#Tmagp episode 13 spoilers

[stuck-in-the-puter]

So, Sam was gifted and went to the magnus institutes gifted kid program, they didn't want him and... Now nobody is left. He said that nobody is left.

Did Jonah Magnus conduct his ritual with the institute in 1999, but with children? As they are more easily scared? And took those who wouldn't be missed, but Sam would have been? HNNGH??

[cirrus-grey]

A theory:

Category: What caused this incident?

Category 1: Direct interference from the OIAR or one of its affiliates. (Bonzo, Needles, the person who reanimated Arthur Winstead)

Category 2: The location where it happened was marked. (Guy who turned into a tree, the charity shop, the liminal architecture)

Category 3: The victim walked into it on their own. (Violinist, dice guy, finance app guy)

Rank: What was the result of this incident?

Rank A: Net positive. There will be a price to pay. (RedCanary is the only A)

Rank B: Net negative. There is a benefit to reap. (Bonzo, Needles, dice guy, finance app guy, horror movie guy...)

Rank C: Net neutral. This incident balanced itself. (Guy that turned into a tree, violinist, charity shop)

Combined categories have more than one cause. RedCanary (23) went to a marked location, and chose to investigate the symbols they found. Gordon (23) chose to investigate the corpse, but was also affected by the cliffside location.

Combined ranks balance differently depending on whose perspective you take. Harriet (BC) was terrified of her reanimated husband, but Arthur had a balanced experience between being reanimated and losing parts of himself. Daria (BC) had a negative experience with Ink5oul, but balanced their own cost/benefit relationship with the tattoo. RedCanary (AB) had nothing but negatives after going to the Institute... but something else benefited from it.

-

Two notes:

1) Both dice guy and finance app guy successfully balanced their experiences as long as they rode the catastrophe curve between loss and profit. It was only when they tried to break the cycle that the final (deadly) negative blow came. This contrasts with the violinist, who reaped the benefits and paid the price willingly into old age.

2) The trailer with Sam's job interview was marked as Category 1, Rank B.

[witchinatree]

making a list of my favorite quote/ones that stuck with me from each season 1 episode because i feel like it

(i'm starting this after episode 4 but it will be a WHILE before i post it)

episode 1: "bones are a lie peddled by Big Milk" - alice

i love this one because it's a great introduction to alice i think. also it radiates spiral so i hope we get avatar alice not dead alice (isnt there a podcast called alice isnt dead?)

episode 2: "If I wanted to clear the canvas, I would have used turpentine." - statement

this one was just fucking powerful and caught me so off guard like 😶

episode 3: "What would I do without her?" - statement

the norris statement <3 it feels like martin asking what he would do without jon which makes mag200 a lot sadder and i love them

episode 4: "Perhaps you shall prove a stronger will than I, and will yet find it within yourself to destroy this hungry thing of wood and cat-gut." - statement

augustus sighting #1 and we immediately get jonah magnus expressing that it may be possible for gwen bouchard unknown family member to overcome the eye's hunger spooky violin

episode 5: "Voyeur needs to be seen to be believed." - statement

i feel like this one is pretty reflective of how the seasons gonna go? like if you explain the events of tma (mag200 specifically) no one's gonna believe you, it must be seen to be believed!! and also seen!! like the eye!!!

episode 6: "Not sca- This isn’t some poxy blood test, some little pinprick, this is hundreds, thousands of razor sharp points pushing into your flesh." - needles

i love needles so much and i thought this was really funny because it was like "you dont find me scary!! what the fuck!!!" just kind of toddler michael energy

episode 7: "It’s not like we’re wrestling with tape recorders and manila folders." - celia

STOP IT. celia you can't say that you just cannot!!!!!! you Know™ too much maam i cant with you

episode 8: "Pleasure to meet you both. I’m Gerry!"

RAGHHHHH OH MY GOD GERRY!!!! i love him so much and idk how to handle him being alive in the tmagp universe!! gertrude too but idk we got so much of her in tma and not nearly enough of gerry

episode 9: "And honestly, it’s kind of compelling by this point." - sam

they got him 😔😔 the horrors got sam 😔😔 also i found this to be an interesting contrast to jon's heavy resistance in season 1 like he was being compelled but he wasn't going to let anyone know that vs sam "its kinda compelling to trauma dump on this paperwork :]" how is he somehow even more victim material

episode 10: "Gosh you’re sexy, here’s a twenty for your trouble.” - alice

does this count as a quote if shes also quoting what she thinks sam should say? idk anyway i love her i would say that to her if given the chance and it was very silly. i will not be addressing bonzo i am scared.

episode 11: "...Thank you, Alice" - gwen

dyhard dyhard dyhard dyhard dyhard. okay also, the way she CRUMBLED at the idea of anyone doing anything nice for her please someone give her a hug and let it be ME. this series is tossing me back and forth between sam & alice (what is their ship name) and dyhard but this put me back to dyhard

episode 12: "You know it's rude to have absolutely no game?" - alice

she's so fucking funny i need her to be okay so badly!!!! i don't think even tim made me laugh as much as she makes me chuckle and this one really got me. it's hard to write such a comedic character in a podcast since you only have the voice but they really nailed it i adore her

episode 13: "Is it my fault?" - gwen

each of these episodes just reveal a little bit more about how loving and soft gwen is and idk i love her so unbelievably much so seeing that she felt guilt about the bonzo stuff just made her so much more real :(

episode 14: "Christ, they’re in the walls…" - statement

theyre in the walls!!! theyre in the goddamn walls!!!!! anyway that got me because i realized the hole before the statement said it. made more sad than scared tbh

episode 15: "Babies are cool!" - alice this entire interaction between her and sam & celia was so awkward, she is so obvious and i love her anyway

episode 16: "It’s not like I was holding doors open for Mr Bonzo or anything." - gwen my wife is so so so stupid but i adore her AND this gives room for character development. i wish she did not do that though. i love when characters are flawed and have depth but i struggled to get past THIS flaw of hers

episode 17: "Thanks, I guess. Not exactly the same, though, is it?" - celia shes talking TO JON IN THE COMPUTER. SHE KNOWS. i lost my damn mind i love her i love her. get the gay people out of the puter please queen

episode 18: "Why would I need to talk to you? Your work is satisfactory. Unless you have a work-related issue I could assist you with?" - lena solidified my opinion that lena is the best boss to ever have, i adore her and i would want to work for her if she wasn't the boss of Creepy Establishment #1

episode 19: "You’re going to throw it in the fishtank, aren’t you?" - alice colin's behavior is like really worrying BUT i'm glad he's back. i was not convinced he was still alive

episode 20: "I suppose it’s too late for remorse, isn’t it? And why should I be sorry? This is what I deserve!" - ink5oul/statement they reminded me of jon a lot, like especially his season 3/4 transformation when he doesn't quite know everything but he knows he isn't who he was in season 1 anymore, i hope we see more of their life and they can be helped :(

episode 21: [Tape Recorder Bites Ink5oul] - audio description i know it's not technically a quote but this is just so fucking funny. why does it have teeth. what does this mean for the lore. holy shit.

episode 22: "Jonathan Sims and Martin Blackwood" - celia. knawing at the walls of my enclosure i am so not okay. i'm not okay. wtf. wtf. wtf. they're real. wtf.

episode 23: "I had a favorite mug. It said “love you, bitch” and had a picture of a drunk dog on it." - alice. okay i just love this entire interaction because gwen got to open up a little bit and my dyhard heart is so full

episode 24: "I am told that children like me, and I’ve always held the opinion that the world would be a better place if everyone just thought more." - basira. once again this whole interaction was so fun but like idk i loved hearing basira somewhat happy and in a safe place :] my wife <3

episode 25: " I am trying to help, to save us from this goddamned fucking nightmare machine!" - colin. MAN I REALLY WAS ROOTING FOR YOU!!! I WAS SO CONFIDENT YOU WEREN'T GONNA DIE!!!! it's over

episode 26: "I was worrying for a moment that you were Magnussing." - alice. MAGNUSSING BEING CANON MADE ME SAY IT EVEN MORE I'VE SAID IT LIKE TWICE ALREADY

episode 27: "You didn’t tell me the room was labelled, “Archivist.”" - celia. oooooh somebody's got TRAUMAAAAA LMAO

episode 28: "So you’re telling me you know nothing about an OIAR external contract being found with the bodies of two tattooed thugs who met rather grisly ends?" - TREVOR HERBERT???? anyway. ink5oul mention!!!!! i hope they stop killing people it's really rude

episode 29: "Alice, er… we’ve got to talk. It’s important." - teddy. i knew it was over for him but i didn't think it was gonna be THIS bad??? bye babe i guess??? 😭

episode 30: how do i even pick. the whole fucking episode. i can't. i am in a state of shock. i need to lay down for 30 years.

[spirallingdark]

DARRIEN? THE SAME DARRIEN AS IN EPISODE 13? ANOTHER AU VERSION OF HIM?

[murderandcoffee]

both of alice's parents are dead?

what happened to them

was it mr. bonzo

[herbertp]

TMAGP 13 Reactions <3

CELIA HAS A BABY???? That’s who jack is???? Huh????

The Magnus institute was the first one that doesn’t want Sam 😭😭😭

He got cursed by the institute 😭😭😭

INCHIDENT AT WORK 👀👀👀👀

Alice’s parents are dead, poor darling

Weird question to ask someone on a first date Celia? Why are we bringing work talk into this??

Also I love lore dumps <3

THE BONZO SONG IN THE BACKGROUND OF THE CONFRONTATION

I HATE BONZO SO MUCH

we are managing the bad guys

OKAY BUT GWEN AND LENA ARE GIVING BIG JON AND ELIAS VIBES LIKE IK GWEN HAS THE LAST NAME BUT SHES SUCH A JON PARALLEL “he can read?” Her annoyance with Alice paralleling his annoyance with Martin- like the underlying care is there in the same way and the way that Lena rejected giving Gwen anymore information is such an Elias thing to do. She wants gwen to get the info on her own and definitely has nefarious motives

Desolation avatar?

The guy in the statement is giving Oliver from Saltburn vibes idek why

It is odd how his monologue is monologuing? Like when it’s text for these statements it makes sense to me, and in TMA it worked because of Jon’s compelling, but where the heck is this guy getting the monologue from?

Or maybe this guy was cursed by dice guy?

This guy would love Icarus fr

That statement was weird as heckity heck but at least it wasn’t Bonzo :)

Sam not being comfortable talking about it??? Huh??? I mean it’s super fair but is he really going to push her away??? Alice is pretty much your only friend

Treason’s bussing and fire

[elijasz]

Omg Alice is JEALOUS. She's trying to play unbothered but it is NOT working, girl!

[cygnus-art]

I can't believe the word 'bussin'' came out of Alice Dyer's mouth

[torkhin]

…so I’ve made some connections

(spoilers for all of TMA and TMAGP (as of Episode 15))

Lady Mowbray seems to have a lot of visual similarities to depictions of Scylla from Greek mythos. A woman of violent power with hounds at her hips and a taste for human flesh. The resemblance is uncanny, even with the added flavor of her being a capital-L Lady.

It’s interesting to me to see how the “fear powers” we’ve been introduced to so far in Protocol’s universe seem to have connections with Odyssey antagonists.

- Lady Mowbray aligns with Scylla

- The Sea (the Vast/Buried amalgamation from Ep. 11) aligns with Poseidon/the ocean (or possibly the Sirens)

- Mr. Bonzo aligns with Polyphemus

- The tree from Ep. 3 and the snakes from Ep. 14 align with Circe

- Needles seems to align well with Charybdis

- The starving crowd from Ep. 8 aligns with the Lotus Eaters (or possibly the Sirens)

Heck, even the Man on the Screen from Ep. 5 could align with the Oracle and the traveling merchant (responsible for the violin in Ep. 4 and (probably) the dice in Ep. 9) could align with Hermes (though I would hesitate to call either the Oracle or Hermes antagonists). Which leaves Ink5oul, the volunteers in Ep. 7, and the gambling app from Ep. 13 without any solid equivalents.

To be fair, I think basing all of TMAGP’s antagonists on a single epic may be too small-scale and isn’t enough for a solid theory, but the connections are interesting to dissect 👀

[wyvspike]

123 TMAGP (CAT#) Theory

So I haven't seen my theory about how the CAT# works on here so I'm not sure if anybody else has noticed this but I figured I should share! I'm pretty sure that whether a statement is labelled 1-2-3 defines what kind of content is paranormal in the episode.

EDIT: Spoilers below the cut

Here's my spreadsheet ordered by CAT# ("code" in the last column):

I noticed that when I put the statements in order of "code", the main focus of each episode had something in common. Looking at statements coded "1" I noticed that they all had to do with a person. Episode 6 -- Needles, Episode 10 and 12 -- Bonzo, and episode 1 "reanimation" was the zombie guy. Okay, so statements labelled with a 1 seem to have something to do with people.

Next set, the 2s. Episode 5 -- the cinema. Episode 7 -- Hilltop Centre. Episode 8 -- Pennine Tower. These episodes all have to do with place that are paranormal by nature.

Finally, the 3s: episode 2 -- a tattoo. Episode 4 -- the slaughter violin. Episode 9 -- bone dice. Episode 13 -- the app. These episodes all have an "artefact" of some kind, whether that be a physical object or something literally tattooed into someone's body, that doesn't seem to matter. It's some kind of thing or object.

Of course, as we've noticed, CAT#s have appeared as 1 / 2 / 3, but also as groups of numbers, such as 23 in episodes 1 and 11, and on the Klaus spreadsheet as 12 and 13. This indicates that statements with multiple types of paranormal presences can have multiple IDs. In the case of episode 1 "transformation," the Magnus Institute is the paranormal place, and the box might be the object. In episode 11, the graveyard and the tattoo are the two major appearances.

Here's my spreadsheet with who / where / what

I just thought it was cool! And the episodes seem to align with my theory the majority of the time (the only one i'm mildy uncertain about is episode 3, because that implies that the reason the guy turned into a tree was because of the place but it's been a while since i listened to that episode so maybe it makes sense lol).

[trans-jon-rights]

Let's adress the case numbers in TMAGP !

Spoiler warning up to episode 19

Here are all the cases by categories and ranks :

CAT 1 :

MAGP 1 (Case 1) : 'Some of him' // RBC

MAGP 6 : Needles // RB

MAGP 10 : Bonzo // RB

MAGP 12 : Bonzo // RB

MAGP 14 : Snakes // RB

MAGP 15 : Lady Mowbray // RB

MAGP 16 : Ink5oul // RB

CAT 2 :

MAGP 18 : Corpse talking // RC

MAGP 19* : Newton's science project

MAGP 1 (Case 2)* : Red Canary // RAB

MAGP 3 : Guy who becomes a tree // C

MAGP 5 : Voyeur // RB

MAGP 7 : Charity shop // RC

MAGP 8 : Brutalist Architecture // RBC

MAGP 11* : 'The deep will care for his bones' // RC

CAT 3 :

MAGP 17 : Weirdly successful Double // RC

MAGP 1 (Case 2)* : Red Canary // RAB

MAGP 2 : Tattoo // RB

MAGP 4 : Murder Violin // C

MAGP 9 : Murder Dices // RB

MAGP 11* : 'The deep will care for his bones' // RC

*The Red Canary Case and the 'Deep' Case are labelled as CAT23, so I put them in both CAT 2 and CAT3

MAGP 13 : Murder Crypto // RB

MAGP 19* : Newton's science project

Okay ? Okay.

*MAGP 19 is labelled as CAT13, so I put it in both 1 and 3.

So now I think we can say each category have a thing :

CAT1 is for 'living' manifestations (that used to be human/animal or not)

CAT2 is for specific places (MAGP 3 is a garden and MAGP 5 is the cinema)

CAT3 is for artefacts/non-living manifestations.

About MAGP 1 (Case 2) and MAGP 11, I think they are in both categories because it got to do with both. For Red Canary it was both the Institute and the box he took from there, and for the other it was both the tattoo and the ocean/cliff (unsure if its one or the other).

You could argue that MAGP 5 got more to djo with the movie than the cinema, and I would agree ! However, I think the movie is also part of the cinema, in some way. The whole place was creepy, and if it was only the movie, it could have been done with simply a DVD or something. The fact that it was in a cinema was intentional.

For the ranks, I think it's pretty much self explanatory : RA to RC to categorise the levels of danger.

What is concerning about it however is that :

A) The Institute is ranked AB, which is the highest on this list for now.

B) All 'living' manifestations are ranked B or below, which means that our heroes would be pretty fucked should they encounter a rank A.

C) Some cases (namely, MAGP 3 and 4) are simply labelled 'C' without it being an actual rank. I could pass it off as a typo, but were talking about Jonathan Sims here, folks.

Another theory I have is that the O.I.A.R only handle B-ranked Externals, and eliminate those whose rank is higher. We'll need to verify that once the next External turns up, but until then I'm running with that. Bonzo and the Lady are both indicating that.

The case of MAGP 17 is a bit more tricky. My current theory (see the final comments on this post) is that whatever caused it was the therapy room the subject was in.

MAGP 1.1 and MAGP 18 are a bit similar in the kind of manifestations I think, as both has to do with dead people talking, though the MAGP 1.1 one is seemingly more dangerous.

Here, that was my rambling. Have a good one <3

[cirrus-grey]

TMAGP 1: Darla

TMAGP 2: Daria

TMAGP 7: Dianne

TMAGP 13: Darrien

I know this is nothing but it feels like Something

(Even if the something is just Jonny and Alex poking fun at us for all the Michael/Mike/Mikaele jokes)

[bonzos-number-1-fan]

What R# Means: The ABC's of Fear.

The grading system used by the OIAR is one of TMAGP's more central mysteries. The show is rife with administrative work that's obfuscated even to the employees that assign each case's rating.

I have my own theory about DPHW that I think is proving more and more likely each episode, but as of yet I don't think a comprehensive theory on CAT# or R# has been given. CAT# is still proving a hard to crack but I now think I can take a strong stab at the meaning behind R#.

Spoilers for TMAGP 1-7 below the cut.

For the people who aren't keeping close track of this I'll break down how those terms are used. Each incident the OIAR assesses is assigned a case number in the following format CAT#R#DPHW. CAT, short for Category, is assigned a value of 1, 2, 3, or any combination of those three digits (12, 13, etc.). R, short for Rank, are graded C, BC, B, AB, A, or S (potentially AS but it's not come up). For DPHW each letter is a category itself and replaced with a digit from 0-9 for its grading. So there are 6 separate statistics that the OIAR uses to assess each incident.

If I'm correct about DPHW it's a ranking based on the qualities the incident presents. That's obviously very valuable information. Because of how CAT# is formatted we know it's likely three non-mutually exclusive facets. I had some idea about what it could be but it's proving quite tricky to nail down.

However it's R# that is the topic of today's post and it's something I've had a few ideas on before. We know can assume from its formatting it's a linear scale. C is the "worst/weakest/etc." while S is the "best/strongest/etc.". Initially, I thought that R# was simply a straight forward ranking of potency or threat. Higher the rank, spookier the incident. Very early on that seemed like a strong idea. It was quickly disproven but I then had the idea that Rank was instead the scale of the effect. Higher the rank, wider the incident. Also quickly disproven.

Now I'm thinking it's graded on how hard it is to deny an incident's supernatural nature. Simply put, an outside observer can more readily find a believable rational explanation for an incident of lower rank than of higher rank. Either via their own conviction to believe the supernatural isn't real, or based on the story the OIAR cooks up to explain it.

For that to make sense it needs to tick two boxes. It needs to be able to be pre-assigned to an incident as all CAT#R#DPHW's seem to be, and it needs to be useful information to track. As they're operating under the assumption that CAT#R#DPHW's can be pre-assigned then they're operating under the assumption that each type of incident is relatively stable. Meaning that the likelihood that it can be rationally explained is also relatively stable. Tick 1. There is also a really strong reason for the OIAR to use this as a grade. They're the Office of Incident Assessment and Response, the Response Department might be dead but it was a part of the initial plan. Grading each incident on how likely they are to cause concern should the details go public is very useful for deciding how to approach any given case. Tick 2.

It being useful is all well and good but it does also need to have some evidence so let's look at our highest ranked incident to this point: CAT23RAB2155 - Transformation (Eye) -/- Trespass. A man grew eyes over his body. That's pretty tricky to explain away as a medical mystery. On the other end of the scale we've got CAT2RC1157 - Dolls (Watching), or CAT2RC3338 -Agglomeration (Miscellany) -/- Congregation†. Just a creepy doll and some crappy antiques. I think of all the incidents the one that's the least immediate fit is CAT3C7494 - Collection (Blood) -/- Musical. Most of that incident is very easy to slot in here. "It's just a violin that has sharp strings, so what?". But it's also a violin that made some people eat some other people. However, mass hysteria events do get reported every so often IRL and do have a very long history. So in the grand scheme of things I don't think the details of the event are necessarily all that outlandish. It's really in the realms of urban legend and witch hunts than it is definitive proof of the supernatural.

With all that out the way this is the broad strokes of how I could see this breaking down. C ranks are things you can entirely write off as urban legends, freak accidents, and stress. Potentially things that might not need any covering up at all. I think the majority of events people could entirely say didn't happen will end up in C. "Of course the doll wasn't watching you, dolls aren't alive". B ranks are things that are harder to entirely discount as things that happened but are themselves still relatively easy to excuse as mundane. "Sure, the circumstances of that blogger's disappearance are strange but people go missing all the time, doesn't mean a monster did it". We don't have any A ranks but given the AB rank we do have I'd say A's are things in which no rational explanation can account for it, and as such require more extensive covering up, if it indeed happened. "Okay, maybe the supernatural is real because people don't just grow eyes like that".

As I mentioned early, an S rank does exist. We've not seen this attributed to anything in the show yet and so it might prove to be a special case. However on Klaus' sheet‡ from the ARG it's attributed to an interesting incident. A CAT1RS[No DPHW] with the note Mr. B. And, well, if you know, you know.

From Klaus' sheet we also know that the higher ranked incidents happen less often than lower ones and that idea generally tracks with what we know of TMP and TMA. The supernatural tends to be something you can explain away. It often is explained away. Incredibly overt manifestations are a rarity.

This one will be a slow burn to see if it bears out. Much like with DPHW's it's only really interesting when things go against the theory. I'm not as certain on this one as I am the DPHW theory but I do think it's got legs with our current data.

† This did also feature people who seemed to erase their physical features from your memory after you interacted with them. This isn't something I mention in the theory because it's not taken into account by the header and case number. A major flaw in the OIAR's methodology here is that all incidents are only ever one thing. So the case number is based solely on the presence of lots of miscellaneous objects, rather than the mind-wiping people carrying them.

‡I have made an incident master doc here, containing all the current cases, their CAT#'s, R#'s, DPHW's, etc. It has about as much information on each as I think is reasonable, including who narrates it, a link to its episode, and any other relevant notes, as well as headers for incidents we didn't hear. Additionally it also contains the Klaus sheet (German and English) and links to it when an incident matches. It will be updated each episode after the episode is publicly available.

[theanxiousghostartist]

A collection of theories and speculation from TMAGP 13

SPOILERS BELOW

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Celia: It's interesting that (assuming she is telling the truthee about Jack/his age) that she would have chosen the name Jack for her baby. Jack is an old nickname for John. I know names aren't really a big factor in the show (Jonathan Sims took his name for the main character of TMA lol), but it's still interesting. Also, she mentioned that it had been a few years since she "moved here" but we know that Chester, Norris, and Augustus showed up about a year and a half ago (the first episode mentions a year, but Same mentions in this episode that it had been about 6 months since he got the job). So we have 3 possibilities, assuming that Celia is from TMA and that Chester and Norris are Jon and Martin (and Augustus is probably Magnus):

1. Time works differently. Celia showed up a few years ago, probably 1-2 years before Jon and Martin, therefore time could work differently for Jon and Martin in the computer system.

2. Celia is lying. I don't remember hearing an glitches while she was talking, so this may be unlikely, however, it is possible that Celia showed up around the same time as Jon and Martin and lied about it to Sam to giver her more of a past. In this episode, she said Jack is around a year old, which could fit into this timeline, if Jack was a premie or if Jack came with her either from TMA or he randomly showed up when she arrived.

3. Celia could have just said the time frame wrong. It's possible that Celia could have said a few years, when she actually arrived around a year and a half ago. This would be untrue, but technically not a lie as a year and a half could be counted as 2 years, which could be counted as a few years. It's possible that she did this intentionally or it's possible that she actually thinks it was a few years. Since she was having "a werid time," her memories could be messed up, especially if she traveled from TMA.

Sam's past: Sam said everything started going wrong after the Institute, which eventually landed him at the OIAR. Could this be the Web's doing? We know that the Web has manipulated a future archivist before, with the Web being the first to mark Jon, so it's possible that it's doing the same to Sam.

Lena & Gwen's discussion: Lena says that her group is "managing the bad guys" which makes me wonder: Is something else controlling the fears? Did the Web take over? Or did this world just figure out how to deal with the fears?

Personally I think it's either a different entity entirely controlling the fears/keeping them in line or the Web (we already know that the Web has manipulated most of the fears before, with Gertrude's/Agnes's bond, Jon, the eyepolcolypse, ect).

[anthroposeen]

tmagp 13 relisten notes!!

there are spoilers for episode 13 below the cut!

celia:

- admits to sam that she asked alice for advice and general information about him. this implies she has a pretty friendly relationship with alice (evidenced by alice buying her a mocha) and seems relatively unthreatened by her past with sam so far.

- "no one, im mysterious" -> evidence for her not being from this dimension, if no one can give a lot of information about her

- reveals jack is her baby! (not followed by a glitch)

- says the past couple years "since the move" (between dimensions?) were weird for her

- believes the incidents they work with are real, and im certain shes in the same boat as the audience rn, trying to categorize them with background knowledge that isnt accurate anymore

sam:

- easy to make blush, doesnt know how cute he is, is an overachiever, obsessive, a but repressed, nosy, kind of a recluse, and very easy to wind up

- gifted kid syndrome poster child; he seems to view being turned away by the magnus institute as the beginning of his rejection streak (not admitted to oxford, didnt get first, got fired from his legal firm). i think this will be a major point in his motivations and a fear of rejection and need for validation is going to drive him to receive the greatness he wants (and believes he has earned). i can already see a corruption arc brewing for him, poor thing

- did NOT tell celia about his experiences in the institute or what his "incident" was (referring to lena's interview where she asked him what the worst thing he's seen/experienced was). this isnt super sketchy considering its a first date, but is interesting since he was the one who wanted "all the baggage" out early

- he doesn't want to accept that the incidents are real, but i think he does believe in them. he brought the topic up to celia and has asked alice about it before too, so he may be aware that the incidents are real, but is unwilling to fully conceptualize what that means for himself and his world view

- says that alice doesnt love the idea of him seeing celia, which means he may have picked up on her feelings for him

gwen:

- feels guilty over instigating the mr.bonzo incident -> whats really interesting is that she doesnt threaten to quit or not be involved, she accepts that she gas another email to look through and another external to interact with, but it seems to upset her

- she asks lena why this (externals and mr bonzo murder) is happening, implying that she can stomach the work if its for a reason

lena:

- gives gwen the ABCs of genre-awareness:

- this dimension also has "opposing forces- most of them meaning to be harmful.

- these "forces" need to be "balanced" and controlled in order to maintain order in the world/system -> still working off of a smirke-esque theory that retaining balance will keep the world secure. i dont know if she means balance between forces of good and evil or forces in the supernatural sense

- says the OIAR is managing the bad guys, as in monitoring their actions and directing externals to "balance" things

alice:

- actually offended that sam doesnt want to share information with her and isnt having a good time knowing sam and celia are seeing each other

- tells sam "he cant prove anything" about the cases being real, but doesnt tell him hes wrong

- i would fling myself from a sky scraper for you, miss dyer, but please never say bussin or fire again

- "stop trying to make an impact" -> the more she tells sam to cut the x-files shit out, the more she stops protesting his suspicions. her scolding has gone from "nothing is going on, chill out" to "sure, theres a conspiracy, but we are paid to ignore it"

-

alice/sam's past:

- dated at uni, previously stated they were together for several years. it seems to have been a decent split since they stayed in contact afterward.

- sam was there for her when her parents died, but lost contact after

- she contacted him w the OIAR job details after he made an exceptionally pathetic vague post

incident:

- centered around gambling and self harm to achieve success- this draws ties to episode 2 (self harm) and episode 9 (luck). i expect this is more aligned with ep 9, as the self harm seems to be in the interest of changing his odds/luck, and the incident is primarily about gaining external success, not physical change. though, ep 2 could be a personal experience with ink5oul that is not representative with their "force"

- the narrator of this statement was quick to actively sacrifice his own well being to achieve better luck, which is a pretty stark contrast to other people who looked to harm other people in their own interest (violin guy and dice guy, i forgot their names sorry!!)

- zorro trader may be a reoccurring organization in relation to gambling

- the narrators options for his debt were to either pay it back or have a personal adjustment, once he completes the voicemail he is transferred to the adjustments apartment, which was not an option on the original call log and something he did not request

- he is promptly adjusted :)

- i think this could be related to the theme of keeping balance, since the incident narrator claims it isnt wrong to play with the loophole, and it ends with him getting what he owes, which is a nice connection to lena's explanation of the OIAR's purpose

glitches/lies:

- "im happy you're happy", alice (she is not happy that sam is with celia!!)

extra comments:

- i really didnt expect an explanation of the OIAR and its position in this so early, and im surprised lena was the one to reveal it. this exposes that shes pretty open with the staff she feels are on a need-to-know basis, and it also changes my expectations for how we'll come across a big reveal in this series, since information is being given in a more open way

- i think alice and celia definitely know something but in opposing ways- acting as foils to each other with sam (information seeker) in the middle. celia knows about how the fears work in the tma dimension, and alice knows why and what the OIAR are really doing- together, they solve the puzzle that sam is trying to piece together.

[squiddymaru]

TMAGP EPISODE 13 SPOILERS UNDER THE CUT. It's just a lil rant about Alice and Lena in this episode not too in-depth stuff.

Today's episode was really good in my opinion and it touched many strings of my heart. It had a bit of everything: Characters talking about their stories pre-protocol, relationships development, gray revelations, an entertaining case with an intriguing ending, awkward and needed conversations.

I feel very much for Alice, but Sam is doing the right thing by setting boundaries with her. They are friends, but they also can't ignore that they are exes. I understand where Alice is coming from, she wants to know what's happening and have some sense of control over it by faking she doesn't feel affected, but she does. I think Sam knows that she is somewhat still attached to memories (As Teddy suggested as well). He did use the "We use to be" line on her episodes ago to convince her to go with him explore the Institute ruins, hinting that their relationship was stronger than that he had barely formed with Celia. I think Alice thought it would be like that for a while, but wasn't prepared to accept next steps on Sam & Celia's relationship. I hope that now that Celia knows about Sam & Alice's background story, she won't ask Alice about Sam again, too.

(NOTE: I'm seeing people hinting that Celia didn't sound interested in Sam at all? That would be interesting! (And- Sad for Sam) It could be because I'm demiromantic so I've only dated people I'm already friends with for long and I don't know how it sounds like when people are actually meeting in a romantic situation. But now re-reading the scripts, yeah. I'll give you that it could be)

About Lena, and Gwen, I appreciate how Lena doesn't seem to be lying when Gwen asks her stuff, but hides enough to keep her classified stuff under the radar. "We're managing the bad guys", she did admited Gwen had a degree of participation on latest Mr. Bonzo's attack (even if it was logical enough), and did hint that their externals are the non-benevolent forces that she mentions, but do we know more? Do we know why? To keep a "balance", How much has and how often does the OIAR interfere to 'balance' the world? Who's targeting the people that the externals are sent off to? 'The Government' sounds like the answer, but I feel like there's so much more and it's gonna be a WHAT moment when it drops.

Now to read all your posts because I know it's gonna be a wild thursday today. >:)