#allegory you cant do this to us

[kavennnn]

haha guys dont worry, allegory for hatred only made dazai lose his eye on the side that beast dazai wouldve had his bandage as a joke, dont worry guys they were just being silly

[misspickman]

transfem kon proposal could have been good if was good

[girlbob-boypants]

If all we get from Davrin is Griffon Dad ft Grey Warden apologia and a sprinking of "I'm not like other elves" ...

[thehardkandy]

i think my biggest problem with scifi media that posits the question like "if it wasnt a natural birth human but it is indistinguishable from a human is it really human" is that i im like who cares!!!

every movie that opens up like "hello we have perfected AI,they are fully sentient. is it ok to enslave them?" like girl you are acting as if this is thought provoking but it is not. i think if people want to be "ready" for the future i think more of these plots should be replaced with idk people respecting the dignity of things they cant understand

things that in no way shape or form are recognizable as our idea of sentience, intelligence, autonomy. like yeah this is big and complicated and, practically speaking, likely wont be relevant any near life time (if ever). but i wish more stories would put their pussy into it

this is incredibly incoherent this is just a thing ive been annoyed by since i saw bladerunner 2049 and felt like it was at least 20 years behind what it could have done

[prideprejudce]

Also kind of related to the last alicent ask-- how objectively funny is it that the targaryens pulled alicent kicking and screaming into their weird blood purity incest tangle. For them, having uncle fathers and brother husbands and just generally blurring all the lines between family and romantic interest is sooooo normal. Yes its done massive damage to their psyches as we've seen with daemon in particular- but its passé to them at this point. For Alicent its breaking her BRAIN.

Like, Alicent who's deeply religious in a very westerosi faith and has classic nuclear family adjacent issues in contrast- overbearingly strict father, dead pedestalized mother to emulate, estranged sibling- is just SHOVED into the targaryen familial polycule and told to figure it out.

She keeps trying to bind herself to westerosi gender roles for comfort and safety, but bc of the targs she's now married an father/uncle figure, the girl who was supposed to be her sister growing up is now her daughter AND shes in love with her, her children are basically her siblings, and ALSO she's two of their mother in law(s?). Throw in the desperate parentification of aemond bc its not like viserys is helping her raise these kids-and its fucking her up!!! how is she supposed to have any sense of self when every role she would define herself by in a patriarchal westerosi culture has been fractured into twisted branches!!

It spiders into her other rationships too!! Her father otto has been treating her like both a daughter AND a pseudo wife, criston her lover keeps trying to assert himself over her choices in a very fatherly condescending way, and her brother gwayne is out in oldtown fathering her third son.

I sent an ask a while ago about how the tragedy of the alicent/rhaenyra/aegon triangle is that its an allegory for how targs just cant acclimate to westeros at all and end up breaking their dynasty AND the country by trying to force their culture to fit anyways, and i think you were so right in ur response that its not just rhaenyra/aegon/alicent who are the allegory but its ALL the targs in relation to alicent thats the allegory- they just cannot work with Alicent/westeros while she/its trapped in the current westerosi culture.

its hilarious bc it really is like having ONE catholic nun in an insane echo chamber hedonism cult and then being like 'why are you going insane bc of the incest and sex we're so over it it hasn't effected us whatsoever maybe if you try the kool aid you'll chill out' while she's desperately pretending none of this is happening and she's Not Involved.

this is a great point, and if you also go back to her as a child saying "you targaryens do have very queer customs" with noticeable disgust on face, and flash forward a decade later where she's marrying two of her children together in typical targaryen incest practices. I wish they had explored this more in the show and looked into how she feels about this currently, but I can't imagine she feels too great about it, and it's probably the reason why she went ULTRA religious with a five pound star medallion almost hanging from her neck. she wants at least some repentance for playing along in targaryen incest rituals, which goes against everything she was raised to believe

and like you mentioned, if you look close enough, almost EVERY relationship that alicent has is majorly twisted by either targaryen customs or her own stunted growth from being a child bride. she's now a grown woman who still has the mind of a 15 year old and is trying to navigate a civil war that she helped ignite in her rage and jealousy over her own private hell for last decade. she also swings from a protective parent role to having an almost eldest sibling like relationship with her kids who desperately crave more motherly affection from her that she is just not able to give (because she cant completely seal off her deep down resentment of them)

and to top it off, the purest relationship in her life (rhaenyra) with genuine love was also twisted into a familial one through an arranged marriage. if you also headcanon her possible romantic feelings for rhaenyra, you can times three that trauma on your score card as well

alicent literally was forced into the targaryen world of the snake eating its own tail (reduced to a bargaining chip for otto) with decades of inbreeding and family infighting for power and control and was told to play nice with them. no wonder she's out in the woods wandering around and dissociating lmao

[jane-john-doe-tournament]

Jane Doe (Ride the Cyclone) Propaganda:

Great singing, also she’s literally wearing a doll‘s head bc she lost hers

do they have their soul or is it rotting somewhere with their head?

BALLAD OF JANE DOE IS SO SAD AND SHE IS GREAT AND I ONLY WATCH RTC ONCE BUT SHES NY FAVE OK

cool asf

She forgets her name after her death and has no story told in the production

She's so sweet and deserves the world. Her song (The Ballad of Jane Doe) is great.

the song goes so hard just listen to her song guys please

she literally died and her head was cut off so nobody could tell who she was PLEASE let her take one (1) W

BECAUSE SHE IS AMAZING. First she already won the tournament in the musical to regain life, as she won them over with her sad wet cat energy because she did not have a head and feared that she lost her soul. Second, she died on a roller coaster and lost her head, but stole her doll's head and thats very gender. Third, throughout the musical she is used as a vessel for religious allegory, she is an angel, she is jesus, she is a demon, she is forsaken but she is purity itself. Fourthly, she is is given the identity of Savannah with the greenest eyes after the other characters who died with her hold her a birthday party, and I think thats sweet because its probably some kind of meaning I cant see but auughfhfhh shes so cool

i mean her name isn't TECHNICALLY jane doe but we refer to her as such. she's so silly!! autism powers! i don't have a lot of propaganda tbh. i would've just been surprised had she NOT been submitted

She lost her head literally when the rollercoaster derailed. She wasn't able to be identified apart from the school uniform she was wearing.

Her name is forgotten, and so is everything about her. So she’s called Jane Doe. She’s very sweet and very creepy, but she doesn’t mean it

and im asking WHYYYYY LORRRRRDDD

I LOVE HER! she died in a roller coaster accident and was decapitated, her body not being found. in the show, her head is actually just her doll’s head. the coroners couldn’t identify her, so she was dubbed a jane doe. in the game to be alive again, she ends up being voted, her name being revealed to be penny lamb. anyways she’s a little creepy and also quite silly and she does her funny little waddle like a porcelain doll (or corpse).

She deserves it! She lost her head she shouldn't lose this too.

Not convinced you didn’t start this tournament just for her tbh

They have a great song and a true air of mystery to them. They also have arguably the best song in the musical, The Ballad of Jane Doe! I would definitely recommend listening to it >:)

—She LOST her HEAD and had it replaced with a PORCELAIN DOLL —In all seriousness her story is really poignant. No one could identify her body so she arrives in the afterlife not knowing her identity and she spends the show vacillating between depressed and angry at her situation, leading to… —“The Ballad of Jane Doe”, specifically Emily Rohm’s version, might be the most haunting solo in musical theatre history.

John Doe (Malevolent) Propaganda:

Spooky gay eldritch disaster (am I doing this right?)

Could have chosen any name for himself and picked John because a kind person called him that :)

fractured piece of an eldritch god that shares a body with a private eye after being fractured. chooses the name John Doe after said private eye goes into a coma

Because he’s an eldritch god who wants to feel human and who overcame a lot of obstacles and dangers!!! He sincerely cares about the main character!!! And he chose a name himself! Isn’t he cute??? He lost his body, he almost lost his memory, he fought for his right to exist, he loves animals, he loves his friend Arthur and I love him!

Being an ass, friendship, spooky supernatural stuff, he’s got it all

My man heard the name John Doe, realized he didn’t actually have a name, and just. Took it for himself.

I LOVE HIM. MY SON. HE’S TRYING TO CHANGE AND BE BETTER AND :(((( He’s a fragment of the soul of the King in Yellow (god of trickery and suffering iirc??) that gets trapped in a book in our realm while the rest of the King stayed in his own separate realm. When a human named Arthur Lester opens the book they get linked and John gains control of Arthur’s eyes & kills his partner (oops!). They proceed to go on a quest to find a way of separating them because neither likes the situation, and at first John (or The Entity, which is what he’s called at first) just wants to trick and use Arthur, and control his entire body (through the first season he also gets a hand & a foot) even though he doesn’t remember being The King In Yellow at the time, but Arthur makes him change and become more human. His turning point is when Arthur is shot and falls into a coma for a month. They get treated at a hospital and while John waits for Arthur to wake up so they can carry on, the body itself still gets taken care of. The time John spends alone, contemplating on humanity & everything he’s seeing and learning from Arthur, as well as the way a certain nurse speaks to him every day (specifically, she greets him good morning and good night, despite the body being unresponsive, John still hears because he is an entity linked to the body) and calls him John (they didn’t have ID on when they were found so they were classified as John Doe), changes his outlook and plans for good, and he asks Arthur to call him John; from this point on he admits he cares for Arthur, looks for his wellbeing too, and in general attempts to be a better person and to live for himself. The rest of the podcast (ongoing!!) explores Arthur & John’s relationship, struggle to survive, adventures in the eldritch… All while tackling each of their issues with themselves and each other and watching them both grow. John in specific learns to be the person he wants to be, how sometimes you’ll take a step forward and two backwards; he can be cruel and manipulative sometimes but he still tries. Personally I love his journey, it’s very realistic and you can see he is trying his best, and how he wants to be better than he was as the King In Yellow, and how much Arthur has changed him and how much he cares about him because of that; and how he’s slowly growing into being his own person :) if it ends badly ill cry so hard but!!! he’s John Doe because that’s the name he was being addressed as, and he’s made it his, and being John means he’s no longer the King and that he wants to be different, and John can fail or make mistakes but it’s part of who he is now, and that’s what matters. I am So Normal About Him

JOHN DOE (Malevolent) SWEEP

OH MY GOD JOHN DOE MY BELOVED 💛💛 (watch me just not clarify that would be so funny ahah) John doe (Malevolent) 💛💛💛 my silly He's so funny he makes Arthur bump his head into a dock because he didn't say duck in time and then laughs at him 💛💛

[conceptofjoy]

In your opinion, could transmasc Rose exsist in a way that would make sense?

I'm asking because I saw a fanart depicting Dirk and Rose as transfem and transmasc respectably, and while I myself like both the transmasc and fem readings of Dirk, I've never seen a transmasc reading of Rose

Hope you have a good day :)

i dont see it rlly. there isnt any allegories i can think of that stick out. her relationship with identity have interesting interactions with the figures of authority in her life who either are seemingly passive aggressive towards her self or are manipulating her using the fragile self esteem she has.

i think her mother being a trans woman is what rlly makes me feel like she’s a gnc tfem (triptychgardener has rlly good posts abt this.. omg i cant find the other post but its out there). transitioning at an early age, their interests happening to line up so she feels over shadowed by her larger than life mom, feeling mocked for existing as a lesser version of her, that kinda thing. scratch takes advantage of that feeling of not being able to catch up with her mom (her words verbatim i think), he praises her and makes her feel powerful.

id feel different if momlonde like say, pushed her to do things she didnt want to do or there was an emphasis on feeling infantalized rather than mocked. or like if scratch tried to make her prove herself to him to gain that “partnership” or even didnt look twice at her at all. thats the difference i think.

…

ok im describing a hypothetical rose whos raised by bro.

[dramaqueer-commie]

someone on the internet said that Pinocchio was a great trans allegory and i havent stopped thinking of it

neverafter spoilers below cut:

everything he wants is to be a real boy. so everyone tells him "you can be, but only if youre perfect, and if you do so much as tell a white lie we will publicly shame you for it and use that as an argument as to why you should never get to be a real boy" and everyone else goes "look at this freak, lets put him in a circus"

so he tries his best, but he keeps meeting "real boys" and they arent perfect at all. and hes doomed anyways bc he cant be perfect, so he hangs out with other boys, and do what they do. guess who gets a scolding from the fairy and who doesn't.

and then, now we're entering neverafter territory, he has to give up his chance to be a real boy. but why did he want to be one in the first place? what is it he doesn't like about being a puppet? well a puppet has strings, and ppl will always use them to try to control him. he cant ever lie (like everyone else can) or everyone will know, and people think hes a weirdo and different.

well, he took hold of his own strings. he doesn't need anyone else to power him, he has himself. he snapped off his nose, so now he can lie, he can be just as flawed and impulsive and *human* as everyone else. and he's different, yeah, but that has its strength, and as Lou said; its about being alive, and in how alive Pinocchio is, he is a real boy, puppet or not

Traditional Pinocchio ends with him reaching up to others standards by being perfect and playing by their rules, thats when hes acceptable. when hes not a puppet, but a human boy.

Neverafter really did everything better than the original stories. even the trans allegory in Pinocchio. hes trans, sorry, i mean a puppet, and a real boy. he doesn't have to give up either and he can be whoever the fuck he wants.

[steven-has-exploded]

okay ive looked over the last few chapters and the various amenogozen deaths after about a day of crisis and confusion, and ive noticed a couple things about junichirous death in specific that i think are more than worth noting

firstly, amenogozen seems to show some kind of pity for kunikida and his state of shock before it kills him, and even as its stabbing its sword into his stomach. it lets him attempt to pull it out with no resistance, albeit acting as if it makes no sense by saying it cant truly harm him- though this could potentially be seen as an attempt to "console" him

junichirou, on the other hand? nothing. amenogozen stabs the illusion he created of himself with no hesitation, and no words to spare. when it locates the real junichirou, it coldly stabs him through the brain and out the eye from behind, where he couldnt have even tried to locate its attack

under cut is further rambling, warning for that one page where junichirou gets stabbed in the eye + mentions of sexual abuse

narratively, this is definitely because of the explicit bloodlust junichirou expressed towards amenogozen; it attacked as quickly as possible with as little chance for him to fight back because he's obviously dangerous, and fyodor instructed it to kill all of the ada members there as soon as possible. but, in a more metaphorical sense, especially when comparing it to kunikidas "death" (hes not dead i dont believe any of them are like seriously) it gets. um. upsetting

considering the way it seemed to try and console kunikida as i mentioned earlier, comparisons can be drawn to that of an abusive parent, although ill just be saying its an unspecified authority figure for the sake of this rant. in this metaphor, junichirou seems to play the role of the "disobedient" victim; whereas kunikida was frozen in place and didnt do much to fight against amenogozen attacking himself specifically, junichirou was immediately aggressive and threatened amenogozen, prompting it to "punish" him as soon as possible

now, this on its own is far from groundbreaking; if you did a drinking game for every time a character was mentioned to have been abused by an authority figure in bsd youd be dead before episode 6, but its the specific imagery evoked in junichirous death scene that really gets to me

looking at this page more closely, especially in the first and third panels, brought up some EXTREMELY unsavory implications for me. the specific way that the action of him being stabbed is drawn, what with the blood oozing from around his whole eye and the way you can just barely make out what looks like the inside of the eye socket, all exacerbated by amenogozen practically pulling his hair to keep him in place and unable to fight back... look im not gonna pretend like this isnt based off my preexisting perception of junichirou and his trauma but oh my god this feels so much like an allegory for some kind of sexual exploitation, especially the fact it was the EYE in particular which is an already existing opening in the body kind of

could this just be me going insane? very much so, not gonna deny it. do i fullheartedly believe thats whats being pointed at here? yeah actually

and the worst part of it is that junichirou is just so dejected during this whole thing. he pointed out his location to amenogozen when it stabbed his illusion, phrased his request to atsushi as if it were last words, and was just in general so horribly unsurprised by the attack. whatever this is symbolizing, my personal interpretation or not, junichirou has grown so used to it he cant even bring himself to act like he really cares about it anymore. youre going to hell kafka asagiri

[runningatypufullspeed]

I have promised, and so you shall receive….

WOULD YOU GUYS LIKE TO SEE MY FUGLY UGLY ASS ALLEGORY OF THE CAVE X FAHRENHEIT 451 CROSSOVER DRAWING THAT I WAS FORCED TO DO FOR SCHOOL….. ITS SO UGLY AND MONTAG IS

WHITE.

AND THE HOUNDS ARE DISGUSTING THE COLORING IS SO SHITTY AND MILDRED …. Well ok she looks alright kindof but the drawing….. SKETCH WAS BETTER but do you guys. Do you still want to see it…….,,,,,,

ALSO NO OFFENSE TO WHITE PEOPLE PLEASE I LOVE YOU GUYS 🫶😁👍 within reason

[porcubus]

i feel that even more as time passes kromer's relationship to nazism has been forgotten, minimized, or used only as a joke etc "crazy fans think im a nazi for liking kromer" (which i personally have not seen but i have seen a lot of complaints about it). what kromer actually does in-story is not 1-1 with nazism and is more often (fairly enough) compared to ableism, or said to be left vague enough that it could be interpreted as multiple different things. i do agree with most of this, that you can make parallels to a lot of different types of bigotry from her language & that ableism is probably the clearest thing you can take from it if you focus only on who she actually targets. i also think that the way this is written is confusing and leads to people saying its not that/not as bad, because its "mostly rich people/more absurd fantasy prosthetics" rather than the type youd typically see in real life. to me this is kind of a failure on the writings part more than anything but thats not what i wanted to talk about. i disagree on the vagueness of what she actually represents

kromer (and nagul & hammer) is textually a nazi allegory. she is a white german fascist with inspiration lifted from christian inquisitors committing targeted genocide against a group she views as impure/heretical. something much less brought up from what i've seen but could do well being circulated more is that her title "One who Grips" is lifted from an essay by carl jung on hitler and nazi germany. its a translation of the title "Ergriffenheit" meaning one who seizes (notably cg jung and hermann hesse, the author of demian, actually knew eachother and were inspired by eachother's work, which this may be a reference to)

kromer is a villain, this isnt a complaint about how bad you can make a bad person or me saying you cant enjoy her for what she is. i do think some things could have been changed or handled better in regards to this but more than anything i just want to remind people that it is in fact what she is based on and not "People being crazy Woke Haters who just call everything nazis" or whatever. this is a core part of her character that i would say cant be handwaved away but seems to be overlooked regardless

[neomedievalist]

ship hate chart for that loser virgilius guy

I realized that i cant do most of these cuz i dont even know who tf this guy is and i refuse to learn but i hate it CONCEPTUALLY. We have to do something we have to step in and stop the yaoi industrial complex. The ship cannot be that good. For something that is not in the base game. Like I read umineko and then i open the ao3 tags and see a man who i have never heard of in my entire life at FOURTH MOST POPULAR SHIP. also it hurts me bc im a sicko who ships the real ass real life historical dante and vergil so i should be on board w mr. dante allegory and vergilius but hes NOT EVEN IN THE GAAAME HES NOT EVEN THERE. YOU ARE SHIPPING BATTLER WITH CONCEPT ART. please just grow the fuck up and ship batbeato like the rest of us. please.

[obrother1976]

can u make like. ur top 10 books. freak books. anything. kisses your brain

sure!! these r not gonna be ranked bc god knows i could never choose between them & also im gonna be annoying and ramble a bit about every one

death in venice by thomas mann (classic. but its so rich w metaphors and symbolism. if you do read it, i'd recommend reading "the uses of myth in death in venice" by isadore traschen afterwards, bc it does a great job explaining all the freudian allegories and mythological symbolism and u'll literally be tearing ur hair out afterwards over how brilliant thomas mann was)

the carnivorous lamb by agustín gómez-arcos (idc that i've already talked about this a gajillion times on here. its literally the best book i've ever read. i'll forever be obsessed and i wish there was literally anything that could ever hit as hard as this did. if u read it, anon (if u havent already) dont go through the carnivorous lamb tag on here bc u need to experience this without any big prior knowledge. trust me)

erotism: death and sensuality by george bataille (ik im just listing the classics atp. but how could i ever leave that one out. this ones a lot and depending on how into bataille & philosophy in general u are it could be too much. but if u havent already read this one anon, just read the introduction. trust me ure gonna loose it from that alone)

gemini by michel tournier (this one... took me ages to get through it on my first read bc of the way its written, but it was so worth it. not even gonna say much about this one - its basically like if twins by bari wood was good lmao)

incest: from a "journal of love": the unexpurgated diary of anais nin, 1932-1934 (or every anais nin diary ever in general, but this one especially. there was just no one that got it quite like she did)

indecent theology: theological perversions in sex, gender and politics by marcella althaus-reid (sorry for literally recommending theory. im pretty sure u were asking for fiction lol, but this (& althaus-reid in general) is everything to me. if u've any interest whatsoever in theology u should check this one out)

the sluts by dennis cooper (slightly controversial opinion i think? not that the book itself is controversial, just that dennis cooper is very hit and miss at times. this book tho, definite hit. its so intense and convoluted and i loved every second of it. read this before death and sensuality and u're guaranteed to think of nothing else for at least a month)

querelle of brest by jean genet ("those knock-out body fluids: blood, sperm, tears!". kind of a classic since theres also the fassbinder movie but i prefer the book tbh. its been a while since i've read it but it'll forever be in my favourites)

crash by j.g. ballard (yeah ik we've all seen crash but i need more ppl to read the book. hold on actually i need to insert one of my favourite bits from it here:

Reaching through the fractured windshields and passenger windows around me, I marked my semen on the oily instrument panels and binnacles, touching these wound areas at their most deformed points.)

ada, or ardor: a family chronicle by vladimir nabokov (one of the most beautiful books i've ever read. probably not the most helpful recommendation bc im pretty sure its a classic but i cant not mention it.)

also some bonus recommendations of books that didnt make the list bc they're either not freak books or bc i havent read them yet:

christopher and his kind by christopher isherwood (not a freak book. not even remotely. but will forever have a special place in my heart.)

the sparrow by maria doria russell (read this one anon!!! this would be on the list, but im not fully finished w it yet so i cant officially put it in my top 10 yet)

exquisite corpse by poppy z. brite (havent read that one yet but its on my list!!)

autobiography of red by anne carson (not a freak book. beautifully written, a work of art really)

as meat loves salt by maria mccann (havent read that one yet. hoping its as good as everyone says)

skagboys by irvine welsh (one thing about me is that i'll always find a way to mention the trainspotting books)

[lu-is-not-ok]

okay so your post abt Hong Lu NOT smiling in his base ego made me look at it reeeal closely. And Im sorry if it was mentioned somewhere apparently I cant read but what do you think about this statement: in his base ego he is not just chilling out there, he is locked in a room with treasures. And window frame looks like an allegory to jail bars. And I imply locked like literally. As if he was just a jewelry piece thrown to a pile of money and other jewelries.

— Hong Lu simp- I mean shrimp anon

Alright, let's actually discuss Hong Lu's base E.G.O art properly, shall we?

For a refresher, allow me to post the image here:

Now, let's get the obvious out of the way. The bars on the window.

Sure, they could symbolize Hong Lu being locked away in his home by his family... However, there's one issue with that.

Every. Single. Base E.G.O has the bars over the window.

Reminder that All of the Sinners are also All Prisoners. The Korean word used to describe them could mean both Sinners and Prisoners.

So... That lead is a bust. However, I don't think we're quite done here.

There's actually something far more innocuous I want to talk about - the pose Hong Lu is in. Specifically, the fact that he's sitting in a chair.

Only two other characters are seen to be sitting in a chair in their base E.G.Os - Sinclair and Meursault. It might just be the contentless brain speaking, but the fact that it's those three specifically makes me wonder if it's a subtle hint that there's a similarity between them.

Consider the fact that the two characters with a Sloth Core Sin - Gregor and Yi Sang, are also sitting in their base E.G.Os, however they're sitting on the ground instead, with notably dangerous objects scattered on that floor around them (in Gregor's case, it's weapons; in Yi Sang's case, it's shards of glass).

I think likewise Sinclair, Meursault, and Hong Lu being sat down in chairs is meant to symbolize something similar to Gregor and Yi Sang sitting on the ground surrounded by things that could harm them reflecting them resigning to their fates and becoming apathetic to the harm that was being caused to them.

For the three chair-sitters, I posit this idea: they're all people being forced into specific roles by expectations put on them. Sinclair ends up walking on this line between the worlds of good and evil because of societal pressure and Kromer's influence. Meursault constantly acts in whatever way other people wish him to act. And Hong Lu... well, there's his family, isn't it?

Now, let's take a closer look at some other details around Hong Lu's base E.G.O art.

The image in his window is actually quite evocative, in my opinion. It's a massive complex of red-colored mansions atop a stone platform above water, surrounded by nature in the distance. There's this feeling like the mansions don't actually belong in this environment, the red looking bright against the dark greens of the leaves and the pale blue of the sky. Likewise, this image carries a sense of isolation. The mansions are all centered on one stone island in the middle of a body of water, isolated from all this nature.

Is that how Hong Lu felt in his own home? Like he didn't fit in with the world? Like he was isolated from everything that he admired about the outside?

Also, note how important of a motif water is to Hong Lu. On Limbus's own terms, water is closely related to Gloom, due to that Sin representing the idea of Sinking (literally and figuratively) into your negative emotions, and being swept away by them. There's also likely Something to be said about Hong Lu and his motif of water in terms of wuxing, but I don't know enough about that to confidently say anything. Anyone with better grasp on those concepts, I would love to hear your thoughts!

In fact, this isn't the only time water is referenced in this art.

The chair Hong Lu sits in has a very notable engraving of waves and what looks to be a serpent, or perhaps a dragon, hidden among them.

And just like with the water motif, the dragon motif is also repeated somewhere else.

The weapon Hong Lu wields in this E.G.O actually includes a head of a dragon as part of its blade. Something about the way Hong Lu cradles it and the expression he looks at it with is so interesting to me. Dragons are often symbols of power, prosperity, and good fortune.

Is he clinging to it in fear because it's the only thing he has left that is truly his? Or is this a representation of some inner worry that that's all he is to his family, some symbol of their fortune?

Kind of hard to tell for sure at this moment.

Now, I'm about to go on a tangent about a background detail that might not mean much, but stay with me here.

Looking at the riches Hong Lu is surrounded by in this illustration, most of it is things that you'd probably expect. Coins, golden rings and trinkets, various colored gems, chests both closed and open... However, there's one thing in these piles that caught my attention as seeming... kind of odd.

This golden braid looking thing that wraps and winds around the gold piles in the background.

It made me think, because it's a very specific thing to include, and in actually rather sparce amounts as well. There seems to be only one braid, but it goes through the whole length of the background, disappearing behind objects every now and then.

So, I googled if there's any symbolism related to this idea of a golden braid and... I found something interesting. A book called Gödel, Escher, Bach: an Eternal Golden Braid.

I've never read this book, but from what a wikipedia summary says, it's a book that tries to convey the idea of "strange loops". Cycles that continue through several levels, both upward and downward, and always end up forming a closed loop despite those shifts in levels. Recursion and self-reference are important themes to this book.

And... that made me think. Book Jia Bao-yu's nature as a jade stone reincarnated as a human. Hong Lu, seemingly referencing Bao-yu, yet at the same time being seemingly named after the jade itself. Hong Lu's odd connection to death, and this idea of rebirth. The idea of a loop that travels upward, yet ends up back at the bottom where it started.

...I might be looking way too deep into an inconsequential background detail, but this wouldn't be the first time PM decided to mix and match their inspirations and make them into a far bigger deal than it seems to at first. Demian as The Little Prince, anyone?

It just. Almost feels right, you know?

[crookedkryptonitebeliever]

I’m sorry but I’m just a really huge Yves stan. Like listen, Yves would freak me out so bad that I would probably be sweating profusely every time he is within a 6 feet radius, but like as someone who went through parentification and was essentially a glass child with unmet needs when I was younger , the motherly vibes that Yves exudes,,, I’m sorry but I would be hooked, addicted even. Hell I might become the yandere too who knows LMAO.

Like Monty would be cool because I wouldn’t be as intimidated by him, well aside from his sheer size but he’s just a bit sleezy to me I dunno but Yves has this sort of lithe, vampiric, serpent like essence to him that would make me nervous but excited. Hell having someone pour into me in THAT fashion would have me excited.

Also and like correct me if I’m wrong (this is my interpretation) but I feel like Monty is the type of guy that would’ve folded for any person that gave him attention during that time. Like reader was just caught up at the right (wrong) time and now has him following them everywhere, when this literally could’ve been someone else (I think this was already addressed in the story, either this one or the first Monty story I can’t remember) but like YVES, I feel like he has a specific reason why he chose the reader, we would never know but there’s probably something really unique about his darling that makes him so enamored, maybe it a combination of things, who knows. But I feel like his love is more unique and special, to me.

I dunno man I just want someone to check up on me like Yves, I’m down bad.

tw: implication of suicide

YES I BE FUKIN DOWN BAD 4 YVES TOO CAUS HE IS SO MOTHERLY

okay so like the reason why Yves is so into you has been a hot topic on this account, originally i planned to be like some sort of reincarnation shit but that wouldn't hold much water and it would be a little too creepy to imply that he was watching even before ur birth, kinda like preordering a partner and that's already grooming

so i left it vague and up for interpretation and just said he's the allegory of a perfect parent (one link within the link) like i promise i do not condone grooming n incest shit but like, something about having someone knows you deeply and wholly like a fucking parent is really hot, not hot in the "i want to fuck my mom and dad" kinda way, but more like "OH GOD PLEASE I FUCKING WISH YVES IS REAL I WANT TO BE TAKEN CARE OF SO BAD AND I WANT SOMEONE TO SEE IM SUFFERING AND TAKWE IT AWAY FROM MEEEEE PLEASEPLEASEPLEASE PLEAASSSEEEEEEE"

these themes literally show up in almost all my works esp Yandere older brother, Yandere best friend and heavily in my Language Barrier series

Whereas for monty, that was my attempt of like trying something new, stuff that I' don't necessarily fancy but it's a nice change of pace, the exact opposite of Yves; the stereotype of the man of the house: dirty, manchild (cant cook), fixes shit his own, doesn't even own a house to handle its affairs, uses dishsoap to wash himself, sex fiend, financially irresponsible, inattentive but trying his best beer is my best friend

Whereas Yves is a stereotype of the woman, cooks, clean, has a 20 step skincare routine, takes care of his looks, hygiene, dress up well, proper etiquette, makeup, handles the finance, saving himself after marriage, more research than the FBI, loves fashion, fitness, live laugh love

and like i get it im not surprised , there will be those who prefer monty over Yves and Yves over monty. just like there's this anon who said something along the lines of Monty are for those who want to fix him, while Yves is for those who wants to BE fixed.

i did have a lot of anons disliking both sides of the yin n yang which was expected n shit

and yes ur right, Monty would have fallen for anyone who saved him not necessarily you, you just happened to be at the wrong place at the wrong time- but his saving grace is that once he latched on , he's never letting go there is no one that could replace you. Mans is going to off himself if you're gone

in conclusion, im also downbad for yves

sauryy montyy

[jane-john-doe-tournament]

Jane Doe (Ride the Cyclone) Propaganda:

Great singing, also she’s literally wearing a doll‘s head bc she lost hers

do they have their soul or is it rotting somewhere with their head?

BALLAD OF JANE DOE IS SO SAD AND SHE IS GREAT AND I ONLY WATCH RTC ONCE BUT SHES NY FAVE OK

cool asf

She forgets her name after her death and has no story told in the production

She's so sweet and deserves the world. Her song (The Ballad of Jane Doe) is great.

the song goes so hard just listen to her song guys please

she literally died and her head was cut off so nobody could tell who she was PLEASE let her take one (1) W

BECAUSE SHE IS AMAZING. First she already won the tournament in the musical to regain life, as she won them over with her sad wet cat energy because she did not have a head and feared that she lost her soul. Second, she died on a roller coaster and lost her head, but stole her doll's head and thats very gender. Third, throughout the musical she is used as a vessel for religious allegory, she is an angel, she is jesus, she is a demon, she is forsaken but she is purity itself. Fourthly, she is is given the identity of Savannah with the greenest eyes after the other characters who died with her hold her a birthday party, and I think thats sweet because its probably some kind of meaning I cant see but auughfhfhh shes so cool

i mean her name isn't TECHNICALLY jane doe but we refer to her as such. she's so silly!! autism powers! i don't have a lot of propaganda tbh. i would've just been surprised had she NOT been submitted

She lost her head literally when the rollercoaster derailed. She wasn't able to be identified apart from the school uniform she was wearing.

Her name is forgotten, and so is everything about her. So she’s called Jane Doe. She’s very sweet and very creepy, but she doesn’t mean it

and im asking WHYYYYY LORRRRRDDD

I LOVE HER! she died in a roller coaster accident and was decapitated, her body not being found. in the show, her head is actually just her doll’s head. the coroners couldn’t identify her, so she was dubbed a jane doe. in the game to be alive again, she ends up being voted, her name being revealed to be penny lamb. anyways she’s a little creepy and also quite silly and she does her funny little waddle like a porcelain doll (or corpse).

She deserves it! She lost her head she shouldn't lose this too.

Not convinced you didn’t start this tournament just for her tbh

They have a great song and a true air of mystery to them. They also have arguably the best song in the musical, The Ballad of Jane Doe! I would definitely recommend listening to it >:)

—She LOST her HEAD and had it replaced with a PORCELAIN DOLL —In all seriousness her story is really poignant. No one could identify her body so she arrives in the afterlife not knowing her identity and she spends the show vacillating between depressed and angry at her situation, leading to… —“The Ballad of Jane Doe”, specifically Emily Rohm’s version, might be the most haunting solo in musical theatre history.

The Anatomy Students (The Magnus Archives) Propaganda:

So technically there a 7 of them each with a different localization but one of them is legitimately John Doe

Also they are responsible for bone apple teeth

They are very fun

This submission is for the class of students in Episode 34: Anatomy Class, who are named Erika Mustermann, Jan Novak, Piotr and Pavel Petrov, John Doe, Fulan al-Fulani and Juan Pérez, which are all "John/Jane Doe" names. They are so creepy and so cool.

[about John/Jane Doe in particular]

Very good normal anatomy student doing his best to learn

This is a horror that went to anatomy class with a group of different variations of john doe esque names to learn about human body functions and scare a teacher for a full semester. was called john doe in the statement but later shows up as jane doe. trans rights?