#and doesn't even show up in s3 at all

[chewysgummies]

Before I go to sleep, I just wanna say that this show did killbot 86 so fucking dirty bro.

As if Sylvia didn't have it bad, Killbot 86 had it worst cause he literally exists for that one episode where Peeper acts like a lil bitch and whines like a crybaby to lord hater cause he suck at his job. And dead ass that episode got multiple animation errors so they literally introduced Killbot 86 in such a god awful/lame way by giving him multiple design errors in his first debut while also getting shit on by Peeper so they can prove that he's actually a "CoOL and bADaSs" character that grew a spine in s2 after kissing Lord hater's ass throughout s1. He has such a unique design & and the potential to shine only for them to just keep using him just so he can get his shit kicked in by the main two characters and then leave. That's it. That's literally it. And we barely got to know him so the guy had zero characters other than him being a bad guy & a bounty hunter. In which that could've been interesting cause bounty hunter's job is to capture criminal & fugitive. They're not actually bad guys themselves. But this show really treats them like they are, so now I'm wondering what killbot 86's true motive is since that "Evil as can be" karaoke basically confirmed him to be a villain. And since I love him much, it just upset me now that I'm thinking about it. If he doesn't show up again in S3 and at least give him a proper introduction again after a whole ass decade. What the fuck was the point then.

[celtrist]

I really want to see a more fucked up version of Charlie in canon. Like, okay, I am a die-hard for sweet bubbly girls in media. But I always see how some people make Charlie actually, oh I dunno... demonic? And it's so refreshing for her type of character. I could honestly see her having low empathy (and we kinda see this with how she handled Angel's situation or even Vaggie's nervousness about taking control on an activity). An exploration of that trait (if it was intended) would be interesting to see for a protagonist, especially when her main goal is about helping others. I would love to see her actually have a level of difficulty in understanding others' feelings from the other residents, sinners, and even her father.

But give her a fucked up side. Not a "she gets more power when she's angey uwu", but a "oh, she's a little fucked in the head". It would give so much to her character that she just doesn't have.

@/murmurmurena (don't wanna bother them so slash there we go) has some fun ideas with Charlie. I highly encourage people to check their stuff out! So many fun dark ideas with her character while also still keeping to her canon personality pretty well! Personally, I think Charlie being a bit more naive to her own messed up traits would work best but her also being aware of these traits can make for some interesting character for her.

THIS FIC, "A Game Between You and I". RIGHT HERE WITH THE FIRST CHAPTER. A bit of spoil for the fic here: but I love how they handled Charlie’s absolute ignorance as to why the idea of Russian roulette is horrifying to Angel Dust. It doesn't feel like her being intentionally malicious or aware that she's the odd man out here. This is also a pretty old fic going by only the pilot, but the point still stands that it was such a fun take for her character!

Charlie is one of my favorite characters in the show in part of the POTENTIAL she could have as being the most bubbly sweetheart character while also being the most messed up character in the show. I can't say I have strong confidence with the show's writing and fully expect them to stick with Charlie being the "nice girl but oh no, don't get her angry or she gets scarwy". Which isn't bad for a character mind you, there's just so much more potential to Charlie outside of that trope, especially when you get into the theories of her either being a doll, Roo's biological daughter, or what have you. And for the MAIN CHARACTER of the show, it would be not only interesting but also bring the spotlight back to her.

There's really no question that the side characters steal the show, particularly all the male characters. If I'm honest, Charlie does not feel like she gets a lot of love from the show itself when she's supposed to be the main character. She feels far more flat compared to the rest of the characters (again, the male cast in this "female-lead" show has more depth than most of the female cast currently. I wouldn't be pointing this tidbit concerning the genders of characters if it weren't for the fact Viv defended Helluva's lack of development with their female cast by saying "Hazbin is a female-lead show and Helluva is a male-lead" and Hazbin ended up with it not feeling female lead (to me) and the male cast just completely stealing the show. I don't normally care about gender stuff, especially since I do personally lean interest towards male characters. But using one show as a defense for poor development of the female characters, and then that show not really holding up with no very interesting well-developed feeling female characters irritates me. It's just very clear that these shows don't seem to care much about the female cast :/)

If you like how Charlie is written that's totally fine. PERSONALLY, I just think they're missing so much opportunity with her character by just making her the standard female character type. I honestly don't have a lot of faith they'll actually do something with Charlie's character though. She's a pretty static character in S1 being the same from start to end. Not changing or learning anything to create any development. What does the end of season Charlie do that start of season Charlie wouldn't do? Fight back? Because we see with the pilot (which is the “first episode”) that Charlie does fight people if pushed like with Katie Killjoy and even Valentino. Static characters can work in media depending on the show or their role. But Charlie is the MC of a show about “bettering one's self”. So to have her as a static with not a lot of strong dilemmas for herself (like we see with Angel Husk Al and even Vox) seems silly. Plus, considering Hazbin is telling a whole story and it's not a fun episodic thing, characters are expected to grow on some level. Or else, what was the point of their hero's journey?

[sukibenders]

Me, waking up and remembering how Condal and Hess made Laena into the disposable black girlfriend (wife in this case, not that they even bother to mention it more than once) and had her die more horrifically than in the books (possibly to boost the yte characters), had Daemon and Rhaenyra sleep together during her funeral, have her two daughters be ignored by their father for his second wife's kids, had all three of them become shells of their book counterparts and given less grace by the fandom than in similar regards to the majority yte characters, only for those who called out these actions to be deemed simply "anti Rhaenyra" or just be told they lack media literacy:

[madsway]

now that i've taken in the entire show and am about to rewatch simply because i can............... i'm so pissed that dave erickson got fired because damn........

[sisterdivinium]

Sometimes I wonder whether the cancellation wasn't positive in its own way.

We went out on a high, so there were chances that whatever came next might not match those expectations; we were left with quite a few unanswered questions, which can be inspiring both for those of us who write fic as well as those who try to read more deeply into the show; there are blanks that facilitate a fic writer's making use of them which might have been filled in less satisfying ways should canon have failed to live up to what we each wanted of it...

But I suppose it's easier to look at it like this from the point of view of someone who is invested in creating her own little versions and what-ifs concerning her favourite characters in the show. For someone who is just a reader or who just appreciates all the ways in which fan creativity manifests itself without much taking part in it, I guess there's a bit more dependence on canon.

[bagheerita]

DS9's "Second Skin" once again shaming the Stargate Atlantis writing team by doing an episode they wrote but over 10 years earlier and 50 times better. I went on a rant about "Sunday" vs "Lessons" a couple years ago, but watching "Second Skin" is like seeing what "Michael" could have been if written by people who understood drama instead of only being acted by people who did. There are definitely differences, like we start out having a relationship with Kira which we don't with Lt Kenmore, but with the whole fake identity plot having the person's actual parent there makes it sooooooo much more emotional. (This is what I wanted from "Michael"!! Not just handing him a stock photo that literally looks like it came with the frame and telling him "These are your parents." But an actual emotional connection, any tie for him to cling to to believe your bullshit and not just Teyla being quietly agreeable like whoring her out is the only way you can sell your lies. Because, here in DS9 as well, the lies are so obviously bullshit.) But making it a double blind also, where you lied to the parent as well to make sure you manipulated that honest emotional connection into existing, fantastic, exquisite, Stargate wishes. And in the end the point of the episode is different, as Lt Kenmore is the focus of his episode and Kira is really just the excuse to expose the Legate by having him try to protect his "daughter," but (and as much as I love "Michael") the emotional content here is so much deeper and sweeter. Maybe SGA writers are allergic to honest emotions, or maybe the writers were trying to hedge their bets with not portraying their main cast as being as evil as the Obsidian Order... though if you're going to go with the war crimes go whole hog with the war crimes come on.

[drdumaurier]

I started writing a headcanon about Bedelia and closure and I made myself sad.

[neriyon]

Nothing quite like taking an intrest in a show with 3 seasons, and then the show just kinda faceplants on its own plot mid-season 2 and you have to sit there wondering if it goes back to being good during the last season or not

[mimpinightmare]

VERY HEAVYILY ON WHAT HAPPENED TO JOMO-

(I'm still waiting for that next season, MoonBug. /HJ & Half Delusional-)

never ask a man his salary. never ask a woman her age. never ask a supa strikas fan about:

early season dingaan (i still shiver to this day)

early season el matador (yeah this one's also REAL bad)

LITERALLY ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING FROM S1-2

why klaus is still not a starter... sigh its tiring out here

fc nakama. bc we'll be here all day

where the banger minor characters went!!!!!

the show's timeline. seriously i thought cognito was a new team but as rookie season goes... it's apparently NOT??

how old any of them are

WTF HAPPENED TO JOMO (MOONBUG IM LOOKING AT YOU!!!)

speaking of which. never ask me how tf invincible united got away w hiring an actor to play shakes' supposedly dead dad. that HAS to be a federal offense

sp*ke d*ws*n

s7 finale "game over"

the youtube thumbnails

which voice actor voices who exactly

how the fuck these guys keep falling for inyo's trap

dooma's debut

the show's obsession w feet

the characters' casual clothes... yikes

shakes/skarra. you don't wanna open that can of worms

HOW THESE GUYS ARE STILL ALIVE

what the show is about. DON'T EVER ASK ME THIS. I DO NOT KNOW

[shrimpybbq]

rafe, his fiancée and their family in the 18 month gap between s3 and s4

“What do you think about another baby?”

rafe is ecstatic about the prospect of another kid, and he shows it. he’s constantly spoiling his girl, always doting on her and helping her around the house. he makes sure to hire staff around tannyhill and ensure she doesn’t have to stress, making sure to spend time each night with his family despite the chaos of his day. rafe knows her first pregnancy wasn’t the best (bc of him) and he wants to give her a whole new experience

high school gf was worried about telling him she was pregnant again, knowing how badly it all went the first time. she knew rafe had grown to love his son and his family, but she was still apprehensive about his reaction, knowing he was in a stressful period of life rn. she didn’t have anything to worry about however, seeing straight away how different rafe was with her now. he loved being a father and was so keen to have another baby, especially now everything is his, and he can provide for his family the way he wants

baby no. 2 was a girl, just as rafe wanted. he already has little charlie, who is a carbon copy of himself, but he wants a little girl who looks just like her mother. rafe already loved to stare at his fiancée’s face, but imagining her looking after a mini version of herself - rafe thinks he might die.

as his fiancée and mother of his child, high school gf is living good. rafe is struggling with his father’s death, but mostly, they’re happy - really, really happy. charlie is starting to speak, and he is so excited to have a baby sister

oh you know the jokes are going around the OBX about how rafe just can’t keep it in his pants (but who could blame him when his girl is just so hot)

rafe doing the absolute most to have his fiancée relaxed and resting at all times - he loves to take her out on the boat and let her lay in the warm sun, especially because she gets so clingy when she’s sleepy and calm

rafe who begins to secretly hunt for a new house for the family to move into, wanting a new space just for themselves. tannyhill had too many bad vibes and rafe wants to start fresh

the family are often seen out and about the island with little charlie either toddling in front of his parents, or being swung in between their outstretched arms

charlie becoming known by those on the island as a cheeky little boy, always pulling faces and trying to play with everyone

rafe watching his girl get closer and closer to her due date and growing more and more anxious - he was so coked up the first time that he never really worried, but now he is always hovering and checking in on their baby

rafe is there for this delivery!! he's 100% holding his fiancée’s hand and brushing her sweaty hair out of her face, whispering "you can do this, baby, you've got this"

the nurses let him cut the cord once his daughter is born and he is definitely crying and trying to subtly wipe away his tears

the whole family spending the next few weeks hiding in their new house enjoying their first moments with their new little girl

rafe picks her name and decides to call her emmeline, emmy for short

if any family ever gave off rich vibes, it's the cameron's. rafe has his kids dressed to the nines, nice cars in the driveway of his new house and his fiancée wearing the nicest jewellery

all the women on kildare being so jealous once they see sexy muscular rafe cameron fussing over a tiny little baby, emmy clutched tightly in his arms as his fiancée holds charlie's hand

rafe would never admit it, but he loves the looks he gets when he walks around his little girl - he might be loyal but he still likes to be reminded he's hot sorry not sorry

wedding time!!!!

i think their wedding is actually very casual, maybe even a holiday elopement

rafe doesn't really like the people in the obx that much and so when his girl suggested getting married somewhere quiet, just the two of them, he was like "mmm, why not?"

the pair get married on a private beach in hawaii, rafe in a loose white shirt and a pair of linen trousers, his girl in a silky dress (this is so serious to me)

they hire a photographer and definitely put a big wedding pic on their hallway wall

everyone in the obx knew it was coming (bc they were engaged) but people are still a little shocked that the high school couple actually got married?

i see them settling into a nice routine once back, really just wifey looking after their little family, rafe running cameron development and the family spending all their time together happily

idk i'm just very passionate about the concept of rafe being loved and giving love in return bc it's clear he's capable of it, he just needs to feel safe and nurtured

click here for pre-season 1 rafe, gf & their unborn son

click here for season 1 rafe, gf & their son

click here for season 2 rafe, gf & their son

click here for season 3 rafe, gf & their son

click here for season 4 part 1 rafe, gf & their son

[essycogany]

Sonic HATES Being Wrong

Like…to an extreme degree. Let me elaborate.

This is a very interesting detail I’ve noticed ever since I made my Sonic’s Flaws post. Here, I’d like to talk about Sonic’s most fatal flaw because this conversation gets interesting. The flaw is one every variation of Sonic can be guilty of and one that causes the most damage to his world and even the people he cares about. If you disagree, I understand. Just hear me out and even if I don’t convince you, I hope this turns out to be a fun read regardless. Feel free to give me some context, correct me, or add information if you‘d like.

The Flaw

Sonic is terribly pertinacious and stubborn. Most people would think of Sonic Prime where he doesn’t listen to his friends warning him to not destroy the paradox prism, but when I think of Prime!Sonic I don't think of that. Especially since this version comes off more as an inexperienced teenager trying to figure things out. While in the games, he’s portrayed as rarely being wrong. Not because he’s perfect, but because Sonic never feels the need to change because of past victories. After all, if everything is going his way, why should he change, right? Well, this can be a problem. The scene in S3 ep3 where a few of the pirates were lost at sea, shows how truly stubborn Prime!Sonic (and Sonic in general), can be. He verbally refuses to take accountability for lost resources and unknowingly helps Nine have better predominance over them.

In this scene, No Place was decaying and Sonic finds out that the other pirate crew was stuck there. Everyone else, even the villains, reasonably says it’s too risky and he ignores them. Of course, he is within reason but if things went sour, it would’ve been his fault. Especially since that almost became a reality before the Chaos Council swooped in to help.

Near the end of the episode, Sonic says it’s a win for everyone, but Mr. Doc says, “Was it? Your little friends are safe, but at what cost? The fox can conjure up more minions with the snap of his fingers. Whereas our fleet is damaged, our troops are spent, and we’re almost out of time.” Surprisingly reasonable call out of the consequences of saving the pirates, if they don’t have enough resources, they were even more screwed than before. Then Sonic says, “I’m sorry but losing anyone is not an option.” While it’s warranted and makes sense for his character, it almost comes across as “We had to save them because I said so.” This is an example of Sonic not having a good argument by addressing the results of their battle. He does it a lot more than you’d think. Despite Sonic not listening to people being a bigger staple of Prime, I personally think it’s never expanded upon or executed well. Not to me anyway, but I don’t mind anyone disagreeing.

In any case, Sonic, as a character in every continuity, tends to “follow by his own rules” but this can be perceived negatively as “doing whatever he wants no matter who argues with him.”

Examples

Sonic Boom Rise of Lyric tackles this too. This is probably the least serious example but still can be a problem sometimes. This is S2 Ep 19 when an Eggman robot Clone tries to break Team Sonic apart and almost succeeds too. It doesn’t have much to do with this topic but I do like how in this episode when the drama started happening, Sonic for once in his life tries to talk about his feelings with Tails who turned out to be Steve. I know this has nothing to do with this discussion, but I just thought it was a funny thing to point out. The one time Sonic tries to talk about his feelings, he gets the door slammed in his face. It’s so mean-spirited and stupid. I love Sonic Boom!

But yeah, Rise Of Lyric also shows how his stubbornness can end up with the world being at stake. Or in the case of this episode have your friends grow apart.

The Sonic Movies tackles his shortcomings perfectly. I think he's pretty impulsive in all 3 movies. Mixing his perniciousness doesn't create the greatest meal. He's younger, so that would be expected. This scene is the most recent example. Sonic as a character tends to live in the moment and here, Movie!Sonic is playing a huge role in this category. He’s not even trying to hear anyone out. He’s in a constant rage at this point and can’t think clearly. He wants revenge on Shadow so much he loses himself. His brothers are so loyal to still allow him to get the Master Emerald despite knowing he wants it for revenge. Sonic's so hurt, he even forgets what they originally were there for.

I'm sure if Sonic choose to let his feelings consume him, he probably wouldn’t have saved the world. Why? Let’s just say things would’ve went out of control without Shadow. Sonic dogged a big tangent bullet for having mercy on Shadow.

Yeah, Archie/Reboot Archie didn’t mess around either. I'd say it’s sometimes as tense and bit worse due to him having the biggest ego and ongoing trauma. I'm surprised he didn't go insane. Notice how harsh he is in these instances. He’s overly angry here. Luckily, he has a large group of friends to help him take things down a peg and reminds him how they have his back. Even when worst comes to worst (which is an understatement), his friends are able to get him out of that mindset and put him back in reality. Hunbel him to put it bluntly.

In a way, Sonic's flaws in the Archie comics make me think he feels so guilty that he pushes himself beyond his limits as a way to make up for his loudmouth. Like in other versions, he feels the need to take on more than he can physically handle. He strains his body, mind, and entire being to accomplish tasks on his own because he believes he deserves the punishment. Alternatively, he might just be exhausting himself and attempting to take on more than he can manage. It’s not surprising, really.

This panel is insane for letting Eggy make a valid point. You can tell by his ears how Sonic’s getting visibly irritated. By the end of the argument, he gets super mad and can’t even find a good quip to back himself up. Because in a way, he knows Eggman has a point. That’s how I interpret it anyway.

Game or IDW Sonic is usually in denial when it comes to being wrong. He doesn’t address the issues directly but the person who calls him out for it instead. He’s the most experienced Sonic. I know some people use “mature” but I think experience is a better term due to how he doesn’t have arcs or character growth like other characters. More so he’s used to this song and dance, so his hatred towards being wrong comes from a place of thinking he’s got everything under control. Until it bites him in the butt.

You notice in most of these Sonic’s pretty angry and isn’t the biggest fan of being told off. Even in different continuities, the guy cannot argue without not being self-aware most of the time. The funny thing is he isn’t doing it selfishly. At least not in a typical way. To me, Sonic is the least selfish character in the franchise for a good chunk of the series. He sacrifices himself, gives people more chances than they deserve, and even takes the time to stop his main goals if it means helping someone else. But the guy cannot take the time to admit he’s wrong or his morals have consequences. Not because Sonic thinks he’s better than everyone. I don’t think Sonic sees himself in that way, but I do think he’s always in “I’ve done this thing plenty of times. As long as this thing works, I’ll keep doing it,” mode. Or in the case of Movie!Sonic, goes on instinct which is also a common part of his characterization.

Why Sonic Has This Flaw

Sonic never stops running; he charges head-first into any situation, always striving to do what's right. After all, he's the fastest thing alive. Sonic doesn't have the luxury of questioning himself or dwelling on doubts. While it's true that he has caused some issues, including in the games, he doesn't waste time feeling sorry for himself. The only times he's shown insecurity were during the Metal Virus arc, so interpret that as you wish.

This brings up another point. Crazy how much I didn’t notice, but most of the time, Sonic doesn’t like it when people disagree with him. Understandable, everyone doesn’t want to be wrong. But he takes it to the extreme at times. Like sometimes he's baffled when anyone challenges him. Sonic’s also never truly called out by the right people. I don’t mean Shadow, Espio, Knuckles, or the villains. I mean, Amy, Tails, Tangled, or other characters he’s inspired. People who look up to him. Sure, they try, but I can count on one hand how many times he actually listens. Sonic’s always so caught up in doing things his way that he disregards people who mean the most to him.

I mentioned this in my other post but he doesn't listen to Tails in Sonic 06 or Lost World, so the games count.

While Sonic often has valid points in his arguments with others, he frequently comes across as someone who needs to be right. He rarely allows others the opportunity to express their views or admits when he is wrong. This issue is often overlooked in stories where these conflicts arise, either because there isn't enough time to address them or they remain unanswered altogether. This makes sense, considering that Sonic typically doesn’t undergo character arcs canonically. However, I appreciate the presence of characters like Shadow, Knuckles, Surge, Kit, and certain Archie characters like Scurge. They serve to challenge Sonic’s morals and illustrate that he isn’t always correct. If Sonic isn’t going to evolve as a character, at least these figures can show that his sense of freedom and living by his own rules doesn’t work for everyone. They can be portrayed negatively and can challenge his viewpoints. They can be questioned. They can be challenged. Sonic isn’t always right.

His passion shows that he truly wants things to work for everyone. His stubbornness drives him to the point of frustration as he strives to help others to live according to his ideals. However, at times his approach isn’t the most effective. You can see that Sonic genuinely hates this, yet he continues to push forward to help those in need. There’s something both beautiful and heartbreaking about that.

Conclusion

What’s funny is that Sonic rarely gets angry, so you could say this could be one of his few triggers. Along with people being unjust and other such.

Overall, Sonic has good intentions but the results of those intentions are severe. None of this is to imply Sonic’s a terribly written character. It’s just a serious flaw he has. Though listening to his friends more would help.

I’d be lying if I said I wouldn’t like a moment of his friends noticing a constant pattern of him being pertinacious and not paying attention to anyone’s protest. I wouldn’t want it to come out of nowhere, but it’d be an issue that’d progress over a large amount of time and add up. It could be dramatic or constructive depending on the situation and execution. Whatever character does it, they’d either talk to him about it or physically show the outcomes of his actions. They do it all the time in other media but not canonically. This is just random speculation though. I don’t know if I’m in over my head but I hope someone got something out of this.

All of this is not to say Sonic never takes accountability or listens to his friends. SA1 scene with Amy, when he apologizes to Bell in IDW for being too standoffish, and plenty of other examples. Like the end of Sonic movie 3. That Sonic Boom episode where he apologized for not working with his team. And endless moments in Archie and Reboot Archie. Sonic isn’t unreasonable. Just 9 times out of 10 he can get a big head. That’s all.

Stay Creative! 💜

[callahanisms]

yellowjackets i know your writer's room is mostly, if not all, white people.

mari being pit girl? okay fine. full circle moment. i have accepted and liked this theory since i saw the pilot.

but season 3? is such a fucking shit storm that reinforces everything non-white fans have been saying for such a long time. treating non-white characters as disposable and sidelining these characters for white ones.

and also. did NO ONE think it would be weird if shauna was the antler queen and then the hair she's collected is mari's? is that not WEIRD when you consider the VERY LONG history of white people using the parts of non-white people as war trophies, as decorations, as literal objects?

i stopped watching when i heard lottie died because i'm just fed up with the way the non-white people are treated in this show. treated as plotlines, as disposable, as trophies. never as people. doesn't even get into how this bleeds into fandom discourse. and yellowjackets has always been racist, but s3 really is just mask off about it. and i feel like we should sit down and actually talk about it.

[henry-fox-biggest-stan]

That fucking bike. It’s haunting him, isn’t it.

The bike is a symbol of his disappearance, he was riding it when he went missing.

What other times do we see him riding the bike? In s2 none, yet it’s still on the poster. In s3 after the rain fight, once, also in the poster, and in s4 none, yet it’s still in the poster. That means it’s important, that means it means something. Oh and also we see a bike in Lonnie’s house, child-sized, not suspicious at all.

The bike is, to him, a representation of the trauma the upside down left on him, and to others, the symbol of his absence, his disappearance.

When hopper finds his bike he realizes something wrong is going on, his disappearance is not longer Joyce worrying to much but something serious, “a bike like this is like a Cadillac to these kids. Doesn't make sense he'd leave it out here. He'd walk it home. He was in hurry.” At Lonnie’s house, there’s a bike, a bike in between Jonathan and Lonnie. Why is Jonathan there in the first place? Why is Jonathan talking to Lonnie, who is the (unknowing) creator of that situation? Will’s disappearance. That’s the whole reason Jonathan is there, and Jonathan feels Will’s absence so that’s why he goes looking.

In s2 he never rides it, not even when the rest of the party does, the show makes it clear. Unless the bike in the background is his, but even then, he’s not shown riding it.

In s3, the only moment I remember with Will riding his bike, is after the rain fight. So a scene where he’s sad. But also he lost so much of his childhood, he wants to continue it, make up for it, and his friends refuse, they insist on growing up and Will can’t keep up, he grabs his bike and destroys castle byers, destroys his childhood. Part of the reason he’s sad is definitely mike’s “it’s not my fault you don’t like girls” (although Mike didn’t mean it in a homophobic way), but I think it’s more the fact that Mike made it very clear, they’re not kids anymore, they have to grow up and get girlfriends and let dnd aside. Their friendship is no longer their priority, they’re not children. And yet will still feels like one, their friendship do is his priority and he does wanna spend time with them having fun. He lost his childhood, he wants to enjoy the rest of it while he can, but it’s over, apparently. Another thing the upside down took from him.

However here’s the interesting part, we’ve seen him riding it in s5. In a (as it seems to us rn, without context) happy moment. Will healing from his trauma?

[writerformanymuses]

The heartbreaking thing about a lot of viewers who haven't consumed the books is they don't completely see is WHY Lestat is near sobbing when he asks "Did you hurt yourself?"

Yes, for general reasons like he loves him and what not. But, don't forget, he also said, "I gave you to Armand. You tell me if that is saving."

In TVL, you get ALOT more of the Lestat/Nicky relationship. You see them bond, fall in love, and then Lestat have to contend with that love once he's kidnapped and turned.

Nicky does not take the vampirism very well. Nicky is a very desolate sort of character. Religious trauma to the max, and then throw in family trauma, gay repression, and then vampirism.

When Lestat leaves Paris with Gabrielle in TVL, he essentially leaves Nicky with Armand. He entrusts him into his care in a way, and Nicky chooses the fire. He can't endure as they call it. Naturally, it breaks Lestat's heart.

One of Armand's jobs as coven leader was to cull weak vampires who can't survive on their own or endure. So there is definitely room for S3 for them to show Armand pushing for Nicky to accept the flame.

With Louis, Lestat doesn't fight back in Paris and lets Louis go with Armand. Once again, he's entrusting someone he loves to Armand. Even if it's very much unwilling, but I'll give it to him for once for respecting a choice.

When Armand calls out to him in San Francisco, it's Lestat's worst nightmare. Louis is hurt, Lestat can't get to him. Armand either has allowed him to be hurt, hurt him himself, or did not protect him as Lestat wants him protected.

It is heavily implied Lestat thinks Louis died in San Francisco. In the books, Armand tells both of them the other died to keep them apart. Once again, the person Lestat loves is dead because of Armand.

Lestat, in his mind, has ultimately failed Louis, and so he falls apart as we see him do in 2x08. When Louis shows up, he cannot believe he's there initially. It's very clear he's only half there mentally. He has to ask him if it was all real and if he'd really been hurt because he has to know if it is really Louis. It's a question you'd ask the ghost of the person you love, but Louis CAN answer him.

Needless to say, please read the books if you're up for it. They are a riot.

[willbyersabyss]

It's calling you...

El saw Will in the void when she opened the 1983 gate. He was the one calling to her the whole time.

Brenner told El that the demogorgon was calling her, but what if it wasn't the demogorgon at all... what if it was Will.

The lines are constantly blurred between the demogorgon and Will in s1. Will talks through the lights, the demogorgon comes through the wall. They follow the demogorgon's blood trail, they find Will instead. Will calls Joyce, the demogorgon intercepts. We can never really tell whether it's Will or the “demogorgon.” This blur could carry over to the opening of the gate.

Speaking of phone calls, almost every missed phone call in the show is related to Will in some way. When people try to reach him, they fail. Only when Will calls them does it go through.

I can't even give all of the examples because there are too many, but Will is always associated with phone calls. Will called Joyce in s1, Mike has had multiple missed calls to Will, Nancy tried calling Will in s3, etc. Will has to call, he has to reach out.

When Max calls the Byers, it doesn't just go to voicemail, it's busy. Someone is using the phone despite no one being there. That someone is Will. One of the first scenes we see is Will calling the police, but he doesn't call them, he calls... someone else. Whoever it was, they picked up. But there's no sound other than screeching. Who was screeching? We'll get to that in a bit...

El was called to. The "demogorgon" wanted her. So we have Will who is constantly associated with phone calls, but he's also mixed up with the demogorgon. Why? El answered his call.

The phone call Bob tells Joyce to let go is immediately followed by the lab's lights going haywire, then a door to the Upside Down opens for Will. They also cut to a faucet dripping and a clock going unusually fast. El's void is made of water and there's a clock ticking sound just before she opens the gate. These scenes parallel. The 1983 gate was opened for Will. He was calling out to her, just like the phone.

"All I needed was someone to open the door. And you did that for me without even realizing it." Ok Vecna I'm pretty sure El noticed the giant gate in the wall. So what didn't she realize? El didn't know Will was the one calling to her.

When Mike asked if El saw Will, she flipped the DnD board to the back. We assume she means the Upside Down, but what if that's not what she meant. What if she meant she saw him in the void? The back of the board is pitch black just like her void.

She places Will's character right next to the demogorgon. How does El know that Will is where the demogorgon is? She had to have seen him NEXT TO IT. This is the first time in the story where we see El sensing Will, so why would we assume she saw him in the UD before this point? She hasn't used her tracking power since she opened the gate. There's only one time she could have seen him. When she contacted the demogorgon, there might have been someone else there, lurking behind. Will!

When El puts Will over the walkie, Lucas says this. The name Blackburn means "black stream." The void is black and made of water. Could this be hinting at El tapping into the neighbor of the demogorgon in the void? Mike follows this with "Did that sound like a baby to you? That was Will." Hm that's interesting because we can actually hear Will in the void when El sees the demogorgon for the first time.

Yeah, that's right. You can hear him.

I can only add one video to this post so the number in the corner will align with the text accordingly!

I'm going to sound like a broken record because I've talked about this a few times already, but I think I finally put all the pieces together:

1 - When it cuts to the speaker, you can hear a faint voice come through. This sounds just like Will when he tells El to hurry. So we have a real "Did that sound like a demogorgon to you? That was Will!" moment. If you line up the hurry clip with the speaker video (not pictured), Will starts to disappear in Castle Byers at the exact time El breaks out of the void in the other clip. They're connected.

We don't actually see what's making the noises in the void the first round, we only hear it. What would the reason for this omission be?

I think the moment we see Will in the Upside Down Castle Byers is the beginning of everything. That's when the gate opened.

2 - The scream we hear when El opens the gate is the same scream that breaks Castle Byers. While this is just a demogorgon sound, it's interesting that they used the one that sounds the most human. Especially when this is the least common sound it makes. It has the same cadence and length in both clips!

I would also like to note that this sound has played when a demogorgon wasn’t directly seen. When Nancy emerges from the tree gate, we hear this weird scream too even though the demogorgon clearly wasn’t coming through with her. Gate, scream, invisible demogorgon.

The egg the demogorgon is eating when she touches it is about 20 feet away from Castle Byers. It can't be a coincidence that they placed them so close. They could've had Hopper come across that egg anywhere, why Castle Byers?

Dustin used an egg to test if the deprivation bath was ready. El then found Will in UD Castle Byers using this bath. Eggs are associated with the gate opening, they used an egg just before she finds Will, and THE egg is outside Castle Byers. Will being in Castle Byers is related to the gate opening.

So what if the scream Will hears was the same scream from the gate opening? We don't see a creature on the other side of the blast, just white fog, so can we be sure it was the monster opening the door? Maybe the force of El opening the gate is what broke it. When people disappear from the void, they leave behind the fog we see outside of Castle Byers after the blast. This fog doesn't usually appear in the UD.

Most people don't sense El when she reaches out to them in the void, but Will did. He was reaching out to her. When El opens the gate, Will was already in Castle Byers in the UD. There's time shenanigans here. Time doesn't really flow how it should in the void. El was able to see a pregnant Terry in there before she was swept into her memory loop. Time also is weird in the UD. It wouldn't be crazy for El to be able to open the mother gate after Will got kidnapped in a weird paradox way.

3 - Coming back to phone call weirdness for a second, Will hears screeching over the phone. This may be a stretch, but it kind of sounds like a distorted version of El's screams when she opens the gate? Then Will's phone call was interrupted by the creature unlatching the door. So when Will's call goes through, a door opens. And he's met with the answer to his most fateful call. He hears El screeching as she opens the gate because that was the result of him reaching out.

In their respective universes, both Will and the demogorgon destroy Castle Byers. So that's another mix up between the two. If Will really was the one calling out to El before she opened the gate, his destruction of Castle Byers is not only a physical representation of how he inadvertently destroyed it, but also an emotional representation. Will accidentally created his own kidnapping by asking El to open the gate. He created the trauma that led to his childhood destruction. The rod imagery at the end of this scene proves that.

Another possible reach, but we know that it was raining the night Castle Byers was built and the night Will destroyed it. If El's journey through the watery void also indirectly caused the destruction and creation of the UD Castle Byers, there's more water connections there. The UD isn't just mirroring visuals, but scenarios too.

When Hopper inspects the remains of Castle Byers, he finds a lion plushie. El was cuddling a lion plushie when Brenner told her she was going to make contact with whatever was calling her. The lion causes Hopper to flashback to Sara and El was in a flashback when we see her with her lion. So what if UD Castle Byers is a "flashback" to when the gate opened?

Just before UD Castle Byers was destroyed, Will was singing Should I Stay or Should I Go. While these were not the lines he was singing, the song makes references to time weirdness. "I'll be here till the end of time" implies that Will is stuck in a time loop when he's in the UD. This song being sung during this scene may hint at its significance in the time loop.

Then there's lines alluding to kneeling in a black void with something on your back. Interesting how the demogorgon was crouched down in the void when El touched its back.

Speaking of kneeling, El approaches Billy in the void the exact same way she does the demogorgon. Billy, who is literally named William. I'm telling you the Will demogorgon mix up never ends. Billy makes himself disappear the same way Will does in the void scene. Oh and when El is looking for the source in Billy's mindscape, the song "William" plays. Very subtle (sarcasm). Will is the source.

Ok but how did the gate open?

Will died.

In s4, we find out that gates can be created by killing people. We also find out that music can open gates in the mind. Interesting how both of those things happen to Will around the UD Castle Byers scene. Will was singing to himself, then he got taken to the library where he died.

The big boy gates all meet at that library where there's a giant clock. Will was the fifth and final sacrifice. But wait! The original gate opened at the lab, not the library. Perhaps Will died twice... once at Castle Byers for a split second, then again at the library. The Castle Byers death opened mother gate, but the library death had delayed effects.

Or Will didn't die twice and it was just a joint effort between El and Will.

El and Will have opened a gate together before. Every time El contacted Will up to this point, it didn't open a gate. Only when Will reached out himself did a gate open. We're right back to Will being the one calling out. He had to try for it to work.

Will was on the brink of death in Castle Byers. Maybe he wanted a gate to open right then and there so he could be saved. But time had different plans. So when Will called out to El in the void, she answered, and they opened the gate together, not knowing that this actually causes his suffering rather than heal it.

In s2 when they figure out that Will spelled out "close gate," the phone rings. They rip the phone off the wall. Another missed call associated with the gate. But this time, it was Will telling them to close it. He had to tell them to ignore the call. They destroy the call, they close the gate.

It's also possible that Will's call for help was manipulated by Vecna. Maybe Vecna showed El the demogorgon to hide his true intentions. Will has something Vecna needs to open the gate. Not to make everything about Will's mind theory, but if the UD is Will's mindscape, it could explain why Will’s call for help resulted in a gate. Max's call for help through music opened a gate to her mind. So is it really that far off to say that Will's did the same?

Alright lets get a run down of the timeline:

El reaches out to Will in Castle Byers, Will tells El to hurry. This aligns with the first call El hears in the void.

A bit later, El revisits the call, assuming it was the demogorgon. In a startled scramble, she accidentally makes contact with Will who was on the brink of death about 20 feet away. Their joint energy opens the gate and destroys Castle Byers.

This energy attracts whatever took Will to the library. Will is kidnapped once more and dies. This joins the gates in 1986?

We know that the scene of Will getting taken from Castle Byers to the library is the opening scene of s5. Both s3 and s4 begin with a gate opening. Wouldn't it be fitting for the s5 opener to be the gate that started it all?

[therainscene]

Gonna be a bit of a buzzkill here, but: I think what annoys me about Ted's been casually assuming that Mike was dating Will this whole time theories is that they always tend to treat it as a fun outcome.

Like, I get it: Ted's the useless one-dimensional suburban dad who makes bland observations he thinks are insightful quips, and he hasn't had much of a character arc beyond getting dragged along for the ride his more three-dimensional wife is on -- so what is there for him to do, really, other than to delight us with one final, genuinely insightful joke that subverts our expectations but makes perfect sense in hindsight?

But I feel like this would essentially make him one of those "allies" whose egos are more important to them than actually being supportive, and so they make smug jokes about how accepting they are at the expense of their kids' fear of rejection:

"I hate my gay son! Oh, not because he's gay, he's just an asshole." 🤭 "Why are you telling me you're gay? I figured that out years ago. Stop crying and go help your mother with the dishes." 🙄 etc.

It wouldn't be out of character for Ted to do this. I can totally see him doing it! But it's out of character for the show to make light of queer struggles, so I'd expect it to be critical of Ted for doing this.

Often, parents like the ones described above really do mean well, but they just don't know what they're supposed to do other than try to keep treating their kid the same as if they were straight. Lots of parents struggle with that; I'd argue even Joyce does in S3:

Will's clearly experiencing a specifically queer difficulty here -- boys like him aren't allowed to fall in love and he's upset about having to watch straight people openly enjoy things he thinks he'll never have -- and that apparently sails over Joyce's head. She just smiles at her Silly Immature Boy Who Doesn't Get The Appeal Of Sex Yet and drops the topic.

[Edit: To be clear, Joyce knows he's gay and is explicitly showing support for gay love here. She just has a blind spot when it comes to the gay teen experience.]

It's a disappointing change in her approach from the first two seasons, in which she fought her ass off to understand and advocate for his needs, even when communication seemed nigh impossible.

But then, maybe S3 is about granting Will his S2 wish to not be coddled by his mom anymore.

The Jonwill heart-to-heart at the end of S4 is my favourite scene in the whole show, because it's a pitch-perfect demonstration of how to balance closeted queer kids' need for support against their need to handle things on their own terms, all without embarrassing them by showing your hand of Already Knowing.

Maybe you're thinking: didn't Karen do exactly this with Mike all the way back in S1?

[Literally hiding his future beard in his closet during this convo lol 10/10 queer-coding]

Well, no. The point I made in my previous Wheeler analysis still applies: Karen, as of S1, is too prone to trusting dangerous authorities over her own kids -- and so her words ring hollow. She means well, but deep down she's prioritizing her need to feel like a good mother over putting any real effort into figuring out what Mike needs: reassurance that he and his flock of outcast friends will be safe if he's open with her.

The key thing Jonathan gets right is to understand his brother well enough to directly address the underlying fear that's been preventing Will from opening up:

So if Ted's sole contribution to Mike's queer arc ends up being a reveal that he's always known and been too cool to blab to anyone, but also that he did nothing about it other than to smugly wait for Mike to come out...?

...I just think that would feel more tragic than funny.