#agreed that Helaena and her kids did not deserve this

[andreawritesit]

Having a tragedy happen to him does not suddenly make Aegon worthy of the Iron throne. I do not understand people who switch teams over B&C. The question was never of morality. Viserys declared his daughter as his heir. Period. Usurpers took her right away and shall pay the price, however gruesome it will be.

[doctorwhoandfairytaillover]

Loving Arms (2)

Summary: The children of Viserys I from his wife Alicent Hightower had always been lacking in affection from their parents. They simply didn't realize how much until their widowed aunt was brought into their lives. (AU where Alicent has an older sister and her kids get the love that they deserve, takes place some time after the Driftmark event)

Part II: Family Dinner

A/N: No pairings as of right now as I want to focus on the familial and platonic relationships with Greens when they're still quite young. (credit for the divider goes to @kawaii-lau)

The royal family were not ones to eat a meal together often; typically dinner consisted of Alicent, Helaena, and Aemond. Or Otto and Alicent, even simply Aemond and Helaena. But rare was the occurrence that Aegon would sit at the table to dine with his family and that all members, apart from his Majesty the King Viserys, would choose to eat with one another.

Of course, the elder Hightower daughter was unaware that it was solely due to her arrival that all were seated at the table.

The meal itself was sumptuous; fresh venison on a bed of roasted vegetables, bread straight from the oven, a hearty stew, and a variety of sweet cakes and treats. All things that (Y/N) did not hesitate to eat from her plate, famished from her weary travels.

It was quiet, save for the occasional scrape of knives and the clink of forks or spoons.

"Well," Alicent smiled. "Isn't it lovely that we can all come together and eat as a family after so many years apart. If only Gwayne was here as well, then it would be similar to our youth, don't you think (Y/N)?"

Her older sister offered a tense smile, "I suppose it is a bit like our childhood. I am surprised you still remember any of it since you were quite young at our last family gathering."

"It comes and goes, because as you say, I was quite young when... when our mother passed," Alicent smiled at her children and all three straightened. "But I am reminded of it when I spend time with my sons and daughter."

"Then I am sure she barely remembers then," Aegon muttered and earning himself a kick to leg from Aemond.

"Behave!" the younger scolded.

Otto cleared his throat and the boys sat up in their chairs once more.

"Let us move past all this," the Hand said. "No need to trouble ourselves with the nonsense of remembering bygones and look to the future. Keeping our family strong and well established.

"Hear, hear!" Alicent agreed while lifting her chalice in agreement.

His oldest daughter couldn't help but laugh at her father's words and shook her head.

"Did you find any humor in my words, daughter?" he asked.

The tone in which he spoke, seemed to trigger something in Alicent as she shrunk back in her seat and looked to the meal in front of her. Her older sister, on the other hand stared straight ahead to their father.

"I find it amusing that you say that, Father" (Y/N) said while cutting into her venison. "You didn't seem to find the notion of family all that important when you left behind two orphaned children in Oldtown for your elder brother to deal with."

A sweeping silence fell over the table.

"Or am I wrong?" she asked. "Mother had recently passed when you left Gwayne and I behind at Oldtown, taking only our dear Alicent with you. She was your favorite after all."

"Do not start with me, (Y/N)!" Otto scolded. "You know your brother was being raised to someday lead Oldtown in my stead."

"What about your recently disfigured daughter? Why was she left behind?" she asked. "Or were you too ashamed that my face would make you a laughingstock. When as your oldest daughter, I should have also been allowed to accompany you to find an advantageous marriage as well."

"Do not speak nonsense, (Y/N)." Her father grumbled, "It was to your benefit that you stayed behind, otherwise you would have never been able to marry your husband. I have always looked to ensure our family would be well off."

She scoffed and rolled her eyes, a soft frown marring her features. Her father's response seemed to aggravate her more than she let on, as she stood up from her seat, scraping it heavily against the floor.

"I think I will retire to my chambers for the evening," she turned to smile softly at her nephews and niece. "I will see all of you early tomorrow morning, I have a few things that I brought you three from Dorne."

She turned stiffly to her younger sister and father, "Good night!"

The clicking of her heels against the floor echoed as she left the room, and the Targaryen siblings looked to one another before turning their gaze to their mother and grandsire.

"May we be excused, Mother?" Aemond asked politely.

Alicent looked to be apprehensive, but her father wanted to have a word with her and waved the trio off. Muttering to himself in annoyance over his eldest daughter's words and behavior that evening.

Aegon was quick to pull his younger brother and sister from their seats, hoping that he could avoid either of the adults minds from allowing them to step away. Knowing that they would attempt to stop the siblings if they knew that they would chase after their aunt.

"Come on, come on!" Aegon urged with a giggle, hurrying to catch up with (Y/N).

Something soft bubbled beneath Aegon's chest and he could not remember a time he had felt this way since his childhood had been marred by maltreatment, neglect, and unkind words. But seeing his own aunt stand up for herself, not letting his grandsire excuse himself for his callous actions of the past, it lit a small feeling of hope that perhaps someone could understand.

And he didn't want to let that feeling go.

Aemond was struggling through his own internal torment and insecurity. He did not want to get his hopes up that his aunt would understand his feelings about feeling othered and scorned for his appearance that was he felt was no fault of his own, but he knew that he truly wanted to know.

No, he needed to know if there was someone else like him.

Helaena, perhaps did not feel as conflicting emotions as that of her older and younger brothers, but she also felt that things would soon change with the presence of their outspoken aunt. Words had often failed her, those closest to her rarely were able to understand the young princess even when she was direct with her words. But now... now here was this woman, that was clear and did not mince her words and let her thoughts be known.

She wanted to learn from this woman that was not afraid to be herself.

And there, standing alongside her sworn guard was (Y/N) as she intended to ready herself in her chambers.

But almost collectively the three shouted, "Muña!"

She turned to them and as soon as her soft eyes fell on their figures.

She smiled.

And it was then, the three were absolutely certain that they needed her to be a permanent fixture in their lives.

A/N: And that concludes part 2! 🥳 Please let me know what you all think, I am honestly super pumped to continue this series.

PS. If your name doesn't show up highlighted, I am not able to tag you properly for some reason.

Tag List:

@minaxcarter, @hotleaf-juice, @pikomin, @deltamoon666, @cococrazy18, @firefairy, @dracaryxzs, @snowbunny58, @lacherrysouldy, @only4thefics, @queen-luna-007, @ambrivertenergy, @kayllineb12, @minejungwoo, @delaynew, @agustdeeyaa, @hueanhdang

[moonshine999]

It’s just the fact that we deserved so much more time with them and their dynamic. Show us Helaena and Aegon’s wedding. Does his feelings about this marriage ever change? Would they have smiled if they had danced together? How much would they have talked to each other throughout the celebrations, if at all?

Show us Aemond putting the eye patch over his eye for the very first time. How does he feel about a part of him being gone forever? How does he respond to having yet another imperfection, while he has spent so long just to prove that he is more than a second son? Why does he decide to put the sapphire in his eye?

Show us Helaena and Aegon throughout and before their marriage. Did they get along? Did they have shared interests? Was it ruined when their father announced their marriage?

Show us Helaena battling her dreams. Can she control them or do they come in flashes and bursts that leave her crying? Is she able to control the prophecies she utters? Does she fully know what they mean? Does she try to tell her brothers or mother?

Show us Aegon claiming Sunfyre. How does he feel to be the first of his siblings (except Rhaenyra) to claim a dragon? Does he feel some sense of pride? How does he tell Viserys? Does his father congratulate him or wave him off as if he has heard this a million times over?

Show us Aemond asking Criston for extra lessons. Does he fully give away why he wants to master the art of the sword? Does Criston agree immediately? Do they tell the other princes or have sessions behind their backs?

Show us them gathering around to discuss the fact that mother is sending Daeron away to Oldtown. How do each of them respond? Would they tell Daeron outwardly how they feel or keep it to themselves? Do they protest against their mother for this?

Show us them interacting with Rhaenyra. Do they act cold and distant? Do they try to find similarities and spark conversation? Do they simply refuse to talk?

Show us Aegon and Helaena visiting their kids before their coronation. Do they tell them about their duties right away or do they wait, till they are used to it themselves? Do they talk to Jaehaerys about becoming heir? How would they have kept their kids safe when Rhaenys storms the hall?

Show us all three having a conversation with Alicent. Do they always act cold towards her? Do they do it due to the burden of duty? Do they care about their mother’s approval?

Just show us.

[ellewod]

if their job was to make me root for team black and be against Aegon someone should have told Tom. His layered brilliant performance showing the pain, vulnerability, humor, and insecurities of Aegon made me root for him more then cold calculation team black portrayed IMO. One scene in particular stands out because of how subtle it was. When his new kings guard is talking about gong to a brothel he says in the softest quietest voice “but you’ve sworn an oath of chastity.” Then when they laugh he almost looks hurt betrayed and embarrassed. Then when they try to be serious for his sake he smiles big and continues trying to be the Aegon they know and expect him to be. It’s so small but in that moment he shows how Aegon took it seriously when he made them kings guard, but once again like everyone else they think he’s a joke. Then he has to put on the mask once more of I’m just kidding guys, but you can see he’s hurt. That’s just one of many little moments that made me team Aegon. Tom deserves so much praise for the performance he gave for a character we’re suppose to hate. He deserves all the awards!

agree with everything you said 😭 love this beautiful roach king with all my heart and tom is a blessing, aegon stan nr #1, absolute best casting choice ever

that scene is SO underrated!!! brother was he disappointed. like you said, he tries. so hard. he never wanted the crown, he was forced to wear it.

i would’ve loved the show to actually portray it as him carrying the burden to save his siblings and his babies. but that would’ve made the casual viewers sympathize with him even back in season one and we cannot have that.

the scene you are referring to depicts so beautifully how hard aegon tries once he is king. but even before that, we see him trying so hard. he wants to be a righteous ruler beloved by the people. he yearns for their approval and adoration, and is willing to “buy” their love.

he wants to prepare his heir, wants jaehaerys to feel his father’s pride and love and support. something aegon was never allowed to feel.

aegon wants to make smart decisions to win the war. he offers so many good suggestions, but nobody ever listens. he, however, is willing to hear advice (“what would you have me do, mother?”), but the ones whose opinions he cares most about disrespect him so terribly (“nothing”, “my grandson is a fool”, “imbecile”, “insolent pup”, …).

aegon even tries to be a good brother/husband when comforting helaena who is afraid (“don’t be. they’d be fools to come” — YES that is him trying, softer voice and all, and i will never interpret this any other way).

he tries to be a better man, as tgc stated so beautifully: “I think he’s conscious that he wants to be a better person. He just doesn’t quite know how. He hasn’t had that nurturing that you require to have a good understanding of values and morals and that capacity to love.”

aegon wants his friends turned kingsguard to try as well. he knows of values and morals and he wants to be better. but his buddies don’t and it deeply disappoints him. he is teary-eyed when he smiles??

he desperately wants to be taken seriously and not to be seen as weak. but rejecting his friends isn’t an acceptable solution either, he needs his buddies, he cannot be completely on his own, he cannot not have anyone to drink with. so he goes back to being a frat boy visiting the brothel, drinking, watching his kingsguard break their oaths.

but before he does that, after having this shattering conversation where he realizes that everything he tries fails so miserably, not even his kingsguard are taking their oaths seriously, he turns around and looks in the mirror.

what does he feel, what does he see? a father who has lost his son in the most gruesome way, just mere moments ago, with no one to share his grief with. his mother doesn’t want to hold him, he is unable to converse with his wife. maybe even ashamed he did not protect her and their son from this fate? didn’t take her fears seriously?

what else is there? a young man, unprepared to rule, constantly ridiculed, belittled and used as a puppet, manipulated by his mother during his darkest hours.

a young man that has been made to feel useless all his life, now forced to be king. and he tries to embrace his new role. tries so hard. but everyone continues to belittle him. nobody takes him or their oaths seriously. and it’s crushing him.

[daeneryseastar]

Team Green is in the right💚💚💚 they are right no matter what you say.

How dare you say that Tg supports a r*p!st ???🤬

TG DOESN'T SUPPORT R*P1STS, infact, THEY support Rape survivors.

Like Alicent, who had to commit *duty and sacrifice* unlike Rhaenyra. No, she's right in everything, because she did duty and sacrifice.

TG, also supports another rape survivor, Cristin cole!💚💚💚

Did you know that Rhaenyra r*aped criston? Cristin was innocent the whole time, he did nothing wrong because silver princess seduced him.

I can't wait until TG supports other rape supporters. TG is the protecter of r*pe survivors.

So I can't until they support another r*pe victim, dyana. I can't wait to see thier support for dyana in season 2.

TG says they are r*ape victim protectors, didn't they? So wait till they support dyana.

ngl, this DID get me for a second, because this is how they genuinely sound like. they love to preach modern day morality onto characters like alicent and helaena, but suddenly it’s ’you’re not supposed to view the show/book through a modern day lens’ when it comes to rhaenyra.

‘supporters of rape victims’ except the audience not seeing aegon rape dyana on screen means that it didn’t happen, helaena’s implication of being sexually abused by her brother at the dinner scene is ‘taken out of context’ and she actually LOVES her brother, and he her. the only character that they can for sure agree on being maritally raped and abused is alicent, and how dare rhaenyra also be a victim of the men around her, just not in the same palatable way as the other women in her circle who suffer in silence, making it other women’s problems and not their actual abusers?

“she cuckolded her husband and had obvious bastards! she wanted her brother tortured in defense of her bastards! her bastards aren’t human, and by that count, neither is she! she should be grateful that she and her children were only abused for 10+ years by alicent! she should be grateful that alicent was attempting to have her and her kids disinherited, exiled, or even put to death; she was obviously manipulated by the father she hadn’t seen in well over 10 years, it was all him! and daemon!! the guy who she also didn’t see for 10+ years, and never once mentioned outside of episode nine’s ‘rhaenyra will never bend the knee, nor will daemon.’ she’s been terrified of these almost nonexistent men for years, it’s justifiable why she baited her kids against their sister! making herself and her kids enemies of the *one* person who would have the authority to have them killed when she takes the throne! if rhaenyra had been a good girl and done her duty, maybe she would deserve our sympathy! but she didn’t so she deserves to die a horrible and gruesome fate for fighting back! sunfyre ate!”

their support for dyana has already reared it’s rather ugly head, just look at any pro team black comment sections on tiktok or general posts on twitter 🤷‍♀️ very nice of them to be as supportive of dyana as they are of alicent. i mean, just look at the evidence:

this is totally normal behavior.

[horizon-verizon]

Aegon III and Jaehaera “healing together” would be like:

Jaehaera: I miss my father.

Aegon III, having a PTSD trigger: Well, I miss my mother! AND YOU KNOW WHO GRUESOMELY KILLED MY MOTHER WHILE I WAS WATCHING ?!

Jaehaera: And I miss my twin brother! AND YOU KNOW WHO SEND THE MEN WHO BEHEADED HIM IN FRONT OF ME & MY MOM ?!

Aegon III: Nothing would have happened if your grandmother didn’t usurped my mother and your uncle didn’t ruthlessly murdered my brother.

Their marriage would have been SOOO INCREDIBLY UGLY, BITTER, MISERABLE AND HOPELESS. That union never stood a chance. Aegon III spent about 3 years married to her and never made any attempt to befriend her and had more interactions with Unwin Peake’s daughter than her. They wouldn’t have any children, he’d abdicate in favor of Viserys if he didn’t marry Daenaera and then locked himself in a tower.

Yeah, I agree. I understand that the real English War of the Roses that war/sub-battles ended with a happier and successful marriage between the two warring houses of York and Lancaster so it seems that Aegon III and Jaehaera could have also had a great marriage--or at least a civil one with a lot of kids/heirs. However, though yes we had the structure of "one child of the two warring families marry for peace" of the War of Roses, the Dance was modeled and takes inspiration from the Anarchy, where Empress Matilda fought against her male cousin, Stephen of Blois, for the English throne. Where the conflict was strictly about who deserves the throne: the female declared heir or the eldest male relative? And who will obtain it, who fights for them, who suffers, etc.

Plus Henry VII of the Plantagenet branch of Tudor (through Jon of Gaunt) & Elizabeth of the house of York--the people who married each other while from the opposing houses after the Battle of Bosworth Field--were both relatively healthy adults AND Henry actually won the throne through his own leadership in battle after killing Richard II (her paternal uncle). The same uncle whose mainly held responsible for Elizabeth's younger brothers' disappearances. So Henry & Elizabeth had a way better beginning than Aegon III & Jaehaera.

Even with the Anarchy, GRRM doesn't transfer all of the events or major ones/results into his fiction. The conclusion of the anarchy was still a woman being passed over: Stephen won and got to rule but Empress Matilda's son--Henry Plantagenet-- was designated as the next to rule in the Treaty of Wallingford. But she wasn't brutally murdered in front of said son like Rhaenyra; yet despite Stephen's efforts his own sons never sat the throne like Aegon; yet the war ravaged England as the Dance did Westeros enough that in both the lords/barons sought peace above all AND Matilda lost the throne.

GRRM seemed to want to capture the sense of futility of the war's destruction (not its cause though, not absolutely) with how it should have never happened to begin with from a place of usurping a woman. There was no happy-dappy marriage or even an attempt at one in the real thing.

Jaehaera was made totally disadvantaged for a reason:

a) making her and Aegon both children in the aftermath of the war, controlled by ambitious adults still who do not have their best interests at heart makes to highlight theie vulnerability and the cause being misogyny and classism leading those in power to declare such wars

b) their parents fighting and destroying each other to the bitter end instead of what occurred in the actual Anarchy

c) the greens pushed for war under the principle of "men only" at the cost of its female members' mental and physical health or putting those in danger (mainly Helaena and Jaehaera) for the sake of power. Jaehaera could have grown up happier and for longer if her own father hadn't decided to calm down and not try to go after several of Rhaenyra's supporters in the way that he was planning to, nor should he have usurped his older sister. He shouldn't have celebrated Lucerys' murder at the feast he threw that was almost certainly part of the inspiration for Blood & Cheese whereby his oldest male heir was killed. His other male heir was put into danger when he, again, usurped Rhaenyra and led armies against her when she had been already declared and ACCEPTED as Viserys heir for years. All he had left was his daughter, but bc the whole point of his claim was "males only" AND he was himself an asshole, he decided to marry again to get another male heir. It was also Alicent who tried to intimidate or persuade her granddaughter to kill Aegon as if the child wasn't already scarred from war and mentally fragile from her disabilities so that she, Alicent, could get revenge against the already dead Rhaenyra. The greens, not the blacks or Rhaenyra, are the main ones at fault for Jaehaera's demise--her death is on their hands since every which way, they chose power over her.

[bl00dlight]

about people who think you're unfair when it comes to depicting aemond... are just delusional who mayhaps read aemond x reader or fanfictions or some headcanons... aemond is and will always be a villainous person, when he was a kid he wanted to bash the head of his nephew with a rock ( this resulting in him losing an eye and he deserves it, sorry nog sorry ) + his pursue for powers will be his well-deserved downfall. he's a raging misognist like the rest of the entire family, like... aww he is crying when helaena bluntly tells him the truth ? hope he'll rot with his guilt. you are totally right, he's a piece of shit and i can't wait to see his demise.

I mean AHAHAHAHAHHAHA. Speak your truth diva.

Look I love Aemond. Okay... let me just say.

BUT, yes no you're right like. He is fucking awful and the worst. And I do want to see him rot with his guilt a little, especially what he did to Helaena. Like I love him, and I understand him. And I do feel sympathy for him.

If I was Helaena would I have have said yes before he'd been finished his sentence? Yes. Would I have girl bossed it and proposed to him like Rhaenyra did to Daemon? Yes. Would I hypothetically let this fictional man suck and fuck on me?.... undeniably. Is this a parasocial relationship? Yes.

But it's undeniable that so many girlies on here fucking act like tradwives defending their right wing, MRA adjacent, wife beating man. Like you can want to cook him dinner and also call him out for genocide. Really gets me concerned about... well... how some of yall interact with men irl. A man like Aemond irl, is an incel.

Someone said this on reddit about the balcony scene, that it was like when an incel goes up to his crush to try and get her to be on his side before he shoots up a school. And AHAHHA exactly.

They act as if Aemond is indeed a victim through and through, who has done no wrong and is a sweetypie. And is it self insert fluff fics fault? Yes it is. People are attracted to Ewan... and their idea of Aemond. Not really Aemond as he is. And many don't want to interact with analysis of his character. Which is fine. No hate, you do you. But it is a problem when others make it fans like myself, problem.

And as someone with a disorganised attachment style? As someone who upon watching the Harry Potter series as a child who had their sexual awakening upon seeing both Draco and Luicus Malfoy. As someone who has been a Sharpay Evans defender since it came out and as someone who agreed with Rosalie Cullen that Bella was a boring ass... whiny as bitch....

I gotta say? Mean, evil and toxic platinum blondes? I'm here for them and I love them. And I am basically attracted to Aemonds character/interested in him because of the fact he is a fucking asshole. Okayyyy soooooo. Don't get me wrong I love the idea of soft, vunerable Aemond. But I can only love that because it's a rare thing for him. Because he's main mode is acting like a horror movie villain. I've always been about that life of loving dark characters. It seems many upon here are just... well... they find him hot and wanna smash. Which is valid. But it's not valid to project your personal sexual/romantic fantasies onto other fans who are just... discussing canon characteristics of Aemond.

And even reddit neckbeards do it to because they relate to Aemond. They'll swear he was this valiant, dutiful, scorned boy. They'll swear he wasn't a Valyrian supremacist. They'll swear he would never hurt or betray his family. But it's like? So basically how the fuck does someone campaign for the fucking third reich *House Strong Edition* be day and be a loving family man by night who would never betray his family if he felt abandoned/humiliated or hurt by them? So you know... the fanboys who thump the book like it's the bible also are FUCKING ANNOYING.

It's actually crazy.

[favichanwriter]

Me: *likes a cute/nice/awesome fanart featuring any member of Team Green because I like the art/follow the artist*

My tumblr feed: *is inmediately filled with TG fans with 4ft long posts about how Rhaenyra is actually the bad guy*

Like, seriously, I have nothing against people who likes Team Green. I'm Team Black, but I acknowledge people have different opinions on diverse topics.

Yes, Rhaenyra was not a saint, but neither were Alicent, Aemond, Aegon and Otto.

Alicent literally usurped her step-daughter's throne aided by her father.

Jaehaerys (Aegon and Helaena's son) was an innocent and didn't deserved his death, but Lucerys did not deserved to die in the way he died either, specially when he went to Storm's End as his mother's emisary.

Yes, we can all agree that Viserys was a Bad Dad™ to all of his kids because he was a Pathological People Pleaser™ and had huge expectations to fill.

Otto preyed on his grief for Aemma and their stillborn child to put Alicent as queen (Alicent was EIGHTEEN in the books by the time she married Viserys, and Rhaenyra was like 12).

In short, everyone in that family is fucked up, and I support Rhaenyra because she IS the rightful queen of Westeros (if Viserys wanted to give the throne to his son, he could have done it any time in between his son's birth and his death) .

[pessimisticpigeonsworld]

So I saw someone talking about how weird it must have been for the women married into House Targaryen to raise their children to marry each other. Like how difficult it must have been to go against what they personally were raised with and any preexisting instict. And yk, I totally agree with that, and was about to like the post, BUT then I looked at the tags, and you'll never guess who was one of the wome they were talking was. Alicent fucking Hightower. See my issue with Alicent being seen through op's lens is that Alicent, unlike Elia (who was also tagged), she is not the mother to the heir of the throne. Alicent's children are the spare heirs, and Rhaenyra has married a Valyrian lord and had three heirs (by the time of episode 6). Therefore there is no need for Alicent to marry her children to each other, something she did express discomfort with in episode 5, and Viserys has allowed her an unusual amount of say over the marriages. And yet, she forced Helaena to marry Aegon at ages 13 and 15 respectively. Now why would poor Alicent do this? Because she wants to strengthen Aegon's claim in preparation for the greens' coup. Alicent does not deserve pity for what she put her children through, she was shown as having so much power over their lives, yet she did nothing to help them. Is she a victim? In the show, yes, but that doesn't mean she gets to hurt everyone else, including her own fucking kids. I'm not blaming her solely for how her sons turned out, they have free will, they should be held accountable for their own actions. But let's not pretend Alicent is some helpless victim with no say in her life and the lives of her children, especially their marriages.

[restinslices]

HOTD SEASON 2 EPISODE 1 SPOILERS BELOW CUT! MOVE MOVE MOVE MOVE!

Also warning, I am not Team Green

Aight I got some thoughts. Firstly Jace and Nyra? My heart was in pain.

Alicent saying Aemond made a youthful mistake is wild as fuck. And Aemond still being angry? Honestly him being angry has always made no sense to me. Take out the whole Vhagar thing. You threatened to kill Jace and Luke and Luke attacked you. He wasn’t even aiming for the eye. You did smth stupid cause you felt like hot shit and lost an eye. Oops. And him still being angry even after Luke is gone? Who else could you possibly be angry at? Be so fucking fr rn.

Speaking of being so fucking fr… Alicent and Criston.

I have nothing to say. Criston is still mad Nyra didn’t wanna be poor with him. It’s been over 20 years. You should’ve been on duty but instead was fucking Alicent. Absolute idiot. Kill him. I cannot stand this man.

And as much as I think Aemond is dumb for playing peekaboo with that big ass dragon, he has a point. He said smth about how his mom blames him for starting the war as if they didn’t usurp the throne. He is unfortunately spitting.

And lastly, Blood and Cheese.

What happened was bad, don’t get me wrong. However, when I heard GRRM was shook by what he saw, I was expecting WAY worse. Like, it was bad and I think both teams can agree that Helaena deserved so much better. But I was expecting to be traumatized. I’m glad I wasn’t tho cause seeing a kid being murdered would’ve been ass. Ppl kept saying it was horrifying tho and I’m assuming Blood and Cheese is only this one incident. Idk what’ll happen to the rest of her kids.

Her walking in on Alicent and Criston fucking almost made me laugh ngl. I feel like it kinda took away from the scene but oh well.

What y’all think of the first episode?

[lady-corrine]

This is a rant abt the black and how people defend them so easily, you don’t have to read if you don’t want to,

Btw I’m teamless, I don’t support either side but I really don’t like how everyone depicts the blacks as the beacon of light (the heroes) especially in the Aemond situation

The fight between the kids was started by Daemon’s daughters and they all literally got Aemond to the floor and were ganging up on him until he picked up the rock (Which he wasn’t even gonna use because it was a scare tactic, he literally put it down until Jace pulled out the knife) and then when he starts to defend himself again luke takes his eye. I know people like to say “Well Aemond deserves it because he stole Vhagar” or “Well he shouldn’t have done it on the night of the funeral” but we are constantly told that dragons aren’t possessions and that the dragon has to bond and choose their rider, if vhagar hadn’t accepted Aemond then he’d be dead (Dragons aren’t family heirlooms passed down either) and while I do agree that it was wrong to bond with Vhagar at the night of Laena’s Funeral, I feel like people tend to block the fact that Rhaenyra sleeps with Daemon (He’s also to blame but I’m just pointing out a character flaw of Rhaenyra’s that people tend to ignore), Laena’s Widow, the exact same night also. Also Aegon, Jace and Luke bullied Aemond for not having a dragon so you can understand Aemond’s desperation because he was tired of being made fun of. Then in the next scene Rhaenyra sees that her brothers eye has been taken and still demands that he be tortured as to find out where he heard that her children were bastards, as if it wasn’t blatantly in your face that they are. Instead of Luke getting punishment (I’m not saying take his eye but this does also have something to do with a further point of mine, maybe taking his titles would have been better) the blacks get off Scott free even after starting this mess and taking a family members eye.

All that lead me onto my second point, Rhaenyra is spoiled. I know not many black fans like to see the truth but she is (I mean I saw that even her dragon is known as spoiled or smth). She’s constantly let off with a slap on the wrist because her father loves her so much he’s willing to look past everything she does, I think the perfect scene that shows this is when Viserys is telling her that Jahaerys would have disinherited her but he won’t because he holds too much love for her to do that. She acts as if she didn’t know what she did was wrong and blames everyone but herself for the outcome. Yet again when Aemond’s eye is taken by her son she gets away with it because Visery’s loves her a lot, his sons eye was just taken by her son and there’s no punishment for it 🤔. I do blame Visery’s for this because he raised her this way but it’s just a flaw of her character. She leaves Visery’s by himself for 6 years, even knowing he was ill and only came back to ask him to secure her son’s position. What kind of daughter abandons their dying father, who has shown nothing but love, and shows up only to ask him to secure her sons place even though he can hardly move and has been asked to rest? Selfish. She also expects everyone in the court to be on her side even though she’s hardly done a single thing to earn their respect. She won’t know what it’s like for Alicent who can’t refuse or go against the orders of the king like she can and just blames Alicent for being forced into a marriage.

I also feel l like if the blacks want to take a son for a son so seriously then they should have done the same for and eye for an eye.

Now don’t take this as me liking team green because I don’t, Rhaenyra would definitely be a better queen than Aegon, + I hate Aegon, I hate Otto and the others I just see a grey characters except for Helaena, she is an angel. The whole point of Hotd ,I feel, is that everyone does morally questionable things and should be seen as grey (except for the very few that are either just evil or good) and the whole reason I wrote this out is because I feel like everyone just makes the blacks the people that do no wrong, I’ve even seen people say that they’re excited for blood and cheese and excited to see this innocent child be killed and that it’s deserved when it really isn’t. If there was a punishment then Aemond wouldn’t have been so bitter.

[la-pheacienne]

Did people even watch the show?! It’s all right there people. Aemond lost his eye because he was going to kill his brother. Luce attacked him for 100% reason. And the reason Aemond was going to become a kinslayer was because from birth he’d been taught to hate, but his bitter hypocrite mother. That’s it.. even in the throne room when he is asked who told him, it’s completely clear it was Allicent. And she knows it was her.

With Helena, I actually like her. She’s the only green I will tolerate. She didn’t deserve her family. And I love AUs she ends up w the Blacks :) I’m sure this was the actress and not written, but in the coronation scene watch her (I’ve only skimmed it once tbh) But she turns her head away when her brother is crowned. I think she knows.

Agree. I have analyzed this scene multiple times and @theblackqveen has written about it too. I think we should let this one sit because it starts to get boring, Aemond was a vile little kid and he started it all. Losing his eye was bad but life sucks, if you don't want to lose an eye it would probably be best to not try to crush people's skulls and tell them that you will feed them to your dragon, I think that it is a pretty solid as a life lesson. I only pity him because it was his mother's fault, she had no business slandering the heir and poisoning her kids minds with treasonous discourse.

Yeah I like Helaena too what's not to like?

[backjustforberena]

I 100% believe Rhaenys would never approve of what was done to Helaena and her kids. Apart from the reasons you named, what Rhaenys said in the trailer tells us that she, like most of westeros, sees kinslaying as a terrible thing. I believe that's why she didn't fight for her claim to the throne (in both show and book canon). Not to mention the Targaryens back then were in much better terms with each other than Aegon and Rhaenyra; a war would've meant fighting her grandfather, her uncle (who was very close to Rhaenys's father), her cousins who were still young... Alysanne would have had to pick a side. Even if no member of the family died during the war, the victor would be forced to punish the other side in some way. When the Great Council happened Alysanne was dead which meant Rhaenys didn't have the support of any other Targ. The stability of the realm and house Targaryen would be threatened and however things turned out, the realm and history would probably remember her as a traitor/usurper. I mean Jaehaerys and Alysanne dedicated their lives to putting the realm back together after Maegor took the throne from his nephew, which also involved dragons fighting and Targs dying, Rhaenys would've known better than risking a repeat of that. In the show she probably thought Aegon and Rhaenyra would consider all this and hopefully work something out (especially after her talk with Alicent). Sadly I think that would've never happened, even without Luke's death.

Hi! Sorry for the delay in writing this, it was such a long ask that I wanted to be at my laptop to answer it and really give it some thought.

I agree with you. Rhaenys would never approve of what was done to Helaena and her children, and Alicent as well, as she was a part of it too. It's a horrible, immoral thing done to people who do not deserve it. It solves nothing, it only makes things more horrible, more ugly, more messy and more cursed.

I really like Rhaenys's line in the trailer. I love that she mentions kinslaying and, not just kinslaying, but kinslaying in conjunction with religion; with the Gods. I hope that's not all we get, I hope it's a real heart-to-heart with Rhaenys not just giving a warning, which is what she has done previously with Rhaenyra, but actively giving her advice and saying what she would do, in Rhaenyra's shoes. Or what she has done, previously, with her own claim. I think it's a very good explanation as to why she did not fight for her own claim and it'll be interesting to see if they expand on that and have Rhaenys talk about what that time was like for her - not only because it would be extremely relevant but also because it would be a really nice thing to understand her character a bit more.

I think it would be a lot messier if she had decided to fight when her uncle was declared heir over her (in the book). If Rhaenys had gone to war, there's no telling how the sides would have split. No way of saying who would be willing to fight, and therefore kill, against who would avoid it. And even the idea of who would fight on which side.

You didn't have Daemon as a dragon-rider at this point in time, but you had Alysanne, you had Jaehaerys, you had Baelon. Alysanne could do so many things: she could stay out of it, she could urge Rhaenys to reconsider and no more, she could urge Rhaenys to reconsider and fight on behalf of her husband and son and the Crown (for Rhaenys would be the "traitor"). Or else Alysanne could urge Jaehaerys to back down and do nothing else, or urge Jaehaerys to reconsider and fight on behalf of Rhaenys against her husband and her son and grandsons. That's just one person in the conflict. What would Baelon's feelings be? What would Jocelyn's be (as she is half-sister to the King, sister-in-law to Baelon, mother to Rhaenys)? All of them would be going against kin and battling for kin. It would be a total mess because they love each other.

But whilst I think that conflict would be muddier, I actually think that a fight following the Great Council would be deadlier. You don't have Jaehaerys, Alysanne or Baelon. You don't have people willing to compromise or such clear-cut factions that make it "to the death", nor do you have an empty Throne. You'd be fighting for Dragonstone and to be heir, not to be monarch. Whereas, if it were after the GC, you're fighting to be monarch. And there are only two dragon riders capable of engaging: Rhaenys and Daemon.

And we know Daemon has no issue with kinslaying, even at that point in his life, because he threatens it. He musters up a force to fight for his brother's claim and, make no mistake, if it had gone to war and he had had to fight for his brother then kinslaying would have to occur, by him. Rhaenys could spare Daemon and achieve victory. But Daemon could never spare Rhaenys to declare victory (on behalf of Viserys). And if can't spare Rhaenys then he can't spare her children either. He'd have to have Laenor and Laena dead as well in order to secure everything, not to mention crush the Velaryons.

Rhaenyra has no qualms going against Aegon because she doesn't care for him. They may as well be strangers. There's no problem with punishing Alicent or cutting off Otto's head because they don't share blood. I'm not sure how far "kinslaying" extends or what the rules are for any relations further afield than that (such as your half-niece or nephew, or your cousin who is also your half-nephew etc etc). Or the potency of the "curse" if, for example, someone else kills them but does it on your say-so. But either way, the question isn't with your own morality, but on your soul in the sight of the Gods. We call Aemond kinslayer, but Daemon is equally culpable, for he orders the death of his brother's grandson and kills his own nephew. Aegon commits it and threatens it a lot more. Rhaenys and Baela both give it a really good shot. Rhaenyra puts a bounty on her own kin, and is partially responsible for a whole host of dead kin. You get so far into war, who cares, you know? It's kill or be killed. Be a kinslayer or be killed by kin.

I think, as you say, in the show, Rhaenys still believes that war can be averted. She's seen, on both sides, a desire not to go to war. She's backing up the person on the Blacks that doesn't want war. Things are still retractable. Blood does not have to be shed, in her mind. It's idealistic, but not impossible. But, then, it becomes impossible. And, the irony is, once that war starts, she's not only the first to try to kin-slay, but the first one to be slain by kin.

[cosmic-walkers]

I’m actually very tired of both sides using Baela, Rhaena, and Laena as props for arguments. Black stans secretly hate them and wish they would just go away and Green stans hate them and try to excuse Aemond’s behavior towards them. It’s both disgusting

Rhaenyra, Daemon, AND Aemond harmed Baela and Rhaena the day of their mothers funeral

I certainly agree with this.

I lean more toward the greens (more specifically alicent and helaena) but it is not lost on me how the green side of the fandom was absoltutely vile toward the situation when Aemond beat the girls and honestly, despite what was said i don't think anything excused him hitting them like they did. And I don't agree with what he said to them, and i completely understand why they'd attack him. That was cruel to say about feeding them to their mothers dragon while they were quite literally grieving.

I don't care what Aemond did do the strong boys tho - they 100% deserved Aemond's beatings and worse. But i won't stand by while people cheer him on beating the girls and then making fun of them, especially Rhaena, for being upset and even people calling her weak because she didn't claim Vhagar? Nah a lot of green fans for out of pocket for the way they completely turned on the girls. Some people were making fun of their pain, and even drawing white washed fanart of them - it's like those were kids and they were grieving

And likewise, yes most of 'laena fans' on team black just wanted her gone to make space for Rhaenyra, that's all that was about. Like they literally only use Laena and her daughters as argument points but don't care about them outside of that. It's always 'Laena was supposed to be Rhaenyra's childhood best friend not Alicnet!' When canonically, Laena and Rhaenyra weren't even childhood friends in the books. And aside from that, it's only agian to use her in arguments. Because they never ever mention how Daemon and Rhaenyra disrespected Laena.

Team Black fans are always saying shit like "Aemond is an awful person for attacking Rhaena and Baela" and then it just stops there. No one says anything about Baela losing driftmark to Jace or whatever it was, no one says anything about Daemon ignoring/neglecting his daughters but being there for Rhaenyra's kids, no one says anything about how Baela and Rhaena are basically on their own.

So yeah, I totally agree. Both sides treat laena, rhaena and baela like shit.

[flysafepapi]

My main thought process for this was that the canonical children are still more or less the same (Rhaenyra's at least, the twins and Maelor wouldn't happen in this little universe because Aegon wouldn't be with Helaena)

Anyway, Rhaenyra's Aegon and little Viserys are around the same age as Jaehaerys and Jaehaera, I'm not exactly sure which ones are older, but they're very close in age, and when we see everyone in Driftmark, Aegon and Helaena's kids are born soon after, so he would've been the right age/able to be the father of little Aegon and Viserys in this universe. While she did have complications with Visenya, as we know, she didn't with the two boys she had with Daemon, so until Visenya, it would be fine.

Now, age difference aside, because there's also a large age difference between Rhaenyra and Daemon only in the opposite direction with him being older and not her, even if Otto and Alicent did attempt to do to Rhaenyra when she was having complications with Visenya what the maesters did to Aemma with Baelon, the whole point was that the maesters had to get Viserys' permission, both because he was her husband and because he was the king. Regardless of how much they tried, I highly doubt Aegon would've agreed to that because, for one, by that point there wouldn't have been a chance that he would take their side over hers. On top of that, even if he was able to be swayed around to that conclusion, Daemon wouldn't have let them get anywhere near that room (Obviously this is based on him actually being there instead of not going off to wherever he was show-wise)

Also, Rhaenyra doesn't deserve to be married to a canonical pedophile and child murderer either, so.

It's a funny little post, take a minute.

ngl, I hope Viserys is watching all this go down from the afterlife and realising that this all could've been avoided if he'd listened to Alicent and married Rhaenyra to Aegon as she suggested

Like I get that there's multiple reasons why he didn't. probably because that would've meant everyone would assume, as the oldest son, that Aegon would have all the power and the lords would look to him instead of Rhaenyra, which is valid they probably would've at first

But you cannot tell me that it would've ended that way. You're gonna look me in the eyes and tell me Aegon wouldn't love being the pretty kept boy to his queen and absolutely refuse to be anything but arm candy while Rhaenyra ruled? Literally all she'd have to do is give him a smidge of affection and he'd fold like a deck of cards.

Oh the lords think he should be in charge? Too bad, he's just here to drink wine and look pretty.

Everything with Harwin and, later, Daemon? Cannot tell me that not only would he not care, he'd be so down to get in the middle of that, like Rhaenyra wouldn't even need to ask, he's stripping off immediately.

The guy didn't even want to be King, but arm candy to a Queen that pegs him on a near daily basis and actually treats him well? You could not stop him from sprinting down that aisle, I will never believe otherwise

[horizon-verizon]

I found Kid!Aemond to be an inconsistent character like his mother at one point. In Driftmark, he was literally talking treason to Aegon, saying that Helaena is his future queen, which means he’s on board to usurp his other sister Rhaenyra. Then a few moments later, he walks up to Jace and smiles at him like he wants to comfort him but then decides against it because he knows comforting him for his real father’s death means admitting that he knows he’s a bastard.

Why would Aemond, who agrees with the plot to usurp Rhaenyra, be smiling at his nephew, the child of Rhaenyra and future king? Aemond is clever for a kid. He must know that usurping Rhaenyra would likely mean killing her and all her kids to secure Aegon’s rule. So why did he try to be nice to Jace? Am I overthinking this?

No, you are not overthinking, anon. I actually had to go back to watch the episode again to see what you meant.

At the mark 10:30, Jacaerys is standing in the far left of the screen while Aemond approaches him and attempts to smile/speak to him. Jacaerys is unreceptive and Aemond turns away as if he did want to comfort Jacaerys. This is all a silent exchange and happens after Jace comforts Daemon’s daughters and Rhaenys hugs them.

Yet in the same episode, Aemond and Aegon say not long before Aemond goes to Jacaerys:

Aegon: We have nothing in common.

Aemond: She’s our sister.

Aegon: You marry her, then.

Aemond: I would perform my duty, if mother had only betrothed us.

Aegon: If only.

Aemond: It would strengthen the family. Keep our Valyrian blood pure.

Aegon: She’s an idiot.

Aemond: She’s your future queen.

They talk as if Aegon will become king, which means that Rhaenyra will not become queen. Which can only happen if they usurp her. 

And in the event they usurp her--by real history, how transfers of power happen in real ASoIaF Westeros (Robert Baratheon, Maegor I)--there is both a real and high chance that they would have to kill her if they pursue the throne for themselves since she has had Viserys’ command to be the heir and the oaths other lords took to protect her rights.

Who has told them Aegon would become king despite Viserys’ ruling? Or where did they even get this confidence? Alicent and Otto. Ever since Alicent turned against Rhaenyra 10 years ago. 

Aegon would be 14-16 in this episode, Helaena a year younger. That means Aemond is 12-13 right now. Alicent, back in episode 6, grabbed Aegon’s face and yelled at him that “you [Aegon] are the challenge, just by living and breathing”. 

The show admitted/told us that Alicent has been telling her kids-- practically since birth-- that they had to usurp Rhaenyra both to survive and because Alicent/Otto/"custom” believes she herself is unfit. And the other ideas being she’s a whore who gave birth to bastard children.

And because they are bastards who do not deserve pity or respect (the Faith of the Seven rules bastards inherently evil and untrustworthy). Which is blood purity.

This show’s writing and its overall story and its characterizations make no sense. 

If Aemond, as you said, has learned this AND has accepted the scenario of usurping/killing Rhaenyra plus her son’s deaths...then why does he still try to approach Jacaerys as if he genuinely wants to be close or friendly?!

If a person does this and thinks what I described in real life, we’d say this person is delusional (as Pearl form the movie Pearl who couldn’t keep her lies straight) and/or totally unaware of their own contradictoriness. And we can't pass it off as "imaginary writing and fantasy" because this sort of contradiction is self-erasing. It's as if you had had a continuous forgetting of who you are and what you value. As if you became a different person entirely in ten seconds, then switched back.