#and as much as vol 3 will be the last time we see gamora i WILL fix things in my future fics

[lady-murderess]

I hate being in fandoms where both of my ships aren't together anymore

it hurts, my guy

[squids-comics]

With all this hype for Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 3, I have been desperately hoping that we get to see one of my favourite guardians, and one who I feel is criminally underrated, Bug!!

(Spoilers for Annihilation and Annihilation: Conquest ahead)

To fully explain why bug is so underrated, we have to go back to the Annihilation event. Annihilation was a huge crossover event from 2006 that brought all of Marvel's cosmic superheroes together to fight a common foe, Annihilus. This helped pull the cosmic side of Marvel back into popularity and gave a fanbase to characters who were previously obscure. One of these obscure characters was Peter Quill AKA Star Lord. While not playing a huge role, Star Lord was an entertaining side character who seemed to gain the largest popularity boost from the event.

This takes us into Annihilation: Conquest! Things are kicked off when Star Lord tries to aid the Kree empire in rebuilding after the war. He accidently gets them enslaved by robots. The Kree respond by drafting him into their military and forcing him to go on suicide missions for them. But he's not alone! Star Lord is joined by a cast of characters so obscure, only the most intense Marvel fans would know who they are. Joining Star Lord was Gabriel Vargas AKA Captain Universe, Sharra Neramani AKA Deathcry, Mantis, Rocket Raccoon, Groot, and our favourite two toed guardian, Bug! This series reads almost like a blueprint for the Guardians of the Galaxy and is a good read, especially if you're a Guardians fan!! The team goes on missions, people die, and eventually the day is saved!

This brings us to the formation of the modern day Guardians of the Galaxy. Star Lord feels guilty for accidentally starting a second huge space disaster only a few years after the first, so he assembles a team to prevent any more from happening. He does this by grabbing all the heavy hitters from the Annihilation: Conquest event: Drax the Destroyer, Gamora, Adam Warlock, and Phyla-Vell. He also recruits every surviving member of his team except Bug, this being: Rocket Raccoon, Groot, and Mantis. The team gets a base in Knowhere, where they meet and recruit chief of security Cosmo! Having Bug be the only surviving member of Star Lord's free trial Guardians still standing who doesn't get recruited is pretty awful for the guy, but he does get his moment to shine! When the team encounters drama and half the members quit, Rocket reforms the team, recruiting Bug and Major Victory!! On the first mission of the new team, Bug cracks jokes about how he wasn't good enough to make the original cut of the roster.

From left to right we have: Phyla-Vell (now going by Martyr), Jack Flag (one of Captain America's sidekicks from the 90's), Star Lord, Gamora, and Bug!!

Bug stayed a loyal and dedicated member of the team until the end of the first Guardians comic run, which led to the team being rebooted to match the movies closer, with the only members being Star Lord, Gamora, Drax, Rocket, Groot and Iron Man (for some reason). As far as I have read, that is the last time Bug has been featured on the team.

Not only was Bug a cool looking, fun character on the team, he had been there pretty much since the start. I would really love to see him in the MCU one day, but Marvel has had issues with the licensing of the character (he's owned by Hasbro), so we might not get to see him anytime soon. I would really love to see him make a return in the comics though!!

[themculibrary]

Rocket Raccoon Masterlist

Dialling Tones (ao3) - Run_Ravager_Run T, 11k

Summary: Gamora is making calls in the middle of the night, Rocket is building dangerous contraptions at the breakfast table, Drax is a terrible cook, and Peter suspects his newfound family is rupturing at the seams.

Dog Days Are Over (ao3) - agoldengalaxy G, 3k

Summary: {Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 3 Spoiler alert!}

“It’s weird, dontcha think?” Rocket asked softly. “Can’t remember the last time it felt so good around here.”

“Yes.” Nebula paused, then looked down at her lap. “I hope…you are feeling it, too.”

Family (ao3) - Groot (grootiez) T, 10k

Summary: When Rocket tries to enroll Groot into a prestigious preschool, he discovers the people in charge there don’t have Groot’s best interests in mind. When they forcibly remove Groot from the only family that he’s ever known, Rocket will stop at nothing in order to get him back.

But time is of the essence: If Rocket fails to prove that Groot should be reunited with his family and that Rocket should be given full parental rights and allowed to formally adopt Groot as his son, they might never see Groot ever again.

I'll Be There For You (ao3) - Izzyaro (Isilarma) T, 2k

Summary: If Rocket has faith in anything, it's that Groot will never let him down.

I'm With Stupid (ao3) - jellybeanforest gamora/peter T, 17k

Summary: On a backwoods planet, married couples can’t be legally compelled to testify against each other, or at least that’s the working theory. Separated from the others, Peter and Rocket fake a marriage to get out of a sticky situation.

For the Guardians Family Holiday Challenge Day 3 – Odd Couple.

Mine is Just a Slower Sacrifice (ao3) - grayintogreen G, 2k

Summary: And Rocket?

Rocket picks up the pieces. For the second time, because this is what he does now.

Prison Break #24 (ao3) - Zinnith T, 2k

Summary: Rocket has twenty three successful prison breaks under his belt. This should be easy. Until it's not.

Ride on a Rocket... Raccoon (ao3) - IncognitoPichu peter/rocket E, 14k

Summary: If there's one thing that raccoons are known for, it's... um...

Rocket Raccoon is not a pet (ao3) - Grocketeer peter/rocket N/R, 2k

Summary: Peter finds out that Rocket likes to be pet, but hates feeling like a pet. Peter decides to pet him.

Rocket the Up-Cycling Raccoon (ao3) - SnappleApple11 T, 1k

Summary: Rocket keeps himself busy by inventing things. The materials for these inventions have to come from somewhere though, much to his shipmate’s frustration.

“We’re not exactly floating in units Gamora,” Peter said. “Until our next job, we’re broke. Rocket was just using what we have available on the Milano-”

“Like how he used the life support system to build that bomb?”

So No-one Told You Life (Was Gonna Be This Way) (ao3) - goingsparebutwithprecision G, 12k

Summary: Rocket and Groot get a flat on Terra. Groot watches Friends, Rocket makes friends, and the thing with the pterodactyls was not his fault.

Team Rocket Raccoon (ao3) - AthenaStarsnow N/R, 4k

Summary: Rocket Raccoon suddenly finds himself in the world of Pokémon!

The Body Keeps the Score (ao3) - EmiliaGryphon T, 61k

Summary: "You said it yourself bitch, we're the Guardians of the Galaxy." Gamora is finally a part of something. But the past always follows you, eats at you and she must come to grips with her deeds as she tries to build a future. Meanwhile Rocket has never cared much for anyone or anything. Together the two of them discover they are more alike than different and try to heal themselves by befriending the other.

The Shrapnel in Your Heart (ao3) - EmiliaGryphon, TooManyBattles (Skarabrae_stone) steve/bucky G, 12k

Summary: “Buck?” Steve looked at him in concern. “You okay?” Bucky turned to face him, the familiar what-has-Steve-roped-me-into-now feeling washing over him. Robots and cryo and aliens and now a damned space-raccoon. You have got to be kidding me, Stevie. “Put me back,” he demanded. “I’m done, this is it, I wanna go back in cryo.” OR: Rocket and Bucky go on a mission together. It turns out they have a lot more in common than they realized.

You Can't Carry It With You (If You Want to Survive) (ao3) - FoundInTheStars T, 2k

Summary: After everything, Rocket and Peter learn to let go.

You're still young, that's your fault. (ao3) - DigitalMeowMix T, 3k

Summary: Trying to raise your best friend after he's turned into a child is hard work. This is definitely not what Rocket signed up for. He just wants his damn partner back.

Scenes from an unconventional parenthood

[oldfangirl81]

My top 10 (recent) movies!

Thanks for the tag @oldefashioned

I had to try to remember what I've seen in the last few months. Because I haven't been using Letterbxd as much as planned. So recent is probably something I watched for the first time in last 18mos.

So here are 10 but not any particular order.

Merry Little Batman (2023)

I wasn't sure about the animation at first but it ended up working well for me. And it was a very cute Damian Wayne story.

Scooby Doo and Krypto Too! (2023)

Look the glasses joke made me laugh so hard and then to bring it back at the end too. Just a fun one with lots of cute things for DC fans.

Dungeons and Dragons Honor Among Thieves (2023)

I wish we were going to get so many more of these. It was just fun. And I've only played D&D a couple of times.

Blue Beetle (2023)

I actually liked it a lot more than I expected. And I'm sad we won't see that exact version in the future. But I still would say give it a watch. It is an origin story but still some fresh moments.

Venom: Let There Be Carnage (2021)

Yeah, I actually just watched it for the first time a few months ago. Not sure why it took me so long with how much I loved the first one. And I loved this one too. Three love stories with a side of body horror.

Ghost Squad (2018/2022)

Okay this was one I watched in Oct for my horror marathon. It is J-Horror with subtitles. And it is so bizarre and funny. It is revenge supernatural horror with women main characters.

The Last Voyage of the Demeter (2023)

One of the very few movies I've seen in a theater in the last couple years. I saw it in a very cold empty theater so that did add to the overall experience. But still I thought for once Dracula was a very real threat.

Lisa Frankenstein (2024)

This was my type of weird. I love horror comedy. I loved the twisted ending.

Ghosted (2023)

Look I am a sucker for a romcom that involves hitmen. I was always going to enjoy it. And cameos just made it all that much better.

Guardians of the Galaxy Vol 3 (2023)

Yeah, I'm a sap. I cried several times in the theater. It was also a rare one I saw in the theaters. My heart broke so many times. I absolutely loved Gamora's story after I had been so worried. I am Groot.

No pressure tagging @sugdenlovesdingle @nancys-braids @phonoirlex @mayorjack @madambeetroot

[starmora]

I have no idea why it's only sinking in now but it's finally hitting me that marvel killed off Gamora for nothing more than Thanos looking sad for a few moments to garner sympathy for himself. Then they didn't bother to have Nebula or Drax or anyone else in her family be the one to kill him. The more I think about it the more deranged I realize it is. They literally said an abused woman's soul meant nothing compared to her abuser having a pathetic sob story about how ending her life cost him everything. Seriously wtf? I'm also realizing she never got any kind of funeral or flowers tossed down at vormir. Nothing. I have no idea how life has really been for 2014 Gamora. I don't know if she had a nervous breakdown at first being in the future. If she's had a hard time coping with some people knowing her as a hero while she never got to experience that. I don't even know how often she sees Nebula. I feel like I know nothing and the story is over. How did we end up with Gamora having less closure to her arc than her abuser.

Yup. That’s really the worst part of it all, isn’t it? Thanos just got to do that to her and then nothing else was done or said to even try and make sense of it or honor her. I mean, not just in canon either, but in real life, too. People shat on Peter for his reaction to hearing about her death for fucking years. Still do. It’s always ‘Peter ruined everything’ and never any talk about exactly why he even had that reaction. And that’s just one example of how little people seem to care. Not once have I seen anyone outside of our little group of Gamora fans actually talk about what this actually did to Gamora in the last five years. And idk it just sucks to see that sort of continue with the canon. Like no one wants to talk about how she was murdered. No one wants to discuss the fact that she did actually die, she was murdered by her abuser, and this isn’t some soap opera where the leading lady gets into an accident and loses her memory. Like, this really happened and it just sucks that no one wants to acknowledge it. Idk if it’s just too messy or confusing or if there’s some deeper meaning to why it’s ignored both in vol 3 and with pretty much everyone who’s been watching these movies for the last five years, but you have to wonder.

I’m happy some form of Gamora is alive and happy and healthy, living in a world where Thanos can’t hurt her again. I just wish she’d been given a little more of ANYTHING to help flesh out her story a little before she was just, you know, done with since we’re probably not seeing her again. I mean, overall, I really am happy with this ending and I don’t feel like I NEED any more canon content with Gamora since this left her in a good place, but I just think more room could have been made for both her and for 2018 Gamora to be explored more in the rest of the movie

[caatws]

I can't speak for the merchandising but when it comes to gotg rides Mission Breakout is set just after vol 2 so there would be no need to change anything about it because of vol 3. Not that I think they would change the ride anyway. The newer ride is Cosmic Rewind and it's supposed to be taking place during or around vol 1. Gamora is of course included. This ride came out last year and I don't know when or how it was decided but I have been wondering if the whole rewind to vol 1 theme was picked so Gamora could be included.

I have mostly loved Gunn's work when it comes to gotg. I think he's typically thoughtful and nuanced when dealing with the abuse and trauma plots. However I don't think he had the ability to deal with Thanos killing Gamora. Gamora needed way more attention and her death should have been one of the most serious issues gotg ever had. I don't know what the perfect solution would have been but part of me wishes they would have given Gamora a solo movie or show handled by someone more willing to do the work needed to give Gamora's murder closure and Gamora an arc that was about finding a way to give back to her rather than take away. The mcu wanting to deal with hard and complicated issues is great. Being unprepared to see them through to the end or research what those situations are really like, isn't so great and honestly can send out a bad message. Vol 3 treats everything Thanos did with nonchalance. Gunn also uses the time and space since Endgame mostly in a negative way for Gamora. Vol 3 has Rocket and Nebula as much better friends and the entire basis for this is Endgame. At the same time it only lightly touches on Gamora and Nebula's relationship even though Endgame showed that was the most important thing for both of them and the entire catalyst for Gamora having confidence that her arrival to the future might be okay and they could win against Thanos. He ignores that 5 years working and being friends with other people could pose an issue for Rocket and Nebula when the guardians came back from the snap. Especially Nebula who hadn't been on the team before. It's like none of that time mattered at all. Then with Gamora he treats her time after Endgame as if it's created a permanent wall where she can't connect with these characters or be part of the guardians. And now here we are with Gamora being excluded and her value as a character being questioned which is the exact opposite of what you should want for a film about abuse survivors.

you're so right on all fronts here! i think gunn is extremely talented and everything else has been generally handled well and beautifully; for me personally it mostly only starts to all unravel when i consider the gamora situation, but looking past that, i think most of the characters got pretty solid arcs/moments/etc across the 3 films, especially considering the chaotic context of trying to fit into the greater mcu.

i'm glad rocket got the attention and care he did in this film, esp knowing how much it meant to gunn, but like i mentioned yesterday, i think it would've made more sense to put this particular story between vol 2 and iw, since the effects of iw/eg are hardly even explored in the film beyond peter grieving, the ravager gamora storyline, nebula's presence, and just other random details.

and i'm not just making up reasons to sound like a hater here lol like i've LITERALLY been saying since 2021 when mcu content resumed post-covid that, in general, one of my biggest gripes with post-eg mcu is the lack of rly going into the effects of 1) the 5-year time skip, and 2) the snap itself on most of the characters/stories, and unfortunately vol 3 ended up falling into the majority of films/shows that didn't rly deal with it much.

and my issue isn't necessarily gunn not wanting to deal with all that on top of the rocket story he wanted to do, but just like...we didn't have to make it a post-eg story then lol

in my ideal world we'd get like a vol 4 that is post-eg where it's just the gotg grieving gamora and searching for the new one, or perhaps even rectifying the whole original issue by bringing original gamora back or merging her with 2014!gamora etc. but either way, i think gamora's circumstances in her life and death warranted her getting a story just as much centered around her and driven by how much the other characters love her just as much as rocket did.

but yeah like you said anon, i just don't think gunn - or markus, mcfeely, or the russos bros for that matter - were equipped to handle this kind of storyline. and that isn't a bad thing! that isn't even a criticism of their work. it's just a literal fact that not all storytellers are equipped to handle every kind of story. and i don't think it should be A Big Deal to simply say that a white male storyteller may not be the best choice to tell the story of the consequences of a woc abuse survivor getting murdered by her abuser like lol. (bc when white male storytellers did tell that story, it was to show how the abuser actually Loved her and how there are parts of thanos we can still sympathize with UWU)

this is not even a radical opinion. this is quite literally the whole point of movements like #ownvoices and giving bipoc/queer/etc creatives jobs in directing and/or writing films/shows that center their identities.

like it literally is not that deep to suggest that local middle-aged white man james gunn (who's already made it clear that rocket was His Guy from the beginning, so we already know which character he'd prefer to focus on) was maybe not The Best Choice to write a story abt a woc surviving and escaping her abuser only to end up murdered by him in the end. he had his chance to show he was equipped to tell that story and he didn't, the end, case closed. it's as simple as that, and i don't wanna hear any dissenting opinions from white ppl, honestly!

[dilfdoctordoom]

Since you have so much knowledge about the comics do you think there was any way vol 3 could have incorporated the ravagers into more of the plot based on something from them?

I wasn't a fan of the ravagers and would have preferred vol 2 be the last time we saw them. Definitely didn't like Gamora being made part of their crew and that being where she ended up. That said if they're all James Gunn wanted I wish he had connected them to the main plot better and Gamora's old and new life felt merged by the end. It's like she's not on the level of the other guys now because he concluded her arc without ever giving her more tangible relationships with everyone. The description of the Strange Tales you mentioned sounds like it would have been the best story to adapt for vol 3, but since ravagers are what we got I'm trying to figure out how it could have been stronger.

Also this is a little off topic but reading your posts about Gamora have made me realize how badly we all need to go back the the drawing board when it comes to ideas about feminism and strong female roles. Not wanting to see every woman in a relationship or only being a love interest should never have become every lady needs to be single and alone. That's not equality or complexity. It's just as limiting as the things people are fighting against. There desperately needs to be much more understanding for the fact that white women are not the default of womanhood. Not every woman has been portrayed the same throughout the history of film. Gamora doesn't have to have a boyfriend but it will never be feminist that she lost her relationship because she was murdered. It's not lost on me that many fans have far less issue with white women being loved by popular male leads. Especially if those male leads are white. That needs to change. It's also not a win for the ladies that Nebula got a good arc because she was gifted Gamora's leading role on the team and Mantis wasn't even considered for a more leading role. That means James Gunn cared so little for all the women that he didn't bother to create enough space in his story for all to be on the team together in more equal prominence and no one losing the spots they previously had. Furthermore it's going backwards to have Gamora missing from Legos, funko's, marvel legends etc. Nobody is winning here when I can find multiple versions of all the men and Gamora is left out.

See, the thing is, there's a very obvious story with Gamora & the Ravagers and it annoys me endlessly that it wasn't taken, as it's a wonderful way to respect 2018 Gamora's legacy.

And that's this: Gamora is the heart of the Guardians. She's their moral center. Vol 1 & 2 established this and Vol 3 could've continued it with the Ravagers.

It's clear that the Ravagers are meant to be an homage to the original Guardians team that debuted before the modern revival. They just.... never get to act very heroic.

Gamora's how you fix it. It'd work her into the plot better too; 2014 Gamora did join the Ravagers... and she's slowly turned them from a band of thieves to a group of freedom fighters.

High Evolutionary is evil, we know this, the galaxy knows this-- so instead of Gamora joining up with the Guardians for money, it's a matter of the Ravagers and the Guardians working the same damn job.

It makes it clear that wherever Gamora goes, a family forms around her, one that's good and heroic because of her influence. It can be done to parallel the original Guardians. It gives the Ravagers their proper due and lets this Gamora establish herself while also respecting 2018 Gamora's legacy.

Of course, that's not what we got.

"Gamora doesn't have to have a boyfriend but it will never be feminist that she lost her relationship because she was murdered" EXACTLY Gamora didn't fall out of love, they didn't drift apart, she didn't grow out of that relationship-- she was violently murdered by her abuser. It was never an act of feminism to take away her love interest for the crime of being fridged.

Gunn's refusal to make space for women is especially glaring considering the run he chose to adapt. GOTG2008 isn't perfect by any means, but it did average 3 women in leading roles at a time, with arcs & forward-facing relationships. Phyla, Mantis, Gamora, and Heather were critical to the team's foundation & their dynamic. It's telling that Gamora was the only one allowed in the first movie, that a dumbed down and stripped-of-competency Mantis was let in for the second, & Phyla was only allowed a glorified cameo as a child.

The removal of women & their importance from this franchise is always gonna be an issue for me. I don't care how well done Nebula was, the women of color & queer women shouldn't have had to lose out for her existence. Ideally, they'd all coexist with the ease that all the men were allowed to.

But that'd mean giving a shit about women & at this point, I doubt that Gunn's all that capable of that.

[astromechs]

I want to preface this with I love Gunn's work with the guardians a lot. I know he's been the best for them in the mcu. I do believe he put a lot of love in vol 3. That said I have seen a lot of people blaming the Russo Brothers choices in IW for any messy parts of vol 3 and the thing is James Gunn wasn't helpless. He was a producer on IW/EG. He's talked about how he had to sign off on what happened and he's said that he did so because it served the story they were telling. This isn't me saying he's a bad guy or that he's never made good choices for Gamora. This is me saying that there were too many people who looked at Gamora's story as an abuse survivor and decided to prioritize her abuser and making him sympathetic. Gamora died all alone at the hands of her abuser while the spirit of a Nazi watched everything. None of that was necessary. There were other ways to make Thanos sympathetic. Or better idea is to not try to make an abusive genocidal maniac sympathetic

I do believe Gunn didn't love the choice and there probably was a lot of professional courtesy involved where he didn't want to knock what they wanted to do. But that still doesn't change that there are way too often biases in whose stories get priority and whose don't. I think women continue to be the ones most likely to lose out. There was no way that Steve Rogers or Thor for example were having their story end like Gamora's. especially not without any sort of intense emotional follow up. I don't think Gunn would have been keen on Rocket dying the way Gamora did either. Can't imagine Peter ending his time with guardians barely knowing who they were in a story he helped build. None of this means Gunn hasn't predominantly done amazingly well with gotg. It's just an example of how it often takes more effort and mindfulness to see the bigger picture of choices that get made for some characters.

The other issue is that there is an entire documentary on Disney about women in the mcu and Gamora is featured. The whole episode about her credits her for being essential to the guardians team and how she's the moral backbone. It also talks about how special her relationship with Nebula is. I loved the documentary but it made it even more obvious how awful killing her off was. She is the guardians. What she stood for, what she wanted out of life, what she wanted for herself, all of it embodies being a guardian and as much as I like vol 3 and love Rocket getting his time to shine, Gamora was the absolute last character who should have ended the trilogy only just beginning to have a new attachment to all of that. The very fact that there are people now arguing about if she has the right to be a guardian anymore goes to show what's depicted on screen matters.

gunn definitely isn't blameless, for sure; he signed off on it, and if his recent interviews are to be believed, actually had a plan to kill gamora off in vol 2 originally. (though part of me is like... that death for her would've been better than the one we ended up getting, because at least she would've gone out fighting of her own volition, and not murdered by her abuser with all her agency taken away, but that's a conversation for another day. still stupid af and why did she have to die at all, but... god lol, the bar is on the ground for anything being better than "murdered by her own abuser and thrown off the fucking fridge cliff.")

i think the issue here is we have a bunch of cishet white male creators, gunn included, who get this idea of, like, "oh this would be cool in the story," and don't have a good handle on their own internalized misogyny; this story would've never happened to peter, and it would've never happened to rocket, but.... sighs.

i love gunn's work, and he's gotten better over time (i really recommend peacemaker, especially, that show is really indicative of how much he's grown as a creator), but, yeah. it's not 100% the fault of markus and mcfeely/the russos, with gunn totally blameless.

[alaffy]

Guardians of the Galaxy Vol.3 (spoilers)

Nothing above the cut will be spoilers, just my general thoughts.  However, there’s a few things I want to mention that absolutely cannot be discussed without revealing major parts of the movie.  

Honestly, this might be my favorite Guardians movie.  It might also make my top ten of Marvel movies (though I never make that decision without seeing the movie more then once).  I will say this movie is a hard PG-13.  In most cases, it’s more about what is suggested then what is shown (although that’s not true in every case).  And, unsurprisingly as this is the story of Rocket’s origin, this movie takes some extremely dark turns.  If you have young children, you might want to see this movie first as I have a feeling that it may lead to some difficult questions to answer.  

Unlike Thor: Love and Thunder, I think the balance of drama and humor worked for the most part in this movie.  There was the occasion where a joke felt like it went on to long; but I think the humor was needed in the movie just to give the audience a chance to decompress.  And it’s a James Gunn movie; he’s usually pretty good when it comes to deciding when to put in humor.

The movie is beautiful to look at.  The CGI, for the most part, is handled very well.  Especially with the animal characters (well, almost.  There was something off about a character called Teeth’s face, it seemed a bit cartoony in places).  I will say that I’m not as impressed by the music in this volume.  While there are still good moments, some of the songs didn’t fit the scenes as well as one would expect.  

People might be disappointed with the Adam Warlock character.  His behavior is explained in the movie (he was taken out of his cocoon too soon and is more or less a child in an adult’s body) and, as the movie goes along, it becomes apparent that the character is...he’s taking everything in and you can kind of see him grow a little by the end credits.  In other words, yes he’s pretty much comic relief here; but there are signs he could become a more well rounded character as time goes on.  Also, I just like Will Poulter in this and I hope this isn’t his only chance to play the character.

Yes, this is clearly the last movie we will see with this team.  However, they do set up another Guardians team; so there’s a chance they could do Guardians 4 under another director.  However, with the exception of Rocket and Groot, everybody else has left the team.  That doesn’t mean that, if they did a 4th Guardians movie, some of these characters couldn’t come back; but it’s a good stopping point for any of the actors if they choose to move on.  Except, at the very end of the movie, there’s this scene where Peter is sitting at the table with his Grandfather.  Peter’s talking about cutting some woman’s lawn and wondering why her 45 year old son doesn’t do it.  Peter’s grandfather makes some cryptic comment about the son.  Right after, they flash to “the Legendary Star-Lord will return;” which indicates they’re not done with this character.  I was actually surprised as I figured that Chris would be one who might be ready to move on.  Apparently not.

Speaking of moving on...let’s talk about Gamora and Peter.  Understandably, Peter is having a hard time dealing with Gamora’s death seeing as how there’s another Gamora in the universe.  At the same time the amount of restraint Gamora has in this movie by having to deal with the guy who cannot seem to accept that she is not the Gamora he fell in love with...yeah, I felt sorry for him; but I felt more sorry for her.  Fortunately, this does not go where I was afraid it was going to go.  In other words, I was afraid that it would end with them together.  Instead, what we got was something a little more realistic (well, as realistic in a world with two versions of the same person).  As the movie goes along, and as Peter spends more time with the Gamora, he begins to see how the different events that his Gamora lived through vs. the ones that this Gamora has lived through has shaped them into different people.  Simply put, this is not the person he fell in love with.  At the same time, Gamora begins to see why a version of her could have have fallen in love with this man.  Ultimately, it comes to a moment where the two of them acknowledge that the relationship between Peter and the original Gamora was something special; but it was not something that could be replicated (nor should it even try to be replicated) between the two of them.

As I mentioned before, this is Rocket’s origin story.  It’s no shock that this movie is dark.  We knew back in Guardian’s one this would be horrible to watch based on Rocket’s drunken confession.  But, um, seriously what the fuck what the High Evolutionary doing to those animals?  I get evolving Rocket...but what was the purpose of the legs on Floor and why the fuck would you put wheels on a walrus?  How is this evolution?  Just seeing those characters...it’s just like, oh well, this is going to be a hell of a lot worse then I thought.  Of course, I wasn’t surprised that Rocket’s friends would die.  But that whole scene and the way that the High Evolutionary mocked Rocket...I think this is the scene that kids are going to have the hardest time with.  Hell, as an adult, I had a hard time with it.  

And speaking of the High Evolutionary....first of all, great casting.  I’ve seen Chuckwudi Lwuji in a couple of things (most recently Peacemaker) and he’s an amazing actor.  Two things about The High Evolutionary. I think he is one of the best MCU villains; he definitely is one of the most evil. I mean, you take a look at a character like Thanos.  Thanos, in his warped way, believes that what he’s doing is for the betterment of the universe.  He truly believes that all of the woes in the universe can be solved by wiping out half the population.  It’s insane, obviously, and he needed to be stopped; but it is what he believed.  The High Evolutionary may talk about Utopia and the betterment of others; but the reality is that he doesn’t give a shit about that, he just wants to be God.  

Second, there is the argument, one that has a lot of valid points, that Marvel’s one and done approach to villains is a waste, especially how a number of prominent villains have been killed. I would argue that this is one of the few times the villain had to die.  Between the things we are shown in flashback and the sheer genocide we witness in the present day, I think people would be dissatisfied...let’s put it a different way.  I think the audience needed to know that this is a character that would never be able to harm another living being again.  And, let’s face it, now that we have the multiverse; is any character truly dead? (Not saying that this is something Marvel should do.  In fact, I hope that don’t use the multiverse to bring characters back that often).

But this kind of leads into my final point.  In the trailer, there is a moment played for humor where Drax wants to kill people and Quinn is telling him we’re not killing anyone.  And this is a point made multiple times throughout the movie.  That is, until the end of the second act, where Peter straight up murders a man.  And I do mean murder. This man had no weapons and had surrendered.  Peter decides throws this man (and himself) out of a window.  Peter holds onto the man as they fall, until they are caught be Groot (who has formed some sort of tree branch wings).  Still, they continue to plummet to the ground; until Groot pulls up at the last second.  Well, pulls up enough for Peter and him to glide; the man is dragged upon the ground until he lands in a creek bed.  So, let’s be clear, this was a choice by Peter to take a person’s life.

What I found interesting was how little I was shocked or horrified by this event. Like, going to another Marvel show, when US Agent beat that man with Captain America’s shield.  Like this was the moment that proved that Agent could never be the hero because he killed a person in cold blood.  Well, in my mind, that idea has to be amended a bit; because apparently you can.  Now, I think a lot of that has to do with the two people who were killed.  US Agent killed a man who, while he was a part of a terrorist organization, was not the one guilty of killing Agent’s partner.  Then scientist/butcher that Peter killed.... the one thing I remember about him is that he always seemed to be smiling.  The one thing I will say about the High Evolutionary is that I don’t think he took enjoyment from watching creatures suffer (to be clear, I just don’t think he gave a damn); but this guy always seemed....happy.  Again, I think there’s a satisfaction in knowing this person can’t hurt anyone again.  Unlike US Agent, I don’t think this moment made Peter any less of a hero.  In fact, I think it shows how human (for lack of a better term) these characters are.

[themovieblogonline]

Guardians of the Galaxy 3: A Thrilling Cosmic Adventure From Marvel's Space Squad

Marvel Studios’ “Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 3” is full of surprises and will keep audiences on the edge of their seats. This last film in James Gunn’s trilogy combines deep emotion, the director’s special brand of humor, cinematic artistry, and action-packed moments—all leading to an outcome that no one will expect…#bringyourtissues. The Good about Guardians of the Galaxy Vol 3: Say what you want about James Gunn, but he stuck the landing with this Guardians of the Galaxy. The strong character development for each of the characters really makes this movie stand out. Not only does Rocket get his time in the spotlight, but so do the other Guardians. Peter Quill and Gamora's reunion is explosive. Drax has a great arc in this film that, while not filled with the murderous Thanos hate-filled rage that we know that character for, is deeply satisfying in its own way. Mantis and Nebula try to get in on the development too, and while their arcs aren't as pronounced, they are growing much more than what we've seen before and what I expected. The characters feel like they deserve their growth, and it's satisfying to watch and hear. The music in Guardians of the Galaxy Vol 3, while not perfect, supported a lot of the emotional moments well. I was nervous about the runtime, but the combination of funky but fun camera work and oftentimes good music makes for a fun experience on the big screen. You'll tap your feet, nod your head, and you might even see some overexcited people break into dance. The movie was pretty immersive, and that rocks! Speaking of rocking, the movie has some really good special effects. We've been trained to lower our expectations in that department, so it was really refreshing to see effects done so well. Groot, Rocket, and the High Evolutionary's creations are really cool to see because they look so good. The explosions rocked the theater, and space looked awesome and cold. Overall, this movie delivers some of the best effects we've seen in quite some time. The Bad about Guardians of the Galaxy Vol 3: Adam Warlock. Every time I saw this character on screen, I cringed a little. Now, I know I'm not supposed to compare to the comics, but when you completely change a character this strongly, it feels insincere. He's nothing like his source material, and he's not interesting in his adaptation to the MCU. Not only was this character a disappointment in characterization, but he also feels completely unnecessary. One of my least favorite character types are ones that can be removed from the story and have no inherent impact on the story. It feels like that character isn't needed at all. The High Evolutionary isn't a remarkable villain. Granted, this franchise is less about the villains and more about the Guardians themselves, but this character seems derivative and doesn't stand out as a villain on his own. He's a little bit of Kang, a lot of Doctor Doom, but not at all unique. I like the performer, even when he's a little hammy, but I don't think he's at all distinctive. Overall: I really like this movie. Like, a lot. This is a great return to form for the Guardians and comic book films. It's full of heart, action, and some great emotionally charged character development. I laughed, I cheered, and my eyes got watery, which is the kind of experience I love in a movie. Read the full article

[aburningpotathoe]

EVERYTHING WE KNOW ABOUT THE MCU PHASE 5 (SDCC)

Soo theres a lot to discuss, lets get going shall we

Idk if the Guardians christmas special is still happening/is canon/is a part of phase 5, finishing phase 4 on black panther makes a lot of sense but at the same time, starting the next phase with a special doesn't

Ant-Man and the Wasp: Quantumania

This movie will see the main group of heroes travel into the quantum realm and battle Kang

We dont know if Ghost (Hannah John-Kamen) and Jimmy Woo (Randall Park) are returning (please give us some news about ghost homegirl has been waiting for them to return from the quantum realm for 5 years)

Kang (Jonathan Majors) is set to appear and to have some very cold lines about fighting the avengers in other universes

"Have i killed you before?" that's an amazing line right there yup

Modok will appear, however his appearance will be more metallic rather than the human face he has in the comic probably to avoid an uncanny valley moment (*cough * strange's 3rd eye)

Cassie Lang (Cathryn Newton) will appear as stinger. Her relationship with Scott Lang (Paul Rudd) will be explored as they struggle to connect given that Scott didn't see her grow up. (Paul Rudd seems to have debunked the rumor that Scott will be rich and famous and that will make him loose touch with his daughter, however, the rumor that he published a book has been confirmed)

There are rumors that Scott will die in this movie (pls stop)

The director also teased some unexpected cameos, and said the movie will change the MCU as a whole

Secret Invasion

Maria Hill (Cobie Smulders) is confirmed to return (slay) as well as Rhodey (big slay)

QUAKE (CHLOE FRICKING BENNET) is rumored to return (chloe liked some twitter posts about her being in secret invasion and she is rumored to have signed a contract with marvel)

The series is rumored to be a political espionnage thriller with the same vibes as The Winter Soldier

We dont know how much of the Kree-Skrull war we will get to see as the series will likely be mostly set on earth

Guardians of The Galaxy Vol.3

This film is 'the end of the guardians era' for James Gunn, its likely the last Guardians movie HOWEVER that doesnt mean they will all die and cant appear in future projects

Drax (Dave Bautista) is rumored to die however (hot take: i don't really care about him and i never found him that funny)

The movie will have the High Evolutionary (Chukwudi Iwuji) as one of its villains, and we will probably see how he experimented on Rocket Racoon (Bradley Cooper)

Baby Rocket is also there!!!!!

Adam Warlock (Will Poulter) will return and is rumored to have Goldenish skin

No trailer yet because the VFX isnt finished (that feels like a jab at the cgi quality hate the mcu is getting)

Gamora (Zoe Saldana) is rumored to join the ravagers and be as angsty as ever with Star-Lord (Chris Pratt)

Echo

This will be the first MCU-street level series (if you dont count Hawkeye because meh). It will likely be a setup of the mcu street level world so that they dont have to explain it in the Daredevil Series, i just hope the pacing will be ok and not just 6 hours of exposition about this reality

Echo (Alaqua Cox) will obviously return, but so will Daredevil, in his black suit (!!). It is very likely that Kingpin (Vincent D'Onofrio) will also return, given that he was shot by echo in the Hawkeye finale.

Daredevil is rumored to be looking for an old ally, that is rumored to be my baby Jessica Jones (Krysten Ritter, marvel if you recast her i sWEAR-)

Loki season 2

Loki (Tom Hiddleston) and Sylvie (Sophia di Martino) will return and will be working at McDondald's (???) according to set photos (???)

Part of the show will be set in the seventies as a Bollywood poster featuring Kingo (Kumail Nanjiani) from that town is shown in set photos

Kang will probably appear given that he seems to have took over the TVA at the end of season 1

Mobius (Owen Wilson) will most likely be back

The Marvels

We will see light of my life Kamala Khan (Iman Vellani) again

Nick Fury (Samuel L. Jackson) will most likely appear, following his appearance in secret invasion

Part of the movie is rumored to be a musical (why) as the characters end up in a planet where everyone sings. Carol (Brie Larson) is rumored to be married to this planets' leader (queen?) in a very killing eve-esque way

A scene is rumored to be a ship containing Humans, Skrulls and Flurkens (space cats!!!) being attacked (likely by Krees) and the cats gettinf people to safety

We will likely see the Kree empire again

Blade

Oooh another fun project i dont really know what to expect but it will likely be a street-level movie.

Mahershala Ali is rumored to play Blade (big yes), this is his second Marvel role after playing Cottonmouth in Netflix's Luke Cage

Anthony Starr (Homelander from the Boys) is rumored to star as Dracula

Dane Whittman (Kit Harrington) will likely star as the Black Knight after the Eternals post-credit scene featured him with the black sword adn Blade's voice

We might get a Werewolf by night (Gael Garcia Bernal) cameo (if the Halloween special is still a thing) or even a Moon Knight (Oscar Isaac) one (please marvel let me see my emotional support Dilf again)

Ironheart

Nothing much is known about the project, other than it will be centered around Riri Williams (Dominique Thorne), that will appear beforehand in Wakanda Forever

There is a rumor that Obadiah Stane's son will appear

The show might revolve around the stole stark tech mentioned in No Way Home

Agatha: Coven of Chaos

The series was renamed (previously titled house of Harkness), we will likely see other witches given the title

They might be teasing Wanda's return (please!!!!!!) as she is the only Chaos Magic wielder in the mcu

The curse Wanda (Elizabeth Olsen) put on Agatha (Kathryn Hanh) will most likely be broken after Wanda's DeAtH in MoM

Maybe we get some more information on Ralf Bohner (Evan Peters) or smt because his character in WandaVision was pointless

MePhIsTo.. no but maybe Chton??? since they changed the title to include the world Chaos

Daredevil: Born Again

The series will be 18 episodes long and most likely TV-MA (pls marvel)

Matt Murdock and Wilson Fisk will return, and so will Karen Page (Deborah Ann Woll) and Foggy Nelson (Elden Henson) most likely

The Punisher is set to return

If the Echo rumors about Jessica Jones are true, she might appear here too

If were lucky we get all of the defenders or even Claire (Rosario Dawson)

It is unclear wether this series will be the fourth season of the original, however it will probably be a soft reboot (the og series still happened so they dont have to explain character motivations and stuff but it wont be referenced

Captain America: New World Order

SAM WILSON (ANTHONY MACKIE) IS CAP, STEVE IS EITHER DECOMPOSING OR ON DEATHBED STOP SAYING HE WILL RETURN AS CAP IT FEELS RACIALLY MOTIVATED

oh and also no bucky (Sebastian Stan) will not be the next cap

he will be in this film tho, most likely and people are speculating wether he will die (i would die with him)

the title is the same as the first episode of The Falcon and the Winter Soldier

Isaiah Bradley (Carl Lumbly) and his nephew (Elijah Richardson) might return (pls), as well as John Walker (Wyatt Russell) and Zemo (Daniel Bruhl)

Idk why but i feel like this movie will setup the Thunderbolts, like maybe the government realize that a superhearo is more of a PR stunt that someone they cand send on possibly comprosmizing missions, which leads to the cration of this villain team

THUNDERBOLTS

Most likely we will get a tribute to William Hurt (Thaddeus Ross) given he passed away recently

Given that fact, Zemo will most likely be the leader of the team

This basically Marvel's suicide squad so i hope they manage to make the movie different enough

Valentina Allegra (Julia Louis-Dreyfus) will most likely be the one to put the team together and recruit agents.

Yelena (Florence Pugh), Bucky, Abomination (Tim Roth) and Ghost are all likely on the team

Especially ghost because i feel like they put her in Marvel Zombies out of nowhere to remind us of her existence since she wont have a major role in Quantumania

Some characters that are yet to be introduced will be in this movie

[agent-bumblebee]

What If…? Episode 9/ Series Finale review:

(SPOILERS AHEAD)

Boy that was quite the finale wasn’t it?

Anyways, let’s get in to it.

So this is episode serves as the finale of What If…? Basically uniting all of the heroes of the multiverses in a sort of multiverse version of the Avengers.

And man, that was really good.

And the roster of the team includes: Captain Carter, T’Challa/Star-Lord (With this one being Chadwick Boseman’s last role, as in like this is his final time portraying the character, so R.I.P to the king one more time), Party Thor, Strange Supreme, Killmonger (in his Black Panther suit), Black Widow (from the previous episode)

And in a weird addition, Gamora in the Thanos armor.

And I say weird because she just showed up out of nowhere, along with Tony Stark in some sort of Sakaar suit.

I feel like they would have made an episode about this, it’s either a. They forgot, or b. They where going to but possibly couldn’t do it, cuz of current events.

Whatever the case, it felt weird seeing Gamora pop out of nowhere.

And speaking of episodes, I did enjoy that we see the payoff of each episode actually happening.

Like, the payoff to episode 1 after Captain Carter travelled to the future after being stuck for 70 years, is basically the events of The Winter Soldier.

The payoff to episode 2, see Ego using Peter as a battery, and managed to unleash the plant thing we saw in Guardians Of The Galaxy Vol.2, with T’Challa and the ravagers helping to prevent it.

The payoff to episode 3 (which happens at the end, after that heart to heart between both Black Widow and The Watcher), where Loki has taken over, and the substitute Avengers (I.e. Captain America and Captain Marvel) are fending off Loki’s army.

The payoff to episode 6, where Pepper Potts, Shuri, and the Dora Milaje, are seeking out Killmonger and getting revenge for killing Stark and T’Challa

And the payoff to episode 7, where Thor is basically fighting all of Ultron’s bots, all by himself, after they entered through a portal.

But besides the payoffs to previous episodes, there are of course nodes to them, for instance we see the Zombie universe again, as well as the zombie Scarlet Witch, as well as the Arrow USB, that contains the consciousness of Arnim Zola from the previous episode.

Plus that final showdown against Ultron was great, got massive goosebumps and even chills, tho kinda rushed, I still enjoyed it, I also loved that short conversation between Ultron and Arnim Zola, before Zola pretty much put him offline, was also good.

Plus I did liked how Killmonger puts on the Ultron armor with all the infinity stones, and tries to say that it could help fix our universes. I find that very interesting.

I even liked that mid-credits scene where we see The Hydra Stomper from Episode 1, with Black Widow saying someone is inside, which could possibly be Steve Rogers, since he did use it, but either way really liked it.

Overall a very good episode, and a good finale.

And hopefully we could get a season 2, and I can’t wait.

9.5/10

[empathmantis]

Nobody talks about how Endgame also screwed over the Guardians (probably because Steve’s ‘arc’ was just so bad that it overshadowed a lot of the other terrible plot points and character decisions, which is is understandable), so I guess I’m going to take a shot at it.

1. Gamora was done. so. dirty. And by that vein, so was Nebula. How is it satisfying to see Tony Stark take down Thanos when the dude barely had any interaction with him before? Why were Nebula and Gamora (and most of the Guardians, honestly) pushed away from the forefront of the battle? I get that this is a move for the initial Avengers, to wrap up their stories and that phase of the MCU, but it’s still frustrating to see the characters who have been abused and tortured and lost their entire family to Thanos just kind of brushed aside. This isn’t your movie, Nebula, so you don’t get poetic justice. Also you have to kill your past self so, uh... have fun living with that trauma for the rest of your life.

2. What is the point of Vol. 2 now? As someone who is a huge Guardians Vol. 2 fan, I feel so cheated after Endgame. Every established relationship, every character arc that Gunn worked to build is gone. Gamora and Nebula’s beautiful familial love and bond? Gone. Quill and Gamora’s realization that there was something more between them after she saw him change and choose his found family over Ego? Gone. All of the Guardians working as a familial unit after being together for over 5+ years? Gone. Part of the reason why I love Guardians so much is because of the dynamic between the characters, and while I’m sure Gunn will do a fine job writing a mission to ‘find Gamora’ or whatever, I’d much rather see a continuation of Vol. 2 than backpedaling to get to place with the characters that had been extremely well-crafted and thought out over the course of two films.

3. Let’s also take into account the autonomy of 2014 Gamora and how her entire character will have changed because of when Thanos died, how Thanos died, how she interacted with present Nebula, etc. I really hate the idea of Quill chasing down someone who isn’t even ‘his’ Gamora and trying to win her back. The writers even said “Retrieving a still-living Black Widow from an earlier timeline would’ve been a weirdly selfish decision. Like, effectively, we’re going to kidnap a version of Black Widow who knows nothing about the current circumstances and bring her to the future just so we can have one. It’s not really asking her whether she wants to go.” BUT ISN’T THAT EXACTLY WHAT YOU DID TO GAMORA?

4. Just the way everyone was written... It started in Infinity War and continued on in Endgame. It’s like they were reverting back to the first volume’s tropes instead of taking into consideration the growth that the characters had gone through in Vol. 2. Why is Quill still referring to his relationship with Gamora as a ‘long term booty call’? Why is Rocket being blatantly insulting when he realized that pushing people away was a defense mechanism? Why is Mantis now walking like an actual praying mantis? Why do they have her condone violence for some stupid joke in the last part of Endgame when she’s always been an empath and relatively passive? I AM GROOT?! There were definitely character beats and dialogue that were well-written in IW, but some of it made me wonder if the writers even watched Vol. 2.

5. I’m still confused by the time travel thing, and I know I’m not meant to make sense of it, but... since 2014 Gamora came to the present, does that mean there’s another universe where Ronan got the power stone and destroyed the Xandarians? Or, if by some miracle of the gods, Quill and the rest of the team without Gamora managed to defeat Ronan, wouldn’t Ego just take over the galaxy anyway? Or would Ronan even do what he did considering 2014 Thanos isn’t around in his timeline anymore? IT’S SUCH A MESS, I CAN’T MAKE SENSE OF IT. Either way, alternative universes are just glossed over in one scene with The Ancient One, and no one really stops to think about their dopplegangers being like... brutally murdered or possibly enslaved in a different universe. I’m sorry, but that just seems so selfish and sloppy.

[starmora]

I hope it's alright to say my piece on the whole Gamora situation. I know there's obviously nothing to be done now since you nor I are in charge of the films, but I guess other than a handful of people who get how badly she was treated in the overall narrative by the end, it's a little maddening to see soooooo many people just... not be bothered by it? It's obviously not serious being fiction, but I kind of can't get over it and find it somewhat haunting to think so many people, including Gunn, don't find Gamora's situation to be anything less than horrific.

I've struggled to find the words and don't want anyone interpreting me the wrong way, I care about the Guardians as a whole and try to keep from playing favorites because I don't think anyone's single trauma should ever override anyone else's, but it's very obvious that Gunn didn't feel the same when he's continually said he only came back to direct Vol. 3 because of Rocket. I absolutely understand how much he relates to him and his struggles, he's always made that clear, and I don't want to downplay Rocket's need to overcome his problems relating to his past. But I cannot wrap my head around how he could see where Gamora was left post IW/EG and think she didn't deserve so much more attention on the same level as Rocket.

I know there's only so much time in a film and you'll never be able to do or fix everything, but I think it hurts Vol. 3 really badly that from what seems like the beginning Gamora was always included as an afterthought. Why Gunn didn't realize that he could've wrote something including Rocket and Gamora as main characters I'll never understand. I feel the potential for there being something to be said about how they're both different yet so similar to each other is right there, but we don't even get a direct interaction between the two. The weird choice to have IW/EG dictate where the team is emotionally but at the same time refuse to actually expand upon is a poor choice, because we as the audience shouldn't have to fill in every single gap between then and now on how the characters feel, that's just dumb.

I can't help but feel it's almost cartoonishly cruel to just pretend Gamora did but also didn't really matter to everyone outside of Peter in the end, I would think Gunn of all people would realize that when he literally wrote Rocket to knock her out in Vol. 2 because he "couldn't lose another friend" just for him to not have any reaction to her fate post IW. Vol. 3 literally opens with the song Creep that includes the lyrics "I want you to notice when I'm not around" and to have everyone completely ignore OG Gamora's existence immediately after that is genuinely horrible.

Ofc it’s okay, I’m always glad to hear from other ppl regarding this because I know a lot of people will wanna brush us off or just claim that we’re hating on vol 3 for no reason and like for me it really isn’t that because for what it was, vol 3 was great but there’s just this feeling that I can’t get over that Gamora just shouldn’t have been treated like this for the last ten years

I agree with everything you said here, and your last paragraph has been on repeat in my head ever since I read it the first time.

[caatws]

I just want to say thank you for pointing out that open ended canon doesn't make up for major skipping of on screen character development, especially when women and poc are involved. Same with other groups who don't always have consistent treatment in film or TV or real life. I love headcanons and playing with concepts but I don't want to have to fill in huge gaping hole sized gaps all the damn time for the same characters who just so happen to fall into a specific demographic. At some point it's no longer a coincidence.

I don't want to be told well there wasn't time for Gamora to get a funeral or have her emotions around being in the future explored and it's okay because I'm sure it happened and we can just imagine everyone cared. How about no. How about if Yondu can get a funeral, a flashback in the holiday special and a quick spiritual glimpse in vol 3, they could do much better by Gamora. If they had used her coming to the future as a way to have a new life with the guardians and new bonds I'd be more okay with it. James Gunn didn't do that though. He had her get a new family we never see developed and then have her old family a stupid mix of "I'm losing my mind" (Peter) and "lol whose Gamora we don't know her"(everyone else). With Nebula and her having a decent groove and being sisters but we don't know how that's been going. The whole thing is painful to me.

so true anon!! like the way women and poc are dismissed and treated irl has always informed their less than great treatment in film and tv more often than not, and when we see it happen, we should be able to call it out and dissect it and feel our feelings about it together. at the end of the day, gunn still writes from his white male pov (which i think everyone can agree has been blatantly obvious since vol 1), and it may result in some female, bipoc, and especially woc characters getting left behind in the end, intentionally or not.

i'm RLY glad you brought up yondu bc i hadn't even thought of those points before but YOU ARE SO RIGHT. yondu has gotten these incredible, impactful moments after his death that have been cool and all, but it's weird that someone who ultimately still treated peter so badly (despite loving him) and didn't have much of a relationship with the rest of the gotg besides rocket has been given a better onscreen legacy than someone who loved peter and the entire team so fully and unconditionally all along. even to her last breath, gamora was doing whatever she could, even if it meant killing herself, to try to protect them all, and the whole universe too, and then that's just...the last we see of her? ever? dead, at the bottom of the fridging cliff?

and yeah you pretty much summed up every character's attitude toward her in vol 3 lmaooo. like honestly if i were peter maybe i'd want to leave everyone at the end of vol 3 too, after being the only one made out to be grieving original gamora while everyone else is just chilling. like i think i would've been driven to a breaking point with that dynamic, Actually

and again, mcu CANON has been giving us all this stuff abt variant characters for years now, essentially treating them as all separate characters rather than the same, interchangeable individual just with different memories, so like. what am i supposed to do with all these "no it's still gamora she just doesn't remember us so it's fine" comments in the context of the mcu multiverse rules lol

[dilfdoctordoom]

I know I'm late to the conversation but I wanted to speak up to say I agree with the person who mentioned it looked like Gunn had a grudge against Gamora. That's exactly how I've been feeling. It felt like such a heartless move to have Gamora join in on the hardships, fighting and difficult moments but then turn around and keep her from getting to wear the uniform, the group hugs and getting to talk about what she could do with her life in the future.

This was the last movie. The last time to see these characters connected and at their best. He chose to disconnect her and showcase her at her worst. There absolutely had to be ways he could have explored Gamora more, added some nuances and allow Gamora to join in the more joyful parts of the movie. The hug with the ravagers didn't make up for the rest because they aren't the ones we have been following on this long, emotional journey about overcoming trauma, loss and abuse. The uniform, group hugs and hopeful possibilities for the future were hard earned for all of them including Gamora. Especially because the only reason she died and then came back all disconnected is because of her abuser. A serious fact that movie bends over backwards to ignore.

The most difficult part of this for me is seeing people act like nothing is wrong and how they often fall into two infuriating categories. First you've got the "this movie is perfect if you didn't understand it you just don't comprehend storytelling" group. They make me upset because they will often act shocked that Gamora didn't get much merch, that fandom ignores what she meant to the entire franchise and why there are any arguments over if she's a guardian or not. And it's like, gee I don't know guys, maybe because the movie sidelined her, had everyone act like she never meant anything to the team and then proceeded to have every character including blurp wear the gotg uniform. I really don't understand the blinders people refuse to remove. The other group is all about loving how Gamora was portrayed and think she's "such a strong character" now that she's single and not part of the team. But then they proceed to mostly talk about every other characters growth, vulnerability and how awesome it is their part of the guardians family. It's amazing people don't recognize how much they are telling on themselves.

I don't think I have ever been as disappointed by an mcu film as I have been with vol 3. To have a whole beautiful concept of survivors getting to be validated in their pain, find family in each other, heal and come out the other side better than ever only for Gamora be killed off by her abuser and then treated the way she is in vol 3. It makes it hard for me to view the franchise the same way because it feels like Gamora was used. They let her heart and what she wanted out of life help define what it meant to be a guardian and didn't bother to honor any of this after her death.

Rewatching Vol 1 & 2 after Vol 3 makes it all worse, IMO. It's like you said; Gamora's heart is what drives these films forward, what leads to the establishment of this family unit in the first place. If she's not there, there is no Guardians.

Seeing how Vol 3 treated her... it feels mean. She's not really allowed to be mad at the why Quill is treating her without somebody else stepping in, she's not allowed to be a part of the group hug (but fucking Adam is????), she's never allowed a uniform (which also cuts down her merch), she's not allowed anything, yet we're supposed to be pleased with her getting a hug with a group of people we do not know, we do not care about, and we've never been shown why we should give a damn about this moment between them.

I really hate the people acting like her being single is a good thing. In a franchise wrought with issues regarding women and women of color especially, having the leading woman of color not get a family, not get a love interest, is not feminist. At the end of the day, Zoe Saldana is a woman of color, and women of color have very different tropes surrounding them in media. A white woman not ending up in a romance might be feminist; a woman of color is an entirely different thing.

Just... there's so much here, that at least a little bit of it feels intentional. It's fucking deranged that Gamora is the sole reason this family exists and that Gamora gets her memory shit on (no one mourning her death, calling her a "lilypad", etc) while the living Gamora is wholly separated from everything her past self held dear, all because she got murdered by her abuser for saving her sister.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: the second Gunn signed off on Gamora dying like that, Vol 3 needed to be her movie.