#accepted: gertrude

[nineraeix]

gerry doodle

[theblankest123]

Ah lads it's happening again

(I've been slowly getting into TMA and i can feel the hyperfixation starting to develop)

[forsakens-favourite]

One thing I really appreciate about TMA is how literally none of the characters can make a good choice to save their lives.

The statement givers? Either survived their encounters by sheer dumb luck, or made their statements before being killed (or worse).

The protagonists? Can't communicate with each other about anything, repeatedly make the worst possible decisions in every situation, and can't for the life of them see how harmful their respective behaviours are towards not just people around them, but themselves too.

The side characters? The antagonists? Either dead, soon-to-be dead, or going out of their way to be harbingers of fear and despair.

The only exception is Georgie Barker. And Agnes Montague, who didn't have the luxury of choice.

[worldwright]

Fascinated by Gertrude Robinson. Do I agree with everything she did? Of course not. I'm obsessed with her though.

(spoilers for the entire series 👇)

Did she know the full scope of the Archivist position before taking it? I have to assume not -- I doubt Jonah told any of them its true meaning before trapping them in it.

Did she resent it? She told Jonah "the Desolation killed her cat" and there's no way to know whether that was a joke, but she certainly came to work for the Magnus Institute of her own volition. As a woman. Entering academia. In the 1960s. She had some sort of powerful drive even then, whether it was spite or vengeance or something else entirely. I doubt that drive would have been any less powerful even if she wasn't the Archivist.

Would she even have needed to be Archivist to do what she did? Having the resources of the Institute was vital of course, but from what we know, she rarely used her compulsion and only "ate" statements when she needed to to maintain her strength. Most of her investigations were completed through plain old deductive skill and some well-placed friends. And it's not like you have to be tied to the Eye to use C4.

What was her mind made of that she could commit so readily? We know that she spent upwards of 50 years on her mission. The way she burned bridges makes it highly doubtful that she had much of a life outside the Institute. What must have happened in her youth to make her so single-mindedly driven to this one terrible, lonely, painful mission?

She'd said that she wanted to save the world when she was first starting out. She did all the way to the end, really, so I assume she meant that she was more idealistic or romantic about it at first. Maybe it makes sense that that idealism, trapped in the role of the Archivist at a center of supernatural knowledge may have hardened to the cold resolve and pragmatism of her later life. Maybe she just took that goal and decided to make the best of her situation to work towards it.

Was she scared about what would happen once she was gone? Before her final gamble and learning that the individual rituals would never work, at least. For many years, she believed that she was one of the only barriers between the world and its terrible end. There were people like Adelard, and maybe some of the Hunt-aligned would carry on in the same way, but I wonder if she had any plans for the future beyond her.

On the note of Adelard, she did have friends. Gerard, Jurgen, maybe even Salesa to a degree. People that she never asked to tie themselves to the Institute. This was, of course, after the last of her formal assistants had gone. According to posthumous interpretation by the Eye through Jon's statement in 167, she never trusted them. But I can't listen to her conversations with Jurgen and Gerard and say that she didn't find any comfort in them.

Regarding Gerard specifically, I can't help but notice that they worked together for less than two years, and in the 6-8ish months after his death, Gertrude made the decision to not counteract Raina's ritual. I can't speculate on whether this was just the culmination of a theory she'd been working on for a long time, but it was also the first time one of her colleagues had died since Michael, Sarah, and Emma all went in rapid succession. And it was a BIG gamble.

There's so many other things I think about -- her relationship with Agnes, her incredible memory, her... interesting reading habits -- but mostly I'm just so glad that she didn't live to see what Jonah would do with the truth she revealed about the rituals.

[beheldandcompelled]

@rootingformephistopheles and I have been talking all day about Elias loving Jon and I had to break my own heart with some lonelyeyes sadness

Peter was used to Elias having other partners. Peter would return home from sea and Elias had another man in his bed. Maybe their bed. Peter was never sure. He didn't need to be. He was fine to be in the Lonely while Elias had his fun.

Elias told Peter before that he loved him. He said vows confirming as such. Peter saw Elias with his other men, and he could tell whatever they had was different. So maybe it was love.

And then Elias met Jon. Peter felt the pull before Elias even registered it himself. Elias gravitated towards his Archivist so fast. His head filled with him. Elias assured Peter that he was molding Jon and just needed him for his plans. But Peter knew better.

"Jon is learning to compel." Elias told him eagerly one night in bed. Peter hummed something of an acknowledgment, trying to fight back the pain he felt at Elias' excitement.

"He's getting so strong so fast, Peter." He continued, overlooking Peter's reserve. "I'll need to be away of course before he starts to learn more than he should." Elais trailed off in thought, Peter fell asleep unable to face him.

Peter had the institute. Peter had Martin. He felt like he'd win his bet. But every time he'd visit Elias in jail, the gloating wasn't worth it. Elias was too concerned with Jon. The plans for Jon, how remarkable Jon looked as a full avatar. Peter hated feeling the jealousy. He'd spend days in the lonely, trying to purge the pain in chest every time he thought about Elias' eyes light up at Jon's name.

When Peter met his fate he refused to betray Elias. He tried over and over again to feel numb. He let himself resist the compulsion, calling to his patron for strength, ignoring the image of Elias' delight over Jon's power.

He told Jon the truth, the people he thought he loved didn't exist. He'd built Elias up in his own mind. He knew that Elias never loved him, at least not after he found Jon. At that Peter just wanted to be left alone.

He didn't die alone. But he died for Jonah.

[fideidefenswhore]

The edifice constructed around Elizabeth Barton now began to fall apart, as people flocked to dissociate themselves from her. The monks of Bocking's own monastery, as a whole body, felt it politic to write to the King seeking his forgiveness for the actions of their 'miserable brother.' After speaking with Cranmer, they also offered money-- £200 or £300-- to Henry [VIII], which they hoped might help him see his way to forgiving them. On 25 November 1533, the Marchioness of Exeter also wrote an abject letter to the King, entirely condemning the 'most unworthy, subtle, and deceivable' Barton. By 16 November 1533 it was reported that Barton had 'confessed herself not only a traitoress but also an heretic.' She had 'mocked all of Kent' with her 'marvellous hypocrisy'.

The Hidden Lives of Tudor Women (Norton, Elizabeth)

[silicacid]

wow ebenholz was such a rich kid

[callixton]

i feel like i’m going to shit myself over the hamlet casting we just did and it’s definitely because we cast a man as gertrude and the last vestiges of my internalized transphobia that i didn’t realize i still have is tearing my confidence to shreds

[dexterkronos]

Alternative Idea;

Heads of Institutes/Key Eye Avatars: Owls

Archivists/Assistants: Moths

Unaffiliated: Cats..? (Idk I read cats can represent curiosity), Ravens..? (Odin's key bird that represents insight)

Also Alternate Idea;

CatMoth John. I have no reason why in particular but it's funny to me.

Further, more like canonical idea;

Its a subconscious determination and not so much a role decided.

John chose a moth because (insert Points for MothJohn regarding episodes).

Jonah probably would have picked an owl because anything vaguely insinuating a gods involvement sounds about right to him.

If Gerry were alive and had a choice/wanted to I see him picking a Raven probably. Or an Owl. Or nothing.

Rosie as a cat feels pretty cute but realistically I think she'd be a moth just cause of her feelings on being trapped by Elias/Jonah

Albert Von Closen I don't care much for your monster form so I won't bother

Serapeum Archivist should be a Sphinx or an Owl Harpy because of how corrupted they are. Moth would work but uh... idk I like the Serapeum Archivist too much.

Gertrude is stuck as a moth and she'd hate it (reasonably I see her refusing a monster form)

Amy Patel you're an Owl now because of your w a t c h i n g

Why MothJohn when OwlJohn?

Okay so like being serious here; what's with everyone assigning Monster Johnathan Sims into being a Moth? Why can't he be an owl?

This has bugged me an inordinate amount and in true Eye Lady fashion, I'm gonna try to prove my propaganda ideation has merit (and also unravel this bloody mess).

--------------------------------------

Please help me unravel this with your own theories/responses/knowledge this is critical for my AO3 Magnus x (OwnSeries) AU

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Points for OwlJohn:

Owl symbolism in the Magnus Institute's logo

Owls (mainly the Little Owl) are associated with the Greek Goddess Athena (Goddess of Wisdom, Warfare and Handicrafts), and the Eye is a Wisdom-based Entity fragment.

Being an Owl (Athena) puts them at odds with Spider (Arachne), thus being reflective of the Eye (Watching) and Web (Acting) mindsets.

Harpy John! Like, hello???? Bird wings??? Being a big floofy owl creature like Eda Clawthorne from The Owl House????

Owls blink super quickly so like, metaphor for not being able to close eyes?

Points for MothJohn (so far)

Mentions of a 'chrysalis' in MAG 162

Death's-head Hawkmoths are apparently tied to supernatural/evil things?????? [Source: Wikipedia..? (i cant remember)]

Moths apparently represent transformation and rebirth??? [Source: some website labelled the "Tarrant Country College" idk i took a cursory glance]

Quote about being between a moth and a pilgrim [MAG 164..?] (Courtesy of @cirrus-grey )

Moths can have eyes on their wings to scare off predators (Courtesy of @nonbinarytoast)

If I've missed anything, please tell me because I'm genuinely curious for the sake of the Magnus-(Own Series) AU I'm cooking on AO3.

Might even try cooking a MothJohn vs OwlJohn propo image, or use one of my Archivist OCs for the Magnus-(OwnSeries) AU. Or both. Or all three.

(Also yes I know about Sphinx!Jonn and Dragon!John variations but there's no. bloody. owls.)

[southdakotagirl1966]

acceptance of transformation...

[thatweirdthingoverthere]

I just had another weird thought about my fave spooky podcast and most recent hyperfixation.

The Five Seasons of The Magnus Archives Seem Thematically Parallel to the Stages of Grief.

Season 1, Denial - Jon feigns skepticism as he reads the statements and hides that he's scared of whatever monsters lurk in them

Season 2, Anger - Jon takes the offensive in that he begins to investigate Gertrude's death and starts spying on his coworkers in an increasingly antagonistic fashion. Everybody rightly gets very upset with Jon's behavior.

Season 3, Bargaining - Jon learns (part of) the truth; okay, how does he fix this? Look into the Stranger, save the world, maybe that will validate the fact he's becoming less human? What does he have to do to be safe?

Season 4, Depression - And I quote, "Boohoo, I'm so alone and a monster". He has lost a larger piece of his humanity and is going through the motions, nobody he can trust or talk to and sinking into the addiction of hunting victims.

Season 5, Acceptance - John has come into full power and, while he still doesn't like the fact that he does, he enjoys the perks of avatarism and being the harbinger of the change.

(If this observation has already been made I apologize but my late night thoughts need an outlet.)

[mookthoughts]

You ever realize Elias Bouchard is kind of a fantastic boss? Yes yes I know, but hear me out here. First, accept that the whole serving an eldritch entity thing is a failing of the job description and not the companies figurehead. Done? Good. Now actually think about Elias’ actions in the context of a workplace. Throughout the story he consistently helps Jon develop the practical skills he will need for the daily challenges his job provides. Good Boss Behavior. Whenever one of his employees comes to him with an issue or a complaint, what does he do? He’s open with them about the realities of the shitty work environment and the constraints put on by upper management (The eye) then offers his workers the day off to rest and recover. Good boss behavior. He’s just sent his team off on a work trip to stop the unknowing and what does he do? Makes sure they know the office will both cover and reimburse all expenses and clearly lays out what records they will need to hold onto to take him up on this. Say it with me now, 👏Good👏Boss👏Behavior👏. Throughout the entire story he is consistently painted as a boss who cares about his employees and makes sure they know both the limitations and the perks of working for the archives.

The only times in the first three seasons I’ve listened to that he’s stepped out of this role are in handling Melanie, Gertrude and Jurgen. What he did to Melanie can be entirely justified as self defense given that she was actively trying to assassinate him. Even then he handled it as non violently as he was capable of and offered her the day off afterwards to deal with the trauma. Gertrude can be similarly ruled out, she was clearly plotting against the institute and may very well have been planning violence herself. After all she did have plastic explosives in the tunnels under the facility. Finally Jurgen…..

Jurgen fucking deserved it cause he sucks. Good Boss Behavior.

[mystical-philosopher]

Listen I know Gertrude would get me killed but she is simply so girlboss

[forgetyoursingalongsandlullabies]

I’m kind of obsessed with the Jonmartin timeline and how Jon slowly fell in love with Martin, mostly off tape over seasons 2 and 3. I wrote a little bit of an essay trying to pinpoint the shifts and moments when we can tell something has changed. I love fanfics but I am just so interested in trying to figure out what happened in canon as close as possible. Of course this does involve speculation of emotions that we have no way of actually knowing because Jon Sims does not talk about his feelings.

Anyway it’s long-ish.

Jon fell in love with Martin over season 2 but didn’t start to realize it until late season 3 just before The Unknowing.

Martin starts the show with a crush on Jon. In MAG 22 when Martin makes his statement about the worms Jon feels guilty over how all of the pressure he’s put Martin under drives him to put himself in danger and he has Martin move into the archives to protect him which may be the first caring gesture he has made towards Martin but it’s a big one. Martin, who had a decent size crush on Jon beforehand, is blown away by this and his crush becomes a real big one.

Jon tries to continue being hard on Martin but he does noticeably soften towards him. His criticisms are half-hearted.

During Jane Prentice’s attack when Martin and Jon are in document storage Martin calls Jon out and properly snaps at him for dismissing the supernatural and Jon actually sees Martin in this moment for the first time. Martin had never talked back to him in such a way and Jon can now see him as not just his assistant who makes a lot of mistakes but as an equal who might know better than him in some aspects. They have their heart to heart and Jon is able to be honest for the first time since taking this job. He admits he’s scared and it’s okay, well it’s not okay because Jane Prentice might be moments away from killing them, but Martin doesn’t think any less of him. And then Jon asks if Martin is a ghost and he’s wrong and it was stupid but Martin makes fun of him in a way that doesn’t hurt and Jon isn’t used to that. And Martin, seeing this open and fragile and slightly dumb part of Jon, starts falling in love.

After Martin finds Gertrude’s body Jon is one track minded and focused on finding out what happened. Martin, giving his statement about the tunnels, is in tears not because he found a body and was scared, but because he accidentally left Jon. Jon was too distracted with finding answers at the moment but he heard it and absorbed it over time.

Season 2 Jon is full of nothing but paranoia and is unwilling to trust anyone but it’s his obsessive observations that lead him to getting to know Martin enough to love him. When Jon tries to come back from leave early Martin forces Jon to go home and rest more. Jon wonders what Martin is hiding but reasons that, no Martin is actually concerned about his health. Jon thinks Martin gave him a fake jar of ashes to calm him down, he doesn’t seem to think this gesture is part of a conspiracy, he genuinely thinks of this gesture as Martin lying to him to make him feel better. Jon notes that Martin has been very attentive to his needs and recovery and that he is interested to hear Jon’s theories about Gertrude. He remarks that he has observed Martin’s competence and cunning. Of course Jon is ridiculously paranoid and interprets this attention as some kind of plot against him to slow down his investigation and sees these positive attributes of Martin as reasons to see him as a threat, but again, Jon is absorbing it all. The lines in Jon’s supplementals about Martin’s attention to him implies that they’re spending a lot of time together off tape, at least more than they ever used to, probably at Martin’s insistence and Jon accepting this time by justifying to himself that he needs to watch Martin.

In MAG 53 Jon mentions that Martin hovers near him when he goes to the canteen and Martin says it’s because he’s concerned (based on Jon’s lie about how he got the cut from Michael). Martin offers to pick up a sandwich from the cafe and bring it back for Jon. He doesn’t ask Jon to come with him and Jon acts like he’s annoyed to be around Martin when he sits with him in the canteen, but Jon decides, No instead of me refusing the gesture for food or saying yes please pick up that sandwich for me, he says “I’ll come with” making another decision to spend time with Martin when he doesn’t have to. Maybe Jon tries to justify this to himself again by saying he’s keeping an eye on Martin but Jon has made no efforts to go spend extra time with Tim, who was an equal suspect, even before Tim was mad at Jon. (And may I add, if Jon tried this tactic with Tim, going out to lunch, watching him by spending time with him etc. maybe Tim wouldn’t have ended up being so angry with Jon.) But Jon is definitely making the effort to spend time with Martin when it frankly has nothing to do with his investigation no matter how he tries to spin it.

In MAG 56 when Jon makes Martin tell him what he’s been hiding and he finds out Martin had lied on his CV he is so relieved that he is giddy. He is smiling, laughing and stuttering. To Jon’s ‘rational’ mind this doesn’t fully clear Martin of suspicion but emotionally this really seems to be a weight off of his shoulders. On a subconscious level he can start to allow the time they’ve spent together to mean something other than just spying.

Meanwhile Martin can see what a hard time Jon is having and he can see him spinning out of control with paranoia and Martin tries really hard to defend him, maybe not the best thing, we know Martin is a bit of an enabler for Jon, but for Jon’s emotional arc of falling in love with Martin it is important that Jon hears Martin defending him to Tim in MAG 58. Martin never stops calling Jon out on his shit like when he tells Jon that he needs to talk to Tim and that Tim isn’t wrong but nowadays it feels like everyone is constantly calling Jon out, not that he doesn’t deserve it, but when Martin calls him out it’s still clear that he cares, whereas anyone else talking to Jon just seems to speak to him with malice.

At the beginning of season 3 Jon is hiding out and staying at Georgie’s place. We know from Season 4 MAG 149 that Jon used to go on about Martin to Georgie “a lot”. Georgie got the full story about The Archives in MAG 93 and Jon decides to move out of Georgie’s place in MAG 99 when he was then kidnapped by The Circus. There’s usually a week of time that passes between episodes unless otherwise implied and 93 and 94 take place over the same conversation on the same day so I’ll assume 5 weeks in which Jon was going on about Martin a lot with full context. He probably talked about him before then too only more cryptically. Importantly though in the Season 4 Q&A Alex asks, Who knew that Jon liked Martin first, Jon or Martin? And Jonny said “Georgie” so even though Jon didn’t know it yet, he was obviously smitten (at least obvious to Georgie who has dated Jon and recognizes signs of affection and romance in him more than anyone else would).

When Jon talks to Martin in MAG 102 there is a very slight almost imperceptible sweetness in Jon’s voice that we’ve never heard before. The way he assures Martin that it’s ok that he didn’t know he was kidnapped. There is a lot of awkwardness and frankly a lot of heavy breathing from both of them for probably just standing there. Their casual talk about the overall institute and Hannah who is having her baby and had that thing with the milk in the break room last year, Jon doesn’t know who she is but Martin knows that Jon knows her probably because they had been around her together since they spent so much time together last year but Jon was too paranoid and she had nothing to do with the plot, it’s just a very normal and domestic moment. Jon tells Martin he knows he’s been reading statements and Martin is just worried Jon will be jealous that he’s taking some of his job but instead Jon is just concerned for him. It’s different and they both know it’s different and they can both feel the conversation is charged with something but they don’t know what. “It’s not too late. Unless the world ends” means a lot in this conversation, yes it does literally mean it’s not too late for them to talk and continue whatever friendship they were stumbling towards in season 2. It’s not too late for them to pick up this weird, oddly charged and tender conversation that may be leading somewhere else. It’s also foreshadowing that it sort of is too late because their world will end when Jon effectively dies stopping the Unknowing.

By MAG 114 Jon says that he has listened to all of the tapes and has therefore heard the gossip about he and Martin. I think something clicked in his brain when he heard that Martin has a crush on him. He probably never considered that idea because things like romance are never on the forefront of his mind especially when he is in active danger, which he has been for the last 2 years, and even more so he wouldn’t expect someone to have feelings for him in general. Being conscious of the notion that Martin has feelings for him lead him to consider all of the strange feelings he’s been having about Martin over the last year and a half in a way that he might not have gotten to on his own until much later. It’s all part of the plan that Jon suggests Martin stay back at the Institute in front of Elias but Jon is genuinely relieved that Martin will be safer there.

In MAG 117 Jon talks about Daisy and Basira’s bond and how he’s been having to do everything by himself. He’s envious of their bond and we can tell he’s been thinking about how things could be if he had someone (Martin) by his side. I don’t think this part of his testament would have played out this way had he not been thinking a lot since he heard the tape. When he addresses the “office gossip” he is flustered. Possibly embarrassed that Georgie, who he trusts, was giving out this personal information to Melanie but I actually think he’s used to that specific type of gossip about him and I think that the nervous stutter and searching for words comes from trying to address the other part of the gossip, which he is still trying to wrap his head around.

It isn’t confirmed but I do think that Jon listened to everyone’s testimony before leaving and he heard Martin’s “I need him to be ok”. Later in MAG 139 Jon says “I need him to be okay. I just do.” I don’t think he’s consciously repeating the same phrase but I think this phrase has lived with him ever since he heard Martin say it and now it’s just organic to Jon too.

I genuinely do believe that at this point, as of MAG 117, all of Jon’s feelings for Martin are already there and internally he has at least accepted romantic feelings even if he wouldn’t have called it love then.

Jon is put in a 6 month coma the next night and is in a full tilt romantic arc the moment he wakes up. Not 20 minutes after waking from his coma he wants to see Martin, he’s surprised that Martin wasn’t there for him the moment he woke up. Maybe if you asked him the next day he’d say it was a silly notion for him to just expect Martin to be there at any given point no matter when he woke up, but a part of him accepted and knew that if Martin could have he would have been there.

Anyway, all this is to say that if he woke up from a coma desperately in love with Martin all of those feelings had to have been present before the coma. I know there was a lot more thought and consideration and emotional work that Jon had to do over season 4 before he could have been ready for his love to literally save Martin but all of the feelings were there by the time he woke up.

[shadow-the-crow]

I just realized something.

If Michael hadn't "died", the dynamic between it and Jon could have been so interesting.

Jon made it feel human. Telling him its story allowed it to literally accept who he was. Allowed him to make peace with his past.

But also - Jon was still the Archivist. The successor of the person Michael had hated most in the world, of the person who had inflicted all this suffering on it. Michael had spent so much time hating Jon for what Gertrude did, this hatred building up over time until it became so strong that it distracted the Distortion from its actual plans, from its own nature.

Michael hated Jon. But he also sort of anchored it to humanity - although the Distortion had never been human.

If Michael had stayed Michael, but hadn't managed to kill Jon for some reason - i would have loved to see how that could have played out.

[hauntedhotel]

As much as it isn't fun to hear Jon yelling at Martin, the end part of Mag 56 is so hilarious to me.

Listen, there is NO evidence to support Martin's claim about lying on his CV, and frankly it's kind of a weak cover story. You are required to show proof of your qualifications when you get a new job on the strength of them - not to mention ID - and even though on a relisten we know Martin's telling the truth and that Elias has his own reasons for hiring Martin, Jon doesn't know any of that. There's nothing to back up Martin's story and given how paranoid Jon's been since Prentiss, not to mention the fact that his specific concerns about Martin were that he might be hiding his own cunning behind the image of someone bumbling and soft (Jonathan "right for the wrong reasons" Sims strikes again) it is wild to me that he accepts this so quickly.

It's almost as though he's eager for Martin to be innocent, even though everything he's previously said about him would indicate that he'd rather it was Martin than Tim or Sasha, the assistants he respects professionally and likes on a personal level. It's so easy to picture him just blue-screening while poor Martin sits there expecting to be fired/screamed at again.

Martin: Okay, that's the truth, do your worst. Jon? Jon??

Jon, internally: Martin's innocent Martin lied to Elias but not me Martin didn't kill Gertrude Martin's safe Martin's still my friend Martin doesn't want me dead

Martin: Jon?

Jon, internally: MartinMartinMartinMartin