#acowar discussion

[copypastus]

Nothing gave me more whiplash IN MY LIFE than going from acowar to acofas.

Remember when Feyre closed the chapter on her relationship with Tamlin and wished him well? Coz the Inner Circle sure keeps forgetting.

[unforgivenyunjin]

“What is the difference between Feyre having Tamlin’s kids and Feyre having Rhysand’s kids”

Choice.

She chose to have Rhysand’s son while she felt pressured to have Tamlin’s. She chose to show off her pregnancy with Nyx while she felt that she had to in the Spring Court.

A major theme in Feylins relationship in Acomaf is pressure and the role Feyre feels she needs to fulfill. If you pay attention to what she actually says you would see that she doesn’t say she never wants these things with Tamlin. It’s the right now that she’s insecure about. She doesn’t want kids right now, she doesn’t want equal power as him right now. She was in a critical mental state, having panic attacks every single night, and didn’t really have a support system. But even then she was being rushed into things she was not ready for. She was both being controlled and being pressured to make decisions she was not yet ready to make.

Thats why there is a major difference is her choosing to have Rhysand’s kids when she said she didn’t want to be a breed mare for Tamlin or choosing to show off her pregnancy when she said she didn’t want to be paraded around with Tamlin. Everything Feyre has done with Rhys when it comes to the progress of their relationship has been on her own terms. She chose when to have a child, she chose when to come into her power as High Lady, and she chose when it was time to announce her child to the world. These weren’t things pushed onto her after she’d just been tortured for 3 months and going through arguably the lowest point in her life. Think of something you enjoy doing and then think about how you would feel about that thing if you were pressured to do it or pressured to be the absolute best at it. Eventually your feelings towards that thing are going to change because it’s no longer just something you enjoy, but something that is being weighed down by the expectations of other people. It’s the same thing with Feyre and having kids.

[natureboy96]

Pro Feyre, Pro Tamlin, Pro canon, Pro Tolerance of differing opinions discussion (NOT SHIPPING)

Over the past few months that I've been in this fandom, I've become more and more critical of character actions in the texts, including Feyre. I don't care much for the lack of self reflection her character does for her actions, nor how the narrative tends to wash their hands of any real repercussions for them (at least, ones that she/ the Night Court have to face). That being said, I've been thinking a lot about the end of ACOWAR, especially in terms of people who choose not to give Tamlin any grace and hate on the parts of the fandom who do. a large part of these arguments come down to personal feelings and what happens in canon.

After the war, when all is said and done, this is what Feyre thinks and says to/about Tamlin:

Feyre does not forgive Tamlin for the pain he caused, and she doesn't actively push to be in her life (though the way she says it, she does seem to imply she would've wanted to say this in person before Tamlin left. What she does say is that she doesn't hate him anymore, and that she genuinely wants him to be well and find happiness.

The abuse that Tamlin committed on Feyre is constantly used as a blanket statement to explain why he doesn't deserve to be happy, and yet Feyre, the character who was directly affected by this abuse, states clearly that she doesn't hate him, and wants him to be happy. If the argument against Tamlin being happy is because of canon, why is this part of the canon not regarded? Is what Feyre wants no longer important because she isn't angry anymore?

Is it because other characters in the text, like Rhysand and Nesta, express anger and hatred towards Tamlin, then? Rhysand being spiteful and unable to forgive doesn't change the fact that Feyre wants him to find happiness and be better. If characters in the actual text, who have actually/directly been affected by Tamlin's actions, are able to have differing opinions on if he should find happiness, why is it so controversial that the people reading the text feel the same way?

If Feyre were a real person, made an anonymous tumblr account and posted what she said at the end of the book, that she wished for Tamlin to be happy and that she was grateful for the things he did for her, would she be called an abuse apologist for it? Would she have to explain why, even though she doesn't forgive him for the pain he caused, that she still recognizes the good that he did?

If you're projecting your own abuse onto a character in a text who has never actually done anything to you irl, why is it an issue that other people don't have the same viewpoint? Why should one person's life experience be put above another's? Just because a viewpoint is shared by a majority doesn't make a minority's experience less valid. Even if there was a single person who liked a character, that wouldn't make their experience with the text less valid than everyone else's.

By choosing to be insulting to what other people feel/believe/have experienced with this text, you're not defending anyone: all you're doing is tearing down someone else's experience because you don't feel it's valid. You don't have to agree with someone else's experience, you can viscerally dislike it even. But you can also choose not to tear people down because you don't agree with them. If you are actively insulting people for having differing opinions, calling them names and judging their actual character because of their opinions on a book,

you are being abusive!

Treat people with respect, agree to disagree if their take on the text is different than yours, and if you're genuinely triggered by people liking a fictional character, then don't interact with them.

[chairofchaos]

A Brief Commentary on Fandom History, Fandom Weeks, and How to Keep Moving Forward

Before you decide to read this, please go read this thing I wrote earlier. You need the context. Done reading? No? Do not pass go, do not collect 200 dollars, and definitely don't engage with this post. Go read it. You're done? Excellent! Please remember that I said absolutely nothing in the aforementioned post about commenting on current events. Also, this contains some swearing, in case that bugs you. Any text written in this font I'm using below the break is liable to be sarcastic (if you want clarification about something like that let me know!). Word count is about 3.8k. Shoutout to @/olderthannetfic, who wrote back to that anon who was talking about the clergy-class of Big Name Fans and said,

"Nail your theses to the door."

I think that sentiment applies here.  Kudos to you, wise fandom elder. You rock.

About the Author

To reiterate how I began my last post (linked above and for the love of all fandom, go read it), I have been involved in fandom spaces for 12 years, almost to the day. I had wonderful mentors who knew that were I left unchecked, I would fumble my way through a lot of very bad ideas about what fandom should be like. They decided out of love that if I was going to be in fandom, they were going to make me into the best little fandom child I could be.

If you do the math, I was 11 when I started getting involved. What can I say? It was a different decade and I had unrestricted internet access. Nobody was keeping me from my Harry Potter and Percy Jackson fanfics. All of this to say: I was raised here, and I'm going to scream in the living room while this house burns down around me because I'd rather be a ghost in fandom than not be in fandom at all.

I am going to say a lot of things in this post. Am I perfect? NO! Will this post hold errors? Undoubtedly. Will this post be tarnished by the inaccuracies of the resources and the biases of events recorded in secondary sources? Who knows. I'm sure some of you lived through the events I am referencing here. Your context and commentary is more than welcome. Will this help give us, the ACOTAR fandom, some context for why we all care so much? I hope so.

No, I don't actually. I have no faith in anyone, not even myself.

Thanks for that, Editorial Chaos. You're one pessimistic bitch. Oh, you're going to keep showing up in this post to annoy me, aren't you...

Yep. Back to it, Chaos.

Alright, then. Anyways, I have opinions. You have opinions. There's a 100% chance that we disagree on something. That's cool with me. So let's get to it.

Why Are We Talking About This?

Elaingate. We are here because of Elaingate, and I will not lie to you about that. You will briefly hear my thoughts on that specific issue further down the line.

To those of you who would suggest that Elaingate is over? I must disagree. 

You see, this one instance may be over, but the underlying debate continues. What should fandom look like? Who can participate, and with what content? What is allowed, and who gets to decide?

These questions have not been addressed. I am not, by any means, going to pretend to be an authority on this. I do, however, wish to contribute my many thoughts, and present some events from the history of fandom.

My hope in sharing this brief summary of notable events which shaped broader fan culture will help people newer to fandom (of all kinds) understand why something like an event which bans certain types of content, or content involving specific characters, as something to be concerned, or even angry, about.

Please consider this, my contribution to the discussion, as a form of academic inquiry with an opinion thread throughout. This is something I am throwing to the fandom for consideration. Do I get preachy? Absolutely I do. Do I stand by my thoughts? Yes. 

If you want to respond and tell me I’m dead wrong, by all means, do so. I welcome a reblog or a post in response. Let’s go back and forth, citing our sources like two exhausted researchers from different university departments, fighting over faerie smut books. I’ll eat up every second of it.

No, you won’t. You’re exhausted.

Really? Please stop.

Noooooooooooooooooo.

Are these old issues, or is this a new problem?

Welcome to the party! It's both as old as fandom itself, and as new as yesterday. ("Chaos, those can't both be true, can they?" Yes, they can!)

You see, there have always been issues within fandoms. People have disagreed about whether character A should end up with character B or character C for longer than any of us have been alive. Seriously. The Ancient Greeks were arguing about this stuff thousands and thousands of years ago. 

Source: my Greek Tragedy professor. And if you want to argue that point, you can take it up with him. He’s an ornery old German man who looked at me and told me I needed to do better on my tests in front of the entire class. I had a 98 overall, and the only grades we got were the tests.

Moving on: Dare I say, we are not special?

The real difference now is that the previously separate communities of fandom are coming together on platforms where systems for separating those branches of fandom do not exist in automatically available formats.

We face new issues because the wonderful world-wide web continues to grow wider and wider. We have more people on the internet than ever before. You interact with more people by participating in online fandom than a person would have 5-10 years ago, let alone before the internet, and that comes with new challenges.

So what, Chaos?

I'm glad you asked! On LiveJournal, you could join Communities. You can envision them as a Discord server centered around a specific ship or character. You could be automatically entered into a group of like-minded people, and never really have to interact with people who shipped Character A with Character B, if you wanted.

Another form of fanfic from the pre-internet through the early internet years of fandom days were Zines (In depth "what's that?" from Purdue University). In fandom, zines were edited, curated fanworks. They were numerous. Some were public, some were private. Some Zine editors stood up to Lucasfilm. Regardless, there was content moderation, whether by community members or by corporations themselves. We'll come back to this.

Does that mean I would never have had to interact with those evil A/B shippers when I ship B/C?

Hahahahahhahaha.

No. It doesn't. You still encountered people who disagreed with you. 

And there were slurs and threats involved. It could get real ugly.

Yeah. Be thankful we have good community guideline things on Tumblr, and a reporting process on AO3. I don't think anyone is going to try to hack your computer to get your IP address and dox you for shipping the "wrong" characters (and good grief: if you care that much or truly think that is an appropriate action, please stay far, far away from me).

You looked for the community where you fit best, and that's where you started following, and finding, and interacting. It's not all that different to what you can do here once you curate your individual experience.

Chaos, why does any of this matter? Why aren't you talking about current events?

Well, in the grand scheme of things, does anything matter?

Yes, newly-nihilistic Editorial Chaos. It really does matter.

It matters because it's our history. It's how we got here. Be grateful. As for current events, I’m not really here to give you an in-depth analysis of those, as there are other posts which do that. 

I’m here to talk about the underlying issue. To do that, we need some background. I promise you need all of this context for my proposal at the end. Feel free to skip what you already know, but please take this opportunity to learn something new today!

Why did Archive of Our Own come into being?

For my sources on this, I direct you to the original livejournal post which started it all (thank you @/astolat! You can find her on tumblr and AO3. She’s responsible for so many great things and I thank her for all of them) and the more in-depth Fanlore page on the original proposal for AO3, where you can find links to relevant issues surrounding the proposal’s creation and the result of the proposal. See? Not a nihilist, Chaos. I'm helping. Like I'm "supposed to." Ugh.

The long and short of this is that internet fanfiction communities were facing censorship from the hosting sites. LiveJournal and Fanfiction.net were getting worried about the legality and perceived morality of different kinds of fanfiction, and a new site was being created specifically to profit off of fanfiction. 

For the sake of this discussion, we are going to use the word "curation". LJ, FF.net, and others were intentionally curating the kind of content they would allow and would allow users to see and interact with, partly out of fear of lawsuits, and partly out of a desire to police morality. The cleaning processes they used to get rid of things they did not like were referred to as "purges."

In the purges, many sexually explicit fics were lost. We aren’t talking about something the average 2020s romantasy reader (that’s you, ACOTAR fan!) would necessarily shy away from. We’re largely talking about a level of explicit nature that mirrors the general content of ACOTAR. There were of course fics that were less explicit, and fics that were considerably more explicit. By my understanding, the bulk were things we now see in published work.

Many fics with LGBT natures were lost, because the crackdown on “morality” I mentioned? Yeah. That had a lot to do with LGBT issues. Others have written a lot more extensively and a lot more eloquently than I can on this subject, so I am going to leave it at that. Just know it was a very large issue, and if you want more on this feel free to do some research of your own!

So the problems were numerous. The solution was created. Now we have Archive of Our Own (AO3). (Am I saying that AO3 is perfect? No. That, like most things, is a whole other post.)

AO3 is an archive. It is a hosting site, but it went about it differently than fanfiction.net or livejournal, or most of the niche, fandom-specific sites. Very few of those actually exist anymore, but they were cool.

As an archive, AO3's role was to be a place where the fics that could not be on the other sites because of curation would go to be. Notable fics that were posted in the early days of Archive of Our Own were fics with incest (wincest started here! And don’t tell me AO3 didn’t want it because, well, the creators were the ones writing it, and yes, I have sources for that), brutal violence, and explicit sexual content, among other, much more SFW G-rated type fics. 

They all had a home on AO3, because AO3 was designed primarily for authors (see sources linked above for more). It is notably not a social media, because it is intended to store works (regardless of their content*) and not share them. (*This is mostly true. There have been some problems because of this, often in the realm of Real Person Fics, or RPF. Again, it's a whole other post, but bears repeating.)

Chaos, what on earth does that have to do with fandom [Character/Ship] Week(s)?

I'm overjoyed that you would ask me such a question! It has everything to do with it.

Since the internet has taken over as the primary fandom connector, we have seen a democratization of fandom. We no longer have Zine editors telling us what we can and cannot write. We are protected by AO3's careful non-profit model, ensuring that no one is profiting off of characters owned by other people or franchises.

It has been said that "every rule and regulation you work to enforce has been written in the blood of others." 

That is... overly dramatic.

You do remember we’re called ‘Chaos’ here, right?

Fair. Why do you insist on being so damn cheerful when you’re talking about rules written in blood?

I’m trying to keep it light, Editorial Chaos. Please just… shut up.

Fine.

AO3 exists largely because certain types of fanfiction were being excluded from fandom. People were upset at the purges. People were upset that they weren't being allowed to write work with characters being in LGBT relationships. People were upset that an LGBT fic automatically got a more severe rating than its heterosexual counterpart, just on the basis of containing LGBT content. The little purges were numerous, and there were multiple large purges as platforms decided what they would be willing to accept and what they would leave by the wayside.

Archive of Our Own changed the model. Instead of platforms moderating what they would allow, AO3 implemented a tagging system which would allow readers looking for works in the archive to filter out content they did not want, or to filter for content they did want. Instead of the filter being run by the governing body, the archive was just there. It was up to the user to decide what they would read. The user moderated for their individual preferences, instead of the Organization for Transformative Works (OTW is the governing body of AO3) deciding for an entire, diverse body of fans what they would be allowed to consume. OTW’s creators saw the blood spilled. And they used it to write new rules.

This became the standard of fandom because of its equal opportunity approach. Fandoms have the ability to self-govern, and one of the easiest and safest ways to do that is through comprehensive tagging systems.

Tumblr has an incredible tagging system. Could it be better? Sure. But you can block tags for things you don't like. You, the individual. You, the solitary person, with your own lens through which you view the world. You, who are different to anybody who has ever been, and different from anyone who will be, because no one will ever share your exact set of thoughts, words, feelings, and actions. YOU.

Essentials so far:

Hosting sites began for all fanfiction

A few hosting sites became Curated sites

Curated sites led to the creation of One Hosting Site to Rule Them All (no matter what issues that may create) AO3

The one hosting site is now the primary archive for thousands of fandoms, open to all kinds of work as long as you tag correctly

The democratization of fandom gives space for all works, and allows users to consume what they will (and avoid what they wish) via comprehensive tagging systems

So... where does that leave us?

ACOTAR is a relatively new fandom. It's boomed in the last couple of years, and that's fine. That's good. It is driven on platforms like TikTok and tumblr.

Do not tell me that the TikTok fans are worse. The grass is not burning any more on the other side of the fence than it is under your feet. And yes, the grass under your feet is burning. Look around! And this is the hellsite, after all.

Tumblr and TikTok, paired with the insane (and awesome!) number of ACOTAR fans, largely keep us apart from previously existing general fandom spaces due to algorithms driving engagement. Many ACOTAR fans are new to fandom culture. I don’t think this is a bad thing. I do think it can create problems where fans with previous fandom experience who are a part of the ACOTAR fandom will clash with fans who are new to fandom.

I think this knowledge gives us a choice. There are two types of hosting sites. Why not create two types of events? This is already happening. If we can label events as one of the two types, then it will help people find their spaces where they are the most comfortable. If we create events that are labeled as either "curated" (large amounts of moderation, limits on ships allowed, etc) or "hosted" (anything goes), then we can ensure that everybody is happy. 

She means that, by the way. She works for "peace". Ha. Imagine that. But seriously, girl…

Okay, well…

My Perspective (And Why Do People Care So Much?)

Am I truly happy with this? No.

It actually really pisses her off, actually. She won’t admit it, but I will.

I think, Editorial Chaos, that fandom benefits from Archive of Our Own type approaches, where anything goes, but you must tag comprehensively. It encourages appropriate reporting of triggering material and content not safe for minors/work. This goes for fandom spaces, but most especially fandom events, which should accept things which under the umbrella of the theme they are celebrating, regardless of the perceived morality of their content.

Maybe we can't expect all spaces to be ready for anything. We don't expect that of all people. However, saying that you are hosting an event which is open to all fans that prevents people from considering a character in a new view, such as considering a morally gray character, who is presented in canon as a protagonist, as an antagonist during their character week, or issuing guidelines which would limit an author's interpretation of characters that fit within an archetype, is not truly hosting a fandom-wide event. That's a curated event. And calling it "curated" here is not a judgment.

She seriously means that, too. In case you actually care. The Suriel knows I don’t.

An event that does not allow for truly transformative fanworks within the bounds of its established purpose (a specific ship for a ship week, or including a certain character for a character week) is not an event that is open. It is curated.

An event that is curated is not open to all fans, and should not be presented as such. I’m not going to make a judgment call and say that it is wrong. Get together with your friends and host your own week. I don’t care if you do that! I encourage it! Call it a fic trade, call it something else, but it isn’t an “open” event. It is curated.

However, I want you to keep something in mind as you curate public-facing events: Stop policing for morality. That’s going to end very poorly for us. Keep in mind that the things you are reading in ACOTAR now would have been, and are, in some places, being pulled from library shelves (if they’re getting published at all!) because of the same kinds of arguments you are making about morality. 

If you truly want more ACOTAR books, consider that, were your thoughts and opinions transposed to the real-life debate about book censorship (which isn’t really different from curation/moderation except that its issued by a corporation or government, which is an added level of intensity) by people who thought explicit sexual content didn’t belong in published books, you wouldn’t have ACOTAR at all.

An event presented as open to all fans when it is not actually open to all fans is in fact censorship, defined in the New Oxford American Dictionary (accessed via Apple) as “the suppression or prohibition of any parts of books, films, news, etc. that are considered obscene, politically unacceptable, or a threat to security.” 

Despite that, if this move to identifying events as either “open” or “curated” is what we need to get through this, then so be it. So be it. I'll be disappointed, and I'll be frustrated. And, so help me, I'll be angry. I will. I will not lie to you about that, but I will deal with it.

I love the “don’t like, don’t read” aspect of fandom. I like extensive, comprehensive, and sometimes-even-silly tagging. I like exploring things that I may not like, and then deciding “this just isn’t for me.” I like blocking tags!

More than that, though? I am tired of the fighting. I am so damn tired of it, guys. We have to do better. We seriously do. 

(Under 18s, and frankly, even 18-25s like myself, I’m just going to say one thing to directly to you, in case you are here. If you only take one point away from this post: Please learn to be nice to each other when you disagree. You, me, and our generations are notoriously bad at that. These people can be some of your best friends. Read that post I linked at the top for more details on good old human decency on public facing platforms. Complain to each other in DMs here or on Discord. Go outside and scream when you are frustrated, if you must. You’ll thank yourself one day, I promise.)

We are not treating each other with basic human dignity. We are not treating people like people. We also are not doing a good job of simply moving away from things that upset us at an individual level. We cannot expect to only see things we agree with. What we can do is acknowledge that our emotions are our responsibility. 

Community spaces do not need to be moderated for your enjoyment. If you are a part of a community space intended to be enjoyed with moderation like Reddit or some Facebook groups, great! If you are a part of a large group of people on a public platform like Tumblr, or in some type of semi-open community space like an open Facebook group or Discord server with a ton of people and expect to only see things you agree with or never encounter criticism, tough. 

Learn to accept criticisms of ideas you agree with. You don’t have to accept the criticism itself. You do have to accept that people are going to have thoughts you may not agree with, and that you will see them from time to time no matter how well you think you have blocked and closed off your experience to fit your tastes. (There is a big difference between appropriate criticism in the general environment and direct vitriolic hatred, which I decried in the post you should have read before starting. Which is why Editorial Chaos insisted you started there, to be clear.)

It’s exhausting to pretend like things are fine.

The grass is burning, remember? We’re all on this hellsite together.

So take from this post what you will. Consider my proposal for two kinds of fandom events. Ask questions, if you wish. Send me your thoughts. 

Just remember I’ll be the one answering cruel ones. Keep it together, folks. I was raised well, but I’ve got Nesta’s tongue and years of therapy to prove it.

I wish you all well. I truly do. I hope you learned something, or were able to consider something in a new light. I hope you find it helpful. 

All my best,

Chaos

Hey. Can I go, too?

Yeah, dude. Go to bed. It’s like… 3 AM and you’ve been obsessively working on this for days. How many research papers on censorship in fan controlled spaces did you-

Shut up, Chaos. At least we’re done now. Finally. Peace, y’all. <3 (not really), Editorial Chaos

xxx

One final note from my last editing round of this piece: I truly did spend days researching these topics, and reading thoughts from various points of view here on tumblr. I hope having the back and forth from "Chaos" to "Editorial Chaos" was entertaining rather than distracting. I hope some part of you enjoyed reading this. I truly do.

The first draft of this post was written not long after the Elaingate hashtag was created. It was a lot shorter. It was a lot meaner. It was a lot more discombobulated. I hope, despite the length and the occasional rudeness, that you have been able to learn something new, or consider a new perspective.

This subject matters a lot to me. In my state, we are fighting book bans left and right, and have been for a few years now. I recognize a lot of the statements I have seen here on tumblr from that very fight, and it makes it incredibly personal to me.

Thank you for understanding that for me, and many others around the globe who face much stricter regulations than those proposed in my district, this is more than a debate about morality and censorship in fanfiction. It is about addressing a pattern of thought that has real world consequences in our neighborhoods.

Thank you for reading this. Thank you for your kindness. I look forward to hearing your thoughts.

And in case anyone is curious? Editorial Chaos is the bitch who edits all my fanfictions. Yes, really. She has her own brain (/kidding!). And she's so mean to me. All the time. (/true.)

[jayf-art]

There's something so dangerous about the way y'all view sisterhood/family dynamics, and its giving only child/youngest behavior smh

The side eye i give Everytime i see a Nesta hate post is...enough to give me a headache tbh.

Siblings are mean. My (ftm, he/they) brother hated my half of their life, but you know what happened?..We grew up! That's it! We grew up, and both matured to a point we can have meaningful conversation! That's legitimately all it takes.

(((I was going to add personal stories but realized i dont owe anyone so...)))

The Acheron sisters, and i will fight to the death on this, never got to grow up.

They were all stuck in various limbos thanks to their poverty and deadbeat father ((yeah hes a deadbeat, he may have been mourned but that changes nothing about his behaviors while alive)) Due to this, they got stuck in a cycle of immaturity. They had to stay the same, emotionally, mentally etc in order to survive the various needs and wants of their human lives.

Again, kids are just brutal...Most of the shit that goes down between the Acheron sisters is when they are kids (they're all in their beginning 20's), so I don't see how it can be labeled as "'abuse'"

Abuse is not a garnish word. It is not some thing you can throw around because a character, character, said something you don't like. These words, believe it or not can affect real life people.

Now, heres something to ask--

If you were put in Feyre's shoes, would you be as gracious? The answer some of you give is no, but i genuinely wonder. She decided- decides, to be that way. It is a choice she makes to be as kind and caring as she can be, because that's who she is, that's who she wants to be.

If you were put in Nesta's shoes, would you be as cruel? The answer some of you give is, again, no. But i still genuinely wonder. She decides to push people away, because she feels due to her family's conditioning that she doesnt deserve comfort. When all else fails, violence is the answer. But that's not who she is or wants to be.

Nesta is getting better, she's learning to grow. And so is Feyre. We can see the potential relationship growing at the end of ACOSF.

Neither of them will be a good fit for the other until they're able to heal, and grow up. They have their mates and their families to help them, I'm sure it'll turn out okay

[princessofmerchants]

A Post-HOFAS reading of Nesta Scrying for the Mask in ACOSF

One of my favorite scenes in ACOSF is when Nesta scrys for the Mask.

(HOFAS spoilers after the break)

From the first time I read this amazing scene, I immediately recognized all the callbacks to the scene in ACOWAR when she scryed for the Cauldron during the war against Hybern.

She made no move to close her eyes. “I—am I to … touch it?” “No,” Amren warned. “Just come close. Find it, but do not interact.” Nesta still didn’t move. She could not use the bathtub, she’d told me. Because the memories it dragged up— Cassian said to her, “Nothing can harm you here.” He sucked in a breath, groaning softly, and rose to his feet. Azriel tried to stop him, but Cassian brushed him off and strode for my sister’s side. He braced a hand on the desk when he at last stopped. “Nothing can harm you,” he repeated. Nesta was still looking at him when she finally shut her eyes.

—ACOWAR, ch. 62

Cassian’s warmth seeped into her side, his wings rustling near her back. She let that warmth, the rustle anchor her. He had come to save her from her nightmare, had stayed with her while she slept. Had guarded and fought for her. He would let no harm come to her now. No harm No harm No harm

—ACOSF, ch. 31

Cassian, her mate, is her anchor and way back when she descends into her power and its connection to the Cauldron-Made Mask, just like he was the reason she found the courage to scry for the Cauldron in ACOWAR.

And now, after reading HOFAS, I noticed new details in the ACOSF scrying scene that take on new meaning.

The magic when Nesta scrys resembles that of the Mystics in Midgard. The room gets cold (though in ACOSF Azriel does note with alarm that didn't happen when Nesta scryed for the Cauldron in the war against Hybern—so we are left to wonder what is different this time?). And the person using their power is focusing their magic into a question they need an answer to. Scrying in Prythian seems limited to locational questions, while I think the Mystics are sometimes asked questions that aren't framed as "Where is X?" And yet, the way they find answers seems to be locational too—their minds travel to someplace to seek an answer to the question asked. I have encountered predictions that Elain's Seer power may turn out to work similarly to the Mystics, but from the little we saw of it in action in ACOWAR, I'm no longer convinced the descriptions of how these kinds of magic operate seem to align—Nesta's scrying magic is way more similar, to me anyway.

Cassian's kiss given to Nesta to pull her out of the scrying, because she's used "the essence of the Cauldron" (‼️) to create an impenetrable wall around her mind to protect her loved ones...his kiss reminds me of Bryce and Hunt sharing their powers with each other in HOFAS when they have sex as mates. These scenarios aren't identical per say, but Cassian uses the power in his Siphons to send bites of power into her palm to draw her silver fired attention to him. Then he kisses her, and besides being so 👏🏻 sexy 👏🏻, after the kiss this exchange happens in mindspeak with Rhys:

(Kindle isn't letting me copy/paste anymore text from ACOSF 😏)

Something about Cassian warming the entire room while kissing Nesta to bring her out of the scrying has me thinking "Mate Magic Meld" a la Quinlar (but on a much smaller scale perhaps because they haven't both accepted the bond at this point), which is so freaking cool.

Whether it turns out to be simply a literary parallel or actually pointing to the same magical phenomenon on different scales, either way it's still cool to me, especially given how in both mate relationships, one of them is the anchor for the other to always "come back home" when descending into powerful magic that runs the risk of consuming the wielder. (This is again similar to the Feysand mating bond being Feyre's way back to life—and Rhys—at the end of ACOTAR when she dies.)

I'm sure there are even more amazing details from this Mask scrying scene that will blow our minds someday after we get to read the next ACOTAR book, which is when I expect Nesta's powers that she stole from the Cauldron, then was gifted to keep by the Mother, to be explained to us even more.

But for now I wanted to record what I noticed this time around rereading my favorite book—the mate trope as a romantic trope is cool, but mating bond magic sharing is the coolest. 🥰

[bluecornfrito]

acotar/acomaf/acowar spoilers

Unfortunately I’m a Tamlin defender and here’s why

We all know that Feyre is traumatized as fuck; it’s why Tamlins behavior and actions towards her hurt so much. Her reactions and behaviors are understandable. But I see everyone putting Tamlin in an evil-toxic-ex-who-deserves-nothing box. I don’t see him that way, never have. His character actually makes me so immensely sad.

From the beginning, he’s been traumatized. He had a father who was cruel and ruthless. Tamlin told Feyre that he disagreed with and unapproved of a lot of things his father did. We don’t know the full side of his story about the night he and his father killed Rhysands mom and sister. Did Tamlin want to do that? Did his dad force him to go like Rhysands dad tried to get him to kill Tamlin? I just have a feeling there’s a lot of unfortunate misunderstandings between them. But then Tamlin had to watch his father get killed right in front of him and he and Rhysand were declared High Lords in the same night.

Tamlin was a child just like Rhysand. The only difference was Tamlin didn’t have a family, or a best friend, or people to hold him up and teach him how to be a ruler. He was a child forced into a position he wasn’t ready for. So he keeps the same traditions, same rules. It’s probably why the Tithe is still a thing. Has anyone told Tamlin that there’s other, better ways to go about that? Does he even know? He’s playing a guessing game as a High Lord and it shows.

Then Amarantha comes in and we know how that goes. Tamlin is easily the High Lord that got the ‘easy’ way out, compared to the rest who were imprisoned and were definitely tortured on the daily for 50 years. That had to have filled him with guilt, but he still doesn’t know What To Do. (I think Tamlin 100% has the Freeze reaction at any given sign of conflict). “But he only sent his men out for two years!” Two years!! That’s a long time for sending people who are devoted to you, people who became your friends, to a death that will likely will come up as pointless. He was running out of people so he stopped. He froze and continued existing in his Court.

Then came Feyre. The human with hate for Fae in her heart, the human who killed his sentry and friend. I, personally, I don’t think Tamlin was planning on falling in love with a human. The deal was that she had to fall in love with him, not the other way around. But when he takes her to his home and she has such a bigger personality than he’d originally thought. She wasn’t only angry, she was also sweet, caring, sarcastic. She wasn’t just a wild human, she loved to paint. Over and over, Tamlin says that he never thought that a human could love such things. Then, she cries over that faerie that died on the table. She held his hand and comforted in his last moments. It was a tender moment that had Tamlin rethinking his own feelings.

But Amarantha still exists. Amarantha is sending more and more beasts and monsters. She’s terrorizing his land day after day. Taunting him. She’s dangerous and all he wants to do is keep Feyre safe. Not because she had to fall in love with him, but because he already fell for her. But Feyre also keeps going out, getting herself in trouble, having to fight for her life. She was reckless. Tamlin wanted to keep her safe. He knew that if he told her the truth, she would go and try to stop it herself without thinking.

Theeeeeen there’s Rhysand. (He’s a whole other point of topic AHH). Rhysand, who spiked a head on Tamlins front lawn. Rhysand, who came into his home and Hurt Her. Tamlin wasn’t able to protect her in that moment. He didn’t fight, he Bowed. Soooo he sends her away, risking everything; never seeing her again, finally becoming a personal prisoner to Amarantha, losing his court, his best friend. He lost all of that just so she would be safe with her real family.

We don’t know the full extent of what Amarantha did to him. We only saw them on the throne when everyone was gathered. We know what she did to Rhysand, who’s to say she didn’t also do that to Tamlin; the man she actually wanted to marry? Did she hurt him? What did she say to him? We don’t know. What did she hold over his head to have him never interject, never argue, never defend?

Oh and then Feyre is there. She’s There. Even though he sent her away, here she was. I don’t doubt he wanted to fight. But whatever Amarantha did to him, paired with his habit of freezing, prevented him from even making a face. Then she was beat up, put in awful, horrible trials. She almost dies. She’s isolated and alone. And He Can’t Do Anything. He’s watching all of this unfold, frozen out of fear and uncertain if he’d even win against Amarantha.

Then he has to watch as Rhysand take her, drug her, make a bargain with her, KISS HER after her and Tamlin finally had a second alone. What was going through his head! This man was probably so hurt and broken and torn between fighting and freezing. What was his reaction when Amarantha told him of the final trial? Was he angry? Scared? Relieved? He knew about his heart of stone, so maybe he already knew the loophole?

I just want to drive it home that We Don’t Know What He Was Thinking when all of this was happening. Then Feyre fucking DIES! Did he notice Rhysand fighting for her? Did he see the true desperation and sadness in Rhysand? Did he understand? Did he think the High Lord of the Night Court was just upset of losing a pet? Weeee don’t know. But I bet it hurt to see someone who is Enemy Number One (other than the obvious) fighting for the woman He loved. Then she’s brought back and everything is good and great and everyone got their happy ending and the world is perfect again. (Haha, there’s a storm coming).

Mist and Fury is the one I want to talk about the most but I’ll make a different post about that.

Thanks for reading my ramblings, more to come.

[galaxyofstars]

guys (spoilers for tog)

rowan literally had a whole "fake" mating bond that he believed was real for years. he was married. he spent over a century of his life in perpetual morning of someone he believed was his dead mate. lucien believing that his dead love was his mate without even feeling the mating bond does not mean that he can't have a romance with elain lmao.

it's just a question of how disrespectful sjm will be to jesminda (i never got over the way they talked about rowans ex sometimes. hoping and praying the same does not happen PLEASE)

“She was nothing like Jesminda.”

People are always up lucien’s ass for this line and for comparing elain to jesminda but like…no shit he’s gonna be comparing them 😭—the female he thought was his mate and his actual mate.Lucien genuinely believed him and jesminda were mates and she died with him thinking that.It’s only natural now that he’s found his real mate his mind would wander back to jesminda and he’d subconsciously compare the two.Lucien did not think anything negative about elain he was merely making an observation on how different she is than who he’d expected to be his mate(jesminda).

“Elain had been … thrown at him.”

People also twist this line in a million different ways.Lucien was thinking back on how him and jesminda had this epic love story where she had seduced him and teased him and chosen him in every way there was.He had then spent centuries believing his “mate” was dead so elain had been thrown at him.Thrown at him as in he never expected to find his mate because he thought his mate was DEAD.The mating bond snapping was just as shocking for lucien as it was for elain.So just like elain,lucien is allowed to be confused and uncertain about their mating bond especially in this scene where he was literally meeting her for the first time.This is not proof lucien doesn’t want elain or that he resents the mating bond,it’s literally just him thinking and making keen observations regarding their situation.Stop twisting my man’s words 🗣️.

[themildestofwriters]

I'll never understand Tamlin antis who are so tied up in their hate for him they just straight up refuse to acknowledge one of the big twists of ACOWAR when interpreting his actions *during* ACOWAR.

Like, I'm not saying you have to like the guy, but G-ddamn. It's almost wilful ignorance how they ignore the fact that he was a double agent the whole bloody time.

There's also the fact that, quite clearly, in Feyre's narration no less, his motivations are further explained as an intense drive to protect his people from Hybern. Like, why are so many people caught up on the whole "He whipped his sentry!" thing when you have Feyre right there telling us that the only reason he did it was to prevent Hybern from thinking he was weak and therefore it would be better to conquer Spring rather than simply ally with it.

The book outright tells you why he whipped his sentry and yet this idea perseveres that Tamlin... what? Couldn't handle being questioned? I don't understand. The book tells us why he did it. Why are we still making up reasons for why he did it?

Tamlin is wearing a mask in ACOWAR. He needs to pretend to be a leal hound of Hybern's order. He can't do that, however, if he is constantly taking issue with everything Hybern does or wants him to do. If he wants to maintain his alliance, he needs to show himself to be strong in the way Hybern views strength. If he wants to be a double agent, he needs to earn their trust. He can't do either of those things if he's constantly fighting over tortured mortals and accused sentries.

It doesn't help that half the trouble Tamlin is having maintaining this mask is directly caused by Feyre putting him in situations where he must choose between the alliance and his status as double agent or doing the right thing in that moment. He wouldn't have had to whip the sentry if Feyre hadn't let Ianthe steal the keys (and, yes, Feyre *let* Ianthe do that, because she watched the whole thing happened and could have intervened at any time), and had Feyre not provoked Ianthe by committing Divine Fraud.

For as much as Feyre says she wishes she could have prevented the whole thing, she's lying to the sentries and she's lying to herself, because the sentry was whipped because that's what Feyre wanted. She wanted to destroy Tamlin's relationship with his sentries and this whole situation was all but set up by her for that purpose. Feyre gets to act like the champion for arguing against injustice — an injustice she let happen and provoked for her own ambitions — while Tamlin is condemned because whipping the sentry is the only way to protect his people from a worse fate, and the only way to continue his role as double agent (which played a major role in the downfall of Hybern itself).

I don't know. For people who seem to like the series so much, they seem awfully keen on just ignoring whole swaths of context so they can make up reasons to hate a fictional character. It's really annoying to, because they can't just be quiet about their fanfiction. They gotta bring it up everywhere, even in serious discussion about the series, and they'll insult you for your takes solely because Tamlin is "abusive," as if that changes anything.

[violetasteracademic]

The Glass Coffin: HOFAS x Elriel

Many HOFAS spoilers ahead!! This is an INTENSIVE post on all the Elriel coding in HOFAS, so strap in! This is largely a theory post and my personal interpretations, so take it or leave it! It's all in good fun.

Let's start with The Glass Coffin. When it comes to the analysis of the songs Bryce played for Azriel and Nesta in the much beloved and much dissected bonus chapter, I have seen a lot of conversation around Stone Mother and significantly less (if any?) around The Glass Coffin!

The Glass Coffin is played next after the Stone Mother. And it is a ballet.

What is the The Glass Coffin?

My friends, it is Sleeping Beauty.

Now we all know that many suspect Elriel to be a Sleeping Beauty retelling. And I'll be honest, I take a lot of the mythology or "retellings" with a grain of salt when it comes to SJM, because she doesn't do incredibly loyal retellings but takes bits and pieces of inspiration. I suppose it's up to you where you draw the line of a retelling, or free IP inspiration. But one thing to understand about IP is that Sarah J. Maas would have to get Disney's permission to call her work a retelling of Disney's Sleeping Beauty. Much like Beauty and The Beast, she did not "retell" the Disney princess movie, but the original La Belle et la Bête by Gabrielle-Suzanne Barbot de Villeneuve published in 1740. So with that little lesson in intellectual property, lets look at the story of The Glass Coffin, because it is actually quite interesting:

A magician forces a proposal on a Maiden using his magic. The Maiden is repulsed by the use of magic in the proposal and rejects him. The Magician turns her brother into a stag, traps her in the glass coffin, and enchants the land around them.

There is a LOT to unpack here. I do not think Lucien is "The Magician" in this story. Instead, I think the Cauldron is, and I do think that the use of magic to force a proposal is a very close parallel to what Azriel discovered in HOFAS: That the Cauldron had been corrupted by the Asteri to serve their will. If you have read all of the books in the multiverse, you know that there is no other SJM universe where mating bond rejections happen. There is no other universe in which there are unhappily mated pairs forced together because the function of the mating bond, at a base level, is simply to produce the most powerful offspring. Mates in other worlds are true soulmates, and they fall in love before discovering they are mates.

In HOFAS, Azriel listened to a song from The Glass Coffin. He also listened to the story of Silene, and learned that the Cauldron was corrupted by the Asteri. It is not a theory or interpretation that the Asteri curate powerful bloodlines to ensure they have the strongest food from the souls that they eat. It is a fact. So it is not a jump to interpret that the Cauldron's corruption by the Asteri, and mates that are not a good fit on a soul level but forced together to produce powerful offspring, are one and the same. At this time, both Azriel and Elain have discussed feelings of repulsion or discomfort regarding E/ucien's bond. There are also negative consequences to a female rejecting the bond, as there were for the Maiden in The Glass Coffin. Rejecting a bond can lead to madness on the males end in Prythian because he believes he is entitled to her, just as the Maiden rejecting the Magician's proposal led to him trapping her in glass and enchanting the lands so no one else could have her.

This is already quite interesting, but it gets even more powerful as you continue to breakdown the Elain coding in HOFAS.

This line basically started a war:

"I can hear your heart beating through the stone." She angled her head, as if the city view held some answer, "Can you hear mine?" (ACOWAR, chpt. 24)

Now many people have used this to claim she is Lucien's mate, because she can hear his heartbeat. Though only a few pages earlier, we had this moment:

Elain can hear Feyre's heartbeat. She says if she listens carefully, she can hear hers too. At the time, we all assumed she was talking about Nesta. And yet we've discovered that Vesperus, an Asteri, (or Valg, depending on which theory you vibe with) was also a beating heart under the stone.

Inside a glass coffin.

More than that, we have this passage:

We now know that the Prison was once the Dusk Court, and just like UTM, The Hewn City, and Ramiel, it is encapsulated in stone beneath the mountain. Within the stone of the Prison lies the long buried heart of the Dusk Court. When you look back at Elain's line to Lucien, and see that she is staring out at the city, looking for answers at the heart she can hear beating beneath the stone, and not Lucien, this all starts to click together in a brilliant way. And the imagery, the island having a soul nurtured and blossoming under her care, has Elain written all over it.

Now, the reason I bring up the Hewn City here is because I believe there is a reason for Elain's lifelessness and distress in the Hewn City that has nothing to do with her wearing the color black.

In HOFAS, we discover a few important things about Earth Fae. Lidia discovers in her time on Team Archives what the Earth Fae did, and what their powers were used for:

Earth Fae were used on Midgard to discover ley lines of power to create powerful strongholds. One important thing I have noticed is that all Fae on Midgard are said to come from either Erilea or Prythian (at least that is all that is mentioned) and yet there is no indicator of where the Earth Fae come from. it is my personal belief the Earth Fae are from Prythian. Yet the entire Dusk Court disappeared, and their story continued on Midgard. It is my belief that Elain is not only a Seer, but that she has also been gifted with the Earth powers that have since been lost on Prythian, priming her to both restore Earth powers on Prythian as well as the Dusk Court.

What does this have to do with the Hewn City?

Earth Fae experience distress when they are in places where the magic is dead or warped, and they are the only ones that can feel it:

Bryce mentions she forgets the Earth Fae even have magic, because what they can do is often unseen.

If Elain is in possession of the lost Earth power, she would have been able to feel her power literally shriveling up and dying anywhere that has been warped by that magic.

And then of course we have the fact that the cave on Prythian is an exact match to the Cave of Princes on Avallen. We end HOFAS with all the weapons in the possession of the IC, the knowledge that there are cache's of magic hidden in the lands, and that there are places where the magic has been twisted and must be freed, one being the Prison/Dusk Court.

This was the imagery used once the magic was freed on Avallen, and it took its true, lush, blossoming form:

If what is true on Avallen will also be true once the Dusk Court is freed on Prythian, answer this question honestly: When you read this imagery- blooming vines and roses, beautiful and surreal, the land seeming to know her, small blooming flowers nestling around her body and in her hair- who do you think of? Who could this possibly be alluding to back in Prythian?

Elain's coding was all over HOFAS, and Azriel's "what if the Cauldron was wrong storyline" continued. These statements are true, even if none of my theories about her being an Earth Fae are right, though I know I'm not the only one who believes that is where we are headed!

The fact that The Glass Coffin is Sleeping Beauty, and that Azriel listened to it, may not be a powerful statement on its own (though I think it is). But the fact that the Cauldron corruption was revealed, and The Glass Coffin is a story of a woman who was entrapped due to her rejecting a proposal forced by magic, and Sarah used the Glass Coffin again with Vesperus, potentially tying her back to the heartbeat Elain can hear if she listens closely, it's all just too much to ignore.

I was personally overwhelmed by all of the Elain and Azriel nods in HOFAS. I think they get buried under all of the criticism in the book. I am so excited to see where everything goes, and I hope you had fun going down this rabbit hole with me!

[romanticatheartt]

So here it is. All my favorite Nesta and Feyre centric fanfics<3

I couldn't whisper when you needed it shouted, ah, but I'm singing like a bird 'bout it now by freehunter: Nesta and Feyre years after acosf events, in the middle of a battlefield. (This one is my absolute favorite❤️‍🩹)

Books and Wings by Popjunkie42 : Feyre visits Nesta in the House of Wind library for a book recommendation. Post-ACOSF. Pure fluff.

Sirens in the Beat of Your Heart by Popjunkie42: Nesta works to continue to tear down her walls, and work on a new relationship with her younger sister, when Feyre comes to the House of Wind seeking help. Post-ACOSF sister bonding.❤️‍🩹

"Nessa?" by Dawninlatin : Nesta telling a story about how Feyre terrorize her at night, when they were little❤️‍🩹

In Unity and Victory by bisexualsharks: A retelling of that one scene in ACOWAR when That Thing happens to Rhys, except this time sprinkle in a little more sisters content. (Fix-it sorta fic)

Sisters by climbingmountains: A Sister Sleepover fic (ft. Elain)❤️‍🩹

Contours & Constellations by Insanity_is_Catching: The Archeron sisters discuss their human bodies and what they miss about them. (ft. Elain)

Not a Lot, Just Forever (intertwined sewn together) by paradisangel: In which Nesta and Feyre actually talk and Nesta actually lets herself feel emotions. Post-ACOSF.

How Paper Is Made by Asnowfern: Nesta found out Feyre was illiterate and decided to teach her. Kinda fix-it and pre-canon.

Literacy by orphan_account: What if Nesta taught Feyre how to read instead of Rhysand? Kinda fix-it and pre-canon.

Strained but Entertwined by orphan_account: Feyre and Nesta bump into each other in the middle of the night after having nightmares. Bonding and fluff ensues.❤️‍🩹

A Little Complication Between Sisters by VivereLibri: A take on if Nesta was a little more concerned about Feyre during ACOMAF.

Big Sister Nes by Firestarhk: Three-year-old Nesta Archeron is not impressed with her family’s newest addition. (This is so cute🥹)

Cycles of Life by BookWorm77071: Little Feyre gets her period and is scared, big sister Nesta's here to the rescue<3

what it is like by xelly: Instead of making nesta go to their solstice party, feyre visits her in her apartment.❤️‍🩹

Enjoy reading<33

[batboys-cumdumpster]

I have only seen when Tamlin forced Lucien to perform Calanmai with Ianthe (who later tries to SA him). From what I know, it is not said what Rhys does for Calanmai. I also don't understand why letting Nightmare Court perform the Calanmai ritual would be a problem. It's just sex for magic, it isn't that deep as long as all parties are consenting.

am i insane or is it mentioned that keir performs calanmai duties for rhysand. and if so why has he given Known Daughter Beater and Resident Super Misogynist sex magic duties.

[elrieldreamer]

Just your periodic reminder that the cover of ACOWAR, which was designed by a tattoo artist and approved by SJM, features Truth Teller and flowing shadows in the shape of roses.

An additional reminder, just in case ACOWAR didn’t convince you. The special edition of ACOFAS (which bridges the main trilogy and the additional spin-offs, which will each feature one couple) has these incredible images of the sisters and brothers in the back, and when the book is closed, they “kiss”. The art surrounding each couple matches, and we once again have Truth Teller, roses (and ivy around an interview discussing Elain), and shadows. Elain is set in a very bridal-coded pose, holding a large bouquet of roses. Ivy has also historically been included in bridal bouquets as a symbol of tenacious loyalty and devotion.

I mean … she did say that it was pretty obvious, y’all. 🤷🏼‍♀️

[natureboy96]

Tamlin and the Hybern Deal: Fumbling or Preplanned?

Preface:

a lot of criticism for the series can be directed at the quality of the writing or narrative. ultimately, I don't believe the series is interested in a more nuanced approach when it comes to a relationship coming apart or having the characters understanding each others' motivations in favor of promoting an escapist fantasy for overcoming a traumatic event. That being said, I am going to approach this event aiming to be more objective than the narrative, because that's generally how I look back on most books, even the ones I am really invest in personally. I understand why people may choose to simply accept the narrative as is for catharsis or vicarious comeuppance, and there's absolutely nothing wrong with that.

I've had a number of thoughts about this part of the story since I read ACOWAR, as I'm sure a number of people have. After a lengthy discussion on a different post with two very passionate and respectable fans of the series, however, I found myself thinking about and discussing points about the deal I hadn't thought about before, and I feel a proper assessment of the event is worth doing. I've come to my own conclusions on this based on what I have read/remember, but I imagine there are other conclusions people can draw as well.

Tamlin's motivation pt 1 - Feyre

The first knowledge we have of Tamlin's deal with Hybern is when he shows up there, and he and the King tells us he's made the deal to rescue Feyre from Rhysand. Getting Feyre back is the only motive he clearly states in ACOMAF, though in ACOWAR we get more reason to believe there could be more to it.

I still hold that it feels very disingenuous to say his motivation was solely to control her or treat her like a pet. We do know that, at least at the start of ACOMAF, he's very much blind to what Feyre's going through, a combination of their two traumas making actual, honest communication between them impossible. We also know that Tamlin's motives for his actions at the beginning of the book, as stated by him, are to protect her from every threat he couldn't before. He cares for her as the person he'd fallen in love with, and did not know the person she became after UtM.

After Feyre leaves, there is no credible reason for Tamlin to believe that she wants to stay away and wasn't taken by the "evil high lord who could control people's minds and who had sexually assaulted her for months in front of him", whom she had said she didn't want to be with. Tamlin was not informed by Lucien or his staff that Feyre was rescued willingly by Mor, including hiding the melted ring. A short letter written in her own hand could easily be coerced, not even with mind control. When Lucien went to find her and bring her back, she tells him that, "When you're trapped in the darkness long enough, the darkness stares back", and then produces massive bat wings. I can't see that as anything but confirming that she was corrupted by darkness, whether it was her decision or otherwise. That doesn't seem like the sort of message that means you don't need rescuing.

Lastly, we get to Hybern itself, when Feyre tells Tamlin directly that she does not want to go with him, and Tamlin learns they are mated. I'd point to the whole, 'evil mind controlling HL' again for why she might say it, but the mating bond would have made it even worse; we know for a fact mating bonds doesn't mean true love, and a lot of bonds end up terrible - imagine the woman you love mated to a monster she wanted to escape from? Either way, this part happens after the deal is made, and as Lucien mentions, the deal couldn't be reneged on without costing his life, even if he did believe her. And no, I don't consider a high lord including his inner circle in an alliance as wrong, for reasons I will elaborate on in the next section.

Tamlin's motivation pt 2 - Hybern's inevitability

at the beginning of ACOMAF, we know that Tamlin and Lucien are off on their territory's borders, supposedly hunting down Amarantha's threats and doing other war things. It isn't until later in the book that Rhysand tells us that Hybern is preparing for war, and that the Spring Court would be the first target, as Hybern wants to destroy the wall and reenslave the human population. We also learn that Tamlin and Lucien's trips to the border and war camps were also in anticipation to Hybern's plans.

The question, then, is why would Tamlin make a deal to let the invading kingdom into his lands, when his court would be the first on the chopping block, and when he's explicitly stated he hates slavery? Some point to this as being a poor decision/oversight on his part, sacrificing everything to get Feyre back.

We learn, early on in ACOWAR, that Tamlin’s deal for Feyre wasn’t just to get her back, but also to leave the people of the Spring Court undisturbed and untouched:

I would also call to Tamlin's evidence during the HL meeting (another topic worth a deeper look) as proof that Tamlin had plans for more than just rescuing Feyre with this deal. We know that Feyre has been at Spring for a few weeks at the start of ACOWAR and doesn't stay for much longer, past the Summer Solstice and a bit longer at that, but not much. An indeterminate amount of time passes after, without any notable events/holidays to track it (worth clarifying if people know otherwise) And yet, Tamlin has months worth of records on Hybern's movements and plans when he's at the High Lord meeting. It's possible he started gathering this information after Feyre left, but I find it harder to believe he wouldn't have started this planning from the beginning - it's clear when Feyre is there that he isn't just looking to play along with Feyre, and tries to tell her there is more going on than just a betrayal. Lucien actually confirms it himself when the two of them are fleeing from Spring and through Autumn - he confirms Tamlin was already playing the double agent when he made the deal, to use Hybern for their own ends and hope to rally support later:

Ianthe (who Hybern calls one of his own) states that Hybern is inevitable, and Rhysand and the IC plan and prepare through the two books along the same lines. It seems foolish for Tamlin to assume otherwise, especially with Ianthe's manipulation so close. And it's already been confirmed that Spring would be the first court to be invaded, for its proximity to the wall and human lands. That leaves Tamlin with a choice: Should he risk open warfare against Hybern, devastate his forces without guarantee the other lords will come to help? And even if he could manage to hold off Hybern (we learn well that even all the courts together couldn't do it together without Amren) what would the devastation be?

This is where I draw a parallel between Rhysand's choice with Amarantha and Tamlin's choice with Hybern. When Rhysand knew Amarantha would be inevitable, he decided to play a double agent in order to better protect people he could. The choice to work with Hybern, once it was clear they were inevitable, would be the best out of terrible choices. pretending to be on Hybern's side offers Tamlin the highest level of control he can manage in the face of an all out invasion. We see that this was part of Tamlin's planning; his bargain guarantees the safety of his people, and he's able to evacuate people to the east to protect them. It mitigates damage in a way he can protect more people than not.

Was Tamlin's planning, then, effective at all, especially seeing as Hybern's twins were daemati, and Feyre has to protect his and Lucien's minds because they couldn't guard their minds themselves? I would posit that, as far as the story goes, we only know of 5 daemati in the entire series; Rhys, Feyre (from Rhys' powers), the twins, and the unnamed daemati Rhys claims was the one to actually kill the kids (sloppy retcon, thin lie or legit story, impossible to tell). Rhjys mentions that daemati are super rare and highly prized, but no other court seems to have one in their arsenal, a skill that could be very useful in the middle of a war. We certainly know the Spring Court hasn't one, none they know about.

As for protecting oneself against a daemati's attack, we only have a single example of training one's mind, that being Rhys training Feyre. We haven't any confirmation that non daemati can even guard their minds from mental attacks, and even if they could, we've only seen it be done by another daemati, and Tamlin neither is nor has a daemati.

Furthermore, we have no confirmation that Tamlin or the Spring Court knew Hybern had powerful daemati on their side, or that the twins were themselves. Even if it could be assumed they were, there's no indication that the twins are daemati or that they would be the ones sent to Spring as emissaries. There are a lot of things you can't plan for when it comes to things you don't know, and something as rare as a mind controller seems hard to plan for.

As for the rest of Tamlin's plans... We can't know for sure what he might have planned to manage Hybern, because Feyre's manipulations affected anything he might have had planned. Whether you think it justified or not, Feyre's actions were calculated with the intent of driving a wedge between Tamlin and his people, using her Fae Sainthood to do so. Tamlin was put into more and more situations between her manipulation and Ianthe's, and because of the deal (and his attempt to remain looking as a good ally to Hybern) his hands were forced to make terrible decisions. If Tamlin had sided with a sentry over Ianthe, a Hybern agent and not just priestess, he would have risked the double agent position he was holding, and Feyre made sure he would be punished for these choices. Feyre is, as she was in ACOMAF, Tamlin's blindspot. His love had blinded himself to what she could do or needed, to her detriment in ACOMAF, and then his own and Spring Court in ACOWAR. Perhaps Tamlin had plans to protect his people and his lands better than he managed... We can never know, though, because Feyre chooses to act and the narrative hasn't been interested in explaining more. We also know, from Feyre's own words, that she was aware her plans would hurt more than just Tamlin and was willing to let Spring fall to better unite the rest of the courts to work together.

Conclusions

Based on the evidence in the text, we can come to the conclusion that Tamlin had used his deal with Hybern to try and better protect his Court, a plan that Lucien seems to confirm was in their thinking to begin with, and Tamlin confirms in the High Lord Meeting with follow through. We cannot know the full effect of his planning, whether it would have worked or not, due to Feyre's actions in Spring. Saying Tamlin's only motive for Hybern was to get Feyre back and he hadn't thought through/planned for Hybern seems to be proven false from Lucien's words.

[elainsgirl]

Yk the main difference for me that makes or breaks a couple is their dynamic.

I can see Gwyn and Azriel being playful to each other as well as soft. They are the kind of couple that could go on and on about some topic and also offer comfort when one is having a nightmare.

And I have yet to get that vibes from elriel. All I get when I think about them is "The weather is exceptional today" "I agree"

I know this is a troll but what I find absolutely hilarious is how they want elriel but simply want to switch out Elain for a character they love more.

“the kind of couple that could go on and on about some topic”

Canon Gwynriel:

“how was the party?”

“fine.” He realised a heart beat later it wasn’t socially acceptable answer, “it was nice” not much better. “Did you and the priestesses havs a celebration?” “Yes, though the service was the main highlight”

“I see.”

And as Gwyn was about to open her mouth - what does Azriel do? Change the topic. So no actually, other then made-up Hcs gwynriel clearly aren’t the type of couple that can go on & on about some topic

yet

You have Azriel choosing to sit and listen to Elain talk about her gardens, at 3 in the morning.

”playful as well as soft” - the way a faint smile bloomed on Azriel’s cheek when he saw Elain clutching her fork? Az and Elain sitting together out in the gardens - with Az casually going through paperwork & Elain enjoying the sun? (If that’s not the definition of soft and domestic Idk what is) The way Az showed Elain the gardens? Elain calling his scars beautiful? All of these moments are soft, gentle & beautiful interactions.

“Offer comfort” - the way Az saw how uneasey Elain felt due to Amren so he took the attention of her? The way he offered her comfort throughout acowar in regards to her visions? The way Azriel put her at ease in acomaf? The way Elain went out of her way to find a solution to Azriel’s headaches?

It’s funny that elriel give off the “weather is exceptional today” vibes when Gwyn and Az have the most basic, mundane conversation in which Az was actively trying to be polite and Gwyn was giving half-hearted answers that left no room for discussion- I’ve had more interesting conversations with strangers then Az and Gwyn have.

At this point - yall are just making it clearer you want elriel but bcs you don’t like Elain you want to swap her out with a more tolerable character like Gwyn. The way gwynriel is predicted to be, canonically speaking- Elriel are already written to be like that.

[tamlindudley]

Good morning and I just did some rereading ya know (coz I'm clearly insane) and I can't deal with how fucking stupid it is for the Suriel to say in ACOWAR he meant Rhys when he said “Stay with the High Lord.” I’m sure y’all had this discussion long before but it’s new to me and hey, I’m allowed to be mad on my blog right?

Like in ACOTAR, first of all, the Suriel specifically starts talking about “the High Lord” saying “I know a good many things about the High Lord of the Spring Court.”

And the quote then goes:

“Stay with the High Lord, human … He will shield you from it, so stay close to him, and all will be righted.”

Okay sure maybe the Suriel was giving her a riddle of which High Lord, right? WRONG. Because the next quote goes:

“The High Lord does not know that you came here today, does he?”

Now why on earth would that be Rhysand? This line is fucking Tamlin because he’s the only Feyre didn’t tell, so what is going on with this stupid Suriel? Does it know everything except English grammar? If you are referring to two people you are supposed to fucking specify? But noooo. We are supposed to be fucking awed that GASP what wat a plot twist, it meant Rhysand all along.

UM NO. Because there’s more:

“Run for the High Lord’s manor. Do not forget what I told you—stay with the High Lord, and live to see everything righted … Free me and return to the High Lord’s side.”

So uh, if this is Rhysand so is she supposed to run all the way to the night court, hm? And why would she RETURN to Rhysand? She’s not even met him yet!!

Like literally fuck Sarah because what the fuck. Why retcon things which cannot be retconned? Like she can literally have made this as Feyre could have been safe with Tamlin but she left him so she wasn’t safe but she was free? Or something? Anything? Or like, never bring this up again like. Guys I’m so fucking furious right now. I can’t. I just fucking can’t.