#accepted: helenus

[thoodleoo]

hi! i was looking through your Aeneas posts because I absolutely loooveee the Aeneid and Aeneas as a character, and I just wanted to ask, what specific traits does Aeneas have that make you enjoy him and his story? Thank you for fueling my love for this epic haha! :)

ohhh man okay so. the thing with aeneas is he's the son of a goddess and a super powerful warrior but he's also like. he's some guy, yknow? children of gods are a dime a dozen in the bronze age theres like 8 billion of them even zeus cant give all of his kids special treatment because then nobody would be able to kill anyone in wars and then ares would get mad and we all know how THAT would end. and the thing is hes not even his own mom's specialist little boy he's barely even in the top three. yeah she'll rescue him when diomedes goes apeshit or whatever but she also rescues paris from menelaus's sexy powerful headcrushing thighs (shame, really) and really of all the pretty boys it's clear who her favorite is and spoiler alert: it's not the one who's her son. so we've got this guy who's not important enough for mom to talk to him but he's too important to die at troy like he really really wants to so he kind of just goes and does whatever he figures he's supposed to. and he's not really good at any of it and in fact is arguably kind of bad at a lot of it, which isn't entirely his fault because he's really living out somebody else's life story and getting dragged around by the thread of fate like a chihuahua being forced to go on a hike in spite of its stubby little legs and wet eyes that are prone to popping out of their sockets if it gets tossed around a little too hard. actually like you know how in a lot of horse sports it's kind of accepted at the highest levels that some people are going to pump those critters full of painkillers so they can still compete while injured? aeneas is that horse. aphrodite keeps loading him up with ketamine and endorphins or whatever so he can drag himself to italy subsiding on a diet of survivor's guilt and pietas and THEN. when he has a chance to break the cycle that made him the most eligible (read: most alive and not-helenus) prince of troy hes like actually you know what. Fuck this and straight up kills a guy begging for his life on his knees because if you want a goddamn homeric hero then youre gonna Get a goddamn homeric hero like it or not

i just think he's a lot of fun

[firinnie]

Cassandra deserved better

So I'm currently obsessed with reading about Troy, and oh my gods. Cassanda, my beloved. Let's talk about her.

She had a twin named Helenus whonis one of the few children of Priam and Hecuba who survived Troy and after.

We have a version in which she and her brother were licked on their ears by a snake in the temple of Apollo (em.. yeah) and that's why they got a gift of prophecy from him.

BUT I prefer the more common version, Apollo fell in love with beautiful Cassandra and she promised to give herself to him but when he gave only her this gift, Cassandra refused love for the god. Because of this Apollo cursed her, from that day on no one believed her words.

In this version she was teaching her twin how to see and others generally believed his predictions… and they could have used it much better than they did lol. Like "Hey brother, tell them to set fire to that big wooden horse" or something.

Because of Apollo's curse she was considered mad to the point that insults were thrown at her and in some versions Priam ordered her to be locked up.

Cassandra was the first one to see the body of her brother Hector being brought back to Troy. She obviously predicted his death.

Likewise, she knew that "Paris" who "was the son of a shepherd" was actually her missing brother Alexander.

Generally, he has his own story BUT their mother had a dream that he would bring destruction to them all so they decided to get rid of him right after birth… and then Priam and Hecuba accepted him with open arms. Of course they did.

Apart from the fact that Cassandra defied Apollo and ripped the veil from Helen's head (because she knew that this girl would bring destruction), she threw herself at the Trojan Horse with a torch and an axe 'cause no one believed that there were soldiers inside. Unfortunately, she was stopped. Boo!

The horrible thing is that she knew exactly what fate awaited her too.

She was raped by Ajax the Lesser, in the temple of Athena, which, to put it mildly, did not please the goddess.

But more heartbreaking thing about this scene is that she had a suitor with whom she was probably supposed to be married. His name was Coroebus and during the attack on Troy he put on the armor of his enemies to blend in with the crowd and attack them. But when he saw that Cassandra was being hurt, he abandoned it and wanted to save her from Ajax but was killed, probably by Peneleos, Diomedes or Neoptolemus.

So after brutally losing her virginity and seeing the life of person she may have loved, she was taken away by Agamemnon. Cassandra them became his pallake (concubine) against her will of course. From the forced pregnancy she gave birth to twins, Teledamus and Pelops.

She predicted that if they returned to Mycenae they would be murdered but of course Agamemnon didn't listen.

His wife Clytemnestra (absolutely rightly) was furious with him and murdered guy on the spot. In a fit of rage she also murdered Cassandra, and Aegisthus, Clytemnestra's lover, killed both of baby boys. Technically we don't know if Cassandra saw her children die with her own eyes (or what feelings she had for them) but she certainly saw it in a vision. Can you imagine that?

In my opinion she is one of the most tragic figures of Troy, another victim of the gods too.

I also found information that she left a special chest with a mask of Dionysus face in it, Eurypylus got it as his share of the treasures from Troy and when he opened it he went crazy. Good job Cassandra.

[apollosgiftofprophecy]

I found a post with quotes and sources on the whole Cassandra thing on reddit ( I mostly just brows for questions-)

I'm really curious if I'm missing something or if these are even true, I don't know the gall your were speaking about so-😭

Regardless if they have any validity imo the play and oath version is still far more creditable and the one with most details

The oath version also fits in with Greek mythology and culture in general, the gods don't go around punishing people without a reason, there would at least be a metaphorical reason ( like Daphne turning into a tree, it isn't a punishment but I mean it has outside myth reasons)

The snakes thing just doesn't fit with the pattern I'm familiar with-

I'd really love to hear your thoughts on this! Hope I'm making sense

forget "i'll probably answer in a few days" we're gonna do this NOW

*faint wails of my wip in the distance*

So the person I mentioned was Louise Bogan. She's a very accomplished writer, especially considering the era she lived in, but when I first did my research on Cassandra and the variations of her myths, she was the only source I could find of the "snake licking their ears" version.

"she and her brother Helenus were left overnight in the temple of the Thymbraean Apollo. No reason has been advanced for this night in the temple; perhaps it was a ritual routinely performed by everyone. When their parents looked in on them the next morning, the children were entwined with serpents, which flicked their tongues into the children's ears. This enabled Cassandra and Helenus to divine the future."

This is the quote that Cassandra's wiki gives, but the thing is, even when I search up the quote, there aren't really any sources that come up, so I can't actually say whether or not this is actually from her - plus, the wiki doesn't have a source linked for the quote either, and the only Cassandra-related work I can find from Bogan is her short poem "Cassandra" (very pretty btw).

So actually I'm now baffled about where this quote came from. Huh.

Well, in any case, I am now aware of these two fragments that do, in fact, support the myth having an older basis! I am more ambivalent to this version now lol, but also I agree with you - it doesn't hold as much weight as Aeschylus's plays, which imo, are The sources on Cassandra, since Agamemnon does focus on her, her thoughts, her fears, ect! The Trojan Women by Euripides also expands on her, as well as hints at her relationship with Apollo POST-curse (spoiler: it's positive).

Plus -does some quick math- 1st-2nd Century AD would be 1-200 AD, or CE, which -pulls up historical timeline (yes i am THAT nerd)- means Anticlides's fragment was from juuuuuust before Ovid's Metamorphoses (written in 8 AD) UP TO a whiiiiiile after it.

And despite the scholia's connection to Homer, one of the oldest sources we have, it's a commentary on the myth itself, not necessarily part of it. An example of another such commentary would be Apollo's involvement in the rebellion - there was huge debate over whether Athena or Apollo would even do such a thing, and Apollo's sources mainly come from scholia - and of course, I'm not saying to toss it because it's "just notes", but again, Cassandra's main sources are The Oresteia, Trojan Woman, and The Iliad. I consider the Roman era myths supplemental material, as well as this fragment and scholia. Interesting stuff! Just not very essential to what Cassandra's story is actually about.

Because here's the thing - if we go with the snake version, we completely obliterate Apollo and Cassandra's oath, a core point in their myth and a central characteristic of Greek culture that is tied in with another part of it - marriage.

Yes. Marriage. Their myth is an example of how Ancient Greek courtship worked. The man offers a gift - such as a dowry - and the woman (through her father, usually) either accepts or rejects it.

We must also remember that marriage also equaled sexual intercourse in this sense (as much as my asexual nose wrinkles at the thought). The two go hand-in-hand here.

"But Alder!!" I hear you say. "Apollo doesn't get married!!"

Correct! But he has symbolic ones! Hence the nine Muses. Also Cyrene.

And here's the thing! Cassandra and Apollo both 100% are aware of the terms of the oath. A symbolic marriage (and everything that comes with it) for a dowry of the gift of prophecy.

And Cassandra accepts! SHE is the one who accepts! Not through her father, who by old-time custom, would be the chattel of her father. SHE accepts! SHE makes the decision! SHE is given autonomy! (proof women in the ancient myths are more complex than their modern "retellings" give them credit for.)

She is, in fact, in love with Apollo! He is the "god most dear" to her (source: The Trojan Women) and even calls out for him upon her death (source: The Oresteia)!

The question is...why does she back out?

I think it's simple. She's ASEXUAL- I'm joking lol (or am I? 👀 It DOES make sense...and I'm not the only one who thinks it's a fitting interpretation, because we have NO solid reason for why she backs out. She's down for it! She loves him! He loves her! It's there on the page! So why does she back out?

Because wtf is sex lol)

It could also be because Apollo's presence is very, very strong for a god - he straight-up made the other gods (minus his parents) tremble the first time he steps onto Olympus. She could have gotten overwhelmed!

I would also just like to briefly point out that if Apollo's as horrible and awful as the haters say he is why didn't he just go through with it himself. why didn't he, i dunno, take what he wanted and punish her anyway? why did he let her back out? he's the one with the power here. yet, he hands her the reigns. this is literally a woman's autonomy being respected here, why do people frame it as coercive when it's anything but smh

and as for the gift of prophecy? well, culturally-speaking, if the marriage falls through, the dowry is returned, is it not? but here's the kicker.

Apollo can't take it back. Not even the gods can remove a gift.

So it must be nullified somehow. Hence, the curse.

I'm going to go off on my own tangent now about this rq - Cassandra is often presented as this girl who was driven mad by her visions, visions she can't convince anybody of and which therefore are the source of why she's mad.

But...from what I've read...she doesn't seem that mad? Like she's frantic at times, and ofc dramatic because everyone in Greek mythology is (lol), but I've never come across a point where she's absolutely unhinged? Like, lost her mind crazy? Batshit insane levels she has to be locked up?

I WILL admit I haven't read everything about her quite yet, but I have read snippets of her in Agamemnon and The Trojan Woman, the former of which where she's the aforementioned dramatic and resigned, and the latter where she's joyful!

That doesn't match up with her stereotypical representation!

So...my two cents is that I don't think she's legitimately mad. I don't think the visions drove her mad. Did they depress her? Hell yeah. But not enough to keep her from staying positive through the whole war.

Maybe her family thought she was mad, and because of that, it just trickled into everyone's consciousness that she was?

Or could it be because of modern (and perhaps. sexist.) interpretation that gave her the image of being mad? Because I do not see a crazy girl plagued by the Voices.

I see a complex, discouraged woman who, despite the hardships she's come to know and foresee, finds it in herself to remain steadfast in her people, and her faith, so much so that even after being taken from her family, her city, and her homeland, she still believes he will avenge her.

And yes, it's never officially confirmed that Apollo had Orestes kill Clytemnestra and Aegisthus for murdering Cassandra, I know I know, but I don't think it's that much of a stretch to believe.

If any of my myth moots would like to add on/make corrections on things I may have gotten wrong, feel free to do so! This is a blog for all of us to LEARN on, and we can't do that without first making discussion lol also I am only human and therefore prone to mistakes rip

[galusandmalus]

It’s no surprise Neoparasite is the ultimate evil when his unbroken male line of ancestors have all been diabolical:

Achilles - Committed war crimes for fun, then fucked over the Achaean army because he didn’t get to rape Briseis, his pettiness in turn got his boyfriend killed, then he committed more war crimes.

Peleus - Killed his half-brother because daddy loved him more. Raped Thetis according to a multiple sources.

Telamon - Not directly related to Neoparasite but he's Peleus's brother and just as evil. Also killed his half-brother along with Peleus. Was terrible to Hesione and Teucer (who is somehow the best man born into this family tree).

Aeacus - Bad enough father that two of his sons killed his favorite. Raped Psamathe the Nereid (Peleus must get it from him) who was in the form of a seal.

I don’t even need to get started on Zeus, Cronus, & Uranus but that makes 7 generations of men who did awful things, starting from Uranus down to Neoparasite himself (I hope Molossus turned out better with Andromache and Helenus's influence)

Molassus, honestly, from what I've seen, turned out WAAAY better. The only conflict he ever gets into turns out weirdly amicably with his brother wanting to be in charge, and him just... leaving to build a new society. not even like dramatic lmao.

I mean it makes sense, I dunno how old he is, but he clearly empathizes with his mother in Euripides and is treated as a bastard. With what Pelaeus is ignoring him and talking about his bloodline ending, you gotta wonder if he is even really accepted as a son. Oh man, Peleaus and Telemon are probably worse than you think. They sacked Iolcus and dismembered a woman. The thetis thign is weird since Euripides does have them get back together. I guess it depends on whoever's interpretation, cuz sea gods DO just end up wrestling in general. Tho fuck it the whole iolcus thing is enough for me to call him a bad dude I guess it goes either way. Id say telemon is worse cuz, I mean there's never any romantic diolgoue found about him and hesione at all dude just sucks. shit dad too.

Honestly, Achilles and his kids, while definitely tragic, it's the fact that neither became good men that is the most tragic part. Because they DO have moments of empathy, and actions of kindness, and then they stop. it's interesting there's almost a thing about their children being worse, the degradation of the heroes, from Perseus to Theseus and then to Achilles. But then the children of the last line are clearly far better men. Hyllus, demophon, mollassus, orestes.

Damn, achilles lived his entire life without saving a single person. Medea, Heracles, and Theseus they've saved at least one person. But not Achilles.

[babyrdie]

Prophetic twins in The Cypria fragments (basically a post with a bunch of uncertain theories)

The Cypria is attributed to Stasinus of Cyprus (also known as Chipre, an island) and is generally attributed to being a poem of the 7th century BCE. The epic is lost, but a summary by Proclus lets us know that Helenus told the future to Paris when he was about to go to Sparta and Cassandra also prophesies:

This is continued by the epic called Cypria which is current is eleven books. Its contents are as follows. Zeus plans with Themis to bring about the Trojan war. Strife arrives while the gods are feasting at the marriage of Peleus and starts a dispute between Hera, Athena, and Aphrodite as to which of them is fairest. The three are led by Hermes at the command of Zeus to Alexandrus on Mount Ida for his decision, and Alexandrus, lured by his promised marriage with Helen, decides in favour of Aphrodite. Then Alexandrus builds his ships at Aphrodite's suggestion, and Helenus foretells the future to him, and Aphrodite order Aeneas to sail with him, while Cassandra prophesies as to what will happen afterwards.

The Cypria, fragment 1. Translation by H.G. Evelyn-White.

The fact that both Helenus and Cassandra prophesy in this summary has resulted in arguments regarding the possibility of one of them being an interpolation:

Proclus Chrestomathia: καὶ Ἕλενος περί τῶν μελλόντων [scil. Ἀλεξάνδρωι] πρ��θεσπίζει … καὶ Κασσάνδρα περὶ τῶν μελλόντων προδηλοῖ. Helenus delivers a prophecy concerning the future … and Cassandra reveals the truth concerning the future. This duplication of prophetic roles has seemed offensive to several scholars. Bethe in particular (1929:231–232 and RE s.v. “Kassandra” [10 (1919): 2291.11–18]) thought that one must be an interpolation and decided on the sister as the foreign body. Helenus’ position, he supposed, could be justified by the role he occupies in the Iliad and the Ilias Parva (see my forthcoming commentary on the latter). Cassandra had been intruded from Euripides’ Alexandros (see page 95 below) because the mythological handbook that he presumed to be Proclus’ source mentioned her as a variant.

The doublet is not, however, as eccentric as this approach implies. J. Geffcken (“Ein Prinzip antiker Erzählung und Darstellungskunst,” Hermes 62 [1927]: 5) draws attention to a particularly close parallel from the Odyssey, where two prophetic speeches on Odysseus’ destined wanderings are delivered at fairly close quarters by Teiresias (xi 100–137) and Circe (xii 37–110) respectively, with very little actual repetition. That two separate prophetic warnings were given to Paris in the Cypria may, then, be accepted (cf. Fraenkel, Aeschylus Agamemnon 3.554). A contrast with the Iliad’s general avoidance of prophetic figures may be drawn (see page 95 below on Cassandra). Kullmann (1960:246) perceptively remarks of Helenus’ speech at Iliad VI 77–101: “typisch homerisch ist, dass er nicht προθεσπίζει, sondern praktische Ratschlage gibt” (cf. his 246n4).

The Origins of the Trojan War: From Zeus’ Plan to Eris’ Intervention by Malcom Davies.

There is also the possibility that they both prophesied because they were prophesying to different listeners, as suggested by West, rather than being present in the exact same scene:

The preparations for the voyage were punctuated by prophetic warnings from both Helenos and Cassandra. Two prophecies seem excessive, but there were two people in Troy with prophetic powers and the poet saw fit to put them both to work. Helenos’ warnings seem to have been addressed to Paris (who, however, in Il. 5. 64 is said to have been ignorant of prophecies) together with his (p.85) shipwright. Welcker inferred that Cassandra’s warnings were addressed to the Trojans at large. 

The Epic Cycle: A Commentary On The Lost Troy Epics by Martin L. West, pg 23-24.

Similarly, the subject matter of the prophecies has been an object of speculation. One example is Davies' theory that the subject matter maybe was the death of princess Polyxena:

Alternatively, the death of Polyxena may have been prophesied (as is that of Achilles by Hector in IIiad XXII 358–360) by either of those prophetic twins Cassandra and Helenus. We know from Proclus’ summary (see page 94–95 above) that Paris’ fateful departure for Greece occasioned oracular outbursts from both περὶ τῶν μελλόντων, and the grim end of their sister Polyxena might be appropriately mentioned therein.

Fragments of Uncertain Location by Malcom Davies.

According to Sammons, the double prophecies were supposed to represent a doublet in which a parallel was drawn between Paris (the listener of Helenus) and Aeneas (the listener of Cassandra). Thus, the similar roles of the twins would be intentional, since they would represent interconnected destinies (the fall of Troy in the case of Paris, the rebuilding of a new home in the case of Aeneas):

One of the defects attributed to the lost poems of the Epic Cycle is excessive use of prophecies as a proleptic device (e.g., Griffin 1977:48, Kullmann 1960:221, Davies 1989:38-39). Often cited in this regard is a passage from Proclus’s summary of the cyclic Cypria that seems to describe how Paris’s departure for Sparta was the occasion for prophecies from both Helenus and Cassandra.  I argue that a closer reading of Proclus and consideration of oral-compositional techniques suggest that the two prophecies occupied artfully juxtaposed and complementary narrative episodes.  My reconstruction buttresses the view that Aeneas played a prominent role in the Cypria’s account of Helen’s abduction, a point that accords well with early artistic depictions of the story.  I argue further that Aeneas’s fated survival of the Trojan War was probably referenced in the poem.  The relevant portion of Proclus’s summary runs as follows (arg. 9-11 Bernabé):  ἔπειτα δὲ Ἀφροδίτης ὑποθεμένης ναυπηγεῖται, καὶ Ἕλενος περὶ τῶν μελλόντων αὐτοῖς προθεσπίζει, καὶ ἡ Ἀφροδίτη Αἰνείαν συμπλεῖν αὐτῷ κελεύει. καὶ Κασσάνδρα περὶ τῶν μελλόντων προδηλοῖ.  (“Then at Aphrodite’s suggestion Paris has ships built, and Helenus prophesies to them concerning future events, and Aphrodite orders Aeneas to sail with him. And Cassandra prophesies concerning future events.”)  It is not always recognized that Proclus’s terse style conceals at least two narrative episodes in which the prophecies may have been delivered to different internal audiences (cf. Kullmann 1960:212, Sistakou 2008:104).  These two scenes ought to be viewed as parallel but variegated narrative “doublets” as defined in Fenik’s discussion of oral-compositional techniques in Homeric epic (Fenik 1974:133-71; cf. Scodel 1984:55n.14).  In one episode, Aphrodite urges Paris to build ships, he does so, and Helenus prophesies to “them,” meaning either Paris and his companions or the Trojans in general (cf. Bethe 1922:227-28, Severyns 1950:587).  In another, Aphrodite “orders” her son to accompany Paris, and Cassandra delivers a prophecy.  But to whom does Cassandra prophesy?  My hypothesis is that this second prophecy was addressed to Aeneas.  This is made probable by the general flow of the summary and Aeneas’s presence on the scene as the addressee of a preceding speech from Aphrodite.  Moreover, it is not hard to imagine why Aeneas should have received a separate prophecy.  Already the Iliad, the Homeric Hymn to Aphrodite and the cyclic Ilioupersis reflect an interest in his fated survival of the Trojan War and subsequent kingship over the Trojans (Il. 20.300-308; H. Hymn 5.196-97; Ilioupersis arg.8-9 Bernabé). The poet of the Cypria would not have missed an opportunity to highlight the irony of Aeneas’s participation in the originating act of the war; a separate prophecy in which his survival was predicted would have provided the perfect opportunity.   

This hypothesis accords well with other indications that Aeneas in the Cypria was no mere assistant to Paris but a significant character, in particular his later role in the poem (arg. 61-62 Bernabé; cf. fr. 31) and the fact that he regularly appears on early artwork depicting Paris’s journey and perhaps reflecting the Cypria (Ghali-Kahil 1955:52-53, cf. Kopff 1981:934).  Yet Proclus’s κελεύει implies that he was at first reluctant to accompany his cousin, and he may thus have had a more positive characterization contrasting with the frivolity of Paris. Indeed, it has been argued that just such a contrast is discernible in some early artistic depictions (Galinsky 1969:40-41).  Far from an excessive use of prophecy, my reconstruction suggests a masterful use of narrative doublets to highlight parallels and contrasts between the situations of Aeneas and Paris.  Two separate scenes of prophecy would have set the stage for contrasting characterization of two heroes thrown together by their shared closeness to Aphrodite:  Paris, mortal protégé of the goddess, will have departed in full knowledge of the dire consequences for his city and people; Aeneas, Aphrodite’s son, will have gone as a reluctant participant on an ignoble mission, holding in mind the promised compensation of future greatness after the fall of Troy. 

Twin Prophecies and Divergent Fates in the Cypria by Benjamin Sammons.

Personally, I agree with the theory that Helenus and Cassandra are prophesying to different people. At least in the translation (I don’t know how it is in Greek), the text says “Then Alexandrus builds his ships at Aphrodite's suggestion, and Helenus foretells the future to him”, explicitly indicating that Helenus' listener is Paris. Then, the text says “and Aphrodite orders Aeneas to sail with him, while Cassandra prophesies as to what will happen afterwards”, the “while” characterizing that Cassandra is prophesying while Aeneas is being requested by his mother and, therefore, is present in the scene with Aeneas. Furthermore, I personally interpreted this scene as both Helenus and Cassandra being ignored, since the summary sequence is something like person prophesies > other character leaves and that's it, without any sign that the prophecy particularly affected the departure.  In Aeneas' case, if Cassandra was already cursed in The Cypria (we don't know for sure), this would naturally be a result of the curse. In Paris' case, this would simply be a character decision since Helenus doesn't share the same impediment as his sister.

Furthermore, one of the fragments from The Cypria indicates someone reporting something that happened among the gods. The speaker, however, isn’t known. One suggestion has been that this could be Helenus, based on how he seems to have knowledge of divine actions in The Iliad in the scene with Apollo and Athena (I commented on this here):

The line is quoted from Stasinus’ Cypria: It is Zeus the god, who did this and who brought all these things to fruition, that you are unwilling to name: for where there is fear, there too is shame.

Fragments of Uncertain Location by Malcom Davies.

The lines come from a speech in which it is reported that a certain god or goddess is inhibited by fear from openly railing at Zeus, the agent responsible who planted the seeds of ‘all this’. I conjecture that the speaker was Helenos, who in Il. 7. 44–53 proves able to listen in on gods’ conversations, and that the context was his warning speech before Paris’ embarkation. The deity who is not railing at Zeus will be the one who often does, Hera. Although she is not speaking out openly against his scheming (the ulterior purpose of which she does not comprehend), she is going to cause trouble for Paris and for Troy.

The Epic Cycle: A Commentary On The Lost Troy Epics by Martin L. West, pg 24.

[nausikaaa]

WIP Wednesday

thanks for tagging me @that-disabled-princess!

today i have some more Helenus and Odysseus back-and-forth. kind of a long snippet, and i've put it under a cut, because trigger warning, it contains mention of sexual assault, though it's not the focus. the epic cycle is... not a happy story, and this isn't either.

Word Count Wednesday

01/01/25: 76,450

08/01/25: 81,560

15/01/25: 83,204

22/01/25: 85,010

total words written: 7393

“If your hair grows back again, I’ll…”

“If you do anything, Apollo will make my hands look functional compared to yours.” I spit.

Odysseus bares his teeth. “Big talk from a man he hasn’t even healed. He’s the god of medicine, isn’t he? But your hands are still mangled, your nose is fucked, and don’t think I don’t see how your chest hitches every time you breathe in.”

I stare at him, my expression betraying no emotion but my humiliation turning to boiling anger in my chest. Nothing he says is something I haven’t thought for myself already, but I had foolishly hoped that nobody else had noticed how my god has all but abandoned me.

However... I'm not entirely forsaken. I don't know why he won't speak to me, or heal my broken fingers, nose, ribs. But he regrew my hair, the holiest part of me, his favourite part. And I can still see the future.

“He still shows me visions, you know.” I say, voice low and dreamlike.

“Yeah? Of what, your sisters being raped?” He pushes the door further open, letting the moonlight spill in. “Here’s some acoustic assistance.”

“Would you like to know how you die, Odysseus?”

He goes rigid, just for a moment, before relaxing again, faking nonchalance. He laughs, but it sounds false. “You’re a fraud.”

I smile despite myself, despite the screams I can hear on the breeze. My voice is so gentle, the voice reserved for whispering reassurances to my sisters, but I know he can hear me. I can’t reassure them now, but I can hurt Odysseus. The man who built the horse that destroyed Ilium. The man responsible for every atrocity that has occurred since. If the sound of their suffering follows me to my grave, I at least hope he will be haunted until his own deserved end catches up with him.

“Your son kills you.”

He’s silent. So am I. Letting my words hang in the air, I wait like a snake hidden in long grass.

“I don’t believe you.” He says finally, but then he makes the mistake of looking at me.

I tilt my head. “I thought you were a good liar?”

“Goodnight, Helenus.” His voice trembles just the slightest bit, and he shuts the door with a soft thud instead of his usual slam.

Odysseus is indeed killed by his son in the myths, but not the one he expects. Before the Trojan War, Odysseus and his wife Penelope have a son, Telemachus. then on his journey home, he spends a year in a relationship with the goddess/sorceress Circe. unbeknownst to him, Circe also has a son with him, Telegonus.

my idea is that Odysseus initially pushes the prophecy aside in favour of simply surviving one thing after another and is happy to be reunited with Telemachus, as we see in the Odyssey. but that changes as time goes on. After twenty years of stress and fighting, he finds it difficult to settle and accept that he is safe. When his family are invited to visit Helenus and his family in Epirus for a trade agreement, he remembers his words and begins to spiral.

He grows distrustful and resentful towards Telemachus, who doesn't understand and feels equally resentful. Eventually, he sequesters himself away from his palace and family, suspicious of all strangers.

Telegonus shows up, looking for his long lost father, but when he finds Odysseus, he is mistaken for an assassin and attacked. Telegonus strikes back in self defence, grazing him with his spear, which was coated in poison by Circe. Odysseus is immediately incapacitated, but it takes him days to die. In that time, Telegonus nurses him and tells him his story, and Odysseus realises he pushed his other son away for nothing and caused his own death with his paranoia, but it's too late.

If he hadn't thrown the suffering he caused in Helenus's face, he wouldn't have recieved the prophecy that led to his sad end. A deserved death indeed.

tags and hellos: @forabeatofadrum @cutestkilla @run-for-chamo-miles @roomwithanopenfire @prettygoododds @bookish-bogwitch @j-nipper-95 @youarenevertooold @orange-peony @confused-bi-queer @aristocratic-otter @artsyunderstudy @thewholelemon @alexalexinii @hushed-chorus @you-remind-me-of-the-babe @martsonmars @meanjeansjeans and @leithillustration

[dhampiravidi]

ancient greek/trojan war reincarnation au

After he'd torn his hair, beat his breast, and screamed his voice hoarse, Akhilleus was done living. He was alive, yes, and he would be until someone killed him, but he was done living. Patroklos, his lifelong love and friend, was dead, taken away from him forever. And it was all his fault. So once he could find the strength to stand, he put on the armor his mother commissioned for him and clawed his way through Hektor's people until the prince, Patroklos's killer, showed himself. He avenged his love. Then he took his anger out on those marked as the enemy until Apollo's poisoned arrow granted him the death he so desperately craved.

Once he reached Elysium, he searched for Patroklos, who embraced him. The man was sad to know that Akhilleus had suffered, but happy to see him again. The two were glad to be together. But Akhilleus missed the land of the living. He told Odysseus as much when the man visited the Underworld for answers on his way home to Ithaca. There was no lyre to play, no sunlight to enjoy, and really nothing to look forward to. But there was the River Lethe, the River of Forgetfulness that could wipe a spirit's memories in preparation for their reincarnation. Patroklos proposed that he and Akhilleus be reborn, for another chance at life. Akhilleus agreed to the plan, but he needed to make sure that he'd see his love again--all of them.

---

September 9th, 2006

"My thanks, Lord Aidoneus. You are most generous," Pogue whispered in Ancient Greek, eyes closed as his body repaired itself and his mind wandered to days past.

"Huh?" Reid and Ty had just come back from the vending machine. With one of their friends off on a suicide mission and the other in a coma, it was hard to simply sit quietly. But what else was there to do, other than take a few minutes to collect their thoughts?

---

Two Years Later

It was a shy kiss, one much softer than the first he'd shared with Jayn months before and the (technically not-first) one he'd gladly accepted from Caleb. But the moment his lips connected with Cassia's, long-forgotten magic sparked in the minds of the four young lovers. Jayn and Caleb regarded each other, first with curiosity, then with surprise, fondness, and a firm hug.

"Patroklos," Deidamia-Jayn murmured, "It's so good to see you again." She pulled back, and Patroklos-Caleb rested his forehead on hers as he smiled.

"What became of your son?" he asked her, and she frowned.

"Little shit gave me to his slave, Helenus. Not that the man wasn't handsome or kind, but--seriously?" She huffed, then looked over at the man who had fathered her child and joined her spirit with his.

Akhilleus-Pogue held Briseis-Cassia close. She was shaking, crying quietly. "You...y-you died, you both did...left me with them," she sobbed, and he didn't know what to say. He'd never been the best at consoling people. And she was right: he and Patroklos were her lovers, not to mention the only men who cared about her in the Achaean army. Once they died, she had nothing, and could do nothing but leave Troy for an unfamiliar man and his unfamiliar home.

"I'm sorry," he whispered, pressing another kiss to her trembling lips. She looked up at him, holding his face in her hands. Somehow, she managed to smile.

"You raided my city and treated me like your queen in Troy. And then you made sure I'd never be alone again. At least you did that much," Briseis-Cassia said, trying to hide her pain and shock. She glanced over at Patroklos-Caleb right when Akhilleus-Pogue did. With a small gesture, she told Akhilleus-Pogue to go on ahead. He let her go and took in the sight of a living, unharmed Patroklos-Caleb, his Patroklos.

"You're an idiot," Akhilleus-Pogue muttered before he yanked his childhood friend into a passionate kiss. It was so strong, Patroklos-Caleb groaned into it, slipping his hand into the shorter boy's hair to keep him close. They snapped and shifted, movements and sounds becoming more erotic and sensual than angry and mournful by the second. Even when they were both hard, they refused to part, so they didn't notice the girls in their own lust until they had all found release.

"What did you do?" Deidamia-Jayn asked Akhilleus-Pogue, once the four of them had all caught their breath, "They told me to go to the Lethe before I could be judged. I thought I fucked up so badly that I had to start all over." They laughed.

"It was Caleb's idea--"

"You said you didn't like being dead."

"I didn't! But I didn't want to live without you, either," Akhilleus-Pogue pleaded, "Any of you." Deidamia-Jayn squeezed his hand and leaned into him, the way she usually did when either he or she got upset. He kissed the top of her head. "I saw Hermes going by, so I asked him to ask Hades for an audience. I dunno if Hades would've agreed if Persephone wasn't there...He said we'd have to wait, but he'd let us live again, just once. But we wouldn't remember each other until we kissed."

"Good thing Cass wore her sexy lip gloss for you." The four laughed.

@in--somnium

[vichypnos]

ah yes. about that one helenus article.

i finished it. unfortunately, it is completely in russian, but perhaps it will be normal with auto translation.

moreover, i was accepted to the conference. even though i am a first-year student.

it is today and i am nervous af

[audaciiaearchive]

i love you in every language and in every song. ( helenus to apollo )

It's about the yearning || Accepting

"Oh, careful, Helenus. You're flattering me, and I might just not leave you alone if you keep up your pretty words."

Apollo smiles, a thing as bright and as lovely as the sun itself. He's no stranger to people singing their praises to him, but he'll always have a soft spot in his heart for Helenus. A hand reaches over to caress his cheek, his skin warm to the touch, and he leans forward, gently pressing their lips together for a moment before he pulls away.

"I love you, too," he murmurs, their lips brushing as he speaks. "And no matter where you are or what you do, all you have to do is call my name, and I'll be there. I'm always listening. You never need to fear that I'll abandon you. It will never happen."

[angelcakealec]

Alec frowned at that. "Well...what does he want? Can't you just give it to him so he's goes away?" Hayden hadn't told them anything about why the fae was rampaging in the first place. At least not to Alec or even Jace it seemed. Which wasn't unheard of really. From what Alec understood about Hayden was he didn't offer information unless he was certain they needed to know it. He'd gotten used to being in the know back in New York. And was a little bitter about being kept in the dark like this. He puffed out a breath. He smiled a little when Helenus said he could handle it. "Yeah but...." He bit his lip. "You shouldn't really have to. If he's doing something potentially against the accords...its our job to take care of it. But..." He shrugged a little sullenly. "We're not meant to do it alone."

When Alec pulled back from the haphazard kiss, he ducked his head a little. Unsure of whether or not he wanted to see the expression on Helenus' face or not. But morbid curiosity won out and he looked at him. Then, he smiled. Helenus did. Alec was too stunned to smile really. And it was a nice smile, one that made a little flutter of anticipation bubble in his belly. And he did consider just leaning forward and doing it again. But caution was always the better part of valour. At least in Alec's case anyway. He bit his lip to keep from laughing at what Helenus said. "Sorry." He said soberly. Though it pleased him to know that Helenus felt his nerves were in question.

Alec took a little breath and nodded. "I'm sure. Probably more sure than I ought to be but..." He tapped his temple a little sheepishly. "Head trauma." And he laughed. Because really that's all he could do. Because bursting into tears was not an option for him. Not one he was willing to accept anyway. It really wasn't all that uncommon. Head injuries among nephilim. Jace had suffered quite a number of them. Probably indicative of his reckless behavior. Alec smiled sadly. Because Jace was still a point of contention.

"Oh..." Alec said, a little unsettled by the idea of needing to move. But, he supposed it made sense. The sheets were really dirty. And Alec himself was dirtier still. But he couldn't help but worry over the idea of a shower. Though as pleasant as the thought was. Mostly only because he was worried about his leg. But, whatever the fae had done healing wise, there wasn't any pain. So it was likely fine. He flushed a little at the offer of pjs. "You wear pjs?" He asked, letting his eyes hesitantly roam over Helenus's bare torso. "I mean. Thank you. That's very kind of you."

He was still rather reluctant to move, eyeing Helenus' offered hands with some trepidation. But he took them anyway and let the fae help him maneuver his tired and sore body off the bed. His legs wobbled a bit, but he was mostly fine. He met his eyes, and the look he found there caught his breath in his throat. It was a very vulnerable expression. One Alec found he didn't like on the handsome fae's face. His eyes softened, that overwhelming feeling still gnawing at him. The urge to cry still close to the service. But this was fine. This would all be fine. He had to tell himself that. Because knowing that it wasn't would only unravel him faster.

Helenus moved suddenly, wrapping his arms around Alec. Alec gasped in turn. Because he hadn't been expecting it at all. But something broke inside of him. Something that had been a part of him for so long he couldn't remember when it even got there in the first place. But, with his gentle touch. Helenus knocked it down. Like it was a tower of blocks. Alec took a shuddering breath, his body shaking with the effort of it. His arms came around Helenus in return, his fingers burying themselves in the soft feathers of his wings. He melted against him. Fitting there quite perfectly really. He would have laughed at the simplicity of it. But he was still so close to the edge, he found he couldn't. Pressing his face into Helenus' neck, he let go of his control, clutching at the fae. Even if it was just for an instant. Just so he could shed that debilitating fear, that panic, that rage, just all the things he had been feeling.

Helenus could see the protectiveness blazing in Alec's eyes. It did something to his heart that it was for him. And it echoed the fierce protectiveness he'd felt for the nephilim tonight. Well, not just tonight he supposed but before tonight he hadn't be in a situation that had summoned it to that degree. He thought for a moment of the best way to describe it. "He sees me as an obstacle, someone keeping him from what he wants. But he's nothing I can't handle,"

This kiss was so sudden that it caught him off guard. His wings flared slightly to keep him balanced. It brushed the edge of his lips but he didn't think it was his cheek Alec had been aiming for. At least he found he rather hoped it hadn't been. He smiled again, a softer somehow more intimate smile. "Any time," he replied. And he would. He'd save Alec over and over again until the end of time if he had to. "Though I think my nerves would thank you if I didn't need to for sometime," he joked lightly. In reality the prospect that he could have lost Alec tonight terrified him. Not that he could claim he was his of course.

He stilled at Alec's words, surprised again. Pleasantly so. Because getting to sleep next to Alec, especially after what they'd just been through, was exactly what he wanted. To be close to him and know he was safe. "As long as you're sure," he said.

"I do think I should change the sheets though," he mused, his gaze drifting away from Alec for the first time in a long while, to the dirty sheets. "And I can lend you some pjs if you'd like to shower and change," he offered.

He stood then and offered his hands to help Alec up. His sisters words about how tired his body would be after everything ringing in his head. When he was up Helenus met his gaze straight on. He was once against filled with that strange mix of fear that he'd almost lost him and relief that he was ok. So he didn't bother resisting the urge to hug him.

[archiveddvrpg]

Congratulations, KAY! You’ve been accepted for the role of HELENUS. Admin Rogue: I will be honest and say I must have read this app six times since we got it, minimum. There was something about your words that made me want to live in them forever, to tell Hugo all my secrets and let him tell me his. Hugo is so easy to turn saintly or push toward martyrdom, and your Hugo is a good person with all his flaws on display, humanity shining forth so clearly from him that he breaks my heart. He reminds us that sometimes God’s will brings down the crusades; he understands peace the same as he has made war, and Hugo knows the sanctity of blood in how he cannot wash it from his hands. I think I fell a little in love with him in this app, in spite of his Jimmy Buffet obsession, and that’s when I knew we couldn’t go another day without him! Please read over the checklist and send in your blog within 24 hours.

WELCOME TO THE MOB.

OUT OF CHARACTER

Alias | Obiwan Kaynobi

Age | 25

Preferred Pronouns | She/her

Activity Level | I feel like I’m active on the dash at least twice a week, and if I’m not posting replies I’m able to lurk the dash on mobile and plot on discord. But, with the quarantine and finally getting into a rhythm, I think I’ll be able to get on the dash more often!

Timezone | The Twilight Zone jk it’s PST now!

Triggers | REMOVED

How did you find the rp?  | One day Pandora showed up in my brain and I couldn’t get rid of her. Now Hugo also lives there with his Catholic guilt and honestly it’s a nightmare.

Current/Past RP Accounts | Here’s Panda’s blog!

IN CHARACTER

Character | Helenus, Hugo Kim. Hu-go, (German); meaning mind. Kim, (Korean); meaning gold, iron.

What drew you to this character? | Honestly, the thing that struck me about Hugo was that he’s the guiding light for so many people - and it’s ironic. He’s the prophet of the people, telling them each Sunday to do well, to be good and then he turns around and commands the other Capulet soldiers to harm others. And honestly, I think there are times that Hugo questions the good word. His hands are stained with blood and it doesn’t matter how many confessions he sits through because they’ll be stained red forever.

I also love that despite his affiliation with the Capulets, he does hold sermons on Sundays. Religion is the one thing that he has left of his parents - his mother - and Cosimo can pry that from his cold, dead hands. There’s a sort of natural confidence Hugo exudes when preaching and it spills over into his missions. In his bio it says, “They flock and he guides them, a SHEPHERD to Cosimo Capulet’s people.” He’s someone that people will listen to regardless of whether he’s leading the mission or not.

But, the one thing that really stood out to me with Hugo is his devotion. Whether it’s to his mother, God, Halcyon, he’s 100% devoted no matter what. He puts the time needed to do a job well done and I think that’s something most people look over with Hugo. There is no person more devoted to the morals he’s bound to than him. It’s something that makes him stand out from the rest of the gang members.

What is a future plot idea you have in mind for the character? |

a. Forgive me, Father, for I have sinned. The Cathedral is technically Capulet territory, but Lawernce wandered in one night and let every sin fall from his lips, tethering the two of them together whether the liked it or not. This encounter is something that can and will tear Hugo apart. He’s bound to both the church and the Capulets - neither of which he ever planned on crossing. Watching him struggle between his faiths is something I would love to see happen on the dash.

b. Sister Saint Monica, you’ve got me on my knees. Halcyon, his personal angel sent from Cosimo. She’s his guiding light, his angel of mercy, the one he’ll pray to each night - and I would love to see how far he’s willing to go for her. How much blood will he spill in order to feed the person he sees as a God? And of course, how will that guilt manifest after he’s done it? How often will he find himself on the bathroom floor, shaking and sobbing from the faces that haunt his dreams and the souls that claw at his throat all for the sake of Halcyon?

c. Bathe me in holy water and erase my sins. Killing his own brother is something that Hugo has yet to forgive himself for. The memory of his parents on the floor, the gun in his hand, the sounds coming from his mouth after he pulled the trigger play on repeat in his mind daily. How does he deal with the constant onslaught of this? Does he find himself crying in the confessional over what he’s done or does he simply let the memory play out and avoid thinking about it? It’d also be interesting if another character knew what he did and used it as leverage over him.

Are you comfortable with killing off your character? | As long as he gets to marry Brat first, feel free to kill him. That can be the first and last thing I do with him, please just let him marry them.

IN DEPTH

In-Character Interview:

What is your favorite place in Verona? | We recommend looking at the location page and reading it over to figure out where your character’s favorite place is – if it’s not their own house/room.

He’s positive that the woman across from him expects to hear the Cathedral. But, the stained glass and golden pews have long since turned sour to Hugo. Now, they remind him of blood and guns and the rush of guilt that burns in his throat like bile. He thinks of the theater, how he and Albert used to hide underneath the seats to sneak into a second showing. The library, once a place that he was able to roam without hesitation and devour any book he desired, now stings in his memory since it became off-limits. Finally, the corners of his lips quirk up. “Twelfth Night Museum holds a dear place in my heart. I can’t say much about the attendees who show up at night, but during the day it’s beautiful.”

What does your typical day look like?

Hugo pauses for a moment, mulling over the words before he speaks. He glances at the watch on his wrist, then his shoes, and finally meets the eye of the interviewer. The interview is for a profile on him, a puff piece to lighten the city when all it knows is death and destruction. “Well, it’s Saturday. I host evening mass then head over to Phoenix and Turtle for the bread donation. My days are typically the same, depending on whether or not the farmers market is here.” He graces her with another smile, but it doesn’t reach his eyes. What he leaves out is that his nights are filled with the scent of gun powder and his fingers brushing eyelids shut, a prayer whispered under his breath.

What has been your biggest mistake thus far?

How was he supposed to pick just one mistake? There had been plenty of missteps through the years that would certainly be labeled the worst. The stolen liquor from the bodega, the moans in the backseat of a car, the night he killed Albert. Far too many things have been deemed his biggest mistake. “Even I’m allowed to have secrets.” Hugo glances out the window and watches the couples walk by. They’ll have to try harder than this to get him to reveal what it is. “That one is between me and myself.”

What has been the most difficult task asked of you?

His gut reaction is to say preaching his sermon. The words of the good book that fall from his lips and into the ears of the parish are nothing but lies - but now was not the time nor place to discuss that matter. “There are times I’m asked to stop helping those in need. I have to respect their wishes, but it’s not in my nature to walk away from those who need help.” He thinks of the dying who were left to bleed after he shot at them, of the unfortunate souls who end up injured by falling into debt with them, of the addicts who pump their veins with Theo’s latest experiment and can’t escape the warmth the drug gives them. Ignoring these souls only to have them haunt him later is the most difficult thing he’s done.

What are your thoughts on the war between the Capulets and the Montagues?

He nearly chokes as he takes a sip from the mug. As the interview continued, it seemed as if the questions were diving deeper and deeper into unsafe territory. Perhaps it would’ve been smart to let one of the emissaries approve the list of questions before he arrived. “As a man of God, I can only hope that no more bloodshed happens.” His lips press into a thin line. “Hasn’t our city seen enough?” His answer is honest, one that he never dared utter before now. The war his boss wages against the Montagues is one that he finds despicable. So much has been lost in the names of each family and yet, they continue to take more and more and more.

Extras: Bold of you to assume I don’t have any extras. Here is his mockblog, a Pinterest board, and as always, let me sprinkle some hcs here:

Hugo’s very into the arts. His favorite artist is M.C. Escher.

This man is not straight. Local disaster bi preacher is at your service.

There’s a photo of his parents tucked into his wallet so he’s able to carry them everywhere.

He does yoga whenever he gets the chance.

Hugo’s a huge Jimmy Buffet fan, I’m sorry but it’s true.

He’s also a huge Florence and The Machine fan so it balances out.

More often than not, there’s a bottle of cheap scotch in his chambers in the Cathedral. It’s hidden inside of a hollowed-out Bible.

[archivesdiveronarpg]

Congratulations, PIKA! You’ve been accepted for the role of HELENUS. Pika, I’ve been waiting for a Helenus application for a long, long time and I can say with utmost certainty that your application did NOT disappoint. Quite the opposite! You nailed every single aspect of Hugo down so perfectly I almost can’t believe it. His mannerisms and dialogue in your interview and sample were beautifully wary, and you get a sense of his devotion to God and why he’s so admired as a priest - but with one line you also nailed why he excels as an emissary. I can’t wait to see our beautiful, conflicted, weary priest on our dash. Please read over the checklist and send in your blog within twenty-four hours. 

                                                                         WELCOME TO THE MOB.

Out of Character

Alias | pika.

Age | eighteen.

Preferred Pronouns | she/her/hers or they/them/theirs, i’m honestly not super picky.

Activity Level | tbqh…not great? i can’t promise anything more than my best, which is usually activity at least every other day (though i try to get on daily!). probably a 6/10, if i were to give it a number.

Timezone | pst.

Permission | ye sure!

In Character

Character | helenus ;; hugo kim

What drew you to this character? | i’m not gonna lie, hugo definitely snuck up on me. the paradoxical image of the sinning holy man was striking, but as i never read troilus and cressida, i didn’t quite feel comfortable enough with the character to apply the first time i peeped around diverona. so, this became an application for puck. anyway, fast forward a few days: i missed the friday acceptances, i looked into helenus a little (both the shakespeare and greek versions), and hooooo boy the inspiration just kind of…came? i mean, there’s a lot to draw from between the bio, the mythology, and the play.

to actually answer your question, i think what drew me to hugo was his internal conflict. hugo is a study in dichotomy, in balance. as a priest, he lives in a world of black and white, yet his reality bleeds an ugly, mottled grey (except for when it bleeds red, kek). he walks a precipice between faith and doubt (or more accurately, faith and love), and more than anything, i get the feeling he dreams on wings broken by reality. i’m not normally one partial to the good guys (i’m more of a chaotic-neutral kinda gal), but the thing with hugo is that he both is and isn’t a good guy, if that makes any sense. he’s a good man who does (has done, will do) bad things. he’s got vices that’ll come back to bite him in the ass. he’s an angel in free-fall, and i’ll be damned if that’s not intriguing to me.

What is a future plot idea you have in mind for the character? |

► 001. i am the lord thy god (comedy at its highest reveals a tragedy, and darling, you’re the biggest laugh of all)

living such a juxtaposed double life isn’t healthy. i’d like to explore how hugo is affected by the hypocrisy of his actions. how can a man preach kindness to all in one moment, then turn around and promise threats in the next? one of hugo’s biggest struggles is between balancing his role as a man of god and a man of the montagues. and obviously, this causes a lot of moral conundrums. at some point, the balance must tip.  i want hugo to make a choice one way or the other: fate or faith? it doesn’t have to be an explicit choice (in fact, it likely wouldn’t be), but rather, defiance or compliance with an order.  i want to see an embittered hugo, a cynical hugo. a hugo questioning his faith (or really, his identity). faith is such a central part of hugo’s character; what is he without it? is he anything without it? gimme a hugo wrecked by the war—just another casualty. how will this affect him? he is, essentially, pitting his family against his personal ethics—two fundamental aspects of himself. i imagine it may very well tear him apart, either figuratively or literally, depending on his choice.

► 002. thou shalt have no other gods before me (vacant eyes and hearts and hands)

all of hugo’s connections are fun, but oho, cinead’s. cinead’s. cinead terrifies hugo. hugo believes in one God, but to deny the power of the witches is a unique kind of heresy in which even hugo is reluctant to partake. there is only one way to reconcile this: hugo believes cinead to be the devil. well. perhaps not the devil, but his devil. i’d like to see the evolution of their relationship, how the unstoppable force meets the immovable object. hugo…doesn’t pride himself on being good at manipulating people, exactly, but he is aware he’s good at it. however, he’s outmatched by the witch, and i don’t know that he knows it. it might take him a while before he even realizes how easily he’s manipulated by cinead. interestingly, this is a plot that could break hugo, but is also possibly the only one that allows him to be truly free—after all, the hedonist is slave only to his own desires. so. yeah.

► 003. ye shall erect these stones which i command thee (though you shroud yourself in white, even you bleed red)

as a priest, hugo’s first and only devotion is to god. and he’s been good about that. but he’s still only a man. i’d like to see hugo form a romantic attachment to somebody. bonus points if it’s a guy (i hc hugo as being panromantic demisexual), because hi internalized institutional homophobia. the world of romance is a dangerous new frontier for hugo, and exploring that has a 70:1 chance of ending in angst, because, y’know…jesus.

In Depth

What is your favorite place in Verona?

“You’d probably expect me to say the Cathedral, wouldn’t you?” Hugo chuckles, steepling his fingers on his desk. “I mean, I suppose I ought to say the Cathedral, seeing how it is my home parish. And I do love it, I do. It is, without a doubt, the most beautiful house of worship I have had the honor of laying my eyes upon, much less preaching in. But—”

(…but in Verona, the Cathedral is not a place for the Lord. It is a place for Them, and Hugo cannot help the seed of resentment that buds in his heart when he thinks of their arrogance, of their flagrant insistence to squander their power in the futile pursuit of more. They have deluded themselves into playing god, have lost sight of His way in their games of war. Pride is perhaps the most deadly of the sins, but it is not the only one.)

“—but I must admit to be rather partial to the library. I love books.” His small office is a testament to his statement. Books and writing are strewn across the room in an organized sort of chaos; there appears to be some kind of system, but it’s incomprehensible to the untrained eye. “Stories, facts…you could live entire lives in a library.”

What does your typical day look like?

“Busy.” There’s a rueful twist to Hugo’s smile. “It’s Lent, which means we must prepare for the Easter Triduum alongside regular mass…which means, basically, there’s a lot going on.” And that’s before he factors in his emissary work, which has been anything but typical since Alvise’s death. “Still, my day is pretty structured. I’ll wake up, pray, eat something light. Then I’ll go to the Cathedral and assist with business there for the day. How long I stay varies, depending on my, ah…personal business. Eventually, I’ll find my way home for the night. I always end the day with a prayer.”

What are your thoughts on the war between the Capulets and the Montagues?

Hugo heaves a heavy sigh. “War is…” Ugly. Profitable. Terrible. Beautiful. He trails off, seemingly unsatisfied with the direction of his thought.

A moment passes. Another. He tries again. “One misconception people have about the Lord, I feel, is that He is responsible for war, for suffering. I think people misunderstand his power; God is Almighty and omnipotent, but also gifted us with autonomy. One of His greatest gifts is the freedom from him—the freedom to make our world. He relinquished control so that we may be free.” His voice lightens with a levity that only feels somewhat forced. “I don’t know that I’d call this war, yet, but for all our sakes, I pray it doesn’t become one. Things are already enough, as it is.”

He stands up; there is business to attend to. “There are a lot of things I could say about the war, but let’s leave it at this: may God have mercy on their souls.” He sighs. “On all our souls.”

In-Character Para Sample:

One truth that Hugo couldn’t deny: emissary work was not unlike addressing a congregation. In both, the man was the messenger—an arm of a higher being, with no real power of his own. An effective messenger understood this; an effective messenger didn’t need power. After all, why waste your breath preaching your own insignificance when you can channel the will of a god? No, persuasion was the most effective tool available to the mortal man. Though the body belonged to the Lord, the heart belonged to the individual.

And there were few people as good as playing heartstrings as the man who looked back at Hugo in the mirror. The man sighed, tugging one hand through his hair and another across his plain black shirt. Hugo’s vestments laid neatly folded behind him, the celebratory white and green a flash of brightness from the mass he concluded only an hour earlier. The mass’ other holdover, the joyful buzz from performing a service, had long since faded, only to be replaced by a new (though not unfamiliar) sensation: the buzz of anticipation. There were fewer things Hugo hated more than being called to work immediately following a mass. He had been acting as the Montague’s emissary for long enough that it didn’t phase him—he even had taken to wearing all black under his alb and vestments, just in case—but switching from a celebrant to a businessman was immeasurably draining.

Still, when duty called, he answered. Casting his reflection one more sigh, he grabbed the mobile off the corner of his desk and exited his tiny office. He took his time walking through the Cathedral’s hallways, nodding to everyone he passed in greeting but not making any effort at initiating conversation. He couldn’t help but blink when he exited the building; it was an overwhelmingly sunny day, truly worthy of being called the Lord’s Day.

Hugo headed toward the spot of darkness in the light, a sleek black sedan parked on the street corner. He nodded at the driver, an unremarkable associate whose name always escaped Hugo, in greeting, and settled into the passenger’s seat as the vehicle roared into motion.

“You’re late, Father,” the driver said.

Hugo caught the sigh that threatened to escape by the skin of his teeth—it was a terrible habit, the sighing, really. “Yes, well. Patience is a virtue, you know. Besides, I had a few matters to attend to at the church before I left.”

The driver snorted, an inelegant sound. “Pft. The church has been around for a couple thousand years. It could’ve waited ‘til after you did your business for the Family. Should’ve. Apparently you’re meetin’ with someone important.”

“More important than the—!” Hugo was scandalized. Did this heretic not realize that Easter was in a month? No, he reasoned, composing himself, probably not. The priest coughed into his fist, and continued in a more measured tone. “Ahem. Yes. I’ve been told this is a…delicate deal.”

That morning, Hugo had been told to pay a visit to a dealer associated with the Montagues. Apparently, the fool had been keeping a higher portion of his profits than the family liked, so they had decided to send the priest in to remind the man of the immorality of theft. Well, Hugo had supposed, you couldn’t deny the Montagues had a sense of humor.

Their conversation lulled into silence as the drove through the city. Hugo watched as it flew by in the window, nice neighborhoods bleeding into slums bleeding into historical centers. They slowed in a middling part of town—you wouldn’t take a tourist there, perhaps, but the area had a familiar vibrancy unique to locals. The driver pulled up to a rather nondescript home that looked to have been repurposed as an apartment complex.

“Ya got a gun on you, Father?” The driver asked.

“Unfortunately, yes.” It weighed heavily in Hugo’s pocket, another habit adopted in Verona. “Wait here until I get out. I pray the proceedings won’t escalate, but it never hurts to be prepared.”

“Aw, Father, you don’t need to worry. Who in their right mind’s gonna shoot at a priest? That’s, like, a one-way ticket to hell.”

And extorting drug dealers isn’t? The sardonic thought went unsaid as Hugo gave the driver a final acknowledgement and exited the car. A cursory glance at the tenant list gave him his final destination, and he entered the building with a pride he didn’t feel, a one-man processional sent to deliver the word of God to the heretic. Upon reaching the intended’s door, he knocked once, twice. A man, presumably the target, opened it—what a fool, Hugo thought—and regarded the priest with a wary glance, hand snaking to the waistband of his pants. So he knew why the angel had been sent to his door. Good. That made Hugo’s job much easier. Primly, he adjusted his shirt collar.

“Tell me,” he said, voice gentle but knowing, “did you know that theft is a sin?”

Time to go to work.

Extras:

a playlist–

ultralight beam ;; kanye west

( i’m tryna keep my faith, but i’m lookin’ for more / somewhere i can feel safe / and end my holy war )

talking to myself ;; gallant

( how’d my own molecules forsake me? / atoms changed behind my back )

blessings ;; chance the rapper

( don’t believe in kings, believe in the kingdom )

fall away ;; twenty one pilots

( every time i feel my selfish ambition is taking my vision / and my crime is my sentence / repentance is taking commission )

in the woods somewhere ;; hozier

( his bone exposed / his hind was lame / i raised a stone to end his pain )

day n nite (nightmare) ;; kid cudi

( within his dreams he sees the life he made / the pain is deep / a silent sleeper, you won’t hear a peep )

fade ;; kanye west

( when no one ain’t around / i think i think too much / ain’t nobody watchin’ / i just fade away )

medicine ;; daughter

( you’ve got a warm heart / you’ve got a beautiful brain / but it’s disintegrating )

hc’s & misc. bits

hugo is technically ordained as an eastern catholic priest, but is familiar with roman catholic tradition.

hugo is fluent in russian and italian. he speaks the latter with a trace of an accent of the former. he also speaks pretty good english, and is fair in classical latin.

this was kinda obvious in the para sample, but hugo sighs a lot?? the man is tired; let him live. other ticks include pacing and holding his hands on his hips. he gesticulates a lot when he speaks, especially when impassioned.

he keeps an extensive collection of herbal teas. his favorite is oolong, though his daily staple is earl grey.

hugo and albert used to call each other every week. hugo feels guilty because he’s been letting their phone calls slide recently.

hugo tries not to curse, and is usually pretty successful. when he starts breaking out the expletives, you can safely assume shit has hit the fan.

hugo claims that his plain choice in clothes is strictly a practice in practicality and professionalism. this is true. it is also true, however, that he’s otherwise hopeless at picking outfits. don’t bother flashing your rolexes and red bottoms at him, because it’ll go right over his head.

i feel like i was a little heavy on the angsty/struggling side of hugo in the app, but he really doesn’t come across as such in his interactions. he’s kind of a nerd tbh.

anyway, thanks for reading! i wanna apologize for playing hard and loose with catholicism; i’m a minimalist catholic, but there are definitely aspects here that may or may not reflect the actual rl church haha

[littlesparklight]

Some general observations about archery in the epics in specific, and Greek myth more generally;

-archery/bow and arrow was never a particularly favoured weapon and could straight up be one signifier (among several) of a coward -at the same time, you do have culture hero characters like Heracles wielding bow and arrows! But, his most iconic representations are with the club, not as an archer, even when he has a couple myths where the bow and arrows are important (one very notably after Heracles has left the bow and arrows behind).

In the Iliad, here's the characters who actually use archery in battle; -Paris -Helenus, once -unnamed, general Locrians, though I believe these are also said to be armed with slings at another point? -Teucer (-general Trojans? I forget if they're specifically mentioned as such, but it's very probable) Meriones, once

Here's the characters who use/carry bow and arrow outside of battle; -Odysseus (night raid; he does not use it once despite Meriones giving him his own bow and arrows to bring along, not even to stop Dolon) -Dolon (on the night raid, presumably he also uses it in battle, however) -Teucer (funeral games) -Meriones (funeral games, again)

Odysseus is an interesting case, since both by how he takes (someone else's!) bow and arrows with him on the night raid, and the whole ~special bow~ subplot in the Odyssey we know he should be known as an archer. But despite this, he hasn't brought his own, special in some way, bow to the situation where it would be most useful (the war at Troy). In fact, as far as we know he seems to either not have/use bows of his own at all in the war, and specifically in the Iliad, having to borrow from Meriones when he does take one! (Though we have to give that for some reason neither Diomedes nor Odysseus had weapons with them to the night council and had to borrow others, who had brought weapons along.) Shrödinger's archer, in a way.

Tecuer does use archery in battle. However, while he's Achaean and closer to a "big name", is also very specifically not fully Achaean. He's half-Trojan. Half-barbarian, if you will, someone who "of course" would use such a weapon. He gets to be effective at it and gets no flak for it. But this is probably because he's technically Achaean, so he's partially "protected" from the more negative views of archery, while, as half-Trojan, he's a "safe" character to make a combat archer.

The unnamed Locrians are tertiary Achaean forces at best. Little Ajax, as their leader, is someone who also commits a specific sacrilege at the sack that gets both himself and the rest of the Achaeans in trouble afterwards.

Meriones only uses his bow and arrows outside a war situation (in which he only uses sword and spears, like a "proper" warrior). So this is similar to Odysseus' (non-)use of archery while still nominally being an archer. Edited to amend (11/12/2023): since I stumbled upon it while skimming for something else in the Iliad, Meriones does use bow and arrow, once, in his several appearances and multiples of attempted and succeeded kills. It doesn't, in the end, change much of anything in terms of the body of the text. Meriones' one kill with bow and arrow is passed over extremely quickly and he's very obviously not actually cast as an archer in combat like either Teucer or Paris.

Paris' use of bow and arrow, despite that he's effective with it, is basically our parade example of "using this weapon makes you less manly/less of a proper warrior". If some of the Achaeans present use of archery in an as "acceptable" form as possible, which is still treated as something secondary compared to other weapons, then Paris is on the other extreme. Diomedes shows us with sharp clarity how an archer is seen, despite that the weapon is clearly capable of getting any warrior off the battlefield.

[pelideswhore]

Soooo, I want an essay. Please tell me how the Trojan would have gone in any level of detail had Paris given the apple to Hera or Athena.

I’m afraid I can’t go into too much detail, and this is more personal musings than essay, but nevertheless thank you for asking! Also thank you to @mitsybubbles for helping me out with this :)

First of all, technically, there could be no other path for the Judgement of Paris because fate rules it. Fate says there had to be a war in which Troy would fall, so that will happen. But for the sake of this ask, I’ll ignore that for a moment.

Now, regardless of who Paris would’ve chosen, a war would’ve started. Agamemnon was using Helen’s kidnapping as an excuse anyway, he had been waiting to start a war for actual political/economical purposes for a while now.

I’ll start with Hera’s route:

If Paris chooses Hera, he’d be king over a large kingdom—that was the promise. This is not a Barbie film (sadly) so we have to use some logic here, he can’t just become king automatically. When he is accepted back into the Trojan royal family, he is at least 4th in line to the throne. He has no inheritance to any other kingdom so becoming king would require the deaths of at least Priam, Hector, Deiphobus and Helenus before him. There is no way they would all die shortly one after the other excluding illness (unlikely since they’re favored by Apollo) and targeted murder. Either way, it’s depressing for Paris. Beyond that, he really wouldn’t make a great king? He’d be depressed and out of place. And, like I said, it wouldn’t prevent a war. The larger a kingdom gets, the bigger threat it poses to other kingdoms. If the Achaean army didn’t consider Troy a threat at that point and start a defensive war, Trojan leaders would get power drunk and start the war themselves. Using the oath, the Greeks would win.

Conclusion: Hera path is a bad path.

Athena path next.

Athena promised Paris skill in battle and victory in war. In that sense he’d be taking over the current position Hector or Achilles have in the Iliad respectively. Only problem: Both Hector and Achilles die. Paris would be the target of every opponent. Not fun. Beyond that, Athena has a thing for controlling her heroes’ every step and she isn’t scared of using manipulation or psychological tricks on her heroes. Odysseus and Diomedes deal with that pretty well because they’re on Athena’s level in some way or another. Paris has close to no points if similarity with Athena (unlike Aphrodite). Athena would quite literally drive him mad. Also, like before, Paris explicitly says in the Iliad that he has no interest in the military. He would be out of place. As for the start of the war, Helen might not be involved, but Agamemnon would find a reason to start a war anyway. Paris would still die in a war that the Greeks will inevitably win.

Conclusion: Athena path is also a bad path.

As for Aphrodite’s path, we all know how that goes.

Another change that Paris’ decision would make is obviously which gods are on which side of the war. This obviously especially effects Athena, Hera, Aphrodite and by extension Ares.

Okay, technically answered your question (i hope), but I wanted to say a little more on the judgment of Paris in his defense.

Paris was chosen to select the most beautiful of the goddesses because he’s honest and impartial. He has virtues, he’s not just horny. Obviously, we can’t judge, but personally I think it’s clear that Aphrodite is the most beautiful of the three. She’s the goddess of beauty. Maybe Paris wasn’t regarding their bribery at all, maybe he was just making an honest decision. After all, the competition was regarding their beauty not their bribery.

If that’s not what Paris was thinking of, maybe he was making what he considered a politically smart move. I mean, how is Paris supposed to know that the “most beautiful woman on earth” was going to be the sister-in-law of the most powerful king in Greece and that he was prince of Troy, their biggest enemy? How was he supposed to know that getting married was going to start a war? In comparison to Athena and Hera’s routes, getting married seems harmless.

Also, I mentioned this briefly before, but Paris and Aphrodite have loads of similarities. It makes sense that she’d be his patron goddess, hence him choosing her.

[classicschronicles]

Hi lovelies,

I recently came across a very interesting book entitled ‘Cassandra’ so I thought I should probably do some background reading before reading Christa Wolf’s alleged masterpiece. And so today I thought it would be a nice idea to talk about the story surrounding the infamous Trojan princess, Cassandra. Just a quick trigger warning- this entry contains mentions of r4p3 after the sack of Troy.

Cassandra was the mortal daughter of King Priam (side note- why do this man and his 100 children constantly crop up in every area of classics, it’s starting to stress me out) and Hecuba. Now as you may expect from a man with 100 children, some of them were very notable. Cassandra’s brothers included Hector, Paris and her twin brother Helenus. But Cassandra is also due her fair share of fame as a seer (i.e. having the gift of foresight, although in her case it was more of a curse).

Cassandra grew up to become the most beautiful of all Priam’s daughters and so naturally had plenty of suitors- both mortal and immortal, including the god Apollo. In the most popular version of Cassandra’s story, it is Apollo who gifts her with the power of prophecy. In this version of the story, Apollo is enamoured with Cassandra’s beauty and tries to seduce her. He tells her that in return for something he will turn her into a seer. Cassandra accepts this offer, but after Apollo gives her foresight he reveals that what he wants in return is for Cassandra to sleep with him.

Now, as is the nature of the gods in Greek mythology, Apollo thought that the concept of consent was below him and so when Cassandra (as is fully her right) refused to sleep with him he felt as though he had been cheated. A repudiated Apollo could have simply taken her powers away, but in an act of blind rage, he cursed Cassandra instead. And so from that point on, whatever Cassandra professed would indeed come to pass but no one would ever believe her. Because of this, Cassandra then thought her twin brother Helenus how to see into the future and so good was she as a tutor, that Helenus’ predictions always came to pass (but with the added advantage of people believing him).

Cassandra gains much of her fame in mythology, as many do, because of the events of Troy. The first commonly known prediction of Cassandra is when Paris returns to Troy. Cassandra tells everyone that he will be the reason for the destruction of Troy and talks about how, because of him, she sees Troy in flames. But because of her curse, she was ignored. Paris would then go on to abduct Helen and so began the Trojan war, leading to the inevitable destruction of Troy as Cassandra had foretold.

Another very famous prophecy of Cassandra can be found within the Aeneid when Aeneas tells the story of the Trojan Horse. The Achaean army came up with a plan to sack the city of Troy by gifting them with a seemingly empty wooden horse- you all know this story. Cassandra knew that if the Trojans were to accept the horse Troy would fall overnight, but no matter what she said no one would believe her. Thus the Trojans let the horse into the walls of Troy and that very night the city fell to the Achaeans.

After the Greeks took possession of Troy, Cassandra sought refuge within the temple of Athena. However, the temple provided no refuge as Cassandra was found by Ajax the Lesser, who dragged Cassandra from Athena’s altar and r4p3d her. It was because of this act that Athena caused the storm that scattered all the Greek heroes and took them so long to get home.

With the fall of Troy, Cassandra became a spoil of war, with Agamemnon forcing her to become his concubine. Cassandra would bear two sons for Agamemnon. Despite being his slave, Cassandra tried to warn Agamemnon to not return to Mycenae, for Cassandra knew that his wife (Clytemnestra) was having an affair with Aegisthus- who would murder Agamemnon. Sure enough, when Agamemnon returned to Mycenae he and the children Cassandra bore for him, were murdered by Aegisthus.

Little to nothing is known about what happened to Cassandra after the events of Mycenae but given her previous luck, we can probably assume that it wasn’t pleasant. That being said, I hope you all enjoyed reading about Cassandra and that you have a lovely weekend!

~Z

[babyrdie]

Petty moment of the day, but I can't take seriously ANY opinion on this site that acts as if Homer had copyright over the Greek mythological characters included in the Homeric texts. And I'm not talking about the Homeric Question here. In fact, I don't care if Homer is a guy or not, if he was a doctor or a soldier or both or neither, if he was blind or not, if he was from Chios or not, if he was just a name for several people, if he only wrote The Iliad but The Odyssey belongs to someone else, which Books were included later or not, I genuinely don't care. I'm saying that, regardless of any discussion of the Homeric Question, Homer, whoever he is, does NOT own the rights to these characters. In fact, it's generally accepted that Homer was repeating ALREADY existing traditions.

So when someone's argument to discredit an ancient source is "Homer doesn't say that"…sorry, I think it sounds silly. "Well, Telegony is invalid fanfic because the author ignores the Homeric characterization of Odysseus!!", "Tragic Menelaus isn't valid because he is completely different from Homeric Menelaus!", "Aeschylus was talking nonsense when he made Achilles and Patroclus explicitly lovers, because Homer never makes that explicit!", "Deidamia isn't named in the Homeric texts, therefore she is not valid!", "Cassandra and Agamemnon's relationship being negative in Euripides isn't valid because we don't have that in The Odyssey!".

Guys, Greek mythology is NOT a franchise. The ancient authors are NOT authors following a concrete plot, with specific details and a basic world building. I genuinely don't think the later Greek authors were obligated to do the same as Homer. They aren't writing the plot of the third film and the previous two films in the franchise were scripted by Homer and they must follow Homer's plot. Just look at how Euripides literally contradicts himself in his own plays… he's not trying to make them all one continuous timeline, he's exploring different versions. I don't think the plays Orestes, Helen and Andromache are supposed to be in the same continuity, for example.

It's the same with the other authors, damn it. They're authors expressing a SHARED CULTURAL tradition and using it for some political, artistic, etc reason. They aren't people who take Homer's work and make fanfic out of it… Homer has no rights to these characters, they belong to the Greek people as a whole. Yes, the Homeric texts are very important and a great basis, but not being in line with what is written there doesn't make another version invalid. You may not like it, you may even HATE how the other author uses these characters, but saying that "oh, this is just trashy, invalid fanfic" and such is just weird.

Not to mention people are SUPER selective. Well, Homer said AEGISTHUS killed Agamemnon, not Clytemnestra. So, let's ignore The Oresteia! After all, The Oresteia contradicts Homer. Well, The Odyssey says that Ariadne was killed by Artemis because Dionysus had something against her…well, let's ignore all the later sources that indicate that she lived, got married and was immortalized. After all, that's not what Homer said. Well, Cassandra doesn't have prophetic powers since, although Homer clearly writes Helenus as a divines, he never makes it explicit that Cassandra has any association with Apollo or with prophecy in general. Ajax the Lesser never abused her either, after all Homer didn't say that. Polyxena was also not sacrificed, after all she isn't even mentioned in the Homeric texts. Therefore, her existence is against Homer! And of course, there are, for example, interpretations about Cassandra's powers perhaps being alluded to in The Iliad, but hey! Interpretations don't count, interpretations are modern, we must restrict ourselves to Homer. Therefore, Cassandra isn't a prophetess in Homer, any attempt at interpretation is invalid because it isn't explicit, and therefore the authors who make her a prophetess are invalid because they distance themselves from the Homeric tradition.

Anyway, just a rant. I can't stand these annyoing jokes anymore. "Oh, Telegony is a fanfic and doesn't count" and stuff like that. It's getting so annoying. People say "Roman sources don't count, only Greek ones" and then they say "no, but only specific Greek sources" and then they say "you know what, only The Iliad and The Odyssey are valid!" Dude, just say you don't like that version and that's it.