#and Mike is just appreciating these facts in a very gay way

[existingonthisplane]

Random idea that I need to say now before I forget but

Ice cream parlor employee Mike x Café Barista Will

Imagine, Mike getting off after work, he’s freezing because for some reason where he works they believe they’ve got to freeze the employees as much as the ice cream.

He decides to stop by the café near his apartment, it’s pretty empty giving the time of night but Will is still there working. Mike can’t help but think he fits in with his warm brown hair and soft looking sweater.

He orders something he can’t remember and spends the rest of his time there staring at the cute guy behind the counter

(I made this TWO days ago and I thought tumblr deleted it, I was so sad, but it’s HERE in a

✨ r e s t o r e d✨

draft!!!! :D )

[bkatlips]

Ranking and explaining my rankings of Mike Flanagan’s shows and how they make me feel in honor of spooky season and just finishing Usher!! Why not!! Everyone else is doing it!! I’m also going to give it a gay score based on how gay they are (which also includes how big of a role gay characters played).

Disclaimer: Every one of these shows is well-made in one way or another and deserves to be watched based on whether someone else finds the premise interesting and not whether I liked the show. Too often I see “that show was bad to me therefore you shouldn’t watch it” and I disagree with that line of thinking.

1. The Haunting of Bly Manor-I can already hear people screaming “Hill House is better!” In some ways, yes! In some very important ways, however, I disagree. The biggest being Bly Manor emotionally resonated with me a lot more. The themes, the found family (as someone who is an only child), and of course, the lesbianism. Dani’s story of compulsory heterosexuality may be one of if not the best in media and her love story with Jamie ended up being one of the best media has to offer, too. And really using a horror story and turning it into a love story is kind of brilliant (and annoying for the people who were just there for the jumpscares I guess). Don’t get me wrong the show has flaws (why the FUCK do Peter and Rebecca have so much screentime? was that eight episode really the best placement?) but the stuff that lands, really really lands. I’m still thinking about Dani and Jamie 3 years later. Hannah’s episode was very well done. The kid actors little Amelie and Ben were phenomenal. Upon rewatch you notice most decisions and dialogue in the show were made with some purpose and it usually relates to something thematic. Some people may say it doesn’t really have one defining central thesis therefore making it messy, but to me the fact it has many themes actually makes it more fun to think about. Gay score: 100000/10

2. The Haunting of Hill House-A horror classic that got me into Flanagan! This is Flanagan’s best series as far as making you pee your pants. That hat man is just scary! The character work is nice. Those first 6 episodes are incredible. Perfect. The thing that brings it under Bly Manor for me is honestly the ending. It left something to be desired for me. I can’t pinpoint exactly what it is, but it just did not conclude in such an emotionally resonant way as Bly Manor to me. Shout out to the Newton Bros because the music on this damn show (and Bly too but that’s basically Hill House music continued) is so so good. Also the character work is masterful because Shirley Crain is kind of a bitch but you do come to love her. In fact, there wasn’t a Crain I didn’t feel for. They’re deeply fucked up, sympathetic people. It’s a great show with some great thematic work but it just doesn’t speak to me quite as much as Bly, that’s it. I know that’s unpopular but it is what it is. A great good show nonetheless. Gay score: 8/10

3. The Fall of the House of Usher-This show is wild and honestly I couldn’t decide between ranking this one or Midnight Club third. I went with this one because the acting and technical stuff was so phenomenal. I’m not really into gore horror so this wasn’t like my thing on the surface but I do appreciate what a homage to Poe it is in the very limited knowledge of Poe’s work that I have. It was fun to see all the cast from previous shows back again especially T’nia. One of the downsides to this show is it doesn’t really make you feel a lot and so compared to the Haunting shows for me that makes it inferior for sure. But it’s a fun watch and honestly I need to rewatch the final episode because I had a hard time paying attention for that one. Gay score: really fucking queer/10

4. The Midnight Club-Ah Flanagan’s little dud. This one is really not very loved compared to the others, seems to be just about nobody’s favorite, however personally I liked it. I think people are a little unfair to it and while it may not be Flanagan’s best, I don’t think it’s awful. It doesn’t really tackle anything new when it comes to themes. There’s some death, grief, stages of acceptance, and cult stuff. I think the way it has these kids telling stories to deal with their reality was really brilliant in a way. There was one episode (six I think) that dealt with depression and suicide that made me sob and I thought was super well done. That one stuck with me.I think it would have benefited from a more likeable main character and also from the second season that was planned! Gay score: 6/10

5. Midnight Mass-To be honest, I probably could have gone without watching this show. It just didn’t really resonate with me and didn’t really entertain me save like the very last two episodes. It’s technically well-made and I appreciate what Flanagan was trying to do and convey with the danger of cults and religion. It was obviously a very personal project and was him working through his own experiences but it wasn’t for me. It had a few too many monologues and I don’t think monologues make an interesting character piece. However, it’s a critically acclaimed work so I recommend anyone who wants to check out Flanagan’s work still check it out! Especially if you like weird vampire stuff I guess. Also the acting especially from the priest was phenomenal. So there’s definitely pros to this show, but it didn’t add anything to my life for me! Gay score: 3/10 :/

Also, shout out to Mike because every single one of these shows is queer to one degree or another. He loves the gays! Ally! Bisexual wife probably helps too!

[spicybylerpolls]

So I just read a really interesting review of the gay WW1 novel In Memoriam, and the reviewer (in a respected newspaper) is describing this adolescent, boyish, somewhat cowardly attraction between the two boys. 

Although they later prove themselves physically brave, Ellwood and Gaunt are cowards in love. Despite being well inducted by other boys into the improvised physical intimacy widely practised at their Wiltshire boarding school, Preshute, their own relationship remains chaste and hesitant: affectionate; Tennysonian; intensely sexless. Both characters are recognisable stock figures of boyish adolescent romance.

Now, it’s well and easy to say such in today’s era when homosexuality isn’t punishable by death, but in terms of Mike and Will, they’re going to explore in fine detail in s5 how and why both Mike and Will have been so careful. But what gets my eye is the mature way of discussing sex. If anything, works are often taken LESS seriously when they are coy about sex, because they suddenly seem embarrassed or childish or Disney-ified. I cannot imagine a more opposite view to the byler sex antis on here, who say, instead, that portrayal of adolescent sex is paedophilic. Can you imagine how you would be dragged to shit by any literary or film critics worth their salt for thinking that? For thinking that teenage sex is inherently bad or paedophilic? 

The review goes on to say:

Both young men torment themselves in attempts to hide their attachment from one another and themselves. It is a losing battle, the first of many they will see as war draws close.

Oof it sounds familiar! 

But mainly, the reviewer (a man) is appreciative of the detail that the author (a female) put into the work as regards sex:

Winn has written against the grain of her “lived experience” in another way too. In addition to not being a veteran of the First World War, some quick detective work in the acknowledgments section of the book reveals that she is also not a homosexual Edwardian adolescent. In fact, she does an intelligent job here too at simulating the male imagination, and although the sex remains carefully speculative, there are occasional observations of striking acuity. (“Gaunt’s prick was a little smaller than his. Ellwood had noticed that a long time ago, at school, had found it ruinously attractive.”)

I want to point out that this last quote comes before these characters engage in any sexual activity together in the book. 

And this comes on the back of the author running the novel by her male gay and bisexual friends for realism before publishing:

‘I had one friend who was really generous and candid about how to make the sex scenes feel real, but also about how to make the characters – outside of the sex – behave more like men. I mean, I don’t want to put too fine a point on this, but I remember at one stage he asked me, “So, who has the bigger penis?” And I was like, “I don’t know!” And he said, “Well, the characters know!”’ 

- Alice Winn

So there we are! Have Mike and Will ever showered together in the gym at school? We see the high school boys do this at Hawkins in s2, but Mike and Will have never been together at high school. Either way, there’s an acknowledgement here of the fact that teenage boys think very differently about sex than girls, and that if you want to create a piece of art that not only is enjoyable and exciting and compelling, but respects its characters and source material, you must be realistic about those character’s thoughts and experiences. I can understand prudishness a little, but to go as far as to call people who are calling for sexual realism in a coming of age story paedophiles????????? What is your aim?????? Feel free to be afraid of sex until you can figure it out, but do not call others who are engaging with something natural and normal perverts and degenerates. It’s not just cruel, but completely ignorant. 

In short, Mike and Will have definitely thought about and possibly know who has the bigger penis - and yes, they’re also very interested in that topic. 

Okay first of all, I'm definitely adding that book to my reading list! I love queer coming-of-age period pieces. Thanks for your service to the spicy byler community!

Second of all, this brings up a lot of interesting points. I especially love your point that, "If you want to create a piece of art that not only is enjoyable and exciting and compelling, but respects its characters and source material, you must be realistic about those character’s thoughts and experiences." So true! I think Bylers are typically really good at understanding this concept, but for whatever reason they completely throw that out the window once sex is in the picture.

"In short, Mike and Will have definitely thought about and possibly know who has the bigger penis - and yes, they’re also very interested in that topic."

[kitwilsonsass]

How can we let WWE know that Pretty Deadly have won the hearts of another fandom that is completely unrelated to sports and also that Kit and Elton have been fan cast for the roles of two major characters from a Tolkien book? 😄

If I may also add that prior to watching that Magic Mike video, I thought that Elton was the more graceful one of the two but now I think it's definitely Kit. He did a great job with the dance and the entire choreography while Elton seems to have struggled a bit more, especially with the hips moves.

As a person with so much insight, I was wondering how do you think Pretty Deadly are liked amongst wrestling fans? I watched almost every video I could find of them in the past few days and they certainly have their fanbase but they also have detractor (which I guess is normal). I noticed that when they win a match sometimes they are being booed by the public? Or is the audience making the spooky fingers wooo sound?

I still can't believe how two wrestling guys won my heart! The fact that they are so similar to Celegorm and Curufin in appearance and in character definitely helped but now I also love them for themselves because they are so hilarious and entertaining and such good friends! I am eager to know as much about them as possible!

lmao, I mean... you could tweet them... though they've heard 'Legolas' so many times and begrudgingly meme'd about it that they might not want to know. But they do have twitters! And they'd probably love more fanart and shit! Who knows. They might appreciate the deeper dive reference.

Also it's funny, I could talk about their physicality for like an hour. I think Kit tends to be a little stiffer than Elton, which lends better for Elton for like... jumps and shit. But I think Kit is better with like, motions. Like actual muscle manipulation? idk. He used to have a lot of weird shit in his moveset.

"so much insight" adjsajdsljsdllalkdj thanks

So, I guess, idk, two things -

1.) They're heels/bad guys. Them being booed is expected and actually a good thing, that's their job. That means they're doing it well. Silence is the worst reaction they could get. There's actually a big chunk of like, long term fans who make comments like "Wow, I actually genuinely hate these guys... and that's a good thing." and that's just absolutely true. They're vain, they cheat, they're there to make the good guys look better. It's not super often in this day and age that a tag team makes people feel some type of way like that, and a lot of those same people will tell you they feel like they came out of the 80s for that reason. There's a lot about them in both character and just overall presentation, and the stuff they do in the ring, that appeals to like, actual fans of different eras, and not just a modern fanbase.

But like 2.) The "Main Roster" so to speak of the 'E is.... difficult. Because half the fanbase aren't those fans, they're casual fans or a younger audience. And unfortunately, since they were brought off the developmental show (which primarily has a very loyal unique audience and is almost always broadcast from the same building as opposed to on the road), and also because there was an injury early in the run, they got kind of... stunted, I think. They kind of went from one of their biggest up and coming acts to being pushed to the sidelines. So you end up with half a crowd that doesn't "get it" so to speak, or just dislikes them because... well... a lot of wrestling still appeals to a less than great crowd and they're the effeminate English guys and like, das gay, bro. So I think if you're watching stuff from Smackdown in particular, the reaction to them is a little unfortunate, and I'm hoping that changes soon because there's some new teams on the show after the past couple weeks and maybe they'll finally get a new storyline to work with to kinda re-introduce them.

Anyway I am glad you love them.

I love that they bonded over having the shittiest favorite Friends character. And that they claim the first thing they did in public after lockdown ended was do the stupid Dirty Dancing lift in the middle of the street in front of their girlfriends. Goals tbh.

Also some of my favorite things said about them besides Elves comparisons is "Didn't Ramona Flowers date both of these guys at the same time?" and "These guys remind me of Sailor Moon villains." Like ah, yes, they are exactly my Type.

[knownbyanothername]

I saw the FNAF movie awhile back and thought I'd put down some of my thoughts on it. Spoilers down below.

On one hand, I can kind of understand why if I was a critic who had no attachment, let alone knowledge of FNAF, that I might rate this film really low. Not only would it be a thing of, I guess no 'bias', but the flaws in the film would stand out way more to me… however, the thing is, as a person who is, on some level, familiar with FNAF, and has some attachment to it through at least the people who are close to me… yeah, I enjoyed this film a great deal, actually. Maybe it could be said to be bias– but I can tell there's far more heart in the making of this film than the 18321612893961328968123698123132th disney remake with a minor gay character.

I feel like I need need NEEEEEED to make special mention OF the design of this film in general? Like oh my god. Maybe I would have liked it to be a bit too authentic– how it was shot gave me some very… 'modern' vibes that for a moment I mistakenly thought it was more like the modern 2020s instead of… I think the late 90s/early 2000s? Otherwise, though, the cinematography of this film is so GOOD. Every scene is a delight and I never found myself bored– especially with how they designed the Pizzaria oh my goddddddd……. Not to mention THE ANIMATRONICS THE FACT THEY MADE ACTUAL ANIMATRONICS AND SUITS AND DIDNT USE CGI LIKE. THAT IN OF ITSELF IS A HUGE DELIGHT.

Also… okay, on one hand, the acting can sometimes be… a little hoaky. Like there were some parts where I thought that there could have been a second take. However, otherwise, most of it was really solid! I especially loved the actor for Michael– he did extremely well during the movie and carried it, along with William Afton just… I make a chef kiss motion. The second half of the movie was just fantastic– and on a rewatch I actually really appreciated how nervous he was when he read Mike's last name like, 'oh, shit, it's this kid'. In any case the acting wasn't terrible and was really fun at times.

Now, much like with the acting, I did think the writing could have… used another go around. It's not like god awful to me or anything but there's a lot of repetition, a lot of 'this information could have been stated in a more efficient way or you should have trusted that your audience got the point the first time around', and also a lot of… I think wasted screen time that could have been spent on stuff like the animatronics and Michael and Abby (love her so much). That being said: Oh My God Michael Fans Are Eating Well and So Am I. For a character that never had that much official depth to him they did a fantastic job with him.

Overall: I have to conclude that the movie… distinctly is made for a certain type of audience, obviously– for fans of FNAF, which isn't exactly a small audience. Saying 'I can understand why outside critics wouldn't like it' is like saying 'well I can see why someone who doesn't usually drink wine wouldn't like this one'-- like, yes, objectively, they can have their opinion… but it isn't made for them. Now, granted, people who do like FNAF can still have their opinion on it… but idk, there's so much stuff out there that is a more 'ideal, scary, and mature' take on this property (not derogatory) that like I can appreciate the film series– and it makes me excited for the sequel. I was even able to appreciate it even more on a second watch. Overall, I can give this film a solid 3/5.

[shamelessrabbithole]

English isn’t my first language, so I’m sorry for any mistakes in advance.

About Cameron and Madison — I wanted to throw some words too.

First of all, Madison is, of course, a dancer. We can call her an artist, and this is important. A lot of artists (and I’m saying this as one) need something or someone that will give them the “drive” to create whatever they are creating. For Madison, I’d say, it would be people who bring her that drive and desire to create.

All of the examples are taken from her Instagram.

In 2021, Feb. 14, she made a post and tagged @miketyus, dancer and choreographer, saying how he makes her “most alive”.

In 2023, Feb. 4, she made a shared post with @marcopalomino and titled it “You came into my life like a gift from the soul”.

In 2022, Sept. 20, she talks about “constant awe of the love” she feels “around her and within her”.

In 2023, Feb. 13, again, she mentions love. Caption says “Hold on tight, falling in love is quite a ride”.

If you look more into her, you can see how she mentions the word “love” a lot. Sometimes even writes it in capital letters. I think, that this particular word and feeling isn’t something very… special. It’s something constant, that surrounds her everywhere: friends, family, fellow artists, a lot of people.

Secondly, she is pretty much okay for being close to different men. I don’t mean in the “lovers” way. She has a lot of male friends who she is close in physical way, specifically — dancing. Sometimes — naked. She is fully okay with nudity. If you scroll far enough on her Instagram, there are a lot of naked bodies near each other, close to each other or even on top of each other (example — Oct. 2, 2020)

Honorable mentions to posts made on Dec. 16, 2023 (the second picture); Sep. 20, 2018; Jul. 23, 2016. These looked pretty much… couple-y, don’t you think? I think, even more couple-y like the churros picture or the one from the theater we got recently.

Also, I’d love to draw your attention to Derion Loman, Madison’s long-time dancing partner. She has a lot of videos with him, a lot of dances they shared together, and, I hope I’m not wrong here, the latest picture from her story shows him too. They share the same vibe, if you check his Instagram account. He even looks like a better match to her than Cameron.

We can make a conclusion that she is comfortable with being both naked and dressed and affectionate with other men. For her, nudity isn’t something sexual. It’s just… a body.

Now, Cameron. We already know a lot about him, we don’t need a deep dive, but what is the similarities between him and Madison? Both artists, yes. Both make very interesting artistic choices (and, as for me, Madison does it much better). And, well… both are okay with nudity. Remember how many pictures of either fully nude or semi-nude pictures of women Cameron had been taken recently? This is what I’m talking about.

I also would like to mention, how his pictures with Madison (the ones when they are together, not taking pictures of each other) look don’t look romantic. Check out the pictures I’ve listed in the “honorable mentions”. Photos with Cameron aren’t even that close.

I can read Madison being “one of the boys”, while Cameron is “one of the girls” type of people, and I mean it in the nicest way possible. I believe in platonic relationship between men and women and believe even stronger that they are “inspiration” for each other in their artistic journey. Madison has a lot of friends like that. Cameron isn’t someone special.

Call me delusional, crazy or literally any name, I can take it. Thanks for reading, appreciate it.

No problem. Thank you for taking the time to write in. Here are screenshots of every post you referenced as well as the honorable mentions.

Derion, Luca, Nick, and Mike are all either confirmed gay or very closely hinting it on their social media. In fact, Mike and Luca are coupled partners who live together in NY.

I think what you’re suggesting, though, is that she’s in the same platonic but loving type of relationship with Cameron as she is with these other guys. I guess I would buy that if Cam was confirmed gay or if she’d spent as much time, almost nonstop, with these other men as she has lately with Cameron.

I hadn’t followed her closely enough before their Asia trip in July to know what her life looked like before Cameron. So I’m no expert or authority on her. I’m just going by logical leaps here. I’m also not digging my heels in, holding on to a position I’m trying to sway others to join. People are free to draw their own conclusions based on what they’re seeing and surmising from these clues on their own. 🙏 😊

[kazumahashimoto]

in no particular order i'm just bored

- MIKE DALLAS. i wrote a whole thing on this ages ago and i'm currently on s12 in my bilionth rewatch so dallas is in his flop era rn but dear god. i just think it would have been funnier if the joking gay tension between him and drew was real. all of his relationships would be enhanced if he were bisexual. his friendship with adam, with fiona, his relationship with ALLI!!!!!!!! just everything. also he's one of my favorite characters.

- DREW TORRES. ^ the joke tension would have been funnier. also it would have added something to the very bizarre way he acted towards riley in his first season. like idk closet gay vs closet bisexual duking it out to see who will snap first. also i just think he could have played the bisexual and everybody wants him type better than miles. also added dimension to HIS friendship and brotherhood with adam, his friendship with fiona, his eventual reconciliation with alli via dallas. his relationship with bianca. ough. like they'd just have so much more to work with.

- JANE VAUGHN. i mean i just generally don't love the way they changed her fashion as time went on like had they not done her hair like that her emo era would have been so good. i'm gonna start a tangent here and maybe pick it up later, but degrassi consistently did this thing where they were afraid to commit to a butch character. or, on occasion, they could commit to a butch! but she had to be straight. and sure, the argument is there, not all lesbians are butch, not all masculine women and girls are lesbian, but the ONE time (before rasha) they dipped their toes into having a more Generally masculine wlw character she still had to have lovely long hair and wear a full face of makeup, the only thing that really made her look masculine was the fact that she wore pants and her hair up, and shortened her name to jack. but then their other two characters that looked way more gnc than jack needed to be made into a Point that they were straight. which is just like. i Guess. i guess with jane they were trying to say "you don't have to be a lesbian to want to play football with the boys" but the argument should just be "gender neutral sports". anyway. jane shoulda been bisexual and stayed butch.

- MAYA MATLIN AND ZIG NOVAK. i'm putting them together cos they might as well be one person. listen. bi4bi zaya just would have been more interesting. and again as per usual it enhances their relationships to other characters. i know zoe's actress has talked about how she kind of wanted the final reveal with zoe to be that she had a crush on maya the whole time and IMAGINE if maya was bi and there was an actual conflict over if she wanted to pursue that relationship or stay with zig. obsessed!!!!!! and idk the friendship of a pathetic mess of a bisexual boy with a masc goth punk girl is fun. added dimension to zig's friendship with grace. even if maya and zig still got together in the end it would just be more fun. straight zaya is impossibly boring. the added amount of drama from the whole zoe crush on grace grace crush on zig zig dating maya zoe still harboring old feelings for maya cheating debacle. awesome. MESSY bisexuals.

- ELLIE NASH. dear god the amount of shit they put her through with boys. ANNOYING!!!!!!!!!!! literally why not whip out the paige/ellie wild card. WHY NOT!!!!!! also she was goth.

HONORABLE MENTIONS: HOLLY J SINCLAIR, GRACE CARDINAL. i can appreciate them as they are and what they mean, i.e. straight girls can be bffs with lesbians and there's no reason they can't, but also consider this: they would have made fun bisexuals. also grace did what they tried to do with jack 100000000% better.

OVERALL!!! degrassi has like SEVERELY underutilized bisexuality as a plot point. i talked about this a while back, but the first bisexual girl they had was paige in like season 6 or 7, and the first bisexual they had was MILES FUCKING HOLLINGSWORTH THE THIRD!!!!!!!!! IN SEASON 13?!?!?!?!? the only other MAIN bisexual character they had was. imogen? and i think that's literally it? like it's crazy. honestly with they way they do romance in this show you'd think making more of them bisexual would just add more drama to things in a fun way but no. we're left with basically nothing. SAD!

top ten characters in degrassi that would have benefitted from being bisexual

[benisasoftboi]

Horrible Histories Was So Goddamn Funny

Okay, so. Most of the jokes in Horrible Histories were pretty surface level. Which is fine, because ‘surface level’ is not the same thing as ‘unfunny’, and also it was for children. But every so often there was something that only got funnier the more you thought about it.

In Horrible Histories, sketches were often based around a show-specific trope I call the Unremarkable Time Traveler. A sketch would be set in a modern day school, or hospital, or pet shop, or whatever, and the whole thing would revolve around someone from the past showing up and trying to get the modern people to do things the historical way. So an Ancient Greek doctor’s working at the hospital, or the school’s hired a Victorian headmaster, that sort of thing. The whole joke of these sketches is very British - it’s an Absurdity interacting with the Mundane, but the Mundane’s reactions to the Absurdity never address the core strangeness of the situation (i.e. an Ancient Athenian practicing medicine in a 21st century hospital), but instead only object to the inconveniences it causes (i.e. his outdated medical practices not working). You see this sort of thing all the time in British comedies, especially classic ones. The Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy is built on this.

So when you first watch the Historical Paramedics sketches, you have every reason to believe that this is just another Unremarkable Time Traveler situation. Two guys claiming to be from the Stuart/Victorian/etc. era show up, try their weird old medicine on people, and leave. Except.

EXCEPT. 

In the other Unremarkable Time Traveler cases, they’re never the same people. It’s different every time. But with the Paramedics, it’s always the same two guys. Now, you might say ‘hey, no! This show stars a troupe of character actors, they’re constantly doubling up on roles, it’s just the same actors playing different characters!’ To which I say no! Do not presume you know more than me about this! It is, without a doubt, the same two guys! Because the Historical Paramedics have names:

(They are also, apparently, a couple)

Horrible Histories has tonnes of running characters that transcend era, but most of them are modern-era characters (Mike Peabody, Cliff Whiteley, the host of Historical Fashion Fix, etc.) who talk about or interact with the Time Travelers, or in Mike’s case, are themselves Time Travelers. The Grim Reaper, as an immortal being, is basically the only exception (and I guess the Shouty Man, but he’s really just a representation of a concept). Which makes Jeff and Nigel a bit of an anomaly, being named, recurring characters... from all manner of historical eras. What’s up with that? 

Perhaps they are immortals, like the Grim Reaper, living through all of history, but popping in and out of our modern era from time to time, by whatever method the other Time Travelers also use? Could be, but I don’t think so. Jeff and Nigel are uniquely aware that their actions are not appreciated in the modern era, as demonstrated by the fact that they always run away before the real paramedics arrive. So I propose a different theory:

The Historical Paramedics are actually modern-era characters.

Jeff and Nigel are not Unremarkable Time Travelers. They are, in fact, history enthusiasts who have always lived in the late 20th/early 21st century, have somehow got their hands on an ambulance scanner, and, instead of handing it in to the authorities, are using it to harass the sick and injured while wearing silly costumes. 

In other words, these two are perhaps the truest embodiments of Be Gay, Do Crime in all of televised media. 

This show was so great, you guys.

(It is, admittedly, the tiniest, slightest bit possible that none of this was intentional and I have brainrot. But I don’t think that’s the case, do you? And even if it is, this idea still makes an already funny sketch that much funnier, doesn’t it? Yes. Of course it does. I knew you’d understand.)

[thranduel]

This may be a hot take but i think the way the Duffers and some actors talked about Mike's monologue was a bit insensitive. They know that Will, a traumatized gay child, had to push this confession and watched it with tears in his eyes, and yet nobody seemed to acknowledge this fact. I know that they probably do not want to spoil anything, but this is something that bothers me a bit. Any thoughts on that?

OH YES i completely agree!!

like i obviously i understand they can’t say anything major because of spoilers, and i get that they have to go along with the mike being in love with el storyline because that’s what the characters think and what the viewers are supposed to think at this point as well, but it’s very weird to me that no one mentions will AT ALL when talking about mike’s monologue when he is literally the reason it happened in the first place? like not even a “thank you will for making this happen”? not even acknowledging how strong mike and will’s relationship is (regardless of whether people see it as platonic or romantic), and how mike felt comfortable enough to talk to will about his insecurities and will instantly made him feel strong and loved by confessing his own love for him and giving him the painting that he made for him?? like no one even wants to acknowledge their relationship at all and how will is the person that inspired mike to say “i love you” and it’s so weird to me.

and seriously, if they wanted to make the monologue a big moment for mike and el and no one else, fine. but they never should’ve involved will and messed with his feelings. they never should’ve used him as a plot device to force another couple back together. they never should’ve confirmed he’s been in love with mike since the beginning if it was going to be unrequited. people have every right to be angry because it’s messed up, cruel and unnecessary. they could’ve easily avoided including will in this storyline but they didn’t. they could’ve given him another love interest and allowed him to be happy for once in his life, but they didn’t. and worse, they made him sit there and listen to the confession knowing how hard it would’ve been for him? and obviously in that moment he was worried for el’s safety too, i am not ignoring that at all. but he was also breaking inside while listening to the boy he’s loved for most of his life confess to someone else, and there’s no doubt about that. there was a specific shot where mike copies what will told him in the car (about being scared to lose someone and how bad it would hurt) and it shows will turning to look directly at mike with tears in his eyes right as he says this, emphasising how much it hurt to hear him say that. they knew exactly what they were doing here and it was intentional.

and maybe i’m just very defensive when it comes to will because he’s my comfort character and this whole storyline and his suffering hits hard but a little bit of gratitude would be nice after everything he’s sacrificed?? like he’s literally the reason why this relationship still exists. they were on the verge of a break up and pretty much realised it wasn’t working because they don’t communicate properly and can’t be themselves with each other, but then will lied in the van and mike thought he was talking about el.

will is the one that inspired mike, gave him strength and made him feel loved. it was his OWN feelings and his OWN painting that changed everything, but he used el’s name to disguise it. that’s the only reason why mike felt ready to confess to el, because he thought it was her feelings and that the painting was her idea when it WASN’T. it was all will.

even when el was on the table choking, will had to push mike to say it. mike wouldn’t have been able to do any of this without will. and that’s not a spoiler, so i don’t understand why the cast, writers and other viewers can’t acknowledge it and show appreciation for will when talking about the monologue? and yeah, i know some people might say “it was mike and el’s moment”, but that’s the thing… the moment they decided to involve will in this storyline and confirm he’s been in love with mike since the beginning, it stopped being just about mike and el. they chose to put will in EVERY single mike and el scene (except their fight). they chose to make WILL be the reason that mike says “i love you”. el couldn’t even make him say it when she was crying and begging him to say it. she couldn’t make him say it when she was showing him affection and kissing him and sending him letters. he couldn’t even write the words “love, mike” on PAPER. but will’s OWN feelings and painting is what made mike finally able to say it. the writers are the ones that literally chose that. people aren’t mentioning will for no reason or ignoring mike and el’s moments or trying to invalidate them, but will has literally been shoved in this storyline and in all their scenes for a reason.

that’s why it feels really insulting when people ignore will and don’t appreciate him for this when he’s suffering so much and feels like he’ll never be loved back and that he’s a mistake for being gay. he was literally having a breakdown in that car because he sacrificed his own feelings just to help their relationship. THAT is how kind and selfless he is. after everything he’s suffered, he still puts people before him, and people still don’t want to acknowledge him or thank him? they say things like “mike’s love for el saved the day” (which is… kinda awkward because they didn’t win) and that the monologue was so “beautiful and genuine” (even though he was pressured into saying it and lied during most of it) and act like mike is such an amazing boyfriend for FINALLY saying it after years when will is the one that motivated him to say it in the first place?? and did people forget el literally had a breakdown because he couldn’t say it to her a face a few episodes earlier when she was practically begging him to? he made her cry and she felt like a monster and he didn’t do anything until that scene in the van with will.

if they wanted to make the monologue about mike and el, fine. if they wanted them to have a big forced love confession, fine. but they never should’ve involved will. it’s so simple. they could’ve easily avoided using him as a plot device because it’s so cruel and unnecessary. that’s why it really hurts when people compliment the monologue scene without mentioning will, even just a tiny bit of acknowledgment, because he’s the person who made it happen in the first place. it’s like he’s being ignored AGAIN, as always, while everyone else gets credit and gets to be happy in their relationship and hear what they’ve wanted to hear for so long, while will gets left with absolutely nothing. not even a “thank you”. he has been abused, bullied traumatised and suffered since he was a child and he still has nothing. it’s heartbreaking.

[maydaybraids]

I feel like I’m the only one who really appreciated Will’s monologue explaining the painting to Mike. It’s actually really disheartening to see everyone saying that they are upset by it and how it was used to further Mike and Eleven’s relationship. If you think that, you’re missing the point that this was a really great scene showing the experience of a gay boy who is still processing his own sexuality in the 1980s completely on his own.

Let me break this down: at this point we know that Will is gay and has feelings for Mike. Will is complex and his character from the first episode has been highlighted as being emotionally intelligent beyond his years. That being said, they haven’t actually told us that. To me this suggests that Will is still figuring this out himself and the painting monologue was a huge part of him processing and accepting it. Additionally, you cannot expect Mike, the hard headed dude who can’t process simple emotions, to be able to pick up on anything that Will subtly hints towards. That’s just not the character that makes up Mike.

In my personal experience, I developed feelings for a friend before I knew what sexuality even was. I grew up extremely sheltered from gay relationships and was extremely confused and frustrated that I couldn’t figure out what was going on. I grew slightly possessive and jealous of my friend when she would spend more time with other people. She started to question why and I immediately threw up walls and pretended like I never felt that way. I can only imagine that this situation isn’t as common as it once was. I know it still happens but let flashback to Robin worrying about asking the wrong girl out and being outed and ostracized. Contextually, it makes sense that Will does not fully come out to Mike or tell him how he feels. One, he feels hated by the world and two, he doesn’t want Mike to look at him differently. It wouldn’t make sense for this to be moving slowly. I mean for fucks sake, they are only freshmen in high school. I didn’t even accept my sexuality until I was 25!

The scene with Jonathan at Surfer Boy just highlights the fact that Will has been very much forgotten and left behind, even by his family. El’s lack of friends is highlighted but if you look close, it kind of seems like Will hasn’t really made any either. And his best friend who was always the one who checked in on him is pulling away even more. Will and Mike’s friendship was always Mike chasing after Will and in season three we see Will’s distraught over Mike pulling away. And even though they reconciled at the end of that season, season four told us that Mike has pulled away even further. (Now is that because he is somewhat aware of Will’s feelings and maybe unsure of how to handle that with a potential for somewhat requited feelings? I believe so.)

I personally think it would be a disservice to a portrayal of a queer experience to undermine Will’s painting monologue as simple plot device for a straight relationship. Will love El and Mike. More than anything, he wants to comfort Mike and for him to be happy. So he used the painting to do that. But I’m the midst of it he got caught up in processing his own experience and emotions. That’s the whole reason that he started getting teary eyed. He was upset that Mike is with Eleven. He was upset because this is probably the first he ever been able to put into words what he is going through. It was a cathartic release and a moment I really resonated with and felt because I have been there! That was a big first step on my journey to self acceptance in my sexuality.

OKAY what I would like to see happen in the future but also just don’t know if we will have time for it in Will’s journey to self acceptance: Will and Mike do have a chat and Will comes out to Mike and admits his feelings but knows, accepts, and communicates that 1) even if Mike in some way reciprocates the feelings, that he is not at a place of self acceptance where any type of healthy romantic relationship is viable and 2) Will doesn’t actually want a relationship with Mike because he has recognized that it would never be what he wants it to be because of romanticizing the whole thing.

In the end, Will is able to use this as a development situation where he fully comes to terms with his sexuality. Simultaneously, Mike begins this process. Together, they remain very good friends that have come to terms with their differences in situation but look beyond that because their bond goes beyond that of any thing romantic or friendship. Maybe down the line we see them in a relationship later in life ala Harry Potter epilogue style.

I think the prioritizing self acceptance and portraying the differences in that process of coming out to yourself versus the ones around you could be so freaking impactful to the community as a whole. It also would just be so great to see gays who have feelings for each other accept this but recognize that they aren’t ready for an actual relationship and may never be but use it to develop themselves.

If complex queers and their relationships is what you want, this is a great example of movement towards that. That it’s not just about the relationships themselves anymore. We’ve achieved that. Now it’s about the complexities of those individuals and relationships that make them different and harder to navigate than straight ones.

In conclusion, Will Byers in season four is the perfect example of the representation that we need.

[will80sbyers]

The painting van scene is incredibly heartbreaking but at the same time, it's so so beautiful. The camera work, the acting, the words Will say to Mike (as painful as they are), the colors, the landscape, Jonathan realizing what Will is referring to... So many elements that work so well together. I know we were all shocked by it but when we look back in a few years, it will be remembered as an iconic scene on ST for sure.

I agree!! It's a really stunning scene, I've rewatched it a lot since first seeing it! I personally was way more disappointed by the fact that they made the conversation with Jonathan very coded but not for the show per se but because I knew that the reaction of the public would be denying that it means that Will is gay... but rewatching the show with the assumption that byler will happen made me appreciate volume two a lot more! The only really ugly scene is Mike's monologue but not even because of the fact that he says ily but because I just find it badly written and if Mitskivan is endgame it's awful to do to a romantic pair imo... but Idk I still think they are building up byler and trying to destroy Mike x El in season 4 at the same time so it makes sense to do a gloriously beautiful coded love confession scene for Byler in the van and contrast it with the ugliest love confession of Mike to El

[hawkinsschoolcounselor]

ok seeing you of all people being shook and starting to doubt has seriously thrown me… I am now super sad. I am debating skipping the season and ditching the show altogether. I am tired of being queerbaited, don’t wanna sit through it again. don’t wanna watch a gay character be sad and gay and pining over someone only to get rejected and the het teens be propped up. pass. it’s 2022. don’t wanna support that shit anymore

Alright, deep breaths. In & Out. In & Out.

Count to ten.

Ok, ready.

I apologize. It was a very rough day at work today. One of the kids was extremely emotional, and, for an empath like me, that can have a profound impact on my mood. I was definitely not in my best, most logical, frame of mind when I was checking this stuff out.

I do have a big fear of being queerbaited, or simply even just having a gay character, particularly a gay teen, end up sad and alone or with some token, undeveloped love interest. That's a personal issue of mine that has, understandably, influenced my reception to certain things about media, including Stranger Things.

I want to look at what we've had lately in a more rationale way, though.

We've had a bunch of interviews, at least one of which was actually done a while ago, but only now just printed.

In these interviews, Mike and El's relationship in season 4 is spoken about using some very interesting language. They are described as being "married, with no possibility of divorce," "they don't have a normal life and this is the way it is for them," and "they haven't had anyone else to like." In another interview, Finn describes El like "a piece of you that you can't get off of you" and "a leech." It was said jokingly, but it's a very odd turn of phrase. None of it sounds romantic, regardless of how often either of them claim Mike and El are in love.

It sounds like they're just resigned to each other, as if there simply isn't any other option. They could only ever have each other.

This makes their goodbye scene in season 3 make a lot more sense, actually. El, feeling everything falling apart, reaches back for Mike in a way that surprises him. He clearly wasn't expecting it, and, in fact, didn't appear to want it. His freakout can now be explained in a different way.

"Oh, shit. She says she loves me, too. What the hell do I do now?"

Mike can't break up with her. She'd be devastated. He's all she has, and she already lost Hopper. I don't know if Mike had any gay revelation at that point anymore, but I do think he realized how utterly screwed he was. He cares far too much for El to hurt her, and so he now feel like he's, well, stuck. He screwed up by saying he loved her in the first place, something she was never meant to hear.

Now he comes to visit. El is very excited, possibly the happiest she's been since she left. What's Mike to do? In his mind, he has no choice but to do the expected thing. He's going to be the good boyfriend to her, giving her whatever it is that need needs.

His and El's relationship is already just like his parents' relationship. One can assume that Karen and Ted loved each other, or at least though they did, at one point. The problem was that neither one ever took the step of recognizing the relationship was never meant to be. Nancy noticed it with Steve, so she ended it. Steve was broken up, as he really did like her, but he got over it, even learning to appreciate Nancy in a non-romantic way.

Mike hasn't learned this. Yet.

We know that Jonathan and Mike will have some moments together. Finn had mentioned that he shared a lot of scenes with Charlie (obviously) and that people would be checking up on Mike. It's reasonable to think that Jonathan might have a man-to-man with Mike. Jonathan is aware that Karen and Ted are miserable together. Nancy told him all about it. I think Jonathan might pick up on something being wrong, and he might be able to get things out of Mike that he's not willing to say to anyone else.

Jonathan is also El's big brother now. He doesn't want to see El get hurt. Unfortunately, unbeknownst to Mike, she's more likely to be hurt in the long term by being in an empty relationship than she is by being set free.

Regardless of what happens with Mike and Will, the situation with Mike and El needs to be resolved. They do not appear to be in love. El feels like she has no other option, and Mike is so afraid of hurting her that he's going to just go along with it. He might be dealing with some other stuff, yes, but that would just be in addition to him feeling obligated to being with El.

It's a very sad situation, actually, but it can all work out for the best with the one thing that Mike has been bad at.

Honesty.

Stop lying, Mike.

As for the whole situation with Will, well...

He was twice described as being a third wheel to Mike and El in Noah's newest interview. That's not terribly unusual in and of itself. In fact, it really does go along with what we saw in the trailer. What makes me think is the fact that Noah brought it up the second time when asked about Will's own chances at romance. This is an unforced reference. He answered by mentioning it's the same old Will, always struggling to find a relationship. When did Will ever seem to do that? He says we see that, referring to him struggling to find a relationship, by him third wheeling. That makes little sense, even from a teenager. He linked the two situations together.

Yes, if one struggles to find a relationship, they may end up being stuck as a third wheel. However, we've never seen Will pursue a relationship. Not in any explicit manner, anyway. If we combine this with that fact that he's "struggling to find himself," then we see a clearer picture.

Will is realizing he's gay. He may have had the feelings all along, but this might be the start to him actually be aware of what it is. Being a third wheel is never fun, but for Will it will be particularly rough because he will realize, maybe for the first time, maybe not, that the one he wants is already taken. It's only ever been Mike having a girlfriend that has bothered him.

So, yeah, a mild freakout earlier caused by a rough day at work. Now that I'm home and calm, I'm able to look at this information more rationally. What we hear from them still does fit the narrative. I can't say with any certainty anymore that I know where they're going with it, but they haven't broken the narrative, yet. Not yet, anyway.

[demadogs]

Honestly I would have no byler doubt at all if it wasn’t for the damn monologue. I know it’s been analyzed to death on why it wasn’t completely genuine and it does make sense but then I start to think why the duffers would even do the monologue in the first place if they were going to breakup marijuana next season. I keep thinking of when they hyped it up before vol 2 came out and said it’s Finn’s best performance. It’s driving me crazy because the way it was set up with using Will’s feelings for Mike to even be able to tell El he loves her means they really fucked up if it isn’t actually a setup for byler to happen next season. If they really just used Will’s love for Mike as something to get McNugget back together I’ll be so upset. :(

i understand your thought process and i did completely agree with you at one point but i think ive grown to actually appreciate the purpose of this monologue. i do however still think el should have broken up with him this season for sure.

to answer what the point of it was if theyre just gonna break up anyway, i think it was entirely for el’s arc. for her to realize that she’s finally heard those words she needed to hear but it didnt change anything. she still wasnt happy. we see that based on the fact that they share zero dialogue and barely acknowledge each other after that scene. youd expect her to hug and kiss him and say she loves him too but she didnt. i dont think she believed it because the only other time he said he loved her was also a tense life or death situation. he cant say it just casually.

also just the ratio of byler to mlvn evidence just points so aggressively towards byler that even on july 1st i wasnt even thinking “we got queerbaited :(“ i was just astronomically confused because the way they set up volume 1 it completely looked like mlvn was bones ESPECIALLY considering it wasnt just “look!! byler!!” it was also “look at all of mlvns problems!!”. and that couldnt have been queerbait because THEY DIDNT KNOW ITD BE IN TWO PARTS!!!!!!!!! so its not like they were like “ok lets build up byler and gain an audience for a month and then redeem mlvn”. they didnt know they would be doing that when they were still in production.

in just volume one we got (and these are just the biggies not everything) a very shitty “im not gay” bro tap instead of a hug after not seeing his best friend for months, el lying to him about being so happy and having so many friends in lenora because shes insecure about their relationship, mike being so fake too by avoiding eye contact with her and not seeming that engaged in whats going on the way she is, ignoring will but then listing off all these things he noticed, INSISTING that theyre just friends even tho will didnt even imply that he meant anything romantic, a track called IN THE CLOSET playing when MIKE SPEAKS, mike and els fight and el crying because he never says he loves her and he kinda gaslights her and turns it back around to the bullies and mouth breathers, “its hawkins its not the same without you”, the tripple take. theres literally so much.

ALLLLL that doesnt get erased just from one scene. and again, it wasnt initially intended to be in two parts so no, their thought process could not have been queerbaiting for why there was so much byler in volume one and not two.

i understand why the duffers said this was finns best performance. this would probably be an incredibly difficult thing to act out. its not just a love confession, its a love confession that he doesnt mean. but the audience doesnt know that. it couldnt be so obvious that EVERYONE immediately picks up on it being fake buts its still gotta be a little suspicious. he needed to put just the right amount of emotion so people may like it but also start to question it.

also his micro expressions are really good. this is not the face of someone about to tell the love of his life his feelings. its someone whos about to do something he doesnt want to do.

i honestly really hope next week we get the script for this scene. even if it doesnt give insight to mikes feelings, seeing el’s pov would also be really interesting. plz vote for it if its an option.

[umm0lly]

~intro post~

*cue drumroll*

pronouns: she/her

name: olly! nicknames are fine, esp from moots <3

nationality: greek-american

birthday: march 2nd. i'm a pisces sun, gemini rising, libra moon, which means i'm a threat to you and your family. yes i like astrology. yes i expect you to deal with it.

age: not for you, besties <3 however since i am a minor i would greatly appreciate if the pornbots stopped following me please and thank you!

sexuality: what are you a cop? but uh i’m cis but i like guys more than girls but i still like girls but uh uhhhhh

fandoms: too many to name. i expect you to know every single acronym. riordanverse (honestly pure nostalgia at this point), SGE (all of them are bi sue me), heartstopper (no YOU became the spring family because of your blog theme), stranger things (stop i am blushing too hard at even the mere MENTION of mike wheeler), mcyt (oh ldshadowlady my beloved), grishaverse (wylan van eck could blow up my house and i'd say sorry), all for the game (andrew minyard you are the most character of all time ever and i would kill and die for you), good omens (david tennant >>>>>>), the hunger games (PLEASE STOP SHOWING ME JOSH HUTCHERSON WHISTLE EDITS), star vs the forces of evil (tom 🤝 hekapoo 🤝 eclipsa = the beginning of my undying love for the hot villains), the lunar chronicles (thorne = the sci-fi version of count olaf), community (giggling at how i cant hear abed speak without hearing huey), ducktales (2017) (giggling at how i cant hear scrooge speak without hearing crowley), phineas and ferb (VANESSA 😍), the umbrella academy (nicky harper you son of a bitch), house md (hilson <3) and WAY too many more that i can't name just dm me and ask me if im in a fandom. i'll probably say yes

adhd? something is very wrong up there but my best guess is severe anxiety and depression. perhaps some symptoms of adhd overlap but this is what im going with

number one blorbo - oo this one is tricky now... okay nico still holds his throne but cmon man i literally CANNOT SHUT UP ABOUT ANDREW MINYARD. nico made me who i am tho.

why are you the rarest person: well first of all it depends on who you ask but pisces is technically the rarest zodiac sign. second of all it is a known fact that i am queer, and that's a very small percentage if you can believe it. third of all, i am an INFJ, which is the rarest personality type in the world. fourth, i am a core 8, which is the rarest enneagram core in the world. last but not least, my temperament is choleric, which is, you guessed it, the rarest temperament. i am also one of the most amazing smart beautiful hot stunning intelligent confident egotistical people you will ever meet and that's rare so haha + add all the mental stuff that combined with everything else makes me the rarest person on earth :)

I DO LOTS OF IRONIC SHIT! assume i am being SILLY in every single thing i say

tag me in every shark post you see because i fucking love sharks.

will @rosiemistyy be the david to my georgia…?

!! old url was solangeloslytherclaw—> geeky-gay-greek —> stringlights-and-headlights —> umm0lly !!

poetry: @ollys-poetry-bullshit

old pinned post

[balillee]

i wanna talk about will byers being gay for a hot minute

the way they portray will being gay feels very 80's, and i definitely do appreciate that his sexuality is portrayed differently than robin's. robin confessed to steve that she liked girls while they were both high off their asses after steve confessed to her that he liked her. both of them weren't thinking straight, and it was a culmination of their arc that season, and that charisma that they shared, and the way robin's sexuality was dealt with (considering she's a side character who isn't exactly going to get her own fully fleshed out romance subplot anyway) is decent to me. steve keeping that secret is important, but what's also important is the disappointment robin felt when she saw vickie with her boyfriend. it felt expected, even if it did come back later that vickie's boyfriend had broken up with her (and she's kinda bi coded, so)

i probably don't know what i'm talking about. i'm a bit of a baby gay - born in 2003, i've been out since i was nine, i'm not exactly mx. nostalgia.

will byers, before anything else, is a good friend. that to me seems to be his most prominent part of his character. he's a good friend, he loves his homies and he wants to hang out with his homies, and he puts that above most things. he just wants to hang out with the homies.

but he very obviously has a crush on mike, and perhaps if this was the modern day, will would at least have had the courage to come out to mike as queer, let alone confess that he likes mike (in the middle of discussing a problem with his girlfriend, which would have been a ballsy move, but i digress). but this isn't the modern day, this is the 80's, and unlucky for him he's completely sober and hasn't spent his day getting tortured for information by a bunch of russians. will knows he's different in that way, and there's no way he can just ask mike if he's okay with gay people. that's risky. he's in small town america in the 80's and knows that he's gay - he already knows what it feels like to be the social pariah, once when he was bullied in middle school, and then later on when he became 'zombie boy'. i doubt he wants to relive that.

so that talk with him and mike in the van to me doesn't seem queerbaity. it seems realistic. not all queer people get their happy endings with the people they have a crush on. that's okay, they'll move on.

i think people do have to be careful talking about queer representation in period pieces because we're always looking at things through a modern lens, especially my generation. we need to remember that these kids from 40 years ago now did not have the privilege to come out at all, and so writing representation can be tricky unless it's a show that focuses on queer people and queer culture from that time (for example, POSE).

i also appreciated how jonathan knew and understood. he didn't explicitly say it and to be honest he didn't need to - he understood will and used that moment of vulnerability to connect with him in a way that we haven't really seen since the first couple of seasons. i genuinely actually missed the byers brothers and i had no idea.

i do think that, going forward, they need to be less vague about it. considering that there will be a season five, it would be very fucking difficult (writing wise and in terms of criticism) about going three seasons of queer-coding will byers without him ever explicitly saying he's gay, or without that part of him never being brought up. i think in general will is a very underutilised character and he's incredibly interesting to look at analytically, and now that he's back in hawkins i want to see more of him, and i specifically want to see him with the other members of the party to further explore that dynamic. and also the fact that he's psychically connected to vecna. that seems like an ever-important detail.

the way they've built up their queer characters in subtle ways, robin by having her blossoming and unexpected friendship with steve get misinterpreted, will being selfless enough to understand that mike is in a relationship of his own with a girl and helping him through their issues despite his own internal struggle with his sexuality and his feelings, seems unique to the modern era. but i think we often forget that this show takes place in small town america in the 80's. there's very likely no accessible queer scene in hawkins. there's no widespread acceptance in the way that we have today, so when you're creating stories in this time you do have to be mindful of the time's politics.

now, the same cannot be said for how they treat the sinclair's - especially the fact that the whole 'billy is a racist' thing got dropped and kind of forgotten about in season 3 (probably because they got scared to touch it) even though it was done pretty decently in season 2, but i think i've come to a point where i understand now that no representation for anyone is ever going to be perfect. will and robin's representation isn't perfect, the sinclair's representation isn't perfect, dustin's representation as a disabled person isn't perfect, even the representation of people like eddie who have unconventional interests and fit into sidelined subcultures - it isn't perfect either. i think the show could do better, but it's not the worst in the world.

[thebrokengate]

Mike and El are the core love story of stranger things. Just because you wanna retcon that doesn’t make it not true. Mike trusted El and took her in before he knew she could help them find will and actively pushed against dustin and especially lucas’s initial negative perception of her. All his actions including calling her pretty showed that he was a boy with a crush so yes it would be retconning to make him gay all along

Mike taking El in that night was just the nice and hospitable thing to do as part of who he is as a caretaking character, but the very same night he was also ready to send her back to "Pennhurst, or wherever she comes from", and that was even the plan until she explained in the only way she could then that getting help would get him killed just like Benny. The same afternoon she tells him this, he learns that she knows about Will, which he then explains to Dustin and Lucas when they come over after school. Right afterwards is also when the three of them learn El has powers for the first time when the conversation of telling Mike's mom about her comes up again. The three characters also all have different approaches to El - Mike being that of understanding and tolerant, Lucas being distrusting and typically cold, and Dustin being somewhere in the middle between both - showing difference of character. But none of this is romantic up to this point. Calling her pretty is also not inherently romantic, either. There's a difference in romantic and aesthetic attraction. For example, there's a number of celebrities I find good-looking, which is aesthetic attraction. But I don't desire emotional intimacy - romantic attraction - with them because I don't and never will know them. I just appreciate their appearance. Aesthetic and romantic attraction do not always go hand in hand with each other. In fact, all three boys were taken aback by her makeover and generally surprised by the difference, so that factors in as well. Even still, disregarding all that, Mike could always be bisexual, too - and if the show went with any label for Mike in a defined relationship with Will in the end, bisexual would be the more likely one because it would be easier to explain to the general audience than how comphet or internalized homophobia works (not to say 100% that they won't and never would, they could still pull it off depending on how they go about it). Though, I have my doubts they would even assign him a label in the show at all as they never state labels, and I believe it's only ever been the cast who have openly used the labels of lesbian for Robin and gay for Will and not the Duffers themselves, but correct me if I'm wrong. Regardless, Mike doesn't ever show signs of romantic interest until it's suggested by Lucas that he must love her because of the careful way he approaches her, which.. if you think about it.. the way he approached her in that season is comparable to how he approached Will in season 2 in a similarly careful way, and in the first episode of season 1 before Will goes missing. Not to mention all the similarities between El and Will that were set up in that season (and the parallels they've had ever since), many characters thinking she was either a boy at first or Will based on her appearance. Kinda screams subconscious projection.

Also, little disclaimer: We can't retcon anything ourselves because we have no control over the course of the events of the show. If this is the story the Duffers are telling (with many hints over the seasons) and it doesn't make sense to you in the end, take it up with them, not us. It will be their job and their job alone to present the story in a way that it all makes sense, not ours. The signs are there, I promise you that.