#also i can 100% see Beren and Haleth being besties and talking about being mortal women with hot elf husbands

[silvantransthranduiltrash]

What if Beren and Luthien were genderbent? How does this change things?

Oof,

Well i think it would depend on how much you think the elves put weight into gender roles. If they don’t put a lot of weight on it, i personally don’t think it would chage that much.

If you do think the elves would put a lot of weight in it, i think it can change so much as to say that they don’t even go out to steal a silmarillion.

I do think that if Luthien was a guy, he might have been let out of the girdle more/would have become a warrior, maybe. His parents might not have been as overprotective, especially Elwe. However, it can still be argued that male!Luthien is a soft boy™️ that isn’t a fan of fighting. Furthermore, Elwe can still be overprotective of Luthien by virtue of Luthien being his kid and not wanting to loose him.

Idk, if there would be a close relationship between Luthien and Galadriel, or if now it’s Luthien and Finrod that are best buds.

(Mind you, i’m thinking through all this as i’m writing it, so apologies if it’s not so coherent)

You know what? If Luthien and Finrod are friends, Luthien might be more involved with Nargothrond/might have visited there. Maybe he met C&C there as well. Food for thought.

Regardless, even with the gender changes, Elwe would still oppose marriage between Luthien and Beren, bc he doesn’t think anyone, let alone a mortal, is good enough for his son.

Beren, i think, regardless of gender would still be Beren, up until she meets Luthien.

How they would meet could either stay the same, or change a bit. I do think them meeting in a peacefull setting is important. You know what? Let’s keep it the same/similar. Beren sees Luthien dancing in the moonlight and promptly goes “holy shit he’s pretty”.

And luthien spies her and thinks “oh, she’s cute”.

I personally hc Beren as socially awkward, charismatic when s/he wants to be, but socially awkward when it comes to one on one converstations. Don’t get ‘em started on romance.

And maybe Luthien invites Beren to join him, just for fun (for some reason i have the scene from httyd where stoick and valka are dancing together in my head).

And they have fun, which kickstarts their affection for one another.

I think both of them would appreciate having a partner who’s strong in their own right, just because they’re scared of possibly loosing the other, so with Luthien being son of a maia, and Beren being one of the most wanted people on the planet, they also feel more comfortable trusting each other.

I think Beren would like the levity Luthien would bring, and also not be bothered by Luthien being half maia bc, fuck man, she’s seen so much weird shit. And Luthien likes Beren’s pragmatism, and also that Beren fell for him before she knew he was a prince.

Moving on-

Of course you have the whole drama with Elwe.

Elwe’s like “this bitch is not marrying my son” again, how elwe goes about it would be influenced by the emphasis he would place on gender roles. I think if he were more traditional, he would maybe say things like “she’s not pretty enought for him” “she won’t make a good wife” etc.

Tbf, in this scenerio Beren can still pull something like “well, what if i wore a silmaril around my neck, would i be pretty enough then?” Which can still lead to a quest for the silmaril.

Or elwe could have a whole different challenge for her to win Luthen.

But we’re gonna go on the assumtion that there is still a quest to steal a silmaril.

So Beren sets out with Luthien, bc i think elwe would have a significantly harder time keeping him in place, especially if Luthien is a warrior himself. And they go to Nargothrond for help from finrod, who’s indebted to Beren’s family and who is Luthien’s friend.

And then of course you’d still have drama with C&C.

Bc Beren and Luthien arrive together, i don’t think C&C would bother them individually as much. Also, no kidnapping of Luthien by Celegorm.

There would still be a stir, idk how the party would go, maybe there would be less members, and Beren and Luthien could convince Finrod to stay bc *motions to Luthien* they have a half maiar on the quest, they don’t necessarily need more man power, especially on a stealth mission.

Also, bc of Luthien’s open presence, there might not be a coupe. And maybe even grudging respect.

You know what? What if Celegorm or Curufin or both join them on the quest? I mean they’re going for the silmarils right? With the help of a half maia, surely they’ll do better.

So like the 4 + huan set out. And Finrod still stays on the throne. (Wow, history really is changing)

And maybe, just maybe, the 4 do manage to sneak past sauron. Or maybe they immediatly go option: nuclear and just destroy sauron on their way through.

Celegorm shoots at sauron: THIS IS FOR MY BROTHER YOU POS!!!

And they travel on.

And with Curufin there, when Luthien lulls Morgoth to sleep, with his tools they manage to snag all 3 jewels instead of just one.

And they run.

But instead of headin towards the girdle they go to one of their brother’s outposts. Let’s go with himring.

(Is this slowely turning into a fix it? Maybe.)

And well, since curufin and Celegorm technically have the silmarills in their porssession (and for cautious sake the 2 brothers are the ones holding the silmarils) the vow is lifted.

So all their brothers go “wtf”.

Yada yada yada

They make it to himring and are like “hey look what i got!”.

Cue maedhros having a small panic attack.

Bla bla bla bla bla.

Of course is Luthien excited to be amongst kinslayers? No. But, tbf, he’s also half maia and maia don’t exactly have the same taboo. Beren’s human, kinslaying in and of itself doesn’t bother her.

Tbh, i don’t know how Luthien would handle being around the feanorians, bc yeah they did kill his kin, but also... it’s complicated for him. And clearly finrod doesn’t seem to have too much of a problem with then if they were letting C&C stay with him.

I’d like to think that, now that the vow is lifted (almost called it a curse for a second there), maybe curufin fashions one into a beautiful necklace for Beren as a big fat fuck you to elwe and a thanks for helping them get free.

Idk, it depends on what you think the silmarils are, are they just shiny jewels or do they have a bit of feanor’s faer in them. For the sake of where i’m going, it’s the former.

N e way, beren and luthien get back to doriath with Beren wearing the silmaril necklace while staring down elwe defiantly. And Luthien’s like “i’m gonna marry this women”.

Bc Beren said that “if she were to wear a silmaril as a necklace, would she then be pretty enough?” As opposed to promising to hand elwe a silmaril, the silmaril stays with beren, or maybe she gives it back after having proven a point.

N e way, bc Elwe isn’t the one to have the silmaril in the end, i think both massacres are avoided, so doriath still stands proud for a lot longer.

Also, bc they didn’t die/have to come back to life, idk if Luthien should choose to follow his wife after she dies of old age. It’s be interesting if he didn’t bc that means that the “choice of the peredhel” maybe wouldn’t exist, and that opens up whole new possibilities with aragorn and arwen down the line, and even elros. (Ngl, a little fuzzy on the whole “choice of the peredhel” thing)

Or maybe he does give up his immortality and follows his wife, convincing mandos to let him.

Either way, the story would change significantly enough that the impacts is different (for one, instead of Arwen being as beautiful as luthien or smth, it’d be more that she’s as powerful as luthien? Idk.)

Or you know, maybe canon would still happen, just with genderbent Luthien and Beren.

I really do think that the amount of impact their gender has on their story has to do with how you interpret their characters.

...

You really made me write a lot, huh?

It was fun.

Did it come off across as a bit like a fix it? Yes. But, tbf, Luthien being arguable the most beautiful elleth in the world is such an important aspect of the story, that taking it away would change how people would treat him, and thus the whole storyline, drastically enough that i think a completely different outcome is possible.