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sevensoulmates · 7 months ago

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Buddie 7x07 "Ghost of a Second Chance" Meta

So sorry for the delay! This one took me a minute due to life/work stuff happening, but here it is! A doozy! This episode had a lot of parallels with the other characters storylines happening so bear with me here! This is mostly going to be about Eddie.

This episode deals a lot with past trauma, specifically bringing up stuff that some of the characters haven't dealt with in a while or seemingly had already dealt with in the past. Maddie with Doug's abduction, Bobby and the apartment fire, Eddie and Shannon. All of these are re-introduced in this episode, but it's important to note that they are NOT resolved, mostly Bobby and Eddie, and will likely continue into the rest of the season. Maddie reacts the most noticeably to her trauma being triggered, and of the three, she's the only one who has actually managed to work through that trauma from the past, so while it does affect her, it does not cause her to self-destruct like Eddie and most likely Bobby will.

As many of us predicted, we theorized that it was going to get much worse for Eddie before it would get better. And this episode has put Eddie on that path that will likely take him towards rock bottom if Ryan and Tim's interviews and teasers for his 7b arc are to be believed.

The first big parallel to Eddie's storyline is the woman and her baby being abducted by a man with mental health problems who allowed a past trauma with his ex-wife/child to reach a dangerous point. While Eddie's actions in this episode are not placing a woman's life in danger, it does parallel how in pursuit of soothing his own pain, Eddie and this man, are prioritizing their own feelings, over the feelings of a woman stranger (Kim) and an innocent kid.

I was already anticipating many many Shannon call-backs in this episode, but the writers dive in immediately by having Chimney intubate Catherine. This is the same heavy choice Chimeny had to make when Shannon was hit by a car, and Chimney was interim Captain. He had to make a choice to either intubate Shannon, effectively taking away her last chance to say dying words or to not intubate and allow Eddie and Shannon to exchange final words. With Shannon, Chimney does not intubate, but with Catherine, he does. This could possibly indicate the need for Eddie to make different decisions this time around if he wants to survive this new catastrophic plotline.

This was an interesting way for the writers to give us a kind of "speedrun" of introducing us to Marisol a bit more. I know that the ENTIRE fandom has been bugging over the fact that we "hardly know anything about Marisol other than DIY and Nunnery", and now they're giving us more information, but notably it's all very surface-level information. It makes the scene feel like Eddie's trying to get to know her for the first time instead of this being a woman he's been seeing for about six months at this point.

While 7x05 did indicate to us that Eddie is trying to get to know her all over again, it really does drive home how little effort Eddie has put into trying to build a relationship with her, which is then further proved by the rest of the episode. All of this demonstrated very clearly just how little investment Eddie has had in ANY of his relationships after Shannon's death. It's probably supposed to make us think "Oh, that's because he only ever truly loved Shannon!" but in reality, the Eddie-Shannon onscreen relationship was very tumultuous, and they spent most of their relationship (even during their time pre-military) away from each other. All in all, the topic of how well Eddie knows the women he's with, and how much effort/investment he puts into his relationships (including Shannon) are being pulled into question here. And I think it's being done to show the audience that Eddie has only ever dated and married women as a duty and not something he actually does because he wants to be with the women as people. Once again, this includes Shannon.

Before Marisol can even finish her two truths and a lie, Eddie interrupts, starting to dictate the conversation again, and Chris is the one who has to step in, reminding Eddie that this moment is about Marisol. Eddie has been the one to lead his relationships with both Ana and Marisol, almost to the point of steamrolling over them. A similar thing happened in his relationship with Shannon, where Shannon notes that Eddie is always making decisions for them without consulting her, including going to the military, or moving Chris to a new school, etc. and how that was always a giant issue in their relationship. While this moment is not Eddie purposely steamrolling over Marisol, it does show that again, Eddie has a myopic view of relationships with women, where he's constantly trying to steer them towards something that he wants without really letting the woman have any agency. Shannon had to physically leave him in order to get any agency of her own.

Additionally, the choice to have the get to know you game be "two truths and a lie", inherently implies dishonesty, or at least makes us think of lying. And considering that becomes a theme for Eddie this episode and likely in upcoming episodes, it's also indicative of the general theme of not knowing someone and not being honest with them. It could've been "twenty questions" or something not involving purposely lying, but instead it's two truths and lie, and Eddie is now about to be involved in a whole bunch of lies.

I've seen others point out that this line is clearly meant to compare Marisol and Shannon. Shannon, Chris and Eddie had a tradition involving smores, one that Chris and Eddie were trying to keep alive only last season when they visited Shannon's grave. This line is meant to show us that Marisol is not Shannon, and as Eddie actually gets to know her, this is more and more evident. It's no fault of Marisol's, but it's likely what is sticking in Eddie's head, right before he ends up meeting Kim. Eddie, once again dictating what he wants Marisol to be rather than accepting the truth of who Marisol is, exclaims that obviously Marisol has had smores because Shannon loved smores. But Marisol is not Shannon, and Eddie is always comparing his partners to Shannon in unhealthy ways.

While this line is clearly a joke, nothing is done without purpose in TVland, and this is another one of those times where even though Eddie's joking, it's actually telling of how he actually feels. He's already had one foot out the door with Marisol for the last 3-4 episodes, and now it's the smores that makes him say "we can still leave her" because who Marisol is, does not align with who Shannon was. But the thing is, I have a hard time believing that Shannon was even who Eddie truly wanted, at least not without expectation or pressure. Shannon is an Ideal, and no one, not even Shannon herself, can live up to it. No woman is supposed to or can reach this Ideal, because (in my opinion) a woman is not really what Eddie wants deep down in his most hidden of unconscious desires.

"You two aren't going anywhere". Oh, the dramatic irony is killing me here. Because not even a couple of minutes later, Marisol has lost Eddie for good when he sees Kim. The death bells have already been ringing from the very beginning, but this is the final death knell that has been rung. Even if Eddie stays with Marisol through most of this arc, their relationship will end, as will his relationship with Kim.

Eddie and Kim lock eyes and he's reminded of Shannon instantly. Because of that, this relationship is dead before it even begins. A moment later, Christopher calls out "Dad!" just like he did when Shannon and Eddie were on the beach, interrupting Eddie's thoughts.

Marisol notices Eddie acting weird, asks if he's alright, he says he's fine, and she calls him out, asking "is that the truth or a lie?" He promises he's fine, but we as an audience know that's a big ole lie. This has been the case for years, and it's interesting that it's coming at this point in the season. The early half of the season we saw Eddie the "happiest" he's ever been. And I can't help but wonder how much of that was true happiness, and how much of that was just putting off thinking about it. It's easier to lie and say he's fine, that his relationships are fine, that his relationship with Shannon was fine. It's harder to admit the truth, that he's not okay, that his relationships with Marisol and Ana were unhealthy and his relationship with Shannon was the unhealthiest of all. It's easier to place the blame on his unhappiness on missing Shannon, instead of admitting that it's his own choices that are making him unhappy.

Another theme of this episode is internalized biases and misunderstanding the current situation due to being blinded by the past. Maddie misses crucial details of her call with Catherine because she was looking at it with too much bias about her own situation with Doug. Eddie also misremembers his past with Shannon, but instead of recognizing his mistake like Maddie, and trying to look at it objectively, Eddie lets that bias from the past effect his current decisions, which is already resulting in a mistake by cheating with Kim and will likely result in more mistakes the rest of this season.

Maddie heard what she expected to hear. Eddie is seeing in Kim what he expects to see from Shannon. Both lead to really bad outcomes.

Eddie goes back to find Kim/Shannon, and they meet. She looks similar but not really the same (btw, kudos to the makeup team, wow). She has similar facial expressions (nose scrunches, giggles, etc.) and she asks him if he's looking for something specific. And the answer is yes, he's looking for Shannon in Kim, just as he was looking for Shannon in Marisol and Ana.

This is very obviously a sexual innuendo, which is interesting because their first real interaction is showing more of a "sexual" chemistry, than anything really romantic, or soul-connecting. It's a clear harkening back to how Eddie would use sex as a way to stop fights between himself and Shannon. It's also one of Eddie's biggest distancing tools. He used sex to distance himself from Shannon and from Marisol, as an excuse to not address problems, or just simply to not get to know them. And given that Eddie was having sexual dysfunction issues in his last major episode, this is meant to provide a juxtaposition to that. Sort of a "Hey look Eddie couldn't get it up for Marisol the Nun but he can get it up for the Shannon look-alike". On the surface, this might be to show us that Eddie really only has sexual chemistry with Shannon, but if you look below the surface even a little bit, you'll realize that his sexual relationship with Shannon was also deeply dysfunctional, but in its own way.

The answer is no. Eddie does not trust Kim because she's a stranger, but this line is meant to remind us that Eddie very much DID NOT trust Shannon for most of her arc in season 2 and even up until her death. It's a callback to the line in season 2 Merry Ex-Mas where Eddie says he "forgives Shannon but doesn't trust her" and Shannon says something along the lines of "Eddie trusting her enough to have sex with her, but not enough to let her see her own son". Kim is hitting all the lines that are meant to remind Eddie of rose colored "Good times" but are meant to remind us, the audience, of all the issues he had with Shannon.

This moment of Eddie and Shannon on the beach is meant to represent Eddie's "happiest" moment on-screen with Shannon when she was alive. Eddie remembers it that way, as kissing Shannon and finally having his family back together. But in actuality, it was the start of the end for them. Shannon thought she was pregnant, paralleling the time when they accidentally got pregnant as teens and both of them had to put their lives on hold and commit to a marriage that might not have been the ultimate right choice for them. If any of you remember, this is also the moment where Eddie and "signs" and the "universe" are connected for the first time. Eddie asks for a sign, and Shannon says she's pregnant. In my personal opinion, this was supposed to be a sign for Eddie to not get back together with her, given how traumatic it was the first time around, but he ignores it and tries to push down his feelings. "Life is like a vat of chocolate, it pulls you down but it's comfortable". And when Shannon very clearly stated she wanted a divorce, Eddie did not really seem to accept it...and the universe took Shannon away permanently. (Again, I want to reiterate this is all about fiction I'm talking about here not irl, okay? This does not apply to real life) The universe tried to warn Eddie, to bring him a sign, and when he ignored it, as he always does, the universe decided it needed to take Shannon away permanently.

And now here we are again, 6 years later, with Eddie ignoring ALL the signs over and over and over, and setting about down this path with Marisol that literally everyone knows will not make Eddie happy, and what does the universe do? It throws him the biggest wrench it could by bringing someone who looks/acts like Shannon back into his life. Kim was brought in by the universe (the writers) to show Eddie that his relationship with Shannon was not as wonderful and amazing as he remembers it....and he ignores all of the signs yet a-fucking-gain. I get the feeling that this arc with Kim is going to end VERY. VERY. badly for Eddie. I think we should all be preparing ourselves for that.

Eddie is making active duplicitous choices here. He's lying about being in a relationship with someone else, lying about being a single dad. And it's not the first time he's said something like this (see the "taken for now" line in 7x04), further demonstrating how he's always had one foot out the door with Marisol.

I also want to point out that Eddie lying and deceiving Kim and cheating on Marisol is not meant to be the show saying "this is good! this is who Eddie's supposed to end up with!" The writers know how most people feel about cheating. Most people are 100% aware that cheating is morally wrong, and by Eddie making these decisions, they're not supposed to show that Eddie is inherently a cheater or a bad guy. He's acting OOC on purpose. The writers want us to see Eddie lying and cheating and want us to clock that Something is Very Very Very Wrong and that has to do with Eddie's romantic relationships, Shannon, his perception of Shannon, his perception of his past marriage, and his expectations of himself.

We, as an audience, are not supposed to be enjoying this. We're meant to be uncomfortable.

911 is doing something really interesting lately with their pointed use of Full First Names vs. Nicknames. When I heard this my first thought was actually of Ana and how cringe it was to hear her calling Eddie Edmundo all the time. Shannon actually never once called Eddie by his full name. If anything, Eddie calling himself Edmundo here, introducing himself by it, is once again supposed to trigger the audience's "Something Is Wrong Here" mode. I was also going to mention how this is also something a lot of people have felt with Tommy's constant use of "Evan" instead of Buck. Some people like it, some people don't, but everyone can acknowledge that it's odd and unusual.

Even as he's flirting with Kim, talking more about "stimulation", Eddie is holding an "S" for Shannon. I think when Kim told Eddie her name, a sharp K, very far away from the soft S of Shannon, it was a slight shock to him. If her name was something similar like Sherri or Sheila or something, Eddie could've lived in the fantasy more. Her name being Kim momentarily broke the illusion, hence him looking down at the S for Shannon.

Eddie is remembering the first time he slept with Shannon after she came back into his life while he's sitting at the table with Marisol, completely ignoring her. But not only that, as many people have pointed out, he's misremembering. The walls in the background are recent, with the new teal color and his new bed. Shannon's hair is a cross between dark and light, almost like a mix of Kim and Shannon, and--and this one rocked my world--they had sex right side up.

Many have pointed out how it's odd that Eddie and Marisol's sex scene harkened so similarly back to his one sex scene with Shannon, where they both ended up at the tail end of the bed, upside down. People have often discussed Eddie and his upside-down sex as a metaphor for unhealthy sexual connection, for misconnection, and right side up sex to be healthy sex. To find that he is thinking of him and Shannon in his memory of being right side up has been pointed out by others to be yet another example of Eddie's rose-colored memories of his past with Shannon. In his memory, he views his relationship and sexual relationship with Shannon as this Amazing and One of a Kind thing, hence the right-side-up sex, but in reality, it was upside down, it wasn't healthy.

He's looking at his relationship with Shannon through a veil of the present, chock full of regrets, would've/could've/should've's, and two almost-failed relationships. Not to mention that he literally was just having extreme sexual dysfunction with Marisol not even two episodes ago it's very likely that his remembering this passionate, voracious, unquenchable thirst for Shannon is also brought on by the fact that he's having sexual issues with Marisol. It might also be him wanting to remember that he does and did have desire for sex with women...as long as they're Shannon or reminding him of Shannon. This is not at all supposed to be something that is represented as healthy for Eddie, and I don't believe the show is trying to put across that message.

Eddie remembers his sex with Shannon, and when he decided to "bring Shannon home for Christmas". Even in this scene, the focus is not on the two of them as a couple. He doesn't talk about how much he missed her, or how it feels good to be close to her again. He talks about how he wants to reunite her and Christopher. "Santa" in this present day and age is bringing "Shannon" home for Christmas, by bringing Kim into Eddie's life.

Bringing it back to Maddie's storyline, with the Big Bad Kidnapper of this episode. He was encouraged by his sister to move across the country for a fresh start after his wife and baby left him due to his own abusive actions (assumed, but the sister did say they were "afraid of him"). We don't know too much of the details of this man's story, but it does show a clear parallel to Eddie too, with his wife leaving him to move across the country too (though she left their son with Eddie because obviously, Eddie's not abusive like this man). But the man's sister was hoping that this move would mean he would "stop looking for them". Eddie ends up doing the same thing with Shannon metaphorically. He never stops looking for her in all of his romantic relationships, hurting other women like Ana and Marisol, in the process.

The man is so clearly a parallel to Eddie but in the worst most devolved way. Eddie has been seeking out a Mom for Chris for years, even when Shannon was alive. It was never about Shannon, wanting her, loving her, needing her because he's so deeply in love with her. No, it was, and still is, always about the mother she could be for Chris. It's the same thing he did with Ana, and with Marisol. I'm not sure if this thing he's doing with Kim will eventually lead there too, or if it won't make it that far before it gets blown up in his face. But Kim cannot be a new mother for Chris, even if she wants to be. Christopher would clock that she looks like Shannon, and might feel betrayed, like Eddie is actively trying to replace Shannon, which I doubt Christopher would take well. So what is Eddie's endgame here? In my honest opinion, I don't think he has one. I think he's acting on pure emotional hurt, and desperately seeking out a balm, and not considering the consequences of his actions.

Just like that man was hit dead on with the literal consequences with the police, I think Eddie's gonna be hit HARD as a result of these mistakes. I feel like it might be something really bad, possibly involving Christopher. If "isolation" is going to become the thing he might have to contend with Christopher being really really angry with him in whatever way that takes form, and the rest of the firefam not being happy with him either. I think Eddie's going to be going through another arc similar to where he was emotionally in season 3a with the streetfighting arc.

Just how like the man who abducted her was a parallel to Eddie, Catherine herself is also a parallel to Eddie. She's clearly in pain, but she refuses drugs that will make her feel better. She feels she has to stay awake and endure the pain as a comeuppance, similar to how Eddie felt he had to endure his pain like a man because he deserved it. She feels her husband will hate her, just like how Eddie feared Shannon would hate him for what he did. He fears Shannon would never forgive him, but just like Catherine, even worse is the fact that Eddie has yet to ever forgive himself. No matter how many times people tell her it's not her fault, no matter how many times people tell Eddie he's a good father or a good person, they will never believe it. That guilt still rocks them, and for Eddie, it's been the monkey on his back every day LOONNGGG before Shannon even passed. Likely he's been dealing with it from the second he found out he got her pregnant. Even though Catherine's daughter was returned to her, she will still likely feel guilty, just as Eddie's guilt has lingered and festered and turned to rot the longer it's gone unchecked.

It'll only be once Eddie can let go of that guilt, let go of Shannon, and forgive himself, will he ever be able to actually start healing, and making the right choices for himself.

Many people have pointed out how this parallels the scene in 3x03 with Christopher and Eddie coming to Buck's house after the tsunami. That was a moment where Buck was feeling "lost at sea" and Eddie and Chris came in to be his "life raft that gets you home." And now Eddie's the one lost at sea. He thinks he has to find Shannon when really all he really needs is here with Buck and Chris. Eddie and Chris are "late", but eventually, they will find their way home to Buck.

Have y'all ever heard the phrase "where there's smoke, there's fire"? It means that if there's a rumor or something being said about a topic, there must be some back story/truth in it. It's what I point out every time the show "jokes" about Eddie's sexuality or lack thereof to women, Eddie ready to leave Marisol, etc. They're in the script because there's a kernel of truth to them, even if it's still nebulous (or smoky) at the moment.

Additionally, Buck is making a new lasagna recipe (a metaphor for his new found bisexuality and MM relationship with Tommy) and something about it is not working. In the same way that I've been theorizing that there is misalingment in his relationship with Tommy, we're now seeing that lasagna (like in 6x01 where the couch theory was introduced) is yet another metaphor for Buck's relationships. He had 3 at that point in time (as well as 3 failed attempts at lasagna) and now he's here in a new relationship, and something about it isn't working, he just doesn't know what. I'll reiterate, it's not the bisexuality, but rather the person he's in a relationship with. This being told once again to Eddie, in Buck's kitchen, with Chris present, is driving home the point once again.

Eddie, on the other hand, is aligned with Buck. He knew ahead of time to order a pizza for them. This isn't usual, given that Buck's a good cook, and has cooked for Chris and Eddie many times. Eddie being attuned to Buck right now is meant to show that he can sense these things about Buck, even when it's not conscious.

"To be seen… to be found… isn't that what we're all searching for?"

Buck assumes Eddie's meeting with Marisol, and Eddie does not correct him. I've seen other people mention how this feels like Eddie is cheating on Buck, and not really on Marisol, and in my opinion, that all comes down to who is Eddie more emotionally intimate with. He already feels super disconnected to Marisol, even more so in this episode, but we've spent the first half of this season establishing how Buck and Eddie are closer than ever. So Eddie lying to Buck feels like the real cheating here, because Eddie has only ever given himself fully to Buck, in all his messed up glory. He's never given that to Marisol, or Ana. And he most definitely never gave that to Shannon.

Side note, I loved the cologne line because it implies that Buck knows how Eddie smells, and that smelling him now is something Buck is enjoying. Him saying they won't wait up for Eddie further cements the domesticity of the scene. Buck has a full relationship with Chris outside of Eddie, but they also have a strongly established bond all three of them. In an episode where Eddie assumes Marisol must love smores despite her never having tried one, Eddie inherently knows that Buck's struggling with lasagna and needs to order a pizza.

Eddie and Buck's flirting--because that's what it is-- feels natural. More so than the flirting with Marisol in the beginning of the episode, and more so than with Kim-Not-Shannon that was moored down by the reality that Eddie is severely projecting all of his major issues onto her. Buck and Eddie have an easy rapport filled with mutual support, inside jokes, gentle ribbing, synchronicity and above all, friendship and trust. THAT is why the betrayal of Eddie with Kim only a few moments later feels so stark and like a huge blow to the audience.

Eddie sees Kim, and all he sees is Shannon's face, but I have to give MASSIVE kudos to the hair, costume, and makeup department here because they couldn't make Kim look ANY more starkly different from Shannon. In the scenes at the store, Kim is dressed more professionally, in lighter more inviting colors. And then here, when Kim can take off the customer service mask, and be fully herself, we see that she dresses in darker clothing, pants, and jackets with her hair up in almost an alternative-punk style. It's a MASSIVE contrast to Shannon who was almost always dressed in lighter, warmer colors, in shades of orange, yellow, and warm pinks, with minimal makeup and long flowy dresses or soft sweaters. Shannon's hair was almost always down and flowing around her face with her bangs. Kim's hair is completely up, totally out of her face in a severe bun look, without any bangs. She could not look father from Shannon if she tried. And yet, Eddie is not seeing Kim, he's not seeing the individual woman who's probably really lovely, the woman he's inherently hurting by using her to be reminded of his dead wife. No, all he sees is Shannon, and he's 100% willing to tank his whole life just to get a bit of that feeling back.

Eddie is on his way towards rock bottom, and this episode is only getting started. The glass is going to shatter extremely hard, and I worry for what the consequences will be for Eddie for all this, because there's no way he's escaping this without deep cuts. He will likely lose Marisol and Kim in one fell swoop. As for Buck, Chris and the rest of the 118, that's yet to be seen. But we know Eddie's parents show back up later on, so they could be coming in with the steel chair, likely to hit Eddie harder when he's already down. After all, the originator of "Don't drag him down with you, Eddie" is none other than Helena Diaz. This season is giving very strong season 3/4 vibes, and if that's the case, it's possible Helena and Ramon are going to pose a problem by the end of the season like they might've done in season 4 if things had gone as originally planned.

I'm worried, scared and excited to see how this ends up for Eddie. But I'm also hopeful. I see a light at the end of this tunnel. After all, it's always darkest just before dawn.

Thanks for reading my meta!

#911 abc #911 meta #buddie #buddie meta #eddie diaz #eddie diaz meta #season 7 #buck x eddie #meta

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brucewaynehater101 · 7 months ago

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i'm gonna be real idk if your the right person to go for young justice core four headcanons but you give the best replies by far so heres my own idea idea

I was listening to the Roblox Soundfont remix and now the og Gone Angels and now I'm thinking . . .

Tim became Robin to prevent Batman from ceasing to be the symbol of heroism and good he started off as

The symbol that spiraled into destruction of even the self with Jason Todd's death

imagine a world where Red Robin becomes the very thing he swore to destroy with his own death

he dies along with Bart and Kon. Cassie due to this and maybe other factors fucking looses it, Batman post-Jason's death but pre-Tim becoming Robin style

or maybe instead he dies but the rest of the core four lives. either way Cassie still looses it, by herself or with her other teammates

And maybe, just maybe, they get nobody to be the Third Robin to their Batman, no Third Robin to Tim's Second Robin

likely improbably in canon but the idea of Cassie and maybe even Bart and Kon having a villain arc (maybe Black Silence style) is too good of an idea not to share

(Side note; imagine a Gone Angels cover where the survivor(s) sing and for the itallian lyrics in the midway point the deceased sing)

((extra side note: imagine this is what gets Batman and maybe the other Bats to reflect on the time before and after Tim become robin, post Jason's death; seeing their history repeat with Young Justice))

((hell maybe the Justice League realizes as wells))

"you give the best replies by far." Thank you. Sometimes, it takes a bit to reply to asks cause I'm taking a few hours to really answer the prompts/ideas/questions people pose. I also sleep at random times, so apologizes in advance to any asks that take a while!

My image of YJ is a codependent platonic polycule. They are Young Just Us because they didn't receive proper support from their mentors. This is part of why Cassie and Tim fell apart after Kon and Bart died. This is why, in their own weird ways, both of them tried to get a form of Kon back. Tim tried the scientist cloning avenue, and Cassie tried the cult.

If you want Tim's death to inspire Cassie and YJ to go evil, might I suggest Tim sending proof of Bruce being alive in the timestream and then succumbing to his spleen injury (perhaps an infection)? This would create a delicious amount of angst, anger, and mental breakdowns.

Cassie, the only nonretired YJ member alive at the time, didn't believe Tim about Bruce being alive. This was in part due to the cloning stuff but also in part to trusting Nightwing (or Batman at the time). If Tim didn't make it out of that alive, Cassie may be desperate to find anyone to blame but herself for that. She was a kid, she was lost in her own grief, and Tim should have had the support of literally any other hero.

The entire hero community turned against a teenager in his time of need that he resorted to conspiring with the LoA and ended up losing his life. Whether she chooses to be mad about nobody believing him (Tim's possibly a better detective than Bruce and people have revived before, but his evidence at the time was flimsy), she can be very pissed that not a single hero offered to help him. They didn't even need to trust in Tim's decision. They could have just accompanied Tim until the teen gave up or proved himself right. They could have treated it as a grief road trip while Tim found himself.

Anyways, losing the last nonretired YJ member that way may cause her to just snap. The JL was already on thin ice with the YJ for their lack of support to her generation of heroes. Them failing YJ enough that two children died in the field and one died as a direct result of their actions? She would, rightfully, loathe the JL. On top of that, she does already not trust the government for what they did to Secret. If she can't prosecute the JL, she'll become their enemy.

Cassie lost all of her main polycule. She wants revenge.

After Bart and Kon come back, they see how JL left Cassie and what they did to Tim. Cassie is part of their ride or die, and she has been treated so horribly. Tim has died. They obviously join her.

Now, with Bart there to give evil ideas (Bart is the scariest member of YJ and you can't convince me otherwise), YJ is a force to be reckoned with. Maybe some of the other members come out of retirement, maybe not. They would be unstoppable with Tim helping them, but that's the problem. They don't have Tim. Tim isn't there to help them nor hold them back. That's why they became "evil" anyway.

I like to imagine someone, probably Nightwing, screaming at them from across the battlefield. "This isn't what he would have wanted! He became Robin to stop Batman from destroying everything. This is the antithesis of why he became a hero!"

For a split second, YJ would pause. There's merit in those words, after all. Cassie would recover first as she shakes her head. "He became a hero to be the leash to Batman's rage. He's not here now. He's not here to temper our rage, and you did that. You abandoned a child." She plants her feet more firmly and points her sword at Nightwing. "We won't let you do that again."

It's dealers choice on whether YJ win the battle or not. Also, I do believe YJ would be obsessed with trying to bring Tim back. Perhaps some of their evil deeds truly stem from them trying to find ways to bring back Tim. They are incomplete without him just as they were incomplete without Kon or Bart and would be without Cassie.

Now, is Tim actually alive or does he stay dead? Did Ra's revive him using the Pit? Did Ra's lie or misguide the Bats while keeping Tim hostage? Will Tim come back, either after being brainwashed by Ra's or escaping, to find his platonic polycule has officially lost it and turned evil?

#cassie sandsmark #dc comics #dc universe #young justice #young just us #let yj be evil #tim drake #bart allen #kon el superboy #thank you for the ask!!!!#yj can and should take over the world for the greater good

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necrotic-nephilim · 2 months ago

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any opinions on joker junior!tim/jason?

oh my GOD yes-

Joker Junior!Tim is one of my guilty pleasures. i'm *obsessed* with the concept, i think it's so horrifying in such an intriguing way. it's tricky to work into the main timeline, but that's sort of the fun of it, bc generally you have two routes: Joker Junior happened to Tim when he was Robin and he's since moved on and continued to be Robin then Red Robin. or it happened to him as Red Robin and is a current thing that the characters in the fic are dealing with. and both are good.

because there's endless potential of how to do it with JayTIm. does Jason save Tim, does Jason *know* in the first place, if it happens after Jason is back as Red Hood how does he react, etc. i've read it in fics and i love every version.

but i think i'm intrigued by the idea of Joker Junior happening before Jason comes back as Red Hood and he finds out about it and he's *pissed*. like infinitely more pissed than he would've been. but his anger isn't in protection of Tim, it's at Bruce for not learning, for letting this happen again. and for making a brainwashed child have to kill Joker because *again*, Bruce couldn't do it. the point isn't about if Joker is alive or dead. it's that *Bruce* didn't kill Joker and Jason's death didn't mean enough to Bruce to stop Joker before he did it again. because Joker Junior really is the proof Jason needs to shove in Bruce's face about child sidekicks and Robins and Joker. and since Jason didn't exist in the universe where Joker Junior happened, we never saw a real comparison of the two. but i think if they happened in the same universe, it makes what Joker does to Tim far more purposeful. because now he knows he can kill a Robin and *get away with it*. so he wants to push it. how do you top *killing Robin*? like, if that doesn't get to Batman *what does*? Joker Junior seems like the perfectly reasonable next progression. if a dead Robin doesn't break the Bat, then breaking Robin beyond recognition seems even bigger. and Joker trying to get Tim to kill Bruce as Joker Junior would likely be Joker just seeing if Bruce would let it happen. could Bruce bring himself to stop Tim? and of course Joker doesn't find out bc Tim kills him instead, but it's such a fun question.

and so, i think Jason would *know* his death in a way, caused this. Joker did that to Tim because he didn't get enough of a rise out of Bruce for killing Jason. if Bruce had *just* killed the Joker, none of this would've happened. another kid wouldn't be irrevocably fucked up.

as for Jason's opinions on Tim specifically, i think it's fun if Tim retires from vigilante work entirely after the incident. (with Steph taking over as Robin for a much longer and more significant period instead of just getting fridged) because Tim has very black and white morals so knowing he killed someone, even under the influence of Joker venom, he'd immediately put down the cape, suggest Steph to take up his mantle and quietly retire. he knows what he's capable of now, pushed to the edge and it scares him. i think it's fun if it scares him *because* he was lucid. if he was truly under the brainwashing control, he would've killed Bruce. but he didn't. he had a moment of clarity, and decided to kill the Joker. and he knows that was *him*, not Joker Junior. he made that decision and now, he lives with it.

which means Jason would be almost pissed off by Tim, at first. because they're reacting to their trauma *wildly* differently. Jason wants blood for blood, vengeance, war, and to make Gotham feel his wrath. but Tim just wants to. disappear. quietly vanish and live a quiet life, even refusing to run comms. Jason doesn't understand how TIm doesn't share the anger and passion Jason has for justice. he knows what Tim is capable of and so does Tim, so why doesn't Tim lean into it? why doesn't he take back control? bc this is letting the Joker win, to Jason. after all, Jason is the guy who took Joker's old name to prove a point. and now he's facing another person broken by Joker who just. is a normal guy. i'd love to write Jason forcibly dragging Tim back into the superhero life, trying to trigger the worst out of him and wanting to find kinship in Tim. because that's another part of it- this is someone else who might actually understand Jason's experiences and Jason just wants to not be alone. he wants someone else who gets what it feels like. so he makes Tim face the trauma Tim is running from and pushes and pushes until Tim snaps. i think it could be fun.

don't get me wrong, i love softer JJ!Tim in JayTim stuff just as much, where Jason is more protective and they bond and end up really close and taking care of each other because of it. but i'd love to lean into the fucked up nature of it. for Jason to want to rip Tim open and see just how much of the Joker is left inside of him. for Jason to be obsessed with the other Robin that Joker broke. for Jason to be even angrier at Bruce because of it all. there's endless potential and it will forever remain my guilty pleasure for JayTim.

#necrotic answerings #jaytim #joker junior #dead dove do not eat #i just think jj!tim is neat.#like i have endless upon endless ideas about it.#some are softer and some are feral #and i will eat up every fic for it #especially love that art i reblogged recently of jj!tim and arkham knight!jason #i don't know too much abuot arkham knight stuff #but i want to get into it bc it seems so intriguing and that art makes me feral.#i want tim to be whumped in any imaginable way.#fuck that boy up and break him until he doesn't know who he is anymore <3 #it's crunchy #seriously thank you anon for asking this is my fave thing ever.

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nelkcats · 2 years ago

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Consequences

When he felt compelled to take over as Robin in order to save Batman from himself, Tim didn't have high expectations; he didn't expect to be adopted by Bruce, he didn't expect to acknowledge the fact that his parents were abusive by leaving him alone for months, he didn't expect anyone to care if he ate or not, and in general he didn't expect to gain a family.

And for a while he thought that everything would get better: he gained brothers, he had a caring father, he had no financial problems or had gotten sick; And yes, maybe Robin's patrols were harsh at first, maybe Bruce's words when he was angry reached his heart and hurt him deeply, but he was fine.

Until he wasn't, at some point he felt more abandoned than ever even though he was surrounded by his family. When he was talking to his boyfriend, he realized that everyone took him into account but no one really appreciated what he did.

At first he didn't understand why Danny looked at him concerned and kept asking if he was okay while he told him an anecdote from his life as a vigilante; they had known each other for a while (Alfred had noticed, the others hadn't), they started talking, dating in coffee shops and even revealed the fact of being vigilantes after a few months on a relationship, that's when they started sharing anecdotes with each other.

Danny mentioned that he was being a hypocrite for caring so much about his stories when his were just as bad. Tim didn't get it until he started to see things from another perspective.

He never realized how much it hurted how Bruce had never thanked him for helping when he was lost in time, or how Dick avoided talking about his Robin time by concentrating on Damian, he thought he could understand but that didn't make it any better, Jason's nickname was beginning to make sense.

He didn't realize how broken he felt when Jason tried to kill him and blamed him; He was his childhood hero, Tim loved Robin because Jason put him in the stars, however, no matter how many times he explained to his brother that the only reason he had taken the suit was because he had no choice, and that he felt forced to blackmail Batman to be his Robin before Bruce became what he hated most. Jason still didn't care, still called him Replacement over and over again, blaming.

Or Damian who kept trying to kill him, refusing to acknowledge him, and when he defended himself he ended up getting reprimanded. Not even Bruce thanked him for all the work he did in taking over the company as CEO. His entire family went on with their lives without repercussions.

Maybe he was being naive as he refused Danny's requests to run away from home and stay with him, at least for a few days so they would miss him. He felt like a broken record repeating the phrase "it's okay, they're trying, they can change", the look on his boyfriend's face told him he wasn't doing a good job on believing his own words.

The mansion made him feel small at times, ignored; it was fortunate that Alfred was actually paying attention to him and offering a cup of hot chocolate at such moments.

At some point he couldn't take it anymore, Jason and Damian's comments had gone too far, Bruce's lack of response along with Dick's laughter commenting that they weren't saying it in a bad way only made him angry, so he left the cave and called to Danny, he told him it was time to go.

He said goodbye to Alfred, Cass, Duke and Steph who had generally not contributed to his decision, and he regretted that he couldn't stay longer to get to know them better, but the damage had been building up for a long time.

He wrote a letter detailing his reasons to the rest of the family, leaving along some clues to let them know that he had left of his own free will and they wouldn't be able to find him even if they wanted to, he sighed as his anger turned to resignation.

"Are you ready?" Danny questioned, taking his hand gently as they walked out of the mansion.

"Ready as I'll ever be"

That's how Timothy Jackson Drake said goodbye to his home dimension and headed to the infinite realms, of course he was going to sneak in a couple of times to help his friends but never when his family is around. He hadn't expected the life in the palace or the marriage proposal that came years later, but although the place was gigantic, Tim felt good in it, comfortable, appreciated.

Time in the Realms passed quite quickly, unlike his original dimension, so years for him were a couple of months for his family.

He found it ironic that Danny was summoned as the Ghost King by Ra, who had the nerve to order the "creature" to give him the secrets of the Lazarus pits, offering the Batclan as sacrifices. Tim looked at the time portal connected to his home dimension (That Clockwork had given him to watch his family and friends, even if he was upset he was not going to let them die) wondering if he should interfere.

It was decided when Danny called Fright Knight to deal with the nuisance that was Ra, and he accompanied him as a royal adviser (regardless of his second title as ruler, he actually liked being a part of strategizing better and Danny was happy to give in to his wishes).

With a weary sigh he crossed the portal and began to recite Ra's crimes, indicating how he had damaged the balance between life and death since he corrupted the ectoplasm on the Lazarus pits to extend his life at the same time that Frighty stopped the man.

No one in the room bothered to pay attention to the stupefied bats who were watching the missing member of his family, but years older, that apparently was the Ghost King royal adviser. They tried to call him but Tim just gave them an annoyed look before continuing with his work.

By the time Fright Knight took Ra completely chained through the portal, they finally saw the ghost king move, he started kissing Tim's face repeatedly, which had turned his frown into laughter.

The moment they finally processed the scene they both disappeared, and well, weren't those the consequences of their own actions?

----

Thanks to @unadulteratedsoulsweets for the general idea, I enjoyed writing this! Even if it ended up a little bigger than I expected

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raineydays411 · 1 year ago

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My Fathers Daughter pt 11

Okay! so here's part 11 <3

It has been so busy in my life lately, I just started a new job so I'm getting used to that. I'm also thinking of starting a patron? But honestly I don't think I'm good enough to charge people to read my stuff plus I'd feel bad.Idk if thats something I should look into let me know.

Summary: This is basically set up for the more important chapters

You are going crazy.

Like literally insane. You might end up on the news honestly.

These people are driving you insane. And it's so boring! After the initial feeling of anger and resentment passed, and that awkward conversation with Dick you made a decision.

You were going to make the best of this situation. There was no point in wallowing in self pity when you were already there. Just like Jason said, you can let the anger consume you or you can make it work.

You're making it work.

You started out slowly. As much as the thought of just walking out and pretending like everything was normal amuses you, you realize that it may not be the best choice given that you have been surly most of your stay here. So you made a plan.

First you started by waking up early and offering to help Alfred with breakfast. Because of there was anyone you wanted to win over it was him. He was certainly surprised at the offer but didn't turn you down. He had you mixing the pancake batter because the one time he let you try, you ended up burning the pan and the pancake. Hey, you were still a rich kid no matter how independent you were. You also set the table, and while you were doing that everyone started waking up and coming down stairs.

No surprise that Christine was the first one down.

"Y/n!" She says in shock," Good morning! What..what are you doing? Is everything okay?"

You look up from the plates you were setting down, "Uh..yeah, I just..I just wanted to see if Alfred needed any help."

Christine, despite the common consensus, was not a dumb woman by any means. She knows that she has come on wayyy too strongly when it comes to mending her relationship with you. She really couldn't help it, the guilt has been eating her alive. But seeing you here, downstairs talking Alfreds ear off and setting the table, makes her want to take a step back and recalculate her approach. So, instead of loading you with questions and offers to have girl time woth you, she simply beams a bright, genuine smile and says

"I'm glad you did, Alfred tends to overwork himself even though he won't admit it." Smiling when she hears Alfred scoff from the kitchen, " Thank you."

You stare at her. Not really knowing what exactly to say, but you're saved from responding when Tim and Damian come stomping down the stairs, bickering.

"I am telling you only once Timothy, the next time you hog the shower-"

'Damian dude there are like five other bathrooms, why do you insist on using-" "You know that that shower has the best water pressure!"

The arguing ceases when they notice you downstairs.

"Oh, so you're taking to ruining our day before it even begins then" Damian says snidely.

"Oh yeah," You reply, " Nothing makes me get up faster in the morning than the thought of specifically ruining the day of a preschooler."

Damian just tsks and takes a seat. The glares of his mother and butler daring him to make another remark that might scare you off.

Tim just looks at the two of you and flashes you a soft smile saying a quick good morning and takes a seat. He really doesn't know what to do around you. He has a feeling that maybe the two of you can get along, but so far the hostility you harbor towards his mother figure has really put him off you. Logically of course he understands, the history the two of you have is enough to make anyone hate his mothers' actions. But despite that, Christine is his mother. And he's only known you for a few months. he also feels that even if there is bad blood between you and Christine, there is no reason to take it out on his brothers. They didn't directly have a hand in Christines actions. But again, your hard feelings make sense. It was a very complex situation.

Bruce was the last one to come down. He was already dressed in a nice suit and tie, kissing Christine on the cheek and mumbling a quick good morning to the boys. Upon seeing you at the table, he pauses, gives a soft smile and ruffles your hair with a "good morning Y/n, thank you for setting the table." Grabbing his quick breakfast and nodding goodbye.

It leaves you stunned. He acted so casually, as if you've been setting tables here you're whole life. But that might be the one thing you appreciate about Bruce you're entire stay here.

The rare times you would leave your room and be in his presence, he would treat you just as he treated his other children. There was no forced conversations or abrasive and demanding questions. No ill will towards you because of the circumstances. Just Bruce rolling and adapting with the punches.

You guessed that maybe him being Batman, he's probably deducted that you don't like the way everyone (Christine and Dick) has made such a big fuss over you being at the Manor. Or maybe he's just adopted enough kids to know what tactics work and what don't.

Who knows.

Breakfast goes by without too much conversation, except for a few snide remarks from Damian that everyone ignores. And the day goes by pretty slowly. Until night time.

Now, you knew coming to Gotham that it's basically the Crime Capital of America. But actually being in the city watching it from your living room is a whole other story.

Joker is loose in the city causing absolute mania. He has taken over the main hospital, lacing ivs with his poison, causing hundreds of patients to go insane. The screams and manic laughter can be heard from outside the hospital, that is being featured on the news. Just watching through your screen and knowing that you aren't able to get a first person POV is absolutely killing you.

The manor is silent all night. You go downstairs to ask Alfred some questions and he is nowhere to be found. Neither is Christine or Bruce. Damian gone. Tim? nowhere . Dick and Jason not there. The girls are missing as well.

Now, if you were anyone other than Tony Starks daughter, you would find the disappearance of the Wayne family during Jokers terrorist event to be pretty concerning. However you did manage to inherit some of your fathers smarts and managed to deduce that Bruce Wayne was the vigilante Batman and his sons were his sidekick Robin. Honestly you found out a long time ago when you were trying to hack into Wayne enterprises to pull a prank when your father came back from a gala annoyed. But now you were just getting stir crazy.

You were watching as all these innocent people were getting their minds turned on them in their most vulnerable moments. And it seems as if Batman is having a hard time creating an antidote as well as contain the hospital grounds. So you do what you do best and hack into the Batcomputer. You skim through files about previous interactions with the Joker and his venom, noting that this man has been basically let off the hook wayyyy to easily for the atrocities he commits but that none of your business.

You manage to find a pattern when it comes to the way that the Joker creates his venom and the additional components he adds to it to make it more potent. This most recent upgrade, he had to add a certain chemical that wouldn't burn the victims veins upon entry and would quickly affect their minds. There was one chemical that you knew about when you were researching Hydras mind controlling tactics back when you had first met Bucky and wanted to help him. Immediately you realize that it is the same chemical that the Joker must have put into the IVs and rush out to tell somebody.

Only, nobody's in the manor. Amd you have no idea how to reach them.

So, you figure that Bruce must have a "secret lair" of some sort and got exploring. You honestly get lost a couple of times, and come across a grandfather clock, noticing that the time is wrong. You move the hands, hearing a hiss and scraping. You turn and see the staircase behind a bookshelf.

Bingo.

You slowly walk to the door, heart pounding.

Despite being occasionally involved in your fathers infamous superhero lifestyle, you didn't know how Bruce and the others will react to you being upfront about your knowledge of their double life. So far, they have been content on ignoring the fact that you have hinted multiple times about you knowing their secret. Even Jason will redirect conversations if you mention the strange lack of vigilante activity that Gotham was to famous for. For the few months you have been in Gotham, it seems as if anything having to do with the Bat, whether its news articles or reports, has seemed to disappear. And you feel as if it was purposeful.

You were supposed to be laying low, and how can you do that if you throw yourself into the night life.

And now that you are truly seeing the cruelties of said nightlife first hand, you're glad you have been shelter from it. It was one thing to see it on a computer screen, it was another to see it in real time.

You finally reach the bottom of the staircase, slightly out of breath as it really was a long way down and you were rushing. You look around seeing a cave made of limestone. When entering the cave you noticed the musty air usual caves have was not there. Platforms connected to each other as water ran by the sides. You saw a....t rex and a giant penny? As well as many other what you assume is memorabilia from previous fights. Clear cases containing multiple versions of the Batman and robin suits. There were different gadgets and weapons' lining the walls, a training area, a replica hospital area, as well as a freaking platform for the Batmobile.

Honestly it blew your mind that Bruce has enough time ans the resources to make this cave so extravagant. But you guess that thats what rich people tend to--

"Y/n?!"

A panicked voice breaks your train of thought. You look up to see Christine rushing towards you in a panic, " What are you doing down here?! I told them I didn't want you to be in this!"

Excuse me?

"Excuse me? What do you mean you told them?" You said in shock anger starting to slowly simmer in your body.

Before an argument could start, Alfred gave a quick

"Miss Christine, perhaps this isn't the best moment for your overprotective mother routine."

Before he returned to the massive collections of screens that looked like a supercomputer. It was showing the first person povs of what looked like multiple people. And it was bad.

In one screen, someone was trying to pry off what looked like a crazed hospital patient from another one. In another screen, someone was trying to get the non infected patients and doctors safely out of the trashed hospital only to encounter men in clown makeup. The worst one was the screen that was obviously Bruce/Batman, being mercilessly taunted by non other than the Joker clad in a stereotypical doctors outfit. His cruel smile twisting and he menacingly loomed over a woman who was petrified. She was being held down by some of the Jokers' henchmen as he stalked towards her with a syringe filled with a clear unidentified liquid. Batman was fighting a hoard off Jokerfied hospital patients, all crazed with maniacal laughter that sent a chill down your spine. Wide crazed smiles filled every screen you looked at no matter who's point of view it was. It made you a little worried about little Damian. Even if he was a pain, he was a child. There is no way he should've been out there.

Christine pursed her lips at Alfreds remark and nodded, probably setting a mental reminder to lecture you later before heading to a smaller set of computers.

"What are you doing?" You ask following her, wanting to get away from the horrifying scene on the main one.

"I'm trying to find some sort of antidote. Every one we usually use seems to make this one stronger." Christine says grimly. You watched for a bit, wondering how someone could do this to innocent people.

"I think I can help with that." You say, but before you are able to continue your speech, Christine cut you off.

"No. No way. Y/n as your mother I cannot let you get involved in this. No way"

You frown, " What do you mean no? I don't think the lot of you have many options at this point Christine."

"I said no. I am not letting another one of my children get ducked up in this life. Go back upstairs." Christine demanded in a stern voice.

Honestly it made you more amused than scared. She really didn't have the same grip of fear Pepper had when she was angry with you.

"Christine if you would just list--"

"Y/n thats enough! Go back to your room and wait for me up there young lady."

"This isn't some parental disagreement this is life and death i can't stand by and let innocent people die just because you wanna play mommy." You say sternly.

Christine looks visibly hurt by your comment. But she looks back into the screen and says

"My family is out there risking their lives for those innocent people. If your father lets you run around unchecked during his mission then that's on him. I however will not let you endanger the lives of my children and husband as well as what seems like half the freaking population of Gotham. Now GO up stairs."

And with that she turns and heads back to the smaller set of computers and refuses to engage with you until you have no choice but to go back up the million flight of stairs back into the manor, then climb up the other flight leading back into your bedroom.

You were fuming.

You slammed the door upon entering your room and threw a pillow to harshly into the wall.

Hundreds of people might die or become permanently insane because of the stubbornness of one woman.

That's when you hear a chime go off from your desk. You look over to see your laptop.

The same laptop you happened to upgrade with protective features that allowed you to hack into hydra files.

The same laptop that you had used to hack into the Batcomputer. The same computer that was downstair...

With in a beat you wear sat in your desk, logging into your computer. You figured if the people downstair weren't going to listen to you, then maybe the ones in the field will.

You look around for what you think is a link to who you hope is bruce and say a small

"Hello?"

Whoever it was gave a pause, and then says

"Y/n? You finally decided to stop pretending you didn't know huh?

Taglist:

@loxbbg

#marvel x reader #avengers x teen!reader #tony stark x daughter!reader #jason todd x reader #dc comics x reader #reader insert #marvel #dick grayson x reader #x reader #bruce wayne x daughter!reader

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mamawasatesttube · 2 months ago

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Sorry, I know you don’t really like people bringing up Jason but I’m very curious. I read Straight on Till Morning several times before really joining Tumblr and I was surprised by how much you seem to dislike him compared to how nicely he was written in said fic. Is it cuz it’s a future fic so he can be more chilled out than in current comics or something?

Feel free to ignore me if you want. Curiosity does not owe me answers.

no worries, i don't mind polite questions! :P

so there's two things. a) sotm was written when the only real comics i'd read were sb94, yj98, tt03, batgirl (2000), and nightwing '96 (iirc - i might be forgetting one or two but the point is, when i was pretty new to comics). at this point wfa had tricked me into thinking jason actually had a consistent character arc that i simply hadn't read yet, and i assumed it would be weird to write a fic where dick, tim, and cass were all around as kon's friends + damian was there being jon's friend in the background, but jason didn't get mentioned, so i worked him in bc i thought that was like. gonna be weird if i didn't, even tho i didn't know what he was doing in postcrisis yet. i mostly just wanted to write about kon and did not yet have the strong "actually i do not care for 99% of post-rebirth comics" feelings i have today. if i were to do the sotm rewrite in my mind, jason would actually still be in his villain to antivillain era because that's my actual favorite era of him. i think it's fun when he's hanging around being like... a vengeful ghost who's just determined to make his problems Everyone's Problem. i'm not really interested in soft angsty daddy's boy jtodd or whatever sdkjfh and that seems to be the most popular version of him i see. it's either soft angsty daddy's boy jason or it's power fantasy cop-adjacent jason who has never done anything wrong in his life and is completely valid in every decision he's ever made. neither of these interests me.

which brings me to b) it's not so much that i dislike jason todd as a character so much as that his fans are so fucking annoying to me. that chapter of sotm? multiple people in the comments were there ONLY to talk about jason, even though the fic is literally about kon and not about jason and he just happens to appear for PART of one scene that chapter. it made me get sick of hearing about him. like theres soooo many jason todd fics out there can you go read those. i want to talk about kon! and i've had people bring him up on my completely unrelated fics too like he doesn't even get MENTIONED like one fic is about clark kon and tim, and someone was in the comments like "omg i bet clark was thinking about jason here" and i was so ... dude. read the room. or the fic even. it is not about him.

but even more than the way a lot of jason fans have this apparently compulsive need to make him the main character of the entire universe, i really can't stand how many of them i've seen spout literal straight up copaganda and/or defense of the death penalty. like they will bend over backwards so hard to defend why he was right to put 8 heads in a duffel bag or why it's morally correct to kill rapists that they start spewing right-wing talking points. and the constant need to make him the perfect imperfect victim ("he's angry and loud unlike GOOD victims--") and all of that just... it really turns me off of 99% of fan content about him that i've seen. it makes me genuinely kind of uncomfortable. like if you think there's a category of criminal that it's okay to execute (without a trial, even) i want nothing to do with you. can you guys just say it's sexy when a man is covered in blood after murdering a room full of people without having to be like "and he was right to do it too!!" because i promise he was not. and if you SAY any of this people will come up with a whole thing about how you must hate victims and/or poor people or some shit. its... really something.

all of that being said - i think there are interesting things you COULD do with his character. i think he can be a fascinating character! with stories worth telling! the family tragedy, the horror story, the vengeful ghost! but at this point with how rancid i find his fanbase i just really only want to see jason takes from people i know will not start spewing copaganda at me + people who i know appreciate tim kicking him in the balls (bc he kicked dick in the balls and tim is a bitch).

anyways. bring back tentatodd 2k25 who's with me

#answers #syndertenebris #jason

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dairy-farmer · 8 months ago

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Jason's life had always been about fighting. He had to survive domestic abuse with his piece of shit father and suffering from addiction mom. Than he chose to fight for innocent people, when Bruce adopted him. After he died, fighting was all he had left. It never even occurred to him to try and start a new life as a civilian.

Then, after suffering from headaches, nausea and fainting for some time, Tim went through examination and found out that he has a brain tumor. He underwent a surgery and was left with a horrible outcome: he couldn't move, talk, take care of himself.

Bruce found him a nurse, because no one could be there the whole time with him. When Bruce introduced them and softly explained to Tim that the woman is going to be his caretaker, Tim turned pale, his breathing got shallow and his body started shaking. Bruce had to ask nurse to leave, only after Tim calmed down.

Jason honestly doesn't know, how Bruce expected Tim to trust with his life to a complete stranger, considering the business they were in. It was obvious that they needed to find someone, who he already knew. In the meantime they will take turns taking care of him. Except that didn't work out as well. Damian was a kid, who tried to kill Tim, do he was out of question from the start, Alfred had too many responsibilities, and Dick and Bruce had emergencies constantly. The first time Dick called Jason to ask to sit with him for a few hours, feed him, etc, Jason wasn't happy about it, but he had no problem with Tim. Poor kid didn't ask to suffer so much, so Jason spoonfed him, read him a book, talked at him about his adventures with the Outlaws, joked about Dick and his poor choices. He even made Tim smile weakly.

Next time he was asked to play nurse, he was ready. Tim's face light up when he saw him, and Jason thought that it's not all bad.

"Hey Timmy, ready to hear more about miss Bennet's adventures?"

At some point Jason just... Stopped leaving. He made it his goal to make Tim smile as much as he could. He fed him, watched movies with him, read to him. Suddenly Tim Drake was like the center of his universe. Sometimes Dick, Bruce or Alfred would take over for him for a couple of hours, but usually it was just the two of them.

One time Dick started talking about his weekend with his friends, things that they did, Tim got upset, so Jason shut him down. Then Damian started making comments about Tim's slow recovery, even though there was progress: Tim was able to sit now, talk using monosyllabic words, even feed himself slowly on his own. Though he still was tired all the time, still had headaches. Dick with his fun stories about normal life without health issues and Damian with his comments didn't help with Tim recovery. Besides, Bruce was frustrated because of another crisis.

That's why Jason decided to pack their things and move to a safe house. Tim looked relieved, which only cemented Jason's decision.

During the first week on their own they were faced with a problem: in the manor Alfred bathed Tim, because he was still physically too weak to do it on his own. So Jason had to do it. No problem, even though sounds a little awkward.

That was when things changed. Jason was soaping his body, when he thought for the first time, how soft and smooth Tim's skin is. When he was massaging Tim's scalp, Tim moaned, his pink lips slightly parted. After they were done, Jason helped Tim get in the bed, went to shower to get himself clean and finally relaxed, letting hot water wash over him, when he touched himself to the memory of Tim's body.

It was like they build a heaven just for the two of them. Jason helped Tim to get to the bathroom, went to a store to buy groceries, called out "I'm home", when he was back, then started to cook. Tim was slowly relearning how to do things on his own. They spend time doing something together. They went to sleep separately. It would have been perfect, if only Jason didn't fall in love with Tim and this civilian life they were living.

Things changed again, when Jason helped Tim into bed after bath and was ready to go jerk off in the shower, when Tim stopped him and asked if he could help him. Jason, confused, didn't get it. Tim touched his cock through his sweatpants, and Jason groaned. Then he finally kissed him.

this is so cuutee!!! 🥺🥺🥺 the way that jason takes over taking care of tim when he's not able. the way jason learns how to best care for tim, gets attuned to his feelings, realizes that the best way to help him is get him out of the manor.

then jason growing attracted to tim and the private little life they now have together!!!!!hiding his attraction to tim but then tim catching on and reciprocating!!!!!🥰🥰🥰🥰

#answered asks #asks #anonymous #jaytim

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tmntxthings · 1 year ago

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一∑ All For You・゜・。

author’s note: nice song, idk how I got the yandere vibes, but here we are, also it’s late soooo unedited and prolly horrendous >.<

warnings: yandere!donnie, toxic relationship, gaslighting, lies, manipulation, controlling, cursing

song: “ Feather by Sabrina Carpenter ”

—————————————————————————

Donatello didn’t feel any remorse as he hacked into your phone.

You obviously needed help.

You couldn’t do this yourself.

So he took it upon himself to help you out with this one.

It was honestly torture to watch you with your toxic partner.

And he was past the point of caring about the repercussions you may force upon him.

Donnie was actually pretty sure you would be grateful. This favor he was about to do for you.

It was too easy to get into your phone. Donnie sat in his swivel chair, music playing around him as he dabbled with the keys on his keyboard.

After he had cornered his resolve it was only a matter of time. He knew most of your passwords and while he could’ve just stolen your phone to do this… he didn’t want to chance it.

Donnie wouldn’t just block this asshole. No no. He was going to eradicate this fool from your phone. Wipe it clean of your partner's existence. There would be no way they could reach you and if they tried instead it would alert Donnie.

You were unhappy with your current situation. You came to the lair moping, and in a depressive state due to this punk! And it seemed every time you did go through with breaking up, it would last only a couple of hours before this irritating charmer found their way back into your life. Back as your partner.

Well Donnie had enough. And he was positive you felt the same way. You just needed his help. Needed him to take control and save you. Make all the hard decisions so you wouldn’t have to feel guilty.

Gladly! He would gladly do all these things and more to get you back into a happier state. And you would see! Once you got over the fact that he intruded into your space, and completely blocked someone out of your life… all that was missing was the irl part.

Donnie didn’t know if he was ready to commit murder on your behalf yet. So this would have to do for now.

It had worked too. Initially you had wondered why they weren’t responding to you, messaging or calling you. But as the days went by you were brighter, lighter.

And Donnie had to keep it together to not verbally ask for a gracious thank you. No, this was enough. Just seeing you smile. Yeah. A feather is what you became. You floated into his lab, giggling about some comedy movie you had just finished. Asking him about his latest and greatest.

Now usually Donnie was very attentive to you. Especially when you came in his space. He had to make sure you didn’t accidentally light something on fire or god forbid press a button that should probably have a fingerprint approval on it.

So yeah, he was halfway listening to you. His headphones buzzing from a tune, typing something on his monitor when he got a blip of a notification. One that you clocked in on.

“Who’s that??”

And like a cat he jumped in his seat. Realizing it was a message from your asshole of a partner. He was trying to close out his screens and his fingers flew to cover up his mistake. But the world was against him as your head leaned past his shoulder, scrutinizing the screen as he missed the escape button a trillion times.

“Fucking Asshole?”

You questioned and as you read the message. No the loads of messages that had gone between Donnie and well..your soon to be ex! You took a sharp intake of breath.

“Donnie what the fuck is this??”

He cringed. Finally closing, it made a resound click. “Before I admit to my crimes I’d like to point out how happy you’ve been these past couple of days! Just think, you could be this way all the tim—“

“Donnie!!” You yelled, staring him down now.

He pulled down his headset. “Really Y/n you’re overreacting right now. All I’ve done is block them permanently off your phone and rerouted everything they send to me instead.” He listed all of this off nonchalantly. It was all totally cool. It was chill! It was fineeee!

You just continued to stare, though your eyes had widened incrementally as you assessed the bigger picture. “And you’re responding to them??”

“Ahh well.. I couldn’t help myself. I told myself I wouldn’t but.. pretending to be you and slowly breaking their resolve was just too fun to miss out on! Pretty sure they're gonna break up with you soon!” Donnie tacked on the last sentence as a bonus! A super positive plus that surely you were happy about.

“Donnie this is fucked up. You can’t just do that! You can’t just, UGH! I can’t even right now Dee. I’m leaving.”

You were bolting. And Donnie wondered if he should follow. He swiveled. Once. Twice. Fuck it he was going after you! To explain better.

“Y/n! Wait!” He called out, jumping from his chair and pressing on his wrist tech to call for a battle shell. It shot out from the charging station and latched onto his softshell. Once in place he went in jetpack mode, flying through the sewer and assessing you had already made it topside.

You were steps from walking out onto the sidewalk and into the flow of commuters. That was before his hands found your waist, gripping tightly as he picked your weight up off the ground and he shot into the air.

You screamed, flailing before deciding you didn’t want to fall and clung to him instead. Now you were cursing as he slowed down to land on an empty rooftop.

“You’re no better than them! Doing all of this by yourself! Doing things I never asked for and don’t want!” You hollered, getting heated even though you were still trying to catch your breath. Wind whipped past the both of you, leaving trails of goosebumps on you.

Donnie let you get it all off your chest. And by the end of your rant, “now get me off this roof and leave me the hell alone!” You wanted away. Still trying to run. Well now you had nowhere to go unless you wanted to fall six floors down.

“I think if you just took a moment to look past what I’ve done you’ll see I only did it for you! And it’s benefitted you so far! Why do you want to go through that cycle of breakups again? When I could just take care of this problem for you!”

This all sounded reasonable to Donatello. Nice even. “I know it may look bad to you Donnie, but I really do like them. Despite our ups and downs.”

“More downs than ups..” Donnie muttered. Rolling his eyes at the word you used ‘like’. Whatever. There was no way you liked them. Why were you over all the time then? Why not hang out with them? And brimming with excitement too whenever you hung around? When you did come over after a date with your partner you were never that happy!

“I’m serious Donnie, fix what you did or else this will be the last you see of me.”

What?!

You were threatening him now?? After all he had done? His eyes darkened. A sneer appearing on his face as he stalked forward, “Really now? Where you gonna go Y/n?” Donnie looked out at the empty rooftop. No door, no staircase/fire escape. You took in your surroundings too. Your mouth going into a grim line.

“I’ll call the police. I’ll call your brothers!” Again with the threats!

Donnie expanded his tech bo. And while you jumped back thinking he was about to attack, he just leaned over it, bored to bits already. “Go ahead, try calling up a hero. We’ve got all the time in the world up here for you to understand my side of things.”

You didn’t know why every call you tried failed. Well that was until you looked up to see Donnie canceling it on his end. On his wrist tech. He shot you a swarmy wink when he caught you staring. Fuming. You’d see his point of view soon.

—————————————————————————

below are answered anon asks from this post:

thoughts on ‘jumping’

thoughts on ‘pretending’

thoughts on ‘layers’

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blancheludis · 2 months ago

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Whumptober 2024 Day 8: isolation chamber

Fandom: Batman Characters: Tim Drake, Jason Todd, Bruce Wayne, Dick Grayson Tags: Child Abuse, Dark Bruce Wayne, Running Away, Protective Dick

Summary:

The car breaks down outside of Metropolis. Bruce arrives only a few hours later.

"There's an inn a few miles down the road," he says, his face impassive. Jason knows him well enough to know he is furious. "You can walk or one of you gets the trunk."

Jason looks at the free, spacious backseats of the car. Before Tim can make a stupid, self-sacrificing decision, Jason pushes forward and in front of him. "We'll walk."

The car breaks down a few hundred kilometres out from Metropolis. It is not the smartest place to go, considering that Superman is based there, but they did not actually plan much beyond the how. When was the best and earliest opportunity. Where was just away. They got farther than Jason would have expected. He has long since given up building on hope.

"What now?" he asks as he opens the door and stretches out his legs. They are all alone out here, having stuck to smaller streets. No one to help get the car running again. No one to helpfully point them in a direction where two runaway kids could disappear to, never to be found again.

Tim is fiddling with the car's cables, fruitlessly trying to get a reaction out of it. Nothing happens. The entire car just shut down on them, leaving them to come to a slow halt by the side of the road, with no clue what, exactly, went wrong, much less how to fix it.

Finally, Tim resurfaces and mulishly packs up his little toolkit. "We should get someone to look at it," he then says, shrugging at their surroundings, void of any life. "There must be a garage around somewhere."

"We don't have that kind of money," Jason says, as if Tim needs the reminder. They have slept in the car instead of getting even a cheap motel room, and lived off junk food to stretch their meagre cash as far as they can. "Aren't you a computer genius, though? Can't you hack a bank and get us some money?"

Tim snorts, not sounding very amused at all. He leans back in his seat, closing his eyes. "I don't think life will get better in prison."

Jason is not so sure about that. It cannot really get worse. "B wouldn't send us to prison," he says anyway, turning the key in the ignition again, as if the twentieth attempt will actually change the outcome. "Too much temptation for us to talk."

"Not if they put us in solitary," Tim points out, voice too quiet for it to be ever mistaken as a joke.

"Tim." Jason reaches out and grips Tim's shoulder like a lifeline. Softer, he adds, "We'll think of something."

It is a lie and they both know it.

Still, Tim manages to smile at him. "Sure."

Bruce arrives a few hours later. That just shows they never quite got out from under his thumb in the first place. He stops the car a few feet in front of them and then gets out. He leans against the hood as he watches them silently. Perhaps they should have taken their chances and gone straight through the fields instead of sticking to the road. It would, at least, have made it harder to find them, even if that would have only delayed the inevitable further.

"There's an inn a few miles down the road," Bruce finally says. His face is impassive, but Jason knows him well enough to know he is furious. The kind of icy anger that burns everything it touches. "You can walk or one of you gets the trunk."

Before Tim can make a stupid, self-sacrificing decision, Jason pushes forward and in front of him. "We'll walk."

Because there is no question who would be allowed to ride in front and who would get locked up in the dark, cramped space behind. It is one of Bruce's favoured punishments for Tim. And it looks like he chose the car accordingly. Things will be bad, but Jason has not yet learned not to fight.

Bruce nods as if it is all the same to him. "If you make it until sundown, you'll get dinner."

They do not get dinner.

Jason is the one who ruins a perfectly good vigilante and pushes him over a line they did not know was drawn in the sand. He wants to go to the new production of Macbeth. He is the reason they are on the road that night, right in the path of a man driving drunk. He gets Alfred killed. It is all downhill from there.

Tim is also Jason's fault. He saw the kid first, following after them at night with his camera and absolutely no sense of self-preservation. He should have been subtler, should have taken the kid aside and told him to stay away in a way that worked.

Instead, Tim kept following them and, one night, hit with a dose of fear toxin, revealed he knows who Batman is. Tim's parents got served a lawsuit for criminal neglect two days later and Tim officially became part of the Wayne household a week after that.

For days, Jason did not sleep, waiting for the inevitable, wanting to apologize for ruining another life but not knowing how. The first time a bruise darkened Tim's cheek, he knew it would not do any good.

He is still trying to protect Tim as much as he can.

Bruce is waiting for them in front of the inn, drinking from a half-empty water bottle.

"What exactly was your plan?" he asks calmly. He is his most dangerous when he is calm.

Tim is eyeing the water, his eyes lingering too long before he turns towards Bruce. "We wouldn't tell anyone." He does not clarify what he means. He does not need to, of course. There are a hundred damning things to pick from.

It is still the wrong answer, Jason knows, and winces. Strike one.

Bruce shows no outward sign of what he thinks. "Jason?" he prompts instead.

But Jason is tired, too. Tired and thirsty and on the verge of lying on the dusty ground and just giving up. "What the fuck do you think?" he snaps.

It is usually not a good idea to make Bruce angry. The thing is, he already is. Now it is all about damage control. About not drawing things out. The longer Bruce has to think about things, the worse it will get. He already had two weeks to simmer. Two weeks of running and they are back to square one.

"Language," Bruce says without inflection. Strike two.

He gets to his feet and picks up the bottle, only to casually empty it out on the ground between them. For a moment, he watches the water sink into the dirt like a declaration of what is to follow.

"Come," he orders. And, like beaten down fools, they do.

Turns out, Bruce does not need a trunk. The closet in the inn is lockable and small enough to be uncomfortable. It is not, however, soundproof like the one in the manor.

Jason tries to keep quiet, but Bruce has both experience and patience. He knows how long he has to hit Jason and where, to make it really count. To make him bite his lip bloody and then cry out anyway.

Tim still does not have a lick of self-preservation, because he hammers against the closet door, drawing attention in a way that is dangerous. Jason does not want him to be locked in, but he wants him to be dragged out and beaten right alongside Jason even less. They all have their roles to fill, and Jason is not as fragile as Tim. He has taken beatings long before Bruce ever took him in.

Just like Tim knew isolation before Bruce ever built a sensory deprivation chamber just for him.

"Next time, I should send Superman after you," Bruce says the next morning when they are in the car, driving back towards Gotham. "I'm sure he could make the lesson stick."

Jason shudders. He sits primly, careful not to let his bruised skin touch the back of the seat. Of course, Bruce knows to accelerate fast enough to push them all back far enough to count.

He can only imagine the damage Superman could do if he puts his heart in it. The few times they have met, Superman was always genial, careful when handling normal things and people. Bruce is good at keeping up facades, too, though. Jason does not want to find out how Superman gets rid of his frustration.

Tim is friends with Conner and he never let anything slip. Then again, neither do Jason or Tim.

For a man his size, Bruce knows how to move quietly. It only adds to the quiet threat of omnipresence he likes to wield. There is nowhere they can hide without him finding them, nothing they can say without him hearing it. Privacy is nothing more than a pipe dream in the manor, and Jason has learnt to expect that everything he does will be used against him.

Bruce appears in the door to the dining room, where Jason is trying to get caught up with school work. When they arrived back, Jason's work was laid out for him on the table and he was ordered to get started on it immediately. He could only watch helplessly, as Bruce led Tim further into the manor to lock him up for who knows how long.

"Dick will come for dinner. He wants to hear all about your vacation to Metropolis," he says, his tone mocking but not hiding the threat behind the words.

They will have to conjure up stories about a happy trip that never happened. Not that Jason particularly wants to talk about the truth, about failing to run away, about all the reasons why they even felt they needed to in the first place.

Jason has never found out whether Dick knows what is happening in Wayne Manor behind closed doors. He does not think that Bruce ever touched Dick. The first time Bruce hit Jason was after Alfred died, long after Dick had moved out. Also, Jason could never imagine yelling at Bruce the way Dick does. Jason snaps and curses and shows his teeth, but only when he knows punishment is inevitable. The waiting is always the worst thing for him. Dick, on the other hand, often seems to argue just for the sake of arguing. Jason could never. He does not have a death wish.

Jason straightens his shoulders. "Is there anything specific you want us to prepare?"

Sometimes, Bruce gets out Alfred's cookbooks and gives them impossible tasks in some attempt to relive the old days. Or to set them up for failure. He does not need a reason to punish them, but he still likes to make some up.

Bruce shakes his head and says, "Tim can cook. You and I will train."

Jason swallows. They have been back for barely a day and every movement is hell, pulling on the welts littering his back. He merely nods, though. If Tim is to cook, then Bruce will have to let him out of the chamber. That is good. He will gladly take a few more bruises for that.

Dick comes in bright and smiling. He engulfs Jason in a hug that Jason is sure reopens some of the cuts on his back. He does not make a sound.

"Jaybird. I was so jealous when B told me about your vacation." He pouts as he turns to greet Tim, too. "Why didn't you invite me? We could have made a proper outing of it. All us brothers on the road."

Brothers, Jason thinks and almost scoffs. Tim is his brother, cemented in misery and blood and the doomed need to protect each other. Every minute Tim is out of his sights just allows anxiety to grind down Jason's insides further.

Dick, on the other hand, is just the kid Bruce took in before them, who once did not like Jason for taking his place while not bothering to check whether Jason actually still wants to be here. He is an infrequent guest, who puts Bruce in either a worryingly happy mood or a terrible one. Neither of which is actually good for Tim and Jason. A happy Bruce gets creative. An angry Bruce is just cruel.

"We thought summer is a busy time for you. It was rather spontaneous," Tim answers diplomatically. He is wearing a sweater long enough to hide the burns on his arms. Of course, Bruce was not content with just letting him cook. "You know how it is. The lack of homework and exams paired with summer heat? We just wanted to get out for a bit." Or out for good.

Neither Jason nor Tim had to learn how to lie. True, they used to do it under drastically different circumstances, but at least Bruce deemed them both reasonably capable of keeping their mouths shut without doing it for them or locking them up indefinitely.

Dick sits down at Bruce's right hand, leaning into his space like there is nothing to it, like Bruce's hands are not just there, within easy punching distance.

"It's been ages since I took a vacation, though." He is making puppy dog eyes at them, including Bruce, who smiles in return, broad and honest. The sight just makes Jason's stomach churn.

"Next time, we'll take you," Tim says easily.

Next time. Bruce had said that, too. As if there truly would be a next time. They had their chance and blew it.

Tim moves to serve the soup. His hands are not as stable as Alfred's were, once upon a time. Might be that he has not yet shaken off the hours of being locked up. Might be the burns pressing against the hot china.

"Deal," Dick agrees with all the enthusiasm of someone missing any and all signs of the tension around him. "I hope you didn't get into too much trouble."

Tim and Jason share a quick look, brief enough that Dick does not notice. Bruce, of course, does. He always does.

"Trouble?" Jason takes over to allow Tim enough respite to try to serve the soup without spilling any. "You know Timbers. We were going from one museum to the next. No time for fun when there's things to learn."

No time for fun when they were fearing for their lives, either, but that is just another secret tucked away behind high walls and new scars. Trouble, however, they know intimately.

Picking up Tim was a stroke of luck for Bruce. There is no better way to control someone than by threatening someone they care about. Tim and Jason took to that lesson like ducks to water.

Jason would have either given up or done something drastic ages ago if it were just him and the vengeful bat in the manor. Now, if he goes two hours without seeing Tim, he gets nervous. And pliant.

And Tim, well, Tim will never not try to spare Jason, no matter what that means for himself. He has never learned to think of himself as someone worthy of protection, of love. Jason does his best to rectify that, but life is making that very hard, indeed.

The first time Bruce put a gun in Jason's hand, he thought it was a joke. Batman has rules, principles. Not taking lives is one of them. Probably the most important of them. Batman has gotten a lot laxer about his rules, however. And sending others to do his dirty work does not, apparently, count as breaking the rules at all.

He saw potential in Jason and now bleeds him dry using it.

"I can help," Tim insists one night, a secret whispered only once they are sure Bruce is out of the house. They have taken to sleeping in the same room, as if that would actually make them any safer. If he wants to, Bruce comes for them no matter whether the other watches.

"No," Jason denies him immediately. "I will not let you kill someone." Things are bad enough without loading that on Tim's conscience.

"I wouldn't do it myself," Tim argues stubbornly. "But I can arrange it. If you need a break."

And he could do it. Easily.

But Jason says, "No." And that is that. It is enough that his own hands are bloodied.

Tim's talents lie elsewhere, anyway. He is trained to fight like all of them, but the true magic happens when he is put behind a screen. Recon, research, finding patterns, writing up ridiculous complex formulas to predict all kinds of things, hacking anything and anyone he sets his eyes on.

Jason is strong and Tim is smart. Bruce uses them accordingly.

Bruce is restless. They have been back for a few weeks, but he does not seem willing to let it go, watching everything they do, just waiting for the smallest mistake. It is almost as bad as during those weeks after Alfred had just died. It had broken a dam when Bruce had struck Jason for the first time, when he realized how he could lessen his own pain by putting it on another.

"Perhaps we need to switch it up a bit, since you've been feeling so adventurous lately," Bruce says in the middle of dinner. He pushes away his plate, making Tim and Jason scramble to put their cutlery down. It is a principal rule that nobody eats once Bruce is finished. "Tim, go to the gym and wait for me there."

Tim stands up immediately, even though he looks wide-eyed at Jason before he moves to the door. It is not the prospect of a beating that scares him, Jason knows.

As if Bruce read their minds, he continues, "Jason, you know the way to Tim's chamber."

Chamber, of course, is an entirely cruel name for the cramped, dark box Bruce likes to lock Tim into, taking away his senses and freedom in one go.

"No." That is Tim, standing straight, one hand on the doorknob, not moving. He is pale and trembling, but he looks straight at Bruce, refusing to back down.

"What was that?" Bruce smiles and Jason feels a trap snap close around him.

Tim swallows, his knuckles going white around the doorknob. "I said no," he says, anyway, his voice the only thing that does not waver. And then he makes it worse by adding, "Running was my idea."

Jason is on his feet in an instance. "That's not true," he exclaims, almost stumbling over the words. "I stole the car keys. I convinced him to go."

They are left to glare at each other, unwilling to let the other take the fall, even though they know better, even though they know it is never about whose fault it is. They both ran. They both broke the rules.

"It seems we have a bit of a conundrum." Bruce waves Tim back in. "Sit."

He waits just long enough to watch them both do as they are told. Then he gets up himself and leaves the room, knowing they will not move. Not so soon after having been dragged back here.

When he returns, he has a switch in hand, well-used, familiar. He puts it down on the table between Jason and Tim. He has the gall to be still smiling.

"I think twenty strikes each sound fair. Tim will start." It is the calm in his voice that always, always gets Jason's blood boiling. The way he can sit there and just casually order them hurt. The way they always comply.

Tim remains where he is for a long moment, drawing deep breaths. Then he stands and, with entirely too steady hands, begins to pull his shirt off.

"Oh, no," Bruce interrupts, his smile turning into something sharper. "You will do the honours."

Shirt halfway up his torso, Tim freezes, expression filling with horror as realization dawns. Jason knows his face must mirror Tim's. This is not - Bruce hurts them. They do not hurt each other.

"No," Tim says for the third time this night. No one could ever say he is not brave. Bravery is the surest way to get himself hurt here.

"It's twenty if you do it. Of course, you'll have to repeat strikes if I don't think you're taking things seriously," Bruce says easily, looking at both of them in turn, making it clear what Jason will have to do, too. "If you make me do it, we double it."

Double. Forty. Jason swallows.

They look at each other, Jason and Tim, brothers in misery but also something far more precious. Jason loves Tim. Whatever else happens in this house, Tim is family and there are lines he will not cross. From the determination settling over Tim's features, Jason thinks - hopes - he feels the same.

Forty strikes from Bruce will be brutal. Even if they were to do it themselves, though, there is no telling whether Bruce would not have them repeat strikes to reach the same number, because there is no way Jason could hit Tim in a way that could ever satisfy Bruce. And that is not counting the psychological element of it. It is hard enough to be helpless, to watch when Bruce hurts Tim. He will not be complicit. Not any more than he already is.

"No," Jason says, his throat dry. It does not come out as strong as he hoped, but strength has never helped them anyway. "I will not hurt him."

"Is that so?" Bruce cocks his head to the side, sounding curious. "Tim?"

Wordlessly, Tim shakes his head and then finishes to pull his shirt off. He folds it, showing a calm Jason is certain he does not feel. Then he pulls a chair out of the way, braces his arms against the tabletop, and waits, staring unseeingly at the remains of their dinner.

"So obedient, all of a sudden." Bruce hums and just looks for a long minute. "Stay where you are. Jason, we'll begin with you."

That is the obvious choice, of course. The pain is just half the punishment. The rest is having to watch. Tim might not be fully present by the end. Why give him an easy out?

Jason swallows a curse as he gets to his unsteady feet. He does not bother to fold his shirt but simply throws it on the table.

"Count for me, Tim. And do take care. I'd hate to begin again if you miss one."

Every time, Jason thinks the anticipation is worse than the actual hits. Every time, Bruce proves him wrong.

"One."

"We have to do something," Jason says, two nights later. Bruce is out on patrol and Jason has taken a jammer out of the cave. He is not going to let Bruce overhear this.

Tim sits up in bed. "What can we do?" he asks, sounding utterly exhausted, which has little to do with neither of them being unable to sleep. "Do you think the car broke down out of the blue? You know Bruce. He's weird about his cars."

Which means he let them run for two weeks, just waiting for the right time to bring them low. Like a cat playing with its prey.

"It's only going to get worse."

Tim nods in agreement but still scoffs. "And who'd believe us?"

"Look at us," Jason says, pointing at where bandages peek out from under Tim's sleep shirt. "Who wouldn't believe us?"

"Let me rephrase that." Tim rolls his eyes, Jason knows despite the darkness. "Who would believe us that we could actually contact without Bruce knowing and who would do something about it?"

Jason knows exactly what Tim means, of course. They have been adopted by Bruce Wayne. They should count themselves lucky for that privilege. Surely, being slapped around a bit is an adequate payment for a life otherwise lacking nothing. Nothing that Bruce does not withhold from them.

"You're the computer whiz," Jason says, aiming for a lighter tone and falling painfully short. "Don't tell me it's impossible to get a message out. Hell, one picture should be enough." At least until Bruce's money and lawyers make it like no evidence ever existed. That is the oldest story in the book. Money dictates the world.

"It's not impossible." Tim shrugs. He likely has played through all possible scenarios already. "I just don't know how quickly he'll notice. We can't be around when he finds out."

An involuntary shudder runs through Jason. Getting caught at trying to run away again, after the first time went so terribly wrong just a few weeks ago, could just be the thing that tips Bruce entirely off the edge. And he is barely clinging on as it is.

"He hasn't killed us yet. He likes it too much to have his own personal punching bags," Jason says, although it does not come out as convinced as he would hope.

What if Bruce does tire of them? Worse, what if he wants to exchange them for a younger, less troublesome model and Jason has to die knowing he has condemned another person to this hell?

Tim looks at him, too young and too serious. "He also hasn't had us hurt each other before. Things like this always get worse."

The words settle between them, making the air taste bitter. Although that might just be the bile at the back of Jason's throat.

"So what?" he finally asks. What can they do, if staying is not an option but running is hardly feasible either?

"Superman isn't an option. The way Bruce talks about him, he might already know," Tim says, falling into the familiar rhythm of presenting research. "I can try Conner, though. I mean, I can call for him without technology."

Their civilian identities are still a secret, of course, so they cannot know that Conner will answer if it is not Robin calling.

"And then?" Jason asks anyway. "Wonder Woman loves children."

She pretends to, at least. Then again, Bruce likes to get photographs with the babies at orphanages, too, whenever he has to visit for the Maria Wayne Foundation.

Tim smiles bitterly. "I'm not sure the Justice League will forsake their bankrolling member just because of us." There it is again, the problem with the money.

"Gordon?"

But Tim shakes his head before Jason has fully finished saying the name. "He has taken Batman beginning to kill without protest."

True. So much for the only upstanding commissioner of Gotham.

"Dick?"

They look at each other, full of the same gnawing hesitation. This might be their last chance. They cannot botch it up.

"Assuming he doesn't know," Tim picks up the idea as if it is not a giant, uncertain if. "What could Dick do against Batman?"

The mere thought is laughable, so Jason points out, "Nothing. But against Bruce? He could get us out of the house. He will never reveal Batman's identity and he wouldn't let us do it either, Bruce knows that." Allowing himself a moment of weakness, Jason says, "We could just go living with our older brother."

He expects Tim to shoot down such a stupid pipe dream immediately. Instead, Tim studies him, his features somehow sharper than before.

Then, without the slightest trace of hesitation, he says, "We could also kill him."

"Tim," Jason exclaims, immediately looking at the door, half expecting Bruce to appear as if summoned.

"What?" Tim asks dryly. "He must know we'd think of that eventually. We're trained. He's paranoid but he can't be on alert all the time."

It is true and Jason will not lie and say he never thought about it before. Taking a life, now that he has had practice, is not hard at all. They would have to carefully prepare, but it should be doable. It would, however, just get them into a whole new world of trouble.

"We're not killing Batman," Jason decides, sounding more convinced than he feels. "We're not killers. Not when he does not force us to be."

Tim nods and some of the tension bleeds out of him. "All right."

A small part of Jason is disappointed at Tim's quick acquiescence. "Just like that?"

"I just wanted you to know that's an option." Tim reaches out in the dark, finds Jason's hand and squeezes it. "I would - you know. For you."

Jason turns his hand so they are holding each other. "If it ever comes to that, I would, too. For you."

They do not let go of each other until the sun rises outside.

They needle Dick long enough that he agrees to take them to some kind of event in the zoo. Jason has already forgotten what it is about, but it coincides with an important board meeting at Wayne Enterprises, so they are reasonably sure to be free of Bruce for at least a few hours.

On the way to the zoo, Tim, admirably, keeps up with Dick's excited chatter, pretending for all the world to see that nothing is wrong. Nothing at all. Jason grunts out responses when needed and otherwise tries to keep his heartrate under control. He hopes his lack of excitement can be put down as him being a moody teenager and feeling himself too old to go to the zoo with his brothers. He has never had a talent for acting, and he will not start to try with so many things hinging on this going right.

Once at their destination, they make sure to pass at least four security cameras and then dive into a crowd where it is loud enough that their phones will have trouble picking up their conversation if Bruce decides to listen in. They still ditch their bags there for the moment - and Dick's, too - just to be sure. Bruce is not the only one who can be paranoid. Then they drag Dick off into a corner of the zoo with fewer people and, more importantly, no security cameras.

"What's going on?" Dick asks, because he, too, was trained by the greatest detective and, of course, knows that something strange is happening. He does not resist them, however, which has to count for something.

"We need to talk to you," Tim says simply, sounding like he is chewing glass. "Only you."

Dick raises an eyebrow at the implication but nods, tersely.

When they are suitably out of the way, Jason looks at Tim, suddenly breathless. Are they really doing this? Well, it is now or never and Jason has never liked waiting.

"We noticed you are yelling a lot at Bruce."

That is not exactly how they were going to start the conversation, but Jason needs to know. All of their plan hinges on Dick being clueless as to what is going on in the manor. After how their last plan ended, Jason is not willing to take any chances.

Dick's shoulders slump. "Boys, it's -" He trails off, looking miserable. His face is so open, guileless. "I'm sorry if it's making you uncomfortable. It has nothing -"

Jason cuts him off, not able to stand the uncertainty any longer. "Has Bruce ever hit you?"

Out of the corner of Jason's eye, he sees Tim wince. He shrugs at him. They are on a strict schedule. They cannot be out of sight of cameras and out of the range of their phones for long.

Dick is staring, opening and closing his mouth several times, before he manages to ask, "What are you talking about?"

Jason crosses his arms in front of himself and shifts slightly, just so that he can slip fully in front of Tim if it becomes necessary. "Has he?" he then demands. Before he does not have a satisfying answer, they cannot push further.

"No, of course not," Dick exclaims, entirely too loud before remembering where they are. Much quieter, he continues, "I know it's not good that we keep arguing so much but -" Dick cuts himself off as he takes a closer look at them, at their sombre expressions, at the way Jason's hands are digging into his arms and Tim is standing entirely too straight. "Did something happen?"

In a measured tone, Tim asks, "Would you believe us if we said that Bruce hit us?"

Dick flinches back and stares at Tim, stares like he can open up their heads and find out exactly what is going on. He clears his throat, but his voice still comes out rough. "Us as in both of you?"

Tim turns abruptly and, after a quick glance around, lifts the back of his shirt. Their backs are looking better, the bruising already more green and yellow than angry blue. The places where Bruce drew blood, however, are unmistakable. Fine, parallel lines like a confession.

"Forty strikes," Tim says, voice sharp, clinical. He has no intention of pulling his punches, so to speak. This might be their only chance. "Well, forty-four, because he did Jason first and then had to start over several times with me because Jason was fighting to stay conscious and did not start counting quickly enough."

Jason wants to close his eyes at the memory, but he keeps watching Dick. This is the moment of truth.

Pure horror takes over Dick's face and Jason cannot help his relieved sigh. Dick did not know. Dick does not approve.

Jason reaches out blindly, finds Tim's arm and squeezes. He is not sure he can keep standing on his own. Tim shrugs his shirt back on properly and then moves against Jason's side. They have practice keeping each other up.

"Is this - are you -" Dick takes a deep breath, then tries again. "Was this the first time?"

"No," Tim says and smiles, no trace of humour on his face. "Far from it."

Dick leans back, pressing his hand against his mouth. He does not look away, however, does not hide his terror. "And you both - you - your trip?"

He is smart, quickly connects the dots. Jason tries not to feel bitter about the fact that they might have gotten help earlier, if only Dick had deigned to see them.

"We were running away," Jason admits, shaking off his misgivings. He learned early on in life not to cry over what ifs. "Unsuccessfully, of course."

To give him credit, Dick does not ask why they did not come to him sooner, why he seems to be their last resort. He knows Bruce, perhaps not as well as they do, but well enough.

"We can't get him arrested."

They know that. Bruce has too much money, too many lawyers just waiting to do his bidding. He has the Justice League and Gotham's police. They are just two kids with nowhere else to go.

Jason and Tim stay silent. They both agreed on the importance of this. Dick must want to help them, must offer to help on his own. Otherwise, he will never stare down Bruce for them to tell him he will lose them both. Well, all three of them, at best.

They watch as Dick thinks, fighting to correlate the Bruce he knows with what he has just learned. Then, he sets his jaw. "What can I do?"

Jason feels like he is taking his first real breath since their stolen car broke down. Tim finds his hand and holds on for dear life. They are not alone anymore.

#Whumptober2024 #no.8 #isolation chamber #batman #fic #child abuse #dark bruce wayne #running away #tim drake #jason todd #dick grayson #my writing

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thoughtsaboutbats · 10 months ago

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When Tim first started seeing the harsh lines that form the boxes that now followed him around daily, he thought he was going crazy. They weren’t the first thing to make him think that of course, if they were the only sign he’d just think he needed to see an optometrist. No, the first thing to make him question his sanity was his conviction that Bruce was alive despite the literal corpse they had buried, just because of one painting that kinda looked like him.

The second sign was when he realized none of this was real. That one he had pushed hard against. Obviously the world was real, he was real, how else could he even be questioning his existence. He’s pretty sure that’s what Descartes was going on about (that’s the guy that said I think therefore I am, right? Tim wasn’t so sure. Philosophy wasn’t his thing).

This revelation had worried him so much he almost gave up his search for Bruce, and he had even been looking into antipsychotics when Ra’s ninjas found him in Paris. He didn’t tell them he thought their entire universe was fake of course, it wouldn’t do for Ra’s to know he was losing it, but he did lay out his evidence for Bruce being alive and lost in time, and they seemed convinced enough that it was possible, so he kept going. At least now he knew he wasn’t completely out of touch with reality. Probably. He didn’t think there was a reason Ra’s would have his people help Tim search for evidence that was all in his head but you never know with Ra’s.

The boxes had started appearing sometime between when Tim first encountered the ninjas and when he finally accepted their help. They were thin, practically non existent lines hovering in the air in seemingly random places. Sometimes they were big and distant, even going so far as looking like a strange line in the sky. Sometimes they were so close to him, they looked like someone was putting a frame around his face, or the person he was talking to’s.

He knew, instinctively that they were the reality of his fake world. The boxes he saw were the way people outside his reality saw what was happening. How they made it happen? He definitely didn’t have enough brain space to process that without actually going crazy. But he knew he wasn’t real, no one and nothing he knew was real. They were characters, playing their parts in the narrative.

Or he was going crazy.

But when he stumbled to his feet in that desert, blood pouring out of the hole in his abdomen where he had been stabbed through just a moment ago, surrounded by the corpses of the assassins he had befriended, Pru desperately trying to suck in air around the blood pour down her throat, he really didn’t care if he was crazy or not. They were hours out from the city at this point, and he had no clue where any nearer settlements were, let alone how to get to them without setting off any of the explosives buried in the sands. There was no hope of getting to the medical care they needed. Unless Tim wasn’t crazy, and he was actually seeing their hotel room, just a few short feet away though one of the boxes.

The decision to try to step through the box was easy. After some rudimentary first aid to slow the blood flow from both of their injuries, Tim pulled Pru up, looped her arm over his neck and dragged them both through the there-not there box.

What he saw as he traveled between boxes, between panels, was something he couldn’t describe properly if he tried. The closest he could get would be it was live stepping into a perfectly white room, no shadows anywhere, no way to tell where the floor became the wall. Except that one side of the room was full of windows that each showed snapshots of his life. He could see, just above his head, close enough he could reach into it if he tried, the moment that Widower had stabbed him. The words the widower had said in that moment floated there in neat little bubbles.

The other side of the room though, hurt to look at. Attempting to even look at it long enough to describe was like looking at the sun, except it was his brain that was overwhelmed rather than the photoreceptors of his eyes. He knew though, that that was where reality lay, and that trying to go over there would almost certainly destroy him.

Tim didn’t stop to stare at any of this though. His goal was to get Pru and himself into their hotel room and get help. In just a few short strides he was there. The angle this panel was at wasn’t nearly as convenient to step through as the first, as it was a downward shot of the room that left him with no choice but to basically jump down from the ceiling. He managed the jump without breaking a leg or dropping Pru though, and they both fell back onto the bed. He heard the door open and someone exclaim at the sight of them just before he passed out from blood loss.

#Tim Drake #red robin (2009)#fanfic #my fanfic #meta Tim Drake #fourth wall break #kinda?#inspired by a convo in the Capes and Coffee discord and last weeks prompt for What Do They Eat

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twistedtummies2 · 1 month ago

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Top 15 Portrayals of Dr. Frankenstein

“What makes a monster, and what makes a man?” This quote from a Disney movie, of all things, weirdly sums up one of the central themes of Mary Shelley’s masterwork, “Frankenstein, or the Modern Prometheus.” In my previous countdown - where I discussed my favorite versions of the Frankenstein Monster - I said that Shelley’s novel is widely considered the first piece of sci-fi horror, not only because its title character is a scientist who attempts to use science to create life, but because the themes and ideas present in the novel are ones most common in science fiction, and especially “science horror,” to this day. In Shelley’s original novel, Victor Frankenstein is NOT a doctor. (Although I will be calling him “doctor” throughout this list, for various reasons. Deal with it.) Instead, he is a medical student studying to BE a doctor, who becomes so obsessed with the idea of not simply saving but CREATING life it drives him practically to madness. While Victor in the book is NOT the villain, you’d be hard-pressed to call him a hero, either…and that is the point. The book is filled with a lot of morally gray elements and ethical questionability, especially on the part of Frankenstein himself; while the Creature he constructs ultimately does turn out to do terrible things, it is largely because it has known nothing but scorn and neglect. This all begins when his “father” - after driving himself to bedlam creating the fellow in the first place - outright abandons him for, to be blunt, really petty reasons. Victor, in the novel, isn’t necessarily evil, but he IS extremely irresponsible and…well…frankly a bit of a drama queen. (I can relate, sadly.) His personal flaws and bad decisions lead to his own self-destruction, and the ruination of everything he holds dear. It is largely through him that a lot of the questions of the story we now associate with science horror come through: what happens when someone seeks knowledge too fervently? Do the means of gaining greater understanding of the world justify the ends? If we explore in certain directions, and don’t know when to hold back, will we find things out we really aren’t prepared to know? Are there, frankly, just some things man shouldn’t tamper with…and if we DO tamper with them, will we be capable of dealing with the consequences of our actions? That’s essentially the basic point of nearly every work of science fiction, especially of the darker variety: whether the “Monster” being faced comes in the form of advanced technology, extraterrestrial entities, unknowable cosmic forces, or biological scourges…it all seemingly begins with Frankenstein and his poorly-handled Monster. It’s for this reason you’ll sometimes find memes and posts that say, “Frankenstein IS the monster,” referring to Victor: the line between good and evil in the story is an extremely thin one, and while Victor never INTENDED to do any real harm, that does not excuse the harm that IS caused by his actions and inactions alike. Throughout different adaptations and reimaginings, Frankenstein has, as a result, been depicted in varying states of moral standing. Some versions take the flaws inherent in Shelley’s novel and go all the way with them, making the mad scientist into a villainous cad who will stop at nothing in his self-centered, arrogant attempts to basically play God. Other versions actually soften the character, giving him more redeeming qualities as he actually tries to do genuine good with his work, only for things to inevitably and unfortunately go awry all the same. Victor is neither of these in the novel, but both directions - and many more - can be fascinating in different ways. Keeping this in mind, it’s time to delve into the heart of darkness: these are My Top 15 Favorite Portrayals of Dr. Frankenstein!

15. Tim Curry, from Frankenstein: Through the Eyes of the Monster.

I’m going to presume most of you know about Tim Curry’s star-making performance as Dr. Frank-N-Furter in the musical “Rocky Horror Show,” and its film adaptation “Rocky Horror Picture Show.” This cult classic musical was effectively a parody of Frankenstein…but, just like with the previous countdown, I didn’t think it was fair to include it, since I feel it’s really a bit more of its own thing, even if the parallels are obvious. HOWEVER, that doesn’t discount the time Curry played the ACTUAL Dr. Frankenstein, in this point-and-click adventure game. “Through the Eyes of the Monster,” as the title implies, puts the player in the role of Frankenstein’s Creation, as you have to explore the mad scientist’s castle and escape to the outside world. Based on that premise, and the casting of Curry, the version of Frankenstein here is one of the more villainous ones, and it really is Curry’s performance that makes the game: I’ve never actually played this title (it’s EXTREMELY rare and hard to get ahold of, by all accounts), but I have watched a couple of walkthroughs/Let’s Plays of it, and…well, let’s just say they don’t say much to its quality. It’s typically considered a bad game. Curry’s wry, morbid, delightfully wicked and predictably over-the-top Frankenstein, however, is very, VERY fun to see in action. If he’d been in a better game, this entry would have been a lot higher.

14. Grant Moninger, from TMNT (2012).

In the 2012 version of “Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles,” there was a four-part story arc where the Turtles - alongside a time traveler named Renet - had to face the Universal Monsters, who were being led by a demon called Savanti Romero. In the third part of the story, Romero and his monster army traveled to Castle Frankenstein, where they manipulated Dr. Frankenstein with plans to use his Monster as part of their team. Both the doctor and his creation were voiced by Grant Moninger; a casting choice that does not appear to be mere coincidence. There was a lot of promise to this version of the scientist, but I don’t think it really reached full maximum: as much as I loved this story arc, the stuff with Frankenstein, in particular, seemed a bit rushed. This version actually makes the good doctor…well…a GOOD doctor, as he befriends the Turtles and actually comes to genuinely care for his Creation, despite his initial disgust. Unfortunately, we never really got any closure for the “Frankenstein Family,” and the shift from horror to acceptance seemed rather quick, as all of the doctor’s stuff was shoved into this one chapter of the four-part tale. I liked seeing a more sympathetic take on Frankenstein, and the interactions he had with Donatello and his Monster (nicknamed “Frank” by Mikey) were really nice, but I wish they’d just done more and given him more time.

13. Donald Duck, from Disney’s Frankenstein Starring Donald Duck.

I’m hoping a lot of you will remember, from my past Dracula-related lists, the time Disney made a graphic novel version of “Dracula,” starring Mickey Mouse as Jonathan Harker and the Phantom Blot as the Count. Well, in that comic adaptation, none of the characters from the Donald Duck universe appear. This is because they were all saved for another graphic novel that was made concurrently: Disney’s Frankenstein. (Also, no, I’m not counting Runaway Brain here, just as I didn’t count it on the previous list. Sorry.) Just like the “Dracula” comic, this book actually sticks pretty darn close to Shelley’s story and text (though it naturally softens up some of the nastier bits), and there’s a lot of little in-jokes throughout the story that you’ll really only understand if you’ve actually read the book. In this version, Donald plays the role of the mad scientist, except instead of stitching together a monster created from cadavers out of rifled graves (bravo if you got that reference, by the way), he makes his Creature out of cardboard. While this was a very fun and funny entry, I personally prefer the work on “Dracula” a bit more: I just think it’s funnier (as well as even weirder, to be honest), and the casting there is even more enjoyable. Still, this is definitely a charming companion piece.

12. Boris Karloff, from Mad Monster Party.

This Halloweentime film was a rare cinematic release by Rankin/Bass: the company best known for their holiday TV specials, such as “The Year Without a Santa Claus” and “Here Comes Peter Cottontail!” This is essentially a Rankin/Bass Halloween special, but expanded to feature length and released on the big screen. In it, Boris Karloff (whose animated puppet is a caricature of himself) plays the role of Dr. Frankenstein, rather than his Creation. It’s revealed that Frankenstein is actually the leader of an organization of famous horror icons, including Dracula, the Invisible Man, and his own Monster, just to name a few. However, the old doctor is getting on in years, and decides it’s time to step down and choose a successor in the form of his nephew: a wimpy, shrimpy clutz named Felix. The Monsters, appalled at this suggestion, plot to steal Frankenstein’s newest experiment - a special explosive - and assassinate Felix, so they can have the league to themselves. Then, without the good doctor to keep them all in check, they shall - what else? - take over the world. Karloff essentially plays a sort of exaggerated version of himself in this movie, which is, on its own, very fun to watch. His Dr. Frankenstein is a morbid and spooky soul, but he’s not really evil, unlike the Monsters he apparently controls. SPOILER ALERT: he even ends up sacrificing himself at the end of the film, to stop the villains from enacting their wicked schemes. The moment where he does so, for the record, is pure awesome: a word to the wise, DO NOT MESS WITH BORIS KARLOFF.

11. Robert Foxworth, from Dan Curtis’ Frankenstein.

Dan Curtis - famous for his work on the Gothic soap opera “Dark Shadows” - did a whole bunch of TV film and miniseries adaptations of famous works of classic horror, throughout the late 60s and early 70s. Among these were “Dracula,” “The Strange Case of Dr. Jekyll & Mr. Hyde,” and, of course, “Frankenstein.” At the time, Curtis’ adaptation of the lattermost story was probably the most accurate that had been put to the screen, taking significantly fewer liberties with the source material of Mary Shelley than any other. Foxworth’s Victor Frankenstein, appropriately, sticks mostly true to the source as well, though the movie seems to paint him more as an idealistic scientific dreamer who gets in over his head than anything else. This carries over into one of the biggest changes to the film, the ending. SPOILER ALERT: instead of vowing to hunt down his creature to the ends of the Earth, a mortally wounded Frankenstein instead realizes his many mistakes, and apologizes to his “son,” telling him to learn to forgive both himself and others with his dying breath. Of course, we can’t give the Monster a happy ending, - we’ll have no joy and justice here, thank you - so the poor Creature, still in a state of mourning, ends up shot and killed anyway before he can put this into practice. Scientist and creation thus die in each other’s arms. Poetic in its own way, I suppose.

10. Barret Oliver & Charlie Tahan, from Frankenweenie.

A sentimental parody of the 1931 Universal classic, the original “Frankenweenie” was a live-action short subject, created by Tim Burton while he was working at Disney. The story featured Victor Frankenstein (played then by Barret Oliver) as a young boy living in contemporary America. The boy is heartbroken when his beloved pet dog, Sparky, sadly dies. Inspired by a science demonstration at his school, Victor decides to try and bring his petn back to life. The short subject was released in 1984. It was honestly a very sweet story, albeit obviously one with a dark sense of humor, but Disney was dissatisfied with the results, and claimed that Burton had wasted company resources on the project. This led to Burton being fired from the company, which only gave him the chance to strike out on his own. Burton had supposedly always wanted the story to become a feature-length film; many years later, he came to Disney with a proposition to try and remake the short as an animated movie. By now, of course, Burton was a household name, and Disney agreed to give the project the go-ahead, provided he also made a couple of other movies for them at their stipulation. Burton agreed, and in 2012, a stop-motion animated feature of “Frankenweenie” was released. This time, Victor was voiced by Gotham’s Scarecrow himself, Charlie Tahan. It followed the same basic beats as the short, but - by virtue of being longer, as well as animated and having the benefits of modern technology - it was able to go much further with its subject matter. Without going into too much detail, in the film version, Victor’s experiments get even more out of hand than anybody could have anticipated. Both versions are very fun and very cute, while also having a delightfully decadent style to them only Burton could bring. I highly recommend you check both out, and pick a favorite for yourself.

9. David Anders, from Once Upon a Time.

“Frankenstein” was a bizarre choice of story to reimagine in this Disney-based show of family, love, and fairy-tales. However, the series found a way to make things interesting, and while I don’t think the Frankenstein story elements are perfect, David Anders in the role of the obsessed scientist is definitely a winning interpretation. In the series, it’s revealed that Victor Frankenstein comes from a world called “The Land Without Color,” where everything is in monochrome (a reference to the classic Universal movies). His experiments with creating life take on a new dimension, when he decides to try and use his theories to bring back his brother, Gerhardt, blaming himself for his sibling’s demise. However, no ordinary heart can withstand the intense electric energy needed to give his brother life…which is where things start to get particularly unusual. Frankenstein gets roped into a deal involving Rumpelstiltskin, the Evil Queen, and the Mad Hatter (wow, what a trio of characters) to gain a special heart from their own world in the Enchanted Forest. Only the “magic” of that heart is able to function properly and serve Victor’s purpose. The series blends science and magic together in a fun way, seemingly taking on the old idea of Clarke’s Third Law: “any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.” Anders’ portrayal of Dr. Frankenstein was extremely fun, giving the character a more sympathetic bend but also injecting a sort of eerie, icy, creepy composure to him. In the modern day scenes, Frankenstein goes by the alias of “Dr. Whale.” (Another reference to the Universal pictures, referring to James Whale, the director of the first two movies.) By both names, he was a recurring character throughout the series; I only wish we’d gotten more closure on how his experiments really went, or else he could have ranked much higher.

8. Kenneth Branagh, from Mary Shelley’s Frankenstein.

Released in 1994, this big-budget feature film was a direct response to the success of Francis Ford Coppola’s “Bram Stoker’s Dracula” released earlier in the same decade. While both films have a lot of similarities - generally staying true to the source, but also inventing a few new twists and really hyping up the sensuality of some characters (which I think works much better with Dracula than Frankenstein, for the record) - most agree that Coppola’s movie is the more successful one, and critics and box office records of the time seemed to agree. However, it does have its fair share of fans, and I suppose I’m among them. It’s not perfect, but to be blunt, neither is its “sister film.” Kenneth Branagh both directed the film and plays Victor Frankenstein - not uncommon with this Shakespearean-acclaimed performer. Branagh’s version of Victor has a raw, somewhat manic intensity in his passions, contrasted by the moments where he has to keep it all together and in-check for polite society. The most significant change to the plot is that, unlike in the novel - where Frankenstein never completes work on the Bride for his Monster - Victor actually goes through with the experiment, albeit for his own unique reasons. I won’t go into further detail for reasons of spoilers, but suffice to say, this version focused a great deal on Victor’s tragedy, while still making him the morally and ethically questionable obsessive of the novel. Never has the question of who is the real monster been more shrouded in gray area.

7. Benedict Cumberbatch & Jonny Lee Miller, from the National Theatre Production.

In 2011, a stage adaptation of Frankenstein was produced by the prestigious National Theatre in the UK. The play is a sort of semi-accurate retelling of the Shelley novel (it follows most of the major story beats, but cuts or slightly alters various elements), and has a lot of merits to it…but by far the most interesting part was the casting of Victor Frankenstein and his Creation. Throughout the run of the show, both roles were tackled by Benedict Cumberbatch and Jonny Lee Miller. (Both actors were popular for playing Sherlock Holmes at the time. Probably not a coincidence, though it’s an odd leap to make.) The two performers alternated parts over the course of the show’s time onstage, with Cumberbatch playing Frankenstein some nights, while Miller played the Creature, and then swapping roles the next round, over and over. Two nights of the show - each featuring different revolutions of the two leads - were filmed and shown on various screens around the world. As a stage actor, I can safely say no recording can PERFECTLY capture the beauty of any live theatre show, but at least it allowed folks who never got the chance to see it live a chance to take a peek for posterity. While both actors do an amazing job in both roles, I personally most enjoyed seeing Miller in the role of Frankenstein, with Cumberbatch in the role of the Monster. There was a brusqueness to the way he handled the part that Cumberbatch didn’t quite have; given how the stage version here ends, and what we learn about Victor (I’m not giving it away here), I feel that’s more appropriate to the character. Again, though, both performers are to be commended: if you get the chance, try to watch both versions and judge the performances for yourself.

6. Ian Holm, from “Mystery & Imagination: Frankenstein.”

In 1968, the UK-produced horror series, “Mystery & Imagination,” made their own adaptation of Mary Shelley’s classic novel. It’s actually one of the few episodes of this show I’ve seen, and of the few I’ve witnessed, it’s definitely my favorite. A big part of the reason why goes to the gimmick the episode used: casting both the Monster and the Doctor as the same person. That person, of course, was future Bilbo Baggins himself, Ian Holm. Before he ever ventured into the Shire, Holm had a long and storied career, playing everything from Richard III and other Shakespearean roles, to a couple of the most famous writers in history, such as J.M. Barrie and Lewis Carroll. It’s perhaps only natural that he would get to play not only Frankenstein’s creation, but Victor Frankenstein himself. Holm does a brilliant job in both parts, and it’s a worthy adaptation overall, mostly following Shelley but with a few unique twists. Holm would not be finished with Frankenstein once this production ended, either; he later played a supporting part in the 1994 film adaptation. I highly doubt this bit of casting was coincidental.

5. Alec Newman, from Frankenstein (2004 Miniseries).

Alec Newman is a name some fans of dark video games may recognize; among his body of work, he was the voice of Simon Belmont for the “Castlevania: Lords of Shadow” reboot trilogy, and also Jack the Ripper for “Assassin’s Creed: Syndicate.” It’s therefore somewhat unsurprising to learn that, before either of those came to be, Newman played one of Gothic horror’s most famous figures. This two-part miniseries is a highly underrated adaptation. It’s arguably the closest to the book ever made, at least that I’ve seen, as the longer running time and two-part structure allows for not only virtually everything in the novel to be given space, but allows for a few innovations and changes unique to this interpretation. Newman’s Victor Frankenstein, however, sticks more or less true to the source all the way through to the end, in terms of writing and general portrayal. If “definitive” can be taken to mean “truest to the original material,” then he is arguably the definitive version of Victor Frankenstein: starting off as an idealistic and romantic youth, whose passions become twisted as his naivete and rebellious obsessions ultimately lead to his downfall. His health declines, his fortunes decline, but perhaps most importantly, his very soul is effectively despoiled by his own negligence and imprudence. While he’s not the first person most people will think of when they think of the character, he’s definitely one of the most interesting portrayals to date.

4. Gene Wilder, from Young Frankenstein.

There have been several characters over the years who were not meant to be the actual Dr. Frankenstein himself, but rather his successors or descendants. Examples include Wolf von Frankenstein, the titular character of “Son of Frankenstein,” and Victoria Frankenstein, an upcoming female take on the mad scientist made for Universal’s “Dark Universe” attractions. (Look into that, by the way, seems like it could be interesting…unlike the last time Universal attempted a “Dark Universe” rebranding, but I digress.) However, I left such characters out of the running because…well…they’re not Victor Frankenstein. They’re his sons or daughters or general followers. I made an exception with Gene Wilder’s delightfully daffy Frederick Frankenstein, the title character of the Mel Brooks dark comedy classic “Young Frankenstein,” for one simple reason: it felt like a crime to leave him out of the running. This is mostly because, while the film does state that Frederick is the original Frankenstein’s grandson, the movie more or less follows, beat-for-beat, the familiar Frankenstein story: it takes the story beats we recognize from both the novel and the first two Universal movies and transforms the tragedy and horror into zany, satirical humor. The result is probably one of the greatest horror comedies in the history of movies, with Wilder’s Willy Wonka - I mean, Dr. Frankenstein at the very center of it all. He is HILARIOUS in this movie; I would argue quite possibly the funniest performance of his whole career, which is saying quite a lot. There was no way I could have forgiven myself if I didn’t include him in the Top 5.

3. Colin Clive, from the Universal Monsters Series.

While the iconography of the original Universal version of Frankenstein’s Monster (and the work of Boris Karloff in the role) cannot be denied, I often feel that Colin Clive’s work in the role of Dr. Frankenstein gets somewhat overlooked. In the first film, 1931’s “Frankenstein,” Clive is really the main character, and gives us a really strong intense performance that actually still really holds up to this day. The Universal Frankenstein is just as obsessive and ethically questionable as the one in the novel, but he’s a BIT less morally problematic. Unlike Victor Frankenstein in the book, HENRY Frankenstein (as the film strangely decides to rename him; the name of Victor is given to another character, for some reason) actually DOES try to care for his Creation and teach him. Henry even defends the Monster for a while, against his own skeptical mentor figure, Dr. Waldman. However, after the Monster commits his first bit of homicide - which was ENTIRELY justified as self-defense, I should add - Frankenstein is led to believe his experiment has been a failure, and feels he has no choice but to destroy his creation. I really, REALLY love Clive’s Frankenstein: he has lines and moments that are just as memorable and masterfully handled as any of Karloff’s pantomime in the first movie. It was also nice to see him return in the second film, “Bride of Frankenstein,” although his role in the sequel is strangely much smaller. You can tell they really wanted to focus on the Monster, realizing he was the moneymaking character; by the time the third film comes around, Frankenstein has died offscreen, and his adult son (played by Basil Rathbone) is in the process of…ahem…inheriting the family business, shall we say? As the man who made “IT’S ALIIIIIIIVE!” such a well-known bit of dialogue, Clive more than earns his place in my top three.

2. Peter Cushing, from the Hammer Horror Series.

While the ethics and moral standing of both Colin Clive’s Frankenstein in the Universal films, and Mary Shelley’s Victor in the original novel, are certainly up to discourse…there is no such debate with Peter Cushing’s take on the mad doctor. This is the second (and last) Frankenstein on this list, after Tim Curry’s version, who is just straight up EVIL. In fact, I may be wrong here, but I THINK this was the first time anyone depicted the character as an out-and-out villain before, at least in movies. Cushing’s Frankenstein is almost a Richard III sort of character, at least in his first outing of “Curse of Frankenstein.” We actually sympathize with him at the start of the movie, but as the film goes on, he becomes more and more of a dastardly scoundrel. By the end of the movie, even though his Creation certainly does their fair share of murder and mayhem, there is no doubt that Frankenstein himself is the REAL monster. And, like any great monster, Frankenstein seemed almost indestructible: in every single film, he would narrowly escape his own demise, and come back in another ready to try his experiments again. As the films go on, we see Frankenstein’s character change and shift, as he bobs in and out between a sort of sympathetic villainy and just being a cruel, callous, coldhearted cad. By the end of the series run, we realize there really is no hope for the mad doctor: he is lost in own obsession, unable to escape from it, even if he secretly sort of wants to. Never had the warnings of Shelley’s novel been so explicitly elaborated on, and - through good scripts and bad - Cushing carries the role with incredible power, dignity, and precision, his work just as meticulous as the character’s onscreen. While I personally will always think of him as Van Helsing from Hammer’s equally popular Dracula franchise, first and foremost, his Frankenstein is certainly nothing to scoff at, and is still widely considered one of the greatest.

1. Harry Treadaway, from Penny Dreadful.

On the previous list, I mentioned how Rory Kinnear’s take on the Creature (whom I shall henceforth refer to as “Caliban” for this description) was somehow one of the most faithful to Shelley’s version, despite the story of Penny Dreadful being obviously different from the original novel. I also mentioned that the Frankenstein characters of the series were probably my favorites of the whole show. (This is saying quite a lot, with icons like Dorian Gray, Count Dracula, and - most terrifying of all - Simon Russell Beale in the ranks.) Harry Treadaway’s Victor Frankenstein is not only no exception, he is the epitome: this was my favorite character in the show. Treadaway’s Frankenstein captures the spirit of Shelley’s original version, and mingles it with a number of new ideas and concepts, in a way that is absolutely spellbinding. This version of Frankenstein didn’t give up after his first “failed” experiment, and continues to look into creating life, for various reasons. The relationship between himself and Caliban is one of the most intriguingly twisted in the entire show (which, again, is saying quite a lot), as are his relationships with several other characters. Most notably, this one has Victor not only coming to grips with his own faults and actions, as he is lost in a cycle of poor-decision-making throughout the show, but also has him facing the idea that there are some things science just cannot explain or overcome. It was a great way of bringing the philosophies of a character and their story into a new medium, and it made Victor easily the most fascinating figure in a show filled with so many other interesting, dark, disturbed characters. I have no problems or hesitation whatsoever naming Penny Dreadful’s Dr. Frankenstein as my favorite take on the character. Case closed.

HONORABLE MENTIONS INCLUDE…

Samuel West, from Van Helsing.

As I’ve said in the past, I do have a soft spot for this very, VERY crazy “monster mash” movie. The opening sequence where we see Dr. Frankenstein’s deal with Dracula, and the creation of his Monster, is arguably one of the best parts, but West’s Frankenstein is killed before the 10 minute mark.

Dr. Henry Blackbrew, from V-Rising.

Just like with Adam the Firstborn, this game’s version of the Frankenstein Monster, “V Rising” created their own version of Dr. Frankenstein, and you’re even able to face him as a boss. Very fun, but I just didn’t think there was enough here to give him a slot.

Robert Powell, from Frankenstein (1984).

I mentioned this one on the previous list. This made-for-TV adaptation tries to follow Shelley’s novel in a truncated format, and has a very good cast. Powell does a decent job as the doctor, but the low-budget and untidy script don’t do his Frankenstein any favors.

Augustus Phillips, from Frankenstein (1910).

The very first film version of the mad scientist and his story…though, as I said on the past list, the film seems to misunderstand the entire crux of Shelley’s novel, reinterpreting Frankenstein’s quest for knowledge as more of a Faustian bit of black magic than actual science. Still, credit for kicking things off.

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jbaileyfansite · 1 year ago

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As we get past the halfway point of the Showtime series Fellow Travelers, there’s one aspect of the story that makes us wonder about the fate and state of mind of characters like Tim Laughlin. In an interview with Collider, Bridgerton star Jonathan Bailey opened up about how he sees his character (Tim) and why he makes some decisions that may seem controversial – especially when it comes to his potentially destructive relationship with Hawk Fuller (Matt Bomer).

The more we watch the series, the more evidence we have that Hawk will stop at nothing to protect himself and his reputation. Tim has certainly noticed this, and yet he keeps going back to Hawk in order to keep their relationship going, even though he could get hurt. Why does that happen? In Bailey’s opinion, this has to do not only with the era the series is set in – the 1950s – but also with the LGBTQIA+ and straight dynamics of the relationship. He explained:

"I think it's something fundamental to the existence of being in a society that doesn't accept you from a young age. I think Tim is so anxiously attached to his love that he feels he has to do everything to get love from his partner. Obviously, Hawk is the opposite. I think he's avoidant. I think the way that he manages things is that he allows Tim to deliver in the way that Tim wants to so that it's a functional relationship, and that then when the emotion that Tim brings to it is too much for Hawk to handle, and when Hawk's held accountable, and if he does something that destabilizes Tim, Tim explodes and then Hawk retreats and that is a perfect cycle. I think that's very common, not just in queer relationships, but it's a very common dynamic. Neither of them is secure, and so I think that is partly why they are drawn to each other and that cycle continues."

Bailey also added that he thinks Hawk and Tim’s relationship is “brilliant” to explore since Hawk can’t understand why "Tim cannot operate on any other level other than who he is and what he believes is right and wrong,” while Hawk is a person who can operate on multiple levels out of sheer self-preservation. Of course, the biggest discussion that this raises boils down to what lengths you’re willing to go to keep yourself closeted – and in the McCarthy era the answer to this question represented the difference between life and death.

Source

#jonathan bailey #jonny bailey #collider #collider interview #interviews #interviews:2023 #fellow travelers #NEW!

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ladypiscesmoon · 5 months ago

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Part 2 Q&A:

Timothée Chalamet & Armie Hammer

Since I forgot to put the answer to the following question in part 1, here we go:

Q: Armie told the story about their first rehearsal from cmbyn when Tim and him kissed and then Luca told them to stop and do it again with more passion. Luca left. What were their feelings in the first and in the second kiss.

A: Armie

First kiss: love, I just wish things were different (hermit tarot) love oracle cards, island time wellness: the golden mirror, the chaser

Second kiss: you matter, I don’t want to lose you, cassette, I like you

From the start he liked kissing Timmy. There was lust, but nothing serious from his side, but attraction. But he very much liked to be liked by Tim, as in a friendship way if they couldn’t have anything else. The podcast popped up in my mind, when he said that he sought validation of himself in everything he did. It started like: I like you, do you like me too? His marriage wasn’t in the best place already at that point.

Tim:

First kiss: I can’t even look at you right now, wait

Hand of cards, healing heart

He’s so intuitive, as if he knew from the start this was a wounded man and he had to be careful. There was some hesitation because he felt a bit embarrassed by how much he liked kissing Armie

Second kiss: the cards were flying everywhere, as so often when I read for Timmy. He can be quite “chatty”.

I’m coming, trust me, I could be your hero, baby. If I asked you to stay, would you leave? I still don’t know all the answers, let me hold you

Talking, love call, thinking of you and letting you know, not today.

Timmy instantly knew this was someone he was attracted to, had been dreaming about, manifesting someone like Armie. He liked kissing Armie but knew for the sake of the movie and him being married, he had to keep boundaries. He didn’t overstep, but the second kiss was like he was struck by lightning. He immediately decided to be his friend, if it could never be more, at least they would have that, he thought.

Q: How is Armie and Luca’s relationship now?

A: wheel of fortune, temperance. they will try to mend their relationship

Q: Armie said in an interview while promoting cmbyn that Luca and he have a very beautiful complicated relationship. Why he said that?

A:9 of wands reversed, ace of swords

Armie thought Luca had a pretty good read on him. He instinctively understood that Armie kept up a facade by being smug and confident. In reality Armie was already feeling lost and unhappy. The relationship with Luca and Timmy and making the movie “woke” Armie up. His life nerves the same after the shooting.

Q: what those think Luca of Armie and Timmy dating/being together?

A: Temperance reversed, 7 of cups reversed, 2 of swords, the fool

last summer, when they were doing well, he was happy for them. He knows they have a special bond. Lately he thinks they should talk to each other. He doesn’t understand their choices, it creates chaos between them. They have to make difficult decisions, but he hopes they can start over.He loves them both and want them to be happy.

Q: what did Timmy think of Armie’s and Luca’s relationship?

A: Prism oracle Protection, rest, isolation, fear

Timmy felt protected by the both of them. In the beginning he was afraid that he would feel isolated, but they proved him wrong.

Q: there was a bar in Crema that was about to close of some money issues and a lot of people donated. One of them was Douglas Hal, Timmy’s and Armie’s middle names. Did either of them donate?

A: 9 of swords, 8 of cups reversed

I don’t think either of them donated.

Q: That girl on TikTok that posted the pic of her and Timothée did she want more or tell him that?

A: King of cups reversed, temperance, 5 of pentacles

Looks like she thought she got the short end of the stick, it doesn’t feel like it was serious for Tim, but maybe she thought it could have been more. She felt left in the cold.

Q: why did she post it?

A: prism oracle rest, hunger, energy, abundance

She posted it because she wanted it to mean something. If not to Timmy at least she wanted to have support on line.

Q: How did Armie feel about it?

A: frustration, strength, faith

He wished it could have been him with Timmy. He tried not to let it disturb his peace of mind, he tries to have faith in the future.

Q: How dit Tim feel about it?

A: peace, magic, creativity

Timmy tried not to think about it, he distracted himself with filming like he always does when he is in trouble of there’s something on his mind. He tries to forgive himself for past mistakes, but he has a hard time with that.

Q: Do Timmy and Armie have an open relationship like can they hook up with other people while still being together?

A: I don’t know we can speak of a relationship at the moment, because they have so many things to sort out.

But no, they would like to be exclusive if they can work it out. Especially Armie. “No more bullshit” I heard. photo 1

Q: will Armie and Timmy have children in future?

Tower, 4 of wands

They might. Not in the near future I think. Too many issues to resolve and they have to talk first about a lot of things.

Q: what are Timmy’s thoughts about Armie’s tattoos?

A: I think he likes them, actually. He likes to trace them and he thinks Armie is hot with or without him. Sorry I couldn’t find the picture of the cards anymore. I remember taking one, though. Probably forgot to save it.

Q: will Timmy and Armie gonna live in Italy in future?

A: the world, 6 of swords, the star

They both love Italy. I think there’s a chance they may live there,

In future, or somewhere else in Europe like France or Great Britain

Q: does Armie occasionally mention Timmy to his kids?

A: the hermit, 4 of wands, ace of wands reversed.

No, I don’t think he does at the moment.

Q: Did Armie brought the kids to see Wonka?

A: 5 of wands reversed, 9 pf cups, the hermit

No, he didn’t, but wished circumstances would have been different and he could.

Q: when do we get good news from them?

A: I pulled a time card, but take it with a grain of salt as ever. Timing in tarot is, I’ve said this many times before, HARD

Photo 2

Q: do you see Timmy posting about Armie, his pictures and everything after they will start dating publicly?

The tower reversed, 3 of wands reversed, pace of wands reversed, 6 of wands.

I would be surprised. Timmy never posts anything personal anymore. I wouldn’t if I had so may followers and everybody tries to explain and analyses your every move or picture. He’s a very private man. Will he say something I about Armie in future? He would if it is work related but I doubt it would be really personal.

Q: the photo of Timmy in a white tank top with Luca in Italy, was Armie there with them.

A: ace of wands, 3 of swords reversed, queen of wands, the hierophant, 10 of cups.

I think Armie took that picture

Q: also that photo of Timmy in a cave swimming, was Armie with him?

Knight of wands, the magician, page of cups.

Yes, I’m convinced they had a vacation together in Italy last summer.

Q: how is the relationship between Timmy and Elle Fanning?

A: prism oracle: success, surrender, balance

Good, they like working together. They were friendly and concentrated on what they had to do.

Q: Timmy’s upcoming future projects will they as successful or his star power will be weakened?

A: some will be successful, others less, and he will feel disappointed about those that do average or worse.

Q: Timmy’s deal with Warner Brother do you see it be successful? Will he be able to get out of it?

5 of wands reversed, 10 of pentacles, death

I see him being successful but he has to stand up for himself. He probably doesn’t always want this deal. Again he has to say what he wants and not back off. He will feel a lot better if he does.

Q: Will Timmy have changes in his team or publicist?

A: 9 pf wands reversed, king of swords reversed, 8 of swords reversed.

Eventually he will. He’s struggling at the moment. He knows he’s unhappy, but he is so very loyal it backfires all the time.

Q: how is Tim’s relationship with his bodyguard?

Knight of swords, ace of pentacles, 9 of pentacles, prism oracle: comfort

A: is his name Jack? They seem to have a good relationship. But I’m not sure maybe he will be replaced in the end, because I think he lives in London and he probably can't be with Tim all the time.

Q: will Tim's wine business see the light? Will it be successful?

A: The moon, ace of swords reversed, 6 of pentacles reversed, king of wands reversed, page of pentacles

It doesn't feel good, but I can't put my finger on it. Im strongly feeling that the person he's is doing this with, could be an investor or a partner is manipulative and greedy.

Q: did Timothée grew closer to his dade more than his mom now?

A: prism oracle: love, rest, strength

He loves both of them very much, they love him also. His mother has a hard time with the Kylie situation, so their relationship was more strained last year. He is trying to mend that. Once she is out of the picture, he will succeed. But that's why we saw him with his father more.

Q: Did Timothée regret those pictures with Eiza?

A: Prism oracle: Ideation, mystery, cleanse, balance.

He seems to be embarrassed about them, he had to do it for work though. He tries to forgive himself for things he's not proud of. Sometimes his anxiety is really strong, I feel. It's okay to not have all the answers all the time, but again, he has to stand up for himself and stop doing things he's uncomfortable with.

Q: Does Tim sense any jealousy from Leo, or distance himself from Leo?

A: prism oracle: hunger, abundance, peace. The moon, 2 of wands reversed.

I dient feel any jealousy, but I don't think Leo is giving Timmy good advice. he listened to Leo a few times, now he's an a-liter himself, I think he should distance himself from Leo. But as said before, Time is loyal to a fault and he has a difficult time saying no to people.

Q: Did Timmy ever feel jealous of the relationship of Armie and Effie?

A: yes he was. He wished it was him and tried to put up a brave face by saying he didn't care. Photo 3

Q: Does Armie ever think of Effie or want to contact her again?

A:6 of cups, king of swords reversed, 7 of swords reversed

He rather not dwells on the past, but of course she is one of the reasons he lost his career. In a way it reminds him to do better. He would have liked to talk about why she blamed him and accused him, because he thought they talked about boundaries and things enough. He knows she is manipulative and that he has to stay away.

Q: What are Timmy's thoughts about Armie's tattoos?

A: I do think he likes them, actually. He like to trace them and he thinks Armie is hot with or without them. Photo 4

Who is more romantic, more flirty and more needy between Tim and Armie?

A: Photo 5 and 6

Both are romantic in a different way: Armie likes to give gifts, Timmy is giving his time and attention to Armie. Like calling, texting, sending pictures or a meme.

Bear in mind, not now!!!! I think they are still not a 100 percent. Tim is a big, big flirt. Armie is now more cautious and less open. He needs someone he can trust to open him up again. Tim knew from the beginning Armie was his person, but complications made him insecure and vulnerable. He also has a temper!! They both have and both say hurtful things to each other if they are not on the same page.

Q: There's a blind item that Tim's hooking up with a make-up artist can you check please?

A: pace of wands reversed, 8 of wands reversed, ace of pentacles, wheel of fortune.

It seems not. I wouldn't believe blind items anyway, it's usually bullshit.

One of the make-up artists may have thought they had a chance, but Timmy was uninterested.

Q: Can you see how Lisa Perejma feels about Armie and if they could get back in future

A: Lisa still seems to like Armie and wants to be with him. Photo 7 and the moon, the devil reversed, queen of wands reversed 10 of wands

As for there future, I think Armie doesn't feel it. Their relationship has run its course for him.

Q: were Lily and Timmy ever a real couple?

A: queen of pentacles reversed, judgment reversed, 4 of wands reversed

I think they were friendly, possible friends. Not a real couple no. And one of both were not satisfied with the arrangement. I think that Lily felt Timmy a tat uninterested.

Q: Is Armie broke (struggling financially)?

A: strenght, 3 of pentacles reversed, 6 of wands reversed, the hierophant reversed

He obviously lost a lot of income in the last years. I think he is not completely without means. He may have inherited something from his father

Q: how did Luca feel when he heard about Armie's attempt of suiside?

A: prism oracle rejection, flow, trust, conciousness.

He felt sorry and sad. He didn't think Armie deserved the total rejection, he only had to become aware of the things that held him back in life. He trusted and hoped that Armie would find a way to be happier in life.

Q: Will Armie ever go back to acting?

A: 10 of cups reversed, 2 of swords, 8 of wands reversed

At the moment it doesn't look like it. He still feels very alone and im not even sure he wants to go back to the Hollywood carnival. I can check in future of it changes.

Q: Will Armie do a movie this year?

A: Doesn't seem likely. See my previous answer

Q: what doe Timmy and Armie think of Charmies?

A: ace of wands reversed

They are not thinking about Charmies, certainly not with how things are at the moment between them

Q: Did Timmy use Armie in the promo of cmbyn for selling the movie and bromance in any kind of his own favor or was he just being himself and really liked Armie to this length?

A: the hermit, the tower

Its his job to promote and sell his movie. But no, Armie really turned his world upside down. He never had such strong feelings for anyone else.

Also he was really young at the time and not famous, so he was a lot more open.

Q: Please a quick update for how Timmy feels currently. Since he wrapped filming . Is he trying to end the PR with Kylie more aggressively or just staying passive.

A: Well, we all know how that went with Kylie. 3 of cups reversed, 3 of pentacles reversed, 5 of swords reversed, 10 of wands, the star

prism oracle:space, passion, reflection, hunger, protection

he feels awful. He thought he protected himself by being passive and having the excuse of filming, but they don't buy it. He feels really dumb and alone. He's stuck. he knows he has to reflect on it and stand up for himself, but he feels stuck and unprotected, has a lack of passion, would like to flee.

Q: Is this PR ruining Armie and Timmy? I feel there is no coming back now

A: Prism oracle: magic, comfort, peace, success

If Timmy will finally stand up to the Karjenners, Armie and he are going to find their way back to each other. But at the moment Armie is just waiting until Timmy stops with this charade. He tries to stay calm and peaceful and comfortable.

Q: Did Timmy renew some aspect of a deal? Or is it necessary to follow a timeline towards a break-up announcement? I'm a little confused.

A: the hermit, king of cups reversed, 5 of wands, 3 of wands

I don’t know, but when I saw these pictures something didn’t sit right with me. There’s something strange, but I don’t know what.

They probably renewed or negotiated part of the deal, because Timmy didn't commit earlier and hides all the time. He used the filming of acu as an excuse and I think he thought that was it. So, yes, because he didn't stand up for himself, the energy changed and here we are again waiting for all this to end officially. He feels so sad, so stuck, so lonely. But he can and has to do something about it, or he will be stuck longer.

Q: What are Armie's thoughts about this new sighting with Kylie? Will this make things worse for them? Is there still a chance for Tim and Armie to go on a vacation after this?

A: I think I partly answered this in the previous ask. But no, at the moment it doesn't look like they gonna meet up soon. In part 1 I already stated that they wanted to talk and meet up but that there were obstacles and people against it. I think we have our answer now. Armie is not gonna budge as long as Kylie is in the picture.

Q: How does Pauline think about this Kylie stuff?

A: pace of wands reversed, 10 of wands

She thinks Timmy has to do take responsibility for what he did. She thinks that family is bad news. He has to get rid of them.

Q: What does Elizabeth think about the Kylie situation?

A: judgement reversed, 3 of cups reversed

she likes to gossip about it, hopes that Armie and Timmy will never be together again. Judges but not in a nice way.

*alleged/for entertainment purposes

#q&a questions #celebrity tarot #armie and timothée #armie hammer #timothée chalamet

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