#and by denying that queer people can be terrible and awful and problematic you deny them the full scope of humanity

[the-river-rix]

I love toxic queer characters I love queer characters who are allowed to do terrible things and be complex and fucked up I love queer characters who perpetuate abuse and trauma I love queer characters who contribute to cycles of abuse I love queer characters who are part of the systems that harm queer people I love queer characters who have internalized ideas that are harmful to or oppose queerness I love queer characters who make themselves a slave to their passion I love queer characters who force themselves into stereotypes and others ideas of being queer I love queer characters who are flawed and messy and problematic

I also love when queer characters have to reckon with their flaws I love when queer characters have to unlearn their own prejudice and hate to truly be liberated I love when queer characters are punished for their bad choices I love when queer characters work to change and make amends I love when queer characters break cycles of abuse I love when queer characters grow and learn I love when queer characters get to be complex and human and get to grow and heal and also cause harm because people and their life experiences aren’t perfect and linear and unproblematic and life is too complicated and all encompassing to make simple and clear and inherently good and moral

I love when queer characters aren’t denied the true multifaceted and all-encompassing and real reality of life

[anonil88]

Generation ep 7 live blog

Thoughts on last episode; happy little gays but Chester is irritating me with his teacher situation. Bus broke down and that sucks, but hey detours sometimes can be nice.

Let's get going on this episode:

This is sweet and heart warming, she wants this baby to have a great life even though she cannot provide for them.

Ooo they are sharing a room 👀 they are gonna make friendship bracelets right? To be honest I hope they just talk maybe a little kiss or two because they haven't really, that we've seen, talked about if they are going to do more than just flirt.

This soundtrack again is sick. I love it.

That stain does not look like Jesus.

I hate that these two are always on a roof and close to the ledge. It makes me highly concerned everytime and I'm just dreading and waiting for one of them to slip. I know that would end up a new plot device because of certain producers involved but I really hope they stay safe. I also hate Chester making moves on this teacher. It's weird, it was weird when I saw it happen in highschool as a student and I still find that shit absolutely stomach churning.

I do love having a black queer guy for a lead character, I really do even when Chester is being a mess. Which I'm just saying he and Jules would make great acquaintances.

Maybe just maybe his isn't going to be a terrible class trip even though they never made it to San Francisco.

They look like that because she's pregnant.

Wtf is wrong with this girl, scamming make a wish? ew they are licking the toilet ew ew ew

That's a Heavn by Marc Jacobs shirt.

He's gonna kiss both his crushes ummmm what, bro is he gonna be okay or is he gonna pass out. I personally would be sweating and chicken out.

A toilet seat is way way worse than a kiss. Why do all these kids reek of low key biphobia, calling this kiss gross and Nathan gross. I'm raising my brow a lot at every interaction most of these characters have with him 🤨.

Shes smoking omg and she doesn't know she's pregnant.

This girl talk convo is quite realistic in terms of giggly interjections you grow into dropped jaws and wide eyes when you get older haha.

The straight guy is just a good brother.

And we go to a shitty sister, why the fuck would you do that to your friend and brother. He didn't even confirm or deny. He is also human and allowed to have a crush, but again I'm more mature now than I was at 15 so maybe that's a belief that comes with time. The idea that you can't control your partners emotions, especially one that you claim not to care about and that you are yourself playing.

These kids/girls are weird I'm sorry they jumped straight into the he's playing me and he's not bi idea and I don't like that.

Oh shit the gym teacher is flirting with the desk clerk and has a whole wife wtf. O.O

Oh they are going to.....what the heck girl? She doesn't just wanna hook up she likes you, but this is why you communicate things before you have sex. She just slut shamed in the midst of her being vulnerable with her.

Shygirl !!!!

Imma guess she's gonna go fuck this other girl as a rebound. Yea, sigh, how messy.

They are showing a whole lot of this steamy scene. Maybe my suggestion was wrong for those who want a less wild more toned down alternative to Euphoria. Sorry.

Aw Chester sweetheart they hurt his feelings.

Here's this teacher guidance counselor 🙄

Oh you triggered him oh no that makes sense now why he was so concerned about his well being.

Oh this should go south really really quickly. Please go south please.

Oh thank God Sam shut this all the way down quickly. We have avoided the teacher crush to relationship trope. No Chester, you betrayed his privacy and catfished him into talking to a minor. Now he has to worry about loosing his job etc. because you have an inflated crush and you are a minor.

Yea he should be afraid because you are crossing extreme boundaries and have created a false relationship for him and you.

Scream it out kid but you needed that rejection.

Thoughts on this episode: It was good you can see there is more confidence in the writing in this episode. I am sensing a few concerns I have but I'm gonna see how this mid season finale is and then talk about that in my mid-season round up. One of my larger issues is that i don't like this subtle implication thats being sewed into this narrative. There is this message that all queer people do is lie, cheat, and betray one another etc. While that does happen sometimes its not the only thing that does occur. Even though I appreciate not treating queer characters as "smol beans" and being problematic at times i don't appreciate that all of our queer characters are in that same boat. All of these scenarios do have some realism though and GSA has some of the most drama you can find. But it feels a bit like look all these lgbtq ppl are messy and cheat even the older teacher.

[demoisverysexy]

An Open Letter to the Person who Blocked Me for Being Mormon

For context:

If you’re reading this, I hope it finds you well.

This letter is mostly for me, so I can get my feelings out. I’ve already talked about this with a few of my friends, and I’m feeling better than I was than when you blocked me. I’m still upset. Mostly because of general trends I see on tumblr of hatred for Mormons. A lot of it comes from ignorance and misunderstanding. Some of it comes from a place of genuine hurt that can’t go unaddressed. I don’t want to be dismissive of those who have faced trauma at the hands of my church. I am one of those people, and I know how deeply pain associated with my church can be. After our interaction, I felt that talking about it would help me process this.

Before I go on, I must be clear that this is not an attempt to get you to unblock me. As nice as it would be to be able to see your blog again – you’re very witty, and I enjoy your content! – I can live without it. This is more a response to the trend on tumblr specifically of hatred against Mormons, and assuming that they’re all bad people who are complicit in every single bad thing that the church does. You just happened to force me to be a little introspective about my church and my relation to it. Thank you for that.

First, however, I would like to clear up some misconceptions:

Your initial joke that prompted me to tell you I was a Mormon was a joke about Mormons and polygamy. The largest two organizations that can be classified as “Mormon,” The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints and the Community of Christ (which incidentally allows for gay marriage and has female clergy, though I am of the LDS sect), both disavow polygamy. There are other, smaller offshoot Mormon groups who do still practice this, which is where horror stories of polygamists marrying teenagers arise. These people are also Mormons, though I wish they weren’t, in the same way that problematic Christian groups are Christian, though many Christians wish they weren’t.

I do recognize that mainstream Mormonism has been labeled as a cult by many people, though the reasons people provide generally don’t hold up. Often the proof that people provide of my church’s cult-like nature is to take note of corruption that can be found in almost every church. These issues – such as racism, homophobia, and misogyny, to name a few – while real and important to address do not a cult make. Sometimes the proof is to point towards practices that are demonized in my church, but are practiced in other religions with no comment, or even celebration. Other times people will point to their own experiences with toxic church congregations, and while those issues are very real, they are by no means universal. My experience growing up Mormon was a lucky one in many ways. I personally don’t think that most people who study my church from an academic vantage point would call it a cult. I would consult them on this matter. After all, someone in a cult is rather hard-pressed to be able to tell whether they are in one or not.

Another point often levied against Mormonism is how it leaves its queer members with religious trauma due to its homophobic teachings. I understand this well. I have experienced deep religious trauma associated with my political stances in favor of LGBTQ+ rights (though that wasn’t the whole story). I won’t go into detail about this right now, but suffice it to say, I had a very traumatic time on my mission that led me to a very dark place, and ended with me contemplating choices I would never be able to take back. I’m fine now of course, but I carry those memories with me.

So why would I stay despite all this? Is it because I’m brainwashed? You would have to ask a psychologist about that, but I would say probably not. I knew, and know now, that the ways I was being treated were unfair and wrong. I don’t have time to go point by point to address every grievance I or anyone else has with my church and explain my position on it, as much as I would like to clear the air once and for all on this topic so there is no misunderstanding. Here’s the reasoning that has kept me here so far:

I think that every person of faith must, at some point, deal with the problematic aspects of their church’s history and doctrine. This comes with the territory. Whether it be disturbing stories in scripture, imperialist tendencies, doctrines that chafe against us, or problematic leaders, no person of faith is exempt from wrestling with the history that accompanies their faith. I have studied my church’s history in depth. Many of the horror stories I heard were provably false. Many were true. Where does that leave me?

I believe that God is bigger and better than us. We make terrible, awful mistakes all the time. But I don’t think that makes God less willing to work with us. If anything, I think it means he wants to help us more. He wants to help us move past our histories and become better. My church has a long way to go in this regard. For too long we have been silent when it mattered, and people have been wounded by our silence. Or even the words we have said out loud! If you look at my Mormonism tag on my blog, you will see some examples of what I am talking about. I have been wounded by the things my church has said and not said. It hurts awfully, and I ache for those who have been wounded more deeply than I.

But at the same time, I cannot deny the healing my faith has brought me. Whatever problems my church has – and it has many, deep and pressing issues – it is because of my faith that I am the person I am today. I can draw a straight line from my religion to the positions I hold today. Because I am a Mormon, I became a Marxist. Because I am a Mormon, I became nonbinary. Because I am a Mormon, I became a leftist. I cannot ignore that my religion, flawed as it may be, has led me to where I stand now. I am at the intersection of the hurt and healing the church offers. It is a difficult line to walk. But I hope that in walking it, I can bring healing and love to those who hurt in the ways I do. To let them know that they are not alone, and that they have a friend who can help them wherever they choose to go.

Yes I am queer. Yes I am a Mormon. I am here because I am trying to fix things. If at some point in the future I realize that I cannot change things, perhaps I will leave. I hope it does not come to that. And things are changing. They have changed before, and they can change now. I am confident that my God is willing to lead my church where it needs to go. I hope I can help speed things along. We shall see.

But spreading unequivocal hatred and disdain for Mormons does not help those of us who are Mormon who are trying to fix things. Yes, those who have left Mormonism due to trauma need a safe place to be away from that, and acknowledging the church’s many faults can be helpful to those people. I myself have criticized my church quite vocally. But refusing to listen to the stories of those of us who choose to stay, telling others that we are evil or stupid or what have you, is also quite traumatic to us. We are people too, with thoughts and feelings. It is easy to dismiss us out of hand if you assume we aren’t.

I try to be open about my religion and political stances on my tumblr. See for yourself: It’s a mix of Mormonism, LGBTQ+ activism, Marxism, and pretty much every other leftist political position you can find. Along with all the furry stuff, of course. But despite all this, I am still terrified every time someone follows me to tell them I am Mormon. More than I am to tell them that I’m queer. Tumblr is not representative of how things work in the “real world,” of course, but I have received hatred for being a Mormon there as well. And it’s mostly other Christians. So on the one hand I’m hated by LGBTQ+ folks, on the other hand I’m hated by my church for being queer, and on the third hand (as apparently I have three hands), I am hated by other Christians. I do not face hatred to the same degree from other Christians. I saw it most on my mission. But still, it exists.

(Incidentally, Evangelicals, who you seem to have problems with, and perhaps rightly so, though I have not done a study of the matter myself, largely despise Mormons, from what I have heard. Something to consider.)

I want allies. I want help. I want understanding. If I am to push back against bigotry in my church, I need your help. I need everyone’s help. Fighting bigotry wherever we see it is a worthy pursuit, I think. And if we can succeed, we can make the world a better, safer happier place. I want to fight off the ghosts that haunt my church. You don’t have to fight them with me, but I would appreciate it if I could have your support. It would make my job much easier.

We aren’t enemies. At least, I don’t think you’re my enemy. We both have been hurt by homophobia and bigotry. We live in a capitalist hellscape where police brutality and racism are on the rise. Fascism is looming over the political backdrop, along with the ongoing threat of ecological disaster. I think we would be better off helping each other than going after each other. I ask that you please listen to us when we say you are hurting us. The Mormons you blocked knowingly followed you, an openly queer person who calls out racism and bigotry and pedophilia. Yet you assume we are in favor of those things. Someone can at once be part of an institution while recognizing it’s flaws. (Aren’t we both Americans? Why not move if we hate it so much?) And perhaps we have used the “No true Scotsman” fallacy to justify why we stay. I don’t believe I have. I don’t feel I need to.

I hope that you consider what I’ve said here. I hope we can work together. And I hope that no matter what, you find peace wherever you end up.

Yours truly,

Demo Argenti

[itsybitsylemonsqueezy]

Robin Lord Taylor and Adventures in Internalized Homophobia

Alrighty, SO... RLT has said some controversial things in his latest Gotham interview. Some things that make me REALLY sad, but are honestly not surprising with his track record thus far. He’s always had a... complicated relationship with Oswald in interviews, which is REALLY sad, because he clearly loves Oswald, but he won’t let himself admit that on camera out of character for a lot of reasons, the biggest of which, I would argue, is internalized homophobia. But I’m getting ahead of myself.

If you haven’t seen the interview, I invite you to watch it HERE and draw your own conclusions! I know there’s been a lot of really negative reactions to it, so I do caution you all about that, as Robin pretty much gaslights Oswald which is... ridiculous and harmful on so many levels. I personally think he spoke without thinking, but that does little to mitigate any emotional reaction you might have.

Anyway, this post here is to try to unpack what he said. I will say, upfront, I am not a survivor of abuse so I did not come to this with that lens. So what I say is not from personal experience, only my reading of what Robin said and my best guesses at why. I hope that I provide some clarity to people who were left hurt or confused by what he said, but I do call it guesses. I’m not Robin, I can’t tell you what he was really thinking. So, knowing all of that, we proceed...

I was not seeing a LOT of coherent unity here, which makes me question a lot of things. Robin clearly has intense sympathy for Oswald, which is UNDERSTANDABLE, actors normally do love their own characters, that's a thing. And he doesn't unpack that, neither does he take time pointing out Oswald, you know, is a borderline-sadistic murderer with manic tendencies, doesn't unpack any of that. He describes Oswald as 'fractured', which is fairly accurate, but that doesn't make him unlovable or incapable of love, which is the whole problem.

He just flat out said that Oswald's confused about what he feels for Ed and... honestly that's not even true! Like, however Robin feels, THAT'S NOT WHAT THE SCRIPT SAID. Both Oswald's words and actions in relation to Ed read love, so... sorry, Robin, sorry, but you're just flat out wrong on this.

I could see that he thinks Oswald has jumped into a relationship with Ed too quickly, that he bounces erratically from grief to love, but... like, first of all, that's just Oswald 100% of the time, that's just him, so this erratic move is not in any way out of character or even unhealthy, given the grand scope of his character. And, number two, I can't really buy that, since it's almost a complete season for Oswald to admit his feelings. Yes, his crush on Ed starts brewing after the terrible loss of his mother. But again, Oswald doesn't express or act on these feelings until WELL after.

Robin could be talking about how Ed has not expressed any kind of consent to this relationship, but he doesn't say that in so many words, and that's also kinda getting the cart before the horse. Like... Oswald is allowed to have emotions and admit those emotions, how ever Ed reacts to them. Oswald's emotions are valid, even in love, especially in love.

And, you know, that's the whole problem, Robin invalidates love. Which is REALLY weird considering he hasn't invalidated any of Oswald's other emotions, many of which are a LOT less healthy than love. He couches it in terms that he thinks Oswald specifically is not capable of love right now, in this relativistic moment, but even taking it that way, it isn't true, it just isn't true. In the script, on the show, Oswald is shown to perform love, and I don't mean just with Ed.

Oswald is, except in his episodes of manic violence, actually a very respectful, rational, and even generous person. Like... legit. So you're just plain wrong if you think Oswald in some way can't love because he's too hurt or whatever. And, again, I definitely believe that Oswald IS hurt, he's been through trauma, but that doesn't make you less human, less capable of love.

And, again, that's confusing because at the top of the show Robin calls him VERY human, and then seems to walk that back. And I can't tell if that's internalized homophobia, if he's afraid that Oswald is a 'bad' queer representative, so he doesn't want Oswald seen that way.

Or if he's afraid of Ed and Oswald's relationship being construed as abusive, which it isn't, unless you're using VERY stark and unyielding measures. Because, like, yes, Oswald DID murder Ed's girlfriend out of jealousy. Traditionally, that's an abusive, even stalker-ish behavior. BUT, that's using real world values, this is a comic book show. Real world values are suspended; we romanticize, we exaggerate. And secondly, and more importantly narratively speaking, Oswald's going to get to pay his fucking due for it, he's NOT going to get away with it, not in terms of his relationship with Ed, or in terms of the law, possibly. He'll be held accountable, at the very least by Ed, which is all we really care about, narratively speaking. Heck, Oswald will even hold himself accountable because he will feel guilt, not over her death, but because he made Ed upset. And I need to emphasis that ‘guilt’ and ‘consequence’ are features not found in abuse.

Like, this is one of the differences between 50 Shades and Hannibal. Allow me to explain: in 50 Shades, Christian Grey is not held accountable for his MYRIAD abuses. THAT is trash, THAT is reinforcing abuse, it's awful and terrible and no one should find it sexy. In Hannibal, HANNIBAL IS HELD FUCKING ACCOUNTABLE. No one treats Hannibal as a hero or a safe individual NOT EVEN for a second because, you know, he's a living monster. He gets to face direct consequences for his actions.That doesn't make what he does right, not at all, but it does mean that there is a social and narrative weight to what he does, it matters. It means that even though we're showing these terrible things, we are acknowledging that they are terrible.

And like... that's how fucking story-telling works, you can't HAVE people who never do anything wrong ever, that's not a story. People make mistakes, people are bad, people do messed up things, so give them consequence, unpack that shit.

So, if Robin was implying Oswald was abusive, even unintentionally, he's wrong, because Oswald faces consequence and experiences guilt. He is not a monster, neither is he AT ALL abusive, like... I cannot at all stand by that.

Anyway... yeah, I just find his comments really puzzling, they make no sense. It is possible, it's really possible, that Robin fears or sees something in Oswald's attachment to Ed that he believes is suspect, I just can't for the life of me figure out what it is. Oswald lets him fucking go, man, Oswald, at every turn has treated Ed with respect to his autonomy. Even when ED doesn't. And that’s a really good example, maybe even the BEST example, of what Oswald feeling being love and not abusive possession because he lets Ed go. An abuser wouldn’t, an abuser would make Ed stay, they’d refuse and deny Ed’s decision. No, Oswald lets him go, without even a fight! You look me in the eye and tell me that’s not love.

So what does this all amount to? I think Robin seems very wary of loving Oswald too much, which is a real shame. There's a lot to love about Oswald and it's his retractions that are the most damaging and worrying. You could do a LOT with supporting Oswald, it's very easy to say 'I love him, he fucked up here, here, and here, but I love him anyway and in these other ways he's a good person!' I mean... it's not that hard to do.

BUT, you have to have this self-assurance that it doesn't reflect badly on YOU to say that. I think it may not even be about Oswald, I think Robin might be scared of being perceived as 'the wrong kind of gay’ or being too opinionated or too open or those things. That would make a loooooot of sense to me, that he takes out self-doubt and fear of social reprisals on poor Oswald. And that's legit! Like, totally valid that he reacts that way, it's just such a shame that he doesn't feel more confident or safe to say what he really feels.

So this points strongly to internalized homophobia and, guys, especially with the way Robin handles this, his reactions to being questioned on his own character are legit and valid, problematic as they are. Wherever he is in his life, this is how he feels now and he’s doing the best he can. I just don’t want to make this a criticism of Robin or an invitation to gang up on him because DUDE NO. Dude, he... he hasn’t unpacked this, there’s stuff going on here that Robin isn’t comfortable with or not yet equipped to talk about on air which is VALID and we can’t force him into it. It’s a terrible, terrible shame that this comes at the cost of destroying Oswald and injuring quite a few fans in the process, but I guarantee that wasn’t his intention and he wasn’t even aware he was doing it. He did not think at all about what he just said because it was a homophobic reaction. And internalized homophobia would explain why he's blind to the inconsistency in his own statements, how he can sympathize with Oswald so much but then is so desperate to paint Oswald as inhuman in this one very specific way.

For me, personally, it just feels really dishonest. :/ the whole thing, it feels disingenuous to do this to Oswald, to say that he doesn't feel love, that's... so wrong, so completely, flat out wrong. It's a betrayal, it's a betrayal to Robin’s own portrayal of him. I mean... what the hell do you mean bro? I really wish he had it in him to say 'Look, Oswald's a terrible person, but he's in love with Ed' because THE TWO ARE NOT MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE. That is a legit real life rule! Even murderers can and do love! It's a thing! Even the real life ones!

And, I hate to keep comparing, but... in a SIGNIFICANTLY more problematic show, Hannibal, neither the writers nor the actors, have ever minced words saying 'Hannibal is in love with Will.' Literally the ENTIRE CAST has said it, it was said on the show, and, to be quite honest, there's a LOT more room to argue that THAT SHIT is abuse. Much more than Nygmobblepot could EVER hope to be. And yet, we said love, we said a MONSTER, LITERAL MONSTER HANNIBAL LECTER is capable of love. And that is controversial to say! Because, again, actual monster.

Oswald is not a monster, it is NOT actually controversial to say he can love. It's honestly more controversial now that Robin’s denying it, you're hurting us man, you're hurting us. Robin's making this harder than it needs to be. Because no one is prompting him to walk back Oswald or his feelings about Oswald. He’s doing it from his own compulsion, which SERIOUSLY points towards internalized homophobia. Which is DESPERATELY sad, but we need to admit that that’s something anyone can have, including out gay men.

This whole thing makes me very, very sad, but I truly believe Robin didn’t mean it and doesn’t even recognize his own inconsistencies because he was speaking from paranoia fueled by homophobia. I can’t believe he means Oswald isn’t capable of love, and yet continues to play Oswald the way he plays him, that’s just... impossible, no actor can believe their character is that monstrous and deliver that genuine a performance. I don’t think he believes that Oswald is ‘too broken to love’ and I don’t think Robin meant that broken people can’t love. He was twisting himself out of having to admit that a gay and morally questionable man was in love with another man. And, to be fair, that’s a lot of controversy to hold at once and if you’re in any way afraid of social consequences, which Robin has EVERY RIGHT to be afraid of, then you might avoid taking on that responsibility. And that is fair and we have to respect him and his decisions on that. It, unfortunately, has a lot of repercussions Robin did not foresee, but it would not be fair of us either to invalidate Robin’s emotions or expect more of him than he can provide. He has to unpack his feelings about society and queerness in his own time, we can’t force that on him. 

Anyway, to sum up: Robin said some inaccurate and inconsistent things about Oswald that were VERY probably motivated out of internalized homophobia. I think that’s sad, it’s sad for me that he feels this scared, although I can totally understand it, and it’s sad for me that he’s inadvertently hamstrung a powerful, POSITIVE I would say, character by making us all feel weird about Oswald’s sexuality and romantic attachments, when in reality that was a non-issue. It was NOT a non-issue for Robin, which is fair. But it’s unfortunate that now we have a public issue about it when the show was not making one, the show has deliberately steered away from homophobia as the main problem in the Nygmobblepot relationship and now, unfortunately, homophobia is something we have to deal with because representing a character who is both gay and a bad person is REALLY hard and it’s really hard not to vilify his sexuality during that. I will say that as far as I can tell the show has written Oswald’s sexuality as wholly separate and unrelated to Oswald’s morally grey decisions, but... Robin’s conflated them and he’s probably not the only one. Gay and evil are often read together in the same breath, unpacking that is hard, undoing that is hard and it’s small steps. Robin may have just been scared of the weight this put on him, ESPECIALLY as an out gay man. Besides which, Robin has finally broken down to say that Oswald is at least LIKABLE, he’s comfortable with the controversy of liking someone as “evil” as Oswald, so he might have buckled down twice as hard on the queerness in response to that.

Just... Oswald is capable of love, that is written into the show, it’s already done, it’s already there. So nothing Robin says about it now can change that. And I think the writers will continue that, both in terms of the ship and Oswald’s continued characterization. If Robin had any idea of the impact of his words, I don’t think he’d have phrased it this way and if he thought this would affect his portrayal of Oswald he CERTAINLY wouldn’t. He loves Oswald, but he’s threatened by a cruel and misunderstanding world that so often has used gayness alone to deny a character, not to say anything of ACTUAL PEOPLE, their basic humanity. He reacted out of fear. He didn’t mean it. I know that doesn’t change anything, but I hope it helps some people understand and maybe heal.