#also daeron II and baelor breakspear and aegon III

[atopvisenyashill]

George Is A Coward For Never Doing Gay Incest

an incomplete list of gay incest he could have done, it was right fucking there come onnnn

Rhaenys/Visenya you are telling me lesbian icon Visenya who hates her husband and lives completely separately from him for decades but somehow managed to live with him while Rhaenys is alive wasn’t in love with Rhaenys? that the paternity of both aenys and maegor is questioned and we get nothing to delve into how that affected the relationship between the sisters? cowardly!

Viserys/Daemon, i’m gonna be honest EYE consider this canon and there’s nothing george can do about it, like daemon beats the messenger who told him viserys remarried bc he’s so mad and that’s NOT gay rage over how much he wants to be his brother’s wife so they can be aegon and visenya and conquer the world together, even while daemon flaunts his privileges as a man?? nah i see right through gyldayn’s heterosexuality.

Aegon II/Aemond, you're telling me Aemond calls himself protector of the realm while his brother is dying of his wounds but specifically doesn't call himself king, and Aegon throws Aemond a party after Aemond kinslays and helps kicks off the war and those two weren't fucking?? whack.

Baela/Rhaena, Baela has this amazing, bad ass, ultimately completely useless stand off that ends in the deaths of two dragons, eventually married to an uncle/cousin who cheats on her constantly, and is completely shut out of politics aka she gets Rhaenyra-ed, and meanwhile Rhaena gets two husbands that adore her, a dragon, and significant respect from the Lords, I am telling you there is some sort of psychosexual obsession here in how in order for Rhaena to rise (and HEAL), Baela must fall and suffer, and Baela "trying desperately to be Daemon's mini me" Targaryen wouldn't get obsessive over this.

Aegon III/Gaemon Palehair is possibly incest given we don’t know who Gaemon’s father is, also i know there’s an awkward age gap but see: my gay little hands and characters i like, also, there’s weird age gaps everywhere and aegon ii was old enough to have a bastard closer to aegon iii’s age if george had been less of a coward smh. so much here in the way gaemon’s crown is torn from his head along with his mothers and he’s forced to serve the monarchy, only to fall in love with the living embodiment of every painful memory gaemon has, of aegon resenting the crown on his own head bc if he’d been the fourth born son he could have never married and lived his life with gaemon, with his brothers, with his mother, but now they’re stuck in these roles that are going to devour them whole and he can see it coming but he can’t stop it!

Daena/Elaena, listen, two sisters with bastards who choose different sides of a war because daena has only ever found freedom with the traditional, racist fucks that want to crown her son so she throws her lot in with them because she will not be a prisoner ever again dammit and elaena was only ever freed when daeron allowed her an outlet for her immense intelligence and she’s in love with a dornish man who opens her eyes to the prejudices at court, and under all that are two girls who only ever found peace in the maidenvault through their small, stolen kisses and raising their bastards together, a little odd family forced together by the madness of their brother completely split apart by the madness of court LIKE??? HELLO?

Baelor Breakspear/Maekar, think of the POSSIBILITIES of how the monarchy is purposefully stepping away from incest only for two brothers so dissimilar to find an attraction between them they don’t understand, Maekar always jealous of all that Baelor is given while Baelor longs for Maekar’s relative freedom and they refuse to say what they really mean, how they really feel, and Baelor dies by Maekar’s hand IT IS GIVING ALRIGHT

Jon/Aegon VI, I will be pushing this literally until the day ados comes out and my whole “they gave show!dany aegon’s plot in the stormlands, the reach, and dorne which means jon/aegon is going to be full of homoeroticism and we will get a scene where Jon calls Aegon a child and Aegon throws a petulant fit in front of his unknown half baby brother” theory gets jossed. and if he doesn’t do it he’s a coward AND I STAND ON THAT.

[thephantomcasebook]

The ask you just answered about Jaehaera and that first edition the children were her own clears up a lot of things for me.

1.) With Baelor being super religious. If his mother family has ties with the Faith, it makes sense. Also as Baelor was the second son, he would have most likely fostered in Oldtown.

2.) Daeron being named after the Uncle who fought to get back her mother and grandmother. Makes sense 100%. Jaehaera would have told him stories about him the most. He would want to live up that name.

3.) Rhaena (Aegon’s III sister) was very kind to Jaehaera and her name her daughter after also makes sense. Rhaena became a Septa. Also Deanaera fostered mother was Baela...wouldn't she name her daughter after her in said.

4.) I really have no notes on Daena and Elaena. Maybe Elaena is a shorten version of Jaehaera's own mother name. Daena is her person lmao.

But the point is that their personalities and even some of their life choices fit with Jaehaera being their mother. Than the "hot" six year old🥴.

Agreed ...

Even the Blackfyre Rebellion makes more sense in the context of Aegon III and Jaehaera's line.

Daemon Waters (Blackfyre) is of purer Targaryen stock than Daeron II would be - for those Lords of whom that mattered. Daena's grandparents were Aegon II and Helaena/ Rhaenyra and Daemon. Aegon IV's grandparents were also Rhaenyra and Daemon. The only non-Targaryen in his blood would be Alicent and Aegon IV's Pentoshi mother.

Where as Daeron II is only half Targaryen and Baelor "Breakspear" and Maekar are only a quarter Targaryen - the heir to the throne doesn't even look Targaryen. And the only reason that Aegon IV named his son Daeron was to steal valor from Daeron "The Daring" for the name association to the commons.

The Blackfyre Rebellions are Green coded by the fact that many Lords that backed the Greens, backed Daemon Blackfyre because his claim was similar to his great-grandfather Aegon II. He looked Targaryen, he wielded Blackfyre, and he had all the symbols of legitimacy - including being the unified blood and Houses of both Greens and Blacks.

While Daeron II was named after Daeron and had the temperament of his namesake. While Baelor "Breakspear" had the actual personality of Daeron "The Daring" Targaryen ... and suffered the same ironic fate - a very good and honorable man that would've made a great king that would've united the realm but fell before he could sit the Iron Throne.

It was all there, it all made sense, and now it doesn't.

Just like how "The Dance of the Dragons" made sense and had a rhyme and reason that had a rhythm of action and consequence that escalated to a fever pitch. Now, after the latest changes, the war doesn't make any sense. Things are jumbled and happen out of order or inexplicably at the same time like the characters got Smartphones and were coordinating shit.

Sometimes when you tweak the gears too much, the clock stops running on time.

[tragedy-peanut-gallery]

How do you think Naerys's life would change if Daeron II was born a girl (and assume Daenerys would also remain a girl)? Would Naerys believe in her eldest daughter's rights as her father's heir as the years go on?

Honestly I’m not too sure- while Daenora (yes that’s the name I’m giving lady Daeron SUE ME) would’ve been considered heir presumptive especially if Aegon iii’s daughters were still passed over, there’s still the whole wrench in the plot of Aegon iv legitimizing all of his bastards, including Daemon. Essentially it creates the groundwork for a Dance 2.0 except less fun cause there isn’t even any dragons here. Worst part is that Aegon does have an actual case to dismiss his daughter’s status as heir seeing as she is a girl, whereas he didn’t have that power against a son!

For Naerys’ case, I think personally she wouldn’t want any of her children near that throne just because of the dangers it poses (especiallyyyy after the dance where almost their whole family was eradicated due to a girl being named heir), but politically she would kinda have to back Daenora’s claim, if not as the primary heir then at least as the mother to a legitimate heir (Baelor Breakspear)

Off topic but Jaehaerys really fucked over his own line because of his stupid sexist inheritance laws. Why are we still listening to that old man.

[tweedfrog]

Maester Aemon the dragons would like to know what tf they did besides fly people around and breathe fire on command

[sunontherhoyne]

Baelor Breakspear and Daeron II will both be safe for the same reason that Aegon III will not be - neither of them had daughters to screw over. Aegon III did, so that's going to be very bad.

I hate this I hate this so much why the heck does this make so much sense why do all of the targs treat their daughters like shit whyyyyyyyyyy

I will say though that I have wondered what would have happened had Daeron II and Myriah had a daughter at some point. I would like to believe that he wouldn't insist she marry her brother. But I also know that Jaehaerys and Shaera weren't the first to marry, they were just the ones that made a big deal about it and got on the throne. (I will say that this would make some interesting arguments between the two of them, because I sincerly doubt that Myriah would have been at all happy about this.)

[samwpmarleau]

rhaenys-martell-targaryen replied to your post: house targaryen is truly amazing. in 300 years...

so basically: Daeron II, Baelor Breakspear, Maekar, Aemon, Aegon V, Aegon VI, Jon Snow and????????????/

I'd add Duncan to the list—he loved Jenny, a commoner, so much that he gave up kingship for her. Poor Aegon III sounds like a good guy, though exceptionally traumatized. Then there’s several who seem like they’re decent people—Rhaegel, Valarr, etc.—but whose personal lives I’m not sure we know enough about to make an “official” ruling.

I also don’t really think Aegon V should be on the list tbh. If his rulership didn’t exist, then definitely, but otherwise no. He allowed Jaehaerys and Shaera to stay married, which caused an avalanche of destruction, then even worse, he allowed them to have Rhaella be married and impregnated by the brother she hated at age 13. He “washed his hands” of the situation. And he caused Summerhall. I feel like him being an incalculable DICK in the latter quarter of his life cancels out any good he might have done beforehand.

I also wouldn’t include Jon, not because he’s not on the whole a good person, but because I hate referring to him as a Targ. I don’t think Rhaegar being a sperm donor gets to supersede him being a Stark in every way that matters.

[queenhousetargaryen]

My top 10 favourite pre-asoiaf Targaryen men (in chronological order):

Aegon the Conqueror (the original Targ daddy)

Jaehaerys I

Baelon the Brave

Daemon the Rogue Prince

Aegon III

Viserys II

Aemon the Dragonknight

Baelor Breakspear

King Maekar

Aegon V

Honorable mentions go to Gaemon the Glorious, King Aenys, Aegon the Uncrowned, Daeron the Drunken and Prince Duncan. Also shout out to Bloodraven (he isn’t technically a Targaryen but deserves to be considered one imo)

ladies version here

[mariedemedicis]

🐲THE TARGARYEN TAG🐲

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1. Your favourite/least favourite Targaryen: a lot of contenders for either spot but I think for favorite I’m going to go with Rhaena, Queen in the West/East and for least favorite mm Rhaegar

2. Underrated Targaryen: Daeron II

3. Snog/Marry/Avoid Targaryens: Baelor/Egg/Maegor

4. A Targaryen who deserved better: AEREA, Naerys, Daella, Rhaella, Rhaenys (Elia and Rhaegar’s daughter), Aegon (Elia and Rhaegar’s son), Rhaenys the Queen who Never Was, Helaena, Jaehaera, Gael, Viserra, Alyssa, Aemma

5. OTP Targaryens: the incest still squicks me out but I guess Baelon and Alyssa, they had so little time together but seemed to really love each other; if I can include non-Targaryens here then Aemon x Jocelyn, Maekar x Dyanna and Egg x Betha

6. A Targaryen you’d like to go on holiday with: Alyssa

7. A Targaryen you’d want to be best friends with: Rhaenys (daughter of Elia and Rhaegar) or Baela

8. A Targaryen who just needs a hug: Aerea

9. Problematic Fave: Visenya or Rhaenyra, oh wait, no Saera’s my true problematic fave

10. A Targaryen you’d go on a dragon ride with: Rhaena, Queen in the West/East, Alyssa, or Rhaenys the Queen Who Never Was

11. Favourite Targaryen bastard? Shiera Seastar but only because we don’t know anything about Mya or Gwenys (tell me more, grrm!) and I also want more on the Otherys kids, hopefully some backstory stuff might come up in Arya’s TWoW chapters

12. A Targaryen you’d want as a lover: Baelor Breakspear

13. Which Targaryen dragon is your favourite? Dreamfyre

14. Bloodraven: fan or ban? Ban

15. Viserys (son of Aerys II): evil twit or mentally scarred victim? I don’t think Viserys was evil but that being said, he wasn’t just a victim.

16. Favourite non-Targaryen spouse/consort? Mariah Martell

17. Team Lilac Eyes or Team Indigo Eyes? lilac

18. Favourite quote by a Targaryen: "A ruler needs a good head and a true heart, a cock is not essential." - Alysanne Targaryen

19. Most badass Targaryen moment: Dany climbing onto Drogo’s funeral pyre, Dany whipping Drogon and mounting him in the fighting pits

20. Blackfyres: Yay or Nay? The Blackfyre ladies (only two of which have names, grrm come on!) are a yay, the men are a hard nay.

21. Most touching Targaryen moment: probably Viserys and Aegon’s reunion, yeah

22. Which Targaryen would give the best life advice? Elaena probably, she’s had a good long interesting life and seen multiple kings’ reigns

23. Your favourite Aegon? Egg, I think, but poor Aegon III is close

24. Which Targaryen was the most badass? for the ladies, Visenya, for the men, Baelor

25. Most heartbreaking Targaryen moment: Maybe Joffrey’s death trying to save the dragons in the dragonpit after Jace and Luke had already died; Aerea’s death

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I tag whoever wants to participate!

[molicioushat]

🐲THE TARGARYEN TAG🐲

I thought it would be good fun to come up with a tag for all the Targaryen lovers out there so here it is!

This tag is open to all, so feel free to participate regardless of allegiance!

I was tagged by: @naomimakesart

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1. Your favourite/least favourite Targaryen:

This was super hard to narrow down to even a top ten.

Top Ten Favorite: Visenya, Alyssa, Baelon the Brave, Baela, Elaena, Rhaenys the Queen Who Never Was, Baelor Breakspear, Maekar, Daeron the Drunkard, and Good Queen Alysanne.

Least Favorite: Aegon II

2. Underrated Targaryen:

Probably Septa Maegelle. She's smart and she tends to the sick and that's on top of being able to get her parents to reconcile. She's also brave since I don't think many people would willingly tend to people with greyscale. It's such a shame we only see so much of her.

3. Snog/Marry/Avoid Targaryens:

Snog Daemon the Rogue Prince

Marry Queen Rhaella

Avoid Aegon IV

4. A Targaryen who deserved better:

Hard choice, there are so many. But I would choose Princess Alyssa Targaryen because of the way she was written to get her off the stage so to speak. GRRM could have killed her off in multiple different ways (riding accident, a fall, a hunting accident, a sparring accident, an illness, appendicitis, exit pursued by bear, etc) but no she dies by childbirth. Yet another among the disproportionately many other women who died that way.

5. OTP Targaryens:

OTP - Alyssa x Baelon, Daeron x Jeremy, Daeron II x Mariah, Alysanne x Valyrian Scrolls, Aegon III x therapy, Aerea x Life

OT3 - Visenya x Aegon x Rhaenys, and Rhaena x Elinor x Jeyne (that was my secret favorite before Sons of the Dragon came out but then GRRM kinda fulfilled it by a 3rd in Fire and Blood. I'm still disappointed that it doesn't seem like Elinor or Rhaena had any communication after they survived Maegor. *sighing forever*)

6. A Targaryen you’d like to go on holiday with:

I bet Rhaenys and Corlys went on a bunch of fun trips to all sorts of places. Would be fun to go with them to Braavos or one of the other Free Cities.

7. A Targaryen you’d want to be best friends with:

Alyssa. She's described as being all her mother is and more and since Alysanne is a pretty amazing and smart person then it stands to reason Alyssa is as well. She's probably a blast to hang out with if you have similar interests.

 8. A Targaryen who just needs a hug: 

I would hug Aegon III if he would let me. Alternatively Maekar or Daeron the Dreamer.

9. Problematic Fave:

Saera Targaryen. She's a terrible person but I'm fascinated by her. I'm currently writing a meta piece on her rn.

10. A Targaryen you’d go on a dragon ride with:

Queen Rhaena. She's traveled all over and she's flown with people before. I think if we found something in common she would be a good travel buddy.

11. Favourite Targaryen bastard?

Bloodraven, I mean have you seen him in the Mystery Knight? He's a ... riot.

Non Great Bastards would probably be Gaemon Palehair because he's totally Aegon II's but he had poor Essie tortured till she would say what they wanted her to say. Because honestly he already had 2 bastards born around the same time the twins were and they were called his first bastards, he very likely had more.

12. A Targaryen you’d want as a lover:

Shiera Seastar duh. Less trouble than being one of Prince Daemon's. Mysaria would probably have me killed. Oh sure people fight over Shiera but if she's fine with it then I'm down. Plus, who would fight a person with boobs for her? How embarrassing would it be for them to lose to me?

13. Which Targaryen dragon is your favourite? 

Vhagar followed by Moondancer.

14. Bloodraven: fan or ban?

Part of the fan club.

...wait there are people who don't like Bloodraven? Is that a thing? ???

15. Viserys (son of Aerys II): evil twit or mentally scarred victim?

Uh... neither? He's not evil. Abusive yes, evil no. He might have been evil if he was in a position of power but only because of paranoia. I'm not sure he gets enjoyment out of hurting others like his father, Joffrey, Ramsay, Euron, or Aerion do. He hurts Dany because he gets angry and he has power over her.

And he's not a victim. He's a pawn in Varys and Illyrio's game. And while he does have mental issues, but I don't know if that's because he was mentally scarred. I think he's predisposed to paranoia. The situation he's lived in since the war is not helpful and it definitely was a contributing factor when Dany and him were on the streets. But I think it would have happened eventually regardless.

16. Favourite non-Targaryen spouse/consort? 

Favorite Consort: Queen Alyssa Velaryon

Favorite Spouse: Ser Michael Manwoody

17. Team Lilac Eyes or Team Indigo Eyes? 

Indigo. Everytime I think of Lilac I think of Viserys. I can't help picturing him everytime I read it.

18. Favourite quote by a Targaryen: 

It's a tie.

"Your guards are slow and lazy." - Visenya the most badass. No fucking around, straight to the point.

And

"His Grace my brother can command me. You cannot." - Baela also a certified bad ass.

Just realized these both have face slashing before these quotes. I guess it's a theme. lol

19. Most badass Targaryen moment:

When Daemon jumps from his dragon to stab Aemond with Dark Sister. Metal af.

20. Blackfyres: Yay or Nay?

NAY!

Daemon might have been an upstanding guy, but to steal a quote from Ser Eustace Osgrey, "You can know a man by his friend," and Daemon's friends were terrible people.

21. Most touching Targaryen moment:

Bolded for emphasis:

[“We are glad to have you safe home, my brother.”

Mushroom says that Oakenfist was laughing as he climbed back to his feet. “Sire,” he replied, “you have honored me with your sister’s hand, and I am proud to be your brother by marriage. Yet I can never be your brother by blood. But there is one who is.” Then with a flamboyant gesture, Lord Alyn summoned forth the treasure he had brought from Lys. ... The boy threw back his cowl. As the sunlight glittered on the silver-gold hair beneath, King Aegon III began to weep, throwing himself upon this boy in a fierce embrace. Oakenfist’s “treasure” was Viserys Targaryen, the king’s lost brother.]

This scene was so touching it made me cry. First, Aegon calls Alyn his brother which is very sweet. He could have called him his goodbrother, but he didn't. And then Alyn's whole bit how he's proud to be a part of Aegon's family but acknowledging that he can't replace Viserys. And then Aegon finally being reunited with Viserys after so long and how he doesn't have to feel guilty anymore because Viserys can forgive him. Just feels all around.

22. Which Targaryen would give the best life advice?

Probably Baelor Breakspear. He's down to earth and smart.

23. Your favourite Aegon?

Aegon V for now. May change depending on what leads up to the tragedy at Summerhall. Aegon III is a close second.

24. Which Targaryen was the most badass?

Visenya, I mean fuck but she's so boss. She fought to till she was like 74. She was probably one of the best warriors of her time during her prime. Especially since she was key to protecting Aegon during that attempt on his life.

25. Most heartbreaking Targaryen moment:

I'm just going to quote the whole section:

[... of Lady Jocelyn’s empty bed and bitter tears, and the way Princess Rhaenys wept to know that her father would never hold the child she was carrying? Far easier to speak of Prince Baelon’s wroth, and how he came down upon Tarth on Vhagar, howling for vengeance.

...

But it is said that when he saw his mother again, he fell into her arms and wept. “I slew a thousand of them,” he said, “but it will not bring him back.” And the queen stroked his hair and said, “I know, I know.”]

It's just so heartbreaking. Yes it's sad for Alysanne and Jaehaerys to lose their son, because it's always terrible when a parent has to bury a child before them.

But for Baelon, Jocelyn, and Rhaenys, they should have had so many more years with him. Baelon and Jocelyn should have grown old with Aemon! Rhaenys had her father taken from her too soon. Her children will never get to know their grandfather. Jocelyn should have had Aemon by her side to spoil their grandchildren!

And Baelon! No one knows a person as long as a sibling does. Not every siblings are friends but Baelon and Aemon were close to each other, probably each other's best friends. Baelon's grief is one that strikes me right in heart. His pain is so raw. And as an older sibling who is very close to her brother it's also one of my biggest fears. This wasn't the only time Fire and Blood made me cry, but it was the one that really stuck with me. That image of Baelon crying into Alysanne's arms as she says "I know, I know."

Oh, oh, oh...

Please excuse me while I go cry forever after that downer.

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Anyone of my followers who sees this and wants to do it, please feel free to do so!! I'm not going to tag anyone directly in case you don't want to do it.

[aegor-bamfsteel]

If Naerys targaryen had died from childbirth? do you think Aegon Iv would have married Barba Bracken? How do you think it would affected Aegor?

Thank you for your very interesting questions, friend anon! The first thing I’d like to do is apologize for not getting to answer your ask sooner, but I was (rather unsuccessfully) settling into a new university semester and I felt like I didn’t have enough time to do it justice. These are two questions that I’ve thought about for awhile.

Question 1: If Queen Naerys had died in childbirth, would Aegon IV have married Barba Bracken?

Aegon IV had only just been crowned king when Naerys and Barba gave birth in 172AC. If one lends credence to the theory that he did in fact poison his father Viserys II to get the throne faster, then he was willing to do anything to gain and keep his kingship. Whether you agree with this speculation or not (I’m half/half myself), Aegon IV’s later behavior indicates he loved being king because he felt it gained him access to pretty much whatever (or whoever) he wanted. However, even he understood there were a few lines he could not cross; he did not, for instance, ever openly take a woman of a Great House to be his mistress even when he was king. His relationship with Daena and possibly with Elaena were mere rumors for years, and the former probably wouldn’t have been acknowledged had Aegon not wanted Daemon. To “defile” a daughter of a powerful House would be to incur the wrath of her family, and a princess also had the same sacred status. He was also rumored to have encouraged Ser Morgil to claim that Daeron was the son of Aemon the Dragonknight, but he never went so far as to openly disown Daeron, which would’ve undermined his hold on power. Therefore, Aegon IV loved being king too much to ever cause a scandal that would anger powerful people.

The question then would be whether or not a marriage to Barba Bracken would have been a severe scandal after Queen Naerys’ death.

A Bracken in general is no suitable match for a king. The designated marriage partners for the heir presumptive to the Iron Throne were either Targaryens or Velaryons themselves (Aenys: Alyssa V Aegon the Younger: Rhaena T, Prince Aemon: half-V Jocelyn, Viserys I: half-T Aemma, Rhaenyra: Laenor V and Daemon T, Jacerys: Baela T, Aegon III: Jaehaera T and Daenaera V, Aelor: Aelora T, Aerys II: Rhaella T), members of a Great House (Prince Aemon: Jocelyn Baratheon, Viserys I: Aemma Arryn, Duncan the Small: Lyonel Baratheon’s daughter), or for political reasons that met the current needs of the regime (Baelor Breakspear married Jena Dondarrion to secure Stormlander support, Valarr and Daeron the Drunkard wed Kiera of Tyrosh to curb Blackfyre support in Essos).

Barba fits none of these criteria. She has no Valyrian blood, was not a member of a Great House, and would offer Aegon IV nothing politically (for example, wedding a Reach or Stormlander lady would help build a long lasting anti-Dornish faction to restart Daeron I’s war. The Brackens were a Riverlander family who attempted to curry favor with the Dornish appeaser, Baelor the Blessed.) There were other queen consorts or mothers of kings who did not meet these criteria either, but their husbands were not expected to become kings, much less were kings at the time. For instance, Betha Blackwood was Aegon V’s queen, but as he was the fourth son of a fourth son, he was allowed to marry for love; even if Aegon IV did love Barba like he said, he never would’ve been able to wed her without scandal, and he certainly loved power more.

 Barba in specific would cause a scandal because of her “bad” reputation as a “ruined woman.” Yes, she was a teenaged girl whose only lover had been the king himself, but having a confirmed extramarital affair while Naerys was still alive (meaning that they had no intention to marry) would have condemned her as a potential traitor in the eyes of the misogynist Westerosi. If she had affairs while still a maiden, what’s to keep her from having them while queen? Any children that she had both before and after her hypothetical marriage would have their paternity called into question. The Westerosi take their adulterous queens very seriously, even when there’s no absolute proof of the adultery.

An Aegon IV/Barba marriage would bear the most similarity to Viserys I wedding Alicent Hightower; it’s a Targaryen king marrying a non-Targaryen, non-Great House woman, the daughter of his Hand, soon after his Targaryen queen died in childbirth with a stillborn son. The Alicent-Viserys I marriage was incredibly scandalous to the king’s Small Council, who advised him against it in favor of a match with the more “suitable" Laena Velaryon, since it had happened only a year after Queen Aemma’s death. Alicent was linked sexually to Daemon the Rogue Prince and Viserys I before her marriage, but these rumors were never proven, so she was a maid at least on paper. The Hightowers are also an incredibly powerful family in the Reach, ruling over one of the largest cities in the Seven Kingdoms, rather than a relatively minor holdfast ravaged by invasions. And of course, the king lacked a male heir. So while their marriage was scandalous, it wasn’t as scandalous as one between Barba and Aegon IV would be.

Based on the cases of other kings’ marriage, I believe that Aegon IV would not have married Barba for fear of creating a scandal that would undermine his power. The marriage would have offered him nothing politically, and instead would have angered his allied lords for choosing a “promiscuous,” relatively unimportant lady rather than one of their own daughters who had relatives who had fought in Daeron’s Dornish war. To say nothing at what it would do to his enemies, as Da3ron’s faction absolutely would see this as an attempt to undermine their prince’s ascension.

Question 2: How do you think it would have affected Aegor?

Suppose that Aegon IV’s need for a legitimate son other than Daeron was so great that he was willing to ignore the uproar it would cause amongst his allies and marry Barba. Would their illegitimate child become legitimate now that they were married?

According to tWoI&F co-writer Elio Garcia, a story about legitimizing natural children written by GRRM was cut: Apparently a young Lord Hightower took up with his widowed stepmother. They declared their intention to marry, but the High Septon refused to wed them. They continued to live as man and wife and have several children until the High Septon finally relented and agreed to wed them, thus retroactively legitimizing their offspring without them having to apply to the king. So it is semi-canon (although considering how many continuity errors have been recently introduced into the series, they may decide to go back on this one too -_-) that at least in some instances, the illegitimate children of a union will become legitimate if their parents married. It seems to depend on the High Septon’s willingness to marry them, which Aegon IV could easily buy/threaten/kill off the Septon and replace him with a more tractable one. Thus I believe that had Aegon and Barba wed, Aegor would have been legitimized.

Aegor Rivers becoming Prince Aegor Targaryen, second in line for the Iron Throne, would have made him an almost completely different character. He doesn’t have any cause to hate the Targaryens or Blackwoods, as Aegon IV never sent Barba away  in favor of Melissa on Daeron and Aemon’s advice. Although I don’t think Aegon IV would have been faithful to Barba, I doubt he would’ve taken up with Melissa, so Bloodraven wouldn’t even have been born; furthermore, with their daughter already queen, Lord Bracken would not have pushed Bethany into Aegon IV’s bed, so she would stil be alive (yay!) As a legitimate prince, even if Aegor was absolutely rotten, Daeron would have been obliged to provide for him in terms of land, a court position, or even a diplomatic assignment at last resort. I don’t doubt, though, that Aegor still would have been resentful of those who slandered his mother for being a “scheming whore;” in addition, considering that Barba “replaced” Naerys very quickly as queen, the relationship between Aegor and Daeron would have still been cold and distant at best. Hilariously, Daemon would have spent his life as Daemon Waters, the natural son of Daena Targaryen, having never been acknowledged or legitimized on account of Prince Aegor’s presence; perhaps instead of turning to Bloodraven to undermine Daemon like in OTL, Daeron may instead have turned to his cousin Daemon to undermine Aegor’s potential influence. So Aegor would have been much less resentful, granted some land or important position, wouldn’t’ve had to deal with his rival Brynden, but still would bear grudges to those who mistreated Barba. Whether that was enough to make him give credence to the rumors that Daeron was Aemon’s son and join with the rebels depends on whether he agreed with them with regards to the Dornish treaty as well as Daeron’s mismanagement of the kingdom and dubious paternity. That all depends on how he saw the Reach and Stormlords during his childhood in King’s Landing, many of whom might have been the same lords who mocked his mother.

I hope this answers your questions, anon. It was a really fun exercise!

[samwpmarleau]

tyrion is not a targ

Non-Targs with white- or pale-blond hair:

Tommen Baratheon

Marei (who incidentally is likely Tywin’s bastard daughter)

Justin Massey

Cassella Vaith

Edric Dayne

Leo Tyrell

Kem of the Second Sons

Targ children who have atypical Targ features:

Orys Baratheon (black hair, black eyes)

Alysanne (blue eyes)

Rhaenys, the Queen Who Never Was (black hair)

Jacaerys, Lucerys, and Joffrey "Velaryon" (brown hair, brown eyes)

Elaena (streak of gold)

Bittersteel (black hair)

Baelor Breakspear (dark hair, dark eyes)

Valarr (brown hair, blue eyes)

Daeron, Maekar’s son (brown hair, probably brown eyes)

Duncan (probably black hair (I say “probably” because so far as I’m aware, the only mention of that is a world book illustration, which shouldn’t necessarily be taken as canon), unknown eye color)

Steffon Baratheon (black hair, probably blue eyes)

Rhaenys, Rhaegar’s daughter (one or both of dark hair and dark eyes (GRRM said she looked “more like” a Martell, implying she had some Targaryen feature somewhere)

Jon Snow (brown hair, gray eyes)

Madness from Targ-Targ unions:

Maegor

Helaena (trauma-induced)

Aegon III (trauma-induced)

Baelor I

Maelys I Blackfyre (?)

Aerys II

Viserys

Madness from Targ-non-Targ unions

Rhaegel (though two of his descriptors were “gentle” and “sweet,” and he seemingly had perfectly normal relations with his wife and three children, so “mad” is a matter of perspective)

Aerion

Infant deaths/birth problems from Targ-Targ unions:

Jaehaerys I/Alysanne (x4)

Daemon/Rhaenyra

Aegon IV/Naerys (x4)

Aerys II/Rhaella (x8)

Infant deaths/birth problems from Targ-non-Targ unions (excluding those induced by black magic):

Viserys I/Aemma Arryn (x2) (note Aemma was half-Targ herself, impregnated when she was barely a teenager, and Viserys was the result of an incestuous union)

Daemon/Mysaria of Lys (note Daemon was the result of incest, and as a Lyseni, Mysaria was of Valyrian descent)

Daemon/Laena Velaryon (note Daemon was the result of incest, and Laena was half-Velaryon and half-Targ)

Valarr/Kiera of Tyrosh (x2) (likely more a result of the stress of the storm/spring sickness than any genetic problems)

And if we exclude Valyrian bloodlines, that leaves Valarr and Kiera as the only Targ-non-Targ union to have any reported problems. Not to mention fully outsourced unions are almost completely problem-free, and quite fruitful:

Daeron II/Mariah Martell: 4 children

Daemon Blackfyre/Rohanne of Tyrosh: 9+ children

Maekar I/Dyanna Dayne: 6 children

Aegon V/Betha Blackwood: 5 children

Aegon IV’s innumerable unknown bastards

I should also add that Tywin and Joanna were first cousins, Joanna is only one of countless women in this series who were perfectly healthy yet died in childbirth, there are more than 13 other characters who are dwarfs, and considering there is no known history of achondroplasia in the Lannisters (or the Targaryens, for that matter), Tyrion’s condition is nothing more than a sporadic mutation.

But y’know, you do you and keep thinking that Tyrion’s appearance and Joanna’s death are the result of him being secretly a Targaryen despite all evidence (AND THE ENTIRE FUCKING NARRATIVE) indicating otherwise.