#Zelenetz

[drifting-pieces-blog-blog]

Marc Spector: based on a real guy?

I would like to propose Barney "Beryl" Ross (born Dov-Ber Rasofsky) (1909-1967) as a stand-in for possible Marc Spector inspiration or at least a REALLY odd coincidence. The parallels are outstanding.

Born to Eastern European Immigrant parents (From Belarus), he grew up in a tough Chicago neighborhood. 

His father was a Rabbi who looked down on fighting like Boxing and Wrestling. 

When Barney expressed interest and talent in boxing, his father told him to "Let the goyim be the fighters" and that "The trombeniks (yiddish for phony and self aggrandizer), the murderers--We are the scholars." 

Barney studied the Talmud as well and expressed interest in becoming a teacher. 

His father was murdered when someone robbed their family vegetable shop. His mother suffered a mental breakdown and his three younger siblings were sent to an orphanage when Barney was just 14. 

Barney became a thief, a gambler, and worked for Al Capone. He eventually found his money in boxing where it is speculated that Al Copone himself often promoted his shows and bought up the tickets to help him make money. 

He used the money to reunite his family. 

His career took off during the rise of Antisemitism and while Barney rejected his father's teachings and religion, he understood that he was seen as a "scrappy Jew Kid" and he needed to become a representative for his people. 

His walk into the ring song was "My Yiddishe Momma" and he often wore blue and white with the Magen David on his clothes. 

In the ring himself, he became a world champion in three weight divisions. He was never knocked out. 

His last match before he retired he went 15 rounds where he took a severe beating. His couch begged him to call it, but he refused to go down. He was determined to leave the ring on his own feet". He had 72 wins in his career, 22 of which were by K.O. 

When WWII broke out, he joined the Marines. Because of his stardome, they tried to keep him as just a pretty poster face recruit, but he insisted on fighting. 

He was almost court-martialed when his commanding officer called him a Jewish Slur and he punched him out. He was spared because the judge was also jewish. 

Barney was sent to the Pacific Theater and fought at Guadalcanal where he single handedly fought off no less than five armed Japanese soldiers after being shot. He then rescued his fellow soldier by carrying them to safety. He was awarded the Silver Star. 

Despite his complicated relationship with his religion, he was known for bringing his father's religious study books with him to training camp. 

In the war, he made friends with a catholic priest who invited him to Christmas Dinner. Barney could play the pipe organ and he provided music for the soldiers. When asked to play something Jewish, he played "My Yiddishe Momma" that left everyone in tears. 

After his wounds healed, he developed a morphine addiction that he went to rehab for and eventually recovered. He went to schools and campaigned about the dangers of drug abuse. 

He worked hard for the creation of a Jewish State and offered to lead a brigade of Jewish American Veterans. 

The Jewish Community saw him as a hero and with his back story, he fit the bill of superhero status. 

A tragic backstory, rejection of his father's life and teachings, rising up out of the rough streets, becoming a fighter, and eventually a real life war hero and fighter for Jewish Rights. 

(Check out his biography- Barney Ross: The Life of a Jewish Fighter, by Douglas Century and his autobiography No Man Stands Alone.) 

Moench most certainly did not base Marc Spector off of Barney Ross. He didn't set about making the character obviously Jewish at first. It happened naturally for various other reasons. 

But Moench also didn't give Marc his back story. 

That would be Zelenetz. 

Moon Knight Vol 1. Issue #37.  Published 1984

Writer: Alan Zelenetz

Artist: Bo Hampton

Cover Artist: Michael Kaluta 

Now, I've broken this comic down before. HERE. But let's talk about the importance of THIS story. 

You see, after the war, no one wanted to talk about the Holocaust. Most survivors didn't want to talk about what they had been through and most others liked to pretend that nothing happened. 

It wasn't until the 90s that they came up with an actual mandate that it be taught in schools! 

It wasn't until then that it suddenly became apparent that we needed to hear from the survivors and we needed to record the history before the first hand accounts were lost. 

Until this time, the only stories being told were done in comics. 

Early comics used it as a grotesque way to add in horror and action and violence. When the Comic book code of ethics stepped in (big shot guys that put down the law for swears being &#^$% and no sex and violence rating systems), then comic writers found 'creative' ways to use Nazi as the villain and ambiguously talk about their targets without mentioning their actual crimes or the people they targeted. 

THAT would change when Spiegelman's Maus was published in 1980. 

A keen observer will note the date Moon Knight Vol 1 came out. November 1980! 

Now, Marc has fought Neo Nazi before and has even faced antisemitism. He's even gone to Jerusalem. But we have never had Marc connected to the Holocaust or explored his Jewish past before Zelenetz told this story. 

“I grew up on the poor side of Chicago. My father was unconcerned with material things. ‘God loves a poor man.’ He’d say. ‘Poor in goods, rich in spirit.’” 

Sounds familiar, right? 

 And while Marc is an extreme example, we see the conflict with the Rabbi father and the son who wants to fight. 

In this same issue we see Moon Knight rescue a Rabbi and Torah from a burning synagogue that has a Swastika painted on the door. 

Moon Knight hunts down the Nazi punks and makes them hurt. 

In this issue and the next, we see Marc deal with his conflicted past regarding religion, his Rabbi father, and his choice to fight vs his father’s choice to ‘leave it to god’. 

We also find out in this issue that the reason Marc joined the Marines is because of his father’s rejection. 

"To become Moon Knight--A social conscience and moral force. Just, severe, unknowable." 

I won't replay the comic for you guys, as I've already reviewed it (though I've learned a LOT since then and I'm sure I could bring more things to light at this point... Like the fact that to bring Elias back from the dead they write the Hebrew word Emet 'truth' on his forehead. Marlene erases part of the word, leaving behind Met, which is Hebrew for 'To Die' and this sends him back to his death). 

In the ending issue, and last issue of Moon Knight’s first run, we are left with: 

"I may have misjudged my father's saintliness for cowardice and his genius and moral zeal for fanaticism. [...] And isn't moon knight in his own way a moral zealot fighting perhaps for the very same values Marc Spector once rejected?" 

Back to Alan Zelentez. 

Alan only had Moon Knight for a few issues, but he was the first and as far as my limited research has shown me, the only actually Jewish writer to get to work with Moon Knight (I hope I am pleasantly surprised as I get further into things...but I'm not holding my breath). 

Zelenetz fit a LOT of Jewish lore and fun snippets into this comic that only those that have studied Jewish folklore and the culture would easily pick out. 

He was a Junior High School and High school principal at an Orthodox Jewish school in Brooklyn. 

He worked as an editor, script writer, Judica advisor for film and helped get a few other comics started and established. 

Now, is it likely that a Jewish man in Brooklyn heard about the son of a Rabbi from Eastern Europe in Chicago who turned into an amazing boxer and later a Marine war hero? Only Zelenetz knows for sure. 

[coverpanelarchive]

Thor Annual #11 (1983)

[comicarthistory]

Page from Master of Kung Fu #125. 1983. Art by William Johnson and Mike Mignola.

[brevoorthistoryofcomics]

GH: THOR #331

Another series that I had been buying for a long time simply out of rote was THOR, so it was a simple matter to put it on the chopping block during my necessary purge. If I’m honest about it, looking back, THOR was a series that suffered throughout the entirety of the 1970s. Jack Kirby had given it its spark for its formative years, but nobody who came after his departure seemed capable of…

[ungoliantschilde]

Kull the Conqueror, Vol. 3 # 6 Page 07 by John Buscema, with Inks and Colors by Klaus Janson, Letters by John Morelli, and a Script by Alan Zelenetz.

[balu8]

Bizarre Adventures #32: Sea of Destiny

by Alan Zelenetz and John Bolton

Marvel

[smashedpages]

On this date in 1984, Marvel released the first issue of Alien Legion by Carl Potts, Alan Zelenetz, Frank Cirocco and Terry Austin through their Epic Comics imprint.

[grazingoccultation]

You can tell Zelenetz (author of Moon Knight #18, #21–22, #27, #32, and #35-38, who made the character canonically Jewish) used to be a Jewish teacher because the story in #37-38 sounds exactly like a folk tale they'd tell at the religious school program I went to as a kid (minus some of the violence/explicit generational trauma probably).

Complete with the themes of "everyone should have access to education" and "protecting your community" and the end, which was a clever wordplay on the one letter difference between the Hebrew word for "truth" and "death".

What I'm saying is Zelenetz is a nerd.

[mrrubbersuitman]

https://www.etsy.com/.../moon-knight-vol-2-1-copper-age... NM- Moon Knight 1, regularly $20.00, on sale through the link until 5/15 for $18.00

[age-of-moonknight]

“Vengeance Never Dies,” Moon Knight: City of the Dead (Vol. 1/2023), #5.

Writer: David Pepose; Penciler: Marcelo Ferreira; Inker: Jay Leisten; Colorist: Rachelle Rosenberg; Letterer: Cory Petit

[anotherbuskitten]

Thor Annual #13 (1985)

[graphicpolicy]

Warner Bros. and Tim Miller attempt to build their own space epic franchise with Alien Legion

Warner Bros. and Tim Miller attempt to build their own space epic franchise with Alien Legion #comics #alienlegion #comicbooks

Movies based on comics may be struggling at the box office but that’s not stopping studios from swinging big. Warner Bros. is hoping to launch it’s own space opera franchise with Alien Legion. The comic was originally published by Marvel. Tim Miller, who directed Deadpool and Terminator: Dark Fate, is attached to direct. Don Murphy and Susan Montford of Angry Films, the banner whose credits…

[drifting-pieces-blog-blog]

Are you gonna talk about how Marlene is named after Margo Lane and Steven is bascially Lamont Cranstron Margo's boyfriend from the Shadow and Moench said as much

Because the shadow was on when Marc was a kid in volume #1 going by him being in his 30s and Elias leaving Europe in 1939 so like is Steven a Lamont Cranstron introject in the comics?

My friend, you just hit on a long time love of mine. 

Marlene Alraune. I've long had mixed feelings about the original flame of the Moon Knight system. 

She's absolutely a badass who could always take care of herself in a time when the women in comics were often just there to be eye-candy and rescued. 

Heck, half the time Marlene did the rescuing. The number of times she saved Moon Knight is quite high. 

But she also fell in love with an idea of who she wanted 'Marc' to be. When he didn't fit that idea, she could often be quite cruel and abelistic. 

Sometimes she was good for them, trying to get them to face their problems and let go of the past.... But usually she was the one pushing them to 'snap out of' their mental health issues and be Steven while forgetting the other two. 

Now, I don't know if she's based on Margot Lane. But it is easy to see that she is meant to be Moon Knight's version of Margo Lane. 

(I would love to see your source of Moench saying such! I'm always curious to see what the OG has to say about his MK starts). 

For those out of the loop: 

Margo Lane is from "The Shadow" (one of my favorites!!!). A comic created in 1931 and turned into a very popular radio play in 1937 (officially it was tested in the waters as early as 1930 before he was hashed out into a literary sense in 31 and then revived again in 37 as his own familiar self). 

It was later made into least one (Okay) movie with Alec Baldwin in 1994. 

Margo was created originally for the radio drama as a companion when they realized they had far too many men in the line up and it would become difficult to distinguish the voices. But MAN was she a heavy hitter! 

She was incredibly intelligent, fearless, and didn't put up with his shit. 

Orson Welles was the voice of the Shadow and his alter ego Lamont Cranston. Let me tell you... Once you've heard Orson deliver the line: "Who knows what evil lurks in the hearts of men? The Shadow knows!" You ain’t ever going back. 

You can still find the radio plays on most podcast services. 

Margot Lane fresh out of the 1930s! 

Now, I can 100% see the comparison between Marlene and Margot. At the start.

Complicated love interest of a character with alter egos and a complex social standing and questionable mental health at times. (I could go on and on about Lamont but I won't). 

Marlene was originally a damsel in distress that evolved into a badass independent woman. Margot was originally a fast talking quick witted woman who on occasion needed rescuing. 

As for their personalities? I’d say they are quite different. Perhaps Marlene started out as an idea to give Moon Knight an interesting companion. In fairness, imagining early MK without Marlene is actually a bit dull. You NEED to have that inner circle that knows his past and has an interest in helping him. As for Margot, she isn’t fleshed out well in the early radio show and she wasn’t in the original comic/story until after the radioshow. She was just a voice with witty remarks and smart observation that paired very well with Orson Wells. 

Now, you mentioned Steven as basically a fictive of Lamont Cranston. 

The timeline can line up for the original run. We already know little Marc liked to play with super hero toys and enjoyed an escape in fictional stories (Mostly from Lemire's run as we never see little Marc in the OG run outside of Zelenetz' 2 part exploration of the past in like, one page). It is possible he listened to The Shadow on the radio.

In the MCU, Steven is canonically a fictive. In the comics, we don't know the story of how and when Jake and Steven first came about. 

Let's look at Lamont Cranston's character. 

Lamont is a wealthy man-about-town. A carefree playboy that travels the world to 'learn the old mysteries that modern science has not yet rediscovered'. Once he is finished traveling and learning his special abilities, he returns to New York. (The radio show and the print stories are vastly different at this point). 

Now, Lamont is not really given a lot of 'radio time' in the old broadcasts. He's just a rich fellow with a nice girl on his arm. He's given more of a personality much much later in different installments of the Shadow. 

And while Steven Grant is originally SUPPOSED to be the main alter from issue #1, he quickly falls out of favor and the comic shifts to Jake Lockley as being the main face with Steven being the one to hold down the home life and the cash flow. 

As for Moench saying it was an inspiration? I don't know. I'd have to see the interview. But back in the late 70s and early 80s, the usual alter ego of superheroes tended to be rich, casual, playboys. 

Which brings me to the big kicker. Bob Kane and Bill Finger, creators of Batman, have explicitly said they based Batman off of pulp mystery characters like The Shadow. In fact, his first comic was a direct takeoff of a Shadow story! 

You can see the homage to this in The Batman Animated Adventures with "The Gray Ghost" that was voiced by Adam West (two homages in one people! I love it). 

And we all know that Moon Knight is constantly being compared to Batman (it's the cape. It has to be the cape). 

Batman was started in 1939. 

SO. One might just as easily argue that little Marc Spector loved to read comics and maybe picked up a Batman comic or two. So as much as Lamont could be where Steven got started, so too could Bruce Wayne. 

Let that one sit with you for a minute. 

I mean, if we're going down the rabbit hole of modern comics ripping on old radio broadcasts... Who's to say Kato from the Green Hornet isn't the inspiration for Robin? Or that he isn't the inspiration for Frenchie? A side kick that knows how to fight and works on cars and drives them around? Sounds like Frenchie to me. Heck, the Green Hornet and Kato even have a cameo in the Adam West Batman show with the building climbing bit they used to do.

All comics come from somewhere and over time, all comics will eventually resemble another as inspiration is sort of the name of the game.

I don't think that Steven Grant in the comics was a fictive. Especially if you go off Lemire's run as the real cannon event and we see a young Steven Grant making friends with a young Marc. I think at that point, Steven presented as the perfect Jewish Son that a Rabbi was supposed to have that Marc couldn't be. It is possible he had traits as an introject (adoption of traits and personalities of others), but it is truly hard to say from where he got the information.

But it is interesting to think of them listening to the old radio shows and drawing ideas from them on becoming the hero that is Moon Knight. After all, the Shadow wasn't exactly known for being merciful and his villains did tend to.... not survive.

[comicarthistory]

Page from Conan The King #24. 1984. Art by Dave Simons and Geof Isherwood.

[xenonmoon]

Shiva

ok who's dead now

His mother? I know his mother was supposed to have died when he was young

AH LEMIRE RETCONNED WHEN MARC'S FATHER DIES??

WELL I HOPE THIS THING WON'T BLAST A HOLE IN THE CONTINUITY

(big spoilers for the end of the Moench run under the crack)

We're in #37-#38, written by Zelenetz and the two last issues of the OG run

Marc's father is his deathbed and he asks for his estranged son to be there

And well- that's quite A Shock, since he didn't exactly part ways with his father in good terms

Marlene insists that he should still go and see what he has to say, but Steven is NOPE NOPE FRECHIE IS THE MOONCOPTER READY WE'RE GOING OUT.

He eventually tells her the backstory of how he parted ways with his old man upon the roof, all the Creative Divergences he had with his philosophy until it all culminated with this:

(Marc became a pugilist and his heavily pacifist father disapproved A LOT, especially after Marc hit him to shut him up)

Meow meow is adamant into not wanting to go to his father. He doesn't, he goes moonknighting into a specific neighbourhood so he could punch the hell out of n*zis and then eventually decides that- ok Marlene, you're right, I should at least hear what he has to say in his deathbed

Ouch

Plot goes on yadda yadda what's important to know is that at some point his father's body gets stolen by his old pupil who wanted to bring him back to life using ✨magic✨

And this messes up Marc a lot - because at this point he's full on Marc

And then- and then this thing happened where Reuben (his father's beloved apprentice) animates Elias' Spector's corpse and uses him as a golem to send against Moon Knight

AND HE'S VERY CONFLICTED

AND ABOUT TO GET CHOKED TO DEATH

The Marlene pops in and saves him and- well, she kinda saves the day on her own

I'm sorry but he's so meow meow here

BUT THE MOST IMPORTANT PART COMES AFTER THAT

MARC HAS FOUND SOME CLOSURE WITH HIS DAD(DDY ISSUES) AND RECONCILED WITH THIS PART OF HIS PAST

AND THIS IS

THIS IS THE FUCKING REASON WHY MARC GOES BACK AT BEING THE MAIN ALTER IN LIKE THE ENTIRETY OF THE FOLLOWING MOON KNIGHT RUNS except from Vengeance of the Moon Knight that it's Jake's show

THIS

DO YOU SEE IT

DO YOU SEE WHY I SAY THAT THE RETCON LEAVES QUITE A HUGE QUESTION MARK SHAPED HOLE IN THE CONTINUITY

IF HIS FATHER DIED WHEN HE WAS A TEEN

what happened at the end of the "new" moench story

what happened to Steven

why did they switched places

I HAVE QUESTIONS MR LEMIRE

(but of course, if he didn't catch up with any more comics other than those he read before starting writing he wouldn't know about all of this)

DAMMIT

[silverjetsystm]

📑 Favorite part of your muse’s backstory? 

Mun talks about the Muse | Accepting!

I've written about MK (1980) #37 a few times. Without trying to repeat what I've already written on the backstory, I'm going to explain why I like the original backstory and bring everything except what literally cannot work due to timelines into the present era.

And we're going to do something I don't like. We're going to talk about my life out in the open. An incredibly specific view, deeper than "hi, I'm Cory and I'm Jewish" without airing all of my self onto dash. Bottom line is I've had a difficult year. A productive year. A joyful year.

Housemate A and I are both Jewish. Together, we daven in the mornings, we attend services, we on occasion study Talmud. We stay up late discussing deeply personal things with my partner and other housemates.

It's Tisha b'Av. I've never observed Tisha b'Av before. Housemate A and I listen to Lamentations, discuss what we are holding, and then do our parallel play of (what tends to be) scrolling through our phones and talking about whatever we run across that bubbles up. Housemate A is not into superheroes; whatever they learn is through osmosis. They're up for me talking through this question.

First, they raise an excellent point. "Favorite" does not have to mean like "favorite toy." "Favorite" can also mean "what resonates."

I summarize how Marc's father, Elias, is an Orthodox rabbi who was originally written as someone who fled the Shoah in 1939 and falls into that pacifist wise Jewish trope. I emphasize the writer, Zelenetz, is Jewish. Which matters because it's different when a Jewish writer writes these tropes versus a non-Jewish writer with different baggage. How antisemetism plagued Marc throughout his childhood (and it's still happening). They're surprised Elias disowns Marc when Marc punches him because that's not supposed to happen.

We move into themes. Assimilation. Violence, including war crimes as a way to feel powerful and protect the self. How Marc war crimed until he could war crime no more. They asked if he was pushed out of war crimes. Yes, because he decided "hey, maybe we shouldn't kill civilians." "That'd do it." And then the whole 'being raised by the Egyptian god of the moon' happens.

There's spirals. Contradictions. I finish up by explaining how MK is a System and they go "I can see why one would split based on those circumstances."

Around this point, they go "Oh! It's a drash!" It's not just about sons and fathers, it's about how to live and hold all of these contractions as one. How to constantly question. Vengeance and/or justice. How to be better. How to be Jewish while navigating 'working with' and 'working for' an Egyptian god.

There are relatively recent runs that diverge for more than just the "well, Marc wasn't born around 1948 now was he?" timeline. I mean, yes, of course Elias can't be a Shoah survivor at this point. But they can do better! What Marc experienced growing up still happens.