#They're married because I say so | Explore Tumblr posts and blogs

bumblingbabooshka · 2 months ago

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Thinking about marriage/women's rights on Vulcan Some may think that T'Pring not being allowed to divorce Spock was because he was going through the pon farr but if she were allowed to divorce him at all she probably would have done that a long time ago, confirmed by T'Pol when she's speaking with Koss, who isn't suffering from the pon farr. She says that he can choose another mate (without invoking a fight it seems: note the difference between a 'mate' and a 'challenger') and after he makes it clear that nothing she says will change his mind about marrying her, she finally threatens to declare a kal-if-fee. It's clear that Vulcan women cannot divorce/refuse to marry a man they've been betrothed to under any circumstances if A) He himself doesn't consent to ending their marriage or B) She doesn't have someone else waiting in the wings to be given to in his stead. Though, if the challenger she selects fails to win the fight, she'll have to marry her betrothed anyway unless (again) he decides he doesn't want her after the challenge. That seems like an incredibly unfair system, heavily biased towards men. SNW is an alternate universe in many obvious respects but most egregiously in that T'Pring has a lot of non-canonical agency over her relationship with Spock. It's interesting to me that Vulcan society has women in many positions of power and treats women as equal to men from what I've seen despite these laws. We don't really see Vulcans exhibiting a misogynistic attitude towards women in general but in TOS (perhaps because of its general writing style but it's still interesting to note) both Sarek and Spock take on patriarchal attitudes specifically regarding wives. Amanda says that 'of course' Sarek commands her because "he is a Vulcan and I am his wife." It's worthwhile in my eyes to note that she specifies 'wife' instead of attributing this attitude to women as a whole. Again, with TOS' writing style it wouldn't be out of place for her to say "he is a man and I am a woman." Spock, while in a pon farr induced irritation, states that it's "undignified for a woman to play servant to a man that isn't hers" - again implying that there's something specific about being a Wife in Vulcan society which is different from being a woman in general and demands subservience to a husband. This could perhaps stem from the extreme sense of ownership that Vulcan law has permitted men to have over women. A woman legally cannot point blank refuse marriage. There is no option which guarantees she won't have to marry her betrothed other than death. When T'Pau speaks of T'Pring she refers to her as being 'property' and Stonn, before being interrupted, states he's made 'the ancient claim' - we don't know what this is because he gets cut off but it's obvious they're both using the language of Vulcan law. Men are permitted true freedom to choose. If a woman wants to choose someone else to be with there is no option available to her other than the kal-if-fee which might result in the death of the one she wants to be with. And, if her lover fails, her husband can still just decide he wants to marry her and she'll be forced to. T'Pring gives two scenarios: One where Spock 'frees' her and one where he doesn't - it's still ultimately his decision which is clear when he ends the conversation with "Stonn, she is yours." This again isn't just because of the pon farr as T'Pol also goes through this. Koss can choose another mate and when the option is talked about there's no implication that this would result in any sort of fight (both by the casualness of its mention and by the fact that there's no formal word for it unlike the kal-if-fee.) Also, the fact that Koss does eventually grant T'Pol a divorce and it's all fine means that T'Pol isn't lawfully required to have another man waiting if her HUSBAND doesn't want her. It's ONLY required if SHE doesn't want her husband. Tradition must take precedence over individual desire UNLESS!!! You're a man. Then it's fine. Like, your parents might not be happy but legally you're golden.

#as a note do NOT read the comments on any T'Pol marriage clips on youtube they're full of 'haha women amiright' jokes about #how she's leading Trip on and being a bitch for not choosing him etc - if you become interested in female characters you learn #quickly just how much people still hate women displaying any amount of complexity/doing anything that isn't just falling into a man's arms #even if that hatred doesn't take the form of outright vitriol (aka: 'I feel so sad for Trip bc T'Pol's marrying some other guy')#Trip: T'Pol listen this arranged marriage stuff is no good - you've gotta be free! You have to do what YOU want to do!#T'Pol: -legally seen as property of her husband in the eyes of the law- ...............#<- not dunking on Trip it's just funny how easy it makes it seem - but!! He doesn't know all the facts #as evidenced by him saying T'Pol might 'call off the wedding' to her mother - T'Pol can't legally call off shit #It's also interesting how gender isn't really mentioned in any of the clips I've seen - it's very clear to me that T'Pol has no options #specifically because she's a WOMAN within her culture but that's almost like a quiet undercurrent and not focused on as a main #point of dissatisfaction - which I imagine it 1000% would be for Vulcan women when men have infinitely more freedom #Vulcan Man: I don't wanna marry this lady #Vulcan Law: Ok #Vulcan Woman: I don't wanna marry this guy #Vulcan Law: Noted. So - if you and your lover are willing to risk his life there's a chance (if he wins) that you can get out of marrying #him BUT if your husband kills your lover and still wants to marry you you DOOO have to marry him sorry you just gotta #<- this also makes it incredibly dangerous to in any way warn your legal husband that a kal-if-fee might be incoming #the element of surprise is a HUGE advantage when it comes to winning a fight to the death (which your lover can train for)#Vulcans #T'Pol #T'Pring #star trek #I don't think this is bad necessarily (as a fictional worldbuilding thing) but I wish it were explored more #It's especially interesting because it's an aspect of logical Vulcan society - it's clearly not logical but it's also clearly rooted deeply #in tradition which may mean Vulcan long ago used to have a much more extreme gender bias towards the male population #it just implies a lot that Vulcan has these old laws which are unfair towards women yet they still follow BUT women are treated as equal #citizens OUTSIDE of marriage! Maybe there was a feminist movement before? Is there another brewing? Where are the Vulcan feminists!

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softquietsteadylove · 16 days ago

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I just reread My Kingdom for a Heart on AO3 (one of my faves of yours!) and I was wondering if you’d be willing to write a little continuation of that verse? Whatever inspires you! I’d just love to see the captain of the guard and royal advisor being not so sneakily flirty to each other while everyone is beggggging them to get a room

"You have been a wonderfully warm host, your Majesty," the visiting queen regent beamed at Sersi walking alongside her. She even turned over shoulder to look at the woman trailing just a few paces behind them. "And you, your Grace."

The royal advisor dipped her head to the visiting princess. "I am humbled, your Highness."

"Truly," the personable royal insisted, even stopping and stepping away from Sersi to invite her into the fold. "I have long admired the time you spent as queen regent over your own kingdom. I am visiting two queens of legend."

Thena offered a mild smile, while Sersi lowered her eyes shyly to the ground in modesty. Thena let the billowing sleeves of their dresses hide how she nudged her sister. "Her Majesty is too modest; she has done a fine job as Queen with the King at her side."

Sersi whipped her head up and put on a smile again; Thena was telling her not to lower her eyes from anyone. She was always catching her doing little things, like that. Little - unqueenly - things. "A-And we have admired the work you have done in your own kingdom, your Highness. We both know the demands regency brings."

"Ah," the princess offered with an equally modest smile, and perhaps a more honest slumping of her shoulders. "Indeed, it is rewarding, and demanding, in equal parts. I am beginning to consider the many offers of marriage simply to have someone to talk to about it."

The three women shared a laugh between them, understanding the desperation beneath such a jest. Thena picked up her skirts again, ready to fall behind the step of her Queen and their guest.

"Tell me...what of your Captain of the guard?"

Both Queen and princess turned as the royal advisor stumbled somewhat on the castle carpet. She kept her eyes directed at the ground (queen regent no longer, she could do that as a royal advisor).

Sersi accepted her sister's show of mortification, turning back to the princess. "The Captain? Uh, well..."

"Forgive me, your Majesty," the princess excused but did not throw the topic away with a wave of her hand. "I realise how poorly showing it is for me to ask such a thing."

Thena cleared her throat, coming to a stop as they did. She reminded herself of the distance she was supposed to keep. Remain over the Queen's shoulder at all times, never be more than three paces away to whisper something but do not hover so close as to listen to things not for her ears.

"But," the princess took on something of a grin. "Is he a wedded man? I confess I hope he is not."

Sersi's jaw hovered for just a moment before she remembered to clamp it shut. A queen did not flounder like a fish on a hook. She looked at her advisor, who was keeping her head down and out of it. The Queen drew her shoulders up and smiled. "To my knowledge, he is unwed."

The princess beamed. The royal advisor gripped her skirts tighter.

"But!" Sersi continued, even offering a gentle hand to the princess', outstretched in her excitement. "I do believe he is...promised to another."

"Promised?" the princess asked in clarification. "I did not realise commonfolk held such traditions."

"W-Well," Sersi tried to continue as if she were not writing her speech with the quill of her mind in the moment. "He is a man of high station, being the King's right hand. I am to believe he has...someone."

"Her Majesty is most shrewd," the princess dipped politely, acknowledging Sersi's lack of desire to whisper about her own king's-guard like housekeepers. However, that did not stop her.

Thena gulped as the princess gravitated back towards her. "Your Highness?"

"Her Majesty is shrewd," the princess dropped to a near whisper with her in conspiracy. "But it is the royal advisor's job to know everything within - and outside of - the court, is it not?"

She had her, there. Thena gripped her skirts so tightly the fabric may never lay flat again, she feared. "It is, your Highness."

"Do you know the Captain?"

The heat was beginning to get to her. Perhaps she could suggest to Sersi that they take their meal in the castle courtyard. "I do, your Highness."

"And?" the princess asked eagerly, but in such an inviting way. In another life, perhaps they would have been friends, trading secrets and laughing. But now, all Thena felt was panic. "Do you know if he is a married man or if I might-"

"He is committed."

The Queen also looked at her with highly piqued interest.

The princess let her disappointment show. "Committed?"

"Committed," Thena repeated, clearing her throat and ignoring her sister's gaze upon her like a hawk's on a fieldmouse. "I know of questions of this nature from others and the answer appears to be that he is...committed--to another."

"I see," the princess offered in a more dull tone. "I suppose that is to be expected. He is quite a handsome specimen."

Sersi's eyebrows raised as her royal advisor's pale skin took on slightly more colour.

Thena repeated the words that kept her anchored to her position. "Yes, your Highness."

Their visitor did not catch the peculiar behaviour of the stoic woman, though. She was having a delightful time speaking with her new allies--and friends. "Working with him is an enviable task."

The royal advisor resumed looking at the ground, unable to lift her skirts and dash off in escape, tethered to her few paces following them. "Yes, your Highness."

"Oh, your Grace, please," she smiled, even bending herself to meet the royal advisor's eye. "I am not asking as a regent, I am asking as a woman. A woman who is rather tired of bearing the weight of a kingdom alone, as it were."

Sersi closed the distance again, both connecting with the amiable princess, as well as covering her sister's exposed weakness. "We quite know what that is like, your Highness."

Thena did manage a shaky smile at that. She was glad her sister could have an ally, much more a friend. Someone with whom she need not stifle herself so constantly. She did her best to take in a breath. The question had truly taken her off guard.

"Do you know to whom he is," the princess slid her eyes between her new confidantes, "committed?"

Thena's jaw bobbed; she was floundering.

"Not that it is my place to ask," the princess amended quickly.

"Not at all," Sersi laughed off easily, still actively smoothing over Thena's ruffled exterior. "I could not say, I'm afraid. But I believe it is someone within the castle."

"A working marriage," the princess surmised with a smile. "Like something of a romance, isn't it?"

The Queen grinned, "I quite think so, your Highness."

Thena nearly gasped in relief when they turned the corner and she curtsied, "the throne room, your Majesty--your Highness."

The doors were opened for them, and Thena was finally able to slip around the two royals and slink her way up to her position over the right shoulder of the Queen's throne. She welcomed the flow of air, even if she was still feeling overheated.

"You okay?"

This was not helping. She tried not to seem that she was biting into her bottom lip as she met the eyes of the Captain in his position opposite hers. The thrones were wide, and he seemed oceans away at times, looming over the left of Ikaris' shoulder.

"What did you talk about?" he whispered as the Queen and princess took their time returning to the throne upon their raised floor.

"Nothing." It was less of an answer and more of a squeak. Thena looked to the side of the room, avoiding the Captain's discerning eye. He always knew when something was under her skin, an unfortunate remainder from when she had been the subject of his guarding.

Sersi finally broke away from her girlish whispering and giggling to look at the two unoccupied thrones. "Ikaris?"

Gilgamesh squared his shoulders. "His Majesty sends his apologies; the meeting with the generals is extending. It seems without his most trusted war advisor, he is...struggling to see eye to eye with them."

His eyes slid over to her. Thena used the back of the throne to disguise her waving her hand at him. She was the royal advisor, not the war advisor (not officially, at least). He enjoyed flattering her.

"Such capable advisors you have, your Majesty," the princess noted with a smile, although her eyes were rather locked onto the Captain.

"Quite, your Highness," he bowed slightly, wearing a smile of his own. Again, his eyes straight to his right. "A better, more wise advisor, there is not."

The royal advisor huffed faintly, feigning some annoyance with the heavy, heavy praise. The rest of the court seemed quite used to the exchange taking place. "Captain, you have polished your words so much I will fear for your armour's condition."

"Forgive me, your Grace," he answered formally, but his tone was more like a schoolboy teasing the object of his affection. "I speak only the truth. I fear for my station, the King and Queen are so well cared for with your guidance."

The princess' brows rose as the royal advisor offered a modest blush--and reticence. Her head swivelled between the two of them.

"You know very well we could not do without you, Captain."

It was quiet, but the room absorbed the words as if they had been screamed. Eyes rose and then dashed away politely from the confession, just as truthful, just as open, but much more scintillating.

The princess' mouth opened as she nodded, entirely for her own understanding. She looked at the Queen. "I see."

Sersi, no one's fool, also nodded with a kind expression. "Indeed."

"I must apologise," the princess lamented.

"Unnecessary, I assure you," Sersi offered, in a most queenly way, she was proud to say. She looked at her sister and advisor, who offered her approval of the statement.

"Thank you, your Majesty," the princess allowed, although she looked up at the royal advisor as well. "But my apology was directed elsewhere."

Gilgamesh looked at the ladies, not quite with all the pieces he needed. He looked at Thena again, who was still looking away from him, not that the royal advisor was without her shyness from time to time.

"Not at all, your Highness," Thena managed to mumble out with everyone's eyes on her. Her wringing hands were at least somewhat disguised behind the throne. "You were not to know."

"Well, seeing as your husband is still indisposed," the princess smiled again, ready to lift spirits with her mirthful nature. "I should like to continue talking with my new friends. Captain, if you would be so kind to escort us to your lovely castle gardens. Perhaps we might even like to take a meal, there."

"Of course, your Highness," the Captain dipped at the waist obediently. He couldn't even make it to his full height again before he was looking at the royal advisor once more. "Your Grace."

She gave him a withering look; she was going to tell him he couldn't speak with her so liberally in royal company later. But her hand slipped into his all the same as they descended the stairs keeping the throne separate from the rest of the room. The two found their place a mere few steps behind the royalty present. "As you wish, your Majesty--your Highness."

The princess grinned at them both before pulling Sersi in by the hands again. "You are a lucky woman, your Majesty. Dependable staff, a fine husband."

"Indeed," Sersi offered, catching the mischievous sparkle in the princess' eye. They would get along well.

"And a positively tantalizing working romance story, unfolding before your very eyes!"

#Thenamesh AU #thank you so much that's so sweet!!!!#I really did love My Kingdom for a Heart #it makes me so happy you did too!#Gilgamesh is here like I don't really know what's going on #but he can finally hold Thena's hand again so great #the princess is like whoops listen that's my bad #Thena is the flawless royal advisor #unflappable and always knowing what to say #unless they're talking about her potential upcoming marriage #then she's beside herself doesn't know what to do doesn't know what to say #Sersi is like well serves you right #Thena: pardon me?!!?!#Sersi: if you would just marry him and give me some nieces and nephews to spoil rotten this wouldn't be happening this is karma #Thena keeps putting it off because the Captain of the guard and royal advisor have very busy jobs #they can't be taken away from the crown #they can't have an extravagant wedding or a honeymoon and leave the kingdom unadvised #unprotected?!!?!#really she's nervous and scared and has no idea how to navigate love #poor dear #but with the princess here maybe we're a little closer to that wedding #also sweet innocent Gil has no idea what's going on #Thena later asks him VERY subtly if he caught wind of the princess fancying him #Gilgamesh is flabbergasted he barely spoke to the woman #Thena is pleased by the answer but she just tells him never mind #and you're right everyone is totally used to them flirting #it is no secret the Captain is a S I M P for the royal advisor #everyone just accepts it #and Thena flirts back sometimes #she just doesn't realise it's flirting

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