#This fandom just doesn't want to like jason

[asofspades]

I had a random thought pop up in my head, you guys remember that scene of percabeth in Tartarus that the fandom so lovingly calls "dark Percy moment" right(?) you remember how the reason Percy was terrified was not his power but how much he'd scared Annabeth. I want you now to think of how everyone views every single ability of Nico as unsettling or terrifying, Percy being scared after Nico's first outburst of power, all of them being scared of his abilities in the labyrinth, even Pan being unsettled by him, there's examples of that all across BotL, TLO, and the HOO saga, including Jason feeling that Nico is dangerous and getting defensive when they argue, Leo being creeped out, Frank finding his abilities unsettling even Hazel seems to be a bit scared of his abilities (even If she's insanely strong herself, it's more the nature of his powers) and then Reyna is terrified during the Bryce thing but at least she shows understanding. Nico was aware of how people viewed his power no matter how much they wanted to pretend they weren't unsettled by him, can you imagine what that must have felt like? If I was him and everyone looked at me like that for my abilities I wouldn't want to be near them either. Even Lester who is literally Apollo is a bit unsettled by Nico's powers in ToA...

I'm just saying, Nico doesn't even have to go Bryce mode for his powers to be considered scary and creepy.

[somewhereincairparavel]

I find it ironic that the fandom hates Jason for "having no personality" but Will solace was at his peak popularity in the fandom during the time BOO was out, that was before his personality was even properly established in TOA. Will's personality was 90% fanon before TOA was out, because the fandom cared enough to give him one even when Rick didn't establish it well up until later on.

But nobody cared enough to give Jason a fanon personality to make up for his canon absence, simply because they weren't interested and wrote him off the moment he was written as Percy's rival.

So if you put it that way, the majority of the fandom just hates Jason because he's Percy's equal. Which is why literally no one in the fandom wants jason to be loved or recognised, they just downplay him every chance they get, because he is seen as Percy's competitor and wants him to be bashed, so that Percy always has the spotlight, that's why the fandom always maintains the reputation of Jason's character as a "loser knockoff percy" and dont bother giving him a fanon one, Because they want jason's existence to be used as a punching bag to uplift Percy's achievements. That's what I take away from observing all the Jason slander lately.

The majority of the reasoning for his slander almost ALWAYS includes Percy in it, as far as I've seen.

There are many characters that many fandoms popularize and love even if they don't have proper personalities in canon or even when they are just characters in passing. And i don't see why jason is the only exception to that treatment

Saying that you hate Jason because you are salty that he's Percy's rival is basically like saying you hate him because he exists, which sounds ridiculous lol.

This is basically like a "if they wanted to, they would" type of situation, Jason is just unfortunate that he didn't get the fandom's love for anyone to give him any fun fanon personality at all

It's sad considering the possibility that Jason would've been so loved if he were just a mere side character, that way people wouldn't have hated him for "rivalling" Percy.

I guarantee you half the hate he got would've never existed in the first place if he were just some insignificant character in the series, because the fandom would've effortlessly shoehorned a personality of their own onto him and showered him with love instead of complaining about it.

Jason has LOTS of fanon potential, the fandom just don't want to utilise it :/

[jasontoddsno1simp]

Uh...

Where is all this Black Jason Todd discourse coming from?! Because, last time I checked, headcanoning Jason as Black is not exactly all that popular. Unless I'm missing a huge subset of his fandom; I've yet to come across the mob of He Did Nothing Wrong girlies who are deadass that Jason anti's swear run Butstan Twitter/Tumblr.

[bruciemilf]

slides into ur inbox as a tim-liker not to start a fight but to genuinely ask if i could gently change ur mind👀👀 bc tim's not that bad if you'd give him a chance (he is very cringe tho

It's not that I don't like him!! But sometimes it just gets exhausting to see "he suffered so much to keep the big bad bat alive" takes like Alfred wasn't right there

[shineyma]

the number of posts that go around the batfandom that can basically be boiled down to "people aren't writing about the character I want them to write about so I'm gonna shame them"

good lord

[thecruellestmonth]

Batman never argues for the sake of compassion or rehabilitation in UTRH. Batman was especially callous, punitive, and lacking compassion throughout that early 00s era. He was not championing compassion, rehabilitation, redemption, justice system reform, or (HA!) abolitionism in UTRH—he did not have faith in those things for *the kind of people* whom Red Hood murdered, and he did not have faith in those things for Jason himself.

Every single person that Jason hurt is someone that Batman would hurt. Every single person that Jason murdered is someone that Batman would've unhesitatingly thrown away to rot in prison (a prison system explicitly shown and stated to be outrageously inhumane even by the horrifying standards of the USA).

If the person was lucky, then prison would reform him sufficiently that he could be employed through Wayne Enterprises (Gotham City's biggest employer) once he got out after... however long he'd been sentenced. Non-violent felonies can earn years, decades of prison time. Or if he was unlucky he'd be killed by one of the regular prison-breaks staged by Batman's rogues (including Red Hood that one time when a Batman kept him in prison, but more consistently by other repeat rogues).

Red Hood's argument is ''blah blah my crime is not like the other crime‚ my new cycle of violence is totally better than the current 20-year-old cycle of violence.'' Batman's argument is not "we can't throw criminals away‚ they're people just like us :("‚ but instead more like ''ew Jason has succumbed to his inherent criminal nature‚ sucks how he needs to be thrown away with the rest of the susperstitious and cowardly lot.''

[mutteredmadness-ninjapanda16]

This takes place not too long after that post with Tucker and Riddler on the train.

(He got away from Red Robin and that teen -and Red Hood when did he get there?!- when the train has a minor derailment)

So yes, The Riddler is expecting it to be the bats and birds to be after his tail, he wasn’t expecting that teen to appear.

(Gotham sees The Riddler be interrupted in his speech to the bats and birds. Sees The Riddler freeze at the sight of a teen. Red beanie, battered bag, scuffed shoes, people think the teen’s an Ally kid, they don’t think outsider. At least not until neon green 1′s and 0′s start running across the feed.)

Short DPXDC Prompts #638

The Riddler thinks this might be his best puzzle yet. Clues are scattered through out the city and everything is put in place. He expected Batman to burst through the door, not a handful of civilians holding his riddles and armed to the teeth with green and white weapons.

[snakeredbirdbatkatana]

So I know how we have a lot of Jason and Dick or even Alfred drugging Tim in fics.

I have never liked that what so ever.

Like I don't think we as fandom really think about it.

I want you to imagine your brother or grandfather adjacent person handing you a drink that without thinking you take. You drink it and then nothing your are just out for over twelve hours.

You don't know what happened, you will never know what happened in that time frame all because you weren't sleeping the amount they wanted you to.

Also these are trained vigilante's who have more than likely witnessed rape cases with drugs who have had to help someone who was roofed home why in the fuck would you do that to one of yours.

Now another aspect why in the fuck would Jason Todd no drugs to children, and Dick Grayson who has had his bodily autonomy taken from him do this to their brother.

Alfred ok maybe he's done it to Bruce so many times he just doesn't think.

But look me in the fucking eyes and tell me they wouldn't lose their actual fucking shit if that was done to Damian or Tim.

They wouldn't be cool with it, they wouldn't laugh at it.

Imagine Jason and Dick chilling in the cave it's been a long patrol about to head to bed when they see Alfred come down and hand Tim coffee an energy drink pick your poison. They watch as Tim looks at Alfred before shoving it away.

"Master Tim it would be beneficial to your health if you drink your beverage."

"Sorry but I don't feel like being drugged tonight."

Dick wouldn't even blink before shattering the mug. Jason would be screaming at Alfred.

They would never trust that man again, the man who fed and taught them someone who had their backs.

Betrayed everything it doesn't matter the reason.

Or what if Tim drank it.

He starts slurring his words, starts to almost fall over calling for Jason or Dick.

"It was Drugged."

Falling unconscious into Jason's arms.

Jason who is screaming for help they don't know what it was they assume someone poisoned him not their sweet grandpa Alfred. The whole family rushing Dick practically crying only for Alfred to not blink tell them to get him bed as if it's normal.

In conclusion Dick Grayson and Jason Todd would not be the the spokesmen for drugging your baby brother and then carrying him to bed. They would not tamper with Tim or Damian's food. They would not ok with little brothers falling out of chairs or losing time not knowing what happened. All because they weren't following someone else's rules.

Well Tim hasn't slept in twenty four hours oh ok then let's drug him without his consent because I want him to go to bed.

That's some Arkham level bullshit.



[sunayyyy]

One trope that i find weird is that during batfam reconciliation fics, the batfam members use alfred as like the big red button to bring jason back, but i feel like that wouldn't actually work. at all.

Jason would HATE alfred after everything he did after he died. Canonically, it was alfred that made the "a good soldier" memorial case, bruce wanted it down but alfred insisted he keep it up, he was the one that gave tim the Robin suit THAT JASON DIED IN, and drove him to save batman and nightwing with NO training at all. He also helped keep up all the "jason was always doomed for a life of crime, and he was an angry child that got himself killed" narrative that was spun after DitF. Alfred pennyworth is batman's biggest enabler, and has stood by while bruce did all his bullshit, such as the whole UtRH arc, and RHatO #25, where he said that it was inevitable that jason would go back on the whole no killing agreement.

Alfred may care for all of Bruce's children, but his only grandchild is damian, as shown when he made him robin behind tim's back( the whole "dick made damian robin" thing is just to add to tim angst. Dick was infact against that whole shitshow). If it doesn't benefit bruce, his pseudo son/employer and landlord, he wouldn't give a fuck.

It's basically impossible to write a reconciliation fic at all without completely rewriting characters, especially jason and alfred. Jason believes that batman's mission is flawed and useless since he doesn't permanently stop crime, so he'd never fully give up killing, the whole reason there's a rift between him and bruce, and alfred isn't this doting grandfather that always sides with his grandchildren and bakes cookies and makes tea.

Also, one major thing the fandom forgets is that alfred is canonically a shitty father to julia, his bio daughter. He abandoned his own daughter for the waynes, he'd never prioritise bruce's children over him.

[somewhereincairparavel]

Gentle reminder that every time Jason Grace gave his offering to Jupiter, he prayed for his dad to help Nico. Just saying.

[jasontoddsno1simp]

Thank you.

I see a lot of posts saying Jason being told this (as well as the way Bruce grieved him) would change things, and I mean...

Sure, maybe it would, but it damn sure wouldn't be for the better.

Because, at the end of the day, his murderer is still alive and he still has no justice.

Nevermind the fact that he's treated by the narrative that wanting that, wanting someone to care enough to give it to him makes him a selfish and ugly person. But we don't got time for that;!

The thing surrounding Dick killing the Joker for Tim and Bruce reviving him is that if Jason ever learned about that, his two conclusions would be:

A) Tim is worth killing for, and he (Jason) isn't;

B) Dick's clean hands are worth more than Jason's mangled corpse and his memory and his legacy.

[littlefankingdom]

I saw another post criticizing Bruce for having children fighting at his side, and I must say: tell me you don't know shit about the batkids' stories without telling me. Bruce fucking tried to stop those kids from being vigilantes, but they keep doing it behind his back, so he decided the best thing to do was to give them the proper training, an armor and to have them stick at his side so he can watch over them. You know, like a parent telling their underage children that they can drink alcohol but only at home where they can watch over them.

Dick became Robin because he wanted revenge over his parents' murder. He would run out in the street of Gotham as a 8 years old, all alone, to go fight Zucco. Bruce helping him make Robin was the compromise to keep Dick safe, because the child would not listen. (And yes, it wasn't the case in the very first canon, but it was like the 40s. Do you know how many kids fought against the Nazis in Europe at that time???)

Barbara Gordon is not his daughter and he has no authority on her being a vigilante. He cannot even ground her.

Jason became Robin after helping Bruce take down Ma Gunn's school. It is implied by Bruce, while talking to Dick, that he offered Robin to Jason as a way to gain a child because he missed having Dick around. He didn't need a Robin, he just missed having a kid. Bruce used the Robin mantle with Jason like people use churu to appease stray kitten. AND JASON'S DEATH, let's talk about it. Jason ran away, which leads to him being killed, after eavesdropping on Bruce and Alfred talking about Jason's mental health. Jason is benched as Robin, but not because Bruce thinks he killed someone like fandom says, but because Bruce knows it is not helping or healthy for Jason. They are talking about getting him help for his traumas and how violence is not helping Jason. And, when he is older and has healed, they can try again if he wants to. That's why Jason or people saying that Jason died because he was a soldier, or blaming Bruce for Robin's existence is false. When Jason died, Bruce was against Jason being Robin for his own health! And Jason knows that, he heard the discussion, he wasn't bench like how so many of his siblings are, with little to no honest explanation. Jason died in the Robin's costume because of his own stubbornness, not because of Bruce. (And that's not blaming Jason for his death. He is not to blame, but neither is Bruce. It's just about the Robin's colors. Jason would not have been wearing them at the time if he listened to Bruce.)

Tim Drake imposed himself as Robin. Bruce was against it, Tim literally went "Don't care, didn't ask". And Tim was already following them around before. Bruce already have Jason blaming him for making Tim Robin when he had no control over that.

Stephanie Brown became a vigilante before Batman knew her. He has tried SO MANY TIMES to make her stop, and so many fans hate that he did it. Make a choice, is it bad that he didn’t stop her more or that he didn’t let her more be a vigilante? He even got his kids to try to make her stop. AND SHE IS "KILLED" TO TEACH HIM THAT MAKING KIDS VIGILANTES IS BAD WHEN HE IS NOT RESPONSIBLE OF HER BECOMING ONE AND TRIED TO STOP HER! No shit the man blames himself for things that are not his fault, everyone does it.

Cassandra Cain was 17 when she becomes Batgirl, so I don't know if she counts. But when Bruce tries to make her stop for her own health, with the support of Barbara and Alfred, Cass is devastated and doesn't obey him. She puts on her costume and fights him physically.

Damian Wayne was trained as an assassin. In every version of him being introduced to Bruce, Bruce is against making him Robin and Damian keeps sneaking out. Damian wants to prove himself to his father so bad and refused to be kept away from the fight. In the comics, it's Dick, DICK, that makes him Robin when Bruce is gone, because Bruce was against letting Damian out at night.

Conclusion: Bruce is a tired father of a bunch of kids that cannot understand they should stay home at night and not be vigilantes.

[ultimate-marysue]

I feel like a lot of the Batfam fandom misrepresents the sibling relationships not out of some inherent lack of reading comprehension, but just cause they're only children.

Listen, the sibling experience is so weird. Like, you'd die for each other, you ignore them most of the time, once you move out you barely speak with them (not even your favorite one) until you get together and spend three hours talking nonstop. You don't hate them, but they annoy you in ways most mortals can't even comprehend. The alliances and rivalries shift at random. You may be in good terms with two siblings that can't stand each other.

When you truly fight (I'm not talking arguing about something, I'm talking someone has done something that truly hurted the other) it's bad. You may still talk to each other and have fun together but it can fester and rot the relationship from the inside out. And even then, depending on what happened and their personality, they may still be there for each other.

If there's neurodivergency or disabilities involved it's a whole different shit show. You obviously want to help your little brother with chronic anxiety but jesus, you're trying to live your life too! You know they're autistic but come on can't we go out for dinner to a different place, just this once?? And don't get me started on disabilities, they may understand how your body works and still invalidate your pain on accident.

You cover for them in front of your parents and sometimes you rat them out for whatever reason. If you're angry with your father you will get in the middle of their fights, and if you're angry at your sibling you'll enjoy the show.

Siblinghood is really complicated from the outside, but from the inside it makes perfect sense. So yeah, I get why people that haven't experienced it have trouble reconciling Dick's love for his siblings and also his fierce independence from his family. Yeah, it's weird that Damian goes from hating Tim to joking around with him without fixing their issues but sometimes it is what it is. It makes sense for Jason to hang out with Dick's friends since they run similar circles and everyone thinking it's normal except for Dick. Cassandra doesn't speak to any of them for months but the second she's back from Hong Kong she's besties with Duke and Tim again.

It's only contradictory if you don't have siblings.

[ohnonotthehorrors]

You know, if any of the bats are going to kill the Joker: it should probably be Dick or Duke.

Like, I get it. 'Jason kills the Joker' sounds like the most obvious solution. But the thing is: Jason literally does not care about the Joker.

"But he's the man that killed him-" Sure. But that was a While ago. (At least if you ignore all the rebooting of the universe). Sure, Joker is a big symptom of what Jason sees as the problem. Which is: Crime needs to be controlled. Because more than anyone, he knows it won't be stopped. (It especially won't be stopped if no one is allowed to kill the bad guys).

But here's the thing. Jason's arc does not, and Should Not, revolve around Joker at all. Jason's story really never has been about revenge, and he should be Allowed to Move On from this one of the many people that hurt him. This isn't a: 'Oh Jason should learn to forgive and let go and not take revenge' this is a: 'the Joker is pathetic. Killing him just straight up doesn't do anything to Jason's arc or character.'

But Dick? Dick whose TRIED to kill the Joker? Dick who first donned the mask and tights to take revenge? Who wanted to make up for not being there for Jason? Yeah. This is the character that Would benefit from killing the Joker.

The first Robin has been around almost as long as the Joker has (both made in the same year) and it would be nothing more than divine justice for him to finally be the one to end him.

Well that's all well and good, you say. But what about Duke? What does he have to do with this?

You mean other than Duke being Awesome and he deserves to?

Duke's parents were hit by Joker gas. Pretty famously part of his character's back story. Duke has already killed a 'mirage' of Joker in the comics, which I think would be neat foreshadowing.

And think about it. The guy with light powers, the guy that works the day shift, by all means the Proof that Gotham really does care. Really does take things seriously. Why Shouldn't he get to kill off the personification of apathy?

Now the other point, and this is really just a personal vendetta, I would love Love the character that is Constantly ignored (at least by fandom) to kill off DCs 'specialist awful white man.'

The other person who should get to kill the Joker is Barbara Gordon (for self explanatory reasons) except I don't trust any writer to do it.

(She should get to beat that Thing into a white and red Pulp and shred his remains. No 'pull a trigger' no 'hire a swat team.' She gets to do it with her Bare Fists)

[batfamfixation]

Also, to everyone who argues the age gap is problematic: Canon doesn't have a coherent timeline. Tim has been 17 for like 30 years. I'm pretty sure Dick and Jason only have a two year age gap in modern comics, which makes zero sense, but that's why arguing against the pairing due to the age gap is nonsensical. While the people claiming moral superiority are giving Jason and Roy about an eight year gap, they need to understand that their choice of canon doesn't define what canon is, since canon is a fucking trainwreck with timelines. It's kind of giving gatekeeping vibes- trying to define what everyone else can consider canon. Just because your definition of what counts as canon makes it a problematic relationship (although still not actually illegal/grooming/predatory) to you doesn't mean it's actually an inherently inappropriate relationship.

In other words

"Roy wouldn't like Jason! They have completely opposing ideologies! It's out of character for Roy!"

Jason was a general menace that kidnapped Mia for one conversation in a pathetic attempt to convince her to abandon Ollie and partner with him instead. He kills criminals, but only criminals. His mindset as Red Hood is "I'm protecting civilians by killing criminals"

Jade is a mercenary, an assassin, someone who kills people for money regardless of whether or not they're a criminal and has no problem killing people without monetary incentive. Roy fell in love with her. The government told him to bring her in, since she's a mercenary, and he fell in love with her and didn't bring her in, indirectly allowing her to continue to kill people.

Out of character my ass.

[jasontoddspussy]

i kinda wanna write a short crack-ish time travel au where 12 year old jason swaps places with 22 year old jason bcs it'd be so fkn funny everyone would be so concerned. bcs like jaybin was not the angry kid fandom seems to think????? he was so sweet?? he listened, he was happy-go-lucky and wanted to help, found wonder in everything (robin gave him magic) and he was just so full of life and hope

so im just imagining:

titans: so hows it going with robin? you havent really talked about him or complained about his goody-two shoes sunshine-ness for a while. you good?

dick: well, uh. you see.

titans: also, who's the body-guard?

jason:

dick: so uh. this is.. future? robin..?

jason, 6'4 built like an idustrial fridge and a heavy aura of ''i can and will break your neck if you look at me the wrong way'' and voice gravelly from either the scar tissue or smoking or both: sup

titans:

titans: (just. stares. uncomprehending)

More under the cut V

just got like a funny picture in my head of like. a time travel AU where jason either swaps places with his younger self or somth idk but they're like sitting quietly eating breakfast and it's all fun and good but then a magical poof ensues and bam. adult jason is sitting there and jason is very confused bcs like yeah he was in fact sitting and about to eat but that had been at the nest with tim across him and maybe dick or damian snoring away on the couch in the next room.

meanwhile, dick and bruce and alf are all.. very confused bcs 1) baby jay just vanished. not only is the kid gone but in his place is a man who sorta looks like jay. (i headcanon jay as trans, this was before he came out.. tho i do have aus where he doesnt get to come out to anyone but tim, who makes a secret grave in his honor and doesn't out him.)

and bruce is like.

b: caroline...? is that you?

jay: (blinks) hm. congratulations, it's a boy. (jazzhands).

2. this man looks like he's seen the worst things humanity can offer, not to mention the very extensive scarring *covering every visible inch of his body* and the creepy either white eyes or green eyes.

and now he's sititng with just bruce and a very young looking dick and all of them just stare at each other and all jay can say is "fuckin' hell. seriously?" and groans bcs he did not want to deal with bruce. at all.

3. this man is not as surprised to be there as he should be.

jasons really not pleased with the situation but it is what it is and he's like just call constantine or zatanna or whatever. meanwhile everyone else is too busy staring at the fact jason, tiny jay, is taller than freakin' bruce and built like an industrial fridge (that isnt from lowes). none of them know how to feel about this

just like.

"you're.. awfully calm about this."

"eh, i've seen weirder." it is unsaid but jay is thinking of discowing.

n the three of them just has no idea how to treat this adult jason. this jason who seems.. familiar but so, so very different. obviously something must've happened bcs the guy looks like he's been in a freaking zombie apocalypse. and jays just like i cant wait to be home i hate this place, and makes the most unnerving comments here and there that just makes the others more confused. like.

"you can sleep in your old..? room. we will need to look for a change of clothes, though."

"ill use a guest room, i'm not setting a foot in that shrine."

"as you can see by this footage it's possible-"

"oh, that's not who killed him. look there, that's a falcone mark. this wasn't random but premediated."

"hm why are you even bothering with this case? listen - that's the sound of a skull being crushed, not the sound of an arm breaking, duh."

and they just get more confused and concerned

jason is a giant man made of muscle and rage and everyone is left reeling cause something happened to him, but he wont say what, and everyone keeps trying to guess and he doesnt clarify anything and obs no one is thinking "he died, got revived, turned into a zombie, pumped through HRT rage edition, becamea crime lord, was killed by his dad who chose to save his murderer, thrown into arkham by his older brother, broken out by his younger brother/boyfriend, made his own team of outlaws and put himself back together, only then starting to reconcile with some of the bats"

when they finally figure out how to get him back, someone, maybe baby timmers guesses "you were turned into a zombie" as a joke and jay finger guns him and says "yep" and then back jumps into the portal to get him back to his own time

meanwhile baby jason has the time of his life

not only is he apparently tall, *but* dick likes him?? he's apparently done a lot of good for crime alley??? he has a brother? boyfriend? both?? who looks up to him and is both very familiar yet he doesnt recognise him at all, and a younger brother who also looks up to him and is very protective and reminds him of like a small cat?????

dicks like we gotta get so many pictures of you!!! and jays like super confused but also like ok???

he can obviously tell that somethings up that theyre not telling him. but honestly the fact that it's like a decade into the future and he has so many people who loves him??? he decides its a problem for future him.

everyone is just very happy bruce is away on a mission in space.