#and again if you’re having a critical discussion doesn’t mean that you’re upset

[joker-daughter]

I understand these frustrations when it’s come to Tom Career because I’m disappointed with some os his choices too and want better for him but it shouldn’t consume some of his fans the much like it’s not the deep lol I’m still going supporting after all and if hes not doing anything for some to keep their expectations when it’s come to him I think some should try to follow others they known would full their expectations just saying 🤐 it’s not healty being this obsessed over someone career and choice because this is for about what they want for THEM not for him thought and let’s wait and see what Tom wants and says in a new interview because the man just be saying every time something new lol like go doing what you like and try to forgot about Tom choices lol

again not to sound too harsh but I love how some of you act like we have pulled these “expectations” out of our asses lol, his fans are frustrated bc of the things they heard him say over the last couple years multiple times, of course this whole thing would be a completely different story if he had not set certain expectations himself but again, I also agree with the sentiment that no one should feel trapped

[h0ney-gl0ws]

Hades boys! When you’re in an argument!

This is my take on how the hades boys would react if you were to get into an argument

Very minor spoilers for Hypnos’ locked heart event.

Word Count: 1,247 (Approx)

Zagreus

-Zagreus is friendly with all people of the house of hades, so with that comes questions. Lots and lots of questions.

-How could he not? He’s interested in you and wants to show he cares by learning all about you.

-Until the inevitable happens and he asks a question too personal for your taste. Naturally, you get snippy with him.

-He’ll immediately apologize, but it’ll be in vain. You lecture him about diving into other people’s personal business, and send him away.

-Zagreus would feel pretty bad about it after. He meant no harm or malice. He was simply curious, and his own lack of common sense caused him to upset you. He decides to take matters into his own hands once again, and try to make it up to you.

-Over the course of his next few runs, he gathers nectar and hopes to run into you. When he finally does catch up to you again, you have had time to cool off, and before he could apologize to you, you beat him to it.

-“I’m sorry Zagreus,” You start, “I didn’t mean to blow up at you I was just angry in the moment. You didn’t know that would offend me, and instead of yelling at you I should have instead explained that I didn’t want to answer the question, forgive me?”

-“What? No, its really me who should be apologizing to you. You were right about me getting involved in things that aren’t my business. I’m really sorry for offending you, I didn’t mean to. Please accept this apology gift of nectar. I hope I can make it up to you someday.” He says presenting the pristine bottle to you.

-You smile, accepting the gift. You give him a hug and suggest sharing the bottle in the lounge. Zagreus says he’d like that, and (at Zagreus’ insistence) you would discuss your boundaries regarding questions. As well as telling him a bit about yourself you don’t mind sharing.

-Next time Zagreus sees you it’s on much better terms, and you’re happy to answer any questions he might have as long as he sticks to your agreement.

Thanatos

-Thanatos is naturally dark and brooding, but don’t mistake that for anger. As he is actually very sweet when it comes down to it, if not a bit abrupt.

-However, that does not mean he doesn’t get cross with people. Especially when it comes down to his work.

-When you first arrived at the house of hades, you automatically took a liking to him. His visits to the house were far and few in between, but when he did show up, you bet you were taking advantage of the opportunity.

-You even got a job at the administrative chambers to try and get more chances to talk to him.

-Whenever he delivered reports to you, you would try to engage in conversation.

-His answers were always short and direct, but you’d take what you could get. He’d often disappeared right after as well. Leaving you a little disappointed.

-One day, the rare occurrence of him being in the house came around. The prince walking away after chatting with him and giving you a small wave. You just finished collecting a few reports from Hypnos and you have a few moments to spare.

-“Hey Thanatos!” You shout out.

-“Why must you insist on bothering me so when we both have jobs to do?” He replied.

-“What?”

-“I’m very busy every day, yet every time i must interact with you, you postpone my duties with idle chatter. Why?”

-You scoff, “I’m just being friendly, I didn’t realize your such a workaholic you can’t spare a few seconds to answer how you’ve been.”

-“I suggest you worry more about yourself and your work ethic before criticizing mine.”

-With the toll of a gong he was gone, and you were upset.

-As the weeks past by every time, Thanatos would deliver a report to you, you’d give him the cold shoulder. He often look at you expectantly, but you wouldn’t mutter a peep to him. You didn’t want to disturb his oh so important work after all.

-Eventually, Zagreus was the one to get fed up with your silent feud. Bringing the topic up to Than the next time he got the chance. Than relented that maybe he was too harsh in his treatment of you. After all you were just trying to be friendly. Even though it’d hurt his pride, he promised Zagreus he’d talk to you.

-Sure enough, he took the next chance he could to talk to you. He told you he didn’t realize how much he missed your pointless questions. That he simply didn’t want to be held up with his work, as it very important for death to be punctual and he got annoyed with you because of it. You said you understood, but really you just wanted to get to know him better. How you didn’t realize it was holding him up at all. He admitted he overreacted, and made a promise to you the next time you both had a break, to spend time with you.

-You told him you’d hold him to that promise

Hypnos

-It’s no secret Hypnos has his flaws. Yes, he can be lazy, gets easily sidetracked, and often sleeps on the job, but being one of the few people who smile around here, he actually drew you in.

-On the rare occurrences he’d actually be awake, he’d often try to engage in conversation with the shades. Most would ignore his antics, all but you.

-You’d entertain his silly chats, coming to quite enjoy the time you’d spend together. It was a breath of fresh air to have someone cheerful to hang around.

-Then, the time came when you asked him to join you for a break. A time to hangout together and do things important to you.

-He agreed but when the time came for you to meet…he didn’t show up.

-You sought him out feeling a bit hurt he’d abandon your plans like that. After shaking him awake, he spoke excuse after excuse, promising you it wouldn’t happen again and he’d meet you the next time.

-You conceded, it was only one time, it really could have been an honest mistake.

-Until it happened again, and again, and again…

-By this point you were hurt, frustrated, and disappointed. So, you got angry with Hypnos. Saying that the things people said about him were true. How he’s a self absorbed lowlife who never takes anything seriously and only cares about himself.

-After that a few weeks pass by with you not running into Hypnos. Rumors spurred that he was…actually working? Apparently you weren’t the only person to blow up at him that day.

-Hypnos appeared in front of you later, and apologized for missing out on the times you tried to get to know him. He said that his twin Thanatos really made him have a realization into getting his work in check, and the importance of proper priorities. He ended his schpeal by saying he’d start prioritizing you when he got the chance, and invited you to spend some time with him the next time he got a break.

-This time he was true to his word.

[circular-bircular]

I’m not going to bother blocking (believe it or not, I agree with some of your posts, and I don’t enjoy cutting off discussions) but I also am not giving anymore notes to the post, particularly when the “very open to discussion” person blocks and hides people attempting to add to the discussion. They also seem quite agitated with me and said they’d block me if I interacted again, so!

We're normally a long post to be in detail about our points and topics we get, or small generalized posts with 0 to no explanation at all because we're tired or some other shit that makes us be lazy and don't talk in depth in a a topic

And that is absolutely fair! We do the same — quick, over generalized posts. The difference is, we 1) try to make those posts as open ended as possible, or open to others experiences as possible, and 2) we accept the criticism of others when they tell us it’s over generalized.

All my response was was a criticism pointing out the flaws in the over generalization, because I think your over generalization was absolutely heinous, and is used constantly to discredit singlets from a discussion that I find them vital to.

In all the topics, not only surrounding system topics/syscourse the generalization don't talk about all the cases, there's a lot of "it depends" in every topic you can imagine, we firmly believe that the best answer to any topic regarding the topic is "it depends" but we're just too lazy to elaborate sometimes, that's why in the repost we did you may see some "incongruences", it's just we did talk in more depth, we're just lazy lol

K. “I’m just lazy” really isn’t the best defense you think it is. I’m glad you can acknowledge that you over generalized, but at that point, I think it’s fair to accept criticism from others for that laziness. Syscourse is a high-octane conversation with nuance and depth; not a quick post you fling out from your bed in 5 seconds with no thought because you’re lazy.

I get it, I do; I’m currently sick with at least 4 different illnesses and I don’t have a lot of spoons. But I can still debate. I can still raise valuable points and dedicate time to things. Hell, my response to your originally was lazy, because I relied on the thing I find easiest — sarcasm — to discredit your point, hoping the slap to the face bluntness might get through to you the point. That obviously didn’t work! It typically does for my 11 year old students, so I guess that’s on me for assuming you’d react to sarcasm similarly.

So yeah, we tend to generalize and be short with no explanation sometimes, you just happened to encounter one of that posts, but those post are completely open to civil discussion, in those cases we do prefer not to quote the first post because it's a lazy generalized why of our opinion. I say this to have in mind for future references with our posts, if we're gonna talk in depth of this topics we might seem hypocrite or incongruent for this exact reason

Thank goodness this is a civil discussion then! So was sysmedsaresexist’s reply, but you still blocked that discussion. Unless by “civil” you mean “must concede points to me, even if they disagree with me, and must not sound angry at all.” In which case — yeah no, I have dampened my anger far too much in syscourse to allow some rando who’s spouting non-nuanced nonsense to earn my silence.

I’m allowed to be pissed off at non-nuanced posts. I’m allowed to be upset at things that further the split between singlets and systems in the system community! (Though, thank you, because as this is my last response to this particular post, it’s helped me realize I can dedicate this frustration toward yet another post about singlets and how much benefit they have in system discussions!)

“Civility” is a concept that doesn’t make sense to me in these situations. I’m never sure what someone means. From my perspective, I’ve been civil. I’ve also been insulting and mean. I’ve also criticized neutrally. I’ve done all those things! That’s all still civil to me. I didn’t harass you, I didn’t blast you on my blog — I just reblogged your points (which from my perspective encourage a dangerous mentality) and was mean about it. I think I’m well within my rights.

I do think is inappropriate to make a blog about syscourse if you're not a system, yeah, the problem might affect you because of people who are close to you and they might have some things to say about topics regarding system, but when it comes to syscourse most of the topics around it are about the community of systems that affects the community of systems, so a non-system talking about it it's just weird and doesn't have sence

You keep flip flopping. You described how it’s perfectly reasonable for my partner to participate in syscourse in the previous post, and now you say they shouldn’t, but with a new goal post added.

I disagree with you fundamentally about what syscourse is about. Syscourse falls into numerous topics. My partner primarily posts about respect and research into DID. Is it wrong of them to do so? I don’t think it is. But that is still posting directly to the tags, directly to systems, and into the syscourse community.

I don’t think that’s wrong.

They can talk about their experiences and how somethings do affect them, in the case is talking only experiences like I don't think that count as syscourse, and I also don't know that singlet's post so I can't really talk a lot about that

They talk about my experiences more. They ask I preview their posts but I wish they wouldn’t; I’ve never had to change a word beyond showing them how to tag things.

I’m not sure why you don’t count it as syscourse when it blatantly is from my perspective. As always, a debate boils down to a difference in definitions. You’re clearly defining syscourse as something other than “a tag on tumblr (or on other social media, but for this conversation, tumblr) that is dedicated to discussions about system discourse.” Anyone can have a discussion.

We also have singlet friends who are normally involved and affected into syscourse or system like topics, but they recognize entering to syscourse isn't right

I wonder how much of that is because their friend puts posts out explaining how awful it is for singlets to post in syscourse…

I encouraged my partner to make a blog because they’ve helped me so much to understand my own systemhood. I needed their perspective to be where I am now. Non-nuanced posts like yours lead singlets to avoid these spaces and systems to believe that’s a good thing. That’s what I was fighting against.

Don't get what you're saying here except you like to do the same shit you claim I do lol, also wtf is "The Other Side"??

Okay, let me explain in more depth then:

I saw your very non-nuanced post and thought, “God, not this shit again. We see this constantly. I do not have spoons or energy to explain yet again, in detail, all of the reasons this is wrong. So I’m going to respond with sarcasm, since that’s easier, and explain how they are wrong that way.” This wasn’t lacking nuance; it was just a different way of tackling a lack of energy.

My response to you was brief — there’s nothing wrong with low energy posts, and I’m not sure where you got that from in my response. The issue is over generalizing your ideas in such a way as to demonize A Side — the “Other Side.” In these spaces, there’s always two sides in the debate: Your Side, and the Other Side. I sit in a nebulous “both sides” nearly at all times, and it often seems like your posts are trying that — but in this case, Your Side is Systems In Syscourse and the Other Side is Singlets in Syscourse. One is right and one is wrong, one is black and the other is white, and there’s no swaying your opinion.

You saw a post from the Other Side — a singlet in syscourse or someone supporting singlets in syscourse — and it pissed you off enough to post a non-nuanced vaguepost. If you wanted to use low energy while keeping the nuance, you could’ve said, “Posts like X piss me off because it doesn’t feel like OP has enough experience with systems to participate.” But given that your whole issue is just… singlets having a DNI on their posts or a stance on their blog (based on the OG post you mentioned,) it came across as “Singlets having any opinion about system stuff online is bad.”

Combine that with a non-nuanced “singlets aren’t allowed to syscourse” blanket statement, and that’s what I have issue with.

Does that make more sense?

Didn't say that, if you understand that is a you problem, what I did meant to say it's you can engage but don't do it in a way that isn't outside a third eye perspective, the topics aren't about you, you might be affected to them but aren't about you, so the best if you wanna enter is to doing in a respectful way

Okay, so this wasn’t clear due to how non-nuanced your original post was. If you wanted to say this, then you should’ve said it. If you didn’t have the energy to say it, then don’t fucking post it. You need to be clear about your words. Like, let’s refresh ourselves on what you said:

When you're directly affected by that is obvious that you can have an opinion, and ofc it's gonna impact your online life if it impacts your irl live, but because of that it doesn't mean singlets should be actively entering in syscourse/system topics

“That doesn’t mean singlets should be actively entering syscourse/system topics” has become “If you want to enter syscourse topics, you need to do so in a specific way and be respectful.” Do you understand how different these two things are? Do you understand how it’s not a “me” problem when I am literally reading the words in front of me as they are?

They're not affected in the same way a system would be affected, they can be affected ofc, we said that in the post, read it again please, so yeah, dk what you want us to say in this part

What I want you to explain is how they are not affected the same was a system is affected. Because from my experience, they are.

I am stressed out by syscourse. So is my fiancé. I am triggered by syscourse. So is my fiancé. I have insights into systemhood and how it impacts both me and those around me, and so does my fiancé. In all of your responses, you’ve still failed to address that discrepancy; why should singlets not participate?

The most you’ve said is “they aren’t affected the same way,” but that’s so nebulous and uncertain and denotes nothing. My partner is affected in the same way! I don’t understand why you won’t take my word for that through all of this.

It's obvious people are gonna have other things outside their professions, that's common knwoledge genius, again, I don't get your point in somethin so obvious that you can't make out

“I don’t get your point.” My point is, there are so many therapists and medical professionals who participate in syscourse, which goes against your original claim. I’m uncertain how you missed that. Maybe it’s because you just flat out blocked SAS’s response about that topic? They spoke at length about those medical professionals. I would suggest reading that blocked reblog for some more perspective.

I'm not even gonna try to talk about the other things you say because it's just nonsence shit and you justwanting to attack me or shit like that, you're simply being someone inmature and I see you really open to civil talk, the main point of the blog here

“I’m not even going to try and address your other points because you’re just attacking me and immature, and I’m only interested in civil talk”

Pray tell, the other points I made are attacking you? How? I saw it as attacking your position. We’ve already discussed the “civility” thing (people are allowed to be mad, get used to it) but I see nowhere where I attacked you. I may have used some insulting language (I think I called your beliefs absurd at one point, so I could see how that would upset someone) but that doesn’t mean I wasn’t civil.

(The other points, for context, were further examples where singlets would have a place in these conversations, including final fused systems who choose to identify as singlets; these points are evidently attacking them.)

And I saw your posts, you don't care about breaking others boundaries, if you do that online what can I expect you do irl? Or you're just a incongruent hypocrite like you say I am? You don't want to engage in anythig real but hate and attack, and you see pround about that, or at least you don't see that as a real problem when it is, you're just bein an inmature hater

You mean my one post I’ve made, across around 7 years of syscourse at this point, saying I don’t really listen to DNIs anymore because they’re simply used to avoid discussion and spread misinformation?

Welcome to Ad Hominem, by the way! Why does what I do in my regular life matter? Why was that relevant to this discussion? (It’s not; it’s moralizing about me to try and demonize me because oof ouchie my words hurt your fee fees >;). To that point; I have written numerous posts about respect, understanding the other perspective, and the understanding of consent. I teach in my regular life how boundaries are vital and that students need to set boundaries with their teachers and parents, especially as a traumatized individual who lacked boundaries.

What do you do?

don't have time for inmature people like you and that's why mid reblog I just gave up because people like you can't appeal to civil disccusion which, again, is what this blog is about. And even with almost no boundarie and DNI you still manage to break it, I'm impressed in a bad way

Again. “Civility” is being defined by you were very differently than by me. Hilarious.

For me you're just a little hypocrite hater inmature and a bad person, other people might not see you as a bad person? Good for them, I don't fucking care, you care that I see you as a bad person? It's a you problem that I couldn't care less, you see me as a bad person? Good for you, it's the lastthing I would care tbh

I have to be perfectly honest, I can’t interpret this.

It seems like you just calling me an immature bad person? Not sure how that’s relevant to the discussion. We’ve just resorted to playground name calling it seems.

I really do not care if you see me as a bad person, and I certainly don’t see you as one. Not really sure where that came from, to be honest. What a non sequitur.

I can't have a real talk with someone like you so this "talk" ends up here, if you respond with another repost I'll just ignore it and block you, I recommend you ignoring me from now on, or if it helps your black hater heart block me, demostrate you can be mature shall we?

“If you reblog” (not repost, we use different language on tumblr) “I’ll ignore you and block you, or you can be mature and block me first.”

…

You still haven’t blocked me ._. ? Like. Okay, you know you don’t have to wait, right? You could’ve done so at any time.

I haven’t blocked you because I don’t feel the need; I enjoy conversations and the ability to see other perspectives. It’s just that your perspective is unclear. You’ve still not explained any differences that would necessitate that singlets not participate in syscourse, whereas I’ve explained in each of my posts situations where singlets would be welcomed. A vague “it doesn’t affect them” isn’t enough.

But sure; please feel free to block me and have any sort of opinion about me. Lord knows you’re not going to be remembered. The amnesia does that to me lol.

Have a good day!

[zukoshotleafjuice]

Katara and Aang’s devotion and commitment to one another is the reason why we ship them romantically. Kataang shippers are the only ones writing content that highlights their bond while everyone else ignores it in favor of other ships. Just because YOU prefer it platonically and want to analyze their scenes as a friendship (which you can? No one is stopping you?) doesn’t mean you can control how others interpret their scenes. If shipping is about harmless fun why are you upset that people view all their scenes through a romantic light? That’s literally what shipping is? Everyone in the fandom does it with their ships and all of the major ships are overwhelmingly viewed through a romantic context, canon or not. It seems like you’re just upset that the show went a romantic direction with Kataang because you prefer them platonically. Naturally it makes sense that two people who are each other’s person would eventually explore this bond romantically (though they should’ve been older).

First of all, take a deep breath. My post was fundamentally an appreciation of Katara and Aang's relationship, so frankly I fail to understand the level of defensiveness I'm reading in this ask.

Yes, my post contained minor critique of shipping culture and the way that their relationship was written in the show. I can elaborate below if you require me to clarify.

When I said the romance detracts from the relationship, it was a criticism of fandom engagement with all the ATLA and specifically the way stans of every ship use ship-wars as an excuse to hate on and detract from their very real connection. I think Kataang's romantic scenes in the show were not compellingly written. They did not give them enough time in the second half of S3 to properly engage with and discuss their relationship. I agree they should've been older, and I think their relationship makes a lot of sense as they age up. However, the writers of this show were more interested in resolving the shipping clashes and creating 'canon' endings than anything else, so they rushed the story in the show itself.

Due to this, the ship-wars only intensified. This has led to incredibly bad-faith interpretations of key scenes in the show. For example, I have seen people engage the Southern Raiders (an episode fundamentally about Katara and Katara's trauma) solely to further one ship over another. This bothers me because it is simply poor media analysis.

My post was more of a critique of the Zvt*ra (censored only so that it doesn't clog the tags) side of the fanbase, and not yours, actually. But frankly, your defensive response is why it's so incredibly difficult to engage with this fandom. Assuming I'm 'hating' and just 'upset that people view their scenes in a romantic light' is, once again, detracting from the fact that my post was ultimately to highlight the incredibly beautiful and interesting relationship between these two characters.

[guckies]

about people being upset about how Bad gives a ton of stuff and never gives anything in return, it’s definitely something you’d only really pick up on and be upset about if you watched his pov a lot. Yeah people are being kind of dramatic about it, but a lot of people in the server (in rp of course) seem to only seem to think of him as the guy who gives them things or the guy that was awful in purgatory (when in reality he genuinely wasnt much worse than a lot of other players)

I think it’s similar to how foolish fans constantly talk about how people (again only in rp) call him a bad father, when in reality it really doesn’t happen that often, and as far as I know it’s always just been jokes. Like of course fans are gonna be dramatic about the things their fav streamer goes through, even if those things aren’t super evident to someone who doesn’t watch them often.

it’s really just a difference in perspective, but if people talking about how they’re happy Bad isn’t giving things away for free as much anymore is bothering you that much, you can always block them

I genuinely don’t mean to come across as aggressive or hating on you or anything, I just saw your post about it earlier and wanted to talk about my perspective 👍

It wasn’t that they were upset, rather they were using it as justification for Bad to have a villain arc (which imo is lazy and there are way better reasons or ways for Bad to have a villain arc).

As well this “struggle” is not exclusive to Bad. Like during the cookie quests arc, Morning crew were the ones that put most of the extra items or mobs there for everyone. Especially Phil who had a lot of ingredients and stuff they needed that he did gave even on days he didn't stream. But there are so many instances in which people give for free and don't recieve acknowledgement.

I totally get being happy that Bad isn’t giving everything away for free, been the same with the ccs I watch too. But calling Bad the only good guy for doing that and saying he needs a villain arc over something so stupid that no one asked him to is questionable. Especially when it was/is not exclusive to him and their are so many cooler ways for him to have that villain arc.

But also I'm not saying y'all shouldn't be happy about Bad not giving stuff because I also am happy he's not giving stuff away for free(personally love watching the struggle people go through looking for things). Rather just not give him this massive praise for it when it is universal experience they all face. Cause my increased annoyance is with some fans more specifically ghosties who act as if their cc is the only one that experiences these "problems" or just don't watch anyother pov so instead amplify the "problems" that don't exist or affect everyone.

And I get what you’re trying to say with fans being dramatic because some of them really are. However, it’s definitely not similar to Foolish getting called a bad father at all. Since doozers had to make a whole thread that we still refer to now to infrom people that have never watched Foolish & Leo clips ever and just hate Foolish and believe that Foolish is a bad parent over the jokes Bad or Fit have made. (Which we are so sick of because how is it 9 months in and we’re still discussing Foolish’s parenting which has been nothing but good)

Also not going to talk about purgatory because to me he was a bad guy and should have faced lore consequences for some of the stuff he did but that is neither here nor there so ✋🫥🤚

But yeah I already do block people for things I just don't agree with but also I like talking about things that include criticism so if people don't agree with me then I encourage them to block me too. Also thanks for being nice about it, cause this isn't really the biggest deal for me but I do like the discussion of these things sometimes :]

[funhouse-mirror-barbie]

(This is a reply to this post) @savagepassion well, I’m Christian and was raised in a Christian community and church. Where I live, Christianity is open—it’s not a closed practice. I know that many sects of Christianity want to convert more people to the practice. I don’t know the exact religious practices of all the creators and writers for HH and HB, but I believe a creator has gone on record as saying that Hh and HB are how she has explored her religious trauma (could be wrong, will have to see if I can confirm that). (Reply continues below)

This means they’re making a story reflecting on their own culture and religion. Doing so doesn’t mean that people can’t criticize them for this and it doesn’t mean that other people from that culture can’t also be frustrated with this and criticize the portrayal of their religion.

My main issue isn’t with a religion being depicted in a way that deviates from that religions’ canon—mainly I don’t think it’s good for someone outside of a religion (ESPECIALLY a closed practice) or culture to use whatever they want from that culture without taking the time to understand the significance or importance whatever they are taking has.

I will agree that this could also apply to Christianity, but specifically in places where it is a minority practice and culture. In a place or another culture where Christianity is demonized and Christians are or have been persecuted and have to practice privately or close their practice, then yeah. That could be dangerous.

But I’m from the US where Christianity is the vast majority and is open to all. Again I could be wrong, but I’m pretty sure the majority of the HH creative team are from the US, so there’s a good chance they also grew up in Christianity and are depicting their own culture. I don’t personally have an issue with aspects of Christianity being discussed and explored and fictionalized b/c my religion is open, and where I’m from it’s the dominant religion, to the point where very few people actually dare to criticize it in some cases.

If a practitioner of Voudou or someone from within the various cultures that come from Voudou wanted to make a series or media about their own culture, that would be different. They would probably also get criticism from within their community for doing so, and that’s fair too. But that is a conversation for the members of /that/culture to have.

You can absolutely criticize Hazbin Hotel for using Christian mythology (and Im /not/ using the word “mythology” as an insult or to insinuate that Christianity is made up—pretty much all religions have mythos—it’s just the word used to describe the stories that make up the history of a religion—whether or not you believe in that mythology as being factual or fiction is up to you). That’s a normal thing to do, and if you’re Christian and are frustrated or upset by the way your religion is being portrayed those feelings are valid, and you are allowed to talk about it.

Regardless of all of that, I think there is a PROFOUND difference in someone taking parts of a minority closed culture and religious practice that has been previously maligned, demonized, and racially discriminated against, for their own uses, and someone examining and criticizing the majority beliefs and opinions of their own culture and religion.

Also this is as surface level as I could get with this reply, there’s a lot more to go into specifically about the racism (general and institutional/systematic) that is a part of this, as well as the MAIN thing that bothers me—black people, and black practitioners of Voudou who are a part of the minority culture in this case have been speaking out about their culture being used inappropriately, and have been largely ignored or shouted down by fans of Hazbin. Apparently the creator has also been blocking them as well?

The whole thing really reeks of cultural appropriation and racism, regardless of if that was ever the intent or not. It’s just been handled really poorly by the creative team and the fandom and I genuinely don’t understand it.

Final note—it’s very frustrating to hear “what about (X tangentially related thing)????” when talking about these issues. My original post wasn’t talking about Christianity, and “but what about Christianity?” doesn’t need to be a part of this conversation. Bringing it up and talking about it definitely diverted some attention away from my initial point on my original post.

But. I genuinely love talking about religion and religious studies—I minored in religious studies and think religion and spirituality can be a beautiful thing—and the ways religion impacts and intertwines with human culture is very interesting.

So I mean. Nah.

But also yah, because the world is huge and complex and what applies to one place does not necessarily apply to the whole world and nothing is ever in a vacuum.

But also. Like. Nah.

[sleepingdeath-light]

Re: an anonymous hate message I just received

as a forewarning for anyone who might read this, below the cut are some pretty awful statements and foul language directed towards me from this anonymous individual. these accusations are why i’m placing my full response under the cut.

but as a tl;dr — someone says awful and upsetting things, death is rightfully upset.

I’m also assuming that this individual is coming from the ‘toh’ fandom based on their statements — which is incredibly disappointing but oh well.

This is the complete message, which I will be breaking down and responding to point by point — so you can see that I’m not editing it to mince anon’s words.

now let’s get on to the breakdown.

————

INTRODUCTION

I’m sure that I don’t need to tell anyone that this isn’t a good way of introducing your point. Right? If anon is trying to get me on their side or show themselves to be a sympathetic or genuinely concerned person then this is going about it the wrong way entirely. You’re immediately presenting yourself as antagonistic and making yourself not likeable as a speaker.

But don’t worry it gets worse.

————

POINT ONE

They’re not real people, anon, they’re fictional characters. It’s effectively the same as when you take two dolls and make them kiss (as I’m sure most kids did at some point).

I draw the line at rpf or at sexual fiction of characters played by real children/real minors because that’s way too far. For example, smut of the IT (2017?) cast is vile to me in concept and execution.

What you’re talking about is me writing about drawings — lines/pixels with a voice actor — being in sexual situations. Fictional characters can be aged up because they’re, by definition, not real.

And besides you’re definitely in the minority opinion here as the vast majority of requests in my inbox are for hunter. Don’t you think that says something?

————

POINT TWO

Ah yes, non-con. That old beast. Its a dead dove topic and whenever I or another writer in my circle depicts it, it’s done with plenty of explicit warnings about the contents therein.

Again this is fictional content we’re talking about. Dark fiction has always been a thing and will always be a thing.

I’m taking a literature course at uni and we discuss media depicting rape and worse regularly because it’s part of literature. Writing about something doesn’t mean the writer condones that act and you shouldn’t make assumptions of character based on what someone writes.

That’s like critical media analysis 101 — you sound like you’d go after whump writers and call them murder fetishists or something lol. You’re just really not helping your case AT ALL.

Fiction is fiction; repeat until you understand that principle.

————

POINT THREE

Anon has a good point here, actually! Like their phrasing was terrible and accusatory, but if they’d led with this I’d probably be open to discussion. But burying it beneath two accusations and two insults (at minimum) isn’t going to make someone want to actually discuss the error of the system they’re using.

Of course I’m aware that people lie on the internet. I’m not an idiot — we’ve all clicked on the ‘yes I’m 18+’ pop up on dodgy sites before. I’m also aware that most smart minors will lie about their age to begin with because putting anything smaller than ‘18’ in your bio/pinned is basically a bright flashing neon sign shouting that this person is easy prey for a nonce or something along those lines.

Similarly the use of anon is dodgy and the trust system I use with requesters can easily be taken advantage of.

But what you’re incorrect about is that if I have proof of someone telling me that they’re an adult then I will not be at fault for what happens. If a minor lies to get access to an adult space and gets hurt, then that minor is liable for their own hurt — which is unfortunate but inevitable.

I’m not going to force people to give me their government issued I.Ds because I’m not a complete nutter. That would be dangerous for everyone involved and also probably doxxing. Which is, again, a big no-no.

So for as unfortunately dumb as it is, I’m going to be sticking with the honour system for requests for now. If I find a better, safer way then I’ll use that — but as we don’t have that yet, I’ll use what I’ve got available to me.

Thanks for pointing it out though! Like genuinely this is the only good part of this message lol.

————

SEND OFF

You’re already accusing me of being a nonce mate — and over fiction, at that. And to add to it all you didn’t have the gonads to do it off-anon, which is unfortunate but inevitable of this sort of person. And besides you know nothing of my tastes and attractions based on the requests I write.

To be perfectly frank out of all the characters from TOH, I’m only attracted to Belos and Alador. Most of the ‘characters’ that I end up attracted to are played by people much older than me and, also, not cartoons! Like most slashers, the avengers, and hell even Pierce Brosnan in Black Addam lol.

But that’s irrelevant. You shouldn’t come in to random people’s ask boxes accusing them of horrible things and speaking so cruelly. And if you ever do this in the future I’d recommend having the confidence in your statements to do it off anon. Or admit that your opinions are clearly in the minority.

Oh! And as a final note: no this wasn’t ignored and deleted, you got a full response. But you’re right that I don’t care, because you’re spouting complete and utter nonsense.

But oh well, since you want to be deleted so bad, I hope you enjoy your block. Have a wonderful day, anon. I hope you learn to be a better person : )

And to anyone that’s read this far: thank you for your time. I hope you all have a wonderful rest of your day /gen. ^^

[padawansuggest]

I've been thinking about your discussion on AO3 comments and have a suggestion (but please ignore if you are sick of talking about it). It might be helpful to include a note on your fics with something along the lines of 'if you want to leave a comment, please tell me something specific to this chapter/fic. I strongly prefer not to recieve generic comments or emojis.' Readers are more likely to engage and less likely to get upset if you can tell them what sort of feedback you do want, rather than just what not to do, particularly when they recieve conflicting advice elsewhere.

No. I’m sorry but no. That’s not how this works either. (Btw I mean this politely, I don’t hate you for this, I’m just clarifying where I stand.)

I told them what I don’t want. That should be enough because clearly they have opinions if any of them are commenting things other than that. I don’t. Give. A. Fuck. If they comment or not. You can go by reading my stuff for years without commenting, I don’t hate people for that. You are not required to comment on my stuff. No one is. But the ones who give genuine comments? I’d rather those just be the only comments.

I’m not gonna tell them the categories of what I do want them to talk about. I have met people who started off talking about the fic or maybe just jumped right into something this reminds them of or gave them an idea for. I’ve talked to people who comment on a bad situation I might be having recently and could use some support on.

And you know what? None of them were ever rude and dismissed the fic. But even so, that doesn’t bother me. You’re allowed to talk to me about just about anything except criticism (because I don’t care if you don’t like my fic, just don’t read it then) and I don’t feel like limiting them to one single topic is on brand for me.

I told them don’t do a comment that consists entirely of emojis. I said no comments that says ‘chapter kudos’ and that’s IT. I said no comments that you comment on ever chapter of every fic you read ever (and no I’m not fucking stalking those commenters some of them have been following me for years and giving me the same exact comment to every fic and chapter I post and it’s starting to piss me off like just shut up I don’t care if you read it or not you already kudos’d it) because it’s so. Insincere.

These are the types of people that brag that they comment on EVERY fic they ever read. But are you??? You didn’t say fuckin anything man. I wish you hadn’t. And the resin why they do damn mad at me lately it because I said ‘hey. Stop it’ so now they either have to come up with a real genuine comment on the fic, or lose their bragging rights as someone who ‘comments on every chapter of every fic they read’.

I told them what not to do. That’s more than enough. I don’t even care if they never give me a comment again, I’d rather that than the echo chamber of death that my emails turned into before I told people to stop.

[basiliskinmybed]

hi, you don’t need to post a response to this. just read it at least please. sorry this is long, i’m not going to send you hate or a bunch of angry messages like you might be getting, i just want to share my opinion with you. i thought it was interesting that you mentioned KBS (the fanfic, not sure if the author wants it in this conversation or not so i’m abbreviating the name). the cultish behavior that harry disapproved of in the story also included spreading negativity about the work of authors who really didn’t ask for it in a community that also did not really ask for it. i think that is where people were upset with you, because it opened a conversation of mocking what other people like under the guise of criticism/personal preferences. sort of similar to the people sharing hate in that story’s discord server under the guise of trolling or that it’s okay because they are just opinions. i know this wasn’t your intention, and i’m very sure you just meant your original post as a little bit of fun to talk about something that has been sitting on your mind for some time. these are just your opinions and you can have them, but i think it was just the way that you went about it which irritated people. although not your intention, it did come across a bit mean-spirited and inconsiderate, and it did seem like you shaded something that is very well-liked in this little fandom. this will draw criticism towards yourself and your opinion just from the very nature of the conversation as it is quite negative to discuss things you dislike, and tagging the main ship tags opens that dialogue to many who likely don’t want to see that. many people here seem to have come from fandoms where drama was non-stop over silly things like this, just topics that spiral out of control until people’s feelings get hurt and nasty things get said that aren’t necessary. it’s actually really stupid and very juvenile but unfortunately that’s what it is, and i think that’s why people didn’t want you to start a conversation like that so publicly.. it invites people to spread negativity about things that others find enjoyable and people argue about it. especially leading up to tom’s birthday which is supposed to be a fun time in the fandom, full of amazing creative content from everyone.. a conversation like this circling might make people insecure over what they planned to post. so sorry again about this being so long, you might completely disagree with me and that’s okay. i just wanted to explain to you without it needing to be public necessarily or make you feel like you’re being ganged up on. i really hope you don’t let this situation heavily affect your view on the fandom or the ship itself, i know it’s selfish of me to wish but you might find some that do agree with your opinions, meaning that it’s not like everyone hates you (and unfortunately, there is no community that is forever positive without arguments). i hope you have a nice rest of your week and that this situation doesn’t give you further anxieties or troubles <3 take care!

Hi. So, about KBS, if i recall it correctly, that discord service in the story was talking shit behind the auhors' back and harry, they were talking about how pathetic he's, i remember how that made him frustrated and sad. i didn't do that, there was nothing against anyone. not everyone may like my attitude in the original post, but i didn't intend to do harm or wasn't even serious while making it. however, they attacked me, called me slurs, sended many anon hates. that's why i thought my situation was similar to the story, because i'm overwhelmed by the pressure like him. someone even said, '"...and the author has more talent in their little finger than you will ever have in your sad little life, going by all the insecurity, bitterness, and discourtesy that you're spewing here." don't you think they took it too far for no reason? for nothing? and now they're gonna say i'm playing the victim like it's all my fault and deserve all of it. lovely. i'm human too, if they only thought it as much as they think "what would author feel?" just because i said their work is not for me. thank you for being kind though, i appreciate that and see your points. and lastly, i don't think there's a single thing in this world that would make me hate tomarrymort, let alone for something petty like this. :)

[cf56]

This is going to be rude and blunt, but I’m afraid I don’t know how else to say it. If you miss the point this time, it won’t be on me. You keep getting hung up thinking that people just don’t like what you’re saying. That the problem for others is your opinions on Season 3. That’s not it. You are overly invested in the show as a whole, and that has taken center stage. I’m not saying this to make you change that part, but how you use that information in the context of these discussions. Being mentally ill, neurodivergent, or anything of the sort does not mean that you or your takes are exempt from criticism. Also you’re not the only one who falls under that umbrella in the fandom. And I’m sorry, but the responses I’ve seen to your posts recently do not qualify as you being marginalized. That’s not even close. It frankly makes it look like your trying to play the victim. Bottom line is, your opinions are fine, though they could stand to be under ‘Read More’s so they don’t clutter the tag. The reasoning behind them, is what keeps throwing me for a loop. I don’t mean this maliciously, but please seek therapy. From one invested fan to another, that kind of attachment is not healthy.

Well, you were right about it being rude.

I have never made the claim that my takes are exempt from criticism. In fact, I’ve clearly said the opposite many times. My replies and askbox are always open. I’ve debated with someone, maybe even you, on this topic through my asks, and I never got angry at them for speaking up against me. I don’t care about people disagreeing with me. I care about people getting upset about me expressing my thoughts at all. I have a right to do so. Everyone does. You’re not obligated to read what I say or put any value in it at all. I’m just some random schmuck on the internet. In your other ask, you asked why I was so invested in Animaniacs. I answered. Why did you assume that I meant that to be a shield from criticism? It was just the truth.

When I browse the tag, on desktop, all the long posts are partially hidden anyway under “expand” banners. If you don’t want to see my opinions on this, all relevant posts are tagged “#animaniacs episode 8”. Block that tag. Block me for all I care. For the record, there is no way to “read more” when you make a post on mobile, which is usually how I respond to asks that don’t need pictures.

It doesn’t sound to me like you think my opinions are fine. You say the reasoning behind them throws you for a loop. Okay, that’s fine. However, I have thoroughly explained the reasoning behind all my opinions. It’s not as if I’m screeching into the void with no explanation behind it. Again, I make maybe two or three posts a day. I’ve made six total self-posts that are negative about season three. If you can’t handle that, it’s on you. Only you. You claim that I’m the one who’s too invested in this show. I would say, if reading opinions you don’t agree with on Animaniacs gets you this worked up, maybe you should take a look in the mirror first.

Bottom line, I’ll be invested in this show as I damn well please. No one had a single problem with it before I started to share opinions they didn’t like.

[newspropaganda]

Man, you're really a joke if you can't reply with a proper text and good arguments instead of lame memes or accusing people taking drugs. I've seen a lot of weird people in the ygo community but you really are up there with the special weirdos. It's funny when you criticize everyone just loving DM and not caring for the spin offs when you shittalk every spin off besides 5D's. And if anyone dares to say that 5D's had flaws, you insult them and go "wah wah, America bad, y'all woke shit" and throwing a tantrum like a child like wtf? That has nothing to do with ygo? Seriously, Idk what's wrong with you but maybe you do need some therapy because all the hatred and borderline racism from you is really not good. Also you say everyone is just about politics when *you* are the one bringing it up in almost every reply/post. Double standards much?

Oh, wow, what a refreshing take! It’s like you reached into the bargain bin of internet arguments and pulled out every cliché possible. Let’s go through this step-by-step because clearly, you’ve got a lot on your mind (or whatever’s occupying that space).

1. "Lame memes or accusing people of taking drugs"

So, you’re upset about memes? Really? In a world where people are tearing apart card games, shows, and fandoms with hot takes, you’re stuck on memes like they’re some new-age evil? Look, memes are the universal language of the internet, pal. If you can’t handle a little humor, I’m not sure how you even survive out there. And “accusing people of taking drugs”? That’s your interpretation. If my comments leave you feeling like you’re living in an alternate reality, maybe it’s not my words you should be worrying about. Get that checked.

2. "I criticize people who love DM but hate spin-offs besides 5D's"

Oh, this again. I criticize Duel Monsters fans for worshipping one series like it’s the gospel of Yu-Gi-Oh!, and suddenly that’s a crime? Here’s a wild thought: maybe it’s because I have something called a preference. Just because you’re out here clinging to your childhood nostalgia with a death grip doesn’t mean I’m going to pretend every series besides 5D’s is garbage just to make you feel better. Newsflash: people can like 5D’s and still criticize other shows. Shocking, I know.

3. "Throwing a tantrum when anyone critiques 5D's"

Critique 5D’s all you want; I don’t care. It’s not the critique that gets to me—it’s the lazy, baseless drivel that people like you spew without backing it up. “Oh, 5D’s isn’t that good.” Okay, and? What’s your grand argument besides parroting whatever the cool kids on the internet say? If you want to have a real discussion, bring something to the table other than “wah wah.” Otherwise, spare me the generic takes.

4. "Wah wah, America bad, woke shit"

Ah, yes, the ol’ “you’re talking about woke stuff” argument. You pulled that one out faster than a Dark Magician from a Yugi deck. If by “woke” you mean I call out the garbage in certain places or fandoms, sure, I guess I’m “woke.” But here’s the fun part: if you spent half the time actually understanding what I’m saying instead of labeling it with your buzzwords, maybe you’d actually learn something. Maybe the real tantrum is coming from the person who just can’t handle a different opinion. Hint: it’s not me.

5. "America bad has nothing to do with YGO"

Oh, sweet summer child. Everything affects everything in the world of fandoms, media, and culture. If you think Yu-Gi-Oh! and the environment it’s consumed in exist in some vacuum, you’re more out of touch than I thought. Why don’t you sit down and reflect on how different regions influence how media is perceived? Or would that hurt your brain too much? The fact that you can’t see the bigger picture is exactly why you’re stuck on these shallow arguments. Yu-Gi-Oh! is influenced by the people, the players, the cultures—it’s all connected.

6. "I need therapy because of my hatred and racism"

Ah, the classic “you need therapy” line. Let’s take a moment to appreciate how original and insightful that is. You know, maybe I do need therapy, but not for the reasons you think. I might need it just to tolerate reading through this nonsense without losing brain cells. As for the “hatred” and “racism” bit—nice try. It’s easy to throw around those words when you’re grasping at straws. If you’re going to accuse someone of that, at least have the decency to back it up. Otherwise, it’s just you shouting into the void because you don’t have a real argument.

7. "I bring up politics in every post"

You say I’m the one bringing up politics all the time, yet here you are, crying about it like it’s the biggest offense of the century. If you weren’t so obsessed with pigeonholing every comment I make as political, maybe we could actually have a decent conversation about the topic at hand. But nah, keep going with your “double standards” nonsense. The only double standard here is you accusing me of bringing up politics while you drag it into every argument like you’re on a crusade to save the fandom from differing opinions.

Oh, you wanna talk trash, huh? Well, lemme break it down for you Steiner Math style, because clearly, you didn’t come here to debate—you came here to embarrass yourself! And trust me, I’m gonna be the one to do it for you! So buckle up, buddy, because this is about to get mathematical!

You see, there’s 100% of people in the Yu-Gi-Oh! community, but you? You represent that bottom 1%. The kinda people who think they know something, but in reality, you don’t even have a fraction of the knowledge to back up your lame claims! You take 33 and a third percent of your weak arguments, then you add another 66 and two-thirds percent of your ignorance, and what does that give you? 99% pure delusion!

Now, I know what you’re thinking. “I made a valid point! I can criticize him!” But listen, you only got a 25% chance of making any sense, because every time you open your mouth, you lose 75% of your credibility. And that’s being generous! Let’s be honest—you don’t even understand 5D’s let alone the franchise, which means you got zero percent chance of having a real argument.

But wait, there’s more! You stack your lack of self-awareness on top of your nonsensical takes, and you think you’re gonna come out on top? You gotta multiply that by the square root of "I don’t know what I’m talking about!" Now that leaves you with negative IQ points in this argument. You’re so far in the negatives, I gotta use advanced calculus just to figure out where your logic went wrong!

And if we’re talking about how bad you miscalculated, let’s get into your success rate in making a coherent argument. You got a 50% chance of saying something halfway decent, but that’s only if you didn’t subtract 50% of that from your constant whining about politics that nobody asked for. By the end of it, you’re left with zero percent, which means all you’re doing is wasting everyone’s time with that trash tier drivel.

Now I take my 110% brain power—which is, quite frankly, way above your average IQ level of zero—and I dropkick your ridiculous post right outta the conversation! Why? Because I’ve got a 141 and two-thirds percent chance of winning this argument, and the numbers don’t lie, they spell disaster for you!

So in closing, the only thing you got left is a 100% chance of getting shut down, a 99% chance of not understanding a single thing I said, and an absolute zero chance of being relevant in any fandom ever again. That’s Steiner Math, and you just failed it, pal!

Now get outta here before you lose the last 1% of your dignity!

//In the End It Has To Be This Way///

The Yu-Gi-Oh Fandom: Why won't you shut the fuck up?

Me: Anger and Rage, Son.

[deanstudies101]

4x11, Family Remains

Critical theory: Horror, genre/genre-expectations. Hell. Trauma. [The first time I watched this one it genuinely terrified me.] 

Discussion point/question(s): Why does Dean care so much? 

Key quotes:  Brian asking Dean, “Why do you care so much?”; Sam, “I’m sure her life was hell, Dean. It doesn’t mean she gets a free pass for murder.” Dean, “Like you know what hell’s like.” 

Discussion: 

That family should sue the surveyors for real. 

Dean is constantly doing jobs to save people to make up for what he did in hell, and also to take his mind off what he did. He was really upset when he had to kill the brother. He wanted to save them. [He did. He related to them. He wants to prove that you can be saved. He’s been saved but he doesn’t believe it—and the angels keep threatening to send him back! On a trauma level that’s horrendous. He’s been through the worst trauma imaginable, and the person who ‘saved’ him keeps telling him he can make it happen again.] And, sure, he got saved from hell, but surely he believes that he’ll go back when he dies. He’s trying to balance the scales, but doesn’t believe he can balance them. [Is that… Constantine?] People aren’t supposed to go to hell and then come back from hell and then just. Live with it. But Dean is a special little boy, so he just has to live with the consequences. And he was taken out almost at the worst moment? He was in the becoming evil part (he was enjoying torturing people), but hadn’t crossed the line into not being human any more. He still cares. He has to live with the guilt. Bro didn’t even eat the burger he was too sad.

Why are American houses built like that? You’re asking for people to live in your walls! Oh racoons are living in your walls? You built your walls to be a home for racoons. 

Very stereotypical haunted house ghost type deal. The stereotypical ghost house, American family etc. Boy with a dog, teenage daughter who hates the countryside, parents who are trying to make it work. [They set up the genre expectations to break them.] Didn’t expect the brother plot twist. Wasn’t pulled out of nowhere, but was a surprise. [When I first watched this, the not-ghost twist really got me! I didn’t see it coming and it was like… You buy into the whole salt protects, they're safe in the circle, to have that challenged. It got me!][also "somone living in the walls/in the house is just generally a big fear of mine.] To be fair I prepared them with “genre expectations.” 

Notes: Visiting student Julio. The other day Iga said “Juice watches Supernatural in Spanish.” Which is true. Personally I believe that’s the best language to watch Supernatural in. 

[jaehyunfirstlove]

You decide you’re ready to have a baby. The catch? You’re not seeing anyone at the moment. Enter your best friend, Jeong Jaehyun. Will he be the answer to your dilemma?

Pairing: best friend!Jaehyun x f.reader

Genre: best friends to fwb to lovers, fluff, angst, smut (18+ only)

Warnings: mentions of infertility, pregnancy and childbirth, sperm donors, IVF (in vitro fertilization), fertility drugs, mood swings, fingering, unprotected sex, cum play, nipple play, breeding kink, oral sex (f.receiving), dirty talk, pregnant sex, rough sex

Word count: 10.6k

Taglist: @jaehyunnie77​ @mrg-jjh​ @keeach​ (send me a message if you want to be tagged in future fics)

A/N: this was only meant to be a short fic but it morphed into this monstrosity. I tried to tag for everything but if I missed anything please let me know. Inspired by the fact that Jaehyun wanted to be a teen dad (but they are not teens in this story, just thought I’d make that clear :) Also please excuse my unimaginative name for the baby, I’m terrible at coming up with names lol

Disclaimer: I am not a medical professional so please excuse any inconsistencies.

“So what have you got planned for today?” your best friend, Jaehyun, asked you as he took a sip of his coffee, shielding his eyes from the sun’s rays coming through the window of the cafe.

It was your weekly Saturday brunch, at which Jaehyun would show up, nine times out of ten, hungover, wearing dark sunglasses, a baseball cap, a black t-shirt and sweats. There was never a deviation from this outfit, even on the times when he came not hungover.

“Oh not much, just an appointment at the fertility clinic this afternoon.”

Jaehyun paused, as you took a sip of your latte. You couldn’t see the look in his eyes through the sunglasses but his fork had stopped midway to his mouth. It hovered in the air, scrambled eggs sliding off of it and plopping onto the plate below.

“The where?” he asked, tipping his head to look at you above the top of his sunglasses.

“Fertility clinic. Looking into getting a sperm donor.”

The matter-of-fact way you were saying everything seemed to shock him, his fork still not moving towards his mouth or back onto the plate.

“Excuse me, a sperm donor?”

You put your coffee cup down, and sighed. “I don’t know why you’re so shocked, I told you before I wanted to have a baby.”

“I thought you were joking!”

“Well I wasn’t!” you don’t know why you were being so indignant, maybe because all you’d heard from everyone around you, from your parents to your doctor to the lady that sold you pretzels from a street cart, was negative. You shouldn’t have a baby without a partner, was the main point of contention, but how was that going to happen if you weren’t seeing anyone, and hadn’t had a serious relationship in almost a year.

“But a sperm donor, Y/N?” he asked, after mulling over what you just said.

“Yeah? What’s wrong with it?” you countered. You were so sick of everyone around you criticizing your plan.

“I don’t know, what if he’s like, a serial killer or something?”

“They do psychiatric assessments on everyone who donates.”

“That doesn’t mean he doesn’t have an undiagnosed illness-”

“Oh for fuck’s sake, Jaehyun!” you’d had it, letting out an exasperated huff, “Do you have a better idea? Do you want to be my sperm donor?”

You weren’t at all serious, you were just mainly upset and unfortunately, taking it out on him, but he actually sat back in his chair, eyebrows raised, as if he were contemplating it.

“Anyway, forget it. I don’t need your approval. I just hoped that you’d support me, of all people.” You couldn’t help but pout. He was your best friend and he’d stuck with you when no one else had. You may have said you didn’t need his approval but deep down you wanted him to be on your side.

He leaned forward, took his sunglasses off and looked you in the eye. “Of course I support you,” he said sincerely. “If this is what you want, then I’m with you one hundred percent of the way.”

You smiled, your heart feeling lighter, and just as you took a sip of your latte he said the one thing that would complicate your life forever.

“But I get to be that sperm donor.”

You spluttered, almost choking on your latte. “I wasn’t being at all serious, Jaehyun,” you chuckled nervously, but one look at his face and you could see he was being completely serious.

“I just don’t like the idea of some stranger being the father of your child,” he said quietly, looking down at his plate of food while he said it, “might as well be me, right?” He looked up at you hopefully.

You didn’t know what to say. This was your best friend, the one you’d grown up with, the one you’d catch tadpoles with, the one you’d drag to the playground with you, the one you told all your innermost secrets to. The one who knew you best. Didn’t it make sense then, that he would be the one to share this with you, in the end? You looked at his face; open, sincere, beautiful. You knew he was attractive, with the trail of broken hearts he’d leave in his wake, but you hadn’t really looked at him in that way before. Suddenly he was a new person to you, and now you didn’t know how to feel.

“Jaehyun, I-” you rubbed your hands together nervously, still unsure of what to say, “it’s a big thing, you know? This will change the rest of your life.”

He nodded, but there was no trace of hesitation in his actions. In fact, he looked as sure as anything. “Yeah that’s a given. But I’ve thought about it and I’m ready.”

“Jaehyun, you’ve literally thought about it for, like, the few minutes we’ve been sitting here.”

He smiled, “Actually I’ve thought about it for a long time.”

“About being a sperm donor?”

He laughed. “No, not specifically a sperm donor. But it’s a start,” he shrugged. “So what do I have to do?”

---

Jaehyun accompanied you to the appointment at the fertility clinic, where they outlined the plan and what was required of the two of you. It didn’t sound too bad, but you did find that having Jaehyun there to support you was really helpful. Every time the doctor explained something that made you nervous you would look over at him and he would smile confidently at you, sometimes squeezing your hand if you looked particularly concerned.

It was the fertility drugs they gave you, that threw your world into chaos. They had warned you of the side effects but you didn’t think it would be this bad. Your mood swung back and forth like a pendulum, one moment you were happy, the next you were crying into your cereal. You were irritable more than you had ever been in your life, and constantly snapped at every little thing. Not to mention that your breasts were sore and you had nausea, making you feel like you were pregnant already. You felt bad for Jaehyun when he was around for your mood swings and irritable moments, but he handled it much better than you thought he would. He’d give you your space when you needed it, but also sit by your side when you didn’t want to be alone. You found yourself thinking about how he would be as a father, but then you would remember that he was just the sperm donor.

One day, when he was sitting beside you on the couch, rubbing your back after you’d cried over your coffee order being wrong, you ended up asking him how much he wanted to be involved.

“We didn’t talk about the ‘after’,” you said, still sniffling. He stopped rubbing your back and looked at you.

“What do you want the ‘after’ to look like?” He asked, his tone level and gentle.

You had visions of Jaehyun rocking the baby to sleep, of Jaehyun seeing the baby walk for the first time, of Jaehyun teaching your child how to ride a bike, piano lessons, soccer games, first day of school. The perfect family. Except he wasn’t your husband, he wasn’t even your boyfriend. You didn’t know what to ask of him.

“I don’t know,” you whispered. He went back to rubbing your back.

“I’ll be as involved as you want me to be,” he said softly, “my only request is that I get to be a part of their life.”

That sounded fair, you thought. This was certainly going to be more complicated than getting a stranger as a sperm donor.

---

You went through several cycles of IVF, but none had been successful and you were losing hope. Not to mention the fertility drugs were really taking a toll on you, and the doctor had recommended taking a break. You were devastated, seeing it as the end of your dream, no matter how much the doctor reassured you that it wasn’t.

“There has to be another solution,” you pleaded at one appointment. Jaehyun hadn’t accompanied you and you felt yourself falling apart without his presence.

“Well, of course there’s the surefire way,” the doctor shrugged.

“What’s that? I’ll do anything!” you were hopeful once again at the doctor’s words.

“Regular sexual intercourse.”

Of course, you thought bitterly. You couldn’t help but think this was society punishing you for doing this without a husband. Undeterred, you resolved to discuss it with Jaehyun.

---

The look on Jaehyun’s face when you broached the subject was one you had never seen on him before. It was a mixture of shock, terror, resignation, and… something else, almost like acceptance, as if this were the natural course of things.

You resolved not to make it weird, it was just sex after all, and you would get a baby out of it, and that was the most important thing. However, your palms still got sweaty at the thought of it, your heart racing imagining him naked. You’d gone swimming with him plenty of times, went on beach outings often, and you realized you’d always avert your eyes from his bare chest. You figured you were just doing it to be polite, but you had no trouble looking at other men’s chests (you were only human, after all). You shook your head of your thoughts, while waiting patiently for him to agree or disagree to your request.

“I know it’s weird,” you began, when he still hadn’t said anything, “but I promise it won’t change anything in our relationship.” You needed him to agree, and at this point you would say anything to convince him. He looked at you thoughtfully, before he nodded.

“Okay, I’m in.”

---

You’d been keeping track of your cycle and had the days you were ovulating marked on your calendar, which you had shared with Jaehyun. It was agreed that he would come to your place after work, where you would have sex in the hopes of making a baby.

The first night you were nervous, pacing your room as you waited for him to come over. When the doorbell rang you literally jumped out of your skin. When you opened the door you were relieved to see that he was nervous too, although he tried his best to hide it. He joked around with you, trying to keep the mood light, and you had to admit you appreciated it. But when you got to the bedroom, you both went quiet. Jaehyun stood at one end of the room and you stood at the other, the bed looming between you.

“Do you want me to turn around while you get undressed?” he asked awkwardly, and you realized you hadn’t thought through the details.

“Um, yeah, sure,” you replied, and when he turned around you hastily undressed and jumped under the covers. “Done,” you advised, and he turned around. He didn’t make a move though, just looking at you pointedly, until you realized and turned your head away. Once he was done undressing you felt him lift the covers and get into the bed with you, and you couldn’t stop your heart from hammering in your chest.

“Y/N,” he said softly, because you still hadn’t turned back to him. “Can I touch you?”

You bit your lip, still not looking his way, and nodded. His touch made you jolt, even though his hand was warm, the electricity you felt made all your nerve endings feel like they were on fire.

“Is this okay?” he asked, his hand moving tentatively across your stomach. You nodded but you realized you were panting already, and he had barely touched you. “Tell me if I do anything you don’t like,” he suddenly whispered in your ear, and then he was kissing your neck.

You weren’t prepared for the intimacy, you had really only thought about the intercourse part. You hadn’t prepared yourself for the kissing, and the touching, and how he was so good at making you feel good. You felt like you weren’t supposed to enjoy it, that it was supposed to be “just sex” because you were friends and you weren’t doing this because you loved each other, you were only doing it to have a baby. But the more he touched you, the more he kissed you, the more you fell under his spell. You felt like you should tell him to stop, to just get on with it, but you knew he was doing it to get you nice and wet and therefore more comfortable to take him.

His kisses started to move along your jaw, towards your lips, and when he was finally there, his lips on yours, you felt a panic bubble up in your chest. It was too intimate, too much for someone who wasn’t yours. You pulled away, and he looked at you in surprise.

“No kissing on the lips,” you managed to say, maybe that would be enough to keep it less intimate, you told yourself. He nodded without saying a word, his hand coming up to your breast.

“Is it okay if I touch you here?” he asked, his eyes on yours. You thought for a moment and decided it was okay, and when you nodded he cupped your breast tentatively, all the while watching you for your reaction. When you didn’t pull away he squeezed gently, rubbing your nipple with his thumb.

You pressed your lips together, trying to suppress a moan, because everything he was doing was making you feel so good. He kept watching your reaction, and when he was satisfied that you were reacting favorably he got bolder, his hand slipping down between your legs.

You yelped when he touched you there, your legs involuntarily closing and trapping his hand. He froze, looking at you with wide eyes.

“Sorry,” you apologized, flushing with embarrassment, “reflex reaction.”

“It’s okay,” he said softly, as you slowly opened up your legs again. He moved his hand slowly, gently, just rubbing the inside of your thigh. “You can relax, Y/N, I promise I won’t hurt you.” His words were soft, his tone gentle, and it did wonders to calm and soothe you.

You nodded, giving him the go-ahead, and he reached tentatively with his finger, just lightly touching your folds. The electricity you felt when he first touched you came back with a vengeance, and you almost melted right into the bed. Your reaction encouraged him though, and he pressed his finger further in, rubbing your wetness around. When he was satisfied with the state of your arousal he got into position between your legs, placing the tip of his cock at your entrance. He paused, looking you in the eye, gently stroking your cheek.

“Ready?” he asked gently, “I’ll go slow.”

You nodded vigorously, to be honest the anticipation was killing you and you were very much aroused, wanting him to just get on with it. When he pushed into you though, you realized you should really be careful what you wished for. The feeling of him stretching you was almost too much, every inch he pushed in agonizingly slow amplifying your arousal to a dizzying degree. By the time he was seated all the way inside you you were panting, almost out of breath already.

“Okay?” he asked, through gritted teeth. You could tell he was holding back for dear life, but he purposely went achingly slow to make sure you were comfortable.

“Yes,” you said, having adjusted to his size, “you can move now.” Your pussy clenched involuntarily around him and he hissed.

“Don’t do that, Y/N,” he groaned, “I won’t last.”

“Sorry,” you said sheepishly, and as if to get you back he snapped his hips, making you cry out.

“Fuck!” you screamed, and that definitely encouraged him, and he set a pace, fucking you into the mattress. You felt your toes curl, a familiar knot building in your stomach. Once again, you thought, you felt like you shouldn’t be enjoying it as much as you were, it was more important for him to come inside you. “Come on, baby, come for me,” you whispered in his ear, hoping the dirty talk would encourage him.

“Almost there,” he grunted, and as much as you tried not to enjoy it, the way he was drilling into you felt too good. You bit your lip and grasped at the sheets, trying to keep your orgasm down, but he took it as a sign that you were about to come. He reached between you and thumbed your clit, and at that moment your orgasm exploded out of you without warning. He groaned as you clenched around him, finally spilling his seed inside you. You were dizzy, mind hazy from your orgasm, but you were content at the feeling of his cum inside you. He started to pull out, then stopped.

“Oh,” he said, and you looked up at him to see why he was saying that.

“What is it?” you asked.

“It’s leaking out of you,” he pointed down between your legs. You panicked.

“Well you’re not supposed to pull out right away!” you wrung your hands frantically, “push it back in!”

He looked at you incredulously, before looking down at his already softening cock, realizing it was useless at that point. So he just used his fingers, gathering up the cum that had leaked down and pushing it back into your pussy. You bit your lip again, because the more he pushed in, the more aroused you became, surprised that you weren’t oversensitive at this point. He must’ve noticed your reaction because he didn’t stop, pushing in further and further, in and out, faster and faster, until you were coming again, pussy pulsing around his fingers.

You took a deep breath to regulate your breathing, while he pulled his fingers out of you and sat back.

“Are you okay?” he asked, when you still lay there, unmoving.

“Yes,” you responded, staring up at the ceiling.

“Well, I guess I’ll get going,” he said awkwardly, when you didn’t say anything else.

You nodded, still staring up at the ceiling. “Same time tomorrow?”

“Yeah, I’ll be here.” He dressed without saying anything more and left the room.

---

He came over again the next night, and you repeated the same awkward scene from the night before. This continued for a few cycles, with no success, and again you were losing hope.

“Maybe there’s something wrong with me,” you said dejectedly one day. Jaehyun looked over at you, concern etched on his face.

“The doctor said you were fine,” he replied, attempting to soothe you.

“Maybe there’s something wrong with you then,” you huffed, but Jaehyun just shook his head.

“Y/N, they put us through a bunch of tests and said we’re both fine,” he put a hand on your knee to reassure you.

“Then why isn’t it working?” you lamented, on the verge of tears.

“Do you want my opinion?” he asked hesitantly. You looked up at him in surprise.

“Yeah, of course,” you replied, curious as to what he had to say.

“Well, I’ve been reading those links the doctor sent, and it said stress is a big factor,” he stated carefully, “I think you just need to relax, and let it happen.”

You were floored. On the one hand you were touched that he had actually read the links the doctor had sent (you had been too impatient to bother), on the other hand, what exactly did he mean by ‘letting it happen’?

“Let’s do things differently next time, what do you think?” he had a twinkle in his eye that was starting to alarm you.

“What do you have in mind?” you asked suspiciously.

“You’ll see.” He smiled, much too widely for your liking.

---

The next time came around and you were more nervous than you were the first night, and if this was his idea of making it more relaxed he was already failing miserably. When he showed up at your door though, you almost didn’t recognize him. 

Instead of a t-shirt and sweats, he was wearing a crisp white button-down and jeans that sat sexily on his hips. Instead of his hair flat and falling in his face he had it pulled back, with just a few strands falling over his forehead. He also smelled incredible, a musky scent that forever trapped you in his hold, and made you want him in every way he would let you.

He smiled at you, but not in the way a friend smiles at a friend, and when he leaned in to give you a kiss on the cheek you almost passed out from the warmth of his lips and the intoxicating scent emanating from his skin. He walked past you to the bedroom, leaving you standing there with your mouth open and your underwear dampening.

When you finally collected yourself, you went upstairs to hear the bath running. You walked into the bathroom to see him drawing a bath, candles surrounding the tub, flower petals in the water, and the most luscious smelling bath bomb marinating in it.

“Jaehyun, what-” 

“Shh,” he put a finger to your lips, and even that act was so sensual you had to squeeze your legs together, “let me take care of you.” He reached down and turned off the water. “Get undressed and get in the bath, and I’ll come back and help you get relaxed.” He left the room and you did what he said, calling him back in once you were in the bath and the cloudy bubbly water reached the tops of your breasts.

He had such a calm and serene look on his face that it almost threw you off, but then he was taking your puff and squeezing body wash on it.

“May I?” he asked, and when you nodded he gently took your arm and ran the puff along it. He did the same with the other arm, and that simple act, along with the warmth of the bath water, did wonders to soothe you. You felt like you were floating, with the calming scents of the bath bomb, and his gentle touch. He started to run the puff along your neck and you bent your head back and sighed. Soon enough he was dipping below the surface of the water, running the puff between your breasts, and you sighed even deeper as he got lower, past your stomach, and lower still. The puff was forgotten, and now it was just his hand, reaching down between your legs. It all felt so good, you spread your legs even wider, wanting more.

“How does it feel?” he whispered, so close to your ear you shuddered.

“So good,” you couldn’t help but moan, and then his hand was there, cupping your pussy.

“I want to make you feel good, Y/N,” he purred, his voice like honey, “will you let me make you feel good?”

“Yes,” the word came out on a long exhale, as he plunged a finger between your folds, and you couldn’t help but fall apart. He fingered you until you came, water splashing all around you as you writhed in pleasure. When you were done he picked you up out of the bath, not caring that his clothes were getting wet, and carried you to the bed. You couldn’t care that you were probably soaking the bed, because his lips were on your neck, hot and urgent, leaving marks that you’d have trouble concealing the next day.

You pulled at his shirt, wanting it off already, and he obliged, throwing the damp fabric to a corner of the room. You rubbed your hands all over his chest, feeling the firm muscle there, then down to his abs. He groaned against your neck when you undid his belt and slipped your hand over his hardened cock.

“Fuck, Y/N,” he hissed, when you wrapped your hand around it and pumped.

“Don’t come yet,” you whispered, taking your hand away, opting instead to pull the rest of his jeans and boxers off. You wrapped your legs around him, encouraging him to enter you, but he pulled back slightly.

“Slow down,” he breathed, and you could feel him smiling against your neck, “this isn’t a race, Y/N,” he continued kissing down the column of your neck, down to your chest, “relax, and let me make you feel good.”

You finally relented, relaxing as he’d ordered, letting yourself melt into the mattress as he sucked on your skin. Your body was on fire, both from the heat of the bath you just had as well as the way his lips were ruining you. When he got down to your lower stomach you realized where he was headed, and instead of fighting the pleasure you were feeling you simply gave in. As soon as his wet tongue collided with your wet folds you let go, moaning wantonly at the feeling. Every sound you made spurred him on, every jerk and jolt of your body gave him the impetus to push you to the height of pleasure, until you were yanking at his hair and convulsing around his tongue.

“That was fucking hot, Y/N,” he almost growled, wiping at his chin as he moved to hover above you, “I almost came.”

“Don’t,” you panted, trying to catch your breath, “you need to come inside me.”

“You want it? Want my cum inside you, fill you up,” his voice was deep, intense, a tone you’d never heard from him, and certainly words you’d never heard from him, but it certainly was doing the job and making you very aroused.

“Oh god,” you exclaimed, unaware that dirty talk was something you liked. Your previous boyfriends hadn’t been this filthy, but you found you loved it.

“I’m gonna fuck you hard, and you’re gonna take all of my cum,” he continued, voice raspy, breath hot in your ear, “I’m gonna knock you the fuck up, and watch your belly grow with my baby.”

“Jaehyun!” you cried out, losing yourself completely. You grabbed a hold of his neck and pulled him down, and for a split second you saw his eyes grow wide as you smashed your lips against his, your no-kissing rule forgotten. He kissed you with the same passion and intensity that he ate you out with, and you wondered why you had ever put that no-kissing rule into place if he could make you feel like that with his lips. You moaned when his tongue entered your mouth, just as he slid his cock inside you.

This time you didn’t hold back, allowing yourself to feel everything. The way his cock slid in and out of you, the way the tip kept hitting that spot so deep inside you. The way his tongue moved in your mouth, the way his hands rubbed up and down your body, sometimes squeezing your breasts and flicking your nipples. Your hands roamed over his back, feeling his muscles move, and when you felt your orgasm start to build you dragged your nails against his skin.

“Fuck, Y/N, I’m gonna come,” he broke from the kiss to drop his head down to your chest, his thrusts getting harder but more erratic.

“Oh god, do it,” you panted, your orgasm about to burst out of you, “fill me up, baby, I want your cum so bad.”

That was enough to send him over the edge, and he pulled you flush against him as he came inside you, the particularly forceful thrusts triggering your own orgasm and making you clench around him. He let out a loud groan as you milked him, fingernails digging into his back.

When you were both done you held him against you, not wanting to let him go. He obliged, just holding you, his face tucked against your neck. You could feel his hot breath against your skin and that, along with his arms around you and his weight on top of you was all oddly comforting.

“I’m gonna pull out,” he finally said, when he had gone soft inside you. You sighed but nodded, and once he had pulled out you clamped your legs together, trying to keep as much of his cum inside you as you could.

He dressed quietly and you watched him, heart stuttering in your chest, your mind reeling. You had promised him that the sex wouldn’t change anything in your relationship, but you couldn’t believe how wrong you were. You wanted to reach for him, wanted him to stay, but you held back.

“Thanks for that,” you said quietly, and he turned to you and smiled.

“You’re welcome,” he said sincerely, “I’ll do anything for you,” and he brought his hand up and cupped your cheek, his eyes soft as he looked at you, “you’re my best friend.”

You smiled at him, but inside your heart was breaking. How could you ever think you could do this and keep your friendship as it was?

---

A few weeks later you were late, and although you tried not to get your hopes up you couldn’t help but think this was it. You waited to take the pregnancy test, wanting Jaehyun to be there no matter the outcome.

“What is it? What’s wrong? You said it’s an emergency.” He looked so concerned when he came over, and you almost felt bad for not saying what it was about right away.

“I’m late, Jaehyun,” you announced nervously.

“Where do you have to be?”

“No, I mean my period! I haven’t gotten my period yet!”

He paused, the pieces finally falling into place, and his face suddenly lit up. “Oh shit!” He covered his mouth with his hand as he looked at you with wide eyes.

“Come with me, I’m gonna take a pregnancy test.” You led him upstairs where he waited outside the bathroom door while you took the test. You placed the stick on the counter and opened the door to let him in.

“Well? What does it say?” he asked, rubbing his hands in anticipation.

“It’s gonna take a few minutes,” you answered nervously, “I can’t look, tell me what it says.” You turned away, so anxious you thought you would pass out.

“One line, so far,” he stated, and you tried to stay calm but your heart was beating out of your chest.

“Hold my hand,” you reached behind you and he took your hand in his, squeezing to comfort you. He was silent for a while, and you couldn’t take it anymore. “Well? What does it say now?”

“I see…” he started to say, and you so desperately wanted to turn around but you were too scared.

“What?! Just say it!”

He pulled you to him, turning you around and lifting the stick up to your eye level. “Two lines.”

You blinked a few times, wanting to make sure you were seeing it right, but every time you opened your eyes there were two solid lines. You were pregnant.

“Oh my god,” you whispered, both of your hands going up to cover your mouth. Jaehyun whooped in celebration, jumping up and down with glee. You saw the genuine happiness in his face and so many emotions ran through you that the only thing you could do was burst into tears.

“Aw, Y/N, don’t cry!” he laughed, gathering you into his arms, thinking you were just crying from happiness. But it was so much more complicated than that. You were getting what you wanted, a baby, but you hadn’t prepared yourself for all the complications of having a baby with your best friend, who you may have developed feelings for.

---

The first trimester was hell. You were throwing up every morning, and feeling nausea for the rest of the day. You had an aversion to most food, even hating the smell of certain things, like meat. The only things you could keep down were bread and noodles, and you wondered how the baby could grow when that was all that you ate. But at every appointment the doctor reassured you that the baby was doing well and developing at a good rate. Jaehyun insisted on going with you to your first ultrasound and as much as you wanted him to, you also dreaded it.

When the fuzzy form of your baby showed up on the screen for the first time you felt a surge of happiness overcome you, tears springing to your eyes at the sight of the tiny figure on the screen. You heard Jaehyun inhale sharply and turned to look at him. The awe in his face was so endearing it made the tears run down your cheeks, and seeing your reaction he wrapped his arms around you and pulled you in for a hug.

“That’s our baby,” he whispered, his voice almost breaking, and you cried harder.

“Congratulations!” the technician said, patting you both on the shoulder. You felt like you should correct her, tell her that although the baby was technically yours and Jaehyun’s, you weren’t together and wouldn’t be raising the baby as such. But how do you explain that to a complete stranger? You looked over at Jaehyun, who was smiling from ear to ear, shaking the technician’s hand and making no move to explain the situation.

Later, as you were getting ready to leave the clinic, you saw the technician hand over a copy of the ultrasound picture to Jaehyun. He took it happily in his hands, as if it were the most precious thing in the world. As he walked towards you he slipped it into the plastic window spot in his wallet, where your drivers’ license should be, but his now housed a blurry black and white photo of your baby.

“Hey, wanna get something to eat to celebrate?” he asked, slinging an arm around you as you both left the clinic.

You shook your head. As much as you wanted to spend time with him, you found it hurt more than it helped. Once the baby was born you’d have to deal with him being around more often, so it was better to save up your strength for that.

“I’m actually really tired, I just want to go home and rest,” you answered without looking up at him, “besides, I’m still off most foods.”

“Oh, okay, makes sense.” He said, removing his arm from around your shoulder and stuffing his hands in his pockets. He didn’t sound upset or offended, but when you looked at him out of the corner of your eye you saw a flash of emotion cross his face, almost like hurt or disappointment. You felt bad, knowing you had been avoiding him, even giving up your weekly brunches, but you felt it was better this way.

“Listen, I’ll let you know when the next ultrasound is, okay? You can come with me again.” You wanted just to wipe the look of disappointment off his face, and luckily it worked.

“Yeah, that would be great! Thanks so much, Y/N,” he leaned down and hugged you, and it was the closest he’d been to you since the last time you’d had sex to make the baby. You held him close, committing the feel of him and the scent of him to memory, before you pulled away and walked towards your car.

---

If the first trimester had been hell, the second trimester was heaven. Miraculously the nausea disappeared, and you found yourself actually craving food. You felt more energized and less tired, and slept so much better. Your belly was starting to grow, and you actually had to start shopping for maternity clothes. Your mood was so much better, but what really came back with a vengeance was your libido. During the first trimester you couldn’t even think about sex, but now, it was all you could think about.

Usually your vibrator would do the trick, but there were always moments where you’d think about Jaehyun, think about how good he could make you feel. Sometimes just thinking about him fucking you was enough to get you off, but when you really thought about him, about the feeling of his cock parting your folds, or the feeling of his strong hips pounding into you, his face sweaty and his scent overpowering the air between you, nothing was better than the real thing.

Which is how you found yourself one night, holding your phone and dialing his number without hesitation.

“Hey, what’s up,” he answered, his voice sounding distant. You realized you hadn’t spoken to or seen him in weeks, and instantly you felt terrible.

“Um, actually nothing. I’m sorry if I woke you.”

“You didn’t wake me,” you could hear him shuffling around, like he had been lying down and started to sit up, “is something wrong, Y/N?”

He always saw right through you, you could hear the concern is his voice, and there was no turning back now.

“Could you come over? I think I need some… company.” You didn’t know if you could just ask for sex over the phone, and was it really only sex that you wanted? Or did you just want him there, with you.

“Yeah, yeah, sure, I can come over,” you heard more shuffling, like he was getting dressed, “are you sure you’re alright?”

“I’ll be better when you’re here.” You answered truthfully.

When he showed up at your door you couldn’t stop yourself from pulling him towards you and hugging him tightly. He didn’t protest, just held you and rubbed your back gently.

“What’s wrong, Y/N?” he asked softly against your hair.

“I miss you,” you admitted, voice muffled against his chest because you were too ashamed to look at him.

“I’m around, you know,” he chuckled, “you’re the one who cancelled our brunches.”

You pulled back and forced yourself to make eye contact with him. “No, Jaehyun, I miss you.” You touched his chest when you said it, giving him a look laden with meaning. He understood right away, his eyebrows rising slightly. You took him by the hand and pulled him inside, leading him upstairs and to your bedroom. He let himself be led, but once you were behind closed doors he suddenly took you into his arms and kissed you. The kiss wasn’t subtle, or gentle, it was intense and forceful, his intent surely to rile you up. It definitely worked, because you could feel wetness pooling in your panties as he stuck his tongue down your throat.

“You want my cock again,” he growled, breaking from the kiss to suck a line down your throat. You gasped at his aggressiveness, but you had to admit it really turned you on.

“Yes,” you breathed out, as he stripped you of your clothes and pushed you towards the bed. You fumbled at his clothes, trying to get them off but you found your limbs were weak from the way he was handling you. He took over, stripping off the rest of his clothes, his cock springing forward when he pulled his boxers down. You admired it for only a second before he turned you around, pushing you onto your hands and knees on the bed.

“You like my cock, don’t you, you like me fucking into your little pussy,” he spoke so low, his chest flush against your back so you could feel the reverberation of his voice.

You didn’t have a chance to answer, because he rammed his cock into you, a scream tearing from your throat as he went as deep as he could.

“Fuck, you’re so tight,” he groaned, his hands gripping your hips as he started to pound into you. You weren’t sure how pregnant sex would feel, since so many things were changing in your body, but you weren’t prepared for what you got. It felt like your entire body was on fire, pleasure coursing through every part of you. He hit places inside you that you’d never felt before, and all of it was like nothing you’d ever experienced.

“Jae,” you panted, “Jae, oh my god!” your orgasm was coming on, super fast and beyond your control.

“You’re gonna come already, baby? Alright, come on, come all over my cock,” he reached down, and although it was a little awkward because of your belly, he managed to get to your clit and rub it with the pad of his thumb.

Your vision went white when your orgasm hit, your fingers and toes going numb as your pussy clenched around his cock. You could barely hold yourself up, your upper body falling to the bed as you convulsed around him. He kept going, fucking you through it, and when you stilled he pulled out and lay you on your back. He gave you a moment to catch your breath, before he entered you again. You cried out at the oversensitivity, but he went slowly, and soon enough you started to feel pleasure again.

“I can keep going,” he said, as he fucked into you at a slow but deliberate pace, “you want more, don’t you?”

You nodded vigorously, already feeling another orgasm building. He propped himself up then, and pounded into you, the bed shaking from his harsh thrusts. You gripped and pulled at the sheets, unable to contain the needy whines and moans coming up out of your mouth. You forced your eyes open to see him hovering over you, a look of intense concentration on his face, his brow sweaty, hair falling into his eyes. When he saw you looking at him his concentration faltered, and he bent his head down for a kiss. You were expecting a kiss to match the intensity with which he was fucking you, but instead it was soft, gentle, lingering. You felt something in it, something above and beyond what he was doing to you, something that carried you where you most wanted to be but didn’t dare go. The orgasm you had then was different, not just purely physical, not just filled with lust, but something more elevated, more emotional.

He broke the kiss to grunt loudly as he came, spilling more of his seed inside you. When he was done he pulled out, and sat at the edge of the bed.

“Y/N,” he said, and you don’t know why he sounded so defeated. You sat up, preparing yourself for what he was going to say.

“Jaehyun,” you reached for him but thought better of it, your hand dropping into your lap.

“I can’t keep doing this with you,” he said, his voice quiet but determined, “it’s fucking me up and I don’t know what to do with myself.”

Your heart sank. He was pulling out of your life, and it was all your fault for doing this to him. “I’m so sorry, Jaehyun.”

He got dressed hurriedly, without looking back at you, and before he opened the door to leave he turned back.

“You need to decide for yourself what you want me to be,” he still didn’t look at you, opting to look at the floor instead, “I’ll always be here for you, but I need to know where I stand.”

The door closing behind him echoed in the room, the absence of him already settling into your heart.

---

You went through the rest of the second trimester on your own, too ashamed and heartbroken to see Jaehyun, and too confused to sort out your feelings. He’d text you once in a while to ask you how you were doing, how you were feeling, but there was no talk beyond the pregnancy. He didn’t come to any more of your doctor’s appointments, nor did you ever invite him to any more in the first place. The third trimester hit even worse than the first, your belly was now so big it was almost uncomfortable to do anything, you now had constant heartburn, and you were going to the bathroom every ten minutes because of the weight on your bladder.

About a month before your due date, you were making dinner in the kitchen when you felt an uncomfortable tightening in your abdomen. You clutched your stomach, gripping the counter in alarm and wondering what you should do. The feeling came and went, but returned after a few minutes. Concerned, you called your doctor, who advised you to come in to the hospital just to get checked out. As you were getting ready you got a text from Jaehyun, asking how you were doing.

Jaehyun: hey just doing my check-in

JH: how is it going today

Me: well it’s probably nothing but

Me: just going to the hospital to get checked out

JH: wait what

JH: let me take you

Me: i should be ok

JH: Y/N pls let me take you

Me: ok

JH: thank you i’ll be right there

You sighed, wishing you had never told him and made him worry. Luckily you didn’t have to wait long since he lived nearby, and soon enough he was pulling up to your house. You didn’t bother to wait for him to come to the door, coming out as soon as you saw his car. You were locking the front door when the uncomfortable feeling came back, making you double over, clutching your stomach.

“Y/N!” you heard Jaehyun yell behind you, and soon enough his arms were cradling you as you crouched over. “What happened? What’s going on?”

His voice sounded frantic, terrified, and when you looked up in his eyes he looked so scared that it made your chest ache.

You smiled weakly, trying to placate him, “Don’t worry, it’s probably just false labor,” you patted him on the arm and soon enough the feeling went away. “My doctor just wants me to come in and get checked out, just in case.”

He nodded, but didn’t look reassured at all, creases of worry still lining his face. He also didn’t let you go, holding onto your arm as you walked to the car. At the hospital he didn’t leave your side, until the doctor came to do your examination.

“I’ll wait outside,” he said hesitantly, but you could tell he didn’t want to leave at all, eyes looking longingly back at you as he left the room.

After the doctor examined you and reassured you that it really was just false labor, you were cleared to leave and found Jaehyun in the hall, pacing. Once he saw you he ran up to you, searching your face with frantic eyes.

“Well? What happened?” he’d taken your hands in his, and his palms felt cold and clammy.

“It was nothing, just false labor, the doctor told me to go home and rest.” You reassured him, squeezing his hands and smiling softly at him. He let out a long breath, collapsing into a nearby chair.

“Oh my god, Y/N, I almost died!” he passed the back of his hand over his eyes dramatically, and you suppressed a giggle at his overdramatic show.

“Don’t laugh!” he sat up and looked at you incredulously, “I lost ten years of my life just now!”

“I’m sorry, I’m really sorry,” you pressed your lips together trying not to smile. He broke into a wide grin then, pleased with himself that he had managed to lighten your mood with his sense of humor.

“Come on, let’s get you home.”

---

The drive from the hospital had been quiet, both of you realizing that there was still this huge wall between you, and neither of you were brave enough to breach it. He walked you to your door in continued silence, and once you reached your doorstep he turned around to walk back to his car.

“Jaehyun,” you called, unable to stand it anymore, “do you wanna come in and talk?”

He turned around, a mixture of hope, fear, and resignation on his face, and nodded.

The time apart had made you realize how much you missed him, and seeing him again had made you realize how much you still wanted him to be a part of your life. You were hoping to salvage something of your relationship, but you were fully aware that you could never go back to what it had been.

You sat him down on the sofa and took a deep breath.

“Jaehyun,” you began, getting more and more nervous as you went on, “I know I made things weird, even though I promised I wouldn’t,” he opened his mouth to say something but you stopped him, determined to get out what you wanted to say. “I was so focused on having a baby that I didn’t think about what involving you would mean, and what it would do to our friendship. I think I was just naive, I didn’t think anything would change, and I was so wrong.”

He sat across from you, and even though he was just inches away it felt like he was miles away, like an unfathomable chasm had opened up between you. Then he looked up at you, hesitant, but determined.

“Y/N, we can’t go back and change things anymore. What’s happened has happened.” He tilted his head to regard you, taking a deep breath before moving on, “so I just need to know one thing.”

“What is it?”

“Do you want me to be a part of your life?”

“Yes. Always.” You answered truthfully, without a doubt in your mind. He smiled, but there was still something behind his eyes.

“Hey, do you remember that pact we made in eighth grade?” He suddenly asked, his eyes twinkling.

“The marriage one?” you scanned your eighth grade memories and that was the only pact you could think of.

“Yeah, the one where we said if neither of us are married by the time we’re thirty, we’ll marry each other?”

“Yes, I remember.” It was during PE class, when you and Jaehyun were sitting in the field while everyone else was running around chasing soccer balls. You don’t remember how the subject came up, but soon enough you were doing pinky swears and Jaehyun was fashioning rings out of blades of grass for you and him to wear. You both had a good laugh over it, and never thought about it again until this moment.

“So what if we didn’t wait?”

“What do you mean?”

“What if we didn’t wait until we’re thirty, what if we just did it now? I mean, we’re having a baby together already.”

“Jaehyun, are you proposing right now?” you said it as a joke, even chuckling to yourself, you weren’t taking the whole thing seriously at all, except Jaehyun wasn’t laughing.

“I mean, I don’t have a ring, but…” he looked around the room, and seeing your spider plant on a nearby table he picked a leaf off and rolled it around itself, making a ring out of it, and slipped it on your finger. You were speechless.

“Jaehyun, you’re serious.” You managed to say after the thoughts stopped running through your brain. You hadn’t really thought about marriage, none of the guys you’d dated had ever made you think about it. You knew you wanted kids, but marriage was something you figured you couldn’t achieve, never having found the right guy. Yet here he was all along, Jeong Jaehyun,  your best friend, someone who knew you inside and out. A dawning realization hit you then, that maybe none of your relationships ever worked out because you kept comparing them to Jaehyun, and no one ever held up. You were in love with your best friend, and you didn’t even know it.

“Well?” he asked, with raised eyebrows and hopeful eyes. You stared at the leaf ring on your finger, turning it around and around, your heart and mind finally finding peace in your realization. You looked up at him, cupping his face, and he looked like he was bracing himself for a possibly negative response.

“Yes.” You answered, smiling brightly at him, and it took him a moment to realize you weren’t turning him down. His face broke out into a wide grin, his dimples as deep as ever, his eyes shiny. He pulled you in for a hug, but your belly made it somewhat awkward.

“Oh my god, Y/N, you’re huge!” he looked down at your belly in awe.

“Jaehyun what the fuck!” you smacked him on the arm, slightly offended.

“No, I meant I was too busy being worried about you that I never noticed how big your belly had gotten.” He reached out his hand tentatively. “Can I touch?”

“Of course,” you said, happy that you could share this with him. You took his hand and placed it on your belly.

“Can you feel the baby move?” He asked, eyes growing wide when his hand landed on your stomach.

“Sometimes, mostly when I’m lying still though.” You let him rub his hand over your stomach, endeared at how awestruck he was, his mouth forming a little ‘o’ as he moved his hand around. He suddenly leaned forward, his face getting very close to your belly.

“Hey little one,” he called softly, and your heart clenched at the sight of him talking to the baby in your belly, “I’m your dad.”

Suddenly you felt a jolt in your ribs, as the baby stretched and kicked inside you.

“Oh my god, Y/N! Did you feel that?” Jaehyun clapped excitedly.

“Damn right I felt it,” you groaned, patting your stomach, “keep it down in there, kicking mama in the ribs really hurts!”

Jaehyun burst out laughing, gathering you in his arms and hugging you tightly. “That was adorable!” he exclaimed, and your heart felt warm as you wrapped your arms around him.

---

You decided to just do a small backyard ceremony for your wedding, neither of you fond of big parties that meant even bigger expenses. Jaehyun moved into your house since he had been rooming with a friend, and once all of his things had been moved in and installed, you were left alone with each other once again.

You don’t know why, but your first night as a married couple felt like the first night you’d had sex, awkward as hell. Once again you stood on either side of the bed, unsure as to what to do.

“Bed?” he finally asked after you’d both stood there for too long.

“Bed,” you answered, and you both got in at the same time. You couldn’t help but laugh at your awkwardness, and that certainly broke the tension. You turned to your side, the only way you could get comfortable with how big your belly was, and he slotted his body behind you, wrapping an arm around you and resting his hand on your belly. You sighed contentedly, loving the feeling of being in his arms.

“This is nice,” he whispered, but his breath against your ear made you shiver, and suddenly contentment wasn’t the only thing you were feeling. Not to mention his hand that was on your belly had moved to your hip, fingers tracing wide circles over the fabric of your sleep shorts.

“Jaehyun,” you didn’t mean to, but his name came out in a moan, and his hand stopped its circuit, the faintest bit of pressure being applied to your hip.

“Y/N?” he questioned, but you were taking his hand and moving it up to your breasts. Once he cupped them you moaned again. “Holy shit, Y/N, your boobs are huge!”

“Jaehyun!” you reprimanded him, but he apologized quickly.

“Sorry, sorry, I just-” he cupped and squeezed, feeling the weight of them, “wow,” was all he could say.

“Well they won’t be this big for too long, so you better take advantage of them now,” you encouraged, and he did, tweaking your nipples until you were moaning into your pillow.

“Tell me if I do anything that hurts, or makes you feel uncomfortable, okay?” he whispered into your ear, before he started to plant wet kisses along your neck and shoulder. Your mind went hazy at the feeling of his lips on your skin, and soon he slipped a hand down, past the waistband of your shorts.

You inhaled sharply when his fingers found you wet, when he gathered some of your arousal to rub it around your clit. You moaned loudly when he made circles around your bud, pressing your face further into your pillow.

“Don’t do that, baby, I wanna hear you,” he pulled the covers off and pushed your pillow away, helping you take off your shirt and the rest of your clothes so you were fully exposed to him. He looked at you, lust and hunger clouding his eyes. “Fuck, you look so gorgeous knocked up with my baby.”

Your pussy clenched at his words and you pulled at his own clothes to get him to take them off. “Come here and fuck me, husband.”

Your words ignited something in him, and he bent down, throwing one of your legs over his shoulder and pushing into you. You cried out, not caring anymore how loud you were being, the feeling of his cock inside you throwing you into the heights of pleasure. Once you started though, you couldn’t stop, moans and whimpers and whines tumbling out of your lips as he pumped his cock inside you.

“You like it, don’t you?” he growled, “you like my cock so much you let me knock you up.”

You moaned even louder at his words, your orgasm starting to build in the pit of your stomach. “Yes, god, yes!”

“You want my cum, baby? Look at where it got you, huh? You let me come inside you and now you’re knocked up.” His voice was raspy, deep, and it cut right to your core.

“Fuck, Jaehyun! I’m gonna come!” you warned him, grasping at the sheets as your orgasm hit you, your pussy pulsing around his cock. It didn’t take much longer for him to come, one last thrust that took your breath away, and he spilled his seed into you.

“Are you okay?” he asked, brushing aside a strand of hair that had fallen into your face, “did it hurt at all?”

“No, not at all, it felt good,” you smiled at him, wanting to alleviate his concern. He looked relieved, before he bent down and kissed the swell of your stomach.

“Sorry, baby,” he said sheepishly, addressing the baby, and you could only laugh, rubbing a hand through his hair as he smiled up at you.

---

The next day Jaehyun had left for work, and you were almost out the door yourself when you felt something gush between your legs. You figured you knew what it was and, resolved to stay calm, you quickly called Jaehyun.

“Babe, what is it?” he answered on the first ring.

“I think my water broke.” 

“Okay, stay calm, I’m on my way back.”

It didn’t take long for him to come back since he’d just left, and you drove to the hospital all the while holding tightly to his hand. The contractions started then, not too bad at first but as time went on the pain was hard to bear. By the time you reached the hospital you were grimacing in pain and Jaehyun was yelling for someone to come and help you.

You labored for hours, Jaehyun never leaving your side, giving you strength even when you felt like you had no more to give. You wondered how you could have ever done this without him, without his unwavering support, his cheerful but calm demeanor raising you up when you felt like giving in. Soon enough you had a healthy baby in your hands, a boy that an ecstatic Jaehyun had already dubbed his ‘mini me’.

---

If you had known what the first few weeks with a newborn would have been like you would have seriously rethought having a baby in the first place. You were exhausted more than you had ever been in your life, catching sleep for only those precious moments when the baby would sleep. Your breasts were sore from breastfeeding, and if you never saw another poopy diaper in your life it would be too soon. What made it all worth it, was the look of pure innocence in your baby’s eyes, and the way your husband would stare at him like he was the most precious person in the world.

One night you were woken again by the baby’s cries, and trudging to his room you were surprised to see Jaehyun already there.

“Sorry to wake you,” he whispered, “I was changing him and he lost his binky.” You stood in the doorway and watched as your husband expertly handled your son, swaddling him in his blankets and making sure the pacifier was situated in his mouth. “Go back to bed, I got this.”

Jaehyun had done many things during your time together that you considered sexy, but this was probably the sexiest thing he had ever done. You walked back to your bedroom, mentally reminding yourself to reward him when you were more awake.

You lay in bed though, unable to fall back asleep. Your mind was racing, anxieties resurfacing at that dark and quiet time of night. Jaehyun eventually came back, sliding into the bed and spooning you, his arm coming to wrap around your waist.

“Jae?” you whispered, hoping he hadn’t fallen back asleep right away.

“Hm? I thought you were asleep.” He sounded tired, tightening his arm around you.

“Is this the life you wanted?” you asked him, rubbing his arm that was wrapped around you.

“Absolutely.” He answered, without hesitation.

“No, I’m serious.”

“So am I. Why wouldn’t you think I was being serious?” he suddenly propped himself up on his elbow so he could see your face.

“Because you had a life before this, and now it’s just-” you waved your hand in the air, “me and the baby.”

“Just you and the baby? Y/N, you and Yuno are the most important things in my life right now.” He pressed a soft kiss to your cheek. “Yeah I had Friday night drinks and Sunday basketball games, and that was fun and all, but you two are my family now.”

“Don’t you miss it?”

“If I did I’d just go and do it? So no, I don’t miss it right now. Maybe eventually? But that doesn’t mean I’d love you and Yuno less.”

It wasn’t the first time he’d told you he loved you, but you knew you’d never get tired of hearing it. You’d been surprised when he’d told you he’d been in love with you for a while, not daring to say anything about it for fear of ruining your friendship. When you’d told him that you wanted to have a baby he knew that there was no one else in the world that he wanted to bear his children except you, and he was relieved when you accepted his offer of being a sperm donor. He had been prepared to be just that, but the sex threw everything into chaos, including his feelings for you and his resolve to keep your relationship as just friends. He felt himself falling even deeper for you, but his heart couldn’t handle the push and pull he was feeling from you. He never wanted to pull out of your life, and he spent more time staring at his phone waiting for you to call or text than he dared to admit. Bringing up the marriage pact had been a gamble, and he was terrified that you’d say no, but when you said yes, he could barely contain his happiness.

“Listen,” he said, taking your hand in his, “this life is more than I could have ever asked for.”

“Really?” you asked, turning to look at him, “With me?”

“Baby, it’s always been you.”

[avintagekiss24]

Hi! I don't want to start anything on here and am always willing for civil conversations. At this point there's so much I've found out about Seb (besides the video he liked, the tommy lee thing, and the girlfriend thing) that I feel so guilty if I would continue to support him. I love him sm but it just doesn't look good rn. He is associated/follows an organisation (for helping veterans) that has posted a blue lives matter flag picture and who's co-founder has sexual assault allegations against him, and worked with him in 'The last full measure'. His friend Paul Walter Hauser has done blackface in the past, and when called out on it he just listed a few people that also did blackface. There's more, I found a discussion on here that I can link. I seriously don't support "cancel culture" bc I don't think it helps anyone but there are just a lot of 'mistakes' and shady people that can be linked to Seb, I wish it wouldn't be that way. I honestly don't know what to think about it anymore.

Hi! I’m also open to having civil conversations and I don’t believe you’re trying to start anything. I really do think this situation of dragging up a four year old video and taking it completely out of context is harmful not just to Black people, but to fandom/activism in general. This is gonna be long because I’m going to take your points one by one, and I want to preface this by saying that I will not answer any derogatory, sideways asks pertaining to this subject. I will delete every single one and will block your silly ass. I’m not going to argue with people who think I’m blindly supporting Sebastian because I’m just trying to get fucked by him, or people who think I hate myself and am trying to appease some white man.

So, on with the discourse!

The video he liked - this video was taken completely out of context and that is my main issue with this whole situation. It was not a video of a white man saying that he thinks he should be able to say the n word as everyone claimed it was. They were quickly debating on whether or not it's okay to say in rap lyrics. He was told no, that's not okay, that's never okay and they moved on from it. That's it. End of story. That somehow was twisted into a click bait style headline of "Sebastian Stan likes a video of a white man defending his right to say the n word" when that is absolutely not true. My other issue is that people are more upset that Sebastian liked the video than they are about the white man in the video literally saying the n word. So, do you really care about the use of the n word like you're claiming? Cuz if you do, you'd be more upset at the white man that said the word than you would be about the white man simply liking the video. Or, are you just using this as an excuse to grandstand against a white man you don't like?

The Tommy Lee thing - Sebastian Stan playing Tommy Lee does not make Sebastian Stan a bad person. Is Charlize Theron a bad person for playing Aileen Wuornos, a prostitute who started murdering men? Is Leonardo DiCaprio a bad person for playing a slave owner? Is Edward Norton a bad person for playing a nazi sympathizing racist? Actors play bad people. That doesn't mean that they themselves are bad people. 1990's Tommy Lee was a bad person, but that should have no bearing on who Sebastian Stan is or his character as a man.

The gf/Paul Walter Hauser thing - Why are we holding Sebastian accountable for what the people around him are doing? Again, why are we more upset that Sebastian is associated with people who have done questionable things than the specific people themselves? I'm not going to speak on the kimono wearing -- I'm not Asian. It's not my place to say whether or not its offensive because it's not my culture, but she posted that picture and attended that party before she started dating Sebastian, quite possibly before she even knew him. Same with Paul. I think that black face thing was long before he knew Sebastian. Now, if Sebastian was defending these actions, going around saying "I think it's okay for white women to wear Kimono's" "I think black face is fine" "I think white people should be able to say the n word" then we'd have a different story, wouldn't we? But that's not what we have, and that's not what he is doing. He is not responsible for the things his friends do or have done in the past just because he's more famous than they are, and he is not required to speak on them. Let's put it this way -- would you be comfortable having to be responsible for something a friend of yours did before you knew them? Would you want to have to be forced to answer for your friend when you yourself had nothing to do with the questionable behavior?

The organization that supports the military/blue lives matter - Sebastian cannot control what message that foundation puts out and it does not mean that he is or is not pro-police himself. There is not enough concrete evidence -- if any evidence for that matter -- that Sebastian is a blue lives matter supporter. Did Sebastian donate before they put up the blue lives matter post? Or after? I don’t know, cuz I don’t follow him that closely, but if he donates before they come out with a particular stance, that means he should be held accountable for that? I know I donated to an organization once and they turned out to support something that i’m 100% against. That means I’m a bad person because I couldn’t see into the future? Another point, how can we be certain that Sebastian saw the blue lives matter post in the first place? I know I’m not online 24 hrs a day, I miss posts all the time and I’m just an average person. I make three or four tumblr posts a day, and I’m gone. I have to play catch up on social media, and even then, I still miss stuff. So I’m sure the same happens to a working actor. As for the co-founder, I don't know who this person is and would rather not get into any allegations against them because I don't want to trigger anyone who comes across this post. If Sebastian knows about these allegations, is a willing participant/supporter of this person then yeah, that's pretty shitty, but we don't know the inner workings of this friendship/acquaintance/work relationship. We don’t know how close they are or if they even still speak.

I’m a pretty big fan of Don Cheadle. He’s a stand up guy, he’s a great actor, he’s funny, he’s political and stands up for what he believes in and in a very public way. I support him. Don Cheadle is also friends with Chris Evans, RDJ, Mark Ruffalo, and Letitia Wright (just to name a few). Chris Evans has a bipartisan forum that highlights/promotes right wing politicians, RDJ defended Chris Pratt during the whole “he’s the worst Chris in Hollywood” crap, who’s technically done black face, and who once said to a female reporter “nice tits” when she walked into the room, Mark Ruffalo just walked back his support of Palestine, and Letitia Wright retweeted/supported an anti-vaxxer/anti-trans Pastor who equated an ingredient of the covid vaccine to the devil because it contained some parts of the word Lucifer. Does that mean Don is now a bad person because he’s friends with these people? Why isn’t he getting any heat for his friendships with them? Why isn’t he being held accountable for what they’ve done and said? Oh right, because he’s not a white fave. So people don’t care one way or the other, which brings me to my next point. 

I can guarantee you that if Sebastian’s gf or Paul or this co-founder were not associated with Sebastian in any way, nobody would give a shit about her wearing a kimono, about Paul doing black face, or about the co-founder/organization being blue lives matter supporters and in that lies the actual problem. Being critical of people and their actions should be consistent and should happen all the time -- not just when they interact with your white fave. That’s when it becomes performative and looks like you just want to be able to show internet people that you follow/support/stan unproblematic celebrities, when really, you don’t care.

I think the moral of this post is that I think it's unfair to hold a complete stranger to a standard that I cannot hold myself to. I also don't view celebrities the way most teenagers/twenty somethings do, and that’s because when I entered fandom we didn't have social media, so I grew up with a wall between myself and said celebrities. There is no wall now with the presence of social media. "Fans" nowadays have a weird ownership feeling over celebrities because they can read their personal thoughts or view personal pictures and think that they have this personal quasi-friendship with them. I can't get on board with that. I prefer having the wall and I still keep the wall.

If supporting Sebastian makes you uncomfortable, then by all means, stop supporting him. Just make sure you are making this decision for yourself based on credible sources and concrete evidence and that you're not letting this fake woke activist mob make you feel uncomfortable. Internet activism means nothing unless you put your money where your mouth is in your real life and 90% of the social justice internet warriors do not. Real activism is bigger than changing your avi to a black square.

[esther-dot]

I agree with the anon who was agreeing with the anon (ha!) that we shouldn't use a character's trauma to diminish or excuse their actions and crimes, but I want to point out that our corner of the fandom can be guilty of this, too. Cersei and Lysa's trauma is often held up as more important than the trauma of other villains, as if they somehow deserve more compassion and leniency for their crimes than the others, which is something I disagree with (certainly they don't deserve more hatred or criticism than the other villains either). For that matter, and I know this will be an extremely controversial thing to say, but I also think we sometimes cross the line into using Catelyn's trauma over Bran's accident to diminish the cruelty of what she said to Jon ("Well it was just that one time, and she was so tired and upset..."). I'm not saying any of this to make anyone feel bad. Our corner of the fandom is loving and kind and usually makes a sincere effort to be fair. But we're human, and we have our own biases, and sometimes we can unwittingly slide into the same behaviours that are so frustrating to see in the rest of the fandom. It takes vigilance and the occasional honest self-examination to make sure we don't become like them.

In summary, we should have compassion for all abuse victims, including the ones we dislike, and we should at the same time be careful not to use that compassion to excuse the actions of the villains we do like. And last but not least, Sansa fans are wonderful, my beloveds.

Sansa fans are wonderful! 💗

I received several responses to that post and another one also pointed out what they felt was hypocrisy in how we respond to Cersei’s abuse in comparison to other villains, so, you’re not alone in your feelings! (@ my other anon, I will respond to you as well, so look away or don’t spontaneously combust when you read this 😬)

I’ll just say again, it’s very difficult to respond to asks like this because I have such a different impression of what Sansa fans do, I am either reading the same thing and taking it in a totally different way, or I am just not seeing the content that is troubling you. In general, I think that we have to think about the author’s purpose in writing what he does and also the purpose of the fan when reading what they write. As in, is the author saying, “here is why this person is behaving this way” or is the author condoning that behavior? Fans disagree on that a lot. Is the fan writing the meta saying, “yes, Cersei and Lysa are villains, but let’s all acknowledge how they were mistreated” or are they saying “...and because I sympathize they are no longer villains.”

When I think about what I’ve seen written about Cersei and Lysa, it’s trying to push against the fandom, and even against the author at times, and say, “these women deserve sympathy too. It doesn’t change who they are, but their past should allow us to see their humanity.” Sympathy is the end goal. My issue with the fandom at large is that they go further and want to use sympathy to argue something else, want to move, say, the Hound from one role and shift him into another. Suddenly, sympathy means pretending he didn’t assault Sansa, he wasn’t a threat, she didn’t think he might kill her. I don’t feel like it’s more important to sympathize with Cersei than the Hound, I just don’t have an issue with sympathizing with her when that’s all anyone asks, but I do have a problem that half the fandom rewrote who the Hound is because they sympathized. To me, that is a radically different thing to do.

Now that you mention it, I can see how my resentment of how fans woobified the Hound (and therefore rewrote Sansa’s story and denied her trauma), means I do dislike discussing his trauma because I know how it is used by the fandom. I suppose my reaction means that I have a much higher tolerance for reading takes that are incredibly sympathetic to Cersei, because I know where that begins and ends, her story isn’t being distorted beyond recognition, we all get it. But, I do see how that can begin to feel like we’re giving more weight to her trauma than another character, so I’ll keep that in mind.

But something for people who share your concerns to remember is that, the discussion of how women are treated in Westeros interests a lot of us so we hone in on that more than specific acts of violence. It isn’t that we think their trauma is more important exactly, it’s part of a discussion overall that we’re interested in. The series is quite violent, most characters have suffered violence, but I think our corner likes to talk about the suffering of women, specifically, likely as an extension of our real life concerns. I don’t talk about the physical abuse Sansa suffered as much as I do her forced marriage. That’s objectively weird if I were interested in weighing suffering against suffering, and deciding who has the greatest trauma, but it’s a specific kind of terror for women to lose bodily autonomy, to be married off or forced to have children or forced to undergo an abortion on the whim of the man who happens to be in charge of you at the time. I’m guessing that’s why certain forms of abuse/trauma preoccupy us. We’re interested in a larger conversation that drives some of what we’re examining in ASOIAF.

Something that draws me in to certain villains rather than others is that I always liked feminist criticism of literature, so taking a story and looking at it in the most compassionate way you can to the female villain, is a path I’m very used to. This applies to Cersei and Lysa, not really Dany as much because the author and the fandom already is very sympathetic to her. Of course, I have always been very responsive to female suffering in entertainment, so I truly feel for Dany, in spite of what she does. Reading about this little girl being abused and raped, the loss of her child, her desire  for home…I feel for her in a way that I don't for Tyrion or the Hound. That doesn’t change the fact that I think she’s done bad things and will do more bad things, it just means there are facets to her and my experience reading her. When I read about Cersei being forced to marry, her grief for her children...I feel for her. I like those facets to who she is, and I appreciate people talking about them.

I did a whole long post about the Catelyn and Jon scene which of course, I can't find now, and I think it's one of those instances when we're meant to feel for both characters. People like to pick sides, it's so instinctive it's a marketing ploy to pit two things against each other to drive sales, so we really have to put effort into looking at all the realities that exist in any given scenario, not just the one of the POV character. To me, the point of that scene was the grief and pain of each, they pain they feel over Bran, the pain they cause each other, their shared love for Bran that could and should connect them, but it doesn’t, because of the situation, their society. Because the reality of Cat’s world and the very real threat Jon is to her children (not because he would ever hurt him, we know he wouldn’t), isn’t widely recognized as a valid thing, people miss the entirety of Cat’s perspective, and the fact that the story isn’t a straight up condemnation of her concerns/feelings. In that specific scene, Cat’s words were cruel, but Martin didn’t intend for the fandom to react the way they did and declare Cat abusive and hate her. (I think he’s far more forgiving of certain things than we are, so I try to remind myself of that.) And, it’s important to the story that Jon is unwanted in Winterfell although he is a beloved brother to most of the Starks. It’s important to the story that his longing for his mother is near the surface, a never satisfied need, even though he’s part of a family with a devoted, caring mother. There are reasons Martin wrote the Cat and Jon interaction the way he did to communicate things to the reader and lay groundwork for other things, and I really don’t think the takeaway was ever meant to be what the fandom has settled on which seems to be: that bitch.

So, I guess the issue here is, sometimes the fandom wants to argue right/wrong when we’re meant to be asking how the author is using this? Why was this included? Do we approve of the author’s choice? Even, we don’t like this so this is what should have happened! And depending on what you’re focusing on or think the next person is arguing, we come to very different conclusions about the characters or about each other based on how we speak about the characters.

Again, I’m flying blind here because I really don’t know the examples you’re thinking of, possibly it was my post about Cat! But, even though I don’t feel that what you described accurately reflects my experience in our fandom, I am going to keep your perspective in mind, as I know I have my own tendencies that predispose me in one direction. I prefer villains where the threat is something other than molestation/sexual assault. That means, even though I know Cersei is a villain, I know she does bad things, in the Sansa context (which is mostly how I view other characters), I find it much easier to deal with Cersei, because I'm not sitting here panicked the entire time. Since the threat she is to Sansa isn't as upsetting to me, I can be more sympathetic. However, now that you’ve mentioned the issue regarding how we treat her, I will try to be self-aware.

I absolutely agree that the author wants us to be sympathetic to all these characters and that, “Our corner of the fandom is loving and kind and usually makes a sincere effort to be fair.” --they really are and do! I have had so much fun in this corner of the fandom.

Thank you for the message, anon. <3

anon this anon is agreeing with

first anon on the abuse victim issue

[mint-yooxgi]

Hey could you pls write a Yandere king Taeil Part 2?🌚😅

Part One

***

As you sit on your once beloved throne, you cannot help the way your heart positively aches in your chest. You have never heard as much begging, as much pleading and cries for mercy as you have today as citizens of your kingdom had been brought into your court in order for Taeil to pass judgement on them. Farmers, merchants, smiths, even your old maids: no one had been spared from his harsh criticisms, proclaiming all those closest to you as rebels.

He’s taken everything from you, and now, he’s taken even more from them.

The sound of the throne room doors slamming shut cuts the sounds of sobs off from reaching your ears, and you nearly crumble to the floor were it not for the arms wrapped so tightly around your waist. You absolutely despise the way you can feel him chuckle from behind you, his head coming to now rest on your shoulder.

“What an eventful day.” He hums, and you nearly gag at the way he leans into you, burying his nose in the side of your neck and practically revelling at having you in his lap on your old throne.

“You disgust me.”

“Now, now,” he tuts with a click of his tongue, “remember what we discussed.”

Ah, yes. The fact that if you go against him in any way, he’ll make your subject’s lives even more of a living hell than he already has. Not to mention the fact that he’s threatened the lives of your closest friends, and you own personal servants he decided to leave alive the first time around.

“You expect me to worship your very existence, to appreciate you as you claim to love me, yet for all your threats you are not wise.” Keeping your head forward, you refuse to even acknowledge him. After all, he forced you to sit silently as he decided the fate of all those that appeared before him today.

You can still hear the screams of the innocent family he had killed right in front of you for trying to defend them against him. Their blood will forever stain your conscious, and all for trying to help.

His eyes flash, “oh?”

“How do you expect to gain my trust, my affection, when all you do is prove time and time again how despicable you are? Do you really think destroying my kingdom grants you any of my favour?”

“That’s why you’re upset?” Taeil guffaws. “Here I was thinking it was something serious... but no, Princess, I’m not worried about that at all. I know that you’ll come around to me soon enough. It doesn’t matter how long it takes. I have you now, and that’s all that matters to me, and soon enough, you’ll come to love me, too. Even if that means you go to your own grave hating yourself for it, you will love me. I’ll make sure of it, if it’s the last thing I ever do.”