#Then The Sorrow of Werlyt happens and its like

[artisanscribbles]

#ffxiv#hades being horrified and disbelieving of everything we tell him emet-selch will do isn't redemption#it's a tragedy#here is a decent man who does not wish to believe that anyone would stoop so low#except you know that he will and he will not regret a moment of it even in death#even in death he believes himself justified#because he loved his world#he isn't redeemed - he isn't really even forgiven#and he doesn't want to be#emet-selch doesn't need to be redeemed after all - he's doing what he believes must be right

Don;t hide this in the Tags

"emet-selch had a point" girl the ancients' clothes are called sophist's robes...

[aethernoise]

2. bark

This prompt reminded me to return to a very old WIP idea that I will likely never finish. It may simply be the fic equivalent of writing an angry letter and never sending it - self-care, if anything, in face of grave injustices.

Set in 5.2, inspired by the opening quests of the Sorrows of Werlyt. CW for mild violence.

•

She wanted to spit in his face, but her mouth was dry from anger.

"I don't give a shit about your regrets," she hissed, "They mean nothing to me. They mean nothing to the millions of innocent lives you've taken and the millions more you have ruined forever."

Gaius' face remained stony in the dim light.

"You needn’t list my sins, I know them all full well," he said. "I would never attempt to request your forgiveness, only cooperation--”

"Here is my cooperation, Baelsar," she cut him off. "You are alive at this moment because I will it.”

The corner of his mouth twisted ruefully.

“You would kill an unarmed man in cold blood? It seems we are both a far cry from our former selves.”

“Shut up.” 

"Do it, then, if you must. Say the words, Defender of Eorzea. Prove you're not all bark and no bite. Even if you paint the Royal Palace red with my blood, it will do nothing to stop what is coming."

There was a loud crack and a flash. Gaius grunted and slumped onto the floor. The aether was so loud in Alyx’s ears, she didn’t hear Raubahn’s voice booming down the hall.

“Alyx!”

There was a small singe on the front of Gaius’ coat, leaking a faint smell of burned leather. She remained transfixed on the mark while his chest slowly rose and fell.

“Alyx! Seven hells, what have you done?”

“He’s fine,” she said flatly.

“I cannot say he didn’t have it coming,” Raubahn said with the hint of a chuckle, and Alyx almost gave herself neck strain with the speed she turned to look up at him.

“Nothing compared to what he deserves. He doesn’t even deserve to be here, walking free in our home--” Her fingers clenched, shoulders squared against trembling with anger. “Raubahn, how could you?”

“Do you think I want him here?” His voice was hushed, his enormous shadow tense, black eyes flashing with ferocity. “Do you truly think I welcomed him as a friend with open arms?!”

Alyx had the dim awareness that anyone sane would be completely terrified to be rounded upon by General Aldynn in such a manner, but another awareness reminded her that she could knock him on his arse too if she had to.  

“How am I supposed to know? You certainly looked chummy enough,” she spat, “Standing there next to him like a gods damned diplomat, like he wasn’t the one responsible fo--”

His giant, calloused hand seized her arm. The hold was not ungentle, but the sheer weight of him rooted her to the spot. 

“And what would you have me do?” His voice had lowered to a rumbling growl like an earthquake. “Execute him on sight? Drag him through the streets? He came to us in peace, and with information vital to our survival--”

“And you trusted him!” 

“We have no reason not to.”

“My gods, do you even hear yourself?!”

“We have no choice. I have no choice.” Alyx opened her mouth to disagree, but he continued: “I will not put our borders at further risk out of pride. I cannot afford to refuse help, even from the most hated of sources. If Ala Mhigo is to survive--if Eorzea is to survive--it cannot depend only on you forever, Alyx.”

Her heart hammered in her ears, but she had no rebuttal. The General went on:

"Someday, Rhalgr forbid, you might not be here. What if something were to happen to you? What would become of us? I know full well what you're capable of, but I know you cannot be everywhere at once."

A soft groan from below - Gaius was waking up. As soon as Raubahn's grip slackened enough, Alyx pulled her arm free. 

"Fine. Do what you will." Her voice was low, robbed of much of its former power. "But please, do not ask me to work with him."

Alyx didn't wait for confirmation. Instead she turned to leave before she could regret anything more.

[maleficentabsinthe]

Sorrow of Werlyt (Shb spoilers)

Just finished the sorrow of werlyt trials for ffxiv. and oh man. the feels. I am losing it. Like it’s so sad. and you can see how Gaius’ ideology led to his kids being fucked up in this way. and it’s like, you feel sympathy for him, it’s so tragic. like all of them died in a tragic way. the empire is in the midst of a civil war (I think? Gaius is dead and Zenos is MIA? could be very wrong tho, I’m not too far in post patch content) its possible if they took a chill pill and killed the guy in charge this whole things didn’t need to happen this way. especially the one where the kid became Gaius? like oh man. that’s so fucked up. cause also it’s just an especially messed up way to go. like merging with the machines. oh dear.

Anyway, thought it was really good, just had an emotional reaction I wanted to get out.

[autumnslance]

hello i know this is like. super late but i saw some of your posts on werlyt and i wanted to add that im pretty sure livia's attraction to gaius overall is mostly an ENG thing. the scene where gaius tells her to meet in his office later is, actually, standard procedure in japan for bosses when they need to scold employees in private. ive actually seen several japanese players express confusion over non japanese players viewing that in a romantic context. and its obvs not the first time that (1)

(2) the english team has fucked up, as we have seen with nael van darnus always being intended to be female in 1.0 but the english translation team didnt realize that. so while i do think its a shitty attempt at retconning, i do think that the scene everyone cites as "evidence" of gaius and livia having an affair is moreso something that was lost in cultural translation, as he doesnt ever express anything otherwise. the eng team seems to. make many things romantic for no reason

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Combining both asks. My Sorrow of Werlyt tag; some faint praise and plenty of salt, fair warning. My Livia sas Junius tag as well as I've talked about this before.

I dunno even know that the EN team specifically is "making" things romantic for no reason--in fact, there are criticisms of some character translations that seem to try and ensure there isn't romantic misconception from some characters--as it is players reading so many things with shipper goggles on, and this is a case of poor context.

Though it does sound like a weird request; for me, as a former soldier, once the other officers had left, the criticism or instruction would happen then and there, not in an hour (unless Gaius needed the time for something else), and if needing guaranteed privacy from other soldiers, I would have said "office" not "quarters" as the connotations there are very different in English (and officers/high rank NCOs that I knew had an office separate from their personal quarters while on base). But there are a lot of folks playing EN, perhaps some of them more familiar with the tropes, or simply non-ship focused, that didn't read romance into it at all ever.

Overall, everything Livia says in EN lean toward an obsession with her foster father, though his reactions to her are far more reserved and offhand--to the point of forgetting about her entirely even, his interactions with Cid (and later the Auri quintet) as much more important. He reacts more to Rhitahytn's death than hers, which strikes me as odd. Even something simple would do.

Nero makes a comment after Titan about Livia being "in love" though how much it's supposed to be a joke or what also seems lost in text and translation.

In general I think ARR needed a few more editing passes they had no time and budget for, given they rebuilt an entire game in the span usually reserved for an expansion. They did OK overall, though some weird choices then have haunted the story and characters since.

Also the EN localization team has changed over the years, so the teams have been picking up and recontextualizing the pieces over the years. Koji's been over on FFXVI, so Kathryn Cwynar has been EN local lead since Shadowbringers, as revealed in a 6.1 live letter (she's the bespectacled lady doing translations during FanFest 2021 and those PLLs when Miss Aimi cannot). The EN and JP are mostly written together, but there's still a lot of back and forth, too, as well as interaction, cultural checks, and consistency with the other languages they have to manage. Kate's twitter has an interview pinned with the Local Leads for each language, and the coordinator, from in March 2021.

I also have a post on the Eula/Nael mess, and in that case it's one of those things the devs claim they decided to retcon-but-we-don't-like-to-call-them-retcons, perhaps rather than admit to an error or place blame for mistranslation of a major figure. Which is another aspect of cleaning up some of those missteps that linger, and we're honestly not going to know that answer for sure.

EDIT ADDENDUM: DT has a good point in the Replies too (that I usually mention, at least did in another post); everything we ever see in ARR about the “relationship” is entirely Livia’s statements and POV, across all languages/translations. So if people are reading into it, it’s because they’ve been primed to based on Livia’s comments and Nero’s snarking. Not anything Gaius himself ever said or did, and the “My quarters, one hour” line ends up a victim of translation as players take Livia of all people at face value, not considering her POV is very, very skewed.

Though it is common enough for players to take everyone at face value, heroes and villains alike, without considering their personal perspectives, misinformation, misunderstandings, outright lying, and other agendas, before we even get to how each player interprets those lines they’re taking as absolute truth.

[autumnslance]

And the worst part is half the time, Gaius is the only one who remembers how bad he was and has things to make up for, but how he learns those lessons is a mystery; the kids lionize him, and the ally NPCs who've been spitting nails when his name comes up for years kinda just handwave it all away, until M'naago late enough in the arc that one wonders if the devs didn't hear the criticisms of Cid's sudden change of heart.

The WoL's not even present for any story elements except the actual battles and a handy Echo now and then. Everything else happens off-camera or in "Meanwhile" cutscenes. WoL never even meets or sees Valens. Part of the problem of the storyline is the wrong characters are focused on, as well as WoL being nearly unnecessary to the plot at all.

Worse, they had unapologetic antagonist Emet-Selch all through the 5.0 MSQ. The Ascians did wretched things, yet still could be sympathetic and understandable even as they had to be stopped. So we know (some of) the writers can manage it!

I've said many times; Sorrow of Werlyt has the bones of a good story. It's easy to see what they wanted to do with the characters and story arc. But Gaius and the orphans are mishandled and Valens is not a well-written or presented character. It's a pastiche of too many mecha anime tropes instead of focusing on telling a single good story with mecha elements. And it's a shame, as with the loss of a Garlemald expac (I get the feeling it never got past vague ideas and there wasn't enough material that wouldn't just be a rehash of StB from the other direction, so became a part of EW instead), the reasons for Gaius's return and the initial cool Shadowhunter concept fell by the wayside and now he's stuck in mediocre at best, actively offensive at its worst, side content that did not do any of the characters and concepts involved any kind of justice.

I loved hating Gaius as a villain. I was ambivalent on his return in StB, but I started to like the idea in ShB with his buddy adventures with Estinien & crew. I've said before too that Gaius reminds me of some classic SciFi/Fantasy protags, especially by the likes of Roger Zelazny. He could have had such a good redemption arc to justify the return and revision of a popular antagonist, and it was fumbled so hard.

So much of ShB's patch content was screwed thanks to the pandemic, but I have the feeling the pandemic isn't entirely responsible for this particular mess.

every time i get prae in the roulette i put off starting gaius' questline for another month (i will never start it)