#We don’t talk much anymore but I do have them on discord still

[eclipsedcrystalstar]

I should get back into roleplaying sometime, I don’t think I have for like, 3 years now I think? Kinda miss it but also just rambling into the void about my characters instead of needing to know every action they’d take is fun.

[kiwinatorwaffles]

the pushback against the discord mobile update shouldn’t be based upon “if you can get used to it” or not. some people might like it. some people might get used to it faster. but a lot of people won’t. and the point of the pushback is that discord keeps thinking they can change this shit and get away with it.

nobody asked for discord to change its color to a brighter blue. remember that? we all got used to it. but that was one of the first instances of the userbase just tolerating a useless change.

later came the dreaded username change. nobody asked for that. in fact, it caused a fuck ton of trouble. remember the markipkier username situation? yeah. but we all just “got used to it.” i don’t hear anyone talking about it anymore. we moved on, even though it really fucking sucked.

now it’s a complete overhaul of the mobile app that removed pretty much everything people liked about discord in the first place. removing the right swipe to see members and pins just made everything clunky and slow. the swipe to reply they replaced it with doesn’t even work all the time. the nice and cozy gray is now colder and darker, which would be fine, but there’s literally a midnight mode that they just released out of beta after 7 years. (edit: i actually used the app for a little more and realized just how fucking hard it was to read anything with the new contrast. it's a genuine accessibility issue. jesus)

they removed the community. want to see which friends are online? fuck you! click the top of the channel that is much slower and cumbersome than just swiping! want to see the funny and/or important messages you pinned? too bad, because we’re cutting off longer messages and hiding links/images that were attached to the message. and also, you can’t see who sent the message in a dm or group chat. also^2, you have to click into the channel and click into ANOTHER tab to even access the pins. fuck you.

regardless of if you like the changes or not, the point of protesting isn’t due to personal preference. it’s that discord keeps thinking they can change this shit that nobody wanted and get away with it. staying complacent will just let them know they can roll out changes and their userbase will still stick around, even if they hate it. which is not true. because users (including my friends and i) and even NITRO USERS are considering jumping ship to alternatives that don’t hate its userbase.

don’t let discord think it’s invincible. send feedback (go to settings and appearance, and there will be a button), even if it’s likely they won’t read it. review them in the app store. if there’s enough genuine feedback that outlines the faults and focuses on the performance and usability of the app, there’s a chance they might change Some things. because we don’t WANT to move and leave all our friends and communities, but a lot of us will have to if the situation gets worse.

the best case scenario is that they let us choose the format we want, but considering that this is discord we’re talking about, i don’t think it will. the least we can do now is to make sure at least some things get changed back for accessibility and convenience.

[bugflies00]

sorry this is referencing a few month old post/s you made about the dream situation and a question you’d asked about dream stans, you can delete this msg if you want since it’s not as relevant anymore. Again I’m sorry if this is weird or you don’t gaf (that’s fair bc who does lol)

TW for grooming and dream being fucking gross. You can just scroll fast and delete if you don’t want to read or deal with this, I understand that

-

To preface Im about Tommy’s age now, when I was 15-17, used to be a huge dream stan, and I was very vocal about defending him online. —I was extremely parasocial and weird, and looking back on it I really regret how I acted.

So. Idk how much people who weren’t stans of his saw, but dream- as stupid as it sounds- was our friend.

He had bath calls with us, sleep calls with us, he told us in depth about his personal life and his health issues and his trauma and his moods and his habits and just basically everything. Most of his interactions with us was through his discord, and then someone in the fandom would stream his discord calls for people who weren’t there. A running joke was that dream had a parasocial relationship with us. there was absolutely no gap between creator and fan, he followed me more than once, he brought fans onto his discord streams and talked with them and he knew a good amount of us by name. He called us cute and talked about how much we all (as individuals) meant to him,

when drama happened he’d usually either do a space/call or go on his private and vent to us, there were I think two separate times he’d have full panic attacks over drama happening, and we’d have to talk him down. He also would, when responding to callouts or accusations, use arguments that his fans were making.

He did this during almost all his pitfalls, including the grooming allegations, his wording was often taken word for word from tweets by people I was friends with. I dropped him after the initial allegations, but for a while after i still checked in bc i was really hoping he’d be innocent (he wasn’t) and i can confirm he still does this. He also regularly dmed his fans, mostly his black fans, to ask for “help” on being less racist.

I don’t use the word “grooming” lightly, but dream was and is absolutely grooming his audience. Thats why dream stans seem so cult-like these days. The amount of guiltripping, lying, forcing an us vs them mentality, and manipulation I saw this man pull was actually sick. He’d frequently, privately, to us, vent about tommy or quackity, and about how “all his friends hated him�� and “we were all he had left” (legit, not joking). He is extremely good at emotional blackmail, he is good at making his fans hate other creators and turn on them, he is very good at utilizing his tears and using wording that he knows will make his mostly teenage fanbase think he’s a good kind person.

He wants to impress on his fans that he really was just a kind person, the only kind person and the only voice of reason. That’s why when the Cantu thing happened, he started posting “messages” of him being so kind to the Uber driver. He needs his fans to think he’s a kind and loving person, and that Tommy and quackity and literally everyone who’s pulled away from him was just a fake friend who couldn’t be trusted. He somehow was always, always the one being fucked over.

I remember when I told my friend about dream (this friend had a completely neutral opinion on him and barely knew the guy beyond his manhunts) and he told me that sounded like grooming.

He gradually isolated his (primarily young, female) fanbase using private accounts, discord calls, Snapchat, and whatever else. He got extremely personal with us far beyond the level any creator should be, he used kindness and flattery (like calling us “mature”. Also legit) to make us feel genuinely loved by him, again, NOT in the way a creator loves their fans. In the way a friend loves their friends, even in the way a partner loves their partner. He lashed out at us and had panic attacks when we did criticize him, he used tactics to make us think he was always right and good, and more than that, make all his detractors seem like terrible people out to get him AND us, he played himself out to be the perpetual victim and used carefully cut clips and emotional manipulation (like how he brought up his ~poor innocent family~ when harassing quackity. Weaponizing trauma like that was something he did ALL THE TIME to us whenever he was criticized.) in order to use us against people he didn’t like, making us take the bullet for him.

He uses his kindness and supposed goodness as a weapon, he used Tommy’s own trauma around doxxing against him when Tommy dared to criticize him (“I supported you when you were getting doxxed, yet you won’t do the same for me?”)

He used trauma to relate to his audience, making us feel like he was the only person who got it.

It’ll sound stupid, but it was genuinely really scarring. The way he made me and my friends feel was so confusing. I often found myself feeling used and violated, but also like I was in debt to him. I dreaded when he’d have fans on call, I dreaded him but also he felt like all I had. The tone of him and the fandom was that “we have to defend him at all costs, they’re out to get him and we’re the last line of support he has”. It was embarrassing, it was stressful, it was horrible. I wasted so much fucking time and energy on him.

it was really traumatic and distressing, especially as a teenager who’d already been at a vulnerable point and used him as an escape originally. I know that sounds melodramatic but I mean it.

He is a groomer through and through. He’s barely getting any new fans, but he’s barely losing any either bc the grasp he has on them is so tight.

Worst of all, if you leave the fandom, you’ll lose your friends and become an enemy. He encourages that behaviour and that mentality. He encourages harassment of his ex-friends, he encourages harassment of anyone who doesn’t like him. He wants you to feel like he’s the only good person, and like he’s the only one who will care about you. And I know at least in my experience that the way I acted when I was a fan of his did genuinely cause me to feel alienated in my social life. I lost friends, I felt like I couldn’t talk to anyone “safely”. That’s how he wants his fans to feel, because at some point he really is all you have.

And that’s why dream stans are still sticking around. It’s at the point where the only way they’ll leave is on their own volition, and the more publicly fucked shit he does, the less hope I have that they’ll do that.

i don’t have much to add but i agree, and several people i know who used to be big dream fans also agreed that there was a heavily insidious ‘us vs them’ atmosphere

[melon-fodder]

personal sappy sort of vent but not really? bnha melon origins under cut hahaha

Once upon a time at the start of the pandemic, I was getting back into writing fanfic thanks to bnha. I read some fics on this site, my introduction to ‘x reader’ and I thought to myself “ya know I have a lot of time on my hands, and these people look like they’re having a good time posting these stories, so I’m gonna try”.

And so I did. I wrote and posted a little mirio shot first, and then a shinsou shot, and then I wrote a soulmate AU for Aizawa that gained a little bit of attention followed by an endeavor fic that gained more.

And because it was the pandemic and everyone was online all the time, the engagement was high. My inbox was full of asks about those two, and I just got to talk and talk about them. I made mutuals. I made friends. I joined my first discord server. I kept writing.

@lady-lauren and I started DMing, going from writing to like life stories basically. The paragraphs we were sending back and forth lmao thinking about it makes me laugh. And she introduced me to Nyki, and we all just existed and created and consumed.

There was a lot of toxicity in the bnha fandom back then, though. I mean, there still is, but it was different back then somehow. I had my favorite characters, and Aizawa was a really big one, but I ended up sort of drifting. Or distanced myself, I guess. Because of another writer. The way that they created and interacted with fandom, with characters. It felt… weird to write for him while sharing a space.

Anyone close to me or who has been around for these almost 5 years (omg kill me) might have an inkling about what/who I’m referring to, so I do want to state that in no way was I told to stop writing for Aizawa or that I was bad at it or anything like that. That person actually liked my version of him and told me! So the whole feeling like I couldn’t write for him was entirely self-imposed.

Anyway, a lot of stuff happened that made it harder and harder to enjoy being a part of the bnha fandom on tumblr, including the passing of one of my best friends. I still found inspiration here and there, usually for nighteye, but I was mostly out of it. I even stopped keeping up with the manga after a while.

There’s just so much personal shit wrapped up in a series that’s already full of emotion. I haven’t felt equipped to deal with all of it

Until recently.

I don’t know what clicked tbh. I was at my mom’s recovering from surgery, and I just decided it was time. The epilogue was leaked or whatever and so many blogs that I used to see post every day woke up and started interacting again, even if it was just to comment on the leaks, and it got me so nostalgic and…

I don’t know. A lot of time has passed. A lot of people have come and gone. I feel like… it feels like I don’t have eyes on me anymore. For a long time when I was posting for bnha it just felt like people were watching me with less than good intentions. It’s one of the reasons I’ve switched blogs multiple times.

But I feel better now. I feel safe. I feel a lot more stable than I did back then. Those were kind of wild times on tumblr I do not think I would want to go back.

Except for in this one particular way which is to let myself fall back in love with the series that got me into anime as a whole, the series that got me writing again. The character that made me want to sit down and write again.

I have a few favorites from the series, but tbh I think Aizawa will always be the most special simply because he was my spark. He symbolizes so fucking much for me, and that sounds so dramatic, I know, but he is quite literally the character that got me on tumblr. He was my beginning, and then I felt like I couldn’t even enjoy him for years and it sucked and I just

I’m emotional. I just. Have a lot of feelings from over the span of 4 years that I’m trying to process.

tl;dr: if it wasn’t for bnha and Aizawa specifically I wouldn’t be on this site, and I am very happy to be creating for the series and his character again

[avonne-writes]

hi! In a post about the relationship troubles fake and John have when they first start college you mentioned their sex life kinda falls off, that they don’t have sex as often, or that it feels off when they do. I would love to hear more about that,and how it effects them, Especially because they don’t talk about it so their minds just run

Thank you for the question! 💕 I'm not sure where to start so I'll just put this in bullet points 😄 I hope this makes sense, I’m sure I missed some explanations but I tried to summarize it.

Before college, their sex life was obviously limited because they didn’t have that much privacy and Gale refused to take Bucky to his place. So it was a mix of very careful and quiet non-penetrative sex if they weren't alone in the house and excited experimentation whenever they had time alone, usually during school holidays.

Basically, they had some habits together but in their new circumstances, these habits change. That means another transition period, on top of everything else. This is not a bad thing at all, but there are so many changes they need to navigate that the stress accumulates.

An example: whereas previously, they always tried to be super quiet, they can be as loud as they want now because they rent a small one-bedroom flat together. Except, Gale finds himself unable to stop holding back. He’s anxious about making possibly embarrassing sounds, especially because he realizes that Bucky has stopped holding back and yet he still isn’t very loud.

Then, of course, all their other issues have a negative effect on their sex life.

Getting used to college can be exhausting, so it's also natural that in the first semester, they don’t want to have sex as often as in the next one.

In this AU, they're not the kind of couple who get hot for each other if they're fighting. Gale can hold a grudge for a long time, but even if he doesn’t, after a fight, he usually feels drained and sad, which rarely leads to any kind of opportunity for sex.

Plus, Gale is anxious that he’s not enough for Bucky because "Bucky could have anyone and why would he settle for his first, he probably thinks that's boring." This idea makes Gale tense, hence the sex feeling off.

Meanwhile, Bucky notices Gale's tension and distraction, but he thinks it's because Gale is falling out of love with him. We know that Bucky always dreaded this moment, the - in his mind - inevitable drifting apart once high school is over. This makes Bucky anxious too, which makes him clingy, and that's enough to make the sex feel off from his side too.

So there's a whole lot of external stress and a self-feeding cycle of undiscussed uncertainties. They all exacerbate each other.

In addition, their new friends don’t help either, because they all think this relationship won't survive anyway and both Bucky and Gale would benefit from a new partner.

Thankfully, we know that this isn’t what happens.

Yes, it’s a rough patch, yes, it’s stressful, but as soon as they finally align again and all their discordant pieces slot back into harmony, sex gets better again. And this is an instant thing actually. Instant, because their sex life was affected mostly by their disharmony and not other things that are slower to heal.

They have a huge fight in which everything comes out, and it's just what they needed because they finally acknowledge all their issues but also share the fact that they both still want the other. That’s all it takes to turn the negative spiral into the first steps of revovery.

They make up and reach a hopeful, positive and relieved state that night, and they have makeup sex.

It’s the first time that they both feel that it's not teenage experimentation anymore. It’s more serious and mature, and when they say I love you, it feels deeper than ever before.

From then on, they get the same relieved-happy-loved feeling from physical intimacy and, well, let’s just say they make up for all the sex they missed in their first semester.

It keeps getting better in the next months, and it's during this period in their lives that they develop that deep and steady intimacy that makes them act like a married couple long before they even tie the knot.

♡♡♡

[williamkisser]

♡— The Mercenary and Forward when they’re sick

♡— I don’t know how to start…. here we are. I was talking with @fishermanshook some time ago on discord about random stuff as always when i expressed that i feel like writing something. I discussed it a little, i started writing a draft on tumblr and ended up writing something completely diffrent lol. But anyways. If you know me from my @williaml0ver account you’re most likely aware i retired from writing like… three months ago? I just gave up on doing it. But now that time passes i feel quite rested and ready to write something silly. Maybe from time to time i may write something more. Either way, i hope you all enjoy writing my goofy fic.

♡— Warnings: g/n reader, short fluffy hcs, a little over 400 words for each character

♡— You instantly received some mixed signals from the rugby player when he refused to wear warmer clothes on the way to his match. Sure, the days were still fairly warm, however at nights it could get really cold. William, who seemed very bold before going out, is now tucked in his bed with two blankets on.

♡— At first, the Forward feels embarrassed. He should have listened. William would like to pretend everything if fine to save his pride, but he can’t hide the symptoms even if his life depended on it. When he sneezes, it’s like if there was a small earthquake in the room - at least from what you can hear in the other room.

♡— This man leads a healthy lifestyle. Obviously, he is an athlete. He also eats a lot, mostly healthy food and has a consistent diet. You barely see him ill. But when he IS, he can be very unbearable, only calm when he’s asleep. Thank god he gets back to his shape swiftly.

♡— Inevitably, the signs of William’s illness grow stronger with time. Still, it’s just an ordinary cold, but judging by his dramatic behaviour you’d think you’ve got a victorian baby about to die from fever.

♡— That’s right. Being sick is never a fun thing, but William plans to make the best out of it. He loves being babied by you. He’s a cute menace. Constantly whimpering or whining that he’s dying and needs cuddles and kisses. He will convince you to snuggle together, knowing there’s a risk of you catching the cold as well.

♡— Whenever you’re not around, he would play with his plushies by throwing them up the ceiling and then catch them. Obviously, if one of them falls on the floor, he will specifically call for you to pick them up. Later on, he claims to already feel better, which obviously is not true. He’d get scolded for going to the toilet on bare feet, without slippers on. Much to your horror, William even takes off his fuzzy pajama and starts walking around only with his boxers on. He claims the sweat is unbearable. To avoid such situations, he needs some entertainment. Maybe play board games together? Or just have a nice chat. He’d also appreciate it if you read him a bedtime story and cuddled together.

♡— When it comes to medicine, William struggles with swallowing pills. For some reason, he just can’t do it. He needs all of his medicine as liquid, and still he would complain a little, claiming the taste is unbearable. If there’s no drinkable alternative, you may as well attempt to blackmail him into swallowing. Just say you won’t cuddle with him anymore, he’ll swallow those pills immediately.

♡— Overall, when sick, William turns into a baby. Like i said, he’s only calm when he’s sleeping.

♡— As a Mercenary, Naib has to deal and interact with a lot of people, dead and alive. He is, of course, always very cautious. There is literally no room for a mistake at a job like this, which means he pays a lot of attention to hygiene. Obviously, even if someone tries to avoid illness, everyone can get sick sometimes. Mercenaries included.

♡— When Naib’s approaching home, he begins to feel some sort of weird feeling in his throat. One thing leads to another and quickly enough he starts sneezing and feeling cold. The first feeling that comes to his head is confusion. Is this sickness going to develop further? Will he be able to continue his duties the next day? As soon as he comes home, he actually seeks medicine, but he doesn’t explicitly tell you that he’s caught a cold - though there will be signs. There’s just a growing feeling of unnecessary shame in his mind. He wishes for both of you to live peacefully, without worrying for money, so he considers to continue, despite being sick.

♡— Naib, just like William is a healthy man. He has his routine and is fit, he also eats healthy. He gets ill a little more often than the Forward, but still, it’s a rather rare occurence when you see him coughing. Surprisingly enough, when you realize he’s sick, he doesn’t protest when you tell him to rest. Naib is actually calm and obedient. As much as weak and uncomfortable the virus makes him feel, he probably enjoys not having to be in charge from time to time. He as well heals fast.

♡— The Mercenary tries to stop the cold before it starts to intensify. He stays in bed and takes the needed medicine, but it is sadly no help. Yet, he won’t make a big scene of it. You might hear him complain about having a sore throat here and there, but it’s not constant.

♡— He won’t mind, and will be actually grateful when you take care of him, but he’s capable of healing on his own. It’s up to you if you want to take the risk and cuddle with him, Naib won’t force you, although he’d like it a lot. Usually, you’re the one clinging to the Mercenary when sleeping, to your surprise, for this period he becomes a greedy cuddle bug. You may tell him that he’s gripping you a little to rough.

♡— Whenever you’re not around, at first he’d probably find a way to kill time. Would appreciate it if you brought him a book. While going through illness, his appetite, which already is quite big by default, would raise drastically. You should control him a little, unless you want to see him running to the toilet every ten minutes. After some time, Naib states that he already feels stronger and wants to help around the house, which you should not allow him to. Make sure he’s not overworking himself. While he usually prefers to sleep in boxers and a tank top, for sick days he actually dresses up in his pajama.

♡— About medicine, he won’t complain about it and will take whatever you offer him, Naib however is an avid enjoyer of natural medicine, saying that the factory-made one doesn’t taste that great. Both ways are fine though. Maybe prepare some warm tea for him?

♡— Overall, taking care of a sick Naib is a pleasant experience. He is very calm and doesn’t make much hustle.

Idv x reader tag how are you guys feeling today……. im kind of eepy…….. it’s almost 2am yippee

[theresthesnitch]

It's about community, y'all.

I’ve found myself recently in a fandom interaction that has left me feeling very uncomfortable, and I want to talk about it. 

I will not be sharing usernames or fic names, so please do not publicly mention who they are if you figure out who this is. 

About a month ago, I was messaged by an account that doesn’t follow me, asking me to read their friend’s fic. The initial message was very flattering–their friend was a big fan of my work, and it would be so nice for them to get a comment from me on it. Honestly, it was such a sweet message, and I said I was busy right then, but I’d make time to read it.

When I opened the fic, it was a username that I didn’t recognize. Which is not terribly surprising, but I do recognize and notice regular commenters and people who regularly interact with me on Tumblr. (Which, by the way, is a good thing. These people all have a special place in my heart, and I love seeing their interactions.) This person also had no other fics published to AO3, and no bookmarks on their account. 

 I am an email hoarder, which means that every comment, kudo, and tumblr follow I get an email notification for is still stored in my email. I searched my inbox for the writer’s username, and nothing came up. I don’t mean nothing significant, I mean not one single comment, kudos, or follow from the account. I searched the account who messaged me, and got the same result. No one single comment, kudo, or follow. 

The thing that may not be immediately obvious from the outside is that many writers connect with each other as well. We share fic recs, snippets, and plot bunnies. We also talk about comments that we love, fans that we enjoy seeing in our notes, and significant interactions. 

Which is to say that the first thing I did was drop this fic with an explanation of what happened into the “fic recs” channel of our discord. Immediately, I find out that this is not a unique situation. Many of the writers in that discord were also approached, either by the actual writer or a friend, and asked to read it. 

I messaged the account again and asked if their friend was operating under a new username because I didn’t recognize them. Which is valid and I know people change their usernames sometimes. The friend responded that they did, but that the friend wouldn’t like them sharing it. I looked into the tumblr that messaged me then, and the account had been set up one singular day before they messaged me, with nothing more than a few art reblogs on their blog. 

At this point, I’m getting a really weird feeling from this, and I decide to just not respond anymore. I’m not going to call them out, but I’m also not going to engage. 

Yesterday, the “friend’s” account sent me another message, asking if I’d read it and telling me again that they can give their friend’s old account name if I really want it. They also mention that their friend read through and commented on a bunch of my older fics–which they did. Between May 24 and June 1, they left 17 comments on some of the very first fics I ever wrote and published. However, the way she tells me this feels very much like a quid pro quo - I commented, now where’s yours? 

I jumped back into the discords of some of my mutuals, and asked about this again. It turns out that all of us have gotten a weird vibe from them, and that this all feels like such a manipulative, creepy way to ask for exposure on your fic. 

And, because I’m me and needed more information, I went back to their fic and looked through the comments and bookmarks. 

There’s an ongoing discussion in many writer’s circles about interactions being lower, particularly comments, which you’ve probably seen crop up around Tumblr as well. While I don’t want to rehash this discussion here, the basic consensus is that most established writers are seeing fewer comments than ever, even when there’s a significant number of kudos. 

This fic has a not insignificant number of kudos, but a surprisingly large amount of comments and bookmarks, comparatively. Enough that just seeing the stats shocked me. I looked through the comments and saw lots of well known fandom writers, as well as some otherwise blank accounts. It strikes me as very odd–especially from a new, blank account and for a one shot without chapters to build up an audience. 

I jumped back in the discord and asked my mutuals about this again. Several people described really weird interactions with this individual. I heard stories about this person being really flattering when they initially reached out, vaguely complimenting the writer, then completely ghosting after the writer comments on their fics. 

I’ve debated for a bit about whether to post on this or not. The entire interaction has left such a bad taste in my mouth. I’ve no doubt that the writer and their friend are the same person, and I suspect some of their comments are fabricated as well. It’s elaborate, to a weird degree, and I feel so uncomfortable by it. 

The thing is, I love talking to people who have read my work. I love getting sent a fic rec. I read so little at this point just due to life and limited time that basically everything I read is something a mutual wrote or something recommended to me. I also really love the “it would mean so much to me if you read this” message, but only if it’s genuine. I have read first fics of new writers who sent me their own work, with their name attached, and asked me to. 

Fandom writing is a community, and that works best when we have a little give and take. But when you’re out there manipulating interactions, building up fake flattery to only not follow through, that breaks down our community. It’s unfortunate, manipulative, and honestly, a bit creepy. 

I don’t know if they just thought we (the writing community) wouldn’t notice, but we did. I’ve talked to other writers about this, and if any of my mutuals had a similar experience, I’d love to hear about it. 

To my “friend” who wrote this fic, I know you’re proud of your fic, but you’re not doing yourself any favors with this behavior. I will not be reading it. I also will not be responding to you or “your friend” any further. I wish you luck, and I hope you find what you’re looking for. 

[mossy-paws]

hello! I do parody accounts of phighting characters on twt, I was wondering if you would allow me to make a parody account of one of your biografts? (Leaning towards mossgraft or jestergraft.) I was also here to half ask if you have any more content of either of them../nf/lh

STARES SO HARD,,, I think I would be cool with that!! I definitely recommend dm-ing me on here or discord though so we can both talk about it a bit more so we can lay some stuffs down :3! Especially if you’re thinking about doing one for Mossgraft since I’m really attached to her specifically + they have PROBABLY the most expansive lore!

Also,, ohhhhhh boy do I got some food for you /silly like I said Mossgraft is my BABY (they were also my first EVER PHIGHTING oc and were made like 2 days after I got into the game LMFAO) so out of all of my bio’s them, Clementine, and Wall-e are by far my favorites

buuuut for Mossgraft and wall-e specifically with lore, there is a LOT, so I’ll start with a bit of design and lore history and then get into the really fun stuff :3

soooo where to begin! So to start, like I said Mossgraft was my first ever phighting oc made basically when I first got into the fandom, originally, Mossgraft was a custom built supposed to be betagraft prototype that failed pretty harshly and became sentient and then booked it out to playground LMAO, they were also supposed to be married to catshot because when i first started playing the game I wouldn’t stop calling him “wife” (catshot as a skin was also literally the ENTIRE reason why I first started playing,, that and broker). This is not Mossgrafts lore anymore (at least not fully) and they safe to say aren’t married to anyone now.

Mossgrafts old design was also WAAAAY different to say the least, when making it I was having such an actual pain trying to get the colors right + I didn’t really have much down for their lore, so you can probably see the struggle I was having there LMFAO

Now! Time for the fun parts when it came to design, obviously you can tell after I created that absolutely horrific version of them I still was VERY unhappy about their colors and stuff, so I was playing around with them on this one specific piece (if anyone remembers this you are the GOAT) which was I BELIEVE(?) made when BH was first introduced. At this point I don’t really remember much extra lore and stuff for them (not even the venom bits were thought up yet) but yeah!

At this point though, I really wanted to make an actual design for Mossgraft, and so I did! This was when I first came up with the idea of murder dronifying them /j and when I first came up with Wall-e! At this point Wall-e’s lore was basically non-existent other then what’s on the ref LMAO and mossgraft’s was still a huge WIP

Now this is just a really small but pretty influential thing I made for Wall-e, this was when I was first coming up with his lore! Basically, Wall-e is one of three original biograft proto-types created by subspace. All of them were made as a sort of practice to see if they could actually mass produce Biografts- with Wall-e being the zetagraft proto, Violet being the Betagraft proto, and cyan being scrapped completely

Why was Proto-type cyan specifically cancelled? Well, all of the protos were made for one reason; testing. They were made to be used as testers and NOTHING else, just as a sort of social experiment in a way where Subspace can monitor their behaviors and such and then later on make changes to the designs and coding and such. This didn’t go well though, and Cyan ended up going rogue and dismantling Violet (who was also beginning to go grow sentient, it was just much less violent about it and was uncontrollable because of fear) and then breaking out of the labs and going on a rampage and killing a ton of Blackrock civilians before it was eventually recaptured and killed. Wall-e, afterwards, was SUPPOSED to be dismantled, but managed to somehow escape (NOTE: this was changed later down the line and now in wall-e lore Cyan had attempted to dismantle it too but failed before it was detained). Mossgraft, shortly before cyans failure, was created as another way to test biografts made for war, created with Violets alternative blueprints and made 3000 times more deadly… this though, also failed. After cyans failure (NOTE: in new lore, Mossgraft was the one who eventually killed Cyan after a few months of it being rampant, which is why wall-e was eventually saved by it) Mossgraft managed to break free from Blackrock, saving wall-e from being dismantled in the process completely by accident, and… then moved to playground to be spiteful…… It didn’t ask for wall-e to come follow it, wall-e just ended up tagging along after his saving and just,, hasn’t left. Mossgraft doesn’t really mind this though, since wall-e hasn’t done anything to harm Mossgraft. (Maybe Mossgraft cares a LITTLE bit about it, just maybe, they would never say it though).

in playground, Mossgraft was later found and taken in (?) by a small gang of demons who use it as basically a fucking threat to anyone trying to annoy them LMAO, these guys don’t have designs yet, but they’re named Rainbowcape (just a little gal,, she’s as sweet as can be in most occasions although she can be a bit mean even if she doesn’t mean it, she has a good heart though), Overseer spider (a manipulative little rat of a man /j who’s a Thieves den/Blackrock demon who later moved to playground because he hated both of his parent factions. Does he like playground? No, no not really, but in his opinions it’s better than either of the latter.), and a few other demons who I really haven’t put much thought into. Mossgraft honestly does NOT care much about the gang, they just also tolerate their presence because 1) they haven’t done anything violent to Mossgraft yet 2) treat Mossgraft really well since Mossgraft is basically their shield and means of protection and 3) Mossgraft kind of thinks they’re funny, it’s like watching a sitcom with those demons.

For dreamgraft, its lore ties pretty heavily in with Mossgrafts, although its lore is much less “pronounced” then M’s is. For Dreamgraft, it was created specifically to target and kill Mossgraft, other rogue bio’s, and demons (although mainly to track down and kill Mossgraft). I actually came up with dreamgraft’s concept well. From their namesake, although they looked way different in my dream then on paper LMAO

But! Back on track, Dreamgraft was created using another offshoot of regular betagraft (and a tiny bit of violets) blueprints AFTER Mossgraft had left. Why now, would a biograft be made specifically to hunt down another one? Well… this is because of Mossgraft basically being a walking war crime, which was also why it was never remade, Mossgraft is INCREDIBLY dangerous and the other factions did not appreciate it getting loose so they had to get on blackrocks ass about fixing their mistakes and killing it……. This is easier said then done though, because Mossgraft knows DAMN WELL that it does not wanna get dismantled so will gladly do anything to avoid getting caught by anything it so even suspects to be of Blackrock origin. So, they had to come up with a counter too it- and so Dreamgraft was made! Its code, unlike Mossgrafts, was absolutely PERFECTED and because of this Dreamgraft isn’t sentient, its biggest goal is to track down Mossgraft and kill it. Mossgraft is smart enough to know how to avoid it in most circumstances, though it has had some close calls in the past since dreamgraft’s toxic vapor can be a real pain to get away from.

Jestergraft was created as something akin to a “show biograft” and is subspaces personal pet biograft. How did he get away with making this when it does almost nothing else other then looking pretty, you may ask? No clue! But hey at least it can tell you the time and juggle!! Anyways subspace basically just wanted a biograft he could baby and it SHOWS with Jestergraft… especially because it’s sentient and boy oh boy is this little fucker smart. It’s code corrupted almost the second it was made but it’s learned how to masterfully hide it since if it shows any sort of sentience around its creator it’ll get dismantled. It also copy’s subspace’s manner of speech (making it even more insufferable to be around).

It also doesn't really *like* other biografts, but it knows how to manipulate them into doing its bidding’s when subspace isn’t looking. Dreamgraft on the other hand it HATES because it can’t. It thinks Dreamgraft 1) is a threat to its status and 2) sentient…. It’s not, though, why does Jestergraft think it is? Absolutely no clue at all. I like to think of it as some mad little brother trying to pin all bad these things on the really tired, annoyed, and uncaring older sibling who’s done absolutely nothing.

so, that’s basically it for a lot of their lore! I’m not gonna be doing mangografts/clementines/or sootgrafts for the time being since sootgraft and Mangograft have their own lores and clementines would take HOURS to write out fully (I actually DO have a plan for drawing out a poem I wrote out about biografts that will reveal a lot of his lore in the distance future, but for now I just don’t really have the time to dedicate to it :sadface:). For Mossgraft and wall-e though, I do actually have some FUNNNN ideas for them planned in the future! Specifically since I’ve been getting into transformers I’ve been itching to make some fun little “what if” alternative designs for them specifically, as well as some other lore pieces and such of them! For prototype cyan, I actually wrote a small little fic of them a long time ago, I doubt I’ll ever post it but if I do I’ll be sure to attach it to here! It’s very unfinished and old though so it’s not the most interesting read LOL

now,, for some fun stuff! Doodles and extra little pieces :3

First one is because a friend said they wanted to kiss Mossgraft (hi steam), second was actually a tumblr request! It was a fun little piece where someone asked me how the bio’s would react to a phone (fun fact, none of them know what one is (besides jester that is)). The third and fourth pieces were me trying to redesign Mossgraft and wall-e after their second ref was made (I later gave up because of motivation loss LMAO). Sixth was self indulgent, I just wanted to draw them as cats, seventh is an old old doodle of Cyan, this was me just testing out a brush. And the last is just a fun little wall-e thing

anyways! I hope you liked the lore dump, if you wanna talk more about making a parody account please do dm me for sure :3! I do got some important stuff to lay down (duh) but yeah!

[am-i-the-asshole-official]

WIBTA if i incorporate an old friend’s oc into my oc’s backstory?

hi!! this is a more lighthearted AITA- i’m basically just gauging proper oc etiquette bc i have no clue if this would be rude.

i (18X) am a d&d player. have been for a long time! i started at 13, with a huge group of my friends. we didn’t get to play much bc there were so many of us, but it was a blast and i ended up loving my character, natphi (a classic tiefling bard) so much that she eventually became a standalone oc for me.

in-game, natphi entered the party alongside her friend, luca (a half-elf ranger), who was played by another one of my friends (18 or 19 X now, 13 at the time). we were baby gays, and natphi and luca had a really fun sort of will-they-or-won’t-they wlw best-friendship. it was a great dynamic, and we both loved drawing them together and discussing them and even rping how they first met over discord. it was a blast, and eventually natphi’s friendship with and pining over luca became an important part of her story and character to me.

however, by this point luca’s player and i were going to different schools and had dropped several friends in that group due to standard teen drama, so it was hard to keep in touch. we stopped talking a couple of years ago with no hard feelings- just a classic drifting apart over time.

natphi is still one of my most beloved ocs (we’ve been through a lot together) and i still daydream about her friendship and such with luca. it gets difficult when i want to draw her in any meaningful way, though. luca isn’t my character, and if i drew her and posted it i would absolutely link back to her creator’s instagram, but it feels really odd to make and post art of the oc of someone you don’t talk to anymore. i can’t go and ask them if they mind, because once again, we haven’t spoken in years.

i’ve been chewing on this dilemma for a bit, but an idea came to me as i started preparing to make natphi a character sheet for a oneshot i’m doing soon: i could make natphi’s relationship with luca a part of her backstory and come up with some tragic separation of them. it would work great with natphi’s current backstory and deepen her character motivations, so there’s no problems there. however, i still feel really iffy using a now-stranger’s character with mine, even if i were to only refer to luca as more of a vague ghost than a full character. part of me feels like i’m “copying” her and just changing bits and pieces so she doesn’t look exactly the same. technically, nobody would actually be able to tell unless i told them, but i’d still feel like an ass for doing it if it’s “cheating,” for lack of a better word. however, i also know i’m a chronic overthinker, so i’m asking all of you instead: would i be TA for this??? i genuinely have no idea. thanks in advance for the input! ^^

What are these acronyms?

[knizuu]

When 2 ain’t enough ya gotta have // PT 3 OF LOOKING AT FANG’S STORY // SPOILERS BTW

Wawa first of all, hi!!! If you don’t get what I’m talking about:

This is my original rant with Superstars included! [Check out the other reblogs too if ya want =w=]

And This should be about the start of the Fang miniseries!!

OK OK NOW LETS GET INTO IT

There’s some things I said on discord already related :]

Sooooo….you might’ve noticed the fact Team Hooligan is kindaaaaa not a thing anymore :’]

CRIESSS AS A HOOLIGAN FAN SORRY-

Anyways efkjwghrj, my main point is that he got left because Fang was IGNORANT

Now I don’t wanna say he’s thinking he has more power, because Fang knows DARN WELL he doesn’t have the skill compared to Bean or Bark. He isn’t strong enough, he isn’t crazy enough, he’s defined by what he NEAR to, like his Marvelous Queen. “Ignorance is bliss” and I think he embodies this idea to the extent of how awful it can be in the long run.

Oh ye the Marvelous Queen? Da she?

Fang ABSOLUTELY is caring of Marvelous Queen, heck, even more publicly shown rather than Bean or Bark. Now ye he could just not CARE about Bean or Bark but that’s just a lie. Even at the worst, he NEEDED fighters near him to help his journey. That’s just how it is to me :]

But I think what makes Marvelous Queen so much more valuable is the point I already shared: It’s what defines him. It’s what brings the power to HIM ONLY. With Bean and Bark, it makes TEAM HOOLIGAN look good. With the Marvelous Queen, FANG’s impressive. Because it’s such a great device Fang uses perfectly. So it means SO MUCH to him if he had the Marvelous Queen by his side.

…Which is sad, if you know the fact the Marvelous Queen EXPLODED IN HIS DUCKING FACE [Trip I love you but ARHGHHGHJG-

Oooh so if you know me, there’s been two other pictures like this. One being of him thinking “WHERE’S BEAN AND BARK?” and the other more so “I cannot be a failure AGAIN.” This one is…a lil new to me for some reason but I’ll still use it!

Ok well the first one was the “WHERE’S BEAN AND BARK?” Which goes great with dis one! Both are worried about WHERE Bark and Bean are because they’re supposed to be there for Fang. Like always.

In the last one, he’s just…alone, with no one he’s really thinking about probably BECAUSE he doesn’t want to think about Team Hooligan.

Yknow cuz if I was in his raggedy shoes, I’d ALSO feel pretty put down from two hooligans who now seem to be judging me! It’s understandable! What he’s so ignorant about is the fact he CARES about these goobers. Yes he uses them to get paid and shiz but he’d also had GREAT chemistry with them!! They were a solid team who just had FUN for darn sakes!

But perhaps he’s getting too stuck in the comfort. Bean doesn’t have the calm social skills and Bark is practically ignored. They’re a strong unit but not mentally!! You have a good soul being pushed aside, an emotional help who’s getting mad, and an insecure leader who’s getting pissy.

This isn’t who they USED to be, heck the reasons as to what changed kinda boggled me. But I DO understand how

Fang felt like he was going through more trouble with Bean and Bark, hence he didn’t even BOTHER to ask them to come back

He cares about his self worth more than his team, because he doesn’t want to be a failure. He wants to gain money and power so he’s strong.

Because of 2, he’s forgetting he truly loves his team. That they actually help him throughout his journeys but he’s taking them for granted. I guess he sees the Marvelous Queen as ALL. HE. NEEDS.

aight so we all getting this?? Ok ok

Ok ok just a lil note before a bigger notice-he DOESS say his team mates’ names for alert. But in one of my older posts, I still do believe when Fang’s first confused where his team is, that he’s saying their names out of fear. Because now he’s scared. [in that past moment]

ANYWAYYYY

Ahme kewhbfe this was from the new sonic channel art!! [it might not be too new now ASHFVGWR]

Ya see how the first image tells their relationship? How Fang is…[gasp/silly] INSIGHTFUL??? This may not mean much but the fact I brung up him being ignorant for so long-this is new

Because I thought Fang didn’t care for Trip AT ALL when Superstars first came out-then I saw the pancake image and went “Oh ok so he does like Trip in the sense she is caring and loyal” and this…OH WOWHW HWOH OHWIDWH THIS

It’s only the English translation, but “I wonder what Fang thinks when he sees Trip, who obeys without giving up…” IS SUCH A STRONG MYSTERY

Like ye, what *DEOS* HE THIJNK?? [what does he think pft]

Personally, I think he’s reminding himself of his team and Marvelous Queen

But what’s so special about her is that she isn’t doubtful to Fang as much as Bean and Bark. Yknow cus Bean and Bark has more of their own identity and sternness. And with the Marvelous Queen, heck she can’t speak a word! She’s just the product of what Fang needs to win a battle or win some cash. Trip is like the cheap Walmart version of a Marvelous Queen. But instead of being perfectly one noted as Fang’s helper, she’s clumsy. Though it seems Fang is not TRULY mad about that. Because he’s being respected, saluted, and seen for the wonder he is-/lyrics sorry I love the lion king sm

So…I think he’s gaining more control! I think with a newbie gal such as Trip, he’s getting more insightful on how he acted or acts now. From Superstars/Trio of Trouble, he’s anxious and passionate for being a successful man. But in here, which is supposed to be before Superstars, he’s extremely cocky and forgetting social queues. And for Fang’s Big Break, well I say it does seem like a break! From just…being Fang and not Team Hooligan, Fang’s a lot less crazy or extreme. He’s more calm and collected. Maybe it’s the fact he got too comfortable with being the leader in Team Hooligan. Got too ignorant and was left with no one at the end. Now he’s learning. All anew! With Superstars, he’s grown to a new light. Trip seems to have left a mark! She made Fang more insightful but of course at the expense of Fang losing himself. [As in, the Marvelous Queen]

So I wonder where Fang will go now!! Will he get with Bean and Bark again?? Will he learn to be a better jerboa?? If Trip and Fang really get their new adventures…could we learn more? Ig we’ll never know until there’s more content. At least it’s exciting!

I just hope wherever Bean and Bark are, that they aren’t too mad at Fang. Maybe the separation is what heals them? Because at the core, they’ll ALL unstable. Darn it, Sega, give us more Hooligan content!!/silly but yeh!

[you-are-my-king-now-cariad]

Discord Thoughts

So basically this is room for me to talk about things in the Discord that inspired/reminded me of certain things, that I wanted to say but the conversation moved on, etc. In other words, I’m just rambling here. But y’all seem to like that, so here. No particular ordering of anything besides the order they came up-and some of them might be from my irl friends, I’m not actually sure.

Alice as Regent/Squire

Staying Close

Root Will Save Him

Willark VS Brelwyn

This might be my Brel Glasses, but it seems like William and Lark are intentionally the opposite of Bree and Sel. We don’t see them much, but we do know a few things: William is unquestionably good and pure, neither of them seem like they’re going to make a move, and Lark is remarkably perceptive about Brel.

1. William and Sel are surprisingly accurate foils. (Is it still a foil when they’re kind of opposites?) One is lawful good (and is proud of that) and the other is chaotic good. One is human, one is demon. One is never going to hurt anyone unless he absolutely has to, the other is… uh, Sel. Obviously both are generally ‘good,’ but Sel is fighting off an internal chaotic evil demon-not exactly going to blame him for being less than angelic. Also considering William has always been a safe space for Bree, particularly when Sel’s actively hunting her, and that they’re friends? It starts to feel intentional. Am I making any sense at all?

2. Both Lark and William are the definition of incredibly adorable gay panic.

Instalove VS Devotion

Okay, this is the first one I’m actually typing out bc I have the most to say about it and it’s probably the least coherent. Thanks @paigeagainstdamachine for making a vague comment that started this whole train-

I’m not saying instalove is ‘bad,’ or that her relationship with Nick is somehow fake because it was fast. Let’s get that out of the way. You can absolutely have a fast romance that is still incredibly real and long-lasting-see my parents, who were dating for 6 months before getting engaged and are still married after ~25 years.

But I will say that as someone currently in high school… I’ve seen this movie a lot. It’s true love with the boy who just moved in next door, until he’s not new and shiny anymore and you start seeing all the shitty parts of his personality. He’s not a bad person, either-just one too many red flags or negatives, but it’s not like he’s abusive or cheating or anything.

This doesn’t have to echo in Legendborn. I do believe that Nick genuinely loves Bree, and that it’s mutual. (At the very least, whatever they have is more than just friendship.) I’m just… if they’re endgame, they shouldn’t feel so immature. Yes, they’re adorable (especially in LB), but it feels like a high school romance-and it is. It feels like my brother’s senior relationship-they were going to different colleges and both agreed that they probably wouldn’t be able to manage long-distance, so there was a time limit from the beginning. I can’t actually explain why Brick feels so… young? It just does.

Brel, on the other hand? Yeah, ofc it’s also a high school romance, but like… there is so much trust and devotion and it feels natural. They have the kind of relationship where you actually can stay friends when you break up because you just fit together. Then again, I’m just a sucker for well-written edgy demon boys, so I could be a little biased. They fight, but a healthy relationship isn’t defined by ‘we don’t ever fight.’ It’s defined by ‘we can forgive and forget.’ It’s defined by ‘no matter how angry I might be towards you, whatever mistakes you’ve made, I don’t want you to suffer.’ And that’s exactly what Sel and Bree have found.

“We fought…”

“We’ll always fight, I think.”

They fight, and they move on. They forgive. They love the other no matter what. And not to be a Sel apologist, but uhh this is exactly the kind of relationship he’s needed for so long and as much as the “I can fix him” mindset is awful she literally is giving him a reason to be a good person. Both make really big mistakes, and they get mad, say and do things they shouldn’t… but they always, always come back together.

[icemankazansky]

@film-in-my-soul tagged me in this really cool fic meme:

Everyone deserves to toot their own horn and be proud of their work! So, this tag game is fairly simple.

Promote 5 works that you're really proud of and share a little about why you're so proud of it! Then tag as many people as you like. You can reblog this post and add on to it (why not create a giant reclist to throw around?) or steal this header (and border if you like) and make your own post!

The Storm Series

Top Gun, Iceman/Maverick, E

Eight years after Maverick and Iceman meet at TOPGUN, Maverick is running the program and Iceman is badly injured in combat, which finds him sent back to Miramar to teach until he's fit to fly again. Things move pretty fast after that.

I'm proud of many things about Storm. It was my first major work for Top Gun, and I'm really happy with the characterization. The way the characters and their relationship evolve through the series—I'm proud of that, and I'm proud that I was able to pick up the series after eight years and write two more installments that belong in the universe with the first two. Despite all the ways I had changed as a person and a writer in the time between, I was able to slip back into it like an old coat, and that is something you strive for as an author.

Dreams of Impact

Top Gun, Iceman/Maverick, M

Maverick's trip in Darkstar takes him further than he ever imagined possible.

When I was a baby writer, I wrote a lot of really long stories. For several years, I worked with another writer on a collaboration that surpassed 200k words, and we never finished it. That was by far my longest work, but many of my stories pre-2010 are 10k, 20k, 50k.

Now it's rare that I write something that long. Part of that is that I learned how to say a lot without that many words. Pithy was a word I heard constantly in grad school, and I needed to learn how to do that. I have, and I'm a much better writer for it. I'm proud of that.

There are a lot of other reasons that I don't write long, multi-chapter epics anymore, everything from writing professionally to my health, and to be honest, sometimes I miss it. Dreams of Impact offered me a wonderful opportunity to get back to that kind of writing. I enjoyed writing the story very much, and I'm proud of how it turned out. The longer, more-plot heavy story muscles had not been flexed in a while, but I guess I still got it.

the weight of my heart is measured in carats

MCU, Tony/Pepper, G

What's so impressive about a diamond except the mining?

Remember what I said about pith? This one is like a good sword: perfectly weighted, perfectly balanced.

you are the moon that breaks the night for which i have to howl

Willow, Sorsha/Madmartigan, M

Magic leaves a trace, and part of the curse stayed in her blood, and Sorsha never forgot what it was like to be the wolf. Even after her mother transformed her back, the wolf lived still, tucked behind her breast.

I love magical realism, and I love making things into fairytales, and I love finding ways to fit discordant things together so they seem completely natural. I did all of those things very well in this story. It was also a gift for a dear friend who is also an excellent writer, and she absolutely lost her gotdam mind when she read it, and I am proud of that.

running through the underworld into your room

Top Gun, Iceman/Maverick, T

“Most of my grey hairs you gave me,” Ice said, unable to keep the fondness out of his voice even altered as it was. He paused. “You don’t know how much I wanted this. To grow old with you.”

This story is a standalone piece, but it was also—for me—an exercise (an exploration, maybe) in two very specific things. (It doesn't matter what. What does matter is: Not long after I had posted this, I talked to a couple people—dear friends but also writers I respect—about it once they'd read it, and they both told me how well I had done those two things, even though I hadn't mentioned them anywhere. I'm proud of that. It's extremely gratifying to know you can hit a target even if it's a target no one else can see.)

Tagging: @topgunreacts @escritoireazul @boasamishipper @maverickcalf @adiduck @hangsters @thelastplantagenet @andmakeithome

[remturtle]

My Yuusona is finally complete! (Click for better quality)

( SD done by the amazing @wysteriadelights )

Template made by @unfinished-projects-galore ! They have a lot of other templates too, which I’ll (hopefully) be using in the future^^

Other characters included:

Luan - belongs to @v-anrouge

Aru - belongs to @wysteriadelights

For those of you who are wondering:

I used to go by @/remturtle and @/remmupom. I deactivated the initial blog after experiencing burn out while also struggling with a severe decline in mental health, which in hindsight had formed from the anxiety of having a reasonably sized following and receiving the occasional threat, hate rant or revolting message by some anons. for obvious reasons I never responded to these directly.

I then moved over to @/remmupom (which I believe is still active at this time) but I no longer have access to it after a certain incident. (Of which I will not go into detail about) and have since moved here.

I do still have brainstorms, drafts and designs for and of old twst AUs I had made but I won’t be pressuring myself to share or get back into them unless I feel like it. Though you can still ask about a few of them! I just don’t do so much writing anymore.

As a final note: this new blog is not solely dedicated to twisted wonderland, I have other interests to fall back on in case of burn out now.

If there are any previous mutuals of mine who would like to re-connect just shoot me a message^^ (especially if we talked on discord, as I have had to make a new account there as well.)

[bambi-kinos]

excerpts from the McLennon server (hamburg part 2)

Thank you everyone for your patience. This is Part Two of the ongoing Hamburg Conversation from the McLennon server. Part One is here: https://www.tumblr.com/bambi-kinos/718114537612656640/excerpts-from-the-mclennon-server

In Part Two of the Hamburg Conversation we discussed the 1960 trip from Paul’s POV and why he abandoned the Beatles to get a job as a coil winder. This goes into Stuart and Klaus and the Exis, plus how Paul reacted to John’s mind games where he pitted his loved ones against each other. Much has been made of John in Hamburg and how it connected to his later patterns but very little discussion of Paul comparatively.

This conversation was much messier as it spanned several days. We used Discord’s “reply” feature liberally. Sometimes you will see disparate time stamps; this is because I decided to pair the replies with the original comments they were replying to for the sake of readability. Please let me know if there are any confusing points where this doesn’t work and I’ll do my best to clarify the conversation. 

***

Leggy「little love of mine」 — 05/07/2023 11:02 PM I am back on my bullshit about Hamburg again. this period is just super fascinating to me because of all the possibilities and the way things happened the way they did

I also want to understand why Paul chose John when the first Hamburg trip really sucked in a lot of ways and it could easily have ended with them going off to do something else.

in the beginning John helped Stuart bully Paul and he ostracized Paul from the group via the Exis (apparently deliberately? I go back and forth on this all the time, because I wouldn't put it past John to do it on purpose... but then again his MO was to get enamored with something new only to eventually drop it and snuggle up to Paul again so John probably didn't see it that way?) But once all of that was over and they were back in Liverpool, John tracked down Paul and he had to do a lot of shitwork to get back into Paul's good graces again.

Paul found a job at his dad's behest but I don't think he would have continued with the Beatles if John hadn't come to fetch him. John did something really smart when he came to fetch Paul from the yard where Paul was working: he brought George. First he had to tell George "yeah I'm back" but then he brought George with him to ask Paul to come back. Smart. Strength in numbers. Shows that he's serious and it doesn't look like he's begging because he brought another band member with him.

but Paul didn't leave that job immediately. It took months for Paul to fully come back to the Beatles. John eventually had to give him an ultimatum. I think after the experience of Stuart and the Exis and the group bullying, I think that those months were John working his way back into Paul's good graces again. And eventually Paul forced John to prove that he still wanted Paul, in a way. Earlier when we talked about this Betty made a really good point that Paul was the one fighting for the music, like John was. Stuart met Astrid and John let him go because he knew Stuart was already choosing Astrid over him so it was better not to fight it. But that period after John came back... that's fascinating. John recuperated for a while by not telling anyone he had come back. Paul got a job (and it sounds like he didn't need a lot of pushing) and I think it was because he might have been preparing to leave the Beatles thing behind completely.

Like I think Paul came back to Liverpool thinking that he and John were not friends anymore. IMO Paul carried the memory of the experience with the Exis around and that he remained distant from them forever.

Funnily enough, Paul has turned out the real black sheep of the whole trip. Everybody hates him and I only feel sorry for him.” — Stuart Sutcliffe in a letter to Rod Murray, late 1960

Leggy「little love of mine」 — 05/07/2023 11:09 PM I mean look at that. Look at the sheer petty contempt in that quote + the caricature. That's something else man. There's no way Paul doesn't carry the memory of that with him. And I think its present in the Revolver cover as well. Look at how Klaus portrays Paul:

I think Paul looks off to the side because that's all Klaus really gets out of him. We all know what it's like to be treated in a crappy way by friends-of-your-friends and I've said before that I think the first Hamburg trip is where a lot of John and Paul's patterns got solidified. So Paul isn't friends with the Exis, even in 1966, because he remembers who Klaus is and who he hung out with and I think those memories are very painful for him. He holds on to them. Maybe not grudges but he holds onto that pain. (And I mean, that's fair. I still remember my elementary school bully and if she were on fire in front of me I wouldn't even take a whizz on her.)

Klaus only ever saw Paul's profile... if they don't meet your eyes do you really know them? John rarely met Yoko's eyes in public I notice, whereas he was constantly diving into Paul's.... right up until that photo from the Lost Weekend where he's turned as far away from Paul as he can get... So Paul's profile being the thing Klaus drew speaks to the distance between Paul and Klaus... and Paul and the other Beatles. Even among other misfits, Paul doesn't fit in. In a lot of ways Linda was the only one who could accept him for his true self even if there was a lot of nastiness underneath that.

I think the 1966 cover is indicative that Paul held Klaus at a distance, even then. Klaus saw Paul's loneliness in Hamburg and how this made him bitter, apparently doesn't empathize with it very much since he played on HDYS.

If Klaus had tried to make friends with Paul as adults, he would have run full into the Wall. There's no way that Paul McCartney would be friends with someone who drew a caricature of him like that when Paul was friendless and in pain and the only thing he had was music and girls.

And I understand that Hamburg was full of psychosexual drama from 18 and 20 year olds, but I think that its significant because of how Paul got frozen in time due to the fame thing, struggling to grow up, suffering from a kind of Peter Pan syndrome.

So I find it interesting that... Paul got a job after Hamburg. I don't think John would have had to show up with George on Paul's lunch break and essentially beg him to come back if Paul had been gung ho about the Beatles. John had to earn his way back into a friendship with Paul. It took months for Paul to give up the job and join the Beatles fully, John remembers it as a "long trip."

There's another recollection that when John finally gave Paul the ultimatum that Paul bounced into the Cavern -- what if this is Paul being happy that John chose him, that John cared enough to give Paul an ultimatum?

John remembers it as a custody battle between him and Jim where he fought Jim for Paul's attention... but what if Paul saw it as something else entirely?

Leggy「little love of mine」 — 05/07/2023 11:20 PM Like, Paul got a job after Hamburg. He didn't know that John was back in town. I don't think we know when John told him that he was back. I think Paul got a job because he thought that he and John were not friends anymore after his experiences in Hamburg and the last thing he expected was for John to show up and nag him about coming back. I think Paul was convinced that John would go all in with Stuart and the Exis or that they were a sign that John was done with Paul completely. He didn't understand that John was watching Paul the entire time they were in Hamburg, watching Paul be in the filth with him, taking the pills and dealing with the gangsters and living for the music in a way that Stuart never could.

And from Paul's POV, the long stretch of months between John finding him at the spooling yards to beg Paul to come back, and Paul being given an ultimatum that he needed to choose between his job or the Beatles -- I think that period was Paul waiting to see if John really loved him/was really wanting to be Paul's friend or not.

BRrraCKets! — 05/08/2023 4:56 AM Paul doesnt suffer fools gladly, he called out the Exis on some of their bullshit and they didnt like it. They also took to Stuart and I would imagine it was a case of if your friend doesnt like someone then they dont either. Ive always felt that Klaus didnt like Paul, most of his drawings of him arent very nice, theres an odd one thats ok. That Revolver cover has always irked me with how hes drawn Paul compared to the others. I like your take on it.

Leggy「little love of mine」 — 05/08/2023 5:01 AM Do you remember the details on Paul's interactions with the Exis? I don't remember that from Tune In.

That's a really good point about Stu not liking him so the others took the lead from him, oof.

I think Klaus may have (hopefully) chilled out on Paul since then but yeah, I don't think they're really friendly towards each other. Maybe "dislike" is too strong but they only ever had John and Stu in common and, well. Paul never let Klaus in.

BRrraCKets! — 05/08/2023 5:04 AM Ive read of it somewhere but cant remember where!  It was just a sentence or two.

Leggy「little love of mine」 — 05/08/2023 5:04 AM Probably a Paul bio of which I am reading McCartney Legacy

we'll have to wait for Betty to wake up

BRrraCKets! — 05/08/2023 5:45 AM I wonder, when Stuart left the Beatles, did Klaus hope to take his place on the bass. Paul stepping in would have been another reason to dislike him.

Leggy「little love of mine」 — 05/08/2023 5:47 AM That's an interesting idea. No clue but maybe that's an angle....

Morrigan — 05/08/2023 6:16 PM He did. I believe he says it in his memoirs, but also in an interview about the book in 2001. He said he asked John, but it was too late; Paul had already taken up the bass

Even if that had happened, I don’t think Klaus would’ve fit in, them all being from Liverpool and Klaus being German (I’m half-German, I can say that lol)

Plus he came from a very rich (diamond mines etc) background..sure, his family lost everything in the war, but some of the posh attitude was still there. And despite being fascinated by it, he didn’t consider rock n roll “real” music

Leggy「little love of mine」 — 05/08/2023 7:19 PM did not know this about Klaus, huh

Morrigan — 05/08/2023 7:24 PM He talked about his grandfather being this fabulously rich eccentric

Leggy「little love of mine」 — 05/08/2023 7:25 PM huh! i need to check his stuff out then

Morrigan — 05/08/2023 7:31 PM It’s in this German interview

https://www.sueddeutsche.de/kultur/im-interview-klaus-voormann-ich-waere-besser-gewesen-als-paul-1.432929

With the provocative headline “I would’ve been better than Paul”

Apple_Scruff — 05/08/2023 5:48 AM Paul playing based has always sounded like a forced thing out of desperation.

I doubt he would have agreed to switch to bass if Klaus was offering.

Leggy「little love of mine」 — 05/08/2023 5:51 AM Agree but....he may not have liked it if Klaus offered since he was so pushy about Stuart's playing.

BRrraCKets! — 05/08/2023 6:14 AM He didnt want anyone else muscling in. The group nucleus was set. His guitar was shot, he was filling in on piano, a bit of bass when S couldnt be arsed to show up, what else was he to do when G&J downright refused to take it on. Theyd gone home by then too.

mynamesbetty — 05/08/2023 7:50 AM unfortunately I can't think of anything like that in what I've read, I'll take a look at Tune In and the other Paul bios I have later We know that Paul is willing to ice people out when he feels they aren't working out for him as friends/collaborators, and after months of doing the most for the group and getting shat on  by his songwriting partner and the Exis he was probably thinking "fuck it, I don't need this treatment" and got a job to start separating himself from the group

But John knows by now that Paul is his golden ticket and he has to get Paul back, so once he gets over the self-pity of leaving Hamburg in disgrace and works up the courage to ask Paul to come back, he brings George along to present a united front

The Beatles first show after coming back from Hamburg was on December 27 1960 at Litherland Town Hall, a few weeks after John arrived back in Liverpool

And I'd bet anything that Paul skipping back to rehearsal all smiles was because he felt like he'd gotten one over on Stuart and the Exis, in a "nyah-nyah he chose me over you (blows raspberries and making wanking motion)" kind of way

Leggy「little love of mine」 — 05/08/2023 8:46 AM yesss perf

And it all worked out for him when John didn't discipline Paul for punching Stuart even tho he most likely lost

He had a good feeling about John making his choice too....

Morrigan — 05/08/2023 10:24 AM According to that interview from 2001, Klaus asked John to join and play bass right after Stu left, but John said Paul had already taken up the bass

Of course, in 2001, Klaus was still speculating what would have happened if he became the 5th Beatle and saying he thinks his bass playing would’ve been better for John’s style in later years

Morrigan — 05/08/2023 10:33 AM That whole interview [Klaus] showed both admiration and, imo, some disdain for Paul (and Paul wrote the foreword for his book, I believe) In that Interview he also vehemently denies anything sexual between John and Stu

It’s a fascinating period. I believe I read John was back in Liverpool anywhere from 10 days to three weeks before contacting George and Paul Which means he couldn’t have been to any of their usual hangouts

Leggy「little love of mine」 — 05/08/2023 10:36 AM lol lmao

>better for John's later style >john and stu had nothing sexual going on incredible. so many things wrong

Leggy「little love of mine」 — 05/08/2023 12:01 PM John periodically took time off to recharge, it was one of his quirks/needs.

Morrigan — 05/08/2023 10:45 AM I thinks it’s still a bit of envy…everyone who got close to the Beatles and thinks “what if”

To be fair, he did admit that Paul was instrumental in making the Beatles famous, because “John wasn’t a frontman” and Paul was the only professional of the group

But you can read between the lines that there is disdain there for the Beatles’ early sound and Paul was a “charlatan”….the PR man

Morrigan — 05/08/2023 10:58 AM It’s interesting that John said the way he felt after he came back after Hamburg was similar to how he felt before Paris 1961…but time he wanted Paul to be there

Leggy「little love of mine」 — 05/08/2023 12:09 PM and Paris 1961 ended up being a two week period of great renewal and joy for John, all because of Paul. No wonder he tried to recreate it with Yoko.

louiselux — 05/08/2023 11:41 AM It’s such a fascinating period! In the breakup Paul must’ve recognised some of John’s behaviour from back then. Dropping Paul and replacing him with someone else who is more arty and special. John may have been being tactical about it back then, maybe playing Paul and Stu against each other,  waiting to see where the nexus of power/talent/ambition lay, and therefore his future. Paul wouldn’t have appreciated that at all, like who would? Also John must’ve known the power he had over Paul, and vice versa, in any number of ways inc sexuality, attraction, love, obsession. That cartoon by Klaus is so deeply unkind, coupled with Stu’s letter. You have to wonder what Paul was like with them, and what all of their behaviour was like on the daily.

louiselux — 05/08/2023 11:51 AM But it is so interesting that Paul got a crappy job on the lorries, John ignored them all for weeks, and Stu was never coming back to the band. Because the gig they subsequently did that Christmas at Litherland Town Hall was where they realised how good they were compared to the Liverpool bands, and how vastly exciting the public found them. So back from Hamburg they obviously collectively didn’t know where they were going or what they were doing, or even if they were a band. I wonder just how much persuasion had to go on on John’s part to get back in with Paul. A lot of charming, a lot of fuss and attention, persuading, light grovelling

Leggy「little love of mine」 — 05/08/2023 12:18 PM in Tune In there's a lot of quotes from George about how they felt they had a lot of talent compared to the other bands, even when they were JaPaGe and they didn't actually warrant the confidence. I think for them they were seeking energy, technical ability, and stamina which Hamburg earned them in spades and brought their talent up to their expectations at last.

Morrigan — 05/08/2023 11:57 AM Definitely shades of Yoko/John later on…Paul probably hoped/thought that would play out the same way as Stu.

But we also get so many contradictory stories out of Hamburg, like John claiming he and Paul bullied Stu and afterwards felt bad about it John turned away from music after Julia’s death and turned to drink and rage,  it also kinda to Stu and art..only Paul’s persistence in pursuing John (for the band, for himself) turned that a bit back around.

I always wonder if at that point, John wasn’t getting from Paul what he really wanted, also there was still the age gap.. Stu was older, maybe came across as more mature and adventurous

Even George, I believe, said with Yoko, John was trying to replicate what he had with Stu.

Leggy「little love of mine」 — 05/08/2023 12:20 PM Yeah. its a conundrum about what that means. Did John actually feel bad after bullying Stu or did he only feel bad because then Stu died and he did some self reflecting?

Paul was very instrumental in helping John cope with losing Julia, to be fair. Paul is cited by many outsiders to be the only one who never lost his patience with John even when he was being a public embarrassment or acting violent and cruel. my personal take is that Paul is the one who cleaned John up and made him fit company for Stu and Cynthia and otherwise they would have both run away from John..

louiselux — 05/08/2023 12:01 PM That is completely fascinating to think of Yoko as a Stu replacement.

Morrigan — 05/08/2023 12:03 PM Yoko’s comments how John talked about Stu every day and how he was the best friend he ever had…I always thought she did that hurt Paul. And also, Stu died so young, I can believe John put him up on some untouchable pedestal that wouldn’t have survived if Stu had lived

louiselux — 05/08/2023 12:04 PM Agreed. You have to wonder what Lennon/McCartney would have been like with a Sutcliffe in the mix. Maybe not that different, possibly. Because Paul grew in confidence and became endlessly bold and weird

louiselux — 05/08/2023 12:08 PM Yoko likely said a lot of things with the intention of hurting him

Leggy「little love of mine」 — 05/08/2023 12:08 PM A lot of people who were John-oriented have this complaint, that they think Paul was somehow "fake" just because he's good at selling and connects with an audience. IMO it always says a lot more about the complainer's personal issues with Paul rather than it being a legitimate criticism. Klaus doesn't like Paul because Paul cut the Exis down to size and Stuart apparently overtly hated him, then Stuart died and Paul took over the bass position which Klaus apparently asked for himself (‼️) and then Paul had the nerve to go swanning all over the world getting famous for being John's creative partner.... and no matter what Klaus says, he has eyes, he knows how John looked at Paul and what that meant.

It's just another case of someone being bitter because of Paul's success. John used Klaus as a bassman on HDYS the recording that Ringo walked out on but George did not.

Leggy「little love of mine」 — 05/08/2023 12:16 PM It being John looking for a potential future, that's an interesting idea. I think at that point John had kind of given up on that since he had been kicked out of art school by that point or was on his way to doing it. Music became his life because it kept his attention and he loved it -- he told a girl he was dating at the Cavern not to screw up her placement at art school the way he did. I don't know if he had high expectations for himself there -- what did John think of his heart? was he actually proud of it?

Paul said that he'd sometimes gang up on Stu with John as well as vice versa so I think it was definitely a case of John pitting them against each other to make them compete for the Best Friend spot. But then when Paul was deported he got a job instead of crawling back to John.... very reminiscent of the break up. Paul would fight for John but once he perceived he lost (Stu, Yoko) then he was perfectly capable of cutting John off. Paul is sensitive to being mistreated.

this is all speculation but I think that first trip was hard for Paul. He was lonely, he wanted John's attention, probably acted out and then got mocked and jeered at for it.

So he paid women to pay attention to him and then he was attractive and treated them decently which made him popular so while John is enjoying Stu's company and hanging out with the Exis, Paul simply hides in women and practices his guitar.

We have seen this before.

Leggy「little love of mine」 — 05/08/2023 12:21 PM John wanted an equal and Paul just wasn't it, even if they had chemistry. John didn't take Paul seriously until Hamburg in 1960 when he watched Paul become a man and watched him be furiously independent no matter what slings and arrows he took.

But Stu was patient and was able to meet John on a different field with Art, and John needed that very much. Paul was too young for what he wanted in a very real way.

with a Stuart that lived, I think Paul would have been pushed to make a public declaration to John instead of waffling forever. Stu was Paul's only serious competition.

louiselux — 05/08/2023 1:31 PM I think so too! Something would have had to give, because John could have gone running off to Stu at any moment

Morrigan — 05/08/2023 1:33 PM I do wonder about that scenario. It looked like John had accepted that Stu was off with Astrid. And the Paris honeymoon happened while Stu was still alive. It seems like J and P had cemented and defined their relationship

Now if Stu and Astrid didn’t last and Stu came back to Liverpool at some point…

He may have always been hanging around in the background…or maybe not.

mynamesbetty — 05/08/2023 2:04 PM John praising Paul's abilities as a bass player in 1980 must have rankled him lol, he said Paul was one of the most innovative bass players in rock

mynamesbetty — 05/08/2023 2:27 PM addendum: The Beatles with Chas Newby on bass played the Casbah on December 17 1960, we regret the error

Morrigan — 05/08/2023 2:36 PM Good! I hope it rankled

Leggy「little love of mine」 — 05/08/2023 3:35 PM Stu had no future in Liverpool and he knew it. His application for a position at the Liverpool art college was rejected and he had a great apprenticeship going with an older German artist who recognized his talent. Stuart had no reason to back to Liverpool except to visit. I also think that Stu found his person in Astrid and their relationship would have worked.

I think the greatest threat to Paul would not be Stu's presence but what he represented in John's life: a peer who had a profound hold on John in an avenue that Paul wasn't confident about competing in. I think Paul would be very worried about John going back to Stu for sure, because he can't help being insecure about their relationship.

I think, to this day even since John is fucking dead, Paul is still worried that he will make John disgusted or bored and that John will leave him again. Irrational? Yeah. True? You bet.

I think a timeline where Stuart lives would force Paul into a corner: either he breaks the relationship or he takes a leap of faith.

Leggy「little love of mine」 — 05/08/2023 4:01 PM if anything else, this fundamental fear of Paul's would be the driver to any action Paul took regarding John in a timeline where Stuart lives. The deathly fear that Stu will take John away from him, again... Stu didn't have to be present in Liverpool, his specter would hang over everything.

Morrigan — 05/08/2023 4:25 PM I can completely see that. And totally agree on Paul’s fears until this day.

I just wonder if Stu would’ve kept this idealised spot… or if he would’ve pissed John off some point like a lot of people did, which led John to cutting him off.

Or, I guess, John could’ve remained loyal to him like he did to many old friends (at least until New York) and maybe got him to do cover or promo art for The Beatles. Can you imagine?!

Stu was so very young; it’s difficult to say what could’ve happened

Misery — 05/08/2023 4:30 PM God and the thing with Paul in Hamburg too is like

Here’s this high strung cash strapped teenager. Now we’re going to take him to a foreign country, get him addicted to amphetamines, and completely abandon him for a “cooler” friend group. Wait, why is he being so annoying?????

Like, the exis loved George, and Pete was just doing his own thing because he was so independent from the rest of the group, meanwhile Paul is all of a sudden entirely friendless for seemingly no reason, and the things that he was doing back in Liverpool are suddenly seen as annoying and stupid, and he’s being ignored left and right.

And obviously the huge caveat for the drama in Hamburg is of course that they were all idiot teens/barely adults, who had suddenly been thrust into a new stressful circumstance, so no wonder they all went insane a little bit.

Like you’ve all said it’s something that time/stu living would change a lot, but that wasn’t meant to be

Morrigan — 05/08/2023 6:24 PM I really feel for Paul during that trip. I think we can kinda guess what he was feeling, but I can’t get a real read on John at the time.

Leggy「little love of mine」 — 05/08/2023 7:24 PM Yeah, John is a real enigma here. He was very close mouthed about this period aside from some little things. Presumably because it's too painful with Stuart's death. Or maybe he just didn't care because the whole thing didn't have the same weight for him as it did for Paul... or he was too ashamed to talk about it....

But John not caring seems very unlikely since Hamburg 1960 is where he came out even more insane about Paul.

Morrigan — 05/08/2023 7:33 PM It might’ve been the drugs, his sexual explorations, mental health issues..but it is interesting he didn’t really talk about that period… Maybe too painful because it was the real start of them as The Beatles and he really missed it

Leggy「little love of mine」 — 05/08/2023 7:38 PM ouch

this is a big part of it i bet

mynamesbetty — 05/08/2023 8:04 PM Tune In, written by the king of the Paul haters, pg 374-5

Many Years From Now, pg 64-5

Leggy「little love of mine」 — 05/08/2023 8:06 PM the amount of seething contempt for a lonely 18 year old in these paragraphs, astounding

Morrigan — 05/08/2023 10:26 PM And I don’t think we can 100% trust Stu’s view of things either. That’s maybe how he wanted things to be. I’m not saying Paul didn’t have a rough time, but Stu may have embellished somewhat in that letter (because he also knew how important Paul was to John ultimately)

Leggy「little love of mine」 — 05/08/2023 10:54 PM Yeah. It occurs to me (like now, as I'm writing this) that Stuart was probably venting in that letter. I don't think he liked Paul at all but that's a lot of hatefulness in one sentence and I really dislike the idea of John deliberately tolerating someone who overtly despised Paul that much. John was an asshole at times but I struggle to imagine him encouraging that level of antipathy. So hopefully it wasn't quite that bad for Paul.

louiselux — 05/09/2023 3:12 AM Also him thinking that a letter from anyone reveals ‘the stark truth of the matter’ rather than just another pov on a situation. Mehhhh. I didn’t know that about Klaus asking to be the bass player. He seems to be a person who was used to getting what he wanted, being rich and pretty, and is it possible that he resented Paul for taking a place in the Beatles/John’s friendship that he thought should have been his?

louiselux — 05/09/2023 3:26 AM The situation is weird and so opaque. I doubt John ‘hated’ Paul, as Stu put it, because why would he suddenly hate him after being so close? But John might’ve loved being accepted as a part of the new exciting clique and that might’ve trumped everything else for a bit. John was obsessed with having his gang. It feels like a lot of heightened teenage dynamics we’re going on.

Leggy「little love of mine」 — 05/09/2023 9:23 AM thinking that the letter holds some objective truth is a classic mistake that Lewisohn makes all the time, because its easier than accepting that there were multiple POVs on what happened. Lewisohn thinks he can flatten everything and that there's an objective "truth" to discover and present (courtesy of him naturally.) It's just dumb no matter what. One of the first things I was taught about historical study was that primary sources are king because multiple POVs proliferate. It was Paul who compared Beatlemania to an earthquake and how different stories sprout from it and they're all true.

I wonder how much Klaus was shitposting or trying to grab attention via headlines with claims like that. I would be very surprised if John gave serious consideration to Klaus joining the band, Paul was already a sure thing and he clearly wasn't going to be happy with anyone else playing bass. I hope Klaus didn't actually think he had a shot, it just makes no sense for Klaus to join the Beatles from any angle.

If he really believed that he had a shot at joining the Beatles and Paul somehow stood in his way.... then uhhhh what the heck lmao

Leggy「little love of mine」 — 05/09/2023 9:34 AM This seems very likely, good insight. Makes me wonder if John staying friends with Paul might have rankled Stu as their rivalry increased? "Don't worry Rod everyone else totally hates him here but I only feel sorry for him."

John liked new experiences and getting swept away with things so its not surprising that he got enamored with the Exis. They were arty, new, and offered a fresh POV for him to see the world. Anyone would be intrigued by such a friends group. The fact that they were happy to be dominated by John and enjoyed Stuart (especially since Stu and Astrid hit it off!) probably makes it inevitable that someone would end up on the outside and that someone was Paul.

1960 John especially would be feeling his adolescent insecurities very hard so he'd naturally want the Exis as under his thumb as he could get them. I wonder if Stuart also enjoyed being controlled that way? I don't actually know how independent he was of John compared to Paul. (Tho no one ever matched Paul in sheer tenaciousness when it came to escaping John's gravity well.)

The pills, alcohol, and sleeplessness would naturally exacerbate all this.

Morrigan — 05/09/2023 10:49 AM Maybe I’m being too judgmental when it comes to Klaus; it’s hard to judge his tone in written form. Maybe he sounded self-deprecating when answering, but I was surprised that 40 years on (at the time), instead of just saying “it’s tantalising to imagine me being part of the Beatles, but nah they were perfect they way they were and I’ve my own life”…he actually still brings up how his bass playing could’ve maybe been better for the band at some point.

To be fair, he also says Beatlemania wouldn’t have happened without Paul (his looks, his professionalism) , and that Klaus himself maybe wouldn’t have had the necessary charisma

Morrigan — 05/09/2023 10:53 AM Totally agree with this. It was a wild few months; them also being away from home for the first time as well (and in a very strange environment). So many outsiders have described the bond they had before Hamburg, how Paul seemed to make John come alive etc; they already had a solid foundation. I don’t think anyone could’ve muscled in there permanently

Leggy「little love of mine」 — 05/09/2023 12:29 PM We don't know much about him so its hard not to give him side eye sometimes lol. Ultimately Klaus seems grateful for what the Beatles did for him and how he got to have a place in history thanks to them. I wouldn't necessarily label him negatively since he seems content with his lot and has gotten to make a lot of great art over the years. He likes his niche.

Otoh its still really weird that he's apparently still maintaining a delusion about being a potential Beatle. IMO it once again says more about his relationship with Paul than anything else. Paul is the bedrock of the band and without him, there are no Beatles. Lots of people resent him for this, even other Beatles. I would bet Klaus, like many, is pulled in by John's charisma, values George as a friend, and resents/resented the fact that he couldn't get closer to them because Paul filled that space. "If I was in his place then I could be with George and John all the time and we'd be even better friends. What's so special about Paul's bass playing anyway? I'm just as good." That's the kind of resentment that sticks with you when you have famous friends i guess.

But it also misses the point and the importance of Paul: Paul's bass playing was creative and innovative. He brought new sounds into the band. He also had the energy to get them over their creative humps to deliver material for new records and consistently hit their deadlines. Paul wasn't just "the bassplayer." He was John's everything, the one who delivered results, and the one who made the records work for the Beatles. If Klaus was really as good as he thinks he is then John would have made him a fixture during the solo years. But John didn't do that because Klaus is no match for Paul's ability to consistently deliver results.

I suspect Klaus knows this or he wouldn't admit to Paul's success like that. But its probably very hard to be close to the Beatles because you would naturally want a piece of it.

Leggy「little love of mine」 — 05/09/2023 12:32 PM

So many outsiders have described the bond they had before Hamburg, how Paul seemed to make John come alive etc; they already had a solid foundation. I don’t think anyone could’ve muscled in there permanently

An extremely vital point and probably the ultimate root of the resentment surrounding Paul during that time (or any other time). No matter what they did or where they took him, John still wanted to return to Paul.

There is something special and unique about Paul that had John loving him deeply and to the exclusion of others. Even back then.

mynamesbetty — 05/09/2023 2:00 PM I'd just like to add that re: drugs, Paul was wary of the Prellies and usually stuck to one a night, where John was eating them like candy Paul had already shown reticence towards drugs when he refused to partake of chewing the benzedrine cartridges inside nasal sprays back in Liverpool, so that's another aspect of the "Paul's not as cool and worldly as the rest of us" ganging up on him

Morrigan — 05/09/2023 3:04 PM And then that of course carried over to Paul not wanting to try acid at first

Leggy「little love of mine」 — 05/09/2023 3:04 PM Yeah... so Paul was often on the outside that way too

Morrigan — 05/09/2023 3:07 PM I wonder if John saw that as Paul keeping a part of himself back; of not totally committing so they could share everything together

Leggy「little love of mine」 — 05/09/2023 3:13 PM That's a big part of it. Tune In says John habitually used Prellies to try to get people to talk to him, he used it as a tool to get people to open up. So Paul dragging his heels and only doing it when he felt like it would be infuriating (and enchanting) to John because Paul was refusing to submit to John's direction and control. Paul could skate on the edges of John's gravity well and refused to get closer until he decided to.

It also may be that John was anxious about doing these things without Paul. He wanted Paul to mirror him very early and Paul's refusal to do so fascinated him especially for those moments where Paul did eventually cave and the mirroring turned out fantastic -- it made the victories sweeter. Pete Shotton said John needed a partner in everything he did, even when he was a little kid, so it was a genuine need in him to want someone like Paul.

Leggy「little love of mine」 — 05/09/2023 3:21 PM Makes me wonder how palpable John's attraction to Paul must have been -- even if he didn't fully realize it in Hamburg yet. I fully believe that there is some watershed moment we don't know about for John realizing how deep his attraction to Paul ran.

Morrigan — 05/09/2023 3:33 PM He said he chose Paul as his partner (in music), but we know it was so much more than that. At some point he realised, ‘this is the one’. If only he’d gotten to write his memoirs…. 😢

BRrraCKets! — 05/09/2023 4:00 PM I wonder if his attraction scared him a little and that’s why he backed right off in that first Hamburg trip.

He had plenty to distract him.

When Paul was deported, John was left behind. He could easily have stayed and pursued something there and kept near Stuart, but he didnt. He went back to Liverpool. Brooded on it for a while, then pursued Paul to get back with him.

Leggy「little love of mine」 — 05/09/2023 4:06 PM I never thought of the possibility of him staying behind with Stu but you're right! oh wow

BRrraCKets! — 05/09/2023 4:06 PM I think that’s when he decided Paul was it for him.

He could have looked at picking up his art again, like Stu did, or music in another band. His heart must have decided on music, but music meant Paul.

Leggy「little love of mine」 — 05/09/2023 4:12 PM oh my god!!!! :sobface:

Leggy「little love of mine」 — 05/09/2023 4:13 PM And also the trauma of Paul being deported... Klaus has a drawing of Paul and Pete being shoved into a cop car, I wonder if John was there if it happened like that with Paul and Pete being taken off the street

Like for John that's another loss but instead of Paul abandoning him that's someone taking Paul away from him

And so he goes home later that week.... and he stays shut up in his room for days... and when he emerges he gets George and goes straight to Paul.....

BRrraCKets! — 05/09/2023 4:15 PM He can’t do it without Paul.

Hahaha in a roundabout way, Paul made John choose between him and Stu, and Paul won!

Leggy「little love of mine」 — 05/09/2023 4:17 PM After all that mess, John really did have a shot to choose Stuart and do art forever, hang out in Hamburg and never go back. Stuart evaded deportation by living in Astrid's house, John could do the same. But John played a few nights alone and then took all the gear back by himself

and then he chose Paul while he was convalescing in his bedroom....

Morrigan — 05/09/2023 5:10 PM I do think that was definitely part of it… but I don’t think it would’ve been that easy for him to stay had he wanted to… Stu was different because he’d already started establishing himself there outside of the band (and he had Astrid and her family, who couldn’t be expected to take on John as well).

John had no money. I believe he continued playing with other bands only to fulfil contractual obligations (?). And he said he was depressed after Hamburg, thinking this was maybe as far as music could take them… to seedy bars in a red light district. Coming back to Liverpool, I wonder what his thought process and state of relationship with Paul was like.

Now in 1961, when he again faces a crisis regarding continuing with music, he obviously chooses Paul…even without the music. Even though they were making decent-ish money in Liverpool by then, John was fed up and wanted to run away (at least for a bit).

I know people say he didn’t take Cyn to Paris because she was busy with school and unmarried couples didn’t really travel together, but I think it was more than that. He’d decided it was going to be him and Paul… in any potential endeavour, even if it wasn’t a band. That carries on through to their later ideas of writing a play, a musical together; and just always writing together

That said, I don’t think he actually wanted to stay in Hamburg

Leggy「little love of mine」 — 05/09/2023 5:59 PM Yeah, John stayed in Hamburg for the contractual stuff. Considering its a port town it would have been easy for him to stay IMO but who knows. I think it does indicate that staying with Stuart didn't cross his mind; if it had and if John had really wanted it, he could have found a way. The fact that he didn't and instinctively went home (to the place where Paul had been forced to go) indicates just how strong Paul's hold on him was, despite John not knowing what he was going to do next.

The depression is just John's pattern I think. He had tall highs and deep lows. John coming back from Hamburg reminds me of reading descriptions of his return home from their tours and how inaccessible he was to Cynthia and Julian because of his profound depression. Hamburg was absolutely similar -- women, booze, pep pills to keep them awake and then it ended traumatically leaving John in a very bleak place. The physical low from coming off all those prellies would be crazy and John was addicted. He may have been going through detox which would destabilize his mental scape. The same thing happened with the tours and the amount of drugs they were doing, particularly the coke, which meant that John crashed after each tour because he stopped inhaling all those drugs.

We can only speculate about his thought process post-Hamburg but John repeated patterns, that was his entire thing. I think looking at the Dakota years could tell us a lot, albeit with the caveat that John hadn't done any "splitting" regarding Paul yet. He probably felt bleak, wondering if there was a point in continuing. He knew there was more pain ahead of him if he continued with the Beatles. John knew they were good and probably realized they were better than their peers but maybe he realized that he might have bungled things with Paul. He's watching the wheels.... Then he ran into George on the street iirc and that's when things solidified for him: he needed music and that meant he needed Paul.

So he takes George with him because he needs the support and doesn't want to appear vulnerable in front of someone he probably knows he wasn't kind to. And Paul holds him at arms length for a while but John is persistent and finally tells Paul that he's not going to settle for being half time anymore, Paul needs to commit to him.

When it comes to Paris and such: Paul, for John, represents renewal and possibility. He renewed after Hamburg in 1960 and sought out Paul for it. He renewed in 1961 and they went on their honeymoon in Paris. In 1980, John was preparing to record with Paul and was actively leaving Yoko.

John's mental aesthetic regarding Paul always contained admiration (and sometimes resentment) for Paul's endless energy and his ability to createcreatecreate. That's an energy that John relied on. He used it emotionally as well as musically.

mynamesbetty — 05/09/2023 7:57 PM and on the flip side we have John unfairly blaming Paul for John's inability to write by accusing Paul of bouncing along and writing like a fiend without thinking about how John was feeling, in the "I was going through murder" period

...and then, much later, John hears "Coming Up" on the radio and something long dormant sparks up inside him

VeggieRavioli — 05/09/2023 9:33 PM I'm soo late to this conversation but I love it! I wanna add my favourite Hamburg era tidbit that's hidden away in a footnote in Tune In, because I think it's really interesting to compare the aftermath of the 1960 first Hamburg trip with the 1961 Hamburg trip. TL;DR Paris was not the only time John and Paul ran away holidayed together in 1961

we all know John and Paul went to visit Betty and Mike in Caversham in April 1960, but Paul has stated multiple times that they took two trips to visit his cousin, the second one travelling down to Ryde on the Isle of Wight. But when did they take this trip? It's referenced in MYFN but no timeframe is given.

Mark Lewisohn proposes that the only obvious window is July 1961, directly after they arrived home from Hamburg - they had nine days off before they were back onstage in Liverpool on July 13. You'd think they would have spent this time kicking back at home after three months away, catching up w/ family and friends.......... but if that were the case, Lewisohn says, why didn't they attend Ringo's massive 21st birthday bash on July 8th?? All the biggest bands in Liverpool were invited, but the Beatles were conspicuously absent.

so if Lewisohn's hunch is correct and they swanned off to Ryde right after they just dragged their exhausted asses back from Hamburg, the implications of that are 👀 !!! bc that means Paul's behaviour towards John was sooo markedly different compared to the previous trip. Paul resigned himself to a shitty factory job in 1960, John had to win Paul back and prove himself to him, the band's future was in limbo..... but HERE, to me it's like 1961 Paul is staking his claim. By immediately taking John on a quick holiday to Ryde, he's actively preventing another post-Hamburg comedown and securing them some 1-on-1 time to re-cement their partnership

especially considering that Paul's tension with Stuart was arguably at an all-time high in 1961 -- they had their fight near the end of that trip, Dot and Cynthia came to visit but John & Cyn actually spent more time with Astrid & Stuart than with Paul..... I can just so see Paul being like :paulbuthehasagun: oh you like the beach John? you went to the beach with stuart? Come to this picturesque coastal town with me right the fuck now you're gonna love it

Leggy「little love of mine」 — 05/09/2023 9:46 PM Veggie I love this connection. you're brilliant

mynamesbetty — 05/09/2023 9:47 PM get your man Paul!!

interesting that Paul made the first move here

Leggy「little love of mine」 — 05/09/2023 9:48 PM

so if Lewisohn's hunch is correct and they swanned off to Ryde right after they just dragged their exhausted asses back from Hamburg, the implications of that are 👀 !!! bc that means Paul's behaviour towards John was sooo markedly different compared to the previous trip.

feral for this

YES.... after all that fuss in Hamburg they came back and Paul pushed John up against a wall and said "you're coming with me now" and john just went "o-okay"

Paul resigned himself to a shitty factory job in 1960, John had to win Paul back and prove himself to him, the band's future was in limbo..... but HERE, to me it's like 1961 Paul is staking his claim. By immediately taking John on a quick holiday to Ryde, he's actively preventing another post-Hamburg comedown and securing them some 1-on-1 time to re-cement their partnership

yes!!! he learned from 1960, he didn't give John a chance to get down in the dumps! he said "let's go on an adventure John!" and he just took him reminding John that this isn't like last time. in short Paul broke the pattern

I can just so see Paul being like :paulbuthehasagun: oh you like the beach John? you went to the beach with stuart? Come to this picturesque coastal town with me right the fuck now you're gonna love it

the jealousy angle at work here. oh my god

mynamesbetty — 05/09/2023 9:51 PM as long as they keep moving John can't sink into a funk which may have further implications re: Paul's work ethic

VeggieRavioli — 05/09/2023 9:51 PM aieeee I'm obsessed w/ it

Leggy「little love of mine」 — 05/09/2023 9:51 PM Veggie you're a genius

Leggy「little love of mine」 — 05/09/2023 9:52 PM john's in a depression? let's do something and distract him from it... 1960? on the rocks, worry and frustration. 1961? "dis mine dis MINE"

VeggieRavioli — 05/09/2023 9:54 PM while they seemed to make a lot of progress in Hamburg RE: trading up to better and better clubs, it really stood out to me in Tune In that after their 2nd trip they just returned to the same old in Liverpool, again - same circuit of halls and clubs, no one on their level, no upward momentum until Brian in November. So I love how John and Paul dealt with this by repeatedly skipping out on commitments when they got bored and goin on trips together

Leggy「little love of mine」 — 05/09/2023 9:54 PM yeah! they decided it wasn't worth their time so they bolted

and they were right too lmao

they wanted to be together instead of playing the same circuit over and over...

VeggieRavioli — 05/09/2023 9:56 PM and then Stuart's writing letters like "they quit the band and went to Paris to play together? I don't believe it..."

Paul's like "you'd bETTER BELIEVE IT BUDDY"

Morrigan — 05/09/2023 9:58 PM Wasn’t it said that Ticket to Ride was inspired by Ryde?

VeggieRavioli — 05/09/2023 9:59 PM yes fs, I think Paul restates this in The Lyrics again too? don't have it in front of me, but yes

VeggieRavioli — 05/09/2023 9:58 PM Oh I thought we’d shared that quote here already but no it’s legit

Leggy「little love of mine」 — 05/09/2023 10:00 PM this is the possessive Paul we need

mynamesbetty — 05/09/2023 10:10 PM Paul stomps in like "he's my soulmate, get your own!" and whisks John off on a road trip

Apple_Scruff — 05/09/2023 10:11 PM Stuart literally having his own soulmate Astrid the whole time: confused

Morrigan — 05/09/2023 10:44 PM People have to had seen the special connection between them…John wasn’t going on trips to Ryde or Paris or Caversham with just George

louiselux — 05/10/2023 3:25 AM So fascinating and such great detective work! I wonder too if Paul thought he might be detoxing John, or whether they both had that in mind? Sun, sea, fresh air, no amphetamines etc, just wholesome British beer lol.

louiselux — 05/10/2023 7:06 AM There's just something so innocent about Paul taking him on a seaside holiday, compared to what they had just been doing in Hamburg, it's so sweetly unsophisticated.

I've been to Ryde. The whole of the Isle of Wight, where Ryde is the main town, is just off mainland UK and it feels stuck about 30 years in the past, so Ryde in the early 60s might've felt very old fashioned indeed.

[spencerthespender]

Seeing how my other scotomaphobia post went so well, I feel like I need to highlight one of this game’s most incredible moments, and that is a simple conversation held on a balcony with you and Kindness.

“This city. It’s beautiful, isn’t it? Even without lights or people. And it goes on for miles. I would love to explore it, and try to piece together what everything means.

Do you think they’d have the same things as us? Like barbers, corner stores, and malls? Or would they just have rooms full of weird cocoons that make them live forever or some other weird sci-fi junk.

I… They’re so advanced compared to us. It’s scary. It’s like we’re just ants, being sent down here to die. And we can’t do that, even though we want to.

…

I miss eating… Especially my sister’s homemade apple pie. I swear, she should’ve gone to culinary school instead of becoming a doctor, it was amazing… Trying not to drool now just thinking about it, ha…

…

I still try to eat from time to time, just to relive the sensation. But I almost always just puke it back up. Oh well, I guess that’s the price of… this. I heard it’s painful to starve to death.

…

I wish I had your tenacity, but I think this is where I stop, at least… until I feel ready. Maybe I can find someone else who doesn’t want to kill me. At least not on sight, heh. But keep that radio handy. Maybe we can keep in touch? Though I guess, it might not even work because of the distance…

Still, as a keepsake.”

The dialogue just hits me here. Call this headcanon, but the further he talks, I swear, you can slowly feel him break down quietly on that balcony. If not for the infliction, he’d definitely be crying silently.

And I don’t blame him for crying because when he talks, I think thats when the reality of everything sets into him. Mankind Earth, in its entirety, has fallen. And if that wasn’t enough, he’s been forcefully stripped from his families to go on some… stupid journey. He’s been isolated for so, so long in the dark, and just when he finds a way out of his void-like prison, he finds himself in a place built by aliens. There’s been so much for him to grapple with, and so little time.

It must have been hell with him knowing he’s been robbed of closure from his sister. He will never know what’s happened to her since the expedition, he will never get to speak another word to her, and he’ll never get to have that simple, human part of his life back.

His humanity. He’s been robbed of that too, but not just from his sister. He’s been inflicted with this impossible disease. The body becomes more crystal than human, his speech has been permenantly hindered with that cough of his, and he can’t even eat. He can’t even die. Is he even human anymore? If some stupid cure even was found, would Earth ever be the same? What about the aliens? Would they just go away once everything’s solved?

He is so small in this situation, so unimportant. The entire god damned planet itself is dealing with a crisis, aliens somehow are involved, and among that is a single man. There will not be any major help for him.

Despite being broken and broken and broken several times over, experiencing a myriad of emotions all in the span of a few minutes, he remains standing and somewhat cheerful. I know Kindness compliments our tenacity here, but nobody seems to acknowledge his tenacity here.

In two and a half minutes, we not only get insight on Kindness’ personality and life, but we get to see his current thought process, how he’s handling the situation, see how most people have probably reacted to the infliction, and experience him slowly break down mentally.

I know I’m not in this game’s discord server (assuming it has one), but I really hope people understand just how good this dialogue is. It’s incredible.

[jotatetsuken]

Shyna’s Summer Commissions

When I was planning this, it was supposed to be spring commissions, looks like procrastination has kept me busy af xD /hj /lh

Slots: 1/10 (OPEN, will roll out again once I am done writing, and this will go until 31st August, 2023)

Anyway, so, as much as I don’t want to admit it, here’s what’s happening: I have an educational loan to pay; two in fact, and while my father and I have been paying them diligently, he’s just turned 64... and I want him to not work anymore, and enjoy his retirement, y’know? The problem: my IT job does not pay enough per month and we’re currently on talks on reworking the appraisal (as I received minimal increment this year). So, this is something I want to do to help alleviate financially.

I know I can’t work on a lot with a ton of WIPs that I have, so I will have 10 openings for now so that I don’t overwork myself, and I will keep doing so throughout this summer, which means this will get over by 31st August, 2023. I also have a goal on Ko-Fi incase you want to donate to that as well. In case you can’t pay, but still want to spread the word by reblogging, you are more than welcome to do so <3

Now for the rules:

Only available for those who are 18 and above. (which means if you are a minor, please DNI with this post, please)

Payments will have to be made through Ko-Fi and Paypal only. For those based in India, we can discuss other alternatives (Paytm, PhonePe, etc, else the usual.)

If you’d like a Canon x OC fic, I will need every info about the OC, the background, traits, backstory, abilities, etc. If it’s a reader insert, I will need the same, so that it will help me write better. Picrew/art references are also appreciated. I can also write selfship fics too.

For reader inserts, I will only write female readers, afab readers, and gn!readers (only for sfw commissions).

I am available to talk via Tumblr DM or Discord (the latter, if you are a mutual)

Only two revisions allowed.

The teen characters (Itadori, Megumi, Nobara, Asta, Yuno, Noelle, all the Blue Lock and KNB characters, Josuke, Okuyasu, etc) will be aged up or post timeskip (like Haikyuu).

Details under the cut (Minors DNI with the post):

Pricings: Because I am just starting out, I checked a couple of my mutuals who are commissioning too, and pricing will be based on word count: $1 for 100 words, and I will start out at a minimum of 500 words and a maximum of 2500 words (will increase my limit when I feel more comfortable writing longer fics).

$5 - 500 words, $10 - 1000 words, $15 - 1500 words, $20 - 2000 words, $25 - 2500 words.

Fandoms: Jojo’s Bizarre Adventure (current fixation haha), Haikyuu, Jujutsu Kaisen, Attack on Titan, Black Clover, Blue Lock (only the anime, haven’t read the manga yet), Kuroko no Basket

What can I write?: canon x oc, selfship, canon x f!reader/afab!reader/gn!reader (gn! only for sfw commissions), AUs (please specify the AU because I may not be familiar with everything), nsfw, dubcon, polyamory

What can I not write?: Stroheim (JJBA), Pucci in NSFW scenarios, certain kinks, characters other than the ones that I mentioned I will write

Tagging to spread awareness: @sugardaddyreo @chronic-claire-universe @cyberparadis @romiyaro @strawberrystepmom @bizarrebankai @jctaro @ilyluffy @litepowee @jellyluchi @mapesandoval @magthemage @papersirens @amberswords @uminozerol @thoughtfullyrainynightmare @arcanestage @spookysinner45 @scary-monsters @peachsayshi @theschneckenhouse @aeons-domain @mrsgiovanna @fuwushiguro @aizenhours @i4sgwr @sookisaurus @millionsknive @gojoest @amidalashandmaidens @tsutsumies @jojolovenotes @shaylistic @flowers-n-felines