#am I talking about Dorian or Ashton?

[24-jay-42]

Just want to point out that last episode Ashton took Zathuda's Sword, Dusk Hunger, the Blade of the Black Flame.

Literally one of the things Zathuda is known for is this weapon.

Quintessential Ashton. I love it.

I 1000% think Ashton is going to give the sword To Fearne, for her to decide what to do with it. And whether it's a straight up gift or reverse pick pocket it will be great. Or perhaps he wants her to just pick pocket it.

[rucksackmentality]

List of the truths shared in Nana Morri's Honesty trial (C3E79):

Imogen: I am genuinely scared to meet my mom again.

Laudna: Deep down inside, both Delilah and I want the shard...Fearne should have it, but I don't know anymore what's my opinion or desires or feelings, or hers.

Imogen: I love Laudna deeply but I'm disgusted at the thought of Delilah looking at us all the time.

Orym: I'm super lonely all the time, especially at night. It doesn’t matter if I'm bunking with one of you guys.

FCG: Sometimes I pity some of you because you have beating hearts and opportunities and you don’t do enough with them...Chetney, you have so much love to give and it doesn't seem like you're interested in anything other than wood! There's people out there who you could love and experiences you could share with someone else, but all you care about is wood!

Orym: I've always kind of laughed it off but I guess I do kind of wonder if Chetney is my dad.

Ashton: I am the reason that the Jiana Hexum robbery went fucking wrong, and the reason why I got thrown out of a fucking window.

Fearne: I feel like we’re very ill-equipped for this job and we're going to fail at saving the world. (Laudna: Honestly that's probably true, I'm right there with you.)

Chetney: While wood may be the superior material to metal, I do fear that, with the dwindling interest in it, that children will find my toys - and thereby myself - obsolete every year I grow older.

FCG: I think it's something buried deep down in my circuitry, but every time I hurt or kill something - it feels really good. It makes me sort of relax a little bit and some of my stress goes away.

Imogen: I know we're supposed to save the gods, but I've tried talking to them my whole life and none of them would ever respond. I think I'm tainted. I dont know if I want to save gods that don't love me.

Laudna: You know we could rip-cord out of [saving the world] at any moment...right? And sometimes I fantasize about it all the time.

Fearne: I sometimes do stuff to you guys while you're sleeping - not weird stuff, I just like to look at you closely...and maybe like, twiddle your hair or braid it. Nothing bad!

Ashton: Whenever it starts to get quiet, I start worrying that one of us - most of us - are going to end up killing another one of us accidentally...I have panicked thinking about when one you kills another one of us.

Orym: I have all the faith in the world in you guys...and I have also spent time thinking of how to neutralize each of you.

FCG: I kinda worry that I put all my eggs in the Changebringer basket and she might betray us all. I had a really weird conversation with her and I think she's just out for herself and she might not really care about me - but what if she does? And I'm saying horrible things?

Imogen: Fearne, I was really disappointed in you for running away from your power. You should take the shard!

Orym: I really miss Dorian, and sometimes I think that's okay, and sometimes I think it isn't.

Ashton: I feel fucking worse that I just fucked up Fearne's life way more than mine and I should've died instead of that happening.

Chetney: I grew up in the Bramblewood outside of Westruun, and when I was a kid, I came back from learning how to make toys and found that my whole family had left. All they left behind were toys. They ran when Errevon the Rimelord was running across the plains, and so I'm kind of afraid of dragons. And I had five siblings - Alabaster, Pepper, Sugarplum, Hermey, and Chad - and I was so mad that they left I never looked for any of them, and now I'm pretty sure they're dead. So I think any family I have is just gonna look for a reason to leave me. That's why I don't get attached to anybody.

[pocketgalaxies]

fcg: i enjoy eating silver more than copper

imogen: i am genuinely scared to meet my mom again

chet: it is well known that wood is better than metal

laudna: deep down inside, both delilah and i kind of want the shard

laudna: i don't want [the shard], fearne should have it, but i don't know anymore what's my opinion or desires or feelings or [delilah's]

imogen: i love laudna deeply, but i'm disgusted at the thought of delilah looking at us all the time

orym: i'm super lonely all the time, especially at night. doesn't matter if i'm bunking with one of you guys

fcg: sometimes i pity some of you because you have beating hearts and opportunities and you don't do enough with them

fcg: chetney you have so much love to give and it doesn't seem like you're interested in anything, in ANYTHING, other than wood. there's people out there who you could love and experiences you could share with someone else, but all you care about is wood

orym: i've always laughed it off but i guess i do kinda wonder if chetney is my dad

ashton: i am the reason that the jiana hexum robbery went fucking wrong and the reason why i got thrown out of a fucking window

ashton: (laudna: is that why you feel like you deserved to have the nobodies leave you?) yeah.

fearne: i feel like we are very ill-equipped for this job and we're gonna fail at saving the world

chet: while wood may be the superior material to metal, i do fear that with the dwindling interest in it that children will find my toys and thereby myself obsolete every year that i grow older

fcg: i think it's something buried deep down in my circuitry, but every time i hurt or kill something, it feels really good. it makes me sorta relax a little bit and some of my stress goes away

imogen: i know we're supposed to save the gods but i've tried talking to them my whole life and none of them will ever respond. i think i'm tainted. i don't know if i want to save gods that don't love me

laudna: you know we could all ripcord out of this at any moment, and i don't mean this scavenger hunt, i mean saving the world, right? andsometimesifantasizeaboutitallthetime

fearne: sometimes i do stuff to you guys while you're sleeping. not weird stuff, i just like to look at you closely and...you know, just look at you. you look so content and comfortable and i can get up and look at you really well. and maybe twiddle your hair and like braid it. nothing bad! nothing bad!!

ashton: any time it's too quiet, i start worrying that one of us, most of us, are gonna end up killing another one of us accidentally. all of us. orym...very gently, but probably–orym may be the only one i worry about the least, but genuinely everybody else. i have panicked thinking about what happens when one of you kills another one of us

orym: (laudna: do you have any strong feelings one way or another kind of being the normal guy in a group of freaks who are all ticking time bombs? are you okay with that, do you have any strong feelings?) i have all the faith in the world in you guys, all of you. and i have also spent time thinking how to neutralize each of you

fcg: i kinda worry that i put all my eggs in the changebringer basket and she might betray us all, i had a really weird conversation with her and i think she's just out for herself and she might not really care about me

imogen: fearne, i was really disappointed in you for running away from your power, you should take the shard (laudna: you should take the shard)

orym: i really miss dorian, and sometimes i think that's okay and sometimes i think it isn't

pate: [laudna] is my creator, i don't have feelings, i'm a construction

ashton: i feel fucking worse that i just fucked up fearne's life way more than mine, and i should've died instead of that happening

chet: i grew up in the bramblewood outside of westruun, and when i was a kid, i came back from learning how to make toys and found that my whole family had left. all they left behind were toys. and they ran when errevon the rimelord was running across the plains so i'm kinda afraid of dragons. and i had five siblings, alabaster, pepper, sugarplum, hermey, and chad, and i was so mad that they left, i never looked for any of them. and now i'm pretty sure they're dead, so i think that any family i have is just gonna look for a reason to leave me, that's why i don't get attached to anybody

[elle-thereafter]

Player characters are talking things out less in C3. That’s because the players created characters that are less inclined to open up, are interpersonally conflict-adverse, are lacking self-awareness, and are deflective. There are plenty of opportunities for interpersonal RP that the players are choosing not to take. Choosing not to do something is revealing character and is creating a fascinating dynamic which is different from the previous campaigns.

What we have here to varying extents and extremes are a bunch of Scanlans. What we have is a powder keg.

What happens in a snowballing, urgent situation with high fucking stakes when a party like this doesn’t talk, doesn’t bond, and chronically lets things fester? Like, I guess be cranky if you want because there are fewer regular moments of interpersonal RP than previous campaigns, but I am way more into the fact that it also means when we do get it, it’s often explosive! Or sometimes extremely subtle and beautifully nuanced! Where small little moments carry huge meaning, like a small moment of Ashton leaving a piece of FCG in Aeor and saying “welcome home buddy”. That’s such a beautiful moment of grief that punches so hard because there hasn’t been time to grieve properly. Because sometimes the reality of your world means you can’t, you have to keep moving and keep fighting. That has consequences and effects on characters.

Not every group talks things through, and it’s adding so much delicious extra tension because we don’t know when the next interpersonal explosion is going to happen. It could be at the absolute worst fucking time and have huge ramifications for the plot purely because of timing! That is thrilling to me! Half of why I’m enjoying this campaign is because they aren’t talking and shit keeps building up and building up in the background. That Dorian hasn’t told anyone literally any details about what went down just before he returned is juicy, juicy tension and it’s having effects, like Dorian being more inclined to agree with Ludinus and Orym not understanding why which is starting to manifest as conflict. That’s great characterisation and fantastic role playing and messy and interesting and so fucking real.

[nephriteknight]

okay i've talked about this in tags and stuff before but i want to really break down the dorian - ashton dynamic, because it's so interesting. there are a lot of ways in which dorian and ashton are perfectly opposed, and there are also a lot of ways that they're deeply similar, and something about it is just fascinating to me.

they're both genasi, but one is air and one is earth. one was born into wealth and privilege, while the other spent most of their childhood in an orphanage in bassuras, and yet they both have very complex feelings about their parentage and their birthright and the power that comes with it. they're both frontline fighters who started c3 with the same strength score, but ashton uses a massive hammer and chaotic, uncontrollable powers, while dorian uses bardic flourishes and precise spells. ashton was abandoned by the closest thing they had to family, while dorian was the one to leave his own family. ashton is -2 charisma covered up with brashness and projected confidence, while dorian is +3 charisma but too nervous to use it effectively half the time. they both end up being treated as a sort of leader in their parties, much to their own surprise. dorian is this inexperienced, sheltered prince seeing the world for the first time, and ashton is frequently the voice of reason in bells hells, the one who knows how the real world works ("does no one crime?", reminding them that their actions will have consequences for others, pointing out that leaving someone to die is not actually better than killing them by hand).

in exu, dorian tells lolth that he would do anything to protect his friends, even if it would hurt others, and he meant it so deeply that his alignment changed from chaotic good to chaotic neutral. he got into an argument with orym because he wanted them to keep lolth's circlet, a decision influenced by his family history with power and responsibility. and now ashton took the shard, searching for power, motivated by the longing for his parents and his birthright and it is such a juicy parallel.

it's "i would do anything for my friends" vs "we don't leave anyone behind".

the first kiss of the campaign is dorian kissing ashton's cheek after the ratanish fight as an excuse to get close enough to heal him and tell him "we need you". ashton curses quietly when he realizes dorian has to go with cyrus. "to dorian, who is leaving us for his stupid brother. what the fuck is up with that." ashton says dorian is "our bag of dicks".

they're just so interesting. they're such interesting contrasts, both symbolically and in their characters, and i really hope that when (don't say 'if' it's gotta be a 'when' i am clinging to this) dorian comes back their relationship gets explored more.

[lexmakeshit]

To anyone saying that Orym has the more trauma than Laudna I just want to say you’re wrong. Yeah Ludinus’ cult attacked his home and otohan murdered his father and husband then killed him and his friends but I’m sorry Laudna was tricked by Delilah then beaten to death and hung from a tree as a warning and then spent 30 years alone with in the woods with the disembodied spirit of her murderer living in her head. Was Murdered by Otohan as a threat to Imogen then forced to relive her trauma and then woke up in the same place as when she was first killed and now Otohan is the reason her friend is dead. If we are gonna play trauma olympics she is by far the winner

Girly has been constantly going through shit the entire campaign and has been in and out of a downward spiral since the airship fight of course she is starting to lose it. Y’all could get how Liliana was brain washed by years under ludinus but can’t understand how Delilah has so deeply fucked up Laudna sense of reality that her actions are in her mind perfectly logical because all she cares about is Imogen and Delilah who is both a master manipulator and been in her head for 30+ years is using that to gain power.

I also want to point out that laudna is the last member of the group other than Dorian to have given in to a potentially corrupting influence for more power in this fight and to protect the people they love. Imogen gave in partially to predathos and got exhalted, Chet got training from the gorgenyi and gave into his inner wolf and made a deal with nanna morri, fearne and Ashton both absorbed a part of a titan and fearne made a deal with champion of asmodeous, orym made a deal with nanna morri and FCG literally gave into his inner rage and blew himself up to save them. So Laudna has spent the last few weeks watching all her friends make deals and give in for power and now that she is doing the same to protect the person she loves most in the world after watching them barely win and lose someone despite everything they have done to get more powerful she is getting shit for it.

I totally agree that laudna shouldn’t have have done what she did but orym shouldn’t have made a unilateral claim on any of the Otohan stuff so close to FCGs death especially without the group having had a chance to talk or process at all and I can totally understand how Delilah has manipulated laudna to the point that she believes that what she is saying is true.

I wanna say I am by no means hating on Orym I am just really not a fan of the way Laudna is be treated like some evil manipulative abuser when she actually a very traumatised person who is struggling in a manner very similar to someone fighting a addiction while being constantly re-traumatised which is being essentially ignored.

I genuinely love all of the characters in C3 and actually have a lot of thoughts about them particularly as allegories for the spectrum of disability and how poetic and heartbreakingly beautiful and complex they all are as characters and a group. I just have been getting really frustrated at the lack of nuance being used by some folks for a group that is deeply morally grey and some folks seeming lack of ability to assess multiple perspectives in a campaign that is all about multiple perspectives and what makes someone the good or bad guys.

Sorry for the rant I might delete this later and make what might be a more coherent post when I am more calm and it’s not so late at night but I just needed to get my thoughts out.

[ilanarose7]

Bells Hells Episode 95 Morning After Thoughts

SPOILERS BELOW!!! (This has become a weekly thing for me to help digest the episodes and I'm probably gonna keep doing it. really helps with my episode memory as well)

New favorite Campaign 3 episode unlocked!!!! The title of this episode has been released on Beacon (I won't spoil that), but I will personally be referring to it as "Shopping and Shipping" in my own head. It just had the perfect amount of everything and felt so incredibly cathartic (then stressful in the best way) after everything that's happened in recent episodes.

Let's break it down:

The Essek v Astrid verbal showdown!!! Essek appears to hold all the grudges that Caleb doesn't (or at least didn't really at the end of M9). When Astrid dropped the "Ludinus has an itch in the back of his neck" lore I was thinking back to when they first learned more about the harness and someone (I think it was either Marisha or Laura) wrote in their notes "We cut off Ludinus's head!!!" that was later read aloud. After that convo, that action seems like a decent play. That or maybe the Cadeuces-style Dispell Magic to the back of the neck. (side note: of course Fearne bought the Vasselheim version of the Kama Sutra 😂)

NEW CLOTHES FOR EVERYONE!!! We know there's new Dorian art waiting to be released since he rejoined the party, but everyone is getting an Aeor-ready makeover! It makes perfect sense, but I was still thrown off by the level of outfit upgrades and am so excited for the art!

Pumat is BACK! Well, his Simulacrum are at least. I don't care, just hearing that voice made me so happy. And also Dorian giving all his money to Orym so he can buy the armor? So what if I was squealing?

Downtime at the Cabaret ❤️ The Imodna kiss as Laudna went back upstairs. The Callowmoore flirting leads to Ashton, for the first time in a LONG time, successfully pick-pocketing Fearne. Dorian and Chetney banter back in full swing. Fearne leaving the EXU group hug to give Dorym a moment together. going back slightly but Iva Deshin made Bells Hells clock that YES, YOU ALL DO GIVE OFF POLYAMOROUS VIBES! So many character moments that have been needed in such a plot-heavy story

Ashton shows their head off to Essek! I have been waiting for this for sooooo long!!! Allura had given some answers, but talking more about how Dunamancy and the Assembly's manipulation of Dunamis has played a role in everything going on. While the cast know this info out of character, its good that they finally can do so in character as well

Laudna, Delilah, and the Sword-Shaped Elephant in the Room. Well, damn. First off, the acting in this last hour or so was AMAZING!! Also incredibly demonstrative of the level of trust at the table. Now to talk about the moment itself. The line between Laudna and Delilah has been getting blurrier and last night I don't think Marisha even knew fully where Laudna ended and Delilah began. The cast and many insightful Critters have been comparing Laudna to an addict and last night is an incredible example. The way Laudna handled it was wrong, this could have been a conversation rather than an initial attack. But was Laudna or Delilah the one making those choices? Or being manipulated into them? In the moment, the calm approach the group tried to take was the right one, but honestly, Laudna needs a harsher talking-to like what Chetney did with Ashton post-shard incident. Taliesin on 4SD said that's what saved Ashton from leaving the group. It might be something that, other than Imogen's love, may be enough of a wake-up call to help her break away from her Delilah-induced magic addiction

TLDR: The whole episode was full of amazing moments that were cathartic, informative, tense, and heartwarming. THE PERFECT BELLS HELLS EPISODE! again, that's just my opinion. I'd love to hear what everyone else thought too!

[dizegamble]

I personally don’t exactly understand why everyone is feeling pessimistic about how the campaign will be wrapped up, because we haven’t even been able to see the aftermath of the conversation with the Arch Heart.

We saw the reactions while they were talking, sure, but we haven’t seen any /actual/ nuanced discussion take place; something the BH /are/ capable of doing when they actually, you know, go out of their way to bring it up.

My optimism may be at fault for this, perhaps, and I am in no way saying that people should not feel disappointed with having another wrench get thrown into the mix. Even I feel some slight frustration. However, I am also trying to keep in mind the fact that the BH haven’t been allowed to process anything from that conversation yet.

Tldr; Maybe I’m too hopeful for the future, but I also trust that this group won’t release a god eating monster after weeks of discussion. Dorian and Ashton may agree, but one of them has not had the opportunity to process and cope in a healthy way and the other holds a deep resentment towards the gods for ignoring them.

[caeslxys]

I am SO fascinated to get your take on BH's reaction to Ludinus and Downfall.

*****SPOILERS FOR 102 BELOW*****

As someone who left Downfall with a very negative view of the gods, it's interesting to me that BHs (in particular Imogen) kept saying "but you're just like them" about Ludinus and then not realizing that she was saying that the gods are no better than Ludinus fucking Da'Leth. Yeah, Luda is a hyprocrite. Do you realize that the gods are no better? The GODS.

And BHs comparing themselves to the primes/betrayers as this "fucked-up family" completely ignores the power differential. "They're just little guys! We all make mistakes" but you're saying that about entities that can literally sling 9th levels every 6 seconds without using any resources.

Nothing that can feel and be motivated by loss, rage, fear, and revenge should have that much power. Respectfully.

Sorry this took me so long to answer! I’ve been letting my own thoughts simmer and rewatching the episode in pieces to grasp the Many Many different things that happened on my own because it was Quite A Lot and some of it (the delilah of it all, funnily enough) left me immediately with an overall sense of disappointment that I wanted to sift through before talking Thoughts so that I could determine analysis from bias lol. BUT. I DO HAVE THOUGHTS

Long answer under the read more, but tldr: Apart from Orym, Ashton, and Dorian (simultaneously the most and least surprising!) I don’t think we’ve gotten the full breadth of BH’s opinions at all. In part because this a topic of discussion that requires them actually, well, discussing it to form fully rounded opinions on but also, crucially, because they were expressing opinions and emotions in front of Ludinus. This is important, because Orym/Ashton/Dorian make the most sense to have no reason for holding their true thoughts back in front of either him or the party (obviously in Orym and Ashton’s case, but I’ll be honest in not considering what is now obvious—Dorian has no idea who this guy actually is! Of course he wasn’t opposed to raising his perspective!), whereas other characters—namely Imogen—have many more internal steps and hurdles to actually reaching a conclusion that must happen outside of Ludinus’ eye.

Alright. Long version.

I think it truly speaks to the characters that the ones who reacted the most immediately decisive were Orym—the one whose opinions wouldn’t have changed regardless of what was held within that orb (which. sigh)—Ashton—the punk, anti-authoritarian character who has had an established perspective of the gods and their power for quite some time, perspectives that were in many ways cemented in viewing this piece of history rather than dispelled—and Dorian—someone who, as mentioned earlier, has the least amount of context for who Ludinus is, but who also himself was raised in a comparatively high position of social power so as to understand exactly what Ludinus is saying about the gods’ misusing theirs.

And, of course, Imogen. I’ll admit: I was immediately shocked at her response, but in hindsight of course she responded the way she did. I have talked and gushed and wailed before at how deeply empathetic Imogen is, and how it is also her ultimate fatal flaw (demonstrated explicitly here), so of course her first thought was how she saw the feelings and motives behind the decisions made in downfall and not how it was also an extreme over-reach of power and influence. Of course she did. I think the only person she’s incapable of empathizing with is Delilah lmao.

And to that point: A lot of that seemed, on a rewatch and to me, posturing on her part. So much of Imogen is defined by her guilt and shame and self-loathing and its especially prevalent when she is playing leader—a role she is naturally very good at, but doubts constantly because she does not consider herself “good”. So, often, she does what she thinks others perceive as “good” and “right” and keeps her more complex thoughts to herself until she is in a safe space (often with Laudna), and projects who she thinks others need her to be in the moment.

Laudna, in the same vein, also shocked me that she didn’t push the breach of power here. But, again, she is also right next to Imogen in “bells hells characters most driven by/capable of empathy” (though hers is, unlike Imogen’s, often in conflict with her desires in really compelling ways) so on further reflection—and especially taking into consideration the massive amount of shame she is feeling from swordgate—of course she focused on the empathetic side of it all.

Ultimately we didn’t get much time at all for them to actually discuss and dissect their take-aways on all of downfall in a setting and context that would be free of bias and performance. If i’m honest, I think those conversations need to happen individually instead of in a group, though maybe Dorian’s inclusion and obvious clear decision on his stance being more in line with Ludinus’ may just be enough for Orym alone not to break the conversational thread again with his personal grief (and guilt, but that’s another post lol). I think their real opinions have yet to solidify even for themselves, and we’ll see them truly form in the coming episodes. The Delilah of it all notwithstanding.

Speaking of Orym’s refusal to think about anything—I think he and Imogen both are suffering from Predathos tunnel vision. Honestly I’d argue a good portion of fandom is as well. None of that conversation is ultimately about Predathos, it was about the gods and the role they play and the power they use or over-use or deserve. By focusing so intently on what we all already agree is the wrong and bad solution to this problem, we ignore the problem entirely. It’s one of my main issues with Orym’s stance this whole campaign. If we don’t ask what is to be done with the gods, and the campaign just wraps up with “we defeated the bad guys, yay!” well. What of the ruidusborn, who we know are treated unfairly and unkindly and who suffer through no fault of their own. What of the young vanguard members—the kids—who, also, are only guilty of caving to the idea of peace. What of Aeor, what of Ludinus—what of the cycle that birthed them both. To not engage with the questions being asked for hyperfixating on the Predathos of it all is to leave this campaign, in my opinion, on both a deeply unsatisfying but also deeply hopeless note. The cycle will continue. We may not see it—it may be another thousand, two thousand years before another Ludinus rises—but another Ludinus or Aeor or both will rise, because ultimately no change will have been implemented in the problems which resulted in them.

And—final note, promise—I was talking to a friend about this yesterday but when it comes down to acknowledging the societal implications of downfall, especially in Imogen’s case, I do think it’s going to have to be pointed out first. A lot of Bells Hells are characters who have suffered at the very hands they are trying to save, but also suffered in part and specifically due to a lack of access to knowledge about it all. It does not escape me that the very first scene of campaign three is Imogen attempting to gather knowledge on powers that have made her miserable for a decade and being unable to access them in a library due to her station. That is, to me, more and more becoming the underpinning theme of this campaign—especially as all Ludinus is doing in this moment with the Occultus Thalamus is displaying it; again, obviously Ludinus is wrong in his means (and arrogant in his assumptions that just because of his failures that no one else could find a solution) but this, specifically, the spreading of knowledge—that, I 100% find myself in agreeance with. So it’s not that they won’t understand what characters like Ashton and Dorian, both hyperaware of the implications of power here, are or will be saying. It’s that they literally do not know to think about it like that. Why would they. It has been intentionally kept from them.

Anyway I have no idea if that was uh. Sufficient Enough of an answer adksfjd at some point I just started yapping but! I’m intrigued, especially because of Dorian’s adamant belief, in what conclusions they’ll draw moving forward as the discussions truly begin! Hopefully! Hopefully they will discuss it!

[inconmess]

Now that I have some time to collect my thoughts after the exam, here are some of the thoughts that have been running through my head.

Ashton is straight up not giving any shit about Liliana

Orym tries but it is really hard for him and I loved watching the two of them snap and not cut corners today.

Other than that, I loved Imogen's stance on Liliana on a technical standpoint, not trusting her but at the same time cooperating enough to try keep her on your side as an inside man? Genius.

Liliana is in too deep on the other hand, maybe not about the motives of the Vanguard but on the release of Predathos in itself. Like Ashton pointed out correctly, she is self delusional and if she doesn't remove those tinted glasses, she's gonna lose her daughter.

Also, what the fuck is wrong with her??? Leaving them all in the state they are in at a very likely active warzone and vanishing? Yeah, I suppose it took some power but she could at least ensure their safety??

Orym with Otohan's sword and storming off *chefs kiss*

Finally some emotional check-ins going on, clearning the air out. Though I am curious about Laudna and her comparing them all to being creations. I mean, in a sense, it is true I suppose...

Imogen is "destined" to release Predathos as it is a part of her.

Chetney was turned into a werewolf

FCG was literally built

Fearne was specifically made to be born on one of the Ruidian flares. And Fearne taking up the Shard also, I suppose.

Ashton was in a ritual which made them Earth Genasi and then later on were literally patchworked by Milo

Laudna was merged with Delailah and is technically kind of her vessel of sorts

I think Orym isn't the only one who wouldn't fit under the "creation of destiny" or "has been created" thing unless I am missing something...

Orym and Imogen's convo and how the two of them talk about family and his partial breakdown at the situation (I miss FCG too 😭)

And finally the sending and Orym's cry for help 😭😭😭😭🥺🥺🥺🥺🥺 Someone give that man a hug?!!!

Speaking of Dorian, I love how the episode cut to the Crown Keepers after the sending and personally, it made sense for it to come at that particular point.

Listen, I would've loved to have some more time with the Bells Hells and their grieving but. But.

Orym, in his last message to Dorian (which he had received and is headed to Zephrah as a response btw) asked him to meet Keyleth, so chances are, at the time the Hells came back, Dorian is at least halfway, if not having reached Keyleth.

If that were to be the case, there is a high possibility that the Crown Keepers are with Keyleth when the Hells are meeting up with her. and narratively, there is some shit going on with the Crown Keepers that are still unaddressed and just can't be brushed off lightly.

Maybe, maybe Matt had been planning on introducing them much later in the episode. But Orym's sending also gave a perfect opening because Matt (or Robbie) cannot send a reply as Dorian without knowing the outcome of whatever is going down with the Crown Keepers, as seen in this episode.

Therefore, the sudden cutback to the Crown Keepers made total sense in a narrative manner because at this point, if Dorian is going to be actively involved henceforth, the Crown Keepers are dragging along. Opal and the Spider Queen influence what will happen in the future quite a lot more than I think many may expect because

a) Opal has personal ties with Orym and Fearne and

b) the way the Spider Queen is going about the fight, if something bad happens and if someone is hurt super bad, Orym and Fearne have to know too, just like Dorian needs to know about FCG.

and c) Well, most of the Crown Keepers are involved with the Gods. Fy'ra with the Wildmother, Morri with the Duskmaven and Dariax with the Observer.

And with the recent lore bomb pointing towards Aeor, I am pretty sure the hells are going to follow up on that just for FCG's sake (maybe even call in F.R.I.D.A for the ride, please call in F.R.I.D.A!)

I am pretty sure I am spiralling at this point but at the end... all I want to say is, I love the way the episode went and ended. I cannot wait to see more! If it airs on Tuesday or Thursday alongside the Crimson Mirror finale or the Thursday after that? I can wait patiently for that arc of the Crown Keepers to end cuz I am pretty sure at the end of it, at least 2 of the Keepers are going to join with the Hells and one is going to be Dorian. Mostly.

Apart from that, I am just gushing about how the battle went between Opal, Ted and Spider Queen vs the rest of the CK!

The crystal shard memories that are liable to corrupt or shatter? Opal being related to the Luxon shit? The sheer memories and the Spider Queen's insistence on Opal leaving or killing her friends and forcing her to make an option? So much drama! So much fun!

I might have to catch the 2nd rebroadcast to truly appreciated the second half but. But *chefs kiss* loved it today

I got introduced to C3 with the Crown Keepers and hell if I don't love those babies.

[odusseus-xvi]

Was making a huge post about the Gods, Dorian, Ashton, Orym etc because I'm sometimes very confused by some anti-god takes on here. Like I get where they are coming from and what they hope happens in the campaign but a lot of arguments are just confusing to me, but what marked me is that they are upset about the potential ending keeping the status quo about the gods. (tho you could argue, I think rightfully, that the status quo of the gods is for the most part not the source of suffering in Exandria, and in fact that a lot of it is linked to Ludinus who has been here and scheming and causing wars for more than 900 years), I admit I WOULD be disappointed in the situation just being, we kill Ludinus, everyone happy, everything fixed since the biggest Wizard jerk in history has died. (when I say jerk, I mean in Universe, the guy is almost responsible for half the non natural-deaths in Exandria. As villain of a story tho ? Amazing)

Because at that point we know the Gods ARE flawed, enough than a lot of people want them out, or want them differently. That also causes conflicts with the ones still wanting them like they are currently. Like The Gods and Ludinus scarred Exandria so much that it would make no sense that all tension would just disappear once the Wizard's gone. I don't think killing them or making them go away is a solution here, certainly not a satisfying one to me at least with what we've seen. But perhaps a change in their status, in what they do, about their current prison perhaps. I don't know, but I don't see it just, staying like it is now. (and I wouldn't be surprised if Asmodeus is planning something as well since he did everytime he was involved in a truce of some kind.) (also note that even though I don't see it staying that way etc. I do think the current Campaign's message is less about the Gods, and their situation, and everything else, and more about the Danger of people like Ludinus using real problems to feed onto their own goals, causing much more problems.)

That and also, what about the people of Ruidus ? Like there is no way they stay up there right ? They all want to descend upon Exandria, either peacefully or as warmongers, something has to happen there too right ? How will Exandria react ? How will the Gods react if they are still here when that happens ?

Now MAYBE those are questions better fit for a Campaign 4, the current one being simply, we need to stop Ludinus and Predathos. And the next one having to deal with the Aftermath.

Also

What is Vecna doing ? That's one of the things I'm VERY interested in as of late because we know most of the Betrayers are acting with the rest of the Family to live, but Vecna, unlike for example the Matron who earned her place here, isn't one of the Siblings. He is just classified as Betrayer because he wants to rule everything and kill thousands. So, is he part of the Truce ? Can he even do anything from his own prison ? Does he know about Delilah's situation or does he not care about her usefulness anymore ? That's also what intrigued me about the waves of undeads under Vasselheim where I went "MMMH ???? THE WHISPERED ONE MOVING PERHAPS ???"

I still don't know if we have to include him when Matt talks about the gods rallying their forces alltogether to save themselves and Exandria. Especially since one of his tenets dismisses ALL of the other gods including the Betrayers, so he can rule over everything

anyway just some ramblings. Tho it seems it's a real hard campaign to watch for a lot of the fandom because of it's intense moral complexity (and I'll gladly admit I don't understand even most of it obviously), I am enjoying Bells Hells' journey a LOT, this campaign is my first one live and I'm having a blast, very excited to see where this goes.

[butterflydm]

more cr103

The fact that the group that has the least exposure to the gods and the least understanding about them is the one that is sorta incidentally saving them while doing something else is... I guess a vibe, lol. But I really do hope that at least some of them take advantage of being in Vasselheim to do some godtalking and at least get even a fraction of the understanding and knowledge that VM or MN had about the gods.

It isn't necessarily all that important for the plot - 'Stop Ludinus' is the plan whether or not you give a shit about the gods, and that motive has been baked into Orym's backstory since day one - but it just feels weird that the party that knows the least about the gods is the one given the most power over their fates.

So it seems like we could end cr3 with a few different possibilities:

a. Bells Hells succeeds; Ludinus is defeated and things go back mostly to normal

b. Bells Hells fails; Ludinus succeeds to a certain extent and we end up with another calamity and cr4 is a post-apocalyptic campaign in some fashion, with the gods either eaten or chased away (Chetney brought this up in the episode, iirc)

c. Bells Hells succeeds but only after the Divine Gate gets torn down for some reason (either by Ludinus or by the gods to fight Predathos), thus leading to a world that is more like the one pre-Divergence (honestly, this one would be kinda funny if only because of how much Ashton would hate it).

I do think that the recording wouldn't have as much of an impact on faith in the gods as Ludinus thinks that it would -- everyone who knows about the Calamity already knows that 'the gods destroyed Aeor', or at least I believe that's part of the established history/lore of the series; and we see two of the gods (Everlight & Dawnfather) actively seeking to not have to destroy the city the entire time that they're there.

It would make some people lose faith, but it would also endear the gods more to others (like it has done for Launda). I just... given how wide-spread faith is irl without anything like the pluses that faith-based people get in Exandria, I would just find it unlikely that the orb would have the impact that Ludinus wants. We've seen that the only people it really 'convinced' were people who were already inclined to be unhappy with the gods (Ludinus himself, Dorian, and maybe Ashton, but I think Ashton just dislikes any kind of authority/structure and I'm not sure if the orb actually had an impact on that one way or the other)

But, of course, if the world doesn't immediately agree with him, that only gives Ludinus more reason to invade and conquer and destroy, because now his pride will be hurt over the fact that people aren't listening to him ("I am talking!").

As someone who isn't a believer irl, my main feeling about fantasy gods tends to run along the lines of "are they more helpful or more harmful?" and the Exandria gods as a whole have shown themselves to be more helpful than harmful over the course of the three campaigns (*cough* defeating Vecna *cough*), so I'd like them to stick around (since they've shown that they can mostly keep the betrayers in check with the Divine Gate in place). There are fantasy worlds where Ludinus might well be doing something heroic by wanting to take out the gods... but I don't think Exandria is one of those worlds.

Exandria is a world where the prime gods were willing to take a hard look at the consequences of their actions and do something to prevent more harm in the future, even at the cost of losing something incredibly important to them. As far as fantasy gods go, they're pretty nice! Especially the ones we met in Downfall, I feel very fond of them.

[el-huddpudd]

It's the [honesty] climb

FCG, "I enjoy eating silver more than copper."

Imogen, "I am genuinely scared to meet my mom again."

Laudna, "Deep down inside, both Delilah and I kind of want the shard.

Imogen, "I love Laudna deeply. But I'm disgusted at the thought of Delilah looking at us all the time."

Orym, "I'm super lonely all the time, especially at night. Doesn't matter if I'm bunking with one of you guys."

FCG, "Sometimes I pity some of you because you have beating hearts and opportunities and you don't do enough with them."

Orym, "I've always laughed it off but I guess I do kind of wonder if Chetney is my dad."

Ashton, "I am the reason that the Jiana Hexum job went fucking wrong and the reason why I got thrown out of a fucking window."

Fearne, "I feel like we're very ill equipped to do this job and we're gonna to fail at saving the world."

Chetney, "While wood may be the superior material to metal I do fear that with the dwindling interest in it that children will find my toys and thereby myself obsolete every year that I grow older."

FCG, "So I think it's something buried deep down in my circuitry, but every time I hurt or kill something, I feel really good. It makes me sort of relax a little bit and some of my stress goes away."

Imogen, "I know we're supposed to save the gods but I've tried talking to them my whole life and none of them will ever respond. I think I'm tainted. I don't know if I want to save gods that don't love me."

Laudna, "You know we could all ripcord out of this at any moment, right? And I don't mean this scavenger hunt, I mean saving the world, right? Sometimes I fantasize about it all the time."

Fearne, "I sometimes I do stuff to you guys while you're sleeping. Not weird stuff. I just like to look at you closely."

Ashton, "Anytime it's too quiet, I start worrying one of us or most of going to end up killing another one of us, accidentally." (Orym, very gently.)

Orym, "I have all the faith in the world you guys, all of you. And I have also spent time thinking how to neutralize each of you."

FCG, "I kind of worry that I put all my eggs in the Changebringer basket and she might betray us all. I had a really weird conversation with her and I think she's just out for herself and she might not care about me at all."

Imogen, "Fearne, I was really disappointed in you for running away from your power. You should take the shard."

Orym, "I really miss Dorian and sometimes I think that's okay and sometimes I think it isn't."

Ashton, "I feel fucking worse that I just fucked up Fearne's life way more than mine and I should've died instead of that happening."

Chetney, "I grew up in the Bramblewood outside of Westeruun and when I was a kid, I came back from learning how to make toys and found that my whole family had left. All they left behind were toys. And they ran when the Errevon the Rimelord was running across the plains so I'm kind of afraid of dragons. I had five siblings: Alabaster, Pepper, Sugarplum, Hermey, and Chad. And I was so mad that they left I never looked for any of them and now I'm pretty sure they're dead. So I think any family I have is just gonna look for a reason to leave me, that's why I won't get attached to anybody."

Chetney 2, Laudna 2, FCG 4, Fearne 2, Imogen 4, Orym 4, Ashton 3

[hugahufflepuff1]

Ashton did something that hurt them in the name of being stronger for his friends, to take on something larger than themselves. I look back and see Dorian. Grant it Dorian made a deal with spider queen Ashton made no deal. Dorian did it because he wanted to save his friends from her influence, it was his choice to bare the responsibility of the circlet ( yes in the end they all agreed with some convincing from Fearne and Dorian. But Orym, Opal and Dariax even though he was iffy still said yes bc he wanted Dorian happy and trusted Dorian). He made the agreement with Lolth to give her a champion which was supposed to be Poska and he suffered an alignment change. I just wanna see our two genasis get together and have a talk. And just imagine Orym looking at Ashton and seeing Dorian (that's if Orym knows about Dorian's deal) idk... am I just talking nonsense or does anyone see the similarities between Dorian and Ashton?

[arclundarchivist]

So Fearne is the daughter of Unseelie Nobility that has connections to flame so that’s definitely curious. I am wondering if she will finally decide to take the Shard or not?

Not gonna lie bit worried about Imogen and FCG’s admissions, and I don’t think it will at all go with a “Help Predathos” path but they were walking away from the Gods Bad narrative and now we’re winging back towards it and I had hoped we were past that, particularly with Ashton realizing that he’s been putting a lot of blame on the Gods when he shouldn’t have been.

Bit more worried about Laudna prodding Imogen and Fearne to “accept and become their darker selves” cause boy fucking howdy could that go bad.

Orym talking about how he’s always lonely and seemingly admitting feelings for Dorian and guilt over them, Laudna admitting she can’t tell where she ends and Delilah begins, and Ashton continuing to push the realization of the harm he caused by his own actions were all depressing and interesting admissions.

But Chet, admitting that the reason he tries to act aloof is that he was abandoned by his family accidentally and never thought to find them or learn what happened to them really hurt.

Loved the blind “maze” minigame, and excited for the Werewolves minigame next session.

Edit: Also Imogen saying she is *disturbed* by Delilah’s constant presence despite how much she loves Laudna needs to be talked about. Shit quite a few of their truths *need* to be talked about more.

[quipxotic]

Answers and events I hope for in C3E96; spoilers for C3E95 below the cut, obviously, and also because it got really long:

For everyone left in the room to talk about what Orym experienced in the fight. I think it’s hard to judge where people will ultimately fall on the intra-party conflict based only on what we saw in that last hour of the previous episode when, A) they woke up in the middle of a situation and may have missed some of the context, and B) were so shocked in the moment that some of them seemed unsure of how to act or what to feel. Talking about it would be helpful to everyone, including the audience. I’m particularly interested in the Ashton-Orym-Fearne of it all. Ashton tried to de-escalate and get Laudna to apologize, but was not as demonstrably supportive of Orym having the sword as Dorian and Chet were. Previously Ashton and Orym have been among each others' biggest supporters, so how does Orym feel about that reaction? Personally, I don't think this will open a rift between the tanks, but it would be bad if it did. Also, Fearne was reluctant to take sides between her two friends. How does Orym feel about that?

For Imogen to return to BH’s room and immediately blurt out that Laudna is knowingly feeding Delilah. Do I think this will happen? No*. If she did do it, might Laudna see it as a betrayal? Probably. Might it ultimately help Laudna? I think it could help to have everyone know what she's dealing with and why she's acting out of character. Plus, while the reemergence of Delilah is a recent event in-story, I am personally ready for the narrative to move on from her being the unaddressed elephant in the room. And BH definitely needs to come up with a plan before Delilah either seizes control of Laudna or Percy sees her form of dread and takes the choice out of their hands.

How is Laudna going to act towards the rest of BH after her absorption of Otohan’s dagger? In her conversation with Imogen at the end of the last episode Laudna said she "didn't mean to...," but that seemed to me to have more to do with Laudna’s fear that she’d damaged their relationship, not any actual regrets about her actions. Will she be immediately apologetic with the rest of the Hells? Will she deflect and try to act like nothing has changed? As in her conversation with Imogen, her reaction may depend on how they act toward her and whether they insist on consequences.

Some push-back or boundary setting from BH toward Delilah and Laudna’s recent actions. Again, I’m not convinced this will happen based on prior experiences and I know they’re about to head into something difficult, but ignoring what’s happening with Laudna has the potential of making that difficult situation even more dangerous. When Ashton tried to absorb the shard, he had about two-and-half to three episodes-worth of consequences and mea culpas. You can debate whether that was warranted, and I know there are strong feelings on all sides there. You can argue that the situations are different, which is certainly true. But Ashton didn’t attack anyone in the party and, intentionally or unintentionally, Laudna did. There's got to be some kind of reckoning with her doing that. It’s not about whose actions were worse, again they are different situations. And it's not about making Laudna suffer because Ashton did, but the whole point of the trust-building exercises was to build a stronger group. This is a setback in that effort and I don’t think it’s just we fans who will draw connections between the two events.

Also, as an aside, I find it funny (in an "Oh look, narrative connections!" not "Ha-ha" kind of way) that both Ashton and Laudna's respective power grabs could have/may have destructive consequences for Whitestone. One up close and the other (currently) at a distance.

For Fearne to question Orym about his pact with Nana Morri. There’s been a lot of fandom speculation around what everyone’s reactions to that will be, so I can’t wait to see how it plays out in-game. I suspect there will be some surprises.

How will the Fearne/Ashton and Orym/Dorian relationships develop? Will the potential for romantic partnerships there change the EXU trio’s friendships with each other?

Let’s go to Aeor everyone! As a C3 fan, it’ll be my first time there but I’ve seen a lot of hints and discussion from C2 fans and I adored EXU: Calamity’s depiction of the Age of Arcanum, so I’m excited about BH exploring the ruins of another city from that time period.

Essek’s reaction to BH’s…everything. To the fight and the tension in the group, yes, but also to just them as individuals. I always enjoy outside characters' impressions of the Hells.

New outfits and character art! Maybe? Hopefully?

Where are the other members of the Cerberus Assembly and where do they stand on Ludinus and his plans?

*I will be very surprised if Imogen tells everyone, but I will not be surprised if she tells at least one person about it telepathically. In the past that person would have been Orym, so it'll be telling if she chooses to confide in him this time. Given the situation, she might go to Ashton, Chet, or Fearne instead and all of them would react to that information in very different ways.