#WLW shows getting canceled left and right

[caliphoria17]

FUCK NETFLIX, MAN! FUCK YOUUU!!! 😭😭😭🤬🤬🤬

[mariathechosen1]

“Ofmd, heartstopper, wwdits, RWRB, good omens, The Witcher; Queer representation is at its very best right now!”

Where are the women though-

“The world is healing!!!”

What about the women-

“Diversity in television has never been this good!”

Y’ALL, THE WOMEN-

[clumsycapitolunicorn]

.

[favatrice]

How does every netflix show with white mlm couples get renewals left and right but every wlw show just gets canceled whenever they become canon. I am genuinely devastated.

[just-thoughts-no-vibes]

I need people to actually touch grass because being so chronically online completely shifted your perception of reality and I fear many have lost touch with it. Your constant presence on the internet has led you to a space dominated by minorities and due to the lack of contact with the real world, you started believing that it's a standard. Because of this, I often see out-of-touch folks asking for something to be normalized, only for that to be the most standard and well-accepted thing ever.

A few days ago, I saw a discussion about a yuri manga and one person in the comment said: "This is so toxic! If it was about a man and a woman, it would be canceled instantly!" I literally had to get up and walk away from my laptop because I couldn't believe what I just read. How out of touch do you need to be to believe that a gay piece of media can get away with something that would get a straight story canceled? For God's sake, we live in a heteronormative world where 99% of all media ever is about straight people and you unironically believe that they are judged more strictly than gay stories? Even better, are you trying to convince me that stories about straight people are getting canceled left and right because of toxicity? If you are, I am begging you to turn on the TV and pick any show ever.

What makes this statement even worse is the fact that it insinuates that the wlw media has some privileged position compared to the rest when the reality is the opposite. The moment that the relationship between women is not a perfect little walk in a park, puritans spawn out of nowhere to preach their bullshit. And they don't stop at problematic behavior but often go as far as to criticize any form of sexual attraction. So many times I've seen people describing piece of wlw media as "for the male gaze" because characters showed lust, sexual need, or something similar (people describing The Handmaiden as some fetish for men is my Roman empire).

On top of that, the rate at which wlw mediums are being canceled is concerning. The last few years were especially tough with so much representation being taken from us (Warrior Nun, I Am Not Okay With This, Teenage Bounty Hunters, Rebelde, Welcome to Eden, First Kill, Everything Sucks, Gentleman Jack, Ratched, The Wilds, and many, MANY others). And to tell you, the situation in the manga and anime industry is no better. Just a few days ago manga "Sukeban and Transfer Student" was canceled due to low sales that were caused by awful promotions which is a common issue with yuri works. So hearing this from what is probably a straight person makes my blood boil.

In short, go outside you dumb bitch and let minorities have something for themselves!

[lesbiansluffy]

no but the fact that wednesday with its queerbait between wednesday and enid will get renewed while actual wlw shows like first kill and now warrior nun get canceled left and right is so vile actually

[leighlew3]

Hi Leigh!

I hope you don't mind me asking this, but because of your knowledge of the industry, I'm genuinely curious about your thoughts on the whole Warrior Nun situation. With everything going on - fandom noise, all the articles, Netflix CEO commenting, etc - what do you, realistically, think is going to happen? Not only with the show itself but also within the industry. Like, do you think it will have an impact in any way? I've personally never witnessed a streaming service getting so much negative criticism before, but it reminds me of the time around Lexa's death on The 100 and all that followed. It feels like "bury your gays" turned into "cancel your gays" and if nothing else, I just hope all these WLW shows getting cancelled leads to some changes - but again, is that something you see happening?

Buckle up, this is gonna be a novel...

In all honesty if this was a couple years ago, or even just one year ago I would say it might make people less likely to drop LGBTQ shows, absolutely.

But with everything that’s happened over the last year… sadly, I think Hollywood will do what Hollywood so often does and take all the wrong lessons from this and become even more paranoid about greenlighting LGBTQ (and in particular wlw) shows in the first place, for fear if it doesn’t work out they’ll have a widespread backlash from the LGBTQ community and risk being labeled as homophobic. aka “We don’t have to worry about pissing people off with cancellations if we don’t make the shows in the first place.” aka “Not worth the trouble.” could be the perspective of people in charge in the coming days.

Lexa’s death on The 100 taught the lesson that it’s (generally) NOT okay to bury your gays. And then Supercorp on Supergirl sent the message that queerbait is outdated as hell, and just plain embarrassing and unacceptable now (aka either deliver and go there, or stop teasing it and state outright you never will). 

So, I’d love to say Warrior Nun will teach people not to cancel wlw shows that have strong fanbase, but based on recent statements it’s clear that in this case they’re running with the (hard to buy) defense that it wasn’t successful and the fanbase was “small” (?!), or at least not successful and big enough for the budget it required to keep going. So between that + the many, many wlw shows that have been lost over the last year to cancellations... it’s pretty bleak right now, tbh. Recent events overall, even beyond WN, is just likely sending the message to TPTB that it’s risky doing shows featuring (lead especially) LGBTQ rep, in particular shows with wlw rep. It’s sending the message that wlw shows simply don’t perform to the level needed. 

And rather than look at the REAL reason WHY something failed to reach a broader audience or meet someone’s invisible and undefined standards for renewal, TPTB in many cases could sadly chalk it up to “queer women don’t sell” even though there could be so many other reasons a show didn’t reach the level of audience they deem acceptable for a renewal, including but not limited to: bad or limited marketing by the network or streamer themselves and/or lack of time to garner a proper audience (a struggle many streamers have with their shows in general, even outside of LGBTQ rep), or maybe it’s on TPTB behind a show itself aka it simply had subpar writing and poor production value, or bad acting/casting, or lack of chemistry for the lead duo, or just plain terrible creative decisions (see The Wilds Season 2 making a show about girls into a show about boys) etc etc. 

I mean, Dickinson was effing brilliant, fantastic casting and chemistry, incredibly clever and heartfelt writing, solid production value, overwhelmingly positive reviews -- but it never got the marketing it should have had. And thus it quietly came and went, left its mark on its core fans, but was at least able to end in the way they wanted if nothing else, after 3 short seasons. 

Look, one of the most successful streaming series of all time that literally helped launch the format -- was the sapphic as hell Orange is the New Black. But OITNB was the perfect recipe. It was well written, fantastically cast, had organic buzz galore, award noms -- but it also had big marketing. It was the ideal alignment of ALL vital elements coming together to work. 

And I think that show really paved the way for a lot more queer wlw content to emerge, and fill the streamers especially. Alas, sadly, the bubble burst. And it burst for many reasons, including political theater in real life and an attack on LGBTQ rights of late. But for two big reasons, from a strictly industry side: lack of proper marketing for some shows, and lack of quality from others. 

I mean, let’s face it, some of the wlw series that have been axed the last year or two were not always high quality shows overall (I mean come on, some were on The CW for a reason). And it may seem like “But, cishet shows can be silly or cringey or lame and last for years!” Yes, absolutely. And that’s incredibly unfair that LGBTQ audiences can’t have shows that are just straight up camp or have mediocre writing or acting but are still loved by fans and last for a while. But that’s the hierarchy. It’s heteronormative bs and it’s not right, but it’s just how things are until we can successfully change them. The community has to work twice as hard to be taken seriously. And for LGBTQ BIPOC in particular, sadly one can stack those obstacles even more. 

So, I think for the next few years, shows with wlw representation in the TV space (and otherwise) -- well, they’re going to have to check a LOT of boxes in terms of overall quality, casting, concept, execution, talent on screen and bts, etc and then be grabbed up by a partner that truly believes in it enough to properly promote it -- in order for it to stand a real chance at sticking around. 

Warrior Nun had most of the elements above, alas much like Dickinson -- it just did not have the marketing support it needed. Meanwhile others shows had the marketing -- but honestly just weren’t that great in terms of quality, so fans simply didn’t latch on as much, and who could blame them. 

And thus, here we are. So do I think the widespread backlash around Warrior Nun’s cancellation, and fans’ amazing efforts to fight back will have any lasting effect on how Hollywood makes cancellation decisions? In the past I would have said 100%. But for now, I sadly kinda doubt it, because its cancellation was just the latest (but arguably biggest) in a long list of cancellations. 

If anything, right now Hollywood execs may actually feel emboldened to just go with the flow, take the social media fury from fans, and do what they’re gonna do -- with no regard for impact on the LGBTQ community. They also can hide behind the excuse of “Lots of shows and projects are being cancelled left and right, LGBTQ shows are no exception nor being specifically targeted, LGBTQ fans just don’t see the bigger picture. For every LGBTQ show canned, there’s 10 shows about straight people that are dead too.” And I say this -- because I had this said to me recently by someone with power in the industry. Alas what these people don’t understand is it’s NOT the same. Because LGBTQ content is so limited already that the community can’t afford to lose any more. And those 10 cishet shows that got the axe? They’ll just be replaced with 10 more next year. Meanwhile LGBTQ shows? Are less likely now to be greenlit after all this. 

And that’s disheartening. And it’s not okay. 

TLDR: I dunno how all of this will play out for sure. I HOPE the Warrior Nun situation changes something for the better, I just... right now, at this exact moment in time, I don’t feel super confident that it will. I think we just need to get through this painful period in LGBTQ media history and hopefully come out the other side better off somehow, likely after a show with wlw rep hopefully comes along soon that has both the quality AND marketing to truly succeed.

[elliesgaymachete]

Television is so bleak right now, like especially for wlw, but just in general things get pumped out to make some quick money and dropped as soon as they’re no longer profitable and it’s been a problem for YEARS but it feels like it’s been coming to a head this year what with all the wlw shows getting cancelled and the shit show that is the Warner/Discovery merger. Television isn’t given the time and space and pacing to thrive which means stories are rushed & left hanging, and fans & creators are left disappointed. Literally the only people benefitting from this are the rich executives profiting off of it. They’re literally going to wring everything dry until there’s nothing left. I say this with all seriousness but creatives NEED to be in charge of their own stories or the television industry as a whole is going to continue to suffer

[infinite-hearteyes]

#SaveWarriorNun

(contains spoilers for Warrior Nun, Killing Eve, The Haunting of Bly Manor, The 100)

Well, here we are again. 

If I’m being honest, this kind of not quite unexpected disappointment is becoming really fucking tiring. 

Less than 24 hours ago, I read the news on Twitter that Warrior Nun had been cancelled by Netflix. I've already cried, a bunch of times. I've felt hopeless. And I'm angry. Fuck, I'm mad...

Barely a month after its second season was unceremoniously dropped onto the streaming service without so much as an ounce of promo by Netflix, any hopes for a third season have been stomped into the ground. It’s hard to believe we had to sit through a 2,5 year wait between season 1 and 2 only for this to happen… 

2022 certainly seems to be challenging 2016 for the title of ‘worst year for wlw television’. For me, the year started off with the ending of Killing Eve. Being a show that had unapologetically showcased a queer lead from its very beginning, I must admit I had quite high hopes for how they were going to wrap up this story. Admittedly, the quality of the writing had certainly slipped since its incredible first season, but still. There were so many ways in which they could have brought the storylines of Villanelle and Eve to a close, that I really thought they would’ve had it in the bag. It didn’t even have to be a ‘happy’ ending in order to provide a passionate (and largely queer) fanbase the closure they craved. 

A great example of queer tragedy being done right, to me at least, is The Haunting of Bly Manor. It portrayed the death of Dani in a way that was incredibly truthful to the overall storyline, but also to her character arc. It wasn’t there just for shock; it wasn’t a simple plot device to push another character’s storyline through. It was tragic, and it was beautiful. Moreover, I would point out that Bly never showed Dani’s actual death on screen, which to me, is another huge difference. It showed a sense of respect, not only for her as a character, but for us as the audience too. Whether that was intentional on the writers’ part or not, I definitely appreciated it. Did I still cry my eyes out for an hour after watching the finale? Yes, obviously. But it felt right. 

The writers of Killing Eve season 4, however, clearly did not have this kind of respect for their audience or characters. As someone who was part of the fight against the Bury Your Gays trope back in 2016, it felt like they watched episode 3.07 of The 100 and said, “you know what, we should do that too”. The utter carelessness with which they showed Villanelle and Eve what happiness could be like for them, only to rip it away from them (and us) mere minutes later, was disgusting. And on top of that, unbelievably unoriginal too. Lexa and Clarke, anyone? 

So that was the start of 2022 for me. Villanelle’s death left me feeling like nothing had changed over the past 6 years since Lexa, as though we were back at square one. Of course, that’s not quite the case, but the hopelessness that comes with seeing this occur over and over again is certainly quite exhausting. 

Then came along one of the most campy tv shows I have ever watched: First Kill. Did I absolutely love it? No, not really. But was it a fun watch when I wanted to shut off my brain for a second? Definitely. Besides: campy, cringey, young adult series are found all over the place, and it was great to get to have that for the lesbians too! Unfortunately, it received nearly no promotion from Netflix (hmm, anyone seeing a pattern here?) up until just before it aired. After that, people went crazy over it. Was it the best show ever? Nope, but not everything needs to be! Not that I’ve ever watched it, but how many seasons is Riverdale at again? It was silly, and weird, and over-the-top, and super super gay. Which, of course, sealed the deal for Netflix. Can’t have a successful show about a bunch of lesbians, now can ya? 

During the rest of this year, it’s felt like every other week, you’d hear about a new cancellation of shows centering sapphic, bipoc and trans* characters and storylines. I’ll admit, I haven’t watched many of them, because, well… Hard to commit to a show when you already know what to expect. 

And then, Warrior Nun came back. Oh boy, was I obsessed with this show when season 1 came out back in 2020. I was going through a rough patch (who wasn’t, this is 2020 we’re talking about) and this show was a great escape. Although I was at first doubtful because of its title, once I saw a preview, I was sold. I think I pretty much binged all 10 episodes. After that, I joined the (absolutely lovely) cast, crew, and the bunch of us viewers that had fallen in love with these characters, for the weekly WarriorNunWednesdays. Those nights, watching and live-tweeting along with everyone, certainly made it obvious just how much these people cared about the show. Interacting with the incredible actresses, writers, directors and crew was fantastic. One of the few positives about that time in my life, truly. 

Of course, there was a long wait for season 2. But I was okay with that, because holy shit, we got a season 2!! And in the end, wow, what a season 2 we got! More gorgeous locations, awesome stunts, perfectly paced character development… what’s not to love? I was super invested in the storyline and the characters, who each were fully fleshed out and lovable in their own ways. And Avatrice, oh, Avatrice… The type of quality slowburn that I generally seem to only be able to find in fanfiction. Such incredible chemistry between these women, and oh my god, the dancing scene in the very first episode?! Mindblowing. 

Was I pissed at the lack of promo from Netflix? The fact that it was left completely up to the fans and the cast to take up that work? … I think you can imagine my answer to that by now. But we did great! Let that be very clear, and allow yourself to be proud of that: we supported this show beautifully. And did y’all see those ‘hours watched’ for each week?! All the awesome reviews, and the audience score?! We. did. great. 

Unfortunately, and I think it’s pretty clear by now, Netflix probably never had any intention to renew Warrior Nun for a third season. They don’t care about these delicately told stories, these awesome queer women leads. They have no interest in gorgeous cinematography, or insane stunt sequences. And they certainly don’t give a damn about passionate fans. It sucks that the likes of Netflix hold so much power in this industry, when all that should be important is quality creative storytelling. Fuck you, capitalism… 

It’s sad, and sometimes infuriating, that it never feels like you can fully enjoy a show because of the constant threat of cancellation. But we fought well. And if there’s any chance left, we won’t stop fighting, I know that. This show, and these people, deserve nothing less. I’ll repeat that which we were all saying back in 2016: we deserve better. Don’t forget that. 

If you’ve gotten this far, thank you for sticking with my rant. Know that we can and will bring change to this tv landscape. There are so many of us, so many who care. Seek out community, take care of yourself and others. Let yourself feel all the feelings that come up. Cherish what you love, keep being creative. It will get better. Yeah, cliché, I know, but it will. 

To quote Emily Andras: “Everyone’s happy ending is unique. Don’t settle until you get yours.” 

In this life or the next…

[gaelic-symphony]

🦋 & 🌻?

🦋what are you most insecure about when you post a fic?

I'm honestly most insecure about the lack of response I tend to get. Growing up as a neurodivergent "weird" girl, I experienced a lot of getting excited to talk about my hyperfixations and being met with sighs and eye rolls. When I post a fic and get ZERO reblogs/comments, it feels like that all over again. It feels like I'm opening up and sharing a part of myself to people who think I'm annoying for doing that.

🌻what makes you want to give up on writing? what makes you keep going?

See above lol. My insecurity about sharing my hyperfixations with people who find them annoying, and then combine that with the rampant misogyny and lesbophobia in fandom and fanfic. As a lesbian femslash writer with NO interest in centering men in my media/fandom experience, I'm a misfit in a community that is supposed to be specifically FOR misfits. I'm screaming into the void about my favorite female characters and f/f ships and putting out really masterful stories that I poured my heart and soul into, and I'm watching everyone else who likes this thing I like completely ignore me in order to fangirl over white men and the fans who write about them.

I keep writing in part because I have stories to tell, even if nobody wants to hear them, and if I don't write them down and get them out, they'll take over my brain. Also, writing about my favorite female characters helps me center women in my media experience, even when canon doesn't. With wlw and female-centered shows being cancelled left and right, curating my media experience to be female-focused can really be an uphill battle, so I arm myself with headcanons and missing scenes and explorations of the relationships between fictional women.

And I also keep writing because of all the wonderful friends I've made through fanfic who make me feel supported and validated in my hyperfixations and my creativity. The femslash community is small and unfairly maligned, but finding other people who are willing to scream about fictional women truly means the world to me. So a big, big thank you to folks like @blackbird-brewster, @sweetmidnights, @leftoverenvy, @prentiss-theorem, @imagining-in-the-margins, and many others who have made me feel less alone in this world!

[thewillowbends]

There’s two things going on here that are coming to a head that need to be discussed. What you’re seeing a collision of different community needs within a broader context.

One is that lgbt content should exist for teens since orientation effects more than sexuality. Minors deserve to have their emerging feelings examined in places where they are safe, thoughtful, and appropriate. LGBT+ people also deserve happy, loving stories that aren’t filled with endless drama and a angst.

On the other hand, a lot of older LGBT+ are aware that sex and risk are impossible to remove from the equation of queer identity because sex and gender are the two primary agents where LGBT existence challenges the existing hegemony and are often the ones targeted by laws. Wanting to see more age appropriate content is one thing, but we should absolutely be wary of the increasing trend of sanitized content when it comes to sex and violence, especially around LGBT+.

We aren’t living in the post-modern world yet. There is, in fact, a huge conservative backlash building in the underbelly of the political machine. It’s most obvious in the anti-trans rhetoric and the overturning of Roe, but if you’ve been keeping up with it, they’re not stopping there. They’ll gladly come for everybody else’s rights. Some have blatantly said it.

The sanitization of media isn’t an exaggeration. We are actively seeing it happen. Fandoms are infiltrated by socially conservative purity culture now. People are talking about removing sex scenes from movies and shows like this is a totally normal idea and not one deeply entrenched in religious moral rhetoric from the past. (Not violence, though! Which is totally fucked when you think about the obsessive focus on consent and how often violence isn’t but sex IS consented to.) It’s happening even on shows that don’t start that way — I literally watched a show on Netflix over six years go from great bi rep to bizarrely conservative, evangelistic narration where the two bi characters got married, had kids, and then had to denounce their former slutty ways. Talk about a bait and switch!

I had a friend comment to me one that it felt like we only got marriage as a silent trade off to being “good gays.” That’s why you have young LGBT railing against the audacious displays of Pride. That’s why you see more and more adult LGBT+ content (especially wlw content!) being pulled right and left. You can have your legal rights, they said, but you need to get rid of the queer. You need to be as much like us as possible to pass!

I don’t think she’s wrong, and I think it’s obvious by now it’s a lie. They still hate us. They still want to overturn Oberfeld. They still want to take away trans and women’s rights. For some, the only good gay is one that doesn’t exist.

But even outside of LGBT+, we are starting to see the impact of media sanitization and the lack of productive sexual dialogue on young people. They’re scared of it. It’s been put on a pedestal that they can’t approach sensibly, and so they either don’t at all or do so incautiously. There’s new wave conservatism rising amongst some of them, but on the other hand…STD rates are on then rise. Fewer young people are getting into relationships, both as a result of the economic stresses of their society but also because we aren’t modeling healthy ones for them. It’s the worst of both worlds.

So while I agree that things like Heartstopper and Love, Simon should exist for kids, I do think we should be critical of the increasing lack of adult queer content. We need both, but there’s a very obvious trend of the latter being canceled or sanitized to avoid the complex realities of publicized queerness. What’s actually happening is that the group that’s criticizing the former, IMO, is having trouble articulating their actual fears about the latter — not that things like Heartstopper are a problem but that it feels like media is selling sex and gender minorities a false sense of security at odds with the political reality.

Their problem isn’t with that media or the kids who see themselves in it. Their problem is with the corporations who want to say it’s the only acceptable experience by way of sweeping the rest of the mess under the rug. That’s where I think the disconnect between different parts of the LGBT+ community on these issues is mainly coming from. People would have less concerns if things like Heartstopper existed in the same world where things like Warrior Nun did, but they aren’t, and it’s becoming glaring.

seen lots of articles and people saying that heartstopper was like "too clean" and that teenagers aren't that wholesome and they should be having sex and doing drugs and stuff and sure some teenagers definitely do have sex and party and do drugs but honestly a lot of teenagers DON'T and the idea in tv that all teenagers do that kind of thing can really fuck you up when you're like 16!!!! because you think you're behind your peers but mostly you AREN'T !!!!! we need boring teenager representation not everyone has a euphoria skins degrassi teenagehood some of us didn't drink or party or date some of us just did the kind of stuff they did in heartstopper like walk dogs and have sleepovers and skip prom to hang out at a friend's house and dance and have a good time and watch sitcoms!!! like heartstopper is good representation for people who just had regular uneventful teenage years!!!!

[rilzona]

the LesbianTVVErse.....

What is going on? WLW tv shows are getting canceled left and right, shows are being written like tax write offs( so.....HORRIBLY), and no one seems that passionate about what they are creating. After the Rizzles, Calzona, Swan Queen era I thought I’d be prepared for lack luster queer girl tv but i guess not......

[avasillva]

why do they keep cancelling wlw shows wtf

[sflow-er]

Loved reading your thoughts on this! Adding some of my own.

I definitely agree with you; it’s wonderful that we’re getting so much queer rep, but a lot of it is very focused on photogenic cis men.

From a marketing POV, I guess MLM is probably considered the safest bet (and has been since Brokeback Mountain became a mainstream Hollywood hit). After all, MLM stories have the potential to appeal to queer people and allies of all genders, plus some straight women who might not care otherwise but happen to find the leads attractive. It only repels bigoted straight men who wouldn’t watch these stories anyway. WLW, on the other hand, might be considered less attractive to straight women (because how could they possibly want to watch something that isn’t focused on attractive men?) and perhaps even straight men (because even if they are allies, they might not relate as strongly to women’s stories).

I guess the same could be true of stories that are considered “niche”. The people who decide what kind of media to fund want to make money, and they probably think it’s too risky to have the leads belong to “too many minorities” at once, so to speak. Queer flavours of allosexuality and minority ethnic backgrounds are already considered quite mainstream, but the same cannot yet be said of asexuality, aromanticism, neurodiversity, disability, nonbinary or trans identities, or other types of more specific queer rep. The execs might think that such experiences wouldn’t appeal to a wide enough cross-section of the public, so they get relegated to side roles or left out completely.

In other words, I think the problem largely goes back to the overrepresentation of cis men in positions of power and their biases. A story has to be very intriguing indeed to convince them that it should be told, and even after that, the odds are against it. If it’s considered less likely to succeed, the powers that be may not see much point in promoting it (could be a wasted investment). If it consists of multiple seasons, it probably has to do exceptionally well to get renewed (poor or even just reasonably good numbers could confirm the execs’ biases). If they do take a chance and it fails to pay off, they will be even more hesitant to do so again.

The irony is, of course, that poor marketing and the knowledge of these less mainstream shows often getting cancelled only fuel the spiral, as viewers become hesitant to invest their time and energy.

Obviously, this is all oversimplified, and I don’t actually have any data to present. It’s just my own perception based on the gender division in the industry, as well as bits and pieces of info picked up over the years that I can’t trace back to any particular sources.

As for fandom, much of that depends on what’s already there in the source material. If the main pairing is MLM, most of the fan-made content will also focus on them. If the background characters who could be used for WLW or other types of representation are too far removed from the main plot, or if they aren’t interesting enough as characters in their own right, fewer fans will make use of them.

And, well. Sometimes, this general lack of representation can lead to really high standards. When one doesn’t see oneself represented in four films/shows out of five, the representation in that one film/show needs to be really good.

To name but a few examples... The Barbie movie has been both praised for its depiction of womanhood, and criticised for not making that depiction diverse enough (e.g. the experiences of women of different ethnic or socioeconomic backgrounds might be different). Ahead of the HS S2 premiere, I am already seeing posts begging people not to be upset if Isaac’s aroace experience doesn’t match their own. Even shows like YR and SKAM (OG) are sometimes criticised for their whiteness (e.g. in terms of how Linda, Simon and Sara’s Venezuelan heritage is depicted in YR, or the way Isak and Sana’s views on bigotry are paralleled in SKAM S4). Etc, etc.

And I get why it’s so important, I do! It’s just that the flipside is that it can feel demoralising to even attempt something that you already know won’t measure up. This is especially true for trying to represent marginalised groups you yourself aren’t part of.

For instance in YR, the most prominent female characters (Sara and Felice) are both BIPOC, and Sara is also autistic and has ADHD, as we know. Personally, I don’t feel like I could ever do justice to those crucial parts of their characterisation, having spent my entire life surrounded by very white and neurotypical people. Getting a beta would help, of course, but it doesn’t fit my writing process at all. Of course I would still do that if I was writing a novel or something - but fanfic is just meant to be a fun hobby, so...yeah.

To circle back to your main point, it’s definitely possible to enjoy and celebrate the queer media we get while also wishing that representation was more varied. It’s also good to try and reflect on our own reasons for focusing on stories that feature photogenic cis MLM pairings, and to be aware of the disadvantage that other types of stories often have to overcome.

And in some ways, I think...maybe we also need to try to be forgiving if that one piece of media out of five isn’t perfect. Of course we should still demand more and better representation, and we absolutely shouldn’t accept anything that’s just actively offensive or inaccurate! But in some ways, I feel like we should also try to support, encourage, and celebrate pieces of media (whether original or fan-made) that are genuinely trying, even if they don’t meet every mark. Or even if they get cancelled after S1.

Anyway, I do hope that last point doesn’t offend anyone. I’m not sure if I even managed to articulate it very well. I simply have a lot of thoughts about it, and I know I could certainly do better.

Complicated queer media feelings beneath the cut…

Is anyone else feeling… I dunno… complicated about the part where we have Heartstopper, Red White and Royal Blue, and likely more YRS3 promo happening all in the same month?

I find a kind of enjoyment in each of these, so on one hand, I’m happy about it! (YR is my dearest fandom love right now about which I have many deep feelings, Heartstopper brings me joy and is what I’d watch with my middle school kids if I had kids, and RWRB is more on the “fun popcorn media” side of things for me but also has a lot of government humor that I laugh at as a person living in DC who gets subjected to motorcades etc.)

And I also think it’s awesome that queer rep has come a long way since when I was in high school, and there was only kinda Will and Grace and Willow on Buffy and you barely heard about some kids watching Queer as Folk if they were lucky enough to have HBO and parents who weren’t weird about it.

And and at the same time I know I’m going to be looking at my dash like, huh, that is a lot of mlm romance kissing between photogenic cis men.

Which. Again. Is progress? But also I’m a not-skinny aroace homosocial queer who is very interested in the stories of women and nonbinary people as well, and stories about friendship as well as relationships that reject traditional definitions. I want sweet romantic moments in my stories and decent makeout scenes but I also want stories about how queerness can challenge capitalism and hegemony and how we can create new families of choice and so on.

And for some of the texts I’m talking about, the canon definitely delivers? Things feel balanced? YR explores the class system with so much skill, and makes me ask powerful questions about justice and identity and such. It also has incredible female characters, including Sara as B Plot Protagonist driving a significant part of the story. (I wish I could find more fanfic from female characters’ POVs. I wish there were just as many “can’t wait until they get their happy endgame” posts about the Sara-Felice friendship as there were about the Wilmon romance, and I adore the Wilmon romance. I just love everything else about the show alongside it, and sometimes I find myself desperately craving discussion about the other aspects of the show while not knowing how to find ways of engaging about it.)

Heartstopper—I love how a multiqueer friends group is so centered in the story. Nick and Charlie are the main characters but Charlie’s friendship with Tao matters as much in the first season as his romance with Nick. I love how the show chose to have Elle carry a significant subplot in season 1 (although they could do better with that) and I am hopeful that we’ll get an ace discovery story for Isaac in season 2 and I’m looking forward to seeing more Imogen and we get a new disabled character and we’ll also get Tara and Darcy being Tara and Darcy! I don’t really follow people for Heartstopper necessarily, because it’s not really something I analyze or write fic for, but, you know, there’s a lot of it that goes around and I have generally positive feelings about it. I’m curious about what parts of the show and what characters people will choose to focus on.

RWRB… well, it’s been a long time since I’ve read the book, but I’m sort of holding off on comments until I see what’s different between the book and the movie.

Long story short I think I’m going to feel great about these various mlm pairings individually, because they’re all distinct personalities with stories and such, but I’m going to be feeling kind of weird and overwhelmed about the attention and gif visibility and squeeing that mlm romances between photogenic cis men get in aggregate.

But also also. Maybe that’s on me for not being into something like Yellowjackets fandom or not spending more time browsing the tag for XO Kitty. So the problem could also be me. I mean who knowsss?????

[martyfromgiant]

thinking about how pretty much every single show with lesbian representation has been cancelled or ended by the network in the last year. it hurts so fucking much to see shows being cancelled that have a huge fan base or killing off lesbian characters without a second thought. it’s not gay shows that are being canceled, no, it is wlw shows. mlm shows have continued to go on getting praise and renewals where shows like first kill, even though they’re cheesy and shitty, that have lesbian main characters one being a black woman and having a half black cast are cancelled. it had twice the viewing of shows like heartstopper, a show with two white gay men leads, that got renewed in the first few weeks of its release. even with netflix setting first kill up to fail by releasing it at the same time as huge shows like stranger things and umbrella academy, it still was a huge hit and had such a loving fan base.

the wilds with a lesbian main couple and diverse female cast literally centered around the concept of girl power. huge and dedicated fan base. cancelled. killing eve lesbian main characters one of them being sandra fucking oh that explores the dark side of ourselves while giving really good rep. one of the most dedicated fan bases i’ve seen. cancelled. and not just that, what could have so easily been a happy ending for the couple was ripped from us in the last five minutes right after the characters finally admitted feelings after four fucking seasons. one of them is murdered right in front of the other.

i can’t speak much to shows like everything sucks and the society because i haven’t bothered to watch them knowing they get cancelled. i don’t want to get attached to beautifully written and relatable characters for some big rich homophobic network to tell me no, no you can’t have this anymore. that’s happened too many times to me. right as the couple is happy and things are okay, one of them dies in front of the other like clexa, villaneve, dani and jamie from bly manor. some don’t even really get the opportunity to get to that point and others are just left with their relationship unfinished, with things left unsaid. and don’t even get me started on queer baiting.

yeah gay shows in general with good representation are fucking hard to come by but i’m sorry. mlm don’t face the same kind of hardships that wlw do. there’s a reason burying your lesbians became such a well known trope. because lesbians in shows die all of the fucking time for no good reason. i wish companies like netflix, hbo, and prime would stop fucking being cowards and admit the real reason they’re cancelling these shows. it’s not because they’re not being viewed enough or don’t have a strong fan base. it’s because they’re fucking lesbophobic i don’t want to hear anything else about it or any bullshit that it wasn’t a big enough hit. it may be the 21st century but lesbians aren’t magically equal even within the lgbtq community. the only place to get good representation these days is from fan made sources like fan fiction and fan art. made by people who understand how hard it is.

it’s where we get to see what we’ve always wanted to see, the characters we love, loving each other and being happy. we don’t have big writers scratching ideas because it “wouldn’t look good or be good for ratings”. we get a world where villanelle and eve lived happily ever after instead of villanelle dying in front of eves eyes and and floating into the abyss. not some bullshit from laura fucking neal who knows absolutely nothing about the characters we know telling us it’s what they felt was right. glad burying your lesbians feels right to people. but in our fan spaces we get to see villanelle make it out alive, we get to see them have a normal life and watch movies together. we also get to see and express what we feel is right with the fuck ton of queer coding in media. we get to see nancy and robin fall in love, emma and regina confess their feelings for one another, and any of the endless amount of amazing ships that we desire. there is a reason we flock to those spaces, it’s where we feel safe, seen, and where we feel like maybe one day we can have a relationship like that, to be loved like that. but it sometimes doesn’t make up for seeing it all play out endorsed by a company and written by people that actually care about representation and their viewers instead of just money. we all want to be loved and feel accepted and seen but sadly, because of the events of the last year, i’m not gonna hold my fucking breath.

sorry this is a lot, i’m just so fucking pissed

[aroaceconfessions]

“sex favourable aces are not as represented as sex repulsed aces”

“sex repulsed aces are not as represented as sex favourable or sex averse aces”

“romance favourable aros are not as represented as romance repulsed or romance averse aros”

“romance repulsed aros are not as represented as romance favourable aros”

“aros are not as represented as aces”

“aces are not as represented as aros”

“alloaces/aroallos are not as represented as aroaces”

“aroaces are not as represented as alloaces/aroallos”

maybe.. just maybe, none of the aspec is represented properly? we’ve seen some ace characters, but it was never that explored was it? your opinion on who’s less or more represented will simply change based on what corner of the internet you are on, what individuals you interact with. i get that most of us feel alienated from allos and sometimes from our own communities, but i advice you to engage more into the side that doesn’t favour one or the other part of the aspec (i’m not saying that a person who is aro and is only posting aro content that that means they favour aro over any aspec identity). that’s why i never got the whole “i’m aroace, but my aro identity is more important than my ace identity” those statements made me feel like the fact that i identified as ace meant nothing and it wasn’t important because i’m not aro, but no, that is not true. both aro and ace, and the whole arospec & acespec are important. we’ll see underrepresentation for a long time, because the queer or trans representation is still not as common as cishet representation. shows that give power to queer (especially wlw) relationships get cancelled left & right and we still see idiots complaining about how the shows will “influence the kids” or some other bullshit. i know it’s painful to just sit and wait for any little bit of representation, like the other day i was reading alice oseman’s “radio silence” and saw aled and daniel discussing asexuality and demisexuality and i literally marked the whole page because that was the first time i saw ace and demiace be mentioned in a book. it sucks that we have to sit back and wait, but i hope one day there’ll be a show/movie/any media that is meant for us and we’ll see the whole aspec be represented, properly.