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sisterofiris · 5 years ago

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Hi! There is a question about the cult of the Greek gods I wanted to ask. Beyond the 12 Olympians plus Persephone and Dionysus, the other gods weren't given much attention or temples, right?

Oh no, they definitely were!

I think one of the big misconceptions people have about Hellenic polytheism is that it is functionally dodekatheism*, that is, the worship of twelve deities. The Twelve are portrayed as central to the religion, with all others being less significant or even forgotten. But this overlooks several elements of Ancient Greek cult.

The first is that, even in Antiquity, nobody could quite agree on who the Twelve were. Was Hestia among them? Was Dionysos? Was Herakles? A lot of the time, “the Twelve Olympians” weren’t even named; so this may have been more of an expression, a nice round number to designate the most important deities while leaving room for local interpretations of who was among them.

It’s certainly true that there are some deities who received more worship than others, and who are better known nowadays because of it. If I were to write an approximate list, it would be the following:

Zeus

Hera

Poseidon

Demeter

Hades

Hestia

Persephone

Hermes

Dionysos

Hephaistos

Athena

Ares

Artemis

Apollon

Aphrodite

Hekate

Herakles

Asklepios

Pan

You’ll notice immediately that there are far more than twelve - nineteen, in fact - and the list could be expanded even further to include deities like the Muses or Eros. My point here is that, while “the Twelve Olympians” was shorthand for the major Gods, to limit cultic importance to just twelve, or even to just Olympians, is disregarding the broadness of the Hellenic pantheon - and the fact that it is polytheism, not dodekatheism. The Ancient Greeks may have called on the Twelve when necessary**, but their worship included many more deities than that.

And this leads on to my second point: the Ancient Greek religion was not orthodox. Each city, town or even village had its own pantheon, composed of the major Olympians, locally important deities, like Aphrodite in Kythera or Artemis in Ephesos, and deities specific to the area, like nymphs and river Gods. This means that Sparta’s pantheon was not the same as Thebes’, Thebes’ pantheon was not the same as Corinth’s, and so on.

As a result, deities that were given minor importance in one place could be given major importance in another. Take Ares, for example: though he had a sanctuary in Athens, he didn’t play a particularly large rule in the local cult outside of war times - but he was highly worshipped in northern Greece. Other than deities, heroes also need to be taken into account: Helen and Menelaus were revered as Gods in Sparta (likely as the remnant of an early cult), though practically everywhere else they were viewed as human and not worshipped. So while it would be accurate to say that Athenians paid far more attention to the Twelve than to Helen, a Spartan would bristle at the thought!

To complicate things further, there’s the matter of epithets. Gods were worshipped under different aspects in different areas, and those aspects were sometimes so different that they blurred the line between “same God, different epithet” and “actually a different God”. For example, Apollon Smitheus was widely worshipped in Anatolia (modern Turkey), and his cult was full of native Anatolian elements. So while it would be factually true to say Apollon was important both in Delphi and in Anatolia, it would be missing the fact that Apollon Smintheus was not important in Delphi.

Lastly, the state cult wasn’t the only influence on how much a deity was worshipped. Circumstances also mattered: the Agathos Daimon was central to the household cult, a sailor might give special honours to Nereus, a pregnant woman might give most of her offerings to Eileithyia, and any individual could love a specific deity above others, like Hippolytos with Artemis. These may not have left as many traces as state-sponsored temples, but in everyday life, they were no less significant.

In conclusion, there was a concept of twelve particularly powerful and important deities, and it did somewhat correspond to which deities were worshipped most in practise, but reality was a lot more nuanced. Any God could be more or less important depending on who you were, where you were, and in which circumstances. Ultimately, the Hellenic cult was - and still is - as rich in variety as it was in deities.

*Some modern worshippers choose to call the religion Dodekatheism, which I’m not criticising. This isn’t about the term but about its interpretation as “worship of exactly twelve deities” being incorrect.

**Interesting anecdote: my professor recently remarked on the fact that, in the Homeric epics at least, only desperate prayers are addressed to “Zeus and the other Olympians”. People call on the Twelve when they don’t know to whom specifically to turn, and as a result, these prayers are the most likely to go unanswered.

#ancient greece #hellenic polytheism #Hellenismos

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bean-na-farraige-agus-foraoise · 4 years ago

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A Rebuttal of “Lesson Three: Gods and Goddesses”

This is part 3 of my 20-part manifesto on why druids should do some research for once. You can find the master-post here.

This is a long post, so the actual rebuttal is under the cut!

Herne actually beings Lesson 3 with a statement that I agree with to an extent. “In the modern world we like to divide things up into neat boxes......The ancient world was somewhat messier.” Herne goes on to describe a process known as syncretism, though they don’t use that word and haven’t expressed any real understanding of the process. Herne finishes this paragraph with the question- “In what sense can any deity be said to have a nationality?” which is where Herne and I begin to diverge. While it’s true that the ancient world was “somewhat messier” and it’s possible to trace versions of deities across time and space this does not mean that they’re the same deity. An example used by Herne is Akte (Anatolian) -> Hecate (Greek) -> Hekate (Roman), this does not mean that the Roman Hekate is the same as the Anatolian Akte, or that the Greek Hecate is the same as the Roman Hekate (plot twist, Rome didn’t just steal Greek mythology). Herne’s example is not factually accurate by any stretch of the imagination, but I’m using it as a way to show the issues in their logic. As deities move across space and time the way they are worshiped and interpreted change. In essence- a deity can be said to have a nationality, when a distinctive interpretation of that deity is found within that nationality- notably there are key differences between an Cailleach as she’s known in Ireland and as she’s known in Scotland.

Herne says, not incorrectly that “when we talk about Celtic gods we usually mean ones worshiped by British, Irish or some continental tribes during the Iron Age,” and that “these days people who are not even remotely Celtic by birth perform rituals in honour of Celtic deities.” I think that it’s important to keep posts like these these ( X , X ) in mind when talking about the concept of “Celtic by birth” as it applies to Gaelic polytheism. Once again, I feel the need to remind everyone that there was no pan-Celtic religion, anyone who says otherwise is trying to sell you something.

Indeed there are “hundreds of statues and altar stones found throughout Celtic lands “ and it’s true that “many of the statues have no names, and it is anyone’s guess whom they represent.” What Herne isn’t saying is that we can’t prove if any of these altar stones are pagan- anymore than we can prove who the statues are of. There’s no scholarship to suggest that every altar stone in Ireland is pagan, anymore than there is to suggest that they’re all Christian.

Herne is right when they say that we need to stop to think about how the Celts viewed their gods- and for the third post in a row, I have to say WE DON’T KNOW HOW THEY VIEWED THEIR GODS and while we can make assumptions about how the Celts viewed the gods, we cannot make definite statements like “early Celts saw their Gods as ancestors..... people probably looked on them in the same way they might a wise and powerful uncle, mother, cousin etc” (particularly not when the “evidence” for this claim is a mistranslation of an Cailleach). Herne says they were polytheists, others have argued that they weren’t polytheists at all. I can’t believe I’m agreeing with Herne here, but they have a point when they say:

Many pagans these days believe that all goddesses are aspects of One Goddess, and likewise with the gods (this idea is usually called duotheism, or duolatry by academics). This is a perfectly valid belief, but it is worth knowing that there is no evidence that the ancient British tribes shared it.

This is true, what Herne does not discuss is that many pagans view goddesses and gods in this manner, because of the strong Wiccan influence in neo-pagan and druidic circles (assuming one wants to make the distinction between neo-pagans and druids).

Herne goes on to use ‘she’ to refer to druids, rather than the more appropriate ‘they,’ and after Part 2′s gendered language fiasco this is a bit worrying. Beyond this, they’re right in the fact that every deity has agency and should be approached as individuals rather than as archetypes or monoliths. You can read more here.

It is ironic to me that Herne says that “just because two deities have some things in common, doesn’t mean they are the same deity, or identical in other respects” but then goes on to make some - uh- pretty bold claims, like their claim that Rhiannon and the Morrigan are the same deity (yeah, idk either), or their claims that Ogmios and Ogma are related because their names look similar.....

That’s all for today! Since pretty much everything refuted has either already been discussed in a previous post or is logic based I haven’t cited any academic sources this time around, but that doesn’t mean that I can’t still provide reading lists on topics or issues brought up in this post- if you’d like more information please don’t hesitate to reach out! Until next time!

#my writing #research musings #research #anti-druidic rhetoric #aka facts #20-part manifesto

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ofbloodandfaith · 5 years ago

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Day 16 of 30 Days of Apollon

How do you think this deity represents the values of their pantheon and cultural origins?

Well, one of the main group of values of Hellenic polytheism is considered by most to be from Apollon, these are called the Delphic Maxims and is where the phrase, ‘Know Thyself’ comes from.

The Delphic maxims are a set of 147 aphorisms inscribed at Delphi. Originally, they were said to have been given by the Greek god Apollo's Oracle at Delphi, Pythia and therefore were attributed to Apollo.[1] The 5th century scholar Stobaeus later attributed them to the Seven Sages of Greece.[2] Contemporary scholars, however, hold that their original authorship is uncertain and that 'most likely they were popular proverbs, which tended later to be attributed to particular sages.'[3] Roman educator Quintilian argued that students should copy those aphorisms often to improve their moral core.[4] Perhaps the most famous of these maxims is 'know thyself,' which was carved into the Temple of Apollo at Delphi. The specific order and wording of each maxim varies among different versions (and translations) of the text.

I believe Apollon (city/society/neighbourhood worship) along with Hestia (household/family/personal worship) had a strong hand in keeping the cultus of (the ancient version of) Hellenic Polytheism alive and along with the other gods made it their job to guide humans. He is considered, ‘The national divinity of the Greeks’, which to me means that when he shows himself he is not just Apollon but all the gods, a representative of the Olympians, in a similar way to how Hermes represents the gods as the messenger. Yet in a modern way, Apollon would be a foreign king/ambassador/politician while Hermes would a foreign correspondent/news reporter/politician.

Considering his cultural origins, he seemed to gain attributes from the gods around him (gods from different parts of Greece) through the years, which explains why he is considered by some a migratory god because it seems like he doesn’t take the place of most of these gods he learns a skill or power from them.

For the Greeks, Apollo was all the Gods in one and through the centuries he acquired different functions which could originate from different gods. In archaic Greece he was the prophet, the oracular god who in older times was connected with "healing". In classical Greece he was the god of light and of music, but in popular religion he had a strong function to keep away evil.[50] Walter Burkert[51] discerned three components in the prehistory of Apollo worship, which he termed "a Dorian-northwest Greek component, a Cretan-Minoan component, and a Syro-Hittite component."

From his eastern origin Apollo brought the art of inspection of "symbols and omina" (σημεῖα καὶ τέρατα : sēmeia kai terata), and of the observation of the omens of the days. The inspiration oracular-cult was probably introduced from Anatolia. The ritualism belonged to Apollo from the beginning. The Greeks created the legalism, the supervision of the orders of the gods, and the demand for moderation and harmony. Apollo became the god of shining youth, ideal beauty, fine arts, philosophy, moderation, spiritual-life, the protector of music, divine law and perceptible order. The improvement of the old Anatolian god, and his elevation to an intellectual sphere, may be considered an achievement of the Greek people.[52]

In my experience and from reading other introductions to Hellenic polytheism, Apollon tends to be the first god you meet/explore from the Hellenic pantheon, which fits with his role as an ambassador who introduces humans to the divinity of the Olympians

So to answer the question I believe that he does represent the values of his pantheon and his cultural origins as he still portrays the attributes he procured in his Dorian:

The connection with the Dorians and their initiation festival apellai is reinforced by the month Apellaios in northwest Greek calendars.[66] The family-festival was dedicated to Apollo (Doric: Ἀπέλλων).[67] Apellaios is the month of these rites, and Apellon is the "megistos kouros" (the great Kouros).[68] However it can explain only the Doric type of the name, which is connected with the Ancient Macedonian word "pella" (Pella), stone. Stones played an important part in the cult of the god, especially in the oracular shrine of Delphi (Omphalos).[69][70]

The "Homeric hymn" represents Apollo as a Northern intruder. His arrival must have occurred during the "Dark Ages" that followed the destruction of the Mycenaean civilization, and his conflict with Gaia (Mother Earth) was represented by the legend of his slaying her daughter the serpent Python.[71]

The earth deity had power over the ghostly world, and it is believed that she was the deity behind the oracle.[72] The older tales mentioned two dragons who were perhaps intentionally conflated. A female dragon named Delphyne (Δελφύνη; cf. δελφύς, "womb"),[73] and a male serpent Typhon (Τυφῶν; from τ��φειν, "to smoke"), the adversary of Zeus in the Titanomachy, who the narrators confused with Python.[74][75] Python was the good daemon (ἀγαθὸς δαίμων) of the temple as it appears in Minoan religion,[76] but she was represented as a dragon, as often happens in Northern European folklore as well as in the East.[77]

Apollo and his sister Artemis can bring death with their arrows. The conception that diseases and death come from invisible shots sent by supernatural beings, or magicians is common in Germanic and Norse mythology.[58] In Greek mythology Artemis was the leader (ἡγεμών, "hegemon") of the nymphs, who had similar functions with the Nordic Elves.[78] The "elf-shot" originally indicated disease or death attributed to the elves, but it was later attested denoting stone arrow-heads which were used by witches to harm people, and also for healing rituals.[79]

The Vedic Rudra has some similar functions with Apollo. The terrible god is called "The Archer", and the bow is also an attribute of Shiva.[80] Rudra could bring diseases with his arrows, but he was able to free people of them, and his alternative Shiva is a healer physician god.[81] However the Indo-European component of Apollo does not explain his strong relation with omens, exorcisms, and with the oracular cult.

Minoan:

it seems an oracular cult existed in Delphi from the Mycenaean age.[82] In historical times, the priests of Delphi were called Lab(r)yadai, "the double-axe men", which indicates Minoan origin. The double-axe, labrys, was the holy symbol of the Cretan labyrinth.[83][84] The Homeric hymn adds that Apollo appeared as a dolphin and carried Cretan priests to Delphi, where they evidently transferred their religious practices. Apollo Delphinios or Delphidios was a sea-god especially worshiped in Crete and in the islands.[85] Apollo's sister Artemis, who was the Greek goddess of hunting, is identified with Britomartis (Diktynna), the Minoan "Mistress of the animals". In her earliest depictions she is accompanied by the "Master of the animals", a male god of hunting who had the bow as his attribute. His original name is unknown, but it seems that he was absorbed by the more popular Apollo, who stood by the virgin "Mistress of the Animals", becoming her brother.[78]

The old oracles in Delphi seem to be connected with a local tradition of the priesthood, and there is not clear evidence that a kind of inspiration-prophecy existed in the temple. This led some scholars to the conclusion that Pythia carried on the rituals in a consistent procedure through many centuries, according to the local tradition. In that regard, the mythical seeress Sibyl of Anatolian origin, with her ecstatic art, looks unrelated to the oracle itself.[86] However, the Greek tradition is referring to the existence of vapours and chewing of laurel-leaves, which seem to be confirmed by recent studies.[87]

Plato describes the priestesses of Delphi and Dodona as frenzied women, obsessed by "mania" (μανία, "frenzy"), a Greek word he connected with mantis (μάντις, "prophet").[88] Frenzied women like Sibyls from whose lips the god speaks are recorded in the Near East as Mari in the second millennium BC.[89] Although Crete had contacts with Mari from 2000 BC,[90] there is no evidence that the ecstatic prophetic art existed during the Minoan and Mycenean ages. It is more probable that this art was introduced later from Anatolia and regenerated an existing oracular cult that was local to Delphi and dormant in several areas of Greece.[91]

and Anatolian origins:

A non-Greek origin of Apollo has long been assumed in scholarship.[7] The name of Apollo's mother Leto has Lydian origin, and she was worshipped on the coasts of Asia Minor. The inspiration oracular cult was probably introduced into Greece from Anatolia, which is the origin of Sibyl, and where existed some of the oldest oracular shrines. Omens, symbols, purifications, and exorcisms appear in old Assyro-Babylonian texts, and these rituals were spread into the empire of the Hittites. In a Hittite text is mentioned that the king invited a Babylonian priestess for a certain "purification".[52]

A similar story is mentioned by Plutarch. He writes that the Cretan seer Epimenides purified Athens after the pollution brought by the Alcmeonidae, and that the seer's expertise in sacrifices and reform of funeral practices were of great help to Solon in his reform of the Athenian state.[92] The story indicates that Epimenides was probably heir to the shamanic religions of Asia, and proves, together with the Homeric hymn, that Crete had a resisting religion up to historical times. It seems that these rituals were dormant in Greece, and they were reinforced when the Greeks migrated to Anatolia.

Homer pictures Apollo on the side of the Trojans, fighting against the Achaeans, during the Trojan War. He is pictured as a terrible god, less trusted by the Greeks than other gods. The god seems to be related to Appaliunas, a tutelary god of Wilusa (Troy) in Asia Minor, but the word is not complete.[93] The stones found in front of the gates of Homeric Troy were the symbols of Apollo. A western Anatolian origin may also be bolstered by references to the parallel worship of Artimus (Artemis) and Qλdãns, whose name may be cognate with the Hittite and Doric forms, in surviving Lydian texts.[94] However, recent scholars have cast doubt on the identification of Qλdãns with Apollo.[95]

The Greeks gave to him the name ἀγυιεύς agyieus as the protector god of public places and houses who wards off evil, and his symbol was a tapered stone or column.[96] However, while usually Greek festivals were celebrated at the full moon, all the feasts of Apollo were celebrated at the seventh day of the month, and the emphasis given to that day (sibutu) indicates a Babylonian origin.[97]

The Late Bronze Age (from 1700 to 1200 BCE) Hittite and Hurrian Aplu was a god of plague, invoked during plague years. Here we have an apotropaic situation, where a god originally bringing the plague was invoked to end it. Aplu, meaning the son of, was a title given to the god Nergal, who was linked to the Babylonian god of the sun Shamash.[21] Homer interprets Apollo as a terrible god (δεινὸς θεός) who brings death and disease with his arrows, but who can also heal, possessing a magic art that separates him from the other Greek gods.[98] In Iliad, his priest prays to Apollo Smintheus,[99] the mouse god who retains an older agricultural function as the protector from field rats.[33][100][101] All these functions, including the function of the healer-god Paean, who seems to have Mycenean origin, are fused in the cult of Apollo.

#30 days of Apollon #dodekatheism #hellenic polytheism #hellenismos #hellenic pagan #for the love of apollo #for the love of the dodekatheon #ares is great #Hail King Zeus and Queen Hera #hermes is my god #Hades is great too #Hestia is a sweetheart #30 days of deity devotion #30 days of devotion

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sabazium · 12 days ago

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Epithets of Zagreus

Sabazius — honored, [his] own.

Mēn — of the moon.

Eubuleus — good counsel, wise in counsel.

Chthonius — of the earth or underworld.

Sōtēr — a saviour, a deliverer.

Agetor — ruler of gods, humankind, and the universe in general.

Agrios — wild.

Eleuthereus — liberator.

Laphystios — devourer.

Polú-mētis — cunning.

Archegetes — leader or founder.

Brimos — dreadful.

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kaijuno · 6 years ago

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So slavery is called America's "original sin" and because of its genocidal qualities of suppressing culture and destroying families, it could be classed with what may be called America's true original sin, genocide. And whatever way you conceptualize it America has failed historically and currently to reckon with either. (Side note: Ivanka Trump had the AUDACITY to recently come out against modern slavery when her father praises folks for being "tough on crime" and pardoned Joe Arpaio, who was so pro-prison slavery that he attempted to reinstitute chain gangs.) But what I wanted to talk about was that, when polytheistic African religions were suppressed by enslaving European Christianity, the Christian canon of saints became a tool that provided continuity of worship for African polytheists. They'd assign saints to particular gods and the most powerful one in the pantheon would be equated to YHWH. This was especially true in Roman Catholic French and Spanish territories and it's the origin of Vodou, or "Voodoo," post-slavery. We know that pagan cultures are capable of becoming officially monotheistic while pagan practice persisted from, for instance, when Egypt tried out monotheism at least a couple times with with Amun-Ra and Aten. (Another side note: Amun-Ra could be an antecedent of the Christian Trinity, that is, of having multiple "persons" in one god, but like with cat memes, Egypt having an analog of something in another culture at a later time doesn't always--or even usually--have any kind of continuity from one to the other. Cultures have similar trends at different times, but it's just as likely to be "convergent evolution" as it is true heritage.) Anyway, African enslaved cultures' persistence of paganity under oppressive monotheistic Christianity by means of the canon of saints suggests that the reverence of saints as a practice might have originated in early Christian Rome for the same reason. Their centuries-old pagan apparatus of worship couldn't have just evaporated after the Edict of Milan. Martyrs of earlier Christian persecution might've been appropriated to "fill in" for their old gods. Saints being "patrons of" places or concepts also supports this interpretation, having replaced "gods of." Paganism is also uniquely historically flexible as can be seen, for instance, in how the Greeks assimilated their local deities and heroes into a pan-Hellenic tradition (Hercules especially). The worship of Bacchus and an Anatolian goddess were so coincidentally similar that they invented a tradition of Bacchus having learned revelry from "Magna Mater" (who they assigned to Rhea) while traveling in Turkey. Ancient historians would also generally refer to foreign gods by their Greek or Roman counterparts. We don't have very good or specific evidence of the transition of historically pagan cultures to Christianity by mass conversion, especially under Roman rule. But the well-recorded and recent example of African polytheisms persisting under Christianity via the saints gives us a pretty good idea of how it might've happened in other cases. If the idea excites you, I'd suggest looking into Vodou at least on Wikipedia. Slave religion, while the product of atrocities, is so fascinating. My "elective" African American Religions class turned out to be one of my favorites. (Concluding note: the term "syncretism" is absent from the body of this micro-essay because it can be construed as offensive by suggesting the superiority of the oppressing religion.)

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pieandhotdogs · 2 years ago

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The prelude to the annual festival began on the Ides of March. On the second festival day, which was designated Arbor intrat in the calendar of Philocalus, the guild of dendrophori, or tree bearers, were in charge of the ceremonial. It was the duty of the dendrophori to cut down a pine tree in the woods and bear it with due pomp to the temple of Cybele.

[…]

The following day was one of fasting when the devotees of Attis mourned their god. It was a peculiar fast, however; Jerome called it "a gluttonous abstinence, when men ate pheasants in order not to contaminate cereals." Meats, in general, were allowed, but fruits and vegetables were forbidden. This prohibition extended to wine also. The vegetable abstinence was a natural one. As the cutting down of the pine tree symbolized that the god of vegetation was dead, so the vegetable world shared in the defunct condition of the god. To partake of vegetables and cereals at such a season would be to violate the bruised and broken body of a god. This fast probably began with the fifteenth of March, and it had its influence as a physical preparation for the excessive emotionalism of the rites which marked the climax of the festival.

-Pagan Regeneration, by Harold R. Willoughby, [1929]

#cybele #attis #hellenic polytheism #pagan #god herself #antheia #greek paganism #anatolia #anatolian polytheism #roman polytheism #religio romana #ides of march

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arjuna-vallabha · 2 years ago

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Plaque of the Goddess Cybele, Roman, 2nd 3rd century CE

#Cybele #goddess #roman polytheism #hellenic polytheism #anatolian

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dreamingflight · 5 years ago

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I feel like I've become more, not less, closeted as an occultist over time. And like pagan identification and anything to do with it - including my fucking ART - is off limits.

I'm increasingly ignored as any kind of pagan/polytheist in pagan social circles because of the visibility of my Jewish origins, and now the things I have done for years (generally connected to European polytheism) are treated like they're culturally sacrosanct by anyone under 35. Somewhere along the lines we began taking the cultural appropriation discussion away from the actual POC who spoke about it, and using it to enforce a rigid cultural prescriptivism.

It's a tough spot to be in, I don't enjoy it, and we're at the point where my fantasy writing about witches is horribly problematic now because apparently, I don't call myself a witch and I don't belong to any group of people allowed to practice witchcraft.

Here's the thing, *by definition* any magic I do is going to be HERETICAL TO BEGIN WITH unless it's my family's folk magic, and if I were to practice my own familial religion "properly" the way Tumblr asks? Gee thanks, Tumblr, do you know I'm (as a woman) not allowed to even study my own religion, right?

There are increasingly two camps: white nationalists, and people who feel that European nationalism/traditionalism doesn't have to be about skin color.

Basically the only stream from my Jewish ancestry that I'm allowed to practice, are the very liberalized interpretations (including ones that liberalize and water down Kabbalah) that Tumblr says nobody is allowed to practice.

You fucking suck, Tumblr, and Gen Z Zeitgeist of 2020.

Your own scholarship on your path doesn't matter, it doesn't matter that many pre-Hebrew and pre-Beaker/Kurgan European elements come from the same cultural roots (Judaism has an ancient Anatolian Neolithic substrate).

We have gotten into this space where paganism is beginning to have the same conformist orthodoxy elements that I originally fled mainstream religion to get away from.

Give me ecstatic practice, deep mysteries, occultism, and heresy. That's what I signed up for. That's what many, many pagan-identified people over 35 probably signed up for.

Also, people who identify as occultists and not pagans probably don't give a shit about "correctness" beyond their own scholarship and experience.

But my social spaces are increasingly filled with people with the Tumblr everyone-in-their-racially-prescribed-lane mentality (which gets stupid when you consider practices and beliefs that were culturally syncretic and ideologically "universalist" to begin with, such as Hellenic belief systems. Fucking fuck's sake, the Theoi are *still here* and anyone is allowed to be devoted to Them. Especially if you're an American, you've probably got grooves worn in your brain for the Theoi from a lifetime of art, architecture, and practically everything else.)

#by the way being of Jewish origins but Hellenic deities being what reached out?? that's a fucking weird space especially every Hannukah!!#my devotion is Neolithic pre-Hebrew and the Greek gods that reached out are the ones with the same origin

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sisterofiris · 6 years ago

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In one of your previous asks about how the Theoi feel about the worship of other pantheons you mentioned that, "The basic nature of Hellenic polytheism is to be open to new deities - that’s how we got Cybele, Aphrodite, possibly Apollon and Artemis, several aspects of Zeus, and a lot more." Do you happen to know about some articles/research that discuss the origins of the Greek gods you mentioned above that are considered to be of foreign origin and imported in ancient Greece?

Unfortunately, for this kind of specific information I very rarely have sources discussing the topic itself. Rather than one specific article or book proving XYZ, I get this information from putting tidbits here and there together, for example: Apollon being (likely) mentioned as Apaliunaš in a Hittite treaty with Wiluša/Troy; Artemis being an important deity in Lydia under the name Artimus; Aphrodite not appearing in Mycenaean Greek tablets, while having strong parallels to Inanna/Ištar/Astarte; Kybele corresponding perfectly to Anatolian Kubaba; etc. (Note that, while these are all things that have been taken as proof that these deities were not Greek in origin, the only one that is almost certainly not Greek is Kybele. Still, the arguments for the others are worth taking into account.)

That said, while I don’t have any clear references to where I learnt X or Y, I did a bit of googling and pulled up the following sources which discuss the topic:

In Search of Anatolian Apollo

Ancient Felines and the Great Goddess of Anatolia: Kubaba and Cybele

Cybele, Attis and Related Cults: Essays in Memory of M. J. Vermaseren (the link is a review of the book, not the book itself)

Myths of Aphrodite and her Origins (book chapter in Greek Myths and Mesopotamia)

The East Face of Helicon (always good to have a look)

I hope these are useful to you!

#one thing that needs to be recognised is that once you've been studying something for a few years #it becomes hard to say 'i learnt this from X place specifically'#it's more like 'i've seen this enough times that it's obvious to me but gods i have no idea where -if anywhere- it's explicitly laid out #sorry i can't be more helpful than this sometimes :/#classics #mythology

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solenne730-blog · 6 years ago

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Oriental Institute - Blog №8

On Sunday, my son and I went to the Oriental Institute museum, on the campus of The University of Chicago. The museum contains a fascinating collection of archaeological finds spanning thousands of years. The rooms are arranged chronologically, beginning in Mesopotamia and moving through several ancient cultures, ending with the Nubian civilization.

There is a wealth of information contained in each section about each cultural period in history and the development and contributions made by each society. There were functional pieces, such as cooking implements and weaponry, as well as artistic pieces that seemed to be related to worship or decoration.

Throughout the museum, there was a theme of communication and connection, for purposes within their communities as well as without. There were numerous samples of writing from each of the represented cultures: Mesopotamia, Syria, Anatolia, Egypt, Persia, and Nubia.

There were also examples of currency and an assortment of seals that were used to distinguish between people, tribes, and class status. There were many examples of pieces that were crafted to honor a leader of their society or to pay respects to the deceased. Pieces designed to honor the gods and goddesses of their culture were also common.

While there were many works that illustrated domestic life, such as pitchers and dishware, as well as interesting pieces of metalwork designed for jewelry and weapons, my favorite pieces were the toys.

Nothing humanized the cultures shown in the collection quite as much as seeing the toys they had made for their children. I am grateful that the curators chose to include them, because it would have been easy to focus on the weapons, statues, and rediscovered texts without any obvious loss. But the inclusion of the toys gave the collection an added layer of tenderness that balanced the whole.

I elected to go to the Oriental Institute because archaeology and anthropology are often undervalued fields that contribute so much to our understanding of the world and the interactions within it. An understanding of history and the motivations and experiences of our ancestors is vital to clearly viewing the path we are on. When we can identify patterns of behavior and learn to make use of the lessons of the past, we can make sound predictions about possible outcomes for our society.

Studying past societies can also help us to understand the values held by the people, and compare them with those of today. Our ways have changed over time in many key areas, such as a shift away from polytheism and an increased fluidity in gender roles. Some things, however, have shifted surprisingly little over the centuries. There was an obvious emphasis on the importance of family, communication, and the encouragement of trade between groups. These core values are just as essential in 2018 A.D. as they were in 2000 B.C. As human beings, we are supposed to share and communicate with others. For centuries we have shared art, music, trade goods, and knowledge, with suspicious isolationists being left in the dust of progress.

We can learn so much from these ancient societies. From the Egyptians, with their fantastic burial and preservation rites. From the Mesopotamians and their brave decision to shift from a nomadic lifestyle toward one of farming and land development. From the faithful recordkeeping of the Assyrians, which has helped keep their stories alive. From the Anatolians, whose mastery of metallurgy sparked generations of crafters able to shape our modern world.

The applicability of this experience to an art course lies in the decision of these numerous ancient craftspeople to create these incredible pieces and share them with their descendents throughout the world. The contemporary art we have seen earlier in the week will also one day be shared by the people of the future, due to the courage and commitment of today’s artists to create the works they see in their minds and to share their passion and ingenuity with the world.

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