#also it shouldnt need to be said but this post includes trans women

[mintedwitcher]

fun fact actually: women can have independent thoughts and feelings about their own appearance without it being some larger social commentary on women's empowerment hope this helps :)

[angel-archivist]

It's so interesting and so exceedingly frustrating how agab is being utilized now within the queer community as a way to isolate and sort nonbinary and genderqueer folks into binary boxes that determine their moral purity levels, and their authority to do and write and exist.

The way nonbinary writers are being put under accusation of fetishizing gay men while their AGAB is continually brought up in a way that feels like queer-space-approved misgendering.

The way feminist circles that are supposedly trans-inclusive will use the word AFAB in a way that implicitly but intentionally isolates nonbinary people who aren't AFAB from joining. It's for women*.

The way the language is already flawed and leaves out intersex folks from the conversations while focusing on a binary of sex that isn't truthful.

The constant obsessing over whether someone is AFAB or AMAB and whether or not that gives them the privilege to join, do, write, or be present in certain spaces really really concerns me. How are we supposed to dismantle a binary system of gender if we can't even move past forcibly assigning and focusing on people's genders assigned at birth?

[ablednt]

Im not a terf and im sending this in 100% good faith because I like u and i like ur blog but the women post was not it. I think its valid to want more inclusive language but when cis women talk about their oppression they should be allowed to say women because they are talking about their own experiences, u know? Policing an oppressed group of people’s language use when talking about their oppression is peak entitlement.. this is like telling disabled people they cant say disabled while talking about their oppression because other people experience oppression rooted in ableism (any oppression that paints a group as less capable or less intelligent comes from ableism)

Also, while ur right that in some aspects cis women have privilege over trans men (cis privilege) it’s really dangerous to act like trans men are never misogynistic because they often are. Same with nb people. It’s not that black and white, u kno? Anyways i hope the terfs leave you alone soon /:

Yeah maybe I could have been extra clear but I didn't say they shouldn't use the word to talk about their own experiences.

Every discussion on misogyny uses the terms women and men only, centers the cis binary only. Any resources for victims of misogyny and for misogynistic abuse use the terms for women only.

And there's entire discourse groups of cis women dedicated to being transphobic to transmasc and nonbinary people because they can't realize that whilst transmascs can be misogynistic and I'm not at all denying that they are still largely victims of misogyny. Most of the transmascs I know are because a large part of the community isn't able to magically become a man in the eyes of cis men. It's just not nearly as simple as cis and binary people want to make it.

I'm frustrated because I am not allowed to be nonbinary in the eyes of cis women. Even the ones who are supportive of me call me a woman regularly, because I undoubtedly experience misogyny so they will always view me as a woman. Until recently I've always said I'm woman-aligned solely because I knew cis people would never acknowledge me as anything different than that and even when I've tried to gently remind people otherwise it was made clear by the community if I wanted resources for my abuse, if I wanted any space for discussion on just about anything, if I wanted any acknowledgement for being "not man" then I had to ID as a woman.

So I tried to word that post in a way that would get it through to cis women that if they arent talking about themselves or binary women, if they are talking about a general issue that they're trying to start a community discussion about, then they need to stop excluding nonbinary people and everyone else with the same experiences.

Because I'm very tired having that label forced on me every time someone talks about our shared experiences. It's not just women who experience misogyny, and I am not going to change that view just because cis women don't want to think about gender outside of their own experiences.

We have to bend over backwards for cis women because of the misogyny they face even when we face the exact same things. Like not only do I have cis men making my life a living hell the same as theirs I have to deal with their transphobia and forcing a binary on me. Cis men have never and will never acknowledge nonbinary people and gnc transmascs who aren't trying to appeal to their perceptions of men as men. So we don't get the same privilege as cis men and can and often do experience the same things as cis women, all of this is misogyny so why should we only get to call it that if we call ourselves women?

The point of that post was "please use inclusive language before I drown in the dysphoria that I'm getting from being forced by the whole of society to ID as a woman to have my problems acknowledged."

But I was trying to be patient and polite about it and when I said "limit the word woman as much as possible" it was because cis people have had a history of doing the bare minimum so if they tried that they'd still be very much underdoing it. But I shouldnt have said that I should have made it clear from the start and that's on me tbf. Because it was too easily misunderstood and too easily demonized (not by you obvs your criticisms are valid) as well.

I could have worded it better yes. But I'm allowed to talk about the transphobia I face as a nonbinary person to cis women specifically and I'm allowed to ask that they acknowledge their privilege and do something about it.

I will be deleting that post soon anyway because it's now just a swarming ground for transmisogynists and if I remake it ill reword it.

But I'm done trying to appeal to cis women because it's very clear to me if we aren't telling them we're basically cis women but please call us by they/them haha then they will decide we don't belong in their spaces and we don't deserve their solidarity. And that's absolutely crushing to me but until cis women start to acknowledge that gender is so unbelievably complicated and that intersectional feminism means acknowledging that everyone who isn't a cis man will experience a fluctuating level of misogyny based on how they're perceived then we will achieve nothing. And I'm tired of it.

Basically I'm disillusioned with cis feminism because they say it's intersectional but that comes with the unspoken expectation that people who aren't cis (including trans women because they get put through the worst of it because they have TME people as a whole to deal with and I cannot speak on what that's like as I'm TME) cater to them and support them wordlessly and put all of our needs secondary.

Cis women talking about their own experiences and being cis women isn't the problem and I never ment to apply that but the label "woman" is forced on so many trans and nonbinary people who don't ID with it automatically because it is the only label ever used to discuss misogyny because cis women are the ones leading every convo and that's exactly the problem.

Hopefully that gives some insight.

[nb-jesus]

this post is in regards to this post. it isnt letting me reblog the post from OP so im either blocked or my computer is funky. so, ive made my own post. @nondysphoric-enby here is my response :D

1) what does my age have to do with anything?

2) youre making me out to be condescending when i never was.

3) *cracks knuckles* here we go

this is what i presume to be an editorial on the credibility of the DSM 5 and the ICD-10. it features both pros and cons. its own sources are listed on the bottom of the page.

this is an opinion piece on the credibility of the DSM 5. its written by a man with a doctorate. if you look at the right side of this page, you can see he was the chair of the DSM 4 task force and is a professor at Duke.

this is a scientific study on the credibility of ICD-10 diagnoses. as mentioned in the editorial i linked, the ICD-10 is not a mental health diagnostic manual in itself, but features a chapter for mental health disorders instead. its used by more professionals than just psychiatrists and therapists, so it has to be general with its wording so that other professionals can understand it and are able to use it to diagnose mental disorders, which the editorial also brings up is a thing that happens.

it is true that Lamba legal says not all transgender people experience gender dysphoria, but the rest of the questions on the FAQ concern gender dysphoria and transitioning. Lambda legal, as far as i can tell, is a nonprofit organization that provides legal counsel for LGBT individuals. this being so, they can only really provide legal counsel to dysphoric individuals seeking healthcare (such as HRT and surgeries) because nondysphoric transgender people probably wont transition. to be gender nondysphoric means to not experience distress because of ones sex, right? is a nondysphoric trans person transitions, what is the point? if them transitioning “makes them more comfortable” then i would think they probably had dysphoria, but just didnt know so. transitioning exists to make ones body reflect ones gender, right? but if a nondysphoric trans person transitions while still comfortable with their natal sex, does that not mean they would develop dysphoria over this? there are a lot of cases of detransitioners who thought they were trans, and tried to transition, but ended up having to stop because they ultimately developed gender dysphoria. if you look at some radfem blogs on here, you can see they do indeed exist. my point is, why is a legal firm credible if they only provide services (which i would assume means only legal counseling a.k.a lawyers) to dysphoric trans people? correct me if im wrong, but legal counseling means “ A counsel or a counsellor at law is a person who gives advice and deals with various issues, particularly in legal matters. It is a title often used interchangeably with the title of lawyer.” according to google. let me reiterate the point of the definition, “a person who gives advice and deals with various issues, particularly in legal matters.” if theyre a credible source, would they not provide services to all transgender people? that question leads back to the question of why would nondysphoric transgender people transition if they are not distressed by their sex. do you see my point?

this is a report on the APA’s involvement in CIA torture after 9/11. this is an article about five (5) APA psychologists and their involvement in forced feeding tube feedings on prisoners in Guantanamo Bay. this is the APA’s code of ethics. it says in the general principles that “ Psychologists strive to benefit those with whom they work and take care to do no harm.” there were revisions to this code in 2010 and 2016 as stated on the page itself. however, does this mean they did not believe this statement--and the others in the rest of the sections--before? to me, it appears not, because of the aforementioned links in this paragraph.

it is true transequality.org says that “ Not all transgender people have gender dysphoria. On its own, being transgender is not considered a medical condition. Many transgender people do not experience serious anxiety or stress associated with the difference between their gender identity and their gender of birth, and so may not have gender dysphoria.” i agree with the fact that transgenderism in itself isnt a medical condition. its gender dysphoria that is; more specifically, its a neurological condition. transgenderism is the symptom of gender dysphoria. that being said, my points in the paragraph about Lambda legal stand even more starkly.

it is also true the NHS gender clinics say “not all gender diverse people experience gender dysphoria”, but in the next paragraph, they list “androgynous” as a diverse identity they experience in their clinics. androgynous is a presentation descriptor label. cisgender people can be androgynous. they also list “gender neutral” as a diverse identity people experience in their clinics. gender neutral is very vague in meaning. do they mean agender people? androgynous people? cisgender people who just dont care what people call them? and so on and so forth. they use the Interim Gender Dysphoria Protocol and Service Guideline 2013/14 and the The Royal College of Psychiatry Good Practice Guidelines for the Assessment and Treatment of Adults with Gender Dysphoria 201 to help care for their patients. the Interim Gender Dysphoria protocol has a graphic early in the many pages that shows if someone does not get a diagnosis of gender dysphoria, they are discharged or sent elsewhere for other treatment. it also shows that if a diagnosis couldnt be made, then more observation is done, and if no diagnosis is made, they are again discharged or sent elsewhere for other treatment (the graphic is on page 7). the Royal College of Psychiatry does indeed say not all “gender variant” people or gender-non-conforming people experience gender dysphoria (they say this on page 14). they never explicitly say transgender or transsexual in that paragraph, only stuff about diversity. “gender variant” doesnt make sense to me, personally, because transgender/transsexual are not dirty words. that is my personal opinion, so i dont know how others feel about it. in terms of counting gender-non-conforming people, that doesnt make sense either. cisgender people can be gender-non-conforming, and they dont need services from a gender identity clinic.

the WHO revised their definition of gender dysphoria and moved it from a mental health condition to a sexual health condition back in 2018, if i can recall correctly. i cant find the exact page where ive seen them say gender dysphoria isnt needed to be transgender, but i did find this. on that page, they say gender is the socially constructed characteristics of men and women. if gender is a social construct, which is what theyre saying but in simpler terms, then why is it so important for people to transition and alleviate gender dysphoria? if its to make them more comfortable in their bodies, why do the terms transgender/transsexual and gender dysphoria even exist, if gender is a social construct? would treatments for the discomfort transgender people experience with their bodies just be something else? or would there even be treatments at all? i know some of the questions ive asked in this whole thing can seem like reaches, but i really just want to stress the ideas that some people may think of if they hear of these things. to my knowledge, the WHO also listed gender-non-conforming people in their definition of transgender. though ive also heard they later say on that page that not all gender-non-conforming people are transgender, its weird they would even include it in the first place.

side note: terfs say gender is a social construct, too.

taking sources at face value (”why medical professionals shouldnt be trusted and how they dont actually mean what they said”) isnt really... the greatest thing to do. a common point yall tucutes make is that only you know your gender. if thats true, then why do yall take what medical professionals say about being transgender as 100% fact?

calling transmeds the “anti-vaxxers and flat earthers of the trans community” is gross. transmeds havent killed people because we havent gotten vaccinated.

if you respond, id appreciate it if you could be civil <3 thank you! i look forward to getting your response :D

[jean-snow]

So, I owe some people an apology, including but not limited to @nintendude69

I know I said I wouldn’t respond, but thanks for replying to my post all the same.

when we try to explain our discomfort that this imagery shouldnt be a spearhead of womanhood and that we are heavily marginalized in spaces which are supposed to support us, every single time we are dismissed as “silencing women”

it’s very clear that none of those women have any interest in making womens’ spaces comfortable or accessible or safe for women with different genitals

Yeah, I need to apologize for that, and I’m sorry. I can see that I stumbled into a broader context of hostility that casts trans women as aggressors for standing up for their rights and comfort, and unintentionally replicated that context. I should have been more careful when talking about silencing, clearer that I do think that this imagery is fine for individual women unaffiliated with the organizers of the march but should not be the official imagery or the only imagery allowed and supported, and that we do need to step up efforts to make these events safe and comfortable for women of all body types and genitals. I don’t know the best way to make this happen while still allowing* cis women to be vocal about their own bodies, since part of the problem is that trans women are feeling drowned out, but I’m willing to listen.

*not the best word – I’m not trying to imply that there are efforts to forbid anything – but I hope you know what I mean.

I do stand by my opinion that those specific signs are OK as a response to Trump’s comments, but you’re right that silencing and derailing are the wrong words to use, as they imply an intent that isn’t there, and you’re also right that there is a much bigger context of marginalization that I failed to take into account.

More responses to your specific points beneath the cut.

Regarding the signs being offensive to sexual assault survivors, some of the women carrying them are also likely survivors. It’s hard to know who has experienced sexual assault, and what’s hurtful or distasteful for one survivor may be empowering to another (I don’t like that word but can’t think of a better one), and when that happens there’s no easy answer.

trans women have vast investments in the same institutions which are backing reproductive freedom rights

This is absolutely true, and I don’t want to imply otherwise.

our body parts as women, even though they aren’t the same, are also heavily stigmatized. thats because it’s women who are targeted by misogyny, not people with vaginas

I agree with this. I think it’s important to challenge that stigma in both cases.

planned parenthood is how a lot of us receive medical care). and none of us are trying to tear down attempts to end the stigma of body parts

Again, totally agree with you. The reason why I tried to clarify in the first place is that I wanted to say that I didn’t think any of you are trying to tear down attempts to end stigma.

when an event called the womens march waves vulva/uterus imagery as its flag, thats othering

I also agree with you there. This should not be the official slogan or flag of the march. (Was it? I didn’t think that it was, but my experience was limited to my own city.) I’m talking only about signs by individual women unaffiliated with the organizers, and I should have been clearer on that point.

when that same event literally pulls the plug on a trans women who is speaking about trans women, that’s an aggression against us

I was not aware that this happened. That’s seriously bad, and yes, it’s an aggression. Do you have more details on when this occurred? (Only if you want to – I haven’t seen anything about it, and if that’s going on I’d like to know, but I’ll also be googling it on my own).

ndividuals celebrating their body in the face of its stigmatization is great! we’re all for it! however, at these events, it’s something only cis dyadic women are allowed

Also agree with you that this is a problem, and cis women should make it safer and more possible for trans women to celebrate their own bodies.

[valorousowl]

So I'd said I'd complain here. Because I want to. But I also don't want to. Under the cut because sensitive shit.

My father died two weeks ago on Sunday. I've made about 3 posts about that. Last week we had some funerary services. Mom is having a month long wake for people to pay their respects to his ashes which will be mixed with hers following her death and then buried together, likely in the Military Cemetary in Pennsylvania where her brother is also buried.

I performed some of the services, reading

Psalms over his remains from his Lutheran service book at my mother's request. I also said prayers over his remains a few times and blessed a cross she's received as a bereavement gift.

Other than that we just spent a whole lot of time together, not enough, and talked a whole lot.

This is thw second funeral I've been at in 6 months. In may my Uncle Jack died and if home down briefly for that. An aunt had died cut In that time, Ngoc, but I wasn't close so I ended up not going/not invite to her funeral.

My sisters at that time, had been quite angry that id gone to his among other things, despite the fact he'd been like a second father to me and always looked out for me during high school.

To make things simple I'm gonna bullet what they did last time under their names.

Page

Bitched a lot about me choosing a nonblood relative over a blood relative

Had a whole homophobic* rant about it not being fair the family accepts my wife but not her girlfriendbeating, childabusing, alcoholic, lazy, boyfriend.

Ended up leaving me until way after the funeral ended because she was pissed at me. My other sister had to get us and take us to the after part.

Not great but not bad comparitively.

Hillary

Ended up showing up late to pick us up from the pick up location in Ithaca. I literally can't give her my address it's that bad.

I had to drive us down. She'd programmed her gps, two of them, to give conflicting turns so the other was no help when I got lost after Harrisburg.

Wanted to sleep at a rest stop parking lot only halfway through, this is the DAY OF the funeral.

Literally started screaming at me for getting lost and said "I drive like a man"

Told me she'd kill me for transitioning when I joked that I can't drive like a man when it's so expensive to transition**.

Repeated it, making sure I looked her in the eyes, in front of a witness, that she will kill*** me if I ever transition.

Tried to drop in unannounced at 6 am at the mother of the dead aunt to pay condolences. Even if I'd been invited that'd be supremely rude.

Immediately went to sleep when we arrived about an hour or two BEFORE the funeral.

Continued to hang all over me and call me ungrateful for not visiting for almost 4 years before this.

That was last time.

This time she did something worse, and what makes it even worse was the fact that it was our FATHER.

I know it shouldnt matter because family is family but she was there when he died and had tried to get ahold of me at work before it was too late. All of this made me think she was at least acting like a decent human being. I was wrong. I know people process grief differently and I'm no different, im still fluctuating between denial and anger and even mom is pushing it far from her mind so she doesn't have to face the reality of it. But there's certain things that are unforgivable.

Page in comparison was really kind, so anything she did out of frustration I'm skipping this time because she made an effort to be civil.

Hillary

Lent us her bedroom which was nice, except she was in there all the time. Like not to get stuff she needed she was just hanging out in there all the time. And I know you're thinking "It's her room, stop being an asshole!" Except it brings me to point two. She'd especially do it after picking fights, so that literally we didn't have anywhere to get away from her. She'd do this when I lived there too, except she'd do it in MY room, which had literally no way of locking her out as we shared one connecting door that only locked in her side. She does this for attention so she cannot be ignored.

We went out to her work, where she introduced me to Everyone as her daughter. There's about three problems there alone, but I had to be polite to her co-workers. She did so so she could basically just mooch off the free samples. Which they all commented on, pointedly.

Afterward she had me drive just to start an argument about politics, literally took me down several new roads I didn't know, and got mad when I wouldn't make the turns instinctively and made me make what were basically illegal turns. She made up for this by buying my therapy cat some things at Wal-Mart including a fidget spinner****. Then stayed in our room for three more hours.

The next morning she acted like nothing had changed and said we were going out to eat. We went to The Green Dragon which is a fancier Asian buffet with a variety of dishes. It was nice. Until she started discussing politics LOUDLY. It wasn't that kind of restaurant, it was mostly older people, like 80% 60-80 year olds on the early bird special, not somewhere you want to talk politics in rural Amish country Pennsylvania.

I told her three times, we aren't talking about that here and now.

She insisted she was talking to "My friend*****"

I told her neither of us wanted to talk to her about it so she dropped it for a while.

It wasn't long before she was back on her bullshit. She went on about infowars or some shit. (She doesn't like him, per se, but she's a "conservative in a gay hat" type) and how it was hilarious to see him get ripped apart over "Michael obama"

I tell her it's pronounced Michelle. She replied "no it's not! He's really a man, haven't you seen?" And extrapolated from there. I told her she can't call women she doesnt like men just because she doesn't like them or isn't attracted to them. (She does this)

At this point, she continues on about how Michelle is "a transgender or whatever", not really a woman, had a penis, and even without my biases, she still is SHOUTING THIS IN A PACKED RESTAURANT FULL OF OLD PEOPLE IN RED PA

I tell her to back off because she doesn't know anything about trans people and maybe she should just not talk about it because I'm not going to talk to her about it. To which of course she replies that she knows so much better because she knows lots of """"""real trans people"""""

She goes on about how they're disgusting, they smell bad, they're bad people, she outed her friend who I didn't know was trans and said that she (She managed proper pronouns for her at first then reverted to calling her a man) forced her to support her even though she was *insert insults* and even went so far as to call them... rather us, mentally ill freaks.****** She insists we wouldn't have high suicide rates of we didn't "pretend to be the other gender and accept what we really are!"

I'm done. I've had enough. I just get up and say "I'm going to the bathroom" and I literally walk away and lock myself in the family bathroom. While I'm gone she asks what my problem is and my wife tells her off, basically that she doesn't get to decide anyone else's journey for them, it costs 0.00 USD to respect people's identies and not be a fuck. To which Hillary says "don't tell me she's one too" which I'm not annoting because I've already made two notes on this. Rowan tells her "It's not my story to tell,"

"That tells me all I need to know." (Yeah no shit Sherlock you were told outright)

Rowan says she's gonna check on me, so Hiillary tells her "well, tell her her mother's dead. She doesn't have one anymore."#

##

So I'm having a breakdown in a public bathroom, on the phone with my mother, because she has humiliated me and outed me to a restaurant of strangers, and she still keeps us out with her for another hour past leaving the restaurant even when I said I wanted to go home.

She immediately tried to retract and say that first off, "[I] don't understand how hard it is and [I] don't understand the choice [I'm] making" I am not talking to her about this.

She insists she'll always support me. I want to go home.

Here's where she actually took I to Wal-Mart. Rowan has reminded me this is what the Wal-Mart trip was to make up for. On that note. She tried again to say she'd "always support me and I know it". I reminded her she told me last time she said she'd kill me over it. She denied it and I told her I still had logs to which she said "ugh, okay whatever!"

This all led to outing me to the REST of the family, which thank God they took better than her. They admitted they didn't understand and hoped I'd get lots of doctors who could help me transition safely with my health issues. Overall it was better than expected but I'm the second openly trans member of the family.

She continued to say that I hold grudges and I shouldn't be so sensitive among other things but that's really all I have the spoons for. This took three hours to write as is. So yeah, additional notes are below. This is why I will never live in PA again and never live near her again. All of this when we were supposed to be mourning our dead father.

*Its homophobic from perspective because I'm only out as a lesbian at this point.

**She is a (closet-bi) lesbian who has been told twice at this point that I'm trans. She's said I'm confused. I don't know what I am. She didn't give birth to a boy etc.

***This is about the third time in my life she's told me if it was up to her she'd have killed me. She said she wanted to abort me, she said if I'd been a boy (xy) she would have. She says if they wouldn't let her, she'd have smothered me coming out and as it stands as a "girl" (xx) she planned to orphan me if mom hadn't told her to being me home.

**** I don't even know. She insists cats love fidget spinners. Mine doesn't care.

***** I don't have to explain why this is fucked up. But I will. If you havent had this situation happen to you, regardless of sexuality and presentation, it means that person who is so important to you to be your significant other, does not measure up. Other than dehumanizing them it's just in general a shitty move. And when they dont even use your SOs name it's clear they're seen just as an accessory of you.

****** y'all remember I've already told her I'm trans? I have the Facebook logs from that convo still.

#I got sick of counting stars, so we're switching to hashes. I'm adopted. Hillary is my biological mother and we were both adopted by the same charitable lady. Her statement doesnt make a lick of sense, mother is at home. She constantly tries to insist she's my mother after all of the above and more I can't even go into here.

## If I knew all it's take was coming out as trans for hee to disown me, I would have much sooner. Soon than I did. She'll forget this in less than six months likely. Because I'm not important enough to expend memory on. I'm marginally okay with this.