatizing and causes industry wide mental health issues) They also do this terrible job while “animal rights” people call them horrible human beings.

And who’s fault is all of this? Irresponsible pet owners and breeders. Yes, even your friend who just bread their dog once to ‘give their dog the experience’. Or the guy who doesn’t think neutering his dog is fair because it ‘takes away his manhood”. Or the person who refuses to keep their cats indoors because “they belong outside”. You don’t know where those puppies and kittens truly end up. you don’t know if they end up getting fixed. you don’t know how many litters YOUR animal indirectly creates. One single feral female cat can produce over 100 kittens in a lifetime. A female dog can produce 70. Male cats and dogs can sire a limitless amounts of litters.

If you hate this, know that animal workers hate it more! If you want to actually make a change, tell people to do the following:

Support the “kill shelters”

Foster animals

volunteer or donate to shelters

Stop giving breeders money

Stop buying animals off of facebook

Stop buying ‘designer’ breeds

Spay and neuter your fucking animals!!!!

I think this is super important to remember.

[sergle]

how do you go about finding a breeder? i worked in a vet's office and this poor couple had 7 goldens die before the age of 10 due to having cancer but they would always go back to the same breeder bc they had cream goldens. and idk it just seems like breeders can be indifferent to what traits are being passed down because it's all about selling the puppies. and the quality of life of the mother dogs seems questionable in a lot of cases. what research can be done to avoid things like that??

SO it depends on how hard the breed is to find, and the area you live in, but goldens are a super common breed so it wasn't too tough. some breeders work in tandem with rescues and shelters, and so any breeder found through that source is usually good. BUT. the main thing that I did is that I just looked for a long, long, long time. I was scanning for puppies for MONTHS. In the end, I looked for one that had lots of public photos of their dogs, and I actually kinda focused on the backgrounds of the pictures. I didn't go for any where I could see that the photos were taken inside of kennels/barns/fenced in areas with no grass, where it's clear the dogs are not living inside. I ended up finding some people whose goldens are AKC registered, they had so many photos of their family dogs laying in couches and in beds and playing in a grassy yard (and getting starbucks but that's neither here nor there), they wanted a lot of info from ME, and there was hella paperwork concerning the health of the puppies, and my obligation to keep them healthy. They also needed to call me on the phone a couple times, and at the end I realized it was because they get a better feel of somebody's vibe by literally speaking with them, when it's so hard to tell over text if they're a creep. There were also lots of photos from previous litters, sent in by the puppies' new families, that they reposted to their page, so I was able to feel pretty confident that I wasn't dealing with some puppy mill situation. Good breeders also usually have this thing in the paperwork, where, if there is ANY problem with the dog at all, they will take the puppy back. So there’s no, “gotcha, the puppy’s sick! ZING! no takebacks!” The caveat here is that I'm not a dog expert, this is my first time even looking into the world of breeders, and I have never tried to get a specific breed before, lol. But the most obvious thing is, if a breeder is reputable, then they will be majorly braggy about it. They'll take any opportunity to show you the photos of the puppies, the parents, their living conditions- they'll let you know that all their parents and puppies have been tested for X Y and Z potential breed health issues, there will be paperwork, they've probably chipped the puppy for you- it's a lot. If someone's just trying to turn a quick dollar, they're like HERE buy the puppy, yeah I'm not gonna vet you at all. give me a thousand dollars. yanno. Sorry for the long post lol but it took me a lot of time and work to be even remotely comfortable interacting with a breeder, and I know that it's sometimes a difficult task, and always a touchy subject!

[theequeerstrian]

A person just needs to take one look at a normal shelter and see the overwhelming evidence of dog breeds average households can't handle. It's all Pit Bulls, German Shepherds, and Huskies. All poorly bred messes of dog genetics and bad instincts. Sure there's some great dogs in that mix, but there's so many more dangerous ones.

To be fair, the vast majority of non-mutt dogs in shelters are also from backyard (aka irresponsible) breeders. Puppies from responsible breeders will always come with a puppy return clause (this is one thing I'm unrelenting on- certain health tests are as needed per breed, but the puppy return is crucial) SPECIFICALLY so that their dogs never end up falling between the cracks and going to shelters and poorly matched homes.

But.. you're absolutely right in that most of those breeds are POOR matches for the average pet home. The best bred husky, GSD, pit bull, etc will not last long in a household that's not prepared for a dog with high drive and/or high prey drive. Pit bulls were bred to fight (at first bulls, and then each other- the fact that aggression is a feature and not a bug is simply fact), German Shepherds were originally bred for herding but have largely been adapted as guard/attack dogs, especially since WWI (though obviously the herding instinct remains, it's just amped up and more readily turned on non-livestock targets), and huskies were bred to have the stamina/drive/love for running miles and miles at a time, often for several days in a row. Sure, not every musher is doing an iditarod every other week, but pulling a loaded sled even for just a few miles is HARD WORK and the resulting dog NEEDS HARD WORK.

There's a huge issue, especially that I've seen in the last decade or so, of people getting dogs purely off aesthetic. Huskies are pretty, Central Asian Shepherd's Dogs are big and "impressive" (this one's usually cis men who haven't examined their relationship to toxic masculinity lol), Pit Bulls have a built in "poor me" sob story for their owners (swear to god this is why half the people who have them do, they love that they get to whine about their poor nanny dog being targeted), and so on and so forth.

When I was a kid you didn't just?? Get any dog? Maybe it was my environment, but I distinctly remember seeing shows on animal planet talk about how important it is to get a breed of dog that matches your lifestyle. I had the AKC's Complete Dog Book and read it cover to cover several times picking out my favorite breeds. As a kid I couldn't FATHOM actually getting to own a doberman, as a child I knew I couldn't manage one so I didn't think it possible. I stayed obsessed though, and as I grew up and was more and more determined to have one someday so I adapted MYSELF to be a good fit for one. When I approached breeders, the ones who were ready to just toss me a puppy no questions asked didn't get any further inquiry. The one who actually screened me, interviewed me to make sure I was qualified? To make sure I wasn't going to dump the dog as soon as it became inconvenient? That's the one I got my dog from. Kandi's puppy contract has a no breeding clause (or if I did want to breed, I had to work directly with the breeder to ensure he was correctly titled and tested first), and a puppy return clause (breeder told me a story of a person who HAD violated this, and it took him months to find the dog and get it back but he did it and thank god bc the dog had been in rough shape, BUT THAT'S WHAT GOOD BREEDERS DO).

This. Has gotten venty/ranty but what the hey it's 7am and I'm avoiding getting ready for work.

ANYWAY.

TL;DR: generations of selective breeding matter, good breeders matter, pick the dog that matches your lifestyle not your aesthetic, don't buy sob stories from manipulative rescues

[is-the-rat-vid-cute]

Rat Care: Where to Buy Rats

There are many options for acquiring rats, since they are generally inexpensive to buy and have a very short gestation period. However, some places that sell rats aren’t actually ethical about their care and shouldn’t be supported. I’d also like to note here that two is the minimum number of rats to buy - they are extremely social animals, and it’s inhumane to keep them on their own.

Pet stores are a common place to buy rats, but this usually isn’t a good idea for several reasons. Rats from pet stores are often bred in conditions similar to puppy mills, which leaves them in bad health. They are also usually not very friendly, and can be less inclined to play with you or cuddle because they’ll be more fearful. They also may have a genetic predisposition to aggression, which cannot be trained out like with dogs or cats. Rat bites can cause permanent nerve damage, so it’s important to avoid buying aggressive rats as much as possible - both for your own safety and your other rats’ safety.

Another issue with pet stores is an ethical one: they generally don’t take proper care of their animals. Pet store rats are commonly kept in tanks (which do not have suitable ventilation) and are kept on paper bedding which doesn’t absorb ammonia and can cause respiratory infections. I know from personal experience how tempting it can be to “rescue” a feeder rat, but ultimately by giving our money to the stores that keep animals in these conditions, we are suggesting to them that their behavior is acceptable and we will buy their animals anyway. For every rat “saved” from a pet store or feeder bin, another takes its place.

Adoption is a slightly better alternative to buying a pet store rat. There are tons of rescue rats that need homes, and it’s more ethical to support a shelter than a pet store, since the pet store isn’t getting any money out of the deal. However, this still poses the risk of any of the issues mentioned above. Rescue rats have unknown genetics and could turn out to be aggressive, have chronic health issues, or may be less friendly than what someone might want from a pet.

Breeders are by far the best option, especially for new owners. This is contrary to what you often hear about other animals like dogs or cats, but there are so many poorly bred rats out there that getting one with health issues is a major problem. This goes double since rats generally only live 2-3 years on average, and most folks will want to maximize their time with their pets. Breeder rats should be bred for temperament as well as health. They should never bite, even when scared, and will naturally seek out human companionship. The breeder will also likely have a record of health issues that tend to run in their lines, so you can be prepared ahead of time and you’ll know what to look out for.

The only downside to buying rats from a breeder is that they can often be hard to find. It’s not uncommon to drive 2-3 hours to get rats from a good breeder, but it’s almost always worth the trip in dollars saved on vet bills and time spent cuddling with friendly rats. You’ll also want to make sure you ask the breeder lots of questions to make sure they’re reputable. Here are some examples:

- What is your cage setup? (You want to make sure the cage is big enough, has enough enrichment, and uses proper bedding like aspen or pine. Avoid breeders who use paper bedding, since that can make the rats you buy more prone to respiratory infections.)

- What do you cull for? (Most ethical breeders will cull aggressive rats and may cull babies with chronic health conditions. It’s also not uncommon to cull down the size of a litter when first born to make sure the mama doesn’t get overwhelmed.)

- What age do you adopt out at? (Rats shouldn’t be adopted out before 6 weeks old, but at least 8 weeks is preferable. The weeks immediately after weaning at around 4 weeks old are incredibly important to ensure the rats develop proper social skills.)

- In what cases will you take the rat back? (Most good breeders will take rats back at any point if they’re able to - whether that’s because the rat is aggressive, isn’t meshing well with your current rats, or needs to be rehomed due to personal circumstances.)

- What do you suggest I do if a rat I buy from you bites me? (If the rat is a male roughly between 4-10 months old, a neuter can fix aggression. Otherwise, it cannot be trained out, and is completely hardwired into their brain. Behavioral euthanasia is often the kindest option for rats that cannot safely live with others, since they will either be depressed and lonely by themselves, or will be at risk of injuring or even killing their cagemates. A good breeder will know this and won’t try to place the blame on you, or suggest it can be trained out. They may offer to exchange the rat for a different one as well.)

It’s ultimately up to you where you want to get your rats, but breeders are often the best choice if you want friendly animals who will want to spend time with you and won’t have too many extreme health problems throughout their lives. Feeder rats from pet stores or rescues can sometimes make good pets, but it’s always a gamble, so it’s important to weigh the odds and be fully prepared for the worst case scenario if you do decide to get rats of unknown genetic backgrounds.

If you have any questions about where to get rats, or want help evaluating a breeder, please feel free to send me an ask and I’ll help you out as best I can!

[antichrister]

controversial opinion that i absolutely know would start shit in rat Facebook groups but

buying rats from a pet store and saying you're "rescuing them" is very much similar to buying a dog from a puppy mill and calling it "rescue".

pet store owners don't see you buying their rats as "saving them", they just see the money you gave them and demand for the "product". just further incentive to continue stocking irresponsibly bred rats. pet shops do not care if their rats (or their animals in general) are quality. it is so disrespectful to ethical breeders who put in a shitload of time, effort, money and care into bettering lines, to breeding rats with good temperament and health, rats that have no problems being handled, that don't have aggression issues - and that's a serious one - rats can develop hormonal aggression at any time past about 2 months to 8 months old, so you could bring home a rat you think is fine and then in a few weeks or months it starts getting territorial and proper biting you and you most likely don't have a clue about what's wrong with it and now you're stuck with an aggressive rat you don't want to touch and the rat is unhappy and it's a preventable issue 🤷🏻‍♂️ one of my babies had hormonal aggression before he was neutered and at one point when he bit me he actually did nerve damage to my finger. if that's someone's first experience having rats, it's very likely that rat is not gonna be handled. aggressive rats are not happy rats. hormonal aggression can be fixed, but genetic aggression can't, and aggressive rats generally need to be euthanized. so why even take that risk?

if you want to actually rescue rats, look into shelters and rescues! look online! there's usually people around who need to rehome their own rats. buying pet shop rats "because im saving them uwu" is just flat out the laziest route. it's just the low effort way. you don't want quality rats, you don't care what your money is supporting, you really just want the convenience of getting them from a pet store.

[severelynerdysheep]

Quick reminder:

There is no such thing as a responsible commercial dog breeder, since not only is commercial dog breeding a form of animal exploitation for the sake of profit. And yes, this includes “hobby breeders” because they are still selling breeding these animals into existence to sell to others. But every breeder adds to the problem of dog overpopulation and the shortage of spaces in rescue centres. The only ethical way to bring a companion animal into your home is to adopt them.

That’s not to say that every commercial breeder is as awful to the animals they breed as places like puppy mills are, many I’m sure, really do actually have care about the animals they exploit/breed, but this doesn’t make their actions justifiable.

“But we need to breed dogs to make sure they have certain predictable traits as working dogs!”

First, let’s take a moment to recognise that the vast majority of people buying form breeders are not buying “working dogs” they are buying companion dogs, and “ sourcing” a companion dog from a breeder is always unnecessary. And in the rare cases that you cannot find a dog form a rescue centre that would be a good fit for you, then there are plenty of other animals of different species in rescue centres that also need a good home. Having a dog as a “pet” is not a right, and dogs (or any other animal) do not exist to serve your interests as a “pet”.

And when it comes to “working dogs” as this is one of the main arguments people use in order to defend commercial dog breeding. It’s really important to recognise that the exploitation of other sentient beings is wrong, and that the majority of ways in which dogs are exploited as “working dogs” are not only ethically unjustifiable, but actively harmful to both the dogs themselves and to others. These include the cruel exploitation of dogs in the army, in the police, in animal agriculture, and for sport/hunting etc. And so, it is not an argument that holds any weight to try to use the exploitation of certain breeds of dogs for these reasons as justification for act of commercial dog breeding.

The only grey area here, unlike the above forms of exploitation, is the issue of service dogs that can help people with health conditions, though tech is increasingly replacing the use of these animals in these ways. I know this in my own personal life. But even when it comes to this, it’s still not an argument for defending commercial breeding since its far more beneficial given the vast numbers in need of homes, to train dogs from shelters for these roles whenever at all possible and practicable, and there are many organisations that can help with this. And theres also a great article here that talks about this issue here. 

“But we need to preserve these breeds!”

No, we do not. It is true that if we stopped breeding dogs, we may lose some breeds. But the reality is that many breeds have been overbred and inbred to the point in which they are not natural and not viable; who are living with painful conditions we’ve breed into them. And when we are in a situation wherein millions of animals are being euthanised for lack of homes, stopping breeding dogs commercially is really the only viable option. It’s an awful thing that we can’t allow these animals to breed as they naturally would, but it is a problem we ourselves have created in the first place. And for once, we need to put the welfare of these animals first in trying to address the consequences of our actions on these animals. And that means that we must stop continuing to breed these animals into existence for our own profit/interests.

Three great articles here and here and here from @acti-veg

Past post on police dogs here

[doberbutts]

seems to me that the real problem isn’t a lack of homes but a lack of GOOD homes. I almost tried going to vet school, but when I actually worked in a vet clinic I immediately discovered that a healthy 50-75% of clients shouldn’t have been allowed to care for anything more than a stuffed animal. the shit you’re hearing on even a minutely basis mixed with the inbred, unhealthy, unsocialized animals you’re handling... So many christmas puppies and craigslist dogs. Yuck.

Honestly, that’s exactly the problem.

There is a solid lack of people who understand what owning a dog means, and as a result a solid lack of people who can actually responsibly own a dog. People have a hard time teaching their male dogs not to mark or hump, people wait to do any training until the dog has practiced for several years, people buy a dog from someone who shouldn’t have been breeding in the first place and then don’t do anything with it until far, far too late... honestly none of these people should have a dog and it’s alarming to think about.

Meanwhile it’s those same people that tell me that it’s not responsible to leave Creed intact- not responsible... how? Because he doesn’t hump or mark and hasn’t produced a single litter, so how are his balls the source of your problem? It’s not responsible to have a purebred dog from a breeder... how? Because he’s the best and longest lived and healthiest dog I’ve had as an adult, and my rescues- one of which was purebred and the other claimed to be but probably not- were unhealthy and had a lot of behavior concerns from their irresponsible owners that needed addressing.

And then they turn around and tell me most owners aren’t like me and they can’t hold people to that standard. Why not? Why not educate people and hold them to a higher standard? If I were to breed dogs, you can believe that I would not let any puppies go home unless I knew they would treat them as well as I treat my dogs. If they were not willing to educate themselves on proper dog ownership. If they were not willing to be responsible with the animals that did not choose to be brought into this world and did not choose to go home with them.

We don’t have an overpopulation problem. We have a responsibility problem. Even in places like the southern US, the issue is that no one wants to be responsible for the dogs they do have and the dogs they bring into this world. If every person producing a litter of puppies was responsible, we wouldn’t have dogs in shelters, period. If every person getting a dog was responsible, we wouldn’t have need for shelters, period. But they’re not, and the shelters and rescues are left to clean up the mess, and then they take it out on those that are responsible because somehow it’s their fault.

[cowboyworf]

i know this is a topic no one likes to discuss, but i need some people to realize that the "adopt, don't shop" mindset should be applied to backyard breeders and puppy mills, but not to actual ethical, skilled breeders.

ethical breeders are doing amazing things right now, one of which being trying to restore certain dog breeds to a healthier state and lowering the chance of medical issues that those breeds are genetically predisposed to. ethical breeders don't just churn out dogs without consideration- they ensure the best possible physical and mental health of their dogs.

and we have to acknowledge that adopting rescue dogs does come with a risk. as someone who has worked alongside rescues for a long time, a lot of them omit information about a dog's behavioral issues or medical state to get them adopted faster. that's a discussion for another post, but it is important for some people to know a dog's temperament before they bring it home, to know the genetics of its parents, etc.

but most importantly for me, the thing that irks me about "adopt, don't shop" and the vitriol against people who buy from ethical breeders is that, by and large, the best service dogs come from ethical breeders. service dogs have an absolutely vital, life-saving job to do. they have the right temperament and physical health, or else it is dangerous, both for the person and the dog. on top of that, certain breeds are much more suited to it than others and, depending on what specific job they need to do, that may narrow the breed choice down even further. service dogs need extensive training and losing a dog to bad temperament or bad health due to not knowing their breeding history is a lot of money and time that people cannot afford to lose. this is why people often go to breeders for service dogs, because rescues are a gamble. (mind you, there are some very wonderful success stories of rescue dogs that became service dogs, and that should never be discounted or ignored!)

all i'm saying is that backyard breeders and puppy mills absolutely should not get anyone's money and need to be abolished, but ethical breeders are not the evil, money-hungry people society has made them out to be and they are certainly not the reason there are so many abandoned dogs. in fact, every ethical breeder i have come across not only does vetting of their customers, but also asks that they bring the dog back if the new owners change their mind. ethical breeders are not the reason shelters are full. it's backyard breeders and shit owners who don't research the dog breed they get, who impulse buy, who don't take the responsibility of getting a dog seriously.

adopt when it is the best option for you. shop when it is the best option for you. and do not shame people with service dogs for buying from a breeder when what dog they get could literally be the difference between life and death.

[trexrambling]

On average, two million dogs are euthanized in the USA each year.

Not two hundred.

Not two thousand.

Not two hundred thousand.

No - Two million.

Why?

Because we don’t have any spay/neuter laws. Because we don’t have proper pet care laws. Because people suck and mistreat or don’t want anymore or just don’t care about their dogs.

A new “trick” I’ve seen with state shelters is to deem the soon to be euthanized dogs “unadoptable” so it can easily be written off. Well, what do they mean by that?

- the dog is scared in its kennel

- the dog has any medical ailment, even if it only requires minor treatment

- the dog was owner surrendered

- the dog is over X years of age (usually around 8+)

- and anything else that makes a dog “imperfect” to potential adopters (which is apparently a freaking long list for some god forsaken reason)

Guys, I literally saw a rescue I follow tag two, five month old puppies today who were in the freaking euthanasia room, literally next to die. Why were they deemed unadoptable? They were scared in their cage. That’s right. They were afraid, so they got the death sentence. Literal babies, guys. Babies.

What can you do?

1) Adopt, adopt, adopt.

No, buying from a breeder is not adopting. Americans purchase 5 million dogs from breeders every year while 2 million are euthanized in shelters.

Read that again. And maybe one more time.

2) Advocate and Educate

A lot of people don’t know what’s actually going on in animal shelters. A lot of people don’t realize how not spaying/neutering your pet can have negative affects far into the future. A lot of people don’t understand the life changing difference they can make by choosing a dog on death’s door versus one that was engineered by the breeders to make cash.

3) Volunteer, Foster, and/or Donate

The rescues pulling from these shelters need help. They literally run on borrowed money/time/energy every day and still don’t stop saving lives. Truly inspiring and hope giving work that deserves whatever support you can give.

[followthebluebell]

asking out of genuine curiosity: what’s the problem with “adopt don’t shop”? (implied but not explained in a post you reblogged)

When it's applied to mill breeders and pet shops, I'm in complete agreement with it. If I remember right, that's what it was originally MEANT to apply to. Then it became co-opted by Animal Rights Activists, who are generally against pet ownership completely. It became a blanket statement against breeders of any sort, vilifying responsible and ethical breeders and those who purchase from them.

So, four years ago, I started looking for a prospective service dog. It was natural for me to start my search within rescues, because most of them were known to me already. I look like a pretty good applicant: I work in rescues, I specialize in handling animals with difficult temperaments, I have vet records stretching back to when I came of age (basically, I've been fully responsible for my cats' vet care since I was 18), and all of my animals have either died of old age or random chance (I've never rehomed any of my personal animals for any reason, including health issues).

But it turned out to be borderline impossible.

The fact that I was looking for a service dog prospect was an immediate disqualification for most of them. This is because a lot of dogs (especially rescue dogs) wash out of training and can't go on to become fully trained service dogs. Since most disabled people can only afford one or two dogs, most of these dogs are returned to the shelter/rescue. That knocked out about 60% of the rescues I was looking at.

Another rescue asked for an 'application fee', which smacks of a scam to me. It was around 40 dollars, but still. That's a shitty fucking thing to do. :/

Another priced their dogs around 800 dollars, which is on the low end range for popular purebred dogs from pet-quality breeders. There was no way I was going to pay 800 dollars for a dog with an unknown genetic background and no health testing if I could pay the same thing and get a dog WITH all that.

Another asked me to take pictures of my fenced in yard, including the gate and ALL the fencing. My land is 22 acres. While it IS fully fenced, many of the fences are inaccessible to me because they're on cliffs. There was no way I could physically get all the pictures.

Most require that you own a house. I rent.

Another rescue had a sneaky little addendum in their policy, stating that they can visit my home at ANY TIME without permission or knowledge and take the dog back within two weeks of adopting it. This place also had a very high adoption fee (around 500 dollars). I don't remember the exact wording, but it was something along the lines of, "You're not ADOPTING this dog. This is a temporary foster for two weeks, and the adoption fee is non-refundable if we take the dog back within those two weeks, which we may do so at any time for any reason without your knowledge or permission."

I was feeling pretty good about the next rescue, until it came out that my pet reptiles are all intact. Like... they're non-breeding. But the fact that they weren't spayed or neutered was enough, apparently, and I was denied. "Come back when they've been fixed," I was told. The fact that they're reptiles, housed separately, and literally have never made contact with each other was deemed irrelevant, as was the fact that attempting to alter a 50 gram gecko would likely kill her. It was the LOOK of things that was important, rather than the actual animal welfare.

The local poodle rescue had a waiting list of approximately 5 years.

There was no way I was going to wait that long. So I started looking at shelters. There are three in my travel radius (did I mention that, as a disabled person, my travel radius is quite small? Because it is). One was immediately knocked out because it has a long history of transphobia against me in particular. One was knocked out because it was going through a panleuk issue at the moment, so I wasn't going to risk bringing it home or to work. The third was almost completely bully breed mixes, chihuahuas, or huskies (which are all fine breeds, but not compatible with my lifestyle).

Another issue with 'adopt don't shop' is that it implies ALL rescues/shelters are equal. They aren't. I've also encountered some extremely unethical rescues who outright lie to adopters about an animals' temperament or health. I've seen rescues who actively purchase puppies from mill auctions, because demand for 'rescue purebreeds' is so high. This is especially common with cavalier spaniels and other in-demand small breeds.

I recently cut ties with a cat rescue who actively refused to report a bad breeder for animal abuse/neglect----this breeder was mass-producing cats and not socializing them or treating them for heavy health issues. Every few months, they'd turn over whatever they couldn't sell to the rescue and these cats were inevitably poorly socialized messes who couldn't even be touched (and these were cats who required a high amount of grooming). The rescue didn't want to turn the breeder in because these cats were in high demand; they were 100% sure guaranteed adoptions. People didn't care that they weren't healthy animals; they just wanted something pretty with a sob story.

Not every breeder is responsible. Not every rescue is responsible either. The saying SHOULD be 'adopt responsibly, shop responsibly'. On a purely pedantic note, you SHOULD be shopping responsibly regardless, because adopting is also shopping. You shouldn't adopt the first cute animal with a sad backstory. You need to look into everything and make sure they're the right fit for you and your life.

I fully support rescues. But I also support breeding. My goal as a rescue worker is to create a world where every animal is born with a home already waiting for them and the shelters are empty. For that, we need breeders to keep producing healthy animals.

Basically, don't vilify people who buy from responsible, ethical breeders. We have our reasons for doing so.