#The only villain who mentions it is AfO

[problemswithbooks]

On Hawks, I think his wasted potential is in his use as the Endeavor supporter. He should have been allowed to have been more hurt by the reveal. When your idol turns out to have a lot in common with your abuser(s) that should be upsetting. Ya know. He was kinda blocked from being more complicated for the ease of Endeavor's redemption arc. In that sense he was robbed. As were other characters but him especially.

Oh, I think Hawks and Alicent have wasted potential, but I was more frustrated with people saying "x character has such wasted potential because they weren't written the exact way I personally wanted".

Many of the complaints I see about Hawks being wasted as a character come from people who wanted him to turn villain or be portrayed as a corrupt Hero. They aren't arguing about what could have made him a better character in the direction Hori decided to take him in.

As for being stuck as Enji's cheerleader, I do think it needed more set up to work better, but I understand why Hori went the direction he did with it. It's not just that it eases Enji's redemption arc, it also cuts down the amount of time he needs to spend on the manga, keeps the the Todoroki sub-plot more centered on the family, while also helping not rehash the same arguments/growth other characters have already done in this side plot.

Also, Hori has a tendency to tell, not show due to his rush to get this story finished. He wants to reiterate for the audience that Enji is trying and is helping during the AfO fight. Having Hawks be the one to think about how Enji is changing, or tell AfO about how Enji's attack was successful despite his regeneration, is an easy way to make sure readers understand Enji's arc. It's clunky, but I will admit that what Hawks says about Enji is far more backed up by what we're shown then what some of the villains have said.

I think it would have been nice to get more interactions between Enji and Hawks post first war. Having one scene at least where Hawks talks to Enji alone, wanting even more conformation on his change, or asking what made him change at all would have actually gone a long way. Heck, having Hawks reply to Enji steadfast desire to be better by saying "maybe I gave up on my parents to soon", only for Enji to tell him he had/has no obligation to forgive or help his parents would be even better.

It would make Hawks' support of Enji feel more earned. Then he's not just supporting the Hero Endeavor, but Enji as the better person he's trying to be. It'd also be really nice to have Enji help Hawks for once, even if it was just with some words. There relationship has been more one sided since the end of the first war arc, and I think that makes Hawks talking Enji up, feel even worse.

Enji showed genuine care for Hawks and worried about him at least twice during the fighting. Given it was his son who burned Hawks to the point his wings were permanently damaged it makes sense he'd feel guilty. A nice call back to that hospital scene after the Highend fight would have been brilliant. Enji doesn't hold a grudge against Hawks for putting him in danger back then (because now he'd know about the spy thing) and Hawks wouldn't blame Enji for Touya burning him. Also maybe just throw in Enji hyping Hawks in some way during the AfO fight.

I don't think Hori had to have a huge, long drawn out thing with Hawks being super upset with Enji. He just had to have some sort of scene between them that showed that Hawks was hurt by the reveal, but have Enji win back his trust in someway. Then just continue that so Enji shows just as much faith in Hawks during the AfO fight. It doesn't feel like a one sided relationship that Enji didn't even have to repair that way.

And this sort of fix still keeps Hawks in the story the way Hori wants. He's can still hype Enji so the audience is reminded about his arc/ contributing to the AfO fight, but it's just better set up and organic. It's not changing Hawks entire role in the story.

[villainsandvictimsalliance]

Horikoshi giving hero tropes to the villains is probably my favorite part of bnha.

He presented us with a nervous wreck of a boy at the beginning of the manga. Look, he seemed to say, isn't he creepy? isn't he evil? He met Tomura in his most lanky form. Malnourished, neglected, real dead hands all over his body and blunt nails digging mercilessly in his skin.

Sure, the story paints him as a real villain. He is there to kill kids, after all. He wants to kill the light of the hero society, to spread violence and hatred all around. He's also very very suspicious. You get that feeling that there's more to the story. It's in the way he acts, his desperation. He looks sick. What is he making him so? What is his story?

Tomura is a loser. A failure since the beginning, if you follow the narrative. Characters like Stain, Overhaul and Redestro point it out: Tomura isn't the best strategist per se, they can't understand his reasons to do what he does, there's something wrong with him in villain terms.

That's when the brain starts to pick up the signals and plants the doubt. Many people don't notice it, but something in the story gives away that he is a very special type of villain.

We see him alone in his dark messy room, staring at a screen. We see him drinking alone in a bar as he sits on his misery. Over and over, we see that evil boy and his burdened stance. Only Kurogiri is there. His master only talks to him through some radio. He doesn't mention anyone else. No one else seems to live in that bar but Kurogiri and him.

Back then, when Tomura was all about AFO and All Might and no one else, he felt hollow. Rotten.

We first saw him approach someone for help and some company after the first LOV members were introduced. We meet Toga and Dabi, then Tomura goes to find Deku. Is he still creepy? Yes. Is he still evil? Also. We have Giran talking about Tomura with the fondness you reserve for a spoiled child. The way Kurogiri and Giran talk about it, it's more like Tomura needs to make some friends. He's not used to it, so he's being rude to them.

He's a chosen one reluctant to make friends, since he's used to doing things on his own— or at least with people he didn't care about. Next time we see him, his telling Kurogiri that he doesn't want them to die, he wouldn't sacrifice them for a goal and he actually wants them to succeed. He talks like a leader, he considers them important.

When they show us the LOV around Tomura as he talks to a kidnapped Bakugo, there's something in there already. How they worry when Bakugo hits Tomura and knocks the hand out of his face. They humanize Tomura, which is a lot to say when AFO did everything he could to dehumanize him. They make Tomura be more mature, more responsible and more capable. While AFO paints Tomura as a foolish child that cannot get things right until he's guided there, the LOV trusts Tomura to take care of himself and guide them.

That's when the hero tropes with villains started.

A quick list from the top of my head:

Twice overcame his trauma mid-battle in order to save Toga and then the LOV.

Tomura was tempted by Overhaul to betray the LOV in exchange for power. He pretended to agree, only to backstab Overhaul because Tomura would never forgive those who hurt his friends and would never betray the LOV.

Magne went to attack Overhaul for offending her and her friends, defending their ideals and their right to exist 'til death.

Mr. Compress took the leading role in many dangerous situations to assure that the LOV would get their win, but also to assure they'd make it out alive.

Tomura would forgive people not on his behalf, but for the benefit of the LOV.

Giran refused to sell any info about the LOV and laughed in his captors face because he was not so important to them. Turns out he was bluffing about it being all business, since we know from Twice's flashback that he did it also for the fondness he felt towards the LOV and the LOV went there to rescue him.

The LOV rushing through a battlefield the size of a city while desperately trying to find a way to save Tomura.

Twice and Mr. Compress refusing to leave Tomura fighting Gigantomachia alone and taking the burden of his training with him.

Dabi doing all he could to save Twice and snapping when he realized Twice was dead.

Mr. Compress worried about Toga and her solo mission.

Spinner telling Toga that she needs to come back safe and sound to them.

Tomura refusing to die or give up while the LOV still needs him (to be a hero).

Twice already dead and still moving because he needed to save Toga.

The entire LOV refusing to even consider defeat because they blindly believe that there is no way Tomura can lose.

And there's so much more...

The LOV made Tomura act heroic. They gave him a reason to want to save and protect, instead of just wanting to destroy.

The power of friendship but for evil.

Isn't it the best thing ever?

[haine-kleine]

anyway. the ending was like That because it was Izuku's hero academia. it was his story told from his point of view and it concluded all the plot points he was concerned with, like his relationship with Bakugou, Allmight, the public's opinion on the heroes, what the new generation of heroes is going to be like, how Shouto is perceived by the public, Izuku's general relationship with his former classmates and Aizawa.

he never really cared about Shigaraki outside of their brief confrontation. he didn't really know Shigaraki as a person, and nor was he interested in getting to know him, even when he got the chance to peek into his past, Nana and Allmight had more reason to be interested in who Shigaraki the person was. to Izuku, Shigaraki started as a terrifying villain and ended as a crying boy he was unable to save. this is why, as he joins the rest of his classmates and becomes a pro hero, he imagines the ghost of Shigaraki looking over him, haunting him, reminding him of his failure but also inspiring him to try harder and 'keep reaching out'.

The villains were the ones concerned with their stories. Spinner wrote that book by himself, as Izuku's notes are being written at the point the book has already been published. Izuku never mentions any contents of that book nor Spinner or Mister Compress. Because they do not belong in his story, not really.

They belong with each other, in the League of Villains, as they have proven time and time again how important they are to each other and how far they are willing to go to protect their own. Shigaraki's thoughts before Izuku had killed him were all about the League. Kurogiri's last act was trying to save Shigaraki from AFO and the heroes. What kept Spinner's spirit from crumbling after losing everyone he had cared about was his burning desire to tell their story to others, to let their stories be heard. Touya finds no solace despite getting everything he had ever wanted from his family and being reunited with them - because his place was in the League of villains, the place where he was accepted just as he was, unconditionally.

the conflict of heroes versus the villains led to nothing but devastation and destruction for the villains. even those who were heard out and validated by the other party ended up becoming victims, or martyrs.

after that experience, after having a whole crowd of pro heroes, the people who made it their lives career to save others witness his destruction by the man who stole his body from him and by the boy who swore to save him, why would Shigaraki be interested in keeping in contact with these people, had he survived? why would Kurogiri go out of his way to let Shirakumo's friends know he had survived their students attempt to take his life and the life of the boy he wanted to save, all because they couldn't accept his affection for that boy outweighing their long gone friendship? why would Toga, when the reporters and the heroes saw her body after starting to transfuse all of her blood to Ochako and not even bothered to pick it up, to save her life or even to bury her?

here is how it went: Kurogiri did end up successfully saving Shigaraki, the fact going unnoticed by the heroes because both of their bodies were crumbling. he had also taken Toga, which is why her body wasn't picked up together with Ochako (and why Ochako doesn't have any memories of Toga's dead body, only of her final words to her). and then Kurogiri teleported them far away, where they healed and started planning how to get the remaining three LOV members back, while they are still alive.

they broke Spinner and Compress out of the prisons. In memory of Twice, Hawks had covered it up, as long as they don't resurface as villains.

Shigaraki and Toga had considered letting Touya stay together with his family, up until the news of Endeavor's disgraced villain son being on his deathbed got out. On the very next day, Shigaraki broke the tank Touya was residing in to pieces. Enji and his sidekicks had covered his eldest going missing by holding a funeral ceremony for him (the second one, this time knowing full well it's a fake funeral). Shouto was enraged with his father's decision and Enji used Shouto's just starting pro hero career as an excuse, don't you want to have a clean start, without the weight of mine and Touya's crimes weighting you down? It's not like Shouto has a choice in the matter, just as when he was a kid. The family wonders about the missing one's fate. Sometimes, Shouto gets messages from unknown numbers. He doesn't share them with anyone, except for Natsuo, who is still devastated about not using his one last chance to reconcile with the brother he had been so sorely missing for 8 years.

The ghosts of Toga, Shigaraki and Dabi live on, haunting the heroes who failed to save them. Himiko, Tenko and Touya also live on. They are very different from these ghosts.

[commander-revan]

I've been thinking a lot lately about how Dabi feels post dance and the Paranormal Liberation War in regards to losing Twice and Compress all in the same day.

Obviously he's ecstatic that he finally got to reveal himself, got to see his father face the consequences of his neglect, and tell the whole world about what a piece of shit the Number One hero is to his own family.

But after those scenes, despite all the recent promotional art of him smiling, he doesn't actually seem happy. In some cases it even seems like he's doing worse mentally.

We missed out on a lot in not getting to see how the remaining League members feel immediately after that battle. We don't even get to see Shigaraki acknowledge losing Twice and Compress, if he even knows what happened to them with AFO trying to take him over.

All we really get are these panels when AFO is breaking other villains out of prisons around Japan. And he and Spinner just look so exhausted.

Dabi is clearly upset about losing Twice given his confrontation with Hawks, but after that we don't see him talk about it at all. We do see him with this look when Compress brings up that he believes Twice died, but Dabi doesn't even mention that he was there with him in his final moments.

He just immediately switches gears and decides to focus all of his energy into hunting down Endeavor, kickstarting his plans for revenge much earlier than he expected.

The only other time we see him mention Twice is this moment with Toga (this scene is also the only time we see him smile post reveal and before the war).

We get even less when it comes to Mr. Compress, even though Dabi seemed the closest to him out of everyone in the League. Nothing gets said at all about him. Compress helps Dabi escape and tucks him away with Spinner before he sacrifices himself for them. But I don't think Dabi knew what Compress was really doing, that he wouldn't be coming back with them.

I also don't think the world had the reaction Dabi was hoping for after releasing his reveal video. Sure some people lost faith, and there was a press conference, but ultimately Endeavor didn't face any consequences. It confirmed what Dabi already knew, that nobody cares and heroes will continue to get away with anything in this society.

After this, in the few scenes he's in before the war, he just has blank stares.

Or he's annoyed that AFO isn't letting him go after Endeavor immediately.

He doesn't care about taking down the world, or AFO's plans, he's just impatient to kill his father and ultimately himself. Like Shoto said, he's been ready to die from the start. And I think losing the people he was closest to in the League only exacerbated his fatalistic mindset.

With Twice dead, Compress in prison, Shigaraki being possessed, and with what happened to Spinner, it's really just him and Toga left. He doesn't have a reason to really stick around for anyone anymore.

Which just makes me wonder if he blames himself. He's the one who brought Hawks in after all. If it wasn't for that, Twice and Compress might still be around, they might still have their base, their army. They lost everything, and he's partially to blame.

He's been deemed a failure since he was a child, by Endeavor, by AFO after his three-year coma. And then he failed in protecting the League, in judging how much of a threat Hawks actually was. He only brought Hawks in once they had formed the PLF. He thought with numbers behind them Hawks couldn't touch them when/if he turned on them. And he definitely didn't think that Hawks would actually kill anyone. But he was wrong.

In the end, he got exactly what he wanted, but I don't think he ever expected that the League would pay the price for it. Along with everything with his family, he might think that he deserves to die for what happened. For failing the people closest to him one last time.

[itsnothingofinterest]

You know, for as much as I really don't like the AFO reveal of this chapter and how it looks to attack Tomura's agency; I do like how almost in the same breath it confirms just how much the things and people Tomura's been fighting for mean to him. And I need some Tomura positivity as a palate cleanser to AFO; so I think I'll join everyone in rightly gushed about his lines of being a hero for villains, because that part made me so happy.

Like, I have heard over and over until now how Tomura doesn't and never did care about the League’s causes or all this systemic stuff he yaps about, he only cares about the trauma of having killed his family with the quirk he was born with. And that's all AFO's fault probably, so once the reveal is done it'd turn out Tenko has no reason to be a villain, since as the cringelord put it, "[Tomura's] never made a single decision of [his] own".

But immediately after learning just how much he cares about being born with Decay, we also learned that his conviction is not so shallow. He truly did and does want to be a hero for the people the system doesn't support & heroes don't save; the unpopular kids, the petty crooks, the complete psychos who no one, not even Deku would give a real chance too. For as much as it messes him up to think about his past; the hatred was just drive, gas in the tank much like Bakugou's attitude or whatever anger Deku reserves for guys like Overhaul or AFO.

And it’s not even just the League either; the entirety of the PLF’s 6-figure membership came around to him, and outside of them we see this chapter a handful of other civilians rooting for him instead of Deku. Heck, even before this chapter we heard mention of people who looked to and supported the League in secret; online and such. Some will call these isolated examples, but who knows how many or how few people there are looking at him as their symbol of hope instead of Deku or Endeavor because they too are desperate for a change the heroes aren't offering.

Redestro once asked what Tomura wants to build. He responded he only wants to destroy. I believe the full truth is that he wants to clear the way to a world for them.

Despite what's claimed by AFO and readers who I feel overstate his impact on Tenko; Tomura really did care about the League, he cared about doing away with the threats to their lives & livelihoods, he wanted to be their hero and save them. Deku can reach his heart but no pretty words about holding hands could ever change that; and this core motivation never had anything to do with AFO.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

(I mean, unless it was. Everything else about Tenko was caused by AFO's manipulations in service to him apparently, why not his drive to be a hero for the discarded too? God I hate the direction that reveal is going, have I mentioned that yet? Oh how I hope expectations are subverted there.)

[arceus-insanity]

A Moral Scapegoat for who?

All For One is a shit character, he is presented as a massive threat, but we never see him get a win, similar to the dissonance between the All Might we see and the context in universe.

And in the end, he becomes a moral scapegoat... for the heroes.

What is a moral scapegoat?

A moral scapegoat is (usually) a character used to excuse the actions of other characters or a system. Character A may have done XYZ but Character B was the one manipulating them and/ or is so much worse, so we can excuse A's actions. Or helping defeat B acts as pence for their past actions. Etc. And to a degree it makes sense, getting people to believe a character has changed and should now be considered good both by the characters and the audience is hard. So having some bigger bad to blame takes the pressure off the desired character(s).

While the term is typically only brought up negatively, like the use of Mary&Gary Sues, there are good ones. Commander Zhao in Avatar of the Last Airbender is an early moral scapegoat, used to say yeah Prince Zuko may suck, but there are a lot worse out there. My Little Pony Friendship is Magic has a moral scapegoat, right in the pilot, Nightmare Moon for Princess Luna, sure Nightmare came from Luna but it is presented as a curse, something that was cured, fixed. The Hobbit uses Dragon Sickness as a way to both corrupt and excuse King Thorin's actions when they have retaken the mountain; he is not in his right mind, and shouldn't be considered solely responsible for his actions

In certain ways, Pink Diamond (due to the audience learning her arc in reverse, when it has such an effect on the plot of Steven Universe) is a scapegoat for the remaining Diamonds, even though it makes a lot less sense for her to be the scapegoat when considering the actual sequence of events in universe. And while most people don't think Pink/Rose's actions excuse the Diamonds (especially White), she does work with Spinel. Another rocky moral scapegoat is Horad Prime from She-ra & The Princesses of Power, he is the big bad of the show and is meant to be a scapegoat primarily for Horadak who was the previous big bad, and mildly a scapegoat for Catra. The big problems with his sacrificial slaughter is that there isn't enough time to really settle in that this is the true big bad, and both Horadak and Catra's issues were both way more on screen and show up well before we ever hear of Hoard Prime, with them operating separately.

And All For One is a worst example of all of them (that I mentioned)

For starters the more we saw of him the less ultimate intimidating evil he portrayed, nor did we get a satisfying he was actually pretty pathetic. Really trying to have your cake and eat it too. Looking back he's very cartoonishly evil, but lacks the presence, he's boring. I've seen many good portrayals of him in the fandom, but canon is just boring. His background of miscellaneous evil deeds, don't really go into how they were evil, just that Yoichi (& AFO) clearly believes them to be, both come across as very childish to me, seeing the world as black & white.

He lacks the moral complexity of complex villains (like Magneto), meant to be an ambitiously evil man, whose evil for the sack of being evil. But he lacks the presence found in Classic evil Disney characters like Jafar, Clayton, and Ursala. In a way he's like King Magnifico (from Wish, the only recent hated animated Disney movie, that I agree deserves to be shat on), trying to have both but failing to capture either

In the present, he has little involvement on screen, and once he's out of the picture, Shigaraki (& the League) really bloom as villains and characters. The story could have had a slow realization (for Shigaraki, the League and the audience) that he was holding the League back, and that meant either he was nowhere near as competent as he was portrayed, or he wasn't actually helping Shigaraki, setting up for the body suit plan

But my biggest issue is who he's the sacrificial goat for.

And who is he the scapegoat for? The fucking Heroes and their shit-ass society, including the H PSC crap.

The ending reveal that he was behind everything that happened to Tenko, from him being born, his name, the kids he chose to play with, the issues with his quirk, and only having him; fails. It doesn't work! Mainly because of what that scene ignored the walk, and the complicity of the family. It ignored that the family were directly ignoring that Tenko was being abused, trying to placate him after the fact. It ignores that Kotaro Shimura chose to follow his friends advice, over his wife too. It ignores that even though AFO would have killed anyone who tried to help Tenko, no one tried. It also doesn't make sense either, normal kids are shit actors, not to mention Tenko was the one to reach out to them, not the other way around. And with the sheer amount of heroes, and cops, and regular citizens, how was it literally no one tried to help him, it's not AFO.

What else does it ignore, oh yeah, Tenko isn't truly unique in having a tragic backstory. Sure he was planning on taking advantage of the Endeavor's awful legacy plan, but we never see that AFO has done anything before kidnapping Touya. It's implied that he helped stroked Heteromorphic discrimination for his own gain, but that doesn't change that Spinner had pesticides thrown in his face, by 'innocent' civilians, that Shoji was mutilated as a child, for saving a child, by 'innocent' civilians, that the Ordinary Lady was attacked and denied shelter in the middle of an active warzone, by 'innocent' civilians. Himiko's abuse was enabled and furthered by quirk counselling, we don't even get a he was secretly to blame all along for this one. The commission has assassins, ignore. The homeless have to resort to villainy to survive, ignore. Once someone is considered out they are abused by this society until they have to lash out, ignore. The big bad was taken down, so nothing has to be done about these systemic issues, cause the heroes say so

There's a pattern, he was only able to do this, because the society he was in was already doing it.

And AFO being a moral scapegoat could of worked.

IF the Hero Public Safety Commission was similarly a scapegoat.

To begin, AFO should have been the scapegoat for the League, and the villains as a whole. The heroes would instead have the HPSC as their scapegoat.

Hawks should not have been made president of the totally different PSC, not only is he a known murderer, he doesn't regret it, he has never criticized the Commission's (or any other hero's) actions. If he's not going to see the issues, and hypocrisy right in front of him, he shouldn't have any role at all in it, and a very small one if he does recognize them. Giving this to Hawks screams nothing is actually going to be fixed, any changes are going to be for the worse.

Going into the final Deku vs Shigaraki battle, as well as the dreamscape crap, I had hope in this series. I thought that Deku would finally be forced to have the long over reality check of the Villains are right, what are you going to do about it. So instead of hyper-focusing on one tiny moment that with any and I do mean any additional context would show that it's not just this tiny shit moment. Rather than murdering Tomura for not abandoning the League (the same reason Hawks murdered Twice), have Deku convince Tomura that they can make a better society. That Deku's peaceful(ish) method is what's better for the League we have seen he loves.

From there they could have come up with a deal where either (these are simplified) everyone is held accountable for their past actions (as in the villains, Endeavor, Hawks, the Commission, everyone responsible for the sky coffin, etc). Or the clock is restarted, and everyone is hence forth held to the same standard. The villains are around to make sure the actual issues to their problems are dealt with, hint; Himiko's problem wasn't lack of access to quirk counselling. Happy satisfying ending for everyone

[nyc3]

@mikeellee @kite2013

As you both notice, it's kind of funny how the interactions of Dr Garaki with both Nine and Shigaraki are such different in the way the scientist treats them (despite both are just lab rats in the end).

Because see how Garaki openly insults, disrespects and laughs of Shigaraki ideas in front of his supposed friends.

Garaki probably felt almost insulted for having to keep the game going just because AFO wants Shigaraki to have this illusion of free choice, when in reality he's just a kid which they still have in the palm of their hand.

Even after MVA when Garaki shows a bit more of tolerancy to Shigaraki for mantain the illusion, in the inside he still makes fun of him because obviously he's the only person to really know Shigaraki is just a vessel playing to be the super villain.

But then we have his interview with Nine...

Notice how the aptitude and demeanor of the doctor is completely the opposite of what we saw with Shigaraki.

Despite obviously he's offering Nine be part of a shady experiment, he acts strangely polite and even shows a bit of curiosity when Nine expose his motives to be part in the experiment.

But also, Garaki thinks Nine is a dangerous individual despite in theory he should be the one in control of the situation and unlike in Shigaraki's case, Nine is alone in front of the doctor.

The biggest difference on how Garaki view Nine and Shigaraki, is that in the first case he sees a real man with strong convictions and an indomitable will who could actually change the curse of the world if he's given the chance.

This is my headcanon, but I think Garaki saw in Nine's eyes the closet to AFO in spirit and convictions (and it's interesting how both of them have the same white/silver eyes, coincidende?).

But for Shigaraki?

He only sees a dumb kid who doesn't even understand the situation he's in. A more obvious puppet who can be used the way he likes.

Shigaraki never had any chance with Garaki.

Oh I forgot to mention, but it's also funny as hell how the doctor shows more respect to Dabi in their private conversations than he does with Shigaraki in the same situation.

This happens because just like Nine, Dabi was a dangerous person who can't be controled so easily by him. So at least it gives him a bit more of respect by the crazy doctor.

[tmufruitss]

⚠️ spoilers for mha chapter 429

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tw: suicide mention

Never in my life would i have thought in 2018 that the series that focuses on proving hero's can be bad people and villains are made would spit on it's own leagacy like this.

When i first watched mha in 2018 i genuinely hoped for the villains to die because back then i couldn't fathom that they were survivors of their own abuse, fighting to dismantle that very system that allowed to abuse to happen in the first place.

But now it's just so ??? What are we doing here?

Revealing afo has been controlling tenko's life before he was even born, served no point whatsoever, i think it made everything 10 times worse from a story telling perspective. The whole point used to be how anyone could turn out like Tenko, groomed and abused. That's not the case anymore though, we saw how Tenko was doomed before he was even born.

And don't get me started on the new character being set up to be Tenko 2.0 which is the most stupid shit i've ever seen. Oh wow great last time we couldn't save the abuse victims but maybe this time? Or idk maybe next generation, third times the charm. /s

The hero ranking system still exists for some reason, quirk counseling doesn't work? UA gets to continue training child soldiers like before, there are no recordings of the war and it will not be mentioned anywhere except for Spinner's comic which nobody is gonna read😭

And I would have gotten over Tenko dying at one point right but the Himiko reveal today was really the final nail in the coffin.

Killing a 17 year old child, no letting her kill herself, to save another dying child? Yes suicide is so very heroic /s (and not even giving Ochako a proper conclusion?)

"Only people that want to be saved deserve to be saved, but also not really" is basically the moral of the story here which is such an insane thing to potray in a story in 2024.

Like Nagant explodes gets to live, Bakugos heart explodes and he lives because of Edgeshot who somehow lives as well? Himiko does a blood transfusion and dies 😭

It doesn't sit right with me at all that the abused characters got killed of/ in a facility left to die.

[bibibbon]

I have mentioned how Izu is single out in his own story in many ways but...can I say how bk is the root of all the problems the manga has? Yes, even the Tododrama.

"but bk didn't abused the Todos" True, it was Endy...but the blame still goes to BK bc in a story where HE can mistreated, abuse and try to kill the MC OF THE STORY and no one baits an eye ...why the tododrama would be different?

If Izu has to look up to his abuser and call him cute nicknames...why Endy wouldnt center himself as "mea culpa" and take the spotlight in the narrative of the Todorokis?

It's all a domino effect.

Hori constructed a narrative and even framed as BK's actions aren't that bad. People thought it was funny.

"lol typical BK" as he says smth cruel to Izu or you know, tries to kill him.

People start to ship him back the day...with Izu. People were saying "wait for his character development/redemption" and well...it became a question of what BK feels, not Izu.

Doesn't that feels similar ?

Who cares what Toya or Shoto feels? It's more important to know what Endy is feeling.

If the mc of this story can be abused and no one bait an eye(be in the story or in the fandom at large) why people are shocked the Tododrama is being like that?

Its absolutely consistent with how MHA is since day 1. The victim deserves nothing and the abuser has a pity me party.

Hi @mikeellee 👋

Well sure bakugo definitely has a huge influence but it's not bakugo himself that directly caused the todoroki family drama and neither would I label it as such.

I get the point that it's characters like bakugo that are the root cause for a lot of societies problems!! I also agree with this sentiment.

I think that there is also evidence for this since bakugo shares a lot of paralleling imagery or just parallels with horrible characters like Enji todoroki and All for one. I remember one of @sapphic-agent posts that talked about bakugo and his lack of a main villain was because he was his own villain. Bakugo is the prototype for one of the worst types of people that exist in MHA society and it's worse that his previous behaviour goes unpunished. This is also another parallel that he has with enji todoroki. I would like to say Iam surprised but Iam not.

I think it's interesting how horikoshi managed to simply normalise bakugo's abusive, aggressive and rash behaviour and even turn it into what some may call an enjoyable gag for the readers to see and go "classic bakugo" or some other type of excuse.

So yes if bakugo can do it other characters can do it that meaning enji and AFO who got away with a lot heck afo was somehow even humanised?!?!?!?!

I can never understand canon BKDK shippers like Iam sorry but what do they see in that. Izuku literally has no agency or autonomy here it completely sucks and its toxic as heck. Also it's very ooc considering that bakugo hates Izuku's guts and has only recently started to act civil towards him. Also bakugo never went through a proper redemption so I don't see the appeal. I think that a lot of shippers may ignore these factors which is where fanon and a much more healthier version of BKDK comes in but I still hate it tbh 🤷‍♀️.

Yes classic hori somehow managed to turn his story into one where the abusers are always praised and the victims are either always perfect little angles that forgive and forget everything or spiteful and vengeful with the urge to burn society down.

[codenamesazanka]

I've been looking at some old Japanese villain fan tweets about Toga from Chapter 395, and most of them seem pretty okay with Toga's ending - her dying on her own terms. Which is 😕 to me but.

The overwhelming conclusion from both japanese hero and villain fans alike that no matter what, the League will be getting the death penalty. Maybe life in prison, but most agree it's the death penalty for Shigaraki, Toga, Dabi had he been less burned. Even Spinner and Compress, the less notorious members, might be getting it, because they were part of the terrorist cell. Not immediately that we would see in the epilogue, but eventually.

From the book The Culture of Capital Punishment in Japan:

...Murakami noted that “as a general argument, I adopt a stance of opposition toward the death penalty” but then said “I cannot publicly state, as far as this case is concerned, ‘I am opposed to the death penalty’,” because he had acquired “a painful awareness of the feelings of some bereaved families.”

By arguing that he opposes capital punishment but not in this case, Murakami is articulating a sensibility—the death penalty is “unavoidable” (yamu o enai)—that is ubiquitous in Japan’s culture of capital punishment. [...] Japan’s government uses it to ask citizens whether they support capital punishment (a typical survey question asks “Do you agree that the death penalty is unavoidable in some cases?”). The “unavoidable” expression simultaneously suggests that the death penalty “cannot be helped” and that the speaker is ambivalent about this purportedly “inescapable” outcome. The reservations wrapped in the expression suggest that Japanese capital punishment continues to operate because agents of the state (prosecutors, judges, politicians) and citizen-onlookers represent themselves, to themselves and others, as cogs in a machine over which they have little control.

This punishment simply is. Even in this fictional world. Even though a lot of the League were victims. Even if the villains we saw locked up in Tartarus are never put to execution, and the death penalty is only offhandedly mentioned.

And if this is inevitable in the League's future, then why not go out on your own terms? If death is certain, you might as well die by your own hand (Toga), or go out in battle (Shigaraki). (Never mind that Toga's death was preventable, and Shigaraki was possessed and all he got to do was help punch-kill AFO.) Japanese villain fans are upset about Dabi's fate, but from what I saw, it's mostly because he's meeting such a quiet end.

Another thought: perhaps it's because the Villains were saved, they also had to die. If you stay a unrepentant mofo, like Muscular, then you don't have the decency to recognize your sins and allow yourself to die. But if you were saved and recognize your sins, you have no choice but to die for all the deaths you caused.

(Again, I don't think that works quite for the League, who stay pretty unrepentant about the upheaval they caused??? especially Toga, who states that she was gonna skeddadle; but in a way, she recognized that she hurt Ochako, so she gave up her blood.)

(also. to say nothing of Enji and Hawks being alive. or even Nagant. But some japanese fans are at least upset that Enji and Hawks aren't going to receive any in-universe official punishment for what they did.)

[kite2013]

Seeing your post about the Villain Hunt Arc reminded me how much I dislike Hori and 1A as characters for neglecting Izuku.

Basically two things I hate about 1A vs Deku: first how contrived the whole situation is, because the odds that 1A is able to find Izuku in middle of what is essentially a warzone is ludicrous. Not to mention it would have been smarter to have split the class into groups if they were actually serious of finding Izuku because he could have been literally anywhere in Japan looking for AFO (What were the Heroes's Clues or leads? are you telling me they couldn't use satellites to track down the villains's last movements?)

In addition, Izuku for some reason doesn't use Gearshift to evade 1A as soon as they cross paths. Obviously, it would not be the right narrative decision to make but Izuku is in lone wolf mindset and 1A laughably failed to prove they could stand up to the villains besides maybe Shoto or Bakugo(never mind that he should be dead already)

But overall I just hate the wasted potential of the Villain Hunt Arc, Izuku was finally by himself and able to interact with other characters but none of that happens because it got cut short and Hori seemed to think that Izuku's arc was completed just taking a bath.

In retrospect, it almost feels like a meta-foreshadowing of what would happen to Izuku afterwards. Izuku just goes alone not seeking to be a burden on anyone and his classmates not only fail to address any of his concerns or mental well-being but avoid him after he lost OFA and is just forgotten by everyone despite arguably single Handly turning back the tide against the villains running amok.

I wish Izuku would be iseakied to a different series already, to a different world that would appreciate Izuku and his heroism.

You summarised my thoughts exactly

I was on Twitter when the Arc ended and even some casual viewers were disappointed

Class 1A lucked out finding Izuku (I think they used a gps tracker they got from Endeavour)

Guess it shows Japan became a bit more safer thanks to his efforts

The whole class being together was for it to be this big emotional moment where Izuku realises he can trust them

Too bad it came across as if anything but that

Instead it felt like an entire group of bullies jumping a exhausted, hungry Izuku who still held back from hurting his "friends"

It's actually infuriating to read. They go straight for a beat down before trying to talk Izuku out of handling everything by himself.

Kaminari has this line

Wow boundaries much?

I get that Izuku is trying to escape but they jump straight to violence when Izuku would only use it as a last resort

This is pure projection from Bakugo

I feel sorry for Izuku for having to put up with this shit when he's at his lowest

When everything was set and done and Izuku breaks down after Ochako's speech

It all ends with a bath to solve all of Izuku's mental anguish and injuries

Thanks Hori

If it was all gonna end in a gag then why did you highlight how everything has gone to hell

And you're completely right about the ending

If Class 1A were friends with Izuku to the point they would force him back to UA while it's a warzone out there, then why ditch him after he helped win the war?

It just comes across that they only got Izuku back during the Villain hunt arc, because Izuku was a important asset, not because for any friendship or camaraderie reason like they kept telling him

Honestly feel the whole Izuku being iseakied to another series

The closet thing we have to that is fanfics.

I don't know if you'd like to read one where Izuku is treated alot better. But if you do then I know a mutual @mikeellee who does this well.

Thanks for the Ask

[x-kiwi-03]

He'll just start over huh?? *shaking bc it's all coming to together*

I don't think it ment he'd transfer All for One to the closest hero but rather use one of his 'spares' to take another route in his plan.

We keep getting reminded of Chisaki. His quirk being the foundation of Decay, Deku losing his arms, him showing up in Shigaraki's mind-place. I think this is intentional on Horikoshi's part, trying to stir up some wonder on where Chisaki is and why he just sorta disappeared.

Chisaki's a bit of a mystery, we don't know who his true parents are, we don't know how he ended up in the doctor's facility, or how Afo knew he was another soul tainted by the unjust hero system.

"That one boy" I'll be honest, this could easily be about Dabi. But why not say "Dabi", the doctor was already talking about him using his name. That whole dialog sorta feels like a warning about another. (I put the whole panel for y'all to interpret yourself if you wanna. First of three⬇️) Not to mention the doctor's wording, "didn't buy what we were selling", Kai's whole arc was about getting people to buy what he was selling.

Not to mention this checks out with Chisaki's personality. He's known to be deviant like Dabi, to go off and do what he thinks is best despite what others say. A lot of people speculate that Kai ran away from the doctor's facility, and that's when the yakuza boss found him. The yakuza boss and crime facility that's said to be the only thing he likes, and he lost it all because he believed he knew better.

Now stay with me on this one...

Chisaki needed to lose his independent personality (or, in better terms, Afo needed Chisaki to lose his independent personality). Kai needed to go through and lose everything he valued because of this independent behavior so he would grow to hate and shun that part of himself. This would make him vulnerable to someone's words; "Let me lead you", "You never do anything right yourself", "You need guidance, I can guide you".

If/once Chisaki finds out the boss is dead and it's naturally all his fault, that'll be his true breaking point and when he's at his most vulnerable. I've literally been saying this for years, Kai is the perfect target for Afo's fresh start.

Horikoshi's been talking about a sequel, who knows if he'll actually make it or how long it'll be when he does. But I really hope that he'll up the rating so his managers will let him go more indepth with his villains like he said he wanted to.😭

[mikeellee]

MHA: the MC and the main villain are always wrong and sidelined

Hi, so I mentioned before how everyone always proves Izuku and Shig wrong...characters like AFO and BK belittle, abuse, and hurt Izu and Shig and...are right about them. Shig is a loser who did nothing (things fall on his lap, no questions)

I hope I can put my idea here, basically...every character says smth negative about Izuku and Shigaraki, which is a parallel in itself.

Dr. Evil

AFO.

Mirio

Overhaul

Redestro

Said how Shig is a loser (Dr. Evil was really on his face) and ....Shig doesn´t react.

Izuku

Bk

Aldera

Aizawa

Hound Dog

A1

Izuku defeated Overhaul, who is way above BK, and guess what? He is not allowed to win against his abuser. He doesn´t change...He still thinks he is useless... He is the odd duck.

Shig is confident yes (a nice contrast with Izu ...if only was written by someone who doesn´t detest Izu and Shig) but is not smart, has no agency or thinks about his actions...He doesn´t realize how HE IS THE NPC of AFO.

What´s the point here? I don´t know at this point, is not my words that will change villain stans on their views on both characters...its just how in the end Shig and Izu have such insane amouth of parallels. And the story ends with them having 0 relationship.

Not as brothers

Not as friend

Not as lover

They are strangers...and I can admit that.

As I can say, again, they have insane amount of parallels.

[sapphic-agent]

Let's Talk About Shigaraki

I've had some time to collect my thoughts, so I think I'm ready to finally talk about Tomura.

Fair warning, this is more of a rant. Mostly because there isn't much to say except that Horikoshi hates this motherfucker, almost as much as he hates Izuku.

Tomura is a character whose autonomy and agency has been stripped by the narrative repeatedly. And that's not really uncommon in MHA (Izuku, Hawks, Shoto, etc.), so why am I pointing it out? Because Horikoshi's assassination of his character didn't need to happen. In fact, it feels like he bent over backwards to make sure it happened.

Anyone who's been around my blog long enough knows that the MLA arc is one of my favorites, I even put it in my top five MHA arcs. It did a great job of having Shigaraki progress as not only a villain but a leader and come into his own power. My one issue with it and what kept it out of top three was that it seemed to immediately undo all the progress Tomura made by making him want AFO (the quirk). Him gaining this quirk didn't tie into his goals at all and it flipped him from wanting to use his destruction to make a world for the LOV to be free in (Eric Vale's delivery of this scene in dub was fire btw, go watch it) to him just wanting more power. It was an extremely weird decision.

The PLA War further perpetuates this and it causes some confusion as to where Horikoshi was going with his character. Instead of a newly established in-control and ambitious villain, he turned Tomura into a puppet for All For One to use for his own benefit.

(Off topic, but that also felt out of character for AFO. Prior to this, he seemed to want Tomura to succeed and carve his own path, even taking the time to gently correct his outbursts and give him actual advice and guidance. You could argue that this was manipulation on his part, but it didn't feel like it at the time. Why would he want Tomura to be level-headed and calm if the plan was to use him as a husk for his own control? It felt way more like Tomura was initially meant to be his successor, not his puppet. This reads more like another Horikoshi retcon)

For some reason, it feels like the intention was to turn him into a victim for Izuku to save. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing... Except he didn't develop Izuku enough for him to be able to do that.

Izuku doesn't understand Tomura, he even admits this himself. He sees Tomura as someone who causes destruction for the hell of it. And you know what? He wasn't wrong going off his few interactions with him. But that's where we hit our problem; Izuku has not interacted enough with Tomura.

And honestly? There's no excuse for this. They're supposed to be our protagonist and antagonist. They're supposed to be parallels with one another. So why in the world do they only really have one intimate scene together?

(I have mentioned this before, but Izuku should have been the one kidnapped, not Bakugou. Bakugou being in this position provides nothing to the plot, especially because All Might would have sacrificed his power for anyone. Bakugou isn't a dynamic or integral enough character for this to benefit the character progression of Tomura or the rest of the LOV, but Izuku is. Him learning why they're villains would have really done so much for their characters, as well as his own)

This leaves their interactions during the Final War completely stagnant and stale. Izuku doesn't understand Tomura, and Tomura knows that. He sees Izuku as a goody-two-shoes with no understanding of how dark the world can be. Except Izuku does understand because he experienced it. But how would Tomura know that? And how would Izuku know how Tomura became a villain? There's no understanding between them which is why Izuku is unable to connect with Tomura like he did Stain and Gentle Criminal. Which is why him trying to save Tomura goes nowhere.

It didn't have to be like this though. Even if it was rushed, Horikoshi could have squeezed it in. He could have made the effort. He chose not to. Partly because he can't be assed to give either of them good development, but also because he avoids the shit Izuku went through like the plague. He hates to acknowledge it and when he does it's sugarcoated (and used for Bakugou's gain, not Izuku's own). Because of he gets into the nitty gritty of it, his favorite blond rat's "development" goes right out the window.

Horikoshi wrote himself into a corner here, which is why the Izuku vs Tomura fight is so lackluster. Their interactions mean nothing, so their fight means nothing. What's his solution to this?

To fucking kill Tomura and retcon his entire backstory to force AFO back into the plot.

The last shreds of agency Tomura had as a villain were ripped away. He can't even have his own tragic backstory at this point. Hell, Kotaro can't even own his own shitty decisions, blame is pinned on Nana even though him abusing his kids was his choice and AFO somehow had a hand in him having kids?? Ok.

(Abusive man not being held accountable without someone else- a woman- taking the shit for it, what else is new in MHA)

Also, WHAT THE HELL DO YOU MEAN AFO GAVE HIM DECAY?

In all fairness, this has been a theory for a while. But again, the entire point of his character in the MLA arc was that he took charge of his "cursed" power and made it his own. So AFO giving him Decay erases another part of his development.

(And to add to this, what exactly was the point of having him take a quirk away from Tomura? Why not make him born quirkless so a parallel can be drawn to Izuku (and even Aoyama)? What is it with Horikoshi and quirkless aversion? There are four characters born quirkless in the narrative even though they're supposed to make up 20% of the population: Izuku, Aoyama, All Might, Melissa. Only Melissa stays quirkless)

AFO just happening upon Tomura- desperate, shunned, and vulnerable- who just happens to be Nana's grandson makes him so much eviler and more despicable. Him seeing an exposed child and deciding to use him to be cruel to Nana's memory and Toshinori drives home his callousness. Making it so that he orchestrated it just takes away from that. Tbh, it just makes him look like a loser. So, both Tomura and AFO just suffered character assassination.

Back to killing Tomura, do you know how awful this comes off? This character claimed his own power and goals, only for that to be stripped by making him a puppet, the attempt to save him is drawn out and goes nowhere, and then he just fucking dies. Like he never mattered at all. Like trying to save him was a complete waste of time and there's nothing about him worth saving.

And people saying he deserved to die for his crimes, THAT ISN'T THE POINT. It isn't about what he did or didn't do. I couldn't care less about that. It's about how Horikoshi stripped him of agency again and again and then discarded him when he didn't serve the shitty narrative he created.

Tomura and Izuku deserved so much better than this

[itsnothingofinterest]

So latest news on Dabi seems to be that he looks to be on an ambulance stretcher it (I mean we can't be sure when we can only see a while 16 pixels of generic anime hair, but it does match Touya's anime hair). Which is great if true because that means he's alive and going to get care.

But as someone who wasn't too worried he was going to die anyway; my only thought on this is that I hope there's a way for him to get from hero custody to the battle at Mt. Fuji. Because not only do I not want him kept out of the big climax when everyone else is coming back; but at this stage, it really looks like Tomura will need as many of the other villains from the League as possible to get free from AFO.

I mean a lot of us have already reached this conclusion: with AFO having invalidated so much of Tomura/Tenko's life and motivations and it visibly crushing and destroying his soul; his connections to the League are all he'd have left to hold on to, and that means they're the best choices to remind him of that and wake him up, to light that fire in him to beat AFO from the inside one last time. And like, I don't think readers want to acknowledge this very much, but even with everyone here, no one is hear to save Tomura (same as ever); they're here to fight Tomura/AFO and they don't care who it is. I mean Deku might be (though tragically, ch. 420 has instilled some doubts I'm afraid. Still not sure what to think of that.), but we've seen where his help has gotten Tomura so far; and even then, he's one teenage boy who is not exactly equipped for this task no more. Besides that, no one else can save Tomura; he needs the League, Dabi very much included.

So, like, maybe Toga can free Dabi in an upcoming chapter (I've heard theories that she may have split from Uraraka & gotten away before the news helicopters arrived, hence no one mentioning her.) and meet up with Spinner to get a ride from a woken-up Kurogiri or something. Because man does Tomura need them now more than ever.

[nikki-152006]

In case anyone is interested in reading a Dabi fanfic I'm writing on Quotev currently:

DETAILS:

slowburn

realistic-ish

I'm not sure whether you call sort-of-kindapping a hero students and forcing her to work for you until everyone actually gets close as Enemies to Lovers but that's what it should be?

[For spoilers or reader feedback, feel free to check the discussions/comments section.]

Poster: (a little blurred here for some reason idk why) (also, before you ask why I'm adding this, idk why)

Initial chapters may be a tiny bit off considering I'd written them quite some time ago but the current ones are going good ;)

Quick summary? [if u don't want spoilers, read only first 3 paras]

This isn't the official story description, it's just a hurried summary in layman's language for the Dabi fandom but here it goes— the reader's character or the MC is a third year hero student along with Midoriya Izuku and his batch. They've all been fighting the Paranormal Front for almost three years now but have not yet been able to completely foil All for One.

Apparently the Front has been lying low for some time which is obviously suspicious. In actuality, AFO is trying to swallow Shigaraki's body and the guy is fighting hard. The heroes meanwhile launch a joint underground investigation and send only hero students in it (why this, is a story plot reveal later on). And just to the worst of her luck, the reader runs into Dabi on the very first day.

Is it a typical "oh I ran into a villain incident on the very first time and Imma fall in love with him just like that"?

Nope. As mentioned above, the fanfic is "realistic-ish".

Well then one day Aizawa gets to know and there's a catharsis of all the guilt and trauma she has had while being with the villains because of course it feels like cheating on everyone who she has ever known.

It's slow burn so obviously, there is a massive, massive block of "platonic" (as these both call it) teasing and playing around before MC realises her feelings.

But it doesn't magically become the sweetest thing in the world, because oh. The story name is "Deviated" and she knows this sort of a relationship between a hero and villain is far too deviated from what can be accepted by the world.

Unless the war breaks out.

War arc has just ended and I'm currently writing the very first post-war chapter.

Translation: realistic romances have begun!

There's a lot I'm going to get out in this chapter because Dabi is an immediate lead to long threads of intoxicating fantasies (to everyone who even likes him) and so why not?

LINK to Deviated- Dabi X Reader