#amy & selina supremacy

[maraczeks]

veep uncut table read live thread pt 3

[youandthemountains]

#5, 2, 10, 17, 20

2. what fandoms were apart of that you aren’t any longer?

I don’t flounce out as much as fandoms just die out or I get fixated on something new SO i’m using this as an excuse for a chronological fandom history. how many people will hate me when I’m done, let’s find out.

LISTEN this is possible the most annoying post I’ve ever created but was also very fun so I’m answering the rest of these in a separate post bc it got too long already.

but, you all should feel free to ask me if I was ever in one of your fandoms because at this rate signs point to yes.

Bandom is I think what I first found fic for. look, i KNOW. i KNOW. i was a child. specifically I remember reading stuff for The Libertines (I KNOWWW leave me alone. I am aware. There were some really good writers for it, everyone was doing it, idk man). and god REALLY early on, like what, early middle school? I remember a lot of those pop-emo bandom fics particularly. jesus this is embarrassing. but ry*n r*ss / br*nd*n ur*e fic. I’m sure there were others but let’s move on before the cringe incapacitates me.

House/Wilson on LJ babeyyy. Where I was introduced to hurt/comfort. Fun times. Related, Sherlock Holmes. Inescapable. All versions.

pre-MCU Marvel - fully comics based. X-Men had the best fics. I remember loving in particular - Peter Parker/Johnny Storm, anything with Jubilee, I personally shipped Shadowcat/Jean Grey before I knew what shipping or the internet or fandom was, I loved Gambit/Wolverine and I remember some really good Gambit/Nightcrawler fics. Lot of discourse on the nature of being monstrous in those that was interesting. I would read Hawkeye and anyone because he had good and totally different dynamics with so many different characters but I did have a soft spot for Clint/Bucky, Clint/Sam, and Clintasha. oh I was also into Bucky/Natasha because I did really love comics Black Widow. the less popular ones that i loved were - Sunspot/Cannonball, SamBucky, Jessica JSilk/Black Cat, MJ/Gwen Stacy, Peter/Harry Osborn, Sam/Bucky,  Elektra/Natasha, Foggy/Matt, Kate Bishop/America Chavez, Daredevil/Black Panther, the Heroes for Hire polycule, god I think Angel/Quicksilver purely bc of Marvel 1602, honestly there were a lot. This would need it’s own post because comics are a bunch of attractive people with interesting dynamics and plenty of What If? opportunities.  

Speak of comics, I was also into DC - Superbat, Booster Gold/Blue Beetle, Kaldur’ahm/Superboy (literally no one was into this besides me lmfao), was and am a huge Batfam fan, I am 100% a Damian Wayne apologist, oh was and tbh still kind of am really into Dick Grayson/Clint Barton fic. Yes I realize that’s insane but idk love the concept of carnies in love. Wonder Woman/Meera, Constantine/Zatanna, Zatanna/Wonder Woman, Constantine/King Shark now of course, Harley/Ivy, Harley/Ivy/Selina, Kate Kane/Renee Montoya, Constatine/Dream, Vi you turned me on to au teen girl Chastantine and I love that. Again, I’m sure there are more.

The Social Network also on LJ babeyyy. Of course Markwardo, but there were some great writers that made a really compelling case for Sean/Eduardo.

Heroes - specifically Matthinder which was ICONIC and still deserves so much more attention. They RAISED A CHILD TOGETHER. Honestly I was into Mohinder/anyone though.

MI-5 which was me and like 4 other people. Adam/Zaf is still my all time favorite ship that has zero engagement whatsoever. I know in my heart that Zaf faked his death and met up with Adam who let him retire with him in secret and safety. For something even more obscure that I care about way too much - Vik/Jez endgame and Vik/Rob as friends with benefits from Spooks: Code 9. I have a very detailed story in my head about them but maybe 7 people total watched that show before it was cancelled. Rob is probably the most villainous character that I’m into. 

Torchwood - yes Janto, also Owen/Ianto again purely because there were some really good writers for it.

If we’re getting into my obscure fandom phase - Primeval: New World. Mac/Evan and Mac/Connor. I could talk about this forever, I think it’s such a fascinating and tragic story but I won’t because no one will have any idea wtf I’m talking about 

Of course Doctor Who. Come on man. I was a sucker for Nine/Rose, Nine/Jack, Eleven/Rory/Amy, and Amy/Rory. Martha was my favorite companion but I didn’t really like Ten and he was a dick to her. 

Dear White People -  Sam/Coco, Sam/Jo, Troy/Lionel, Jo/Reggie, Reggie/Lionel (did this make sense? no. did I think it’d be hot? yeah.) GOD LIONEL/SILVIO UNTIL SILVIO WAS EVIL. 

Xena and Gabrielle/Xena

White Collar - Neal/Peter & Neal/Burkes

The Get Down - Shao/Zeke, Pretty Dizzee D/Thor, god these kids!!! 

MASH - Hawkeye/BJ

HP but literally the tiniest corner of it, had a mild interest in Ron/Draco & Ron/Harry so I barely checked it out bc that was pretty niche

the Gene Wilder multiverse. oh also the Gene Kelly multiverse. both the Genes always give themselves a boyfriend and a girlfriend that are gorgeous and hilarious.

I still haven’t seen Jurassic Park III but I think Billy/Dr. Grant are in love

Indiana Jones - I read. Every single one of the novels. I watched Young Indiana Jones. I adored him. 

The Flash TV - this one I did actually leave. I was in it for Cisco, Wally, and Iris. I think Iris/Barry are sweet, and I also liked Cisco/Barry, Cisco/Wally, and Iris/Cisco. I just lost interest in the show. 

Legends of Tomorrow - Sara/all her girlfriends throughout time

Dragon Age - yeah I love Anders/Fenris & Dorian/Iron Bull. I think Cullen/Dorian has the occasional good fic but it’s definitely hit or miss. 

Star Wars - oh star war. how do i hate thee. let me recount the ways. No I still love Hanleia, Landoleia, Han/Lando, Hanluke, Leia/Mara Jade, Mara Jade/Arden Lyn, Luke/Mara Jade, FinnPoe (My LOVES), uhhh that’s it. I do also love Black Squadron and Rapier Squadron. Jess/Kare Kun was underrated although Kare/Snap is also fun. I saw Rose/Kaydel Ko and that was real galaxy brained.

Mad Men - I really did love Don & Betty’s dynamic post-divorce. Also him and Peggy - not romantically at all but just something cold and sharp.

Firefly - Mal/Simon, and Kay/Inara. I’d read Jayne/Simon bc there was more of it but it was not my fave at all

Community - Trobed my beloved

GLOW - everyone on this show had a great dynamic AND i love my brown lesbians <33

Game of Thrones - but I never got past the first book so. Theon/Robb and Theon/Jon, Sansa/Marjorie Tyrell, I do like the occasional Theon/Sansa

The Exorcist (TV) - Tomas/Marcus was SO good man. 

Glee - Brittana supremacy, Finn/Kurt was nice at first, and weirdly so was Puck/Kurt when written in a very specific way. 

Shadowhunters - listen I’ve only seen like 3 episodes of this but I like the fandom and Magnus/Alec are gorgeous

Rogue One - Bodhi/Cassian my beloved. Also love your Kes/Cassian stuff

MCU - listen I do still maintain ca:tws was a samsteve meetcute. 

United States of Tara - this was just a great show

okay have I alienated everyone yet. I’m sure there are more but this has been a LOT already.

[safflowerseason]

What do you mean the show wasn't about politics for awhile?

(I have forbidden myself from answering asks until the next chapter of BMTL is finished, but I am breaking the rule temporarily because I basically had the answer to this question already drafted, and was waiting for a reason to post it!)

Anon, it’s a great question that relates directly to the fundamental change in Veep S1-4 and Veep S5-S7. Essentially, I would argue that the show shifts from being about politics to being about power. The two are related, but quite distinct. Politics is about the norms of institutions that influence the practice of governance, and about the ways in which individuals and groups navigate those norms and rules to gain and maintain power. Obviously power is a huge part of that story, but there is an inherently institutional dimension at work. Politics is an apparatus, a self-regulating process. You can’t make a political deal in a vacuum (Mandel tries, but it…does not work.) 

“Power” is a looser concept, and more abstract, because it’s so impossibly huge and fundamental. It exists in many more modes and dimensions than politics. You can’t tell a story about politics without an institution or an overarching system at work in the story. You can tell a story about power with almost anything, in any context. 

A lot of the smaller differences between S1-S4 and S5-S7 are due to this fundamental shift. Armando Iannuci is interested in politics as a system and the way humans attempt to seek power within that system. David Mandel is interested in the quest for power and its personal consequences, and he happens to be telling that story within a political setting. (He also approaches the concept with an absurdist sensibility as an artist, which has a lot of implications that should be the subject of a separate mini-essay.) He never would never have written an episode like “The Choice”, where Selina consciously wrestles with what to say about abortion. It’s a political decision in which she struggles with her own complex relationship with feminism and the limitations placed on her as a VP and as a female politician. Her actions and capabilities as a political actor are grounded in these overarching structures—party politics, gender and religious politics in the USA, her role as VP—that shape her thinking. In a Mandelian version of the story, Selina would spend approximately a minute figuring out her response, and the rest of the episode would be devoted to the interpersonal dynamics of her decision, like what Catherine has to say. But in S3 of Veep, Catherine isn’t a part of the story at all. From what we know about her, surely she would have some input on the subject, but that’s not really the point, because that version of Veep isn’t (as) interested in that dimension of Selina’s experience. 

In contrast, S6 and S7 ignores the political costs of power in favor of its personal costs. Mandel frames Selina’s ascent to the presidency as a personal tragedy. Selina says whatever she wants to gain power, even when it doesn’t make sense from a political standpoint. In his universe, Mandel takes it as a given that that’s how all politicians work—because fundamentally, all humans interested in power are unscrupulous monsters—so that’s not the main point. The main point is that Selina gains the presidency and loses her people. That’s a commentary on power in a political setting, but not politics itself. (Whether he does this effectively is up for debate, but it is what he’s trying to do, I think.) 

One particular consequence of that difference: in S5, Dan and Amy’s relationship almost immediately loses its political dimension, which was a main part of their connection in earlier seasons. Before, their professional goals/identities were intertwined with how they felt about each other. But by the end of S5, their connection is only rendered in terms of emotion, specifically Amy’s unrequited affection for Dan. Suddenly, the story of Dan and Amy could be taking place anywhere. They could be working at a bar, they could be superheroes, they could be lab partners in a high school biology class, but their story would still be about how Amy is hung up on Dan even though he’s a dick who doesn’t see it.

In the end, I ultimately think the show—accidentally or not, presciently, depressingly—tapped into whatever Trump tapped into in order to win the 2016 election before he was even elected:this ominous mess of white supremacy and toxic masculinity and religious patriarchy, the dangerously tangled relationship between politics and modern media, and the increasing sense of paralysis and gridlock in the face of seemingly unstoppable forces (evil billionaires and their corporations dooming the planet, nations finding new and more intimate ways to attack one another through computers, democracy feels like a sham, etc.) When Trump actually became President, it sort of gave Mandel permission to fully lean into all that, and truly leave the nitty-gritty of politics behind. 

What the creative team missed, or did not care about, is that Trump’s election (and other similar political developments across the globe, such as Brexit) has caused the r/emergence of political and cultural movements that oppose what’s happening. Which is why so much of S6 and S7 feel so one-dimensional and shallow, when you really look at what’s going on.