#adult jonsa

[ymaohoh]

book inspired jonsa Sansa Stark & Jon Snow by braydenjaselle

[bee-a-garbage-shipper]

Game Of Thrones Fanfiction List

Bequeathed from Pale Estates By Author376

In a Westeros where Soulmates are bound and Marked by the Gods to bind Houses together and pay blood debts, Lyarra Snow and Oberyn Martell are about to get a shock…

Winter Thorns of Highgarden (FF | AO3) By Madrigal_in_training (FF | AO3)

The knight's supposed to save the princess from the dragon but here, the princess is a dragon, the knight is a bookish lord, and the greatest threat is either the old lady in the blue wimple or the honorable warden with the Ice sword. Because no one thought a second Stark girl would be kidnapped for marriage or that the sensible Willas Tyrell would be the one to kidnap her.

Incandescent (FF | AO3) By Madrigal_in_training (FF | AO3)

In a moment of grief-stricken madness, Catelyn Stark attempts to murder her husband’s bastard. Yet her entire worldview shatters when Lyarra Snow refuses to burn. Fem!Jon, Lyarra x Robb

A Golden Age By margotdavid (FF | AO3)

At her father's request, Alysanne calls the banners and marches south. For what reason, she is not sure, but as she meets the lions on the field, Alysanne finds that she was more fire in her blood than she though. Tywin Lannister is seeing his house crumble to the ground because of his daughter. Worse, a wild girl just defeated his army. But when the face of Rhaella Targaryen appears in front of him, he makes a gamble that might just save his legacy.

A Song of Vengeance (AWOIAF | GOT | AO3) By IWantColouredRain (FF | AO3)

15 years ago, the Targaryens were forced into exile by the rebel alliance of the West-Stormlands-Vale-Riverlands... and Dorne. To ensure the loyalty of the hostile North, Aly Stark was wed to King Robert's closest friend, Oberyn Martell. Now, after 15 years, the wolves and dragons' pieces are in place, and they will have revenge. (Role Reversal.) Martell Centric. Hiatus

A Song of Marked Souls (AWOIAF | GOT | AO3) By IWantColouredRain (FF | AO3)

In a world where magic remains strong and the Old Gods keep active in the lives of their followers, Alyssa Snow and Oberyn Martell bear Marks that, according to the ancient gods that lurk in the weir woods, destine them for greatness. (Fem!Jon Snow. Not for Tully fans. OOC!Characters)

Princess of Wolves, Prince of Snakes (AWOIAF | GOT | AO3) By IWantColouredRain (FF | AO3)

After the Lions' coup, Aegon VI flees with his wife, mother, uncle and cousins in search of allies and safety in order to regain his throne. But there is only one place to go: The Winterlands, the only part of Westeros to remain independent of the Iron Throne. Hiatus until summer

The Star of the North (AWOIAF | GOT | AO3) By IWantColouredRain (FF | AO3)

Just when Lady Alarra Stark feels she has no escape other than death, she finds another option in the form of a Dornish viper and his elegant paramour.

There and Back Again (FF | AO3) By Naerys Blackfyre (FF | AO3)

After the events of season 8, Jon of House Targaryen is sent back in time to fulfill his destiny as the prince that was promised. Jonsa, Gendyra, RhaeLya, Anti-Dany, Dany fans beware. AU! NOT ANYTHING LIKE CANON!

Father of Dragons (FF | AO3) By Naerys Blackfyre (FF | AO3)

"How did you know of this chest Sam?" Jon's eyebrows were drawn together in a frown. "Hummm…oh uh well Maester Aemon told me to give this chest to you when he died. He said that you would most likely be in need of them." Sam answers with a shrug. Jon stared at Sam with a frown painted on this face. What could Maester Aemon possibly wanted to give him? Jonsa, Gendrya, Braime, RhaeEliaLya, Anti-Dany

Lost Girl By prussianblues

She leaves the Seven Kingdoms a bastard and returns a queen.

Or, Joanna Snow is in King’s Landing when Cersei seizes the city, and Varys sneaks her out to meet her brother. A meddling Magister later, she meets Daenerys as well.

A story told in drabbles.

To Go Forward By togo

Jon Snow wakes up in Winterfell, two years in the past. He struggles with his knowledge of the upcoming wars, the mystery of his mother's forgotten letters, and the prophecy of the Prince That Was Promised. How much time does he have until the Others invade Westeros?

A Second Time Around By ratclanqueen

"I know this is hard for you to understand but we have already lived this life once. The Gods are blessing us. I saw this before the Night King broke through the Wall. We have been reborn into our bodies before Jon Arryn's murder with our memories and knowledge of what could possibly lie ahead," Bran told them.

When all of House Stark wake up one morning with their deaths being their clearest memories, the wheel begins to turn. The game has a new player in the form of Sansa Stark, the Red Wolf of Winterfell and the Queen in the North before her death, who is determined to see her family grow old and happy in Winterfell and the Iron Throne melted to a puddle of metal at her feet.

Dragons of Red, Dragons of White By NightDrake

After the Duel on the Trident, there are ramifications that none could foresee. In the world built afterwards, dragons once again rule and roam Westeros, among them the son of a northern beauty and the king. Prince Jon and his kin, Stark and Targaryen alike, face new challenges from both without and within. Whatever the future holds, the Seven Kingdoms will learn that, whether in a coat of red or a coat of white, a dragon still has claws.

Manners and Misunderstandings By mostlyclouds

The Stark sisters have travelled all the way to London to begin their first season, leaving behind the familiar world of Winterfell Hall and a disappointed Jon Stark- with whom the eldest Miss Stark has been convinced to break off a connection. In London they join family friends the Baratheons and the fashionable young Tyrells in a world of romance and balls.

Meanwhile Gendry Waters has been plucked out of the life he knew to become his ailing father's heir, Robb, Theon and later Rickon embark on military careers in the Napoleonic wars, and their aunt Lysa makes a foolish marriage.

When tragedy hits the family, they must come together, learning how manners may hide monsters and the best people are often those misunderstood by society.

The Conquest By DolorousEdditor

An AU of grand scale inspired by a prompt by Oblongata.

Three hundred years after Aegon the Conqueror built a new empire on the ashes of the Valyrian Freehold the known world is a place of war. The Targaryen Empire is pressed by enemies, the Seven Kingdoms war amongst themselves and forces contrive to pull them all apart.

Amidst all this are a prince and princess who fear themselves ruined by the horrors they've endured. Together they might be the hope their people are looking for. More importantly, they might be the dream both abandoned long ago.

A Caged Songbird By bikadoo

“I will be a silent, and dutiful wife,” Sansa spits. “I will be their pretty little songbird, and wear their ugly crown, and sit on their painful throne. I shall give him a babe, and my love, and I will wait until he thinks that he has won. And then I shall take his life."

Shae goes still. "You ... you plan to kill the King?"

"No," Sansa says. "I plan to kill my husband."

A Knight's Watch By DolorousEdditor

Jon Snow is forbidden to take the black by his father. Instead he sent to squire for a famous knight, beginning a long arduous journey that causes him to cross paths with characters he never would have. Along the way he learns truths long hidden and discovers love in the most unlikely of places.

All of this in the shadow of the War of Five Kings and the coming of the Others.

[agentrouka-blog]

Hello, Rouka!

I was thinking "Wow, so much smut and explicit sexual content in the ASOIAF books so far" and then I had this:

There is a big chance we could have a Jonsa Smut Scene written by GRRM. Because we have to. We need it. If Pol!Jon or something like that happens between Jon and the Fav Queen in the books... there is no way we will have that and not Jon with his Sweet Lady! We had Ned and Cat mentions, more Jaime and Cersei than we want, some explicit... things we don't want to mention... We Must to clean our mind with the happy couple at the end of the story!

I'm not sure I would describe anything in the book series as "smut" in the sense of sex scenes meant to be erotic in nature. GRRM is writing sex scenes as another angle of character exploration and in most cases these scenes are intentionally off-putting in some way in order to break immersion and get the reader to focus on why things are happening as they are. That's why some people say GRRM is bad at writing sex scenes when really they are probably conditioned to expect sex scenes to be emotionally stimulating rather than analytically stimulating.

In this vein, it's entirely possible that GRRM will explore Jon and Sansa's relationship through how they approach sex with each other, same as he explored the characters in sexual contexts with other people (all abusive in their own way). But I doubt it would be "smutty" so much as insightful. I also doubt it would be terribly explicit because neither POV character is prone to describing sexual things without inhibition.

I'm not saying GRRM would write it to be off-putting, but we should really adjust our expectations. This won't be adult-rating AO3 content. This will be GRRM letting two teenagers who survived sexual abuse and trauma discover mutual love and sexual autonomy in an age appropriate (i.e. slightly awkward, possibly clumsy, nevertheless excited) way together. In brief glimpses and veiled descriptions. These are kids.

[esther-dot]

The debate about the appropriateness of Jonsa overshadows the political/feudal argument. Unless you can make a convincing case Sansa is going to run away and become a peasant with Sandor (didn't GRRM literally mock that...), or that she can singlehandedly Elizabeth the first it, then you need to be thinking about marriage. Marriage is just as important as war in GRRM's books, if not moreso, and it's a symbolic struggle at that.

Of course Stumpy has searched for Sansa's husband and applied this thinking, but it's one that's otherwise severely lacking. GRRM would go there. We know he'd go there, cousins or not. The question is, why?

Stumpy's Find Sansa's Husband is one of my favs!

No worries! Each of us has a fandom pet peeve we need to rant about. And you're right about Martin's criticism of the "running off with a stable boy trope," in fact, it sounds like the idea really annoys him (his quote below the cut)

And then there are some things that are just don’t square with history. In some sense I’m trying to respond to that. [For example] the arranged marriage, which you see constantly in the historical fiction and television show, almost always when there’s an arranged marriage, the girl doesn’t want it and rejects it and she runs off with the stable boy instead. This never fucking happened. It just didn’t. There were thousands, tens of thousand, perhaps hundreds of thousands of arranged marriages in the nobility through the thousand years of Middle Ages and people went through with them. That’s how you did it. It wasn’t questioned. Yeah, occasionally you would want someone else, but you wouldn’t run off with the stable boy. And that’s another of my pet peeves about fantasies. The bad authors adopt the class structures of the Middle Ages; where you had the royalty and then you had the nobility and you had the merchant class and then you have the peasants and so forth. But they don’t’ seem to realize what it actually meant. They have scenes where the spunky peasant girl tells off the pretty prince. The pretty prince would have raped the spunky peasant girl. He would have put her in the stocks and then had garbage thrown at her. You know. I mean, the class structures in places like this had teeth. They had consequences. And people were brought up from their childhood to know their place and to know that duties of their class and the privileges of their class. It was always a source of friction when someone got outside of that thing. And I tried to reflect that.

I think the issue is, S*nsans and people who shipped Sansa with LF were some of the first to write real meta on her (from what I've heard), so certain fans/perceptions got pretty firmly established, and then a new generation of Sansa fan came along who rejected the Sansa x adult man/molester ships, but it was pretty easy for them to assume that due to Sansa's age, Martin would leave her marriage to the future.

Also, a lot of people don't expect Sansa to be QitN, so the succession issue isn't putting pressure on the marriage timeline, and if you're someone who thinks Bran will actually be king over all Westeros or Rickon will be KitN etc etc, you can imagine Sansa's endgame is safety in Winterfell, not a romance or marriage.

Personally, I think Sansa's interactions with Cersei and LF indicate that she wants to be the right kind of queen (in defiance of Cersei's advice) and is being equipped with tools to achieve her own ends / play the game, for the right reasons, to good ends, but being handed tools nonetheless. She is so unfocused on her birthright and power, it seemed like she was meant to be contrasted with Cersei and Dany. The natural endpoint of that imo would be her becoming queen. And, if she is queen, I've argued that based on other queen's experiences, we must see her married as being a queen is a whole new set of risks, not a happy ending in and of itself.

Of course, some have speculated that the endgame will be indicated, not actually chronicled on the page, as in, Jon and Sansa fall in love, but Jon does get sent to the wall or goes into exile for a callback of what Sansa imagined she could do to save Ned, and we end kinda knowing, eventually they'll get back together, but the actual happy ending isn't on the page. Or the alternative scenario is that Jon is named KitN because of Robb's Will and marries Sansa to resolve all the chaos after parentage reveal. That's where your thoughts on the political aspect of marriage comes in because that would be very tidy. Actually, whoever is recognized by the Northern Lords, whether it’s my preference of Sansa or Jon, the heir issue was a big deal for Robb, so marriage / heirs will certainly come up and impact the plot.

As for Jonsa itself and it being icky to some, I've said before, I think Martin must have something he wants to do with incest beyond showcasing how toxic it is. As in, that is not a way to challenge the reader, by saying something we all know, and his whole shtick is to write complexity into every relationship, every hero, even many villains, so I don't for a minute believe that's he's introduced this topic without planning to ask the audience to think a little more deeply on it. To force us to look at it from a different angle. The way he does that is to give us heroes who are tempted and make us squirm until we get parentage reveal.

[g0lightly]

not to pick on j*nsas again but i think the fan community around that ship (due to its size) highlights some interesting double standards within asoiaf shipper discourse. i often see j*nsa "proof" that revolves around jon chapters following sansa chapters. they're both ned's kids, so of course they're connected thematically. characters having thematic connections in ASOIAF is not proof of anything but good writing and i think it's healthy for us shippers to remind ourselves of that every now and then, no matter what we ship.

by that standard, brienne and sansa having back-to-back chapters twice in AFFC is briensa proof! i have seen it argued that jon and sansa's chapters being put together in ASOS show that sansa wants a hero and jon is that hero. actually, brienne is the hero trying to find and help sansa, not jon. that is how she spends her chapters in AFFC! but she's not a broody conventionally attractive man and that's why i am one of only like two people actively making brienne/sansa content while jonsa is super popular despite being kind of OOC (in my opinion) and largely based on the fact that kit harrington used two facial expressions as jon snow which led people to read their familial chemistry as romantic chemistry (also in my opinion).

even though i would love nothing more than for brienne to be like the robert dudley to sansa's queen elizabeth i when they're both adults, i recognize that the possibility of having sansa's true love and true knight turn out to be a scarred woman who prefers mail to silk will not the most important thing about their relationship when they do meet. because thematic connections =/= proof of anything ship related. especially in a series where a ton of people die and marriage is political.

if you like underrated ships and happen to be curious about the thematic potential of brienne/sansa, i am almost 70k words into a postcanon longfic about them :) canon compliant except sansa is aged up to be robb's twin. perhaps you will agree that it is a rarepair with no business being so rare!

[bee-a-garbage-shipper]

FFNet | AO3

Father of Dragons By Naerys Blackfyre

FFNet [https://www.fanfiction.net/s/13361968/1/] and AO3 [https://archiveofourown.org/works/19771888/chapters/46804975]

Jonsa, Gendrya, Braime, and RhaEliAnna [Rhaegar x Elia x Lyanna]

"How did you know of this chest Sam?" Jon s eyebrows were drawn together in a frown.

"Hummm…oh uh well Maester Aemon told me to give this chest to you when he died. He said that you would most likely be in need of them." Sam answers with a shrug.

Jon stared at Sam with a frown painted on this face. What could Maester Aemon possibly wanted to give him.

Jonsa, Anti-Dany

This is the true ending of GOT and I can't recommend it enough.

!!!!!

[cellsshapedlikestars]

I got really emptionally attached to one of the chapters in your Ephemera collection (switched at birth). You likely wont ever explore that world but do you have some thoughts on where the characters end up in the future? I like to think that the Starks try a little harder to make Sansa feel welcome (or at least Catelyn and Bran might) and that her and Alayne will bond a little but then realistically they would never really be as close as they could have been. How would they react if something were to happen between Sansa and Jon?

big fan of all of your btw. Haven't thought about Jonsa since 2016 but now they're stuck in my brain.

I'm glad you liked it, anon! Unfortunately you're right, I can't see myself ever continuing that particular one shot.

I do think Sansa will never be as close to her siblings as she'd maybe like. Especially since Catelyn would be trying pretty hard to bond with Sansa, and a bunch of teenagers (which I'm pretty sure the kids were in that story) might see that as a sort of betrayal to Alayne, even though it's not. I think later in life, as adults, they'd be more understanding and better equipped to handle that sort of news.

Her getting with Jon would probably also cause some weirdness, because the Starks would see him as their brother, but Sansa wouldn't in the slightest. It could either solidify that Sansa isn't actually part of the family, or cause resentment over Jon "choosing" Sansa. Just sort of all around it would be messy, and I don't honestly think there's a super happy ending in there, which I think is why I don't have any desire to continue it

[jackoshadows]

I think most Jonsas looked around and were displeased with the guys GRRM wrote as potential partners for their fave so they landed on Jon because he is one of the few young, completely able-bodied and possibly attractive male characters around and he is not a jerk like Harrold or cruel like Joff. That's it.

Details like whether they give a sh*t about each other or if they are each other type's were completely ignored.

Fanfiction and AUs exist for a reason. If Sansa fans don't like her canonical story and relationships they can dabble in fanfiction. That's the purpose of fanfiction. Some of the most popular relationships in fandom are not canon. Not being canon has never stopped anyone. Personally, I find Jonsa to be bland and boring but go for it. People like what they like. Write all the fanfiction and draw all the fanart between the stereotypical disney princess and hot secret prince. That's never been the problem.

The problem is their insistence that Jonsa is canon, work backwards from there, mutilate and mangle the book characters, themes and relationships to shove Jonsa in there. And when this is pointed out, gaslight and attack book readers for being sexist haters of Sansa. It's tiresome.

Hence why we get utter idiocy about how Sansa was traumatized and bitter about Ned's favoritism towards Arya and yet Jon loves Sansa so much it's simply too painful for him to even think of her 😂

Jon Snow needs an entirely new personality and completely different story for Jonsa to happen and so we are stuck with a shallow, Littlefinger type who has a crush on the bully who mocks Arya for being ugly and horsefaced 🙄.

The issue with Jonsa shippers are their sexist, classist tirades on the tags against Dany, Arya, Jon etc. for daring to be tier one main characters with well defined central plots and complex themes that revolve around them, where the author has painstakingly written in relationships and leadership arcs for them, given them conflict and critical thinking skills and build this world of secondary characters to support these main characters.

Sansa fans read Jon's political intelligence and diplomacy, Arya's arc of being unable to fit, discovering her place in the world, her relationship with her father, the North and her siblings, the Lyanna parallels, Dany's revolutionary Queen getting the love of the people and want all that for Sansa. Hence the essays about how Jon and Dany are terrible rulers, how it's Sansa who was the outsider and outcast (Ned's so called favoritism is all about this).

The popular Sansa in fandom now is a self insert, a mish-mash of other characters and made up headcanons. Her most popular ship is a crackship, her relationships with Jon, Arya, Ned etc. has been rewritten. She is perennially a victim, has no agency. Right from Jon I AGoT, Sansa is an abuse victim. (All the while blaming Dany for not stopping the Khalasar's rape under Drogo!).

The fandom dichotomy when it comes to Sansa Stark is the insistence that only she be read like a realistic 11/12 year old and treated like a little child with respect to all her actions and yet she is also the most shipped character of the series!

As per fandom, Sansa is a little child who cannot understand when adults tell her a situation is dangerous or a drug is dangerous and yet she is also shipped romantically with a 27 year old adult who falls for this child. A child when it comes to her thoughts and actions, an adult when it comes to romance, love, marriage and babies.

Often someone will mention how much they love Sansa because she’s just so realistic, implying all the other characters are not realistic for their age.

And yet while we get called ‘pedophiles’ and perverts for shipping fictional children, fictional incest with age gaps etc. these same folks who appreciate realistic child Sansa will be shipping her with with Sandor Clegane, Jon Snow, Gendry, Willas, Jaime, Tyrion, Young Griff, Stannis, Littlefinger, Daenerys, Arondir, Rand, Harry Hardyng, Tom, Dick, reader etc.  

If Sansa is truly this naive and childlike, unable to understand when the physician is straight up telling her a drug is harmful and dangerous for a sick little boy suffering from epileptic seizures, why are the same readers treating her as being old enough to fall in love and have a romance arc?

Many of these Sansa stans have not read the books. They are fixated on a made up version, confront others based on this made up version. When we then ask for the book quotes they throw a hissy fit, block us, delete/change their blog name and then write essays about the evil Arya/Dany fans lol.

[alaynestcnes]

delulu jonsas living their best life interpreting the text as grrm intended free of any abuser/abused dynamics, child/adult age gaps or eugenic blood purity bs

[writergirl2011]

Can I genuinely ask why you do bother with arguing with people that simply don't ship the same things you do? You're not going to talk them into seeing things your way. They read the same books you did, and in this latest case, something left them uncomfortable. Whether they're "right" or "wrong", they're allowed to exist on the internet not shipping JB and even thinking the Lannisters are creeps. Like. What skin is it off your ass if they don't like JB?

Hello, and thank you for the ask. I presume you’re here from the Jonsa fandom asking because of my little dust-up with someone in your neck of the woods. I generally don’t care what people ship, what they think of my favorite characters, or what they think of my ship. Ship and let ship is generally my motto.

What I care about is reading comprehension, and in this case, the complete lack of it. I get that ten different people can read ASOIAF and get ten different things out of it; however, when you deliberately go cherry picking words looking for a connection to prove a point that isn’t there, I’m going to call your ass out on it. I didn’t say anything about what that original commenter’s chosen highlighted word was—the word being “child”—but I will now, because they wanted to make it look like both Jaime and Tyrion were pedophiles. While she is younger than Jaime by more than a decade, Brienne is an ADULT. In the Westeros world, in today’s world, she is an adult. Jaime calling her “an absurd, ugly child” doesn’t mean he’s attracted to a literal child. He’s acknowledging that she’s younger than him, nothing more. But that’s not the context that the original poster meant in comparing it to a scene in which Sansa, an ACTUAL child, is naked before her adult husband and is clearly uncomfortable by it (and terrified). That was part of my issue, and perhaps that’s what I should have addressed more than whether Brienne was uncomfortable in front of Jaime when they were naked together.

The other part of my issue is the one that I addressed—that they said Sansa’s situation was better understood because she had a POV to address her discomfort being naked in front of Tyrion, while Brienne’s was ignored, allowing fandom to romanticize the scene. I merely pointed out—bringing in that pesky reading comprehension thing that seems to elude so many—that Brienne does have a POV, and she’s quite clear about how she viewed it. If she’d been uncomfortable, her POV would’ve reflected it. What did we get? The opposite. She remembered it in quite romantic terms, and not because, as the response I got tried to claim, it was her way of dealing with some traumatic event. Nothing traumatic happened to her in the bathhouse. Was she shy about being naked in front of Jaime? Sure, but when those guards (and Qyburn) came back in after Jaime fainted, she didn’t go reaching for the towel right away, so she got over the shyness.

[kingsansa]

out of all your fics, which Jon and Sansa would be the best parents (together)?

I feel like Bee Stung has to be at the top, they're already being perfect parents together.

Pinky Promise Jonsa (self explanatory.) and Illegally Yours Jonsa (literally committing fraud. Also the entirety of the story takes place in the span of a WEEK. Now they're fully in love. Not a stable environment for a child!!) are battling for the lowest place.

Wolfsong Jonsa have a child and his name is Rickon and it's not going well.

I mean for all of their relationship problems one thing you can’t say about pp Jon and sansa is that they aren’t dedicated parents! But they’re young so I wouldn’t rank them at number one. Bee stung wouldn’t be my number one either just because sansa isn’t a parent yet. He’s only three years older than her but the maturity gap between them is a little daunting. He’s a parent and he’s been a parent for awhile. Sansa is 23 and just got out of college and is still learning what it’s like to be an actual adult. I think it would take them a couple years to get to a place where the dynamic between the three of them is set in stone.

I think I’d say igf Jon and Sansa would be the best parents. Whenever I’m writing them, it’s always with that endgame in mind (obviously, they’re based off Martha and Thomas Wayne) so I love to think of them as the regal, well respected, and overprotective parents of a little boy named Brandon who does NOT lose his parents and become a vigilante, but tries his best to take care of his siblings and follow in his father’s footsteps

[long-claw]

⚠️this is anti jonsa and jonrya if you don't want to read please just don't i'm not interested in arguing⚠️

so i mostly just try and avoid jonsa and jonrya posts cause i'm not a fan but ultimately i agree with letting people ship what they want, and for the most part it's not harming anyone and i just hope that the shippers don't have siblings lmao

but i just need to rant for a sec because why do so many jonsa and jonrya shippers want it to be canon in the books?? and are convinced one or the other will be canon in the books? because, like, that would make jon (a character the shippers presumably like) a canon pedo!

setting aside the incest (which is hard but clearly a lost cause) i can understand aus and that by the end of the show sophie turner and maisie williams were adults but in the books sansa's 13 and arya's 11, whereas jon's 17! which, in my books, would make him a nonce 😭

like i get it's a different time and god knows how much of this fandom just don't care about adults being with literal children but i love jon and he's already canonically fucked his aunt in the show so i'd really also rather he doesn't fuck his literal child sisters/cousins, is that too much to ask people to not campaign for?

not to mention it's not just any 13 and 11 year olds but ones he watched grow up and as someone with a 14 year old sister i can't even wrap my head around her being a teenager, like she's fully still a baby to me, so it's just so weird to me.

anyway just a bit of a mean thing to wish upon a pretty morally sound character... at least in the context of asoiaf. grrm please don't move jon to the same category as the likes of tyrion, drogo and jorah 🙏

[atopvisenyashill]

What are your thoughts on jon/arya as a romantic ship?

short answer is it’s just not my thing

longer answer is

the thing about me is that i don’t actually like reading about incest unless it’s fucked up, and those two are simply two healthily loving to be the sort of incest i go for. and the age gap is a lot for me. i know i sound ridiculous saying this bc i ship a lot of incest & a lot of age gaps but like. i like targs bc they’re all fucking bonkers twisted & they have cool magical powers lmao. i don’t care that much about cersei/jaime as a unit (they’re boring to Me. i see the appeal i just don’t care) despite being very fond of both of them separately. the jonsa of my mind trauma bonds & are then separated forever (i Am a sad ending jonsa truther i’m sorry @ all the happy ending jonsas following me), and i think it’s weird that tywin and rickard both married their cousins and i also think it’s weird that fdr & eleanor had the same last name before marrying as well! i have no reason for this beyond “it squicks me out when incest is healthy” like i’m fine with it being ~sexy~ and even romantic but i need some level of psychosexual trauma or i don’t want it. jon & arya are just too much like normal siblings for me to ship them. i feel the same about every other starkling ship except *sort of* jon/robb but i have to be in a really specific mood for that. and the age gap is like - the only “healthy” age gap i like is braime and they are both fully adults by our standards and theirs when they meet. all the others involve some level of grooming and i fully admit to that, and jonrya have such an age gap where that can Only be grooming in that situation and that’s just not their dynamic - to me the whole point of their dynamic is that they have this perfect, unsullied relationship to think on when the world gets horrible and that when they meet they will be so fundamentally different but that love and that bond will remain the same. you can’t really have that if jon is lusting after his barely adolescent traumatized sister.

the great thing about jon and arya is that they are so well written as a sibling unit that i am incapable of shipping them bc they remind me too much of me and my siblings. same for sansa/arya and all the focus the starklings have on robb.

[agentrouka-blog]

"Sansa had never had much of a head for figures. If she did marry Prince Joff, Arya hoped for his sake that he had a good steward." - AGOT, Arya I this passage comes right after arya talks about jeyne's namecalling, so i always took it as foreshadowing that jeyne will someday become sansa's steward, as her father was to sansa's father. but it occurs to me it could also be jonsa foreshadowing the way the "hands of a blacksmith" quote is gendry@ foreshadowing. what do you think, rouka?

Hi there!

I had only ever made the jonsa connection before, what with Jon being made an upwardly mobile steward in the same book that states Sansa would need one.

I'd never connected the quote to Jeyne before, but since GRRM made sure to emphasize throughout AGOT (and later ADWD) that Jeyne is a steward's daughter, as opposed to any other household position, it could well apply to her too. Like Sansa, she may step into the role of her father. As you point out, that whole chapter is full of foreshadowing, so why not for Jeyne? Like Sansa, her secret dreams may yet have a future.

Her lower social position places her in a similar state of inclusion into the highest circles without being able to fully belong. Much like Theon (as a hostage) or Jon (as a bastard) or Littlefinger (as a low status ward), she is not necessarily gracious about it, and she mocks Arya for failing to meet certain standards, while enjoying privileges Jeyne could never access. Sansa herself notes Jeyne's ineligibility for a high status marriage, without being so unkind as to voice it. Jeyne's desire to belong is turned into a cruel mockery by the powerful adults forcing her into the role of Arya Stark after exploiting her in the worst way. But it's precisely Theon, the worst possible extreme iteration of her own insecurities and petty inclinations, who ends up saving her even knowing who she is. He's not saving Arya, he is saving Jeyne. Imperfect steward's daughter Jeyne.

Jeyne's journey, while worse, is very similar to Sansa's and for both the time of hidden identities is coming to an end soon. There is going to be an upward swing to agency and power.

When Sansa learns what Jeyne has been through, her status will not matter. Her voice and her witness account, on the other hand, will. (Actually... could there be a Shae parallel in there? The trial against Tyrion?) So if Sansa's journey leads to queenship, Jeyne's journey should also lead to independence and status and agency. To a true sense of belonging. And if Sansa's journey leads to love, should not Jeyne's at least invite the possibility down the line?

There is a whole soup cooking there for Jeyne Poole.

[esther-dot]

jonsa is so overhated, it’s totally fine if people don’t like the ship or whatever like that’s up to them but trying to put jonsa on the same level as s*nsan and s*nrion is really gross

Yeah, I agree that if the hatred of Jonsa is presented as a moral stance, it's hypocritical to ship Sansa with adults, especially those two as one threatened her life repeatedly and intended to rape her, the other married her while she was being held hostage by his family and had no choice but to marry one of them.

I understand that fans say "well, the Hound didn't rape her" and "Well, Tyrion didn't force her to consummate the wedding” as signs of their virtue, and I do think that Martin's interest in characters who are decried as monsters ultimately being unable to hurt Sansa is pretty great, but it's a misreading to think the idea is "actually, these guys are good!" instead of, there is power in Sansa's goodness.

A lot of those shippers will say that the hope is for it to happen post-canon, thereby sidesepping the icky "age gap" (as they like to call it), but that doesn't change the fact that these men lusted after her as a child and used her powerless situation to mistreat her—threats of violence or plotting to take her home. Remove Jonsa from the scenario, why would you wish Sansa to be stuck with either of them? How could that possibly be a good thing for her? It's all stomach turning, especially the fandom’s enjoyment of the (sometimes NSFW) fanart in which she is her canon age. I highly recommend filtering the tags.

In a historical context, cousin marriage is just not a big deal, no matter how much people clutch their pearls and pretend it’s on par with Sansa getting stuck with either of those men. If we go by Martin’s original thoughts on a fauxcest romance between Jon and a Stark girl, the conflict of the romance won’t be that one is the victim and the other the victimizer, but rather, that they both want each other and can’t act due to their own values until parentage reveal. I genuinely don’t think an unbiased person would say that’s worse than Sansa getting stuck with one of the men who abused or took advantage of her. 🤷🏻‍♀️

[rcgued]

an independent, private multimuse blog featuring characters from george rr martin's a song of ice and fire series and fire & blood. a mixture of book-based, show-based & head canon-based. as loved by cat. please note: this blog is super low activity & will be iconless.

//. RULES (MOBILE FRIENDLY BELOW) ///. MUSES BELOW ////. HEAVILY AFFILIATED WITH : @stovmborn, @winterreigned, @theyoungwclf, @scndor // @prodigum

PRIMARY : i. daemon targaryen // fire & blood. ii. jon snow // asoiaf.

SECONDARY : iii. jaime lannister // asoiaf. iv. bran stark // asoiaf.

TERTIARY : vi. rhaegar targaryen // asoiaf. vii. tyrion lannister // asoiaf.

TEST : viii. ramsay bolton // asoiaf. ix. arya stark // asoiaf.

RULES :

001. mun’s name is cat and i am 25 years old. this blog will be super low activity and very selective as i don't have much free time and like to write as a hobby! sadly threads will be dropped and replies may take days to weeks, so if that isn’t your style, i don’t think we will be compatible as writing partners.  i'm very much an adult and therefore don't feel comfortable writing with anyone under the age of  21.  if you are under 21, i’m sorry but this is not the place for you and i kindly request you do not follow as i will not follow back.

002. if we are mutuals, i am always open to plot! i generally much prefer long form writing, but i'm also always happy for asks etc as i find they are a great way to get the ball rolling.  shipping is something that, for me, requires a lot of talking and planning but i am always open to it if there is chemistry between both muns and muses.  additionally, and this is REALLY IMPORTANT PLS READ:  i do not write smut. i am not remotely interested in smut. this blog is fundamentally about exploring characters emotions & motivations. smut makes me uncomfortable and i am not willing to do it. i may do a little bit of very tame nsfw stuff (that honestly is probably safe for work) but even that is reserved for people i feel super comfortable with. if smut is what you are looking for, this is not the place to come searching for it.

additionally, i do not write incest. this includes daemeyra, jonerys & jonsa (although my jon is NOT a targ, i still do not write jonerys other than a pre-established, long running plot i have).

please do not force ships; i will hard block.

003.

there will be triggering things on this blog, as is the nature of asoiaf. i will do my best to tag them accordingly but. if things like gore, death & incest are triggering for you i suggest not following as they will be prevalent on this blog.

004.

my characters are largely hc based, as well as both book and show, meaning they will differentiate from the characters in the book/show.  i’m more than happy to interact with show only mutuals, but i ask that you bear this in mind!!

005.

I AM SELECTIVE WITH OC'S. i will only interact if oc's have a well thought out and well written bio that makes sense with my muse. i would also prefer interacting ooc first if you do have an oc.