#WRH is not evil

[lgbtlunaverse]

So I've said multipe times now (here and here) that thinking nmj is just so blinded by privilege he doesn't undertand that acting out of line gets people killed is, in my opinion, a misunderstanding of his character that ignores the part where he's, you know, actively dying the whole time and thinks that's a good thing. But that doesn't mean I don't think privilege plays no role at all in how he views the world.

Specifically, his view that death (at least premature or violent death) means something.

Death isn't always a tragedy to NMJ, but it is always meaningful. If you kill an evil dangerous person for your righteous cause, that death had meaning. There was evil in the world and now there is less of it. Similarly, if you die in the pursuit of your righteous cause, that death has meaning, because the sheer dedication you gave to it that you were willing to die for it will further that cause, and your bretheren will be invigorated by your sacrifice to fight even harder.

If a death isn't meaningful, that's an injustice and it is up to the living to give it meaning. That's what cuts so deep about his father's murder. There were no consequences, no changes, no meaning. Wen Ruohan was just going to get away with it! He fights and wins an entire war to make it mean something, to make it so that the unjust murder of Nie Mingjue's father is part of Wen Ruohan's downfall.

But this is a view he can only hold because he's the kind of person who's death will be meaningful. Most ordinary people's deaths are meaningless. Not ontologically, not inherently, but they are made meaningless because no one cares. For death to be meaningful you either have to be so powerful that anything you risk your life for will be impacted in some way. (Like, say, if you sacrifice a long life for immense martial power in a faustian bargain with a blade) Or if people with that kind of power care enough about you to do so for you. For most people, this isn't true. A starving street kid has no power to change the unfair world that put them there, even if they risk their life trying, and no one will do it for them once they die.

Nie Mingjue knows this in abstract, and of course rightfully believes it's wrong. But all that does is make it yet another righteous cause people should be willing to die for. Everyone's deaths should mean something, we'll make it so or die trying!

This is what the conflict between nieyao is about at its core. Because Jin Guangyao, fundamentally, cannot conceive of his own death as meaningful. Nie Mingjue grew up around powerful men who could change the world but refuse to do so because god forbid they risk a single hair on their perfect heads. Meng Yao, on the other hand, grew up in an environment where no one of importance would blink twice if you died. He was surrounded by meaningless death. Indeed his entire early life is defined by that lack of care.

Meng Shi dies and no one cares. Meng Yao gets thrown off a flight off stairs and no one cares. He has to be the one to do the caring, and once he's gone no one else will do it for him.

So he has to live.

Jin Guangyao eventually gets far enough that he actually does aquire the power to change some things... as long as he's alive. If he changes too much, holds on too tightly to his ideals, he'll die and it'll all be for nothing. He can't sacrifice himself for his goals because doing so would immediately render those goals unobtainable. No one will care about what he tried to do. He won't be a heroic sacrifice, he'll just be trash that finally cleaned itself up.

And well... Nie Mingjue dies, and someone makes it mean something. Makes it mean so much that the entire story of mdzs would not exist without it. Jin Guangyao dies and it doesn't mean anything. Most people are glad to be rid of him, and the few that are not don't do anything to change that.

[thatswhatsushesaid]

haha

it is SO rich for the jgy critical crowd to insist that it's the jgy stans who are being weird and defensive given /gestures @ all of this. like what's the opposite of defensive 🧐 because that's what this is.

as i said to someone else earlier tonight, i'm manifesting the capability to climb through these anons' phone screens so i can chase them through their houses with a nerf gun. every little foam projectile will include a relevant printed out page from the EXR translation. probably with highlights and notes in the margins. maybe some frowny faces for emphasis.

anyway this is why i'm insane

[eleanorfenyxwrites]

I've been rereading Nirejseki's incredible Lan Qiren/Wen Ruohan fics over the weekend (specifically Spilled Pearls and The Other Mountain, both of which are ✨chef's kiss✨)and I just reread my own Tales from Jianghu Shopping Center, which means I am now having THOUGHTS about TFJSC LQR and WRH being secret long-term partners and literally NO ONE knows because they're both totally uninterested in causing a fuss about this, but WRH's response to hearing LQR idly musing one day about the lack of foot traffic through the shop lately was to try to buy it himself to make sure it definitely doesn't go anywhere. And when LQR gets wind of it via WQ he goes to WRH like "you realize you can just not do that, right? You realize the shop is doing fine and I'm not going anywhere, right?"

[trans-yllz]

sorry but it Is so funny to me that everyone is like We Never Expected The Wen Sect To Be So Brazen when they are literally the most comically, outrageously evil group of people I've ever seen

[mostlikelytofangirl]

Wouldn't ot be funny if WWX ended up indirectly helping WRH because he refuses to attack the Wen until the DafanWen are properly sorted from the rest? And very fucking sad if WRH ends up caring for him a little bit

Welp talk about a mix of emotions!

I mean, WRH would know perfectly well that WWX is not hanging around the place bc he enjoys the company, but bc he is trying to work out a way to only save the Wens that deserve saving in his eyes, but since it's a bit (a lot) of a complicated mission, that means dealing with the boy for a while, especially as WWX doesn't let anyone else do it, at least no one he even remotely suspects that only wants to whip out all Wens. JGY keeps an eye on the guy, but doesn't seem overly concerned with him, so at some point awkward exchange of words has to happen.

WWX being first all "I'm not talking to the man who destroyed my home and the ppl I held dear!" to "soooo demonic cultivation huh, how crazy is it??"

Dunno how that pipeline would go exactly, but I can see them kindasorta bonding over the evil mojo bc really (cql canon aside), I can absolutely see WRH interested in that without him able to access it bc no cultivation, so WWX would feel confident and safe to discuss it without risking this dangerous man getting a hold of it.

Besides, I just think it'd be nice to have actual non-judgmental conversations about his new way of cultivation with someone who knows a shitton and can even help WWX control it a bit better.

And well, WRH has proven to appreciate anyone who is capable and smart regardless of morality or social standing.

[wangxianficfinder]

In the mood for...

Nov 6th

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1. Hello! Thank you everyone and the admins for doing the great work 🥰

A - Itmf for fics where Wei Wuxian (or someone else) develops a talisman/curse or somehing that shows people's bio relations (maybe to prove he is not a Jiang/to prove the Jins evil/any other reason), and the use of such thing causes secrets and misdeeds of others to turn up. Any kind of chaotic or angsty energy and everyone in shock and trying to manage the damage of their secrets aired out for the audience.

I have no preference over whether Wei Ying turns out to a Wen/actually Jiang/anything else, but it would be great if he finds out he is not all alone in the world in means of blood and is accepted into someone's loving arms. The Lan family angst is cool, but please no Lan Xichen or Lan Zhan's bashing (But everyone else can have a field day)

B - As an alternative, just a modern AU with Wei Ying doing some kind of DNA testing to prove his relations and the concequences/reactions of others is also acceptable.

P.S. I have recently read All Things Belong by kuroi_atropos, amazing work, so i wanted to read something else in this field. Definitely recommend! @shellennium

1A)

❤️ And Time Is But a Paper Moon by sami (M, 138k, WangXian, XiChengQing, Time Travel, Fix-It, Everyone Lives/Nobody Dies, Healing, Mental Health Issues, PTSD, Hurt/Comfort, Depression, BAMF WWX, BAMF JC, BAMF LWJ, BAMF JYL, Getting Together) it occurs in chapter 12. my suggestion for 1a fills the first half of the request, WWX doesn't discover any relatives though

Debts of a Child Part 2 by Hauntcats (M, 111k, WangXian, YZY Bashing, Not Jiang Family Friendly, Angst and Feels, lots of anger, JC Bashing, not Jiang friendly, Angst with a Happy Ending, Content warning for icky spiders in later chapters., hurt no comfort for Jiang siblings.)

Cuckold by ramber (M, <1k, Madam Jin/OMC)

Sunset, Sunrise by Ariana Deralte (ArianaDeralte) (T, 57k, WWX & WRH, WangXian, WIP, Time Travel Fix-It, Crack, Temporary Character Death, sorry I killed a-Yuan for a few paragraphs before the time travel, WWX is a Wen, Genius WWX, WRH gets to rewatch the series as a treat, Implied/Referenced Child Abuse, in this house we acknowledge that all the sects have flaws, Implied/Referenced Sexual Assault, WWX Has ADHD, Bad Parents JFM & YZY, Implied/Referenced Suicide, Autistic LWJ) (link in 8C)

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2. hello! thank you for all the work you do. itmf: wangxian not returning to cloud recesses post-canon and them having a strained relationship with the lans that wwx IS NOT guilty about. no CQL please. bonus if sizhui leaves with them but not required

tails and scales series by notsofluffyunicorn (E, 37k, WangXian, Fluff and Angst, Dragon LWJ, Fox WWX, LWJ Has Feelings, LWJ Needs a Hug, LWJ Leaves the Gusu Lan Sect, Hair Brushing, tail brushing, No World Building, Emotional Hurt/Comfort, Autistic LWJ, Selectively Mute LWJ, because of anxiety, Healthy Communication, Soft WangXian, Married WangXian, Smut, A/B/O, Mating Cycles/In Heat, Alpha LWJ, Omega WWX,Anal Sex, Anal Fingering, Blow Jobs, tail pulling, Rough Sex, LWJ Has a Biting Kink, LWJ & WWX Have a Breeding Kink, Dirty Talk, Non-Traditional A/B/O Dynamics, Domestic Fluff, Mpreg, Pregnant WWX, Chronic Pain, Protective LWJ, Protective WWX, Canon Divergence, Gusu Lan Sect Bashing, slight LXC bashing, But that will get better in future stories, non-graphic birth, Introspection, Rimming, POV LWJ, POV WWX, No Golden Core Transfer, No Wen remnants, WangXian Are LSZ's Parents, WangXian Get a Happy Ending, LWJ's 33 Lashes Punishment, No Thirteen Years of WWX's Death, WWX in WWX's Body, Parents WangXian, Shedding season) but it's an au so it doesn't exactly fit. They leave though and live their best lives

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3. itmf fics where some combination of lwj-wwx-jc one killing the other, accidentally or otherwise.

ok if it includes mxy resurrecting wwx, or wwx raising lwj-jc as a corpse à la wen ning, but I’m not looking for this as a jumping off point for time travel or that kind of fix it. not bashing, I just want them to feel their feelings. bonus if jyl is alive in especially in a jc-wwx scenario.

💖 Regrets by antebunny (G, 37k, WangXian, Canon Divergence, Miscommunication, Misunderstandings, Time Travel, Fix-It, Temporary Character Death, Angst, Explicit Descriptions of Love, and other squishy feelings, Angst with a Happy Ending) it's cql canon and uh LWJ accidentally stabs WWX in nightless city

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4. Hi! I have an ITMF! Fics where WWX is treated poorly or cruelly in the Cloud Recesses after marrying LWJ, can be with him knowing or not (or even participating), post canon or not, and him (and maybe LSZ) being rescued by one of the Jiangs or Jin Ling (or even someone else). I don't mind AUs as long as it's not modern setting ones! Bonus points if it has Jiang Yanli in it :) Thanks!! @jiangclaritybell

Concord by Deastar (T, 41k, WangXian, Arranged Marriage, Gusu Lan Sect Rules, Depression, Canon Divergence, Angst with a Happy Ending) it covers some of what you seek. Be prepared it's very angsty.

To Bring You Back Within My Reach by ablaiseofglory (M, 22k, WIP, WangXian, Arranged Marriage, Angst with a Happy Ending, No dubious consent, Adopted Children, Kid Fic, A/B/O Dynamics, omega wwx, Alpha LWJ, Misunderstandings) to bring you back within my reach by ablaiseofglory. It's a WIP but it recently updated

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5. in the mood for a fic where wangxian are VERY freak4freak or codependent… equally unhealthily obsessed w each other <3 @xinilia

truly a love story for the ages by sweetlolixo (E, 4k, WangXian, Modern AU, Omegaverse, Dark LWJ, Dark WWX, Alpha LWJ, Omega WWX, Dark!Wangxian, Power Couple, slight daddy kink, Crack, Pregnant WWX) but I'm not sure if the vibe truly fits, they are freak4freak

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6. Hiii... for the next itmf post, please recommend some lengthy time travel fics. Please can it be newer fics (2023 / 2024) and fully completed fics. Wangxian pairing, of course. Thank you 😊 🙏

there are multiple in the Same Moon Shines series by sami

Lynchpin by ShanaStoryteller (Not Rated, 103k, WangXian, JC & WWX, Time Travel, Fix-It)

🔒 Here With Me by iamwish (T, 58k, WangXian, Time Travel Fix-It, wwx turns this into a no war!au, Canon-Typical Violence, Period-Typical Homophobia, Bad Parent YZY, POV WWX, POV LWJ, POV JC, Somebody Lives/Not Everyone Dies, WWX Has PTSD, and also depression sometimes, Unreliable Narrator, (all of them))

A Life Without Regrets by naqaashi (M, 163k, WangXian, JFM & WWX, JC & WWX, WRH & WWX, LXC & LWJ, LQR & LWJ, LWJ & NHS, Canon Divergence, Time Travel Fix-It, Angst and Humor, Angst with a Happy Ending, Fluff, Hurt/Comfort, Crack Treated Seriously, musical cultivation, Slow Burn, Pining, Rogue Cultivator WWX, Murder Husbands, PTSD, BAMF WWX, Demonic Cultivation, POV WWX, Cultivation Sect Politics, Worldbuilding, No Yīn Iron, Genius WWX, Inventor WWX, Artist WWX, Musician WWX, Night Hunts, Fate & Destiny, Bad Parent JFM & YZY, Golden Core, Cultivation Theory, Sentient Burial Mounds, Father-Son Relationship, Dysfunctional Family, Grief/Mourning, Parent-Child Relationship, Angry WWX, Pining WWX, WWX is Not Okay, No Golden Core Transfer, BAMF LWJ, Pining LWJ, POV LWJ, Angry LWJ, One-Braincell Wangxian, Love Confessions, Idiots in Love)

We’ll Build A Dynasty (one the heavens can’t shake) by One_eyed_God (T, 66k, WangXian, WWX & WQ, WWX & WN, WWX & JYL, canon typical Jiang family dynamics, BAMF WWX, Canon JC Characteristics, POV Outsider, Hurt/Comfort, Pre-Relationship, WWX is a Wen, Sect Leader WWX, Genius WWX, The Casual Intimacy of Hand-Holding, A Love Letter to WWX, Not JC Friendly, Time Travel Fix-It)

🔒Til Death Do Us Part by Thyone14 (Not Rated, 73k, WangXian, Time Travel, Fix-It of Sorts, Fluff and Angst, Angst with a Happy Ending, Implied/Referenced Character Death, WWX Needs a Hug, Protective LWJ, Soft WangXian, POV LWJ, POV Alternating, No Smut, POV WWX)

The Stranger Inside My Son by Mademoiselle_A (T, 73k, WangXian, Time Travel Fix-It, But from an outsider's POV, JC is So Done, JFM's A+ parenting, YZY's A+ Parenting, Both are not great but this is not a bashing fic, JC-centric, But from JFM's POV lol, POV Outsider) is focused on Jiang Cheng but Wangxian do get together in it.

🔒if you can’t beat them, recruit them by moeblobmegane (T, 228k, Wangxian, NHS & WWX, WWX & WQ, Time Travel Fix-It, Conspiracy, Spies & Secret Agents, Team as Family, Found Family, Burial Mounds, Temporary Character Death, Canon-Typical Violence, Pining, Morally Ambiguous Character, Rumors, Politics, Developing Friendships, Good Uncle LQR, Demonic Cultivation, YilingWei Sect)

💖 The Echoes of that News Ring Loud by Scarlet_Gryphon (T, 111k, NHS & NMJ, 3zun, sangning, wangxian, time travel, fix-it, nie wwx, happy ending)

Moments of Revelation by meyari (T, 133k, ChengSang, WangXian, XiYao, POV JC, Canon Divergence, Temporary Character Death, Character Death, not anyone we care about, Time Travel Fix-It, Self-Sacrifice, Torture, Chronic Pain, Chronic anxiety, Grief/Mourning, PTSD, Chronic Mental Health Issues, Assassination, renamed MY, Families of Choice, Unreliable Narrator(s), Demonic Possession) Plus others by the same author

A Narrow Bridge by FrameofMind, Jo Lasalle (Jo_Lasalle) (E, 700k, WangXian, Time Travel Fix-It, Canon Divergence, Slow Burn, Getting Together, First Time, Pining while fucking, Burial Mounds Settlement Days, Angst with a Happy Ending, CQL Verse, almost everybody lives/almost nobody dies, epistolary-ish, canon-ish side pairings, radishes) is my fav time travel long fic but it was late 2022 so it doesn't exactly match the newer fics (2023 / 2024) qualification.

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7. ITMF fics where wwx gets a different title? Like in “dispersing clouds” or “flowers blooming” he has a different title than YL - if there’s smut, no b!lwj, and ideally nothing cql compliant (but donghua/novel/audio drama/manhua/etc is fine) @lovelyiknow

Just go forward like you mean it by tawaen (M, 101k, WangXian, WWX & WN &WQ, WWX & JYL, NHS & WWX, Canon Divergence, WWx does not attend the Wen indoctrination, WWX saves Lotus Pier, Inventor WWX, No Golden Core Transfer, Sect Leader JYL, JC Has No Golden Core, Bad Parents JFM & YZY, Not JC Friendly, but he gets a happier ending than canon so don’t look here for bashing)

🧡 All will be well when the day is done by abCEE (T, 76k, WangXIan, Canon Divergence, Fix It, Not Jiang Family Friendly, JFM & YZY Bashing, Fix it for our main characters, Time Travel, Butterfly Effect, Madam Lan Lives, No Sunshot Campaign, Artistic License, Unreliable Narrator, JC Bashing, non-yunmeng WWX, Accidental Baby Acquisition, Good Uncle LQR, OOC, WangXian Get a Happy Ending, WWX gets the love and care that he deserves from the very beginning, WWX Isn’t Adopted by the Jiangs, verbal and physical (c/o Zidian) abuse from YZY) link in #8B

🔒💖 Resilience. by Vrishchika (T, 7k, WangXian, Time Travel, Golden Core Transfer Fix-It, Not JC Friendly, Self-Indulgent)

A Life Without Regrets by naqaashi (M, 163k, WangXian, JFM & WWX, JC & WWX, WRH & WWX, LXC & LWJ, LQR & LWJ, LWJ & NHS, Canon Divergence, Time Travel Fix-It, Angst and Humor, Angst with a Happy Ending, Fluff, Hurt/Comfort, Crack Treated Seriously, musical cultivation, Slow Burn, Pining, Rogue Cultivator WWX, Murder Husbands, PTSD, BAMF WWX, Demonic Cultivation, POV WWX, Cultivation Sect Politics, Worldbuilding, No Yīn Iron, Genius WWX, Inventor WWX, Artist WWX, Musician WWX, Night Hunts, Fate & Destiny, Bad Parent JFM & YZY, Golden Core, Cultivation Theory, Sentient Burial Mounds, Father-Son Relationship, Dysfunctional Family, Grief/Mourning, Parent-Child Relationship, Angry WWX, Pining WWX, WWX is Not Okay, No Golden Core Transfer, BAMF LWJ, Pining LWJ, POV LWJ, Angry LWJ, One-Braincell Wangxian, Love Confessions, Idiots in Love) link in #6

💙🔒 Away from Trouble by Ilona22 (M, 15k, WangXian, Not JC Friendly, LWJ/WWX Get a Happy Ending)

Lay my body down by tawaen (M, 48k, WWX & WQ, WWX & WN, wangxian, WWX & JYL, Canon Divergence, Time Travel, Rogue Cultivator WWX, Eventual WangXian, No Golden Core Transfer, Not Cultivation World Friendly, Canon-Typical Violence, Not JC Friendly, What if WWX saw the first siege of the burial mounds and said Nope to the war, OCs, OC point-of-view for one chapter for plot reasons)

Take Responsibility by draechaeli (E, 187k, WangXian, Canon Divergence, Mainly Novel with a few CQL and Donghua bits, Everybody Lives, Original Children Characters, Adoption, Adoption but WWX birthed them all, Mpreg, Teen Pregnancy, Pregnancy Kink, Male Lactation, Lactation Kink, Consensual Non-Consent, Light Bondage, Pregnant Sex, easy to skip nsfw chapters, Fix-It, Happy Ending)

🧡 the river brought you here by chilianxianzi (Not Rated, 11k, WangXian, Canon Divergence, POV Outsider, Amnesia, Past abuse, Strangulation, Found Family)

Trials of Time by Muggle_Diary (E, 32k, wangxian, major character death, underage, time travel, not jiang friendly, not YZY friendly, not JC friendly, butterfly effect)

To Sizhui by countingcr0ws (E, 21k, WangXian, Librarian LWJ, Mistaken Identity, Requited Love, Mental Link, Soul Bond, Genius WWX, Romance, Fluff, Banter, Epistolary, Love Poems, Footnotes, Smut, Laughter During Sex, Cultivation Sect Politics, Canon Divergence, Love Letters)

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8. I'm looking for fics where A) YZY does sever WWX hand and things still go bad for YMJ (no cql characterization please, I don't like JC, so novel canon please) , B) Madam Lan lives (her best life and if the Wei couple is alive too - amazing), C) the two Nie Furen - any fics that talk or have any of them live, D) WWX (and maybe LWJ) raises a daughter or interacts with his grandchildren. Thank you! @secretartquotes

8A)

💖 Love made visible by Moominmammashandbag (M, JYL/ZZL, wangxian, hurt/Comfort, amputation, major character injury, sibling love, angst w happy ending, cooking as cultivation, attempted rape/non-con, sexual assault, minor character death, family angst, dysfunctional family, protective siblings, near drowning, amnesia)

8B)

in stillness, clear water to the bottom by Stratisphyre (T, 40k, CSSR/WCZ/LQR, LQR & Madam Lan, CSSR & LQR, LQR & WWX, Sect Leader Nie/NHS's Mother/NMJ's Mother, Canon Divergence, Time Travel Fix-It, Mourning, Hurt/Comfort, Canon-Typical Violence, Threesome - M/M/F, Getting Together, Friends to Lovers, Everyone lives, (mostly), (not you qingheng-jun), Family feelings, Madam Lan lives, references to past rape)

The Dreams of Youth by sami (E, 86k, wangxian, time travel, fix-it, family, not lan sect friendly, canon typical violence & gore, childhood friends to lovers, hurt/comfort, mothers who live, some people live/not everyone dies)

Sail Away Sweet Sister by sami (M, 73k, WangXian, YZY/CSSR/MDM Lan, MingLi, Time Travel, EXTREME Canon Divergence, Wide Focus Narrative, Some People Live/Not Everyone Dies, Most Named/Canon Characters Live, Childhood Friends to Lovers, Families of Choice, Parenthood, this work contains a major tonal shift, Fluff, Angst, Underage Sex, not particularly explicit, but not at all ambiguous, PTSD, Only a tiny bit, Unforeseeable consequences, The butterfly effect, Slightly Dark JYL, Asexual Characters, but that’s not really the focus, Canon-Typical Violence)

🧡 All will be well when the day is done by abCEE (T, 76k, WangXIan, Canon Divergence, Fix It, Not Jiang Family Friendly, JFM & YZY Bashing, Fix it for our main characters, Time Travel, Butterfly Effect, Madam Lan Lives, No Sunshot Campaign, Artistic License, Unreliable Narrator, JC Bashing, non-yunmeng WWX, Accidental Baby Acquisition, Good Uncle LQR, OOC, WangXian Get a Happy Ending, WWX gets the love and care that he deserves from the very beginning, WWX Isn’t Adopted by the Jiangs, verbal and physical (c/o Zidian) abuse from YZY)

💖 An Unexpected Visitor by Hauntcats (G, 8k, QHJ/Madam Lan, wangxian, fix-it of sorts, not Jiang friendly, not jin friendly, happy ending)

Every Mother’s Son by Chrononautical (T, 11k, WangXian, Madam Lán Lives, Madam Lán Deserves Better, Madam Lán Leaves Cloud Recesses, Madam Lan rescues women from abusive husbands in feudal Japan and honestly that’s so valid of her, mentions of rape/non-con between Madam Lan & Qingheng-Jun)

no step had trodden black by Stratisphyre (T, 32k, wangxian, LQR & WWX, JYL/JZX, canon divergence, madam lan lives, past rape, golden core reveal, hurt/Comfort, referenced to attempted suicide & suicidal thoughts, canon-typical violence)

8C)

Sunset, Sunrise by Ariana Deralte (ArianaDeralte) (T, 57k, WWX & WRH, WangXian, WIP, Time Travel Fix-It, Crack, Temporary Character Death, sorry I killed a-Yuan for a few paragraphs before the time travel, WWX is a Wen, Genius WWX, WRH gets to rewatch the series as a treat, Implied/Referenced Child Abuse, in this house we acknowledge that all the sects have flaws, Implied/Referenced Sexual Assault, WWX Has ADHD, Bad Parents JFM & YZY, Implied/Referenced Suicide, Autistic LWJ)

in stillness, clear water to the bottom by Stratisphyre (T, 40k, CSSR/WCZ/LQR, LQR & Madam Lan, CSSR & LQR, LQR & WWX, Sect Leader Nie/NHS's Mother/NMJ's Mother, Canon Divergence, Time Travel Fix-It, Mourning, Hurt/Comfort, Canon-Typical Violence, Threesome - M/M/F, Getting Together, Friends to Lovers, Everyone lives, (mostly), (not you qingheng-jun), Family feelings, Madam Lan lives, references to past rape) link in #8B

8D)

Attempting the Impossible by Ariaste (T, 36k, WangXian, JC & WWX, Post-Canon, Yunmeng Bros Reconciliation, Adoption, Family Fluff, Kid fic, Family drama, Fluff, 🔒[PODFIC] Attempting the Impossible by Ariaste by lunatique)

🔒 Little Stars by Aki_no_hikari (G, 4k, WangXian, Family Fluff, Domestic Fluff, Canon Divergence, Yílíng Wèi Sect)

The Trouble With Politics: a Treatise on Jiang Sect Deputies Gone Rogue by Sect Leader Wei Wuxian by stiltonbasket (G, 56k, WangXian, Canon Divergence, Yílíng Wèi Sect, or: the one where yu   zhenhong is a wild card, Smitten LWJ, Domestic Fluff, Politics, Happy Ending, Sect Leader WWX, Fix-It of Sorts, JZX still dies though)

Where the Lonely Ones Go by CSHfic & VSfic (T, 24k, WangXian, Accidental Baby Acquisition, Case Fic, Night Hunts Fluff, Established Relationship, Mystery, Married Life, Domestic Fluff, Haunting, Kid Fic, Post-Canon, gratuitous use of empathy)

❤️ Seen and not heard by eatmyass (E, 51k, wangxian, case fic, no sunshot, kid fic, dadxian, strangers to lovers, found family, LWJ pov, pining, fake/pretend relationship, first time, falling in love) Wei Wuxian hasn't yet adopted the children in Seen and not heard but this fic shows him protecting and teaching children.

in a river you wade by bleuett (M, 20k, WangXian, Canon Divergence, Mpreg, Postpartum Depression, Grief/Mourning, Hurt/Comfort, Good Uncle LQR, Family Feels, Happy Ending, Kid Fic) In "in a river you wade," Lan Wangji gets pregnant with Wei Wuxian's child so we see Lan Wangji raising their daughter after Wei Wuxian's death.

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9. Itmf / fic finder, idk which one to categorise it as hah-

So do we have any Hogwarts au of mdzs where wwx is ofcourse Harry, lqr is snape, Wei - sanren couple are james n lily, someone is voldy, lwj is maybe in Slytherin???? I want this fic or fics like this please! @constellationdks

How to save your school with your Best Friend by Lan_tiger (T, 30k, WangXian, XiYao, Harry Potter Setting, Modified Chamber of Secrets plot, Everyone Is Alive, Including canonically dead parents, Everyone has parents, Chinese magical school, Mostly comedy with some mystery, gryffindor! wwx, ravenclaw! lwj)

Grandmaster of the Magical Arts Series by HollowNightmare (T, 420k, WangXian, Harry Potter Setting, Chinese Hogwarts?, Slice of Life, Developing Friendships, POV Alternating, lwj is an anxious bean, Light Angst, Hurt/Comfort, Angst) although Wei Wuxian is a Slytherin in this one.

~*~

10. itmf fics where the golden core reveal happens in front of everyone?

doesn’t necessarily have to be everyone but at least a group of people? thank you for your help!

A Child’s Wish by Hauntcats (Not rated, 13k, wangxian, WWX & Wen remnants, Celestial meddling, Not JC Friendly, Fix-It, Canon Divergence, Angst with a Happy Ending, Everyone gets what they deserve, Age Regression/De-Aging, Child LWJ)

Field Trips with Wei Wuxian by antebunny (G, 42k, WangXian, WQ & WWX, NMJ & WWX, JZX & WWX, Canon Divergence, Fix-It, Found Family, Angst with a Happy Ending, Misunderstandings, Miscommunication, protective Jiang siblings, Unreliable Narrator, due to WWX assuming ppl hate him, JYL is gonna dropkick her baby bro into having friends)

just because it’s what i am by kokozy (G, 4k, wangxian, Thirteen Years of WWX’s Death, Ghost WWX, Song: Inquiry, Truth comes to light, Revelations, Golden Core Reveal, Canon Divergence, Canonical Character Death, Angst, Sad with a Happy Ending)

seldom all they seem by Fahye (E, 25k, WangXian, Canon Divergence, Arranged Marriage, or rather Arranged Betrothal, followed by Weapons-Grade Thirst)

The most dangerous thing is to love by KatAnni (E, 113k, WangXian, Golden Core Reveal, Fix-It, Everybody Lives, Angst with a Happy Ending, Hurt/Comfort, Canon Divergence, Hurt!WWX, Found Family, Implied/Referenced Torture, POV Multiple, Implied/Referenced Cannibalism, Panic Attacks, PTSD, Golden Core Transfer, Golden Core Transfer Fix-it, Medical Procedures, Fainting, Major Character Injury, Blood and Injury, WWX Has a New Golden Core, Asexual JC, homophobia doesn’t exist here, Marriage Proposal, Marriage, Wedding Night, Whump)

~*~

11. For itmf- there has to be a wangxian wicked au right? It’s impossible that there isn’t

Grandmaster of Wicked Cultivation by ellienchanted, evilhobbitqueen, nx_for_short, planta_genista, westiec, zylaa (G, 6k, WangXian, Filk, musical theatre, wicked the musical, with apologies to Schwartz and Holzman, Sing along!, Canonical Character Death, Canon Temporary Character Death, Art, Podfic Available, Recording Available for Some Songs!)

No Good For The Wicked by drawifubmen (Not Rated, 2k, WIP, WangXian, Inspired by Wicked, Kinda, inspired by mdzs defying gravity animatic, wwx is a witch, they were roommates, Unreliable Narrator, POV Third Person Omniscient, Wizard of Oz References, Wizard of Oz Fusion, References to Wicked - Schwartz/Holzman, Enemies to Friends to Lovers, Star-crossed, Canonical Character Death, Canon Divergence) which is a WIP that recently began.

~*~

12. I've got an ITMF request, if you lovely people would be so kind. I've been reading and enjoying "all the lies on your resume" by someitems, and I was wondering if anyone has suggestions for other modern AUs where the golden core transfer is shown as chronic illness. It could be an actual golden core transfer (or partial transfer or golden core loss or whatever) in a modern with cultivation AU or an analogy for Golden Core transfer in a modern AU without magic, whatever. The important thing is that the loss of his golden core or equivalent leaves WWX with chronic illness of some kind (chronic fatigue, or chronic headaches, or needing to be careful about doing normal things so he doesn't get sick, or anything chronic illness can do). No Jiang Cheng or Jiang Yanli bashing please! Thank you mods and fic finder community! @flamingwell

silt, or scurvy series by astronicht (M, 11k, wangxian, modern w/ magic, chronic illness, Podfic: The Silt or Scurvy Series by raitala) the "silt, or scurvy" series by astronicht shows a couple of small moments in a modern wwx's life as he struggles post loss of core

~*~

13. Hello, itmf

I wonder if anyone wrote the scene where lan zhan says aloud to lan xichen or lan qiren that he is ashamed of them.

Thank you!

~*~

14. Hello again! I've been just wondering if anyone knows a fic where Wei Ying cultivates a womb? As apparently MXTX tweeted that it was possible for him? @lostandmessedup

Impermanence, Transience, Permanence by Best Bepsy (BepsyGray) (E, 39k, wangxian, canon divergence, unplanned pregnancy, mpreg, gore, sunshot campaign, assumed miscarriage, medical procedures, childbirth, golden core reveal) Wei Ying develops a spiritual womb through dual cultivation

~*~

15. itmf wangxian fics where wwx is not forced to reconcile with jc/ where jc is his book canon self @chellsky

Preparing the Soil by Rynne (T, 26k, WangXian, LQR & LWJ, Post-Canon, Established Relationship, Family Issues, Family Conflict, Uncle-Nephew Relationship, Chinese Holidays, Chinese New Year, Birthdays, Good Kid LSZ, Meta Arguments, POV LWJ, Protective LWJ, Married WangXian, LWJ’s Birthday, LSZ’s Birthday, Soft WangXian, LWJ Has to Talk a Lot, Gusu Lan Sect Rules, Gusu Lan Sect, Letting Go of Resentment, The WWX Rule, Good Sibling LXC, Improving Uncle LQR, Grappling with the Lans’ Part in the Siege, learning to be better, Music, LWJ is a Composer, LWJ Is Good at Communicating Actually, Not JC Friendly)

These Barren Lands In Between by lingering_song (T, 4k, WangXian, JC & WWX, Post-Canon, Married WangXian, POV Outsider, Misunderstandings, Cultivation Sect Politics, Implied/Referenced Abuse, Not JC Friendly, No JC & WWX Reconciliation)

🔒 all i take with me by justdoityoufucker (orphan_account) (T, 2k, JL & WWX, Post-Canon, Canon-Typical Violence, Not JC Friendly, Canon JC Characteristics, Families of Choice, Night Hunts, Unhealthy Relationships, Implied/Referenced Child Abuse, Healing, no reconciliation, Non-Linear Narrative)

keeping score by hauntedotamatone (T, 6k, LSZ & WWX, Background WangXian, the opposite of reconciliation, Protective WWX, Duelling, Grief/Mourning, not for jc fans, Swordfighting, Resentment, LSZ centric, No JC & WWX Reconciliation)

also some of the chapters from Short Prompts by Vrishchika

peacemaker no more by thelastdboy (G, 6k, JYL & WWX, JC & JYL, JC & JYL & JFM & WWX & YZY, JC & WWX & JYL, JYL & Wen Remnants, JYL & WQ, WangXian, JYL & JZX, Modern, Jiang Family Dynamics, unspecified chronic illness, POV JYL, The Eldest Daughter Experience™, Homophobia, to be specific, JC's Canon Homophobia, Not JC Friendly, Wen Remnants Live, chosen family, No JC & WWX Reconciliation, Mental Health Issues, References to Depression)

~*~

16. hi im looking for fanfics in which wwx attends jl’s birthday ceremony (lmao i forgot how it was called but i hope everybody knows what i mean by it) with a-yuan. thanks!!

The Core Issue by Hauntcats (T, 21k, WangXian, Angst with a Happy Ending, Not JC Friendly, Canon Divergence)

💖 A Crying Shame by thunderwear (G, 16k, WangXian, Canon Divergence, Fix-It, A-yuan to the rescue, Getting Together, Mutual Pining, Sharing a Bed, Domestic Fluff, Love Confessions, First Kiss, LWJ joins WWX at burial mounds, LWJ is soft pass it on, literally all fluff, Marriage Proposal, Oblivious WWX)

Taking Responsibility by deliciousblizzardshark (T, 6k, WangXian, Canon Divergence, Fix-It, Getting Together, Trope Subversion/Inversion, Pretend mpreg, Accidental Baby Acquisition, Fluff and Crack) I don't think it's overtly stated that the beginning of Taking Responsibility takes place during Jin Ling's celebration but it seems like it.

~*~

17. I’m in the mood for any fics with Lan Wangji and Jiang Yanli having a strong friendship or bond. Thank you!

picking up the pieces by KouriArashi (M, 111k, JYL & LWJ, WangXian, Canon Divergence, Alternate Canon, Grief/Mourning, Angst, Regret, Family, Kid Fic, Families of Choice, Emotional Hurt/Comfort, Politics, Emotional/Psychological Abuse, Canon-Typical Violence, canon typical political bullshit, Eventual Happy Ending)

💖 love on 35mm by fakeplasticlily (M, 26k, WangXian, Modern, College/University, Swimming, film student LWJ, Pining, Mutual Pining, swimmer WWX, best friends LWJ and JYL, the inherent mortification of being in love with your best friend’s brother, or your older sibling’s best friend)

🔒 forever can never be long enough for me by isshun (T, 12k, WangXian, Modern, Established Relationship, Food as a Metaphor for Love, winter solstice festival, [bangs pots and pans] hello welcome to the loving wei wuxian support group, featuring co-presidents JYL and LWJ getting along and bonding over their love for WWX, JYL and LWJ getting along is my soul and jam, hurt/comfort)

My best friend's brother by mollymijh (E, 16k, WangXian, Mentions of XuanLi, mentions of xiyao, Modern AU, College/University, POV LWJ, Romance, Mutual Pining, Childhood Friends, Protective JYL, JYL and LWJ are best friends, Oblivious LWJ, Guilt, Mentions of drugging, Attempted Sexual Assault, Top LWH/Bottom WWX, Explicit Sexual Content, Shameless Smut, First Time, Dry Humping, Anal Sex, Unprotected Sex)

~*~

If you didn’t get an answer to your ask here, don’t forget to make use of @mdzs-kinkmeme and MDZS KINK MEME on Dreamwidth. Authors actually do use them for ideas. You may get what you order!***Your prompt doesn’t have to be kink! Fluff, crack, whatever - it’s all good!***

[textualviolence]

Meng Yao/Jin Guangyao's Lovers Fuckability ranking

Level minus zero: Lan Xichen. Does not have even a shred of a fatherly relationship to JGY. Treats him like an equal. Is kind to him. Respects him as a person and genuinely likes who he is. Probably inspires JGY to become celibate so they can be chaste together. Some erotic tension if they don't fuck, brushes of hands, purity and chastity causing a rising of tension etc. But there's no way they can have actual sex outside of maybe the hiding from the Wen context. I bet they write poems to each other though. That's very nice. 2/10

Level 1: Nie Mingjue pre-Meng Yao's dismissal. Is technically probably Meng Yao's first dubious fatherbosslover figure. I do imagine he had a certain degree of guilt about it which isn't hot for anyone being victimized by an older authority figure. Definitely probably a lot of the sex they had and especially the kind they didn't have hinged on the fact that Meng Yao looks exactly like Nie Huaisang. I think if NMJ had been willing to cross that line and actually made Meng Yao kinda sorta pretend to be his little brother he would be further up the ranking, alas. The most morally dubious it gets is that Meng Yao is his servant and social inferior and probably aged around 15. However the incredibly high amount of approval he probably dished out regularly and easily alongside sex and orders did prepare the grounds for Meng Yao to then crave that kind of validation all the time and go to ridiculous lengths for it. 4/10

Level 2: Wen Ruohan. Will groom Meng Yao without subjecting him to his weird morality complex. WRH is just a bad guy and doesn't care. Also will favor Meng Yao over his actual blood children, partly as a manipulation tactic and also because his children kind of suck. Definitely loves to play people against each other and will use the trading of sexual favors as a political tool. Actually old enough to be his dad and is also in the same social position as his dad, currently beating his dad in a war, and acting as his dad dangling promises of legitimization in between throne room handjobs and prisoner torture sessions. Can humiliate both NMJ and JGS. Honestly the ideal situation. Too ideal? It's just too straightforward. Give yourself over to me body and soul and do my evil bidding and in exchange i'll give you all the validation you crave. That's so reliable that its suspicious and kind of a turn off. Where's the excitement and rollercoaster of unpredictable reward/punishment? 6/10

Level 5: Nie Mingjue post-Meng Yao's dismissal: No more little brother issue now it's all about how NMJ just wants to kill him at all cost and will risk political disaster in order to do so. NMJ who used to shower him with affection and validation, telling him all the time that he was proud of him and what a good job he was doing as a deputy, now wants him dead. The dick must be incredible. They probably don't have sex often & its never not violent & dangerous, but the high of it lasts for days. It doesn't lessen the rage in the long term but it evacuates it in the short term & where before the sex was coexisting with the validation now the sex IS the validation. Which makes it hot no matter how unvalidating its actually meant to be. Half those bruises he's hiding under his sleeves aren't from Madam Jin let me tell you. Plus he's writing poems to Lan Xichen and strongly considering the benefits of a chaste existence in between. The guilt and hypocrisy and having to lie to Lan Xichen's concerned and loving face when he sees the bruises is only making it more intense. 9/10

Level 7: Mo Xuanyu: He gets to become his dad(s) and take advantage of the willingness and admiration of a beautiful youth who would do anything for him. On top of that they're related. It's 100% reenactment power reversal fantasy combined with the horror of his marriage to Qin Su finding a concrete twisted sexual outlet. This time he fucked a half-sibling on purpose!!! And then he can dismiss him for sexual impropriety the second he comes to his senses and be rid of the sin forever which was half of the need. And then he can feel even more like his dad. 8/10

Level 10: Jin Guangshan: What more can I say. He slaps with one hand and caresses with another. Literally makes Jin Guangyao do the most secret taboo vile political tasks he can't offload onto anyone else and then refuses to touch him because of it until Meng Yao performs some kind of cleansing action, for which he is briefly rewarded with mild approval and even certain shows of affection, but never outside of the bedroom. Keeps a large retinue of whores and plays them off against each other, includes Meng Yao in the games to make sure he feels like one of them. No way to ever feel too comfortable in the certainty he has his father's anything because any shred of positive interaction is extremely hard-earned, unless he shows sign of wanting to leave or waver in his loyalties, in which case his father WILL pull him back with more love and care than he's ever shown which will feel like a drug. I bet he had more than one fight with NMJ over the issue of which groomer his son was to listen to and he won everytime. One show of possessiveness equivalent to 10'000 hours of basic respect in Meng Yao's heart. 10/10

[tavina-writes]

LXC would've gotten disbarred

After I kind of drifted away from the cnovel translation forum I used to be a part of, like, a decade ago, I thought to myself: my translator days are over! I will not translate stuff again! The post about if NMJ has hobbies (found here if you want to see it) was merely a blip on the radar of “not translating anything.” 

Alas, I appear to have descended into a new pit, and that is seeing things in the other translations of mdzs and going back to the Chinese to look at things, discussing with @autumnslantern and just, translating snippets of this book and then deciding to share the results. 

In this case, it’s a passage from Chapter 73, which is doing the rounds again, but I’ve most commonly seen as evidence for “LXC really wanted to say something about the treatment of the Wens but got steamrolled by NMJ’s objections” and I kind of just want to wave at the title of this post because if Chinese Novel!Xichen had been my defense lawyer, I would fire him. I would want him disbarred lol. I love him but this was not a shiny moment of Xichen getting steamrolled. 

Again, this appears like it will get long, so meta under the cut: 

The passage in question in this one, which is early on in Chapter 73: 

The fantranslation I have access to says this: 

Lan XiChen responded a moment later, “I have heard of Wen Qing’s name a few times. I do not remember her having participated in any of the Sunshot Campaign’s crimes.”

Nie MingJue, “But she’s never stopped them either.”

Lan XiChen, “Wen Qing was one of Wen RuoHan’s most trusted people. How could she have stopped them?”

Nie MingJue spoke coldly, “If she responded with only silence and not opposition when the Wen Sect was causing mayhem, it’s the same as indifference. She shouldn’t have been so disillusioned as to hope that she could be treated with respect when the Wen Sect was doing evil and be unwilling to suffer the consequences and pay the price when the Wen Sect was wiped out.”

Lan XiChen knew that because of what happened to his father, Nie MingJue abhorred Wen-dogs more than anything, especially with how intolerable he was toward evil. Lan XiChen didn’t say anything else.

One of the sect leaders spoke up, “What Sect Leader Nie said is quite right. Besides, Wen Qing is one of Wen RuoHan’s most trusted people. You’re telling me she never participated? Well I don’t buy it. Is there any Wen-dog without a single drop of blood on their hands? Maybe it’s just that we haven’t found out about it yet!”

The Chinese text that these passages correspond to is this: 

蓝曦臣沉吟道：“这位温情的大名我知晓几分，似乎���听说她参与过射日之征中任何一场凶案的。”

聂明玦道：“可她也没有阻拦过。”

蓝曦臣道：“温情是温若寒的亲信之一，如何能阻拦？”

聂明玦冷冷地道：“既然在温氏作恶时只是沉默而不反对，那就等同于袖手旁观。总不能妄想只在温氏兴风作浪时享受优待，温氏覆灭了就不肯承担苦果付出代价。”

蓝曦臣知道，因家仇之故，对温狗聂明玦是最为痛恨，他又是完全容不得沙子的性情，便不再言语。一名家主道：“聂宗主此言正是。况且温情既然是温若寒的亲信，说她没参与过？我是不信的。温狗哪个手上不沾几条人命？也许只是没被我们发现而已！”

Which I got from this source on the internet. At some point I should invest in buying an actual physical copy of this text, but I spent my discretionary Chinese book money on a great copy of Yanxi Palace so I’ll have to wait on my physical MDZS copy. 

Anyway, what follows are a bunch of screenshots of the translation process of this section and then some cleanup and a basic summary. 

Idk about you all, but I do not call someone a pejorative equivalent of WRH’s toady/crony/trusted ally, while saying “why would she stop his horrible crimes!” and then think that my good friend would have to “turn a blind eye” if we were to let her off when I’m trying very hard to defend her against the masses but am getting steamrolled into agreeing that she probably deserved it. 

Indeed, the two things that LXC says in this scene are: “I have heard briefly of Wen Qing’s reputation, it does not appear that she personally murdered anyone…” and “she’s a crony of WRH, how would she have stopped his atrocities?” 

Now, I actually like him more after realizing this fact, because he was being mildly bitchy about this! And honestly, given that the Wen burned down his house and killed his dad and killed a bunch of Lan cultivators and broke Wangji’s leg and kidnapped Wangji and nearly killed Xichen himself and he had to flee with a bunch of their sacred texts…I’d say he’s earned the right to be bitchy about them. 

But also if I were Wen Qing depending on Zewu-jun for his excellent defense lawyering skills at my criminal trial I would want him disbarred. And also fired. 

[jin-zixun]

yeah jgy lies. he tells lies. he is not entirely honest about everything at all times. he has secrets. he keeps them well. he doesn't always tell the truth.

is that like. inherently a bad thing though?

jgy comes to prominence as a spy. these are the skills that he uses to win the war and save everyone. he saves lxc because he lies. he saves qin su because he lies. he saves nmj because he lies (though nmj doesn't appreciate it). he kills wrh because he *lies*.

is the fact that he lies enough to condemn him? is it actually reasonable to draw conclusions about his character just from the fact that he isn't always honest? that he's selfish or uncaring or disgusting or evil? When it's something the characters condemning him have actually all benefitted from? it's a skill, it's a burden. is honestly always morally correct even if it will do more harm than good? does trust imply the need for truth?

(maybe when I have more time I'll write a proper essay on it but... needless to say i don't think jgy is evil or even wrong for lying. I don't even think it's normal to expect anyone to be 100% honest in real life. the idea that "lying (even if it's to save someone's life) is evil and suggests a rotten moral character" is... kinda flawed. yet people use it against jgy like it's reasonable and it's not it's just not.)

[lansplaining]

Been thinking about how little we actually know about the Wen’s as a whole. Like Wen Chao has a whole ass wife that he’s cheating on that we know nothing about. And if WC has a wife, Wen Xu must have one and probably kids. And he never even gets an on page appearance or even description. That the big bad of the whole Sun Shot campaign, Wen Ruohan doesn’t even meet our main character! Do we know why he kicked off the campaign besides evil? That’s not even going into Wen Qing’s branch, because presumably she’s the daughter of WRH’s younger brother and all the other family there. For as many characters as there are in MDZS it feels weird how little we get about the Wen’s.

THE REAL HOUSEWIVES OF QISHAN, a new series premiering on Bravo

forreal though, this is an interesting question! The one nitpick I'd make is that Wen Ruohan isn't doing what he's doing out of evil, he's doing it for wealth and power. They've got the most land, they've got the most disciples, they've got the most money, and... well... nobody has stopped them yet? It takes a pretty egregious series of oversteps before anyone does anything about it!

I have a lot of trust in MXTX as a writer so I'd like to say that there's some deep, thematic meaning behind how little we know of the Wen, but... at the end of the day, I think sometimes you just need a baddie, especially given Sunshot is really more background setting than plot in itself.

[sonik-kun]

I do find it interesting that JC antis have the nerve to call us "fake JC fans" and accuse us of mischaractersing him when it is them who fail to understand him as a character.

A true fan, as they claim to be, would look at things from JC's pov and come to understand why he made those decisions and understand his feelings on things that he had little information to go from in the first place.

To say we disregard his "bad" qualities is completely untrue, too. Every JC fan I know acknowledges that he is flawed, just like WWX and LWJ are really. But they are all qualities that we love about him because being morally grey is what makes him human and interesting.

His moral greyness has never been disregarded by us. It has merely been explained and understood because it is important to look at things from all perspectives, rather than just the MC's in order to understand and properly appreciate the story.

Jiang Cheng is flawed. But as a human we can relate to his emotions, his reactions to things and how he became the person he is because a true fan would put themselves in his shoes in order to understand that.

To claim JC is bad through and through with no redeeming qualities in him is factually incorrect because it excludes all his good qualities that have been both explicitly and inexplicitly put there by the author for you to pick up on.

In ignoring them, you are doing MXTX's work a disservice.

If you want to talk about irredeemable characters, there are plenty others in the novel whose actions can never be justified.

Jin Guangshan, for example, was a character I immediately simped for thanks to his gorgeous Donghua design ✨️. But I understood completely that he was a vile, irredeemable person with not an ounce of goodness in him.

I also loved Wen Chao and Wen Ruohan and found their arc to be thoroughly amusing throughout. But again, I understood that there was no justifying their actions, as I'm sure many other JC fans would agree.

As much as I love these characters and consider myself a fan of them, I appreciate that there is no good bone in their body. They had no reason other than pure, evil intent to do what they did. There were no other nuances to it compared to the likes of JC and JGY, whose actions can be both sympathised and understood.

These characters were the TRUE villains, and it is perhaps them you should be focusing on in your metas if you want to discuss purely evil and irredeemable characters in your work.

To claim that all JC fans have no reading comprehension or any understanding of morals is a silly thing to accuse us of when you know full well that we don't give the likes of WRH and JGS the same treatment as we do JC.

Anyone who says JC is evil and irredeemable yet still claims to love and "stan" him is not a true fan in my eyes and completely misunderstood the character altogether. Sorry.

[little-meowyao]

SALT SALT SALT (long post)

EXHAUSTED SIGH, what is this doing in my dash again.

The first betrayal of his trust, in the novel, was not something that concerned NMJ in the slightest!!! JGY killed a Jin commander! And I think he was right to do so! Even putting the abuse aside, what other chance would he have of getting recognised (that he knows of), if the man kept taking credit for his work? We as a fandom put too much blame on JGY for killing that dude. I think it was 100% warranted

Of course JGY would force NMJ to show deference to WRH! That's his job! Firstly, literally everyone but JGY has to crawl around WRH, so, while very personally targeted at NMJ (which I'm sure JGY did on purpose to appease WRH), it's just Something That Happens.

Of course JGY had to kill NMJ's men! What else could he do? He couldn't save them all, and WRH 1. Is capricious AS FUCK, and 2. would not take kindly either to insults to the Wen or to JGY himself (bc he likes JGY). Additionally, that was not a ruse!!! Not at all! While I do believe JGY holds some regret at killing WRH, it was his plan! So that LXC would like him more??? That is just fucking stupid!

Being gaslit??? Where??? If someone was gaslighting NMJ, it was LXC (FYI I don't think he was, not intentionally at least, but I would see where someone that does is coming from), not JGY! They just do not speak the same language! You know the excuses vs explanations?? Yeah! That's what was happening! JGY trying to explain himself and NMJ thinking he was making excuses!

Never does JGY deny doing anything, or try to make NMJ doubt himself, or shift blame, or literally anything that could be considered gaslighting!

"Doubting his judgement" did he? Did NMJ ever doubt his judgement? Even when he had reasons to? Or is he just so goddamn obstinate that when he sets his mind to something he will not change? HM?

NHS pulled away from NMJ because NMJ was being, you know. A fucking ass! He burned NHS's stuff! We have no reason at all to believe they were drifting away before that! It's not because JGY understands him better! Is because NMJ does not understand him at all, doesn't care to, and punishes him for doing what he likes! I'm not going into how NMJ was trying to force NHS to follow a path that would get him killed, violently, but that!!! That!!! Yeah!

He threathened to beat him and JGY together! And we have no reason to believe it was an empty threath! Burning the fans was just a threath before, too! And if you read that scene carefully, you'll see that NHS is genuinely terrified. He locks himself away for days after. I don't blame NMJ for it entirely, but at the end of his life he was getting legitimately abusive towards NHS.

NMJ can't explain JGY is evil because he is not. Because everything that JGY ever does to wrong NMJ is either necessary (the fire palace exchange), not related to him at all (the Jin commander), or completely out of his hands (the XY situation).

For every action there is a reaction. Though they do retraumatize eachother, NMJ does it more and more severely, with less justification. I can't even call them mutually abusive because NMJ is doing all the abuse, and JGY's actions are reactionary. These two should have gone separate ways after sunshot.

And sure, JGY killed him in a horrible way, but it was NMJ that made their relationship kill or get killed. NOT JGY. JGY went ahead with turmnoil after three separate murder attemps.

After the staircase scene showed him that their relationship was beyond salvation and that NMJ would never care to understand his previlege, or to ackowledge their inherent power imbalance, or to stop and listen (actually listen), or to stop and think that his authority as JGY's da-ge doesn't and won't ever override JGS's power as his father. (Especially with someone as filial as JGY is)

I love NMJ. I genuinely do. But this take is so toxic I need to pick it up with a damn hazmat suit.

And what pisses me off the most is that this post doesn't show a fundamental lack of understanding of NMJ's character! This is the way NMJ thinks! But he's an extremely biased narrator and his thoughts should not be taken at face value!

I've never interacted with this person before, but if I had to make a guess, I'd say they're very caugh up in analysing NMJ (which is valid, I love him too), but in their love for NMJ, they started taking his thought process and conclusions as fundamentally factual, which they are not. I could be wrong, but it is how this comes off.

Anyway. I'm done

[thatswhatsushesaid]

kicking around some thoughts this morning, this is extremely disorganized but here are the key ingredients in this meta smoothie:

jin guangyao +

the bad things that he does (both of his own free will and under duress for wrh and/or jgs) +

textual evidence presented to the reader indicating that jgy is aware of the awfulness of these things +

reader interpretation of what jgy's understanding of that awfulness means about his personal feelings about his own actions (i.e., he is perfectly okay with them, or he is absolutely fucked up by them, or something in between)

= two* contradictory versions of jgy in fic and/or the neverending game of mdzs fandom discourse

(*yes i know there are more than two contradictory interpretations of his character, but by and large the majority these interpretations can be filed into two categories: he's Evil or he's Not Evil.)

the more i mull it over, the more i think it's at this specific intersection (of jin guangyao as a character, the actions he takes in the story, his understanding of these actions as being terrible, and reader response to his understanding) where the disconnect happens between fans who consider themselves jgy stans, and fans who either don't like jgy or don't have much of an opinion on him either way.

i think it's clear where i stand on the issue (jgy is NOT unaffected by the terrible things he has done, even in those instances where he believed his actions to be unavoidable or necessary), but i also want to provide clear textual evidence for why i stand by this interpretation. since i don't have the time today to go through the whole book and draw out the specific passages i have in mind, i'll just pull this one quote from the guanyin temple sequence for now and come back to this post with additional quotes as reblogs later:

Only after the word came out did [Lan Xichen] remember that he’d already one-sidedly broke off with Jin GuangYao, and thus he shouldn’t call him [A-Yao]. However, Jin GuangYao seemed as if he didn’t notice it, his expression collected, “Brother, don’t be surprised that I can call him such dirty things. To this father of mine, I once had hopes as well. In the past, as long as it was his command, whether it be to betray Sect Leader Wen or protect Xue Yang or remove anyone who disagreed, no matter how foolish it was, how hated I’d be, I’d obey regardlessly. But do you know what it was that made me lose hope completely? I’ll answer your first question now. It wasn’t that I’d never be worth a single hair on Jin ZiXuan or one of the holes in Jin ZiXun, it wasn’t that he took back Mo XuanYu, it wasn’t that he tried every possible way to make me a mere figurehead either. It was the truth he once told the maid beside me when he was out indulging himself again [...]" -EXR translation, pg 984

bolded emphasis is mine because i think these textual context clues provide insight into jgy's state of mind, both in this moment where he is struggling to maintain his composure (and will later fail to maintain it), as well as in the past when he was carrying out these actions for jgs. i think we have every reason to believe that jgy is being honest when he says that he once had hope of receiving his father's affection, recognition, and respect, given what we have seen of his past actions prior to his legitimization. i also think he's being honest when he describes the actions he takes for jgs as being foolish, or certain to make people hate him, because... well, that's precisely what happens in the text, isn't it? his word choice is deliberate when he describes his own actions: they were foolish, and he knew that he would be hated for doing them, but even while doing them, he held out hope that perhaps one day, he would have done enough to earn the thing that jgs gave freely and unconditionally to his other children. one day, he would not have to do these terrible things that jgs never, ever asked of jzx, or jzn, or mxy, ever again.

and then. and then.

anywho. /sticks a bookmark on this post, i will come back to this, probably.

[angstymdzsthoughts]

I think lqr/wrh can cause amazing angst as their relationship can mirror lwj/wwx as the whole dynamic of reserved rule follower/open rule breaker can be both lqr/wrh and lwj/wwx, which explains his distaste for wwx as he doesn't want his nephew to love a monster like he did. (Rather than his mother's actions) And it can also parallel lxc/jgy as i can't imagine lqr not cutting off wrh once his more evil actions came to light similar to Guanyin Temple albeit i think lqr responded with anger rather than sadness/guilt as lxc. (Plus it would explain both the less severe attack on cr and why lqr didn't fight in sunshit campaign) plus who doesn't love a tragic romance.

These two are one of my guilty pleasure ships lol. (I recommend reading some of @robininthelabyrinth's fics with them, I adore how they write their dynamic of WRH being delighted, amused, and entertained by just about everything LQR does while LQR is just a confused, grouchy old man who wants to be left alone thank you)

I think I like the ship so much because you know it ends tragically from the get go. Even if you focus on happier times for them you always know WRH will go mad with power and LQR will always chose his clan over his love.

[trans-yllz]

Jump scared by xue yang so real 😭 I started my rewatch a week ago and was also like wait, he's here already??

LITERALLY and he gives like important plot information too. hello

[mostlikelytofangirl]

Do non CQL versions of WRH even count as dilfs? Yes, he has the children to technically fulfill the requirements of a dilf BUT his high cultivation means he looks as young as they are. He doesn't have the required old man look in any other version to wholly qualify as a dilf. Lmk you're thoughts, this question has been destroying my sleep

Ok listen. You do make a good point, the entire thing of a dilf is the 'aged like fine wine' appeal of a +40 years-old. In fact, this actually reminds me of the call out posts here about how teens be calling dilf a simple guy who just turned 30.

When it comes to WRH tho, tbh I like to stick to the dictionary definition and accept that, if he has kids, then he's a dad, and since he's a snack, he a dilf --even if he does be looking too young to be one bc his cultivation is too crazy high and for all we know dude could be pushing 60 idk.

Now, in the case of the donghua, I'd argue that he looks around the same age as others like JFM and JGS, so we would have to make the case about them counting or not too. Also, idk if it's the evilness, and maybe it's just me, but there's something about him that doesn't really make him look "young", if you know what I mean.

Like, I would look at him at totally believe that he has teen sons y'know.

I mean yeah, there are no incipient wrinkles or gray hairs, but is this a Mister™ in full right? Absolutely.

So, in my humble opinion, daddy can step on me 😌