#alysanne and jaehaerys i

[horizon-verizon]

Also important to note, that Jaehaerys had always been her closest companion and protector. She literally saw him & hung out with him more and was beside him more often than most people when both were small kids, like how Rhaena was with Aegon, their eldest brother the "Uncrowned". More than Rhaena. They were closer in age and thus were more peers than with any of their siblings. They depended on eac other for most things for forever. She'd probs had a complex of loyalties & a false hope or convinced herself that Jaehaerys would "come around" until maybe Daella's death, but really didn't move off until later-later into the marriage? A downside to intramarriages or incestuous marriages, for sure. (Not that post-Dance Targs fared that much better marrying out, this is to point out a unique realized effect of these intra-marriages.)

And under both her mother Alyssa and Jaehaerys' protection, there was also a sheltering that she herself discovers when she holds her first women's courts but didn't really reflect on that she had. You see it in how she responds to Rhaena's losses after Androw dies ("why not marry, I have Jaehaerys and he's great"), very out of touch. Also how she approached the maesters to try to get them to accept the idea of girls in the Citadel. And then how she wants to get Saera back and Jaehaerys tells her how this would give them more problems than he's willing to risk, how she "never forgives" him for that -- he was not only cruel to her in a level she maybe hadn't experienced before and shown his contempt for her feelings towards their shared children/contempt for women-girls and thus given her a peak at ow he might view her, but also make her feel naive and stupid and as if she hadn't done much for him all those years. But, again, all she "doesn't know" or have access to, it's bec Jaehaerys is and has been in the way of that for his own rule, and not entirely through his own efforts (Alyssa, Rogar, system in general)!

So there is Alysanne wanting to do good for women and having much value for herself and loving being a mother and wife...but much of these things were troubled by the tension of negotiating her dependencies on someone is against her unfufilled desires/incomplete, and compromised values. These were "extra" daughters who would not rule bc they came after the first 4 or 5 who would likely rule and already built a foundation Jaehaerys and she anticipated leadin the nation forward. With viserra esp, she also would likely have projected her relationship w/Jaehaerys and her faith in that hard over Baelon and Alyssa and not like the implication of being "replacebale." Once again, she felt she was "meant" to rule with Jaehaerys and was his companion/had a strong bond with him since childhood. Viserra "messed" up this vision. Thus, to her and anticipating her husband's desires while trying to validate her own, the remaining children she shared with him both needed to be "allocated". It's possible that Alysanne tries to make up for a certain "lack" she sees in herself and correctly chalked up to how women don't get enough to themselves in protection and authority because of this sheltering and prove her own general "competence" without having to be a man...but the same sheltering has her also fall too quickly or capitulate once she's hit a wall. Cyclically, she goes to policy to "make up" for that lack.

This little insecurity is also why she wanted Gael by her side and have her avoid marriage, apart form her fear of what happened to her other mentally-not-as-"strong" daughter Daella (yeah, Daella was stubborn even as she was fear-prone, but she didn't seem all that...there?). There is such an interesting thing going on: alicent at one point found happiness and security of a kind in marriage and childbirth but she loses two too-young daughters to marriage/male intimidation/sex/childbirth and tried to prevent one from entering marriage but still failed. As if she has some deeper regrets she can't quite articulate but too-late acts on.

Anyway, she's not simply evil even as she was what she was towards her younger daughters. I think it comes from a particular style and layers of entrapment that marriage did to those she loved and herself when it ties her to someone else hse loved but did not truly..."treat her right" and she shaped herself around with no reciprocity. Ironic -- marriage can be the killer of love under patriarchy. Shiera Seastar was on point.

Alysanne set Targaryen women back. Had she been less pussy watching her misogynist husband stealing their daughter and granddaughter crown in favor of men and just selling their daughters or sending them away like some rabid dogs (justice for Viserra!)… Oh and helping her brother to steal their sister’s crown (sister who damn near raised them). She pissed me off so bad, she’s going to hell with her nasty ass husband 🙏

Even though this is true in a real sense and she hadn't been fair to her own daughters, even with Gael (when she reasonably had the more breadth to change after losing her other daughters) & even is responsible for one's death, I do also see how tirelessly she worked for women in Westeros and they do have some form of protection from noblemen because of Alicent's "Queen's Laws" (right of 1st night abolished and the Widow's Law). These are meaningful acts, even though they had less impact on Targ women directly than they did on peasant folk and other noblewomen.

Two things can be true at once; she clearly had a lot of power with Jaehaerys but what she most wanted to do--to raise the female heir apparent and have Jaehaerys' naming a girl when that opportunity arose--she found that she hit Jaehaerys' limit(s), saw how little she could do to really negate his power as the king/really understood the consequences of what being a Queen consort meant in terms of the unequal powers and subservience, and I think she was compelled more and more down the years, without really realizing it consciously, to anticipate and shape her own actions, words, and plans around what she knew and felt he'd approve or allow. Which in turn affected how she'd view her daughters and how she'd arrange their lives. We see how she's condescendingly treated by the maesters at Oldtown when she visits when she remarks that she'd like to see female maesters and how Jaehaerys never makes a comment to perhaps back her up. (Condescending because they obviously don't believe that women can be as smart as them even with one clearly being in front of their face; they probably thought of Alysanne as an exception.) ("Birth, Death , and Betrayal"):

It's quite obvious she felt more and more like she had no agency or control to do the actual things she wanted. I feel like there was most likely tiptoeing.

Yeah Jaehaerys said to Viserra that he doesn't interfere with Alysanne's decisions concerning marriages, but he says TWICE that Viserra's marriage to Theomore Manderly would be extremely beneficial to "the Iron Throne" ("Policy, Progeny, and Pain"):

...Alysanne wasn't blind or deaf to this, she herself went North to convince Alaric Stark to be more amicable towards Jaehaerys and was involved in the deal of the New Gift. Alysanne was acting for Jaehaerys' interests and then seemed to justify the wrong by making as if Viserra was disrupting the harmony of the family Alysanne is supposed to have the higher authority over (again, note that she probably felt more of her authority & agency as illusory) as both the mother and the Queen Consort. Her decision to marry Viserra off to Theomore specifically was greatly due to it being what Jaehaerys most wanted.

While she never lost courage to bring up things or confront Jaehaerys completely, she did this less and less over the years. She was always much more limited than Rhaenys, Alyssa Velaryon, & Visenya concerning politics. Perhaps she felt this and-- By how she reacts to the Braxton Beesbury duel and how she progressively gloms onto Gael--she simultaneously opted to distance herself from Jaehaerys more and more without really making big confrontations until it came to the head of Saera running away, Daella dying, Viserra dying...when things are too late.

It's a pattern for sure, but a pattern I think Alysanne didn't feel she could get out of. Ironically, it matches Rhaena's own pattern of being "too late" in regards to Alyssa Velaryon and Aerea Targaryen's deaths. Both of these women seem to burrow into their psychological "safe spaces" or coping mechanisms and eventually harm or isolate themselves from those closest to them because they are compelled to try to preserve the smallest sense of agency their privileges as dragonriding Queens in a dynasty quickly assimilated into Andal patriarchy allows.

So, kinda sure. Yes she was complicit. She made her choices, but those choices were made under social compelled personal compromises. So, not too too much on Alysanne so as to make her equal to Jaehaerys. She wasn't perfect by far and again, was responsible for her kids' deaths (Viserra and Gael and Daella) but she can't be called the same or motivated similarly as Jaehaerys was nor that her actions would have been what they were if she hadn't lived in the misogynist setting with a sexist husband she married at 13 as she did. Another perfectly flawed, misguided female character, one who really wanted to "change the world" but was confined by her gender-exclusive role. She did deserve that "Good Queen" title.

Ironically, one of the only reprieves Viserra would have had if she had married Theomore was the very widow's Law that Alysanne made sure became a thing. A small and perhaps unsatisfactory "compensation", considering. Or a lifeline? Shows us all the more the precarious state of married life for women and girls.

[kvtnisseverdeen]

it really is crazy that vermithor and silverwing belonged to jaehaerys and alysanne who were the longest reigning monarchs of house targaryen and are regarded as wise and good...only to have their dragons be mounted by bastards who partook in the fall of house targaryen

[florisbaratheons]

Nearly all the Northern lore facts were wrong

Torrhen didn't bend the knee at the Wall, he bent the knee at the Trident. Jaehaerys didn't fly to the Wall, only Alysanne did. Jaehaerys was in KL for the first six months Alysanne was in the North. Rickon Stark didn't welcome Alysanne, Alaric Stark did. Rickon was Cregan's father, not Alaric.

Alaric Stark didn't go with Alysanne to the Wall, she went by herself. Alaric sent word ahead to the Night's Watch that she was on her way. Alysanne attempted to fly Silverwing beyond the wall twice, Silverwing turned her right around and went back.

Ryan, honey, are you sure you read the book?

[malleefies]

“She aims much higher, our Viserra. I have seen the way she preens and prances around Baelon. That is the husband she desires, and not for love of him. She wants to be the queen.” Viserra Targaryen.

[littlest-gemini]

House Targaryen: It’s a family thing

[kataraavatara]

“In 86 AC, Queen Alysanne announced the betrothal of her daughter Viserra, fifteen years of age, to Theomore Manderly, the fierce old Lord of White Harbor.”

commission of my bby Viserra from @wodania

[targsource]

The Three Heads of the Dragon: Part 1

by nataa.draws on instagram

from left to right: Queen Rhaenys, King Aegon I, and Queen Visenya (1); Princess Rhaena, Queen Alysanne, and King Jaehaerys I (2); Princess Alyssa, Prince Aemon, and Prince Baelon (3)

[gotham-at-nightfall]

Valyrian Couples: Part I

Aegon I Targaryen & Rhaenys Targaryen

Aenys I Targaryen & Alyssa Velaryon

Aegon (son of Aenys) Targaryen & Rhaena Targaryen

Jaehaerys I Targaryen & Alysanne Targaryen

Baelon (son of Jaehaerys) Targaryen & Alyssa Targaryen

Viserys I Targaryen & Aemma Arryn

Rhaenyra Targaryen & Daemon Targaryen

Aegon III Targaryen and Daenaera Velaryon

Viserys II Targaryen and Larra Rogare

Daeron I Targaryen, Daena Targaryen and Baelor I Targaryen

By JotaSaraiva

PART II

[fadingstudentbananacookie]

Rhaena Targaryen, Jaehaerys I Targaryen, and Alysanne Targaryen.

Aemond Targaryen, Aegon II Targaryen, and Helaena Targaryen.

Daemon Targaryen, Viserys I Targaryen, and Rhaenyra Targaryen.

+ The Baratheon Brothers

Stannis Baratheon, Robert I Baratheon, Renly Baratheon

The Dragon Has Three Heads

[rancidjuno]

good queen alysanne and the queen she wanted to succeed her

[adarkandmagicalforest]

jaehaerys I being seen as this great king, intelligent and wise but actually being a habitual predator towards his own daughters to the point of them running away as fast as they could from kings landing/trying to marry their brothers for protection/literally committing suicide to avoid them while 'good' alysanne lies to herself everyday and also trying to marry her daughters farther and farther away from their father is

[moonlypalettes]

Jaehaerys i Targaryen and ‘Good Queen’ Alysanne Targaryen 🔥🐉

~~~~~~~~~

drawing their children next ☝️

[kate-bridgerton]

House Targaryen Line of Descent Since the Conquest From Aegon I to Daenerys I

[midnight--sadness]

this stupid ass show's timeline is so fucked up omg

according to the wikia, the year is 132 AC, which is already stupid in and of it itself but whatever, moving on.

I think it was last episode that they say that Daeron is 16, which is fine, okay, but then you remember that according to the timeskips and the wikia, Helaena is 17 and Aemond is 17-16. Jaehaerys & Jaehaera are 4 years old, so Helaena had them at 13, which is just.... yikes. But did Alicent have three children in two years? Why is Aemond's birth so uncertain when all the other major characters have birth years?

Alicent says that Gwayne was 8 and motherless when she and Otto came to court, and yet in episode 1 of the first season, Daemon mentions that Otto's wife died recently and we see Gwayne was old enough to participate in the tourney.... are there two Gwaynes or did the writers forget that they had already introduced his character? Also, him saying that he is the oldest son and should be raised at Oldtown is so stupid, because Otto is the second son and none of his children will inherite the Hightower, not unless his brother's kids all drop dead, which we know doesnt happen in the books (though they could do that in the show, who knows).

the writers make such stupid choices in regards to the timeline. Why did they make Joffrey, Aegon III and Viserys II so young when it is going to create so many problems for the narrative later on? How is Aegon going to flee on dragonback when Stormcloud is the size of a cat? Is someone going to rescue him and leave Viserys behind? One of the reasons Aegon III was so broken is because he was forced to abandon his brother and he never forgave himself. how can that happen in the show when he doesnt even have the ability to properly eat by himself?

and now they made Hugh Saera's son, when he looks like he is the same age as Daemon, and Saera was only 14 when Daemon was born in the books? hell, when he was born she hadnt even had that whole scandal business.... not to mention that they make it see like Hugh was born in Westeros, probably the Crownlands or even King's Landing itself. Are they trying to say that Saera worked at a brothel in the city while her father was king?

[silmarillaure]

Jaehaerys I: Do you think you're my daughters in every universe? Daenerys, Daella, Saera, & Viserra: Is there a universe where you don't mistreat us?

Alysanne: Do you think you're my daughter in every universe? Viserra: Is there a universe where you don't mistreat me?

Viserys I: Do you think you're my children in every universe? Aegon II, Helaena, Aemond, & Daeron: Is there a universe where you don't mistreat us?

Larra: Do you think you're my children in every universe? Aegon IV, Aemon, & Naerys: Is there a universe where you don't abandon us?

Viserys II: Do you think you're my daughter in every universe? Naerys: Is there a universe where you don't marry me to my abuser?

Aegon IV: Are you my son in every universe? Daeron II: Is there a universe where you don't hate me & try to make my life hell for no reason?

Jaehaerys II & Shaera: Do you think you're our daughter in every universe? Rhaella: Is there a universe where you don't marry me to my abuser?

Aerys II: Do you think you're my son in every universe? Rhaegar: Is there a universe where you don't mistreat me?

Rhaegar: Do you think you’re my children in every universe? Rhaenys & Aegon: Is there a universe where you don't abandon us for a teenager?

[whateverthought]

Y'all are so goofy when you say, "This Tagaryen would be Team X!" or "This Targaryen would hate this character!"

Visenya wanted to betroth 11 year-old Maegor with infant Rhaena, because of Succession Concerns, and then did have him marry Ceryse Hightower, who was 23, when he was 13. Aegon obviously believed in polyamory.

Jaehaerys and Alysanne also would have betrothed Rhaenyra and Aegon, though Jaehaerys would have just passed her over anyway. After Rhaenyra's first bastard son was born, he would have sent her to Oldtown to become a Silent Sister, like with Saera. Or maybe he would have done it after the Daemon Brothel Situation.

Alysanne while a supporter of Rhaenys, was the one to suggest the Silent Sisters as well as the one to create all those terrible matches. Daemon with Rhea, Daella with her choice of 3 grown ass men in their 40s with heirs, and the similar Viserra situation where she gave the excuse of "Duty". Not to mention the suspicious ass situation with Gael and her bastard.

Aemma also believed in duty, and was raised in the second most religious Seven-related place, the Vale. She also would have been aghast at her daughter having bastards.

Do I think Aemma would like Alicent? I don't know, but she wouldn't have supported bastards. Would Visenya care about Rhaenyra becoming Queen? Well, she would have hated Viserys for being weak and soft.