#Trade School

[prokopetz]

A thing that bothers me about wizard schools in popular media – outside of the magic-grade-school stuff, anyway – is that they're typically depicted as being basically magic universities, but their actual curricula and pedagogical approaches look much more like those of a technical institution. Like, buddy, that's not a wizard university, that's a wizard trade school. You can't just slap university student culture on top of trade school pedagogy. It doesn't work like that – the one emerges from the other!

[theblossomingofluigi]

Being the only plumber in the Darklands can be too much. Time to train the next generation of koopa plumbers at Luigi’s Plumbing School.

[phoenixyfriend]

Sliiightly unrelated, and I absolutely don’t mean this condescendingly (and I don’t mean to keep bothering you either, feel free to ignore ofc) — I’m just in the dark. When you say ‘Trade work’ and ‘learn a trade’… what do you mean by a trade? The only thing that comes to mind with ‘trade’ is being a plumber, woodworker, etc but I’m pretty sure that’s not what you meant ahejdydj

It is! Due to the push for young people to go to college and get jobs that utilize those degrees, the United States has actually seen a concerning decrease across the decades of people who are qualified to do trade work such as plumbers and electricians, etc. As a result, the population in those trades is aging quickly, and we are anticipating that there won't be enough people to do those jobs very soon. A lot of them are nearing retirement age. Thanks to that demographic shift, young people entering those trades are a very high demand, and in many areas, the pay for such a job can be like 50,000 a year, which can be a solid living wage on par with something like teaching. And in most cases, the apprenticeships are paid, which is definitely a consideration for people who don't want to deal with student loans.

@thisarenotarealblog, any input?

[eretzyisrael]

Source

[wannawrite999]

[ahedderick]

Vo-Tech school

Ok, so the fact the older highschool students can attend a tech school to learn trades instead of doing their last two years of hs is great; the fact that they cover electric, HVAC, auto, carpentry, cosmetology, and more, is awesome. The fact that my daughter had a great senior year and faced virtually no harassment or difficulty for being a girl in electrical is wonderful. But the payoff.

The payoff, for me. Is sitting an a chilly, boring auto dealership waiting room, waiting for a routine service appointment, with my dear daughter. A waiting room that is graced by a flatscreen playing endless (aggravating) HGTV home-reno shows. As I am trying to focus on my book, my cute, sweet, teenage daughter erupts, snarling, "WHY the #$%&#$^% did he DO THAT - he didn't shut the electric off at the breaker box before he started? Why would? Doesn't he? AAAAUGH!"

I'm. dying. the sheer entertainment value. Of seeing a Childe get so wroth over (a very legitimate) electrical issue. Aaaaaaah!

[oomox]

women/dykes/gnc ppl in the trades: what has ur experience been like? I’m considering going to trade school but I’m slightly apprehensive. I’ve worked in kitchens on and off for the past 6 years and how male-dominated it is can get me pretty down so I’m wondering how the trades compare

[newyorkthegoldenage]

Graduation (?), Harlem trade school, 1927.

Photo: James van der Zee via the Howard Greenberg Gallery

[p-sheisty]

Guess who got accepted into college...

ME! RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHH! 💯💯🦅🦅🦅🦅🦅🦅🦅🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🗣️🗣️🗣️🗣️🗣️

[medusinestories]

I answered one of these the other day, but some options were missing and it didn't feel inclusive enough towards non-US people and people who didn't do university studies so...

"Still studying" = I am pursuing studies in a school (of any kind) at the moment or have enrolled to start soon.

And because these things are Complicated worldwide, please consider:

* high school: a school where you get a general education in a variety of subjects until approx. age 18; graduating from a school like allows you to enroll at university. This includes diplomas such as GCE A-Levels, baccalaureat, Abitur, Matura, etc.

** trade / vocational / technical school: may be an alternative to high school or something done after high school instead of university to learn a trade/craft; when you graduate, you are qualified for a job in the field you studied. Universities may not let you enroll or may ask you to do preparatory classes if you have this type of diploma.

*** Bachelor's degree: a degree equivalent to 3-4 years of university studies. If your diploma is not called a Bachelor but you studied for that long at a university or equivalent institution, choose this.

**** Master's degree: a ~2-3 year degree that complements a Bachelor's degree. If your diploma is not called a Master but you studied for 5+ years total at university or equivalent institution, or got extra uni-level qualifications after your first university degree (but not a PhD/MD), choose this.

[misforgotten2]

Television? It'll never catch on, just another one of those nerdy technogizmos you hear about.

Popular Mechanics April 1953

[opspro2005]

I've got two degrees from Purdue University (BA in Education and an MBA from the Krannert School of Management, now renamed for our beloved former school President and Indiana Governor Mitch Daniels), but when anyone asks me for career advice, I always tell them to go to a trade school and learn auto repair, HVAC repair/installation, plumbing, electrical, etc. Those skills are fading fast since government schools stopped teaching. Kids that learn a valuable, marketable skill will almost always start their work-life with less debt, and will end up making more money than the typical college grad of the 2020's and up.

[haveyouever-polls]

Have you ever been to trade school?

[ilona-mushroom]

Hvac/r technician in training p.2

[ahedderick]

Zap!

   I have posted about my daughter choosing the Career Center (Votech) over regular high school for her senior year. She is in the electrical program, and very happy the the teacher and the things she’s learning. She comes home several times a week with pix on her phone so I can see the outlets/switches/panel box that she wired during the day. 

(aside: her panel box looks neater and more meticulous than any professionally installed one I’ve ever seen)

   She also spent a couple of weeks grumbling her way through an online certification class. Then last week she came home and showed me a card. My. My baby. My baby is OSHA CERTIFIED!!!  This is causing an abundance of smile crinkles at the corners of my eyes.

[religion-is-a-mental-illness]

By: Preston Cooper

Published: May 8, 2024

Key Points

This report estimates return on investment (ROI) — how much college increases lifetime earnings, minus the costs of college — for 53,000 different degree and certificate programs.

Bachelor’s degree programs have a median ROI of $160,000, but the payoff varies by field of study. Engineering, computer science, nursing, and economics degrees have the highest ROI.

Associate degree and certificate programs have variable ROI, depending on the field of study. Two-year degrees in liberal arts have no ROI, while certificates in the technical trades have a higher payoff than the typical bachelor’s degree.

Nearly half of master’s degree programs leave students financially worse off. However, professional degrees in law, medicine, and dentistry are extremely lucrative.

Around a third of federal Pell Grant and student loan funding pays for programs that do not provide students with a return on investment.

Executive Summary

In recent years, young Americans have expressed more skepticism about the financial value of higher education. While prospective students often ask themselves if college is worth it, this report shows the more important question is when college is worth it.

This report presents estimates of return on investment (ROI) for 53,000 degree and certificate programs ranging from trade schools to medical schools and everything in between. I define ROI as the increase in lifetime earnings that a student can expect when they enroll in a certain degree program, minus the costs of tuition and fees, books and supplies, and lost earnings while enrolled. My preferred measure of ROI accounts for the risk that some students will not finish their programs.

This report updates FREOPP’s previous research on ROI, utilizing new data from the U.S. Department of Education’s College Scorecard.

The findings show that college is worth it more often than not, but there are key exceptions. ROI for the median bachelor’s degree is $160,000, but that median belies a wide range of outcomes for individual programs. Bachelor’s degrees in engineering, computer science, nursing, and economics tend to have a payoff of $500,000 or more. Other majors, including fine arts, education, English, and psychology, usually have a smaller payoff — or none at all.

Alternatives to the traditional four-year degree produce varied results. Undergraduate certificates in the technical trades tend to have a stronger ROI than the median bachelor’s degree. However, many other subbaccalaureate credentials — including associate degrees in liberal arts or general education — have no payoff at all. Field of study is the paramount consideration at both the baccalaureate and subbaccalaureate levels.

The ROI of graduate school is also mixed. Professional degrees in law, medicine, and dentistry tend to have a strong payoff, often in excess of $1 million. However, nearly half of master’s degree programs have no ROI, thanks to their high costs and often-modest earnings benefits. Even the MBA, one of America’s most popular master’s degrees, frequently has a low or negative payoff.

The report introduces a new metric — the mobility index — to quantify the aggregate financial impact of each degree or certificate program. The mobility index multiplies each program’s ROI by the number of students it enrolls, thus rewarding programs for both financial value and inclusivity. Bachelor’s degrees in nursing and business administration dominate the top ranks of the mobility index.

Finally, the report estimates how much federal government funding flows to programs that leave students with no ROI. Around 29 percent of federal Pell Grant and student loan dollars over the last five years were used at programs that leave students with a negative ROI. The results point to a role for federal policymakers in improving the ROI of higher education.

While ROI should not be the only consideration for students approaching the college decision, the ROI estimates presented in this report can help students and their families make better choices regarding higher education. The estimates may also be of interest to other stakeholders, including policymakers, researchers, journalists, and institutions.

The full ROI estimates for undergraduate programs are available here. The full ROI estimates for graduate programs are available here.

[ Continued... ]

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The article includes an interactive graph which allows you to choose from various majors and find the ROI. Some samples.

Controversial opinion: While there may be an argument to waiving or subsidizing college loans for courses that strongly benefit society, no program with a negative ROI should ever be given loan forgiveness or federal funding.

If you want to study Ancient Mesopotamian Interpretive Dance - or even more uselessly, Gender Studies - for your own pleasure and enjoyment, that's your business. And your financial responsibility; the bill for that resides with you. As far as society and our tax dollars are concerned, forgiving that loan or funding that course is just setting fire to money.

Reminder that you may be better off at a trade school. Courses are often shorter, more targeted and cheaper, so you end up working quicker, earning money more rapidly and have a lower debt that's paid off sooner.