#always antizionist never antisemitic

[kuronekonerochan]

To be fair and getting all into Portuguese politics about this, it won't happen bc Montenegro is a chump and never commits to anything unless his ass is dragged there.

Historically, the Palestinian cause has never been forgotten by the left since I remember (at least since the 90s). There were always motions presented in support of palestine and the left parties were vocal about the Israeli attacks over the years and in organising monetary aid towards the gaza strip. During the government of Durão Barroso, former right-center prime minister, also a turncoat sell out who used to be a leftist in the post Portuguese democratic revolution (evil shit piss may he rot in hell) was when it began being less talked about, understandably since that scum of a rat was all smiles while he promoted the post 9/11 war on Afghanistan and later when he was the European Commissioner played a key part in the Iraq War and if there was justice in this world, should have been trialed in the Hague, but alas he got his american blood paycheck and went from that job to working for Goldman Sacks. I'm sorry for digressing here but the shame and utter rage and disgust I feel for that man, a Portuguese who has so much blood on his hands and came out winning, will never die. (For context there have been a lot of Portuguese war criminals in the era of colonialism and during the dictatorship, but this is the first one since we became a democracy). Anyways the context is right wing government, american ass kissing and "war on terror" era islamophobia that I think contributed to the Portuguese ignoring what was happening in gaza (tho the left still made motion and fundraised). Of course Portuguese right wing politicians would never criticise or defend anything their former leader did when he was the European "head" so they never comment on anything middle east related.

The following government fell shortly after amidst a political crisis and the centre "left" one that followed was 100% centrist and zero leftist (socialist in name only). Then an economic crisis, that government fell (and today there's multiple ppl from it including the PM standing trial for multiple counts of corruption), right in power again with FMI overlooking the country's finances, and during that period in 2014 the parliament voted in majority with center right and right wing parties uniting to urge the government to recognise Palestine, but the text implied they were to wait for europe to formalize it (even before that Palestine was allowed to have an embassy in Portugal). The left parties didn't vote favourably on this because they wanted Portugal to independently recognize Palestine regardless of the EU. Note that the recently elected Carlos Abreu Amorim (Sec. de Estado Adjunto e dos Assuntos Parlamentares), who is part of the current government voted against his own party on this (just to point out who the people in power now are)... Anyways that was a standby because 10 years later still waiting on the EU. After that, the government shifted to center left but all the international focus was on ukraine...and internally more corruption investigations that lead to that gov falling (still ongoing but the PM was innocent, it was a shady interference between law and politics convenient to the president, he himself trying to take attention away from his own scandal).

That leads us to right now, where a right wing PM with a precarious government elected with just about 10.000 votes more than the centre left, who never made strong statements on any idea while he was in the opposition prior to the recent elections is most likely going to wait to see how the situation goes over in the ICJ, the UN and in France and Germany, before declaring anything either way. The only thing he says is reiterate the Portuguese position (the same since Arafat lol) that we support peace and a two state solution. He recently said on a trip to Spain that he will not recognise Palestine as a state at this time.

And here is where I venture into suppositions over my personal opinion. If it were the centre left current opposition leader in power right now I think from a purely political standpoint (morality or "doing what's right for humanity" are concepts alien to the ruling class globally) he would recognize Palestine bc he is of the same party of Sec. general Guterre and some ppl in his own party would pressure him into doing it to support Guterres's work since the acknowledgement would pave the way to future peace talks between two UN nations, as is the large international opinion on the matter. He would also look at the same wing government in Spain who is moving together with Ireland to recognise Palestine, the position of the countries in the Portuguese speaking community such as Brazil, Mozambique and Angola (all of which have recognised Palestine and spoken for the palestinian cause in the UN)...and the piling up of undeniable evidence of genocide, look at France, Germany and Britain becoming isolated here in Europe over their support of Israel, even though Van der Leyen (worthy shit piece sucessor of Barroso in the american ass kissing in the detriment of european interest and also war criminal over her handling both the Ukraine and Gaza conflicts, who most certainly already has a cozy job in an American investment firm waiting for her when her term ends) is unfortunately still "speaking for europe" and I believe this would all make him finally do it. Personality wise he is also more decisive and stubborn than the PM so if he wanted to do it he would see it done regardless of backlash.

Still, since he is the opposition and has plenty of internal matters to talk about he won't do any unnecessary "damage" to himself by taking a stand and possibly lose support of the segment of the population that watches the VERY biased news and geopolitical commentary that looks like american propaganda with the choice of words framed so unfairly biased when speaking of the Israeli actions against Palestinian or more recently Iranian actions. I say this bc we get international channels on cable and the Spanish media aren't as biased and don't shy away from going more in depth covering the atrocities happening in Gaza and the West Bank. Which also talks to the biased ineptitude of the Portuguese media that with an ongoing genocide don't go directly pressing and questioning each party's leader on their stance regarding Gaza, instead preferring to let them duel only in safer internal matters.

So the Portuguese aren't being vocal about Gaza, unfortunately not caring enough about a genocide and that situation is largely due to the media treating it as a faraway war without caring for the war crimes they show the least amount possible of, and like all western media hushing down coverage of protests that ARE happening yet they get a passing mention, no one actually interviewed the people at the protests (I should know since I've been to one and only one news station was there, only taking footage of left politicians in it, to then share with the other news channels a segment of 30 secs with 10 sec of those politicians speaking). Add to that the far right was the third political party elected and their fascist voters are pro Israel (i.e. any excuse to be islamophobic and hating on Muslims), a politically shaky right wing prime minister who is still trying to take back some of the voters from the far right, personality wise is not one for voicing any sort of concrete idea or decision, and like Barroso from the same party, does a lot of obligatory american and germany ass kissing, besides he himself already being in internal controversy by the way of lying regarding the main talkpoint of his campaign and not actually fulfilling what he promised....all together that means the coward will wait to see what happens in the next months, the ICJ ruling, the UN, Van der Leyen stance and finally the outcome of Spain and Ireland's actions and wether more european countries follow it, before there is hope for Portugal to recognize Palestine as a sovereign state. Even with all that and with the tides changing pro Palestine, he might wait out and choose a moment politically convenient for himself to divert attentions, for example around the nacional budget approval that is bound to be messy bc he can't pass it alone and will have to chose to negotiate with the opposition whether with the historical rival center left in an almost unique agreement in Portuguese democracy, or negotiate with the far right and in the eventuality that neither work out, the government will fall so he might as well pass on the Palestinian hot potato to the next government, and this sets a possible (depends on who wins) discussion of Palestinian statehood to a whole year from now at best.

In conclusion,

- I don't think Portugal will acknowledge Palestine as a sovereign nation any time soon and yes I am deeply saddened and ashamed of my country, my politicians, the local media and also the fascist citizens over it.

- Fuck Durão Barroso war criminal and a disgrace to Portugal and the world. I wish upon him every misfortune and pain both in this life and the afterlife. On that note fuck Van der Leyen too.

- Free Palestine and I wish with all my soul that I live to see Netanyahu and his minions condemned at the Hague.

i once read somewhere that one of the reasons why portugal won't recognize palestine is because of the "catholic guilt" regarding the way jews were treated in portugal. do you think this is true?

Possibly. I genuinely don't know. I think the average portuguese person doesn't even know enough history of jewish ppl in this country to even understand why there's a level of guilt to begin with (just today I saw a video of a lady from Morocco and a portuguese lady comparing words thay sounded identical and the comments were portuguese assholes saying because we kind of were in Morocco they stole the words from us, like the al-Andalus was a fever dream I guess).

I genuinely also believe there is political interest behind, although I also don't know enough about it to discuss it, which ties perfectly into Portuguese people's general inability to see the gray area of any topic whatsoever.

But I don't think the majority of Portuguese people are against Palestine. Lisbon is loaded with free palestine messages and I don't know a single person who is pro israel. I know of guides in finicky situations bc the clients were israeli and tried to start shit bc of something they saw written on the walls. Most of us just try to avoid the conversation cause well we gotta do our jobs

On a governmental level however is a different conversation.

I just find it so hard to simply accept it's "catholic guilt" when this country is made of people who genuinely want to claim Cristopher Columbus for ourselves but you never know

[mashpotatoe]

im a white jew, i was born in israel,

ive lived there all my life and was brought up in an environment that fosters racism driven by nationalism, nationalism driven by racism.

in israel, they teach you jews and muslims (though usually, they just say arabs) have always been enemies, the same way the US deems the entire middle east as a inherent war zone, ridding them of the responsibility for perpetuating war in thst region.

they tell you "were the fair and humane side who strives for peace! its the arabs who never accept the offer!"

i remember the first time i began doubting that sentiment was in fourth grade, when we were having a discussion in class about the character of Saul from the Torah. the teacher was talking about how Saul, the first monarch of the Kingdom of Israel, used to fight the Philistines, and when she added that the Philistines were the natural enemy of the Israelites, she asked the class what group of people is their modern equivalent to which everyone very eagerly replied "Arabs!" and nevermind that there in that same class sat two arab boys, one of whom sat next to me, who i looked at and thought "but he isnt my enemy? hes just a boy in my class."

they teach you to hate arabs. sometimes they say it outright. sometimes they say it more carefully, or make a distinction between good and bad arabs, those who are with us and those who are against us.

in a state based on the idea of (white) jewish supremacy, they teach you jews are naturally superior. they use the conspiratorial narrative of "jews controlling the world" to their favor, giving their own watered down explanation for why antisemitism exists, saying that it must be driven by jealousy.

the zionist movement always used antisemitism to its advantage, either for reinforcing the notion of jewish supremacy or appealing to the real pain and trauma of generations, people who survived the holocaust, connecting them to stolen land where they are "guaranteed" safety ergo granting "justification" for the suffering of others.

its using peoples real pain that makes fear mongering so effective, and when the israeli population grows up being told all of their neighboring countries want to kill them, they quickly get defensive of the "only land where they can feel safe", but the only explanation ever provided for Why these neighboring countries are considered enemies is because theyre arabs.

and when it comes to palestine, it isnt even recognized as a country, nor identity. just a threat. ive talked to many people who are genuinely unaware of the occupation, and they arent willing to believe it either, because the media narrative has successfully shifted the blame on hamas. because "how could it be us? we want peace! its the terrorists who make us look bad! and their children, they grow up to be antisemites*, might as well get rid of them too!" they never stop to think what environment these children must grow up in to develop these "radical" ideas.

* what they mean by antisemite is really just antizionist, but the term anti/zionist isnt practiced in local dialect, being a zionist is treated as a given

any jew who stands against israels oppression is dubbed a self hating jew, but the biggest contributors to antisemitism is the people in charge of an ethnostate, because at any moment they could decide who is not white enough to be jewish, who is too jewish to be white, who stood against the current coalition government and who is an obedient dog.

israelis arent a monolith, but many of them have been won over, convinced its an "us v them" situation, when in reality it could never be the "us" that "loses"

the israeli government was waiting for an event like the massacre on the seventh of october to declare war, to have the so called "right to defend itself", so they could initiate the final steps of an ethnic genocide and displace, if not kill, all remaining palestinians. under the guise of bringing peace.

it isnt too late to call for a permanent ceasefire, to end the occupation.

please contact your representatives, attend protests and rallies if you are able. palestine will be free, and the flowers will rise again.

[kelluinox]

This is a prime example of why Hamasniks insist on Holocaust inversion. Why they insist on calling it a genocide, when what it really is is a drawn out, bloody, horrific war caused by a terror attack on a neighboring country, in which civilians suffer while the perpetrators hide in tunnels. They want to be able to throw the Holocaust back in our faces, even when we don't mention it. They want to be able to taunt us with it. They resent that they had to acknowledge the Holocaust in the first place. They would love nothing more than to be able to disregard it: "Oh who cares about the Holocaust? You committed one too."

That is the entire purpose

I hate how this conflict has made me suspicious of watermelon emojis because now whenever I see a user with watermelons I have to think: "OK, do they just really really like watermelons, or do they want to kill 7 million jews"

[littlestpersimmon]

So many ppl here are so lame and always fail to read between the lines or just straight up enable propaganda.. like ppl straight up just love to reblog from zionists unchecked, as if palestinian resistance is in tandem with antisemitism. Everytime someone invokes antisemitism on this website it's never about how antizionist Jews in Germany and the US are getting arrested left and right, it's never about how Jews protesting genocide are literally shunned from entire Jewish communities, no it's always about "wow look at these evil Palestinian activists hating Jews source:dude trust me".. you got entire zionist blogs here who post the rubble in gaza, captioned "for he who sows the wind reaps the whirlwind" and then in the next post invoke a millenia of our peoples suffering you all fall for it. Every time. The problem also is that so many of you view arabs as one singular monolith so a zionist talking point is also how little Jews there are in the world, all stuck in one tiny nation surrounded by arabs. When in truth Israel discouraged the many many cultures of the Jewish world to flourish, to the point *yiddish* was banned, if you look at the conservation efforts for a lot of jewish languages like Ladino and Yevanic, very very few of them are in Israel, if it is a safe place for Jews then how come so much of Jewish culture is discouraged in the name of one, singular, modern ethnostate ? How come the Russian girl who was converting to Judaism who was killed on October 10 not allowed to be buried in a Jewish cemetery? And it is bizarre how so many of you are seeing Egyptians turning into literal millionaires, charging gazans trying to escape genocide 10k usd or more per person and still have the chutzpah to think all arabs are like this enigmatic and allied force, which is an orientalized brain in motion. My g-d. Thousands and thousands of years of enduring. Only to end up like this. I really cannot believe this is where we are at. I cannot believe it. I only have to hope this is not it. The heart fucking shatters.

[hero-israel]

Here's the thing about this narrative that Palestinian resistance no matter what form is acceptable. Jewkilling cannot exist in a bubble. It cannot be politically neutral. 1000 years of European (and Arab) antisemitism culminating in genocide have ruined that. Sorry to Palestinian activists but that's just how it works. You can't murder a Jew without it being a tragedy, without it contributing to the continued global oppression of Jewish people.

And all that said, that's just if Hamas and others only targeted soldiers and police (or at least tried as best they could). The IRA didn't go out of its way to purposefully target noncombatants. Why? Probably because there isn't thousands of years of history of English people being seen as subhuman, there isn't thousands of years of anglophobic propaganda showing English people as twisted monsters preying on children and secretly undermining Irish society. The Irish national movement was not born because English refugees returned to their historical homeland and challenged the notion of Irish Supremacy. It was a pragmatic liberation movement. Resist military occupation, undermine military infrastructure designed to oppress the people. The descendants of English and Scottish settlers would even be allowed to stay if they had won. Imagine that.

These things are all tied up in each other. I'm against police brutality, I'm against the escalation and the militarization and the mistreatment of Arabs in Israel and in Judea & Samaria and Gaza and Golan and everywhere. But killing Jews can never be righteous. Sorry to anyone who feels that way but it can't. Antizionists NEED to understand that. Jews will always feel defensive and ready themselves for retaliation because of history, because of that context. Jews keep saying "prove to us a post zionist society where we all share the land won't be antisemitic" and their concerns are completely brushed off.

There's no empathy at all. A little girl can be stabbed to death and antizionists celebrate because she was a "settler," and that brave Palestinian man was defending his indigenous homeland, by targeting the weakest of his enemies. And since Israel has mandatory military service the antizionist can surmise that no Jews are Innocent. An Israeli Jew cannot be a noncombatant. They have to, otherwise the only other explanation for why Jewkilling is acceptable to them, or even feels good to them, is that they hate Jews. And as of right now, the optics are still against that. I have a sinking feeling the optics won't be against them much longer. I inherently don't trust a "liberation" movement that's all too eager to make murdering Jewish civilians praxis. I'm sick of the internet falling for this bullshit.

One of the best asks I have ever received. Thank you for sharing it and I agree with every word.

The entire progressive intersectional social-justice frame has failed Jews (or, alternately, has succeeded in excluding them), due to being intellectually colonized by a clearly fascist ideology of incessantly hating the Jew as a poisonous alien. Try to get an online activist to critically deconstruct the social assumptions they were raised with about Jews in their Muslim, Christian, or very slightly post-Christian society... it won't go well. Funny how Jews have lived in India and China for thousands of years yet you will look in vain for examples of bitter bloodthirsty kill-your-nextdoor-neighbor antisemitism in those societies. That's because the origin, the core, of Chinese and Indian societies was not "We're the people who are better than Jews."

From a review of Richard Landes' new book "Can the Whole World Be Wrong?":

[During the Second Intifada] Israelis were described at the time as the new Nazis. But the malice that was unleashed was even worse. As Landes writes, “It was mostly about being freed from a sense of obligation to the Jews, a chance to take up again the Jew-baiting so long denied Europeans by a politically correct post-Holocaust sobriety.” Landes quotes a poisonous comment made by a member of the House of Lords and reported in the Spectator, “Well, the Jews have been asking for it, and now, thank God, we can say what we think at last.” During that time, I was told something horrifyingly similar to my [=the reviewer's] face.

Your example of Irish nationalists not going out of their way to murder British children is a good one. The oft-reached comparisons between Palestine and South Africa are frivolous for many reasons as I have explained here before, and the ANC advocating and normalizing a vision of enduring racial diversity and equality is high on the list of reasons (made possible because black African identity is not predicated on a thousand-year history of hating and oppressing whites). The case of Rhodesia is even more instructive. Robert Mugabe - ROBERT MUGABE! - pleaded with the whites to stay, to live as equals, as brothers, and work together in building a better society in Zimbabwe. Ian Smith, last white PM of Rhodesia, agreed with him and stayed in Zimbabwe. If a so-called "liberation" movement is more openly dedicated to straight-up exterminating their enemies than Robert Mugabe ever was, maybe, just maybe, it shouldn't be described as "liberation" at all.

[aviad1b]

Secular Jewish ranting post.

If the Talit in my pfp scares you - Out. Antisemites - Out.

If you see anything below this cut as a rejection of Palestinian safety, then you're reading words that aren't there, and sorry-not-sorry but: You're just straight up antisemetic. No excuses, no buts.

At this point, I think I can confirm that not a single tag on tumblr is clear of i/p posts.

and I'm not just talking about general i/p posts, not "death is bad" posts, not even pro-Palestine posts, but straight up "each and every Israeli person deserves to die" posts.

They say Zionism is a political movement, yet they say every person born in a specific place is automatically a part of that movement. That is a disguise of recism, and at this point I cannot be convinced otherwise.

They say people who fled from their homes should be protected, yet somehow it's the Mizrahim's fault that they were slaughtered and pushed away into Israel.

I hate this. I want to browse the "trans rights" tag without seeing that my family deserves to die because my grandparents ran for their lives. I want to live in a world where people don't insist that my ethnicity isn't real, because somehow I'm white despite not being considered white in any actual physical fucking place.

I want to live in a world where my very existence isn't widely considered to be the cause for enormous death, and therefore invalid.

I used to ramble about how similar Antisemitism, Transphobia and Homophobia are. I'd say that all of those share the trait of trying to object to people who exist, as if objecting will make them disappear. I'd say that people who share those beliefs simply can't handle the existence of people who are proof against their theories.

As for antisemitism, I was both wrong and right. A simple glance at how those "antizionists" view the Mizrahim tells: Only considered existant when their existance can be used as a talking point, scoring "bonus points" against Israel, then thrown away not even a sentence later becomming "white" once more.

And don't even get me started on how those people view (or rather deny) Jewish ethnicity and history as a whole. Things that are a simple single google search away.

I always knew that it would come to this, but never have imagined the scale.

This isn't where I thought I'd turn out this year.

[transwukong]

i cannot wait till i'm finally move out to Israel, i cannot wait till i'm finally gonna be able to have a place of my own, because in my current country's economy, i will never be able to have one.

Also note: Since one of my friends already is being constantly harassed by "antizionists not antisemites" just for saying that they wanna move to Israel too. You will all be shamed, you will all be made fun of, idc, you will all be and always be antisemites to me. You don't know my current situation with my family, you don't know my current financial situation, you don't know my current health situation, so shut your traps before you go more mask off before u already are. Am Yisrael Chai

[starlightomatic]

whats your stance on Zionism?

Thanks for asking this!

The way I view Zionism is that it was a political movement that arose in 19th century Europe as one of many answers to antisemitism, and I hold that in my understanding. What it became has been devastatingly harmful to Palestinians, as well as in some ways harmful to Jewish culture. However it also saved a lot of Jewish lives.

On the one hand, I understand the need for a place that will explicitly never expel Jews, and always accept expelled Jews from other lands. I'm not sure what bulwark against expulsion and displacement there can be other than saying "we will not leave our future in your hands anymore." The problem, then, of course, is that creating a situation in which one ethnicity is the deciders of their own destiny in this way means artificially engineering a majority of that ethnicity, which is inherently fascistic.

So I have no idea where that leaves us. Some things folks have said that have stood out to me recently:

"If the only way to keep me safe is to commit a genocide, leave me to God." (My life isn't worth the death of thousands of children.)

"They handed us a knife and asked 'Little Jew, will you kill yourself or the others?"

And of course, Hillel: "If I am not for myself, who will be for me? If I am only for myself, what am I?"

The answer to the knife question seems like it ought to be "Neither. I'll use it to kill the person who gave me the knife and forced me to make this choice."

And this is the path a lot of Jewish antizionists take. An imperialist and antisemitic world forced us here, so let's dismantle empire and antisemitism.

And that's what I wish for too, I just... don't really think it's possible. And when so many people in the Pro-P/alestine movement are antisemitic, and see any attempts to call that in as either a defense of genocide or a derailment, then it demonstrates to me that they are not actually aligned on that solution, and would prefer the answer to "who will you kill?" to be "myself; I deserve it for being a colonizer."

On the other hand, "okay, if I have to choose, I'll kill the others" isn't something I can stomach either.

That is to say, an antisemitic world forces Zionism as a response. If someone wants to dismantle Zionism but not the conditions that made it necessary, then I can't trust that they are building a better world for all of us, and I can't get on board.

And the people who will use my answer to this to determine whether it's worth listening to my thoughts versus instantly blocking me don't seem to be invested in building that world either.

[funkopersonal]

I love how people (pro pals) literally proved me right in my post from two days ago.

I said that they always responded with "i'm not arguing with a zionist, kys" when they were wrong. and BOOM. people did! How hilarious?

Can people learn to have a civil conversation now? because i don't care what "reasons" you have its never fucking acceptable to do that. Especially to minors (which I am!).

I dont want to see any of that "wow you're playing the victim, jews aren't the victim!" card. No i'm not fuck off, you're just trying to redirect from the real antisemitism you're spouting.

I dont want to see "well actually 🤓☝️ I'm an antizionist jew." Because fine, then you don't know what being jewish means. You don't want a country that you can return to and be safe in and have a home in? Fine. But don't take that away from the thousands, if not millions of jews who do want that, who live there or deserve their right of return to their holiest land which was stolen from them from the babylonians and the neo-assyrians as early as 722 BCE.

I don't want to see "well zionists are colonists." because that just means you don't understand the history of the MENA region. because the only colonialism in that area is Arab colonialism. Because they actually DIDN'T come from the levant region, they can from the arab peninsula (see how its called the "Arab peninsula")

Now notice how I didn't deny Palestinian indigeneity? because I can understand that two places can be indigenous to the same area. but keep in mind, the philistines and Israelites lived together with the pheonicians after the Caananite civilization collapsed. Both are fucking indigenous. Get that into your skulls.

The LARGE majority of the the Pro-Israel movement is not to destroy Palestine, its to get back hostages and remove Hamas from power. On the other hand, the large majority of the Pro-Palestine movement is to destroy Israel and displace all jews.

How is this "peaceful"? how is this in any way shape or form not antisemetic because it kinda seems like you just want to cause another pogrom, because forcing jews out of their safe homeland means going into the Arab countries surrounding them that quite literally have had a history of genociding and massacring jews.

Please... have some common sense guys. Theres a better solution than "antifada revolution" and "from the river to the sea."

Thanks for this PSA, i guess.

(To Pro-Pals: stop sending me antisemitism, death threats, and the like. If you do this, you are simply not mature enough to be having this conversation with anyone, and certainly not mature enough to be "advocating" for Palestine. Because in fact, you're just making it harder for a ceasefire to come to be)

[obazervazi]

How to not be a Zionist

If you are an antizionist or nonzionist Jew or otherwise support Palestinian sovereignty and advocate for their well-being, you may find yourself nevertheless accused of being a Zionist by gentiles. And since we all know there's only one definition of Zionism, you may want to avoid being accused of wanting to exterminate the people you actually support. As such, I've made a handy guide. Here's how to convince gentiles you aren't a Zionist:

1. Never accuse an antizionist of being antisemitic. Antizionist isn't antisemitic, and it's simply impossible for someone to be both. 2. Never use the following words: complex, nuance, terrorist, tankie. 3. Never criticize Hamas. The resistance can do no wrong. The rapes didn't happen, and if they did, they were a good thing. 4. Deny Jewish history. Jews are white Europeans. 5. Post constantly about how much Palestinians are suffering. Your post history is more important than what you do in the real world. 6. Always condemn calls for ethnic cleansing of Palestinians. Never condemn calls for ethnic cleansing of Jews. 7. Do not humanize Israelis, including pro-Palestinian activists and hostages. 8. Do not speak or write in Hebrew. 9. Do not interact with Zionists. If you are not sure if your friends or family are Zionists, please refer to this list. If you are still not sure, a good rule of thumb is to just not interact with Jews. 10. Stop being Jewish. 11. Die. 12. Burn in Hell (or an atheist equivalent)

If you follow each and every one of these tips, gentiles will finally... pfft, hahahaha. Nothing you do will ever be good enough for them.

[quantumshade]

I have a question about your Israel-as-a-state vs Israel as a religious concept post… as a non-Jewish person, are there ways I can tell the difference? Obviously in the context of modern politics or direct quotes from the Torah it’s pretty easy, but outside of that is it a matter of a certain time period, or certain contexts to be aware of that show up as distinguishing features? I feel like sometimes people use the religious concept to defend modern statehood arguments in ways that aren’t so easy to tease apart.

(Or is it just all context dependent and I need to get comfortable with knowing that I’m never going to fully know? Cuz I get that that happens too.)

there’s a post here that explains the difference really well. overall its a matter of context, research, and being able to recognize propaganda for what it is. if you’re interested, there’s a lot of antizionist literature by jewish scholars that discuss this topic.

both zionists and antizionist antisemites love trying to shame jews for engaging in our religion — a religion we’ve been practicing for literal millennia — because of the use of the word israel. recently i had somebody in my notes try and tell me that mezuzot are zionist and i shouldn’t have a picture of one in my pinned post if i’m really an antizionist. they even invented a whole quote for what the mezuzah supposedly says:

this is, to be blunt, nonsense. this is what the mezuzah on my blog says:

what the person on my blog said was obviously in support of israel the state, whereas this quote refers to the religious concept of israel. it literally just means “a jewish person lives here”. i’m sure there ARE some explicitly zionist mezuzot out there, because they don’t always say the same thing, but as a concept and a tradition mezuzot are far, far older than the state of israel. this person (whose blog was completely blank. lol.) was asking me to abandon a jewish tradition because it involves the word “israel”. this is, obviously, incredibly antisemitic. that’s what my original post was about.

[spacelazarwolf]

I really feel for you and every Jewish person. I'm pro Palestine forever and have supported Palestinians and will always be antizionist and anti-Israel but I am seeing a scary amount of antisemitism from non Jewish people and my heart breaks for y'all because from now on, the world will never ever see y'all as victims. The world will see y'all as a monolith, as Israel and have no sympathy for all the suffering and oppression you've faced as Jewish people.

I'm seeing people even deny the existence of Jewish Palestinians because in their mind Jews = Israel. I'm seeing people constantly throw what y'all been through in y'all faces because of Israel and zionists. And because of Israel and zionists crying antisemitism for everything to silence others, people will not take antisemitism seriously (they never did in the first place but still....)

yeah it’s really scary out here right now. bc it’s not even that you have to explicitly label yourself as antizionist anymore, it’s that you have to be as radical, reactionary, and violent as the white leftists deciding whether or not you are a person. i’m tired of people calling for my death and straight up lying about me in order to incite harassment. i’m just tired. i got on this platform to have a place to talk about stuff, not to be driven to suicidal ideation by a bunch of white tankies over a foreign government i literally openly oppose. i’m tired. and i know they’re gonna screenshot this post and pass it around and laugh and i just don’t have the energy to care anymore. i hope harassing me makes them feel better about themselves.

[littlestpersimmon]

Most movements that center on exclusion and separatism will always fail to see (and therefore fail to dismantle in any meaningful way) systems of oppression. T3rves will complain about trans women in women's prisons and will never, ever complain about the existence of prisons in the first place, Transmeds will completely isolate themselves from any iteration of transhood that does not medicalize itself, therefore leaving the thousands of trans identities of various cultures as totally invalid, and having the medical industry be the end all be all of arbiters on the matter. Do u get what I'm saying. Any conversation around oppression that frames an oppressed demographic as exceptionally oppressed often turn into echo chambers where it becomes impossible to talk about the intricacies and intersectionalities of bigotry, often resulting into demands of unconditional support, with guilt tripping and weaponized marginalization. Being an antizionist jew has been, actual, literal hell when I know by heart every single liberal zionist Jewish argument that every moderate on this website falls for. I have to make myself clear that I put anti imperialism over my own feelings, that many many others before me have pointed out how callous it is to center jewish feelings, to invoke the millenia of our peoples suffering, to speak of antisemitism in tandem with palestinian resistance, as if speaking of palestine insinuates a steady slope onto hatred of Jews. Many cliques on this website have a bunch of enablers to exploit their own status as part of a marginalized and oppressed group to silence any criticism of Israel and America, which is to me is incredibly perverse and manipulative. If you are a true ally to Jews, any place in the world should be a safe place for us, and it should not be at the desire to build ethnostates on the expense of an indigenous population made to reckon with crimes they did not commit. I don't know.

[jewishbarbies]

If "antizionism isn't antisemitism" then antizionists should be hyper vigilant about not sounding like nazis. They should be very firmly against Jew hate, against the deaths/rapes/desired violent mass displacement of half the world's population of Jews. They shouldn't be saying "death to Israel"- again HALF the world's Jews live there, if you're saying that you don't want good things happening to millions of them. Antizionists shouldn't be mocking Jewish pain and mocking Jewish rape victims. They should be taking any antisemitism in their movement VERY seriously and beating it down. They should be checking their fucking biases, and making sure they aren't spreading conspiracy theories and blood libel.

Antizionists have done the exact opposite to all of this. They are some of the most gleefully hateful and genocidal people on this platform. So until they make a monumental effort to correct their bullshit I will always consider them to be neo nazis. Period. And its become extremely obvious they won't ever bother to fix their movement

they’ve given themselves permission to call anyone a nazi and make anything the “new holocaust”, and they allow themselves to do and say anything to people they don’t like. it’s body positivity until someone annoying is plus size, balding, or has acne. it’s “we’re all going through hard times” when talking about themselves, but when someone else lives with their parents/family they’re losers and deadbeats. it’s anti racism and blm until a poc disagrees with them and then it’s okay to use slurs against them. they’re feminists until a woman doesn’t want to embody toxic masculinity to be considered strong. don’t get me started on the lgbt+ community and how leftists are never satisfied with the way other people identify or understand their own sexuality/gender. these contradictions and hypocrisies have been happening on a large scale for many years now, and it’s all culminated in what we’re seeing now. justifying murder, rape, and torture based on race, religion, ethnicity, and where you were born. antizionism is just the fancy new(ish) label everyone is using to make themselves feel better about it.

[hero-israel]

What's so annoying about this constant uwu I'm baby leftist refrain of "just because you're indigenous to a place doesn't mean you have the right to displace people" that's coming from goyim and antizionist self hating Jews alike is that... Jews decolonizing Eretz Yisrael did not have to displace anyone. That was never the intended goal of even the most conservative, if you can call them this, racist Zionist leaders?

Jews resettling our homeland en masse does not fucking mean displacing anyone. These are two separate events. And blaming Jewish immigration for the displacement of Arabs is ignorant at best. It's a clear red flag they don't know the complexities of the Nakba, the different (if concurrent) factors for different groups of Palestinians to flee or be forced out in waves.

In any event, had Palestine accepted the partition plan, no displacement would have occurred. No war = no ethnic cleansing. Even though Jewish communities were routinely destroyed leading up to the partition, there still was no general will to cleanse the land of Palestinians among Jews. Many of the 750,000 Palestinians were displaced as a military exigency by a nascent Israel. This would not have occurred had the partition plan gone as intended. This would not have occurred had their been no partition plan at all.

Jewish resettlement =/= cleansing Arabs.

And at worst, acting like Jewish decolonization itself is an act of displacement, that all this was inevitable because of the mere presence of Jews increasing in Palestine, or some character of ~European~ Kha- I mean- Jew-ish people, or that their was some secret Zionist committee who all got together to drink blood in their Bank Palaces and circle jerked at the idea of cleansing Palestine... I mean then you're just antisemitic. Jews moving anywhere is not a crime, it is not a plague, it is not a humanitarian catastrophe. Jews should not be barred from any country. Human migration, at least when it's not military and financially expediated by an imperial power, is never immoral.

I don't think the Ottomans resettling Circassians and Balkan Muslims in the region was bad. I don't think Egyptians and other Arabs immigrating to Palestine in the 19th century was bad. The pro Palestinian side denies that these groups even came to Palestine, but if they were forced to acknowledge it, I doubt they would say they were displacing the totally real and indigenous Palestinian People? Probably because Arabs/Muslims are granted inherent legitimacy to them. This was always about "The Ummah 💪" to them. A Malaysian has more of a right to live in Palestine than a Jew from the Old Yishuv. They just hate Jews.

The Jewish resettlers built towns on empty land. They bought as much land as they could legally from the Ottomans. There were zero pogroms against Arab communities. There was space and economic opportunity for Jews and Arabs alike, and every Zionist leader acknowledged this. Does this mean everything was perfect and the Jews were totally faultless? Of course not. But the Zionists set out with a clear code of conduct for Zionism to occur. This is historical fact.

Even if not all of the 750,000 Palestinians who became refugees were specifically cleansed by the proto IDF, 200,000 or so people being cleansed is still a crime against humanity. Almost a million people fleeing their country at once is still a tragedy. But this was not an inevitable and direct consequence of Jews rebuilding Israel. There is a timeline where Zionism still occurred and was successful, and no Nakba occurred. This was 100% always a possible outcome.

Insisting otherwise means you think Zionism itself is a genocidal colonial mindset, which clearly all these people do believe wholeheartedly. But we'll never get anywhere as long as people don't recognize the umbrella of connotations and ideas that Zionism held and still holds. We'll never get anywhere while people still treat Jews living in our homeland as foreign suspicious duplicitous dangerous interlopers. Why should Jews come to the table if we're treated as the enemy no matter what? If the very core of Israeli identity is treated as rotten and not worthy of, not just respect, but life?

Excellent points throughout!

Retconning Zionism into being only about refugee displacement is also done to stifle discussion of the partition plans of 1947 (or 1937). Palestiners want to have their cake and eat it too - nonstop crying over the decisions of 1940s Jews, disregard and denialism of those of 1940s Arabs. The talking point is always "Why should they have given an equal share of the land / the best land / ANY land to new immigrants?" Funny how Jewish immigration was such a threat that it was perfectly understandable and natural for Arabs to riot and massacre to make it stop, yet not enough of a threat to consider that maybe it would get bigger and that a negotiated compromise would be a good idea. The only thought, the only goal, was killing.

(Similar: "there can't be a 2SS because of the settlers, let's make a 1SS" - the settlers would still be there in a 1SS, so they aren't the block. The block is refusing to allow for any Israel at all. Winning is the Jews losing.)

[gayhenrycreel]

okay but surely yous are seeing this too

ive seen:

zionists who unironically believe in blood libel

zionists who are pro palestine and believe that jewish people are indigenous to israel and peace on both sides is possible

zionists who are anti palestine

antizionists who are pro palestine and believe that jewish people are indigenous to israel and peace on both sides is possible

antizionists who unironically believe in blood libel

note that this is based on how people identify themselves.

im just gonna say, stop fighting over a word with such a flexible definition that people who are supposedly on opposite sides have the exact same view, and start fighting against the real enemy: dehumanization

the instant you stop seeing someone as a person is the moment you have given in to fascism.

peace is possible. we need to abolish governments. the israeli government is trying to start a regional war. it obviously knows this. this war would not be possible without america.

the problem is not judaism or islam or civilians of any country.

the problem is hierarchy. it has always been hierarchy.

america uses israel as a weapon against palestine. america is killing people and using israel so our ingrained antisemitism gets violent. dont fall for it.

people should be allowed to live in their homeland. that includes palestinians and israelis. america wants you to take out your rage on judaism.

its always the governments, never the civilians.