#shigaraki deserved better

[thr0wnawayy]

A few weeks ago someone in my inbox asked me what I thought of AFO and of I ever thought he was a proper villain.

My answer is simple: he was.

At first AFO was a mentor. where All Might struggled to teach, AFO excelled.

Always finding a way to turn every play into a learning opportunity.

He allows for the USJ to heppen so he can Tomura "show" that collaboration is important, he uses Stain's rejection to teach Tomura that he has to use tact. He uses the Training Camp to prove that there is strength in numbers

AFO always thinks ahead, he learns from his mistakes and that makes him deadlier than the HPSC could ever hope to be.

The Nomu are a great example of this, the USJ Nomu was a great start, although I suspect it was designed to fail. It served as an excellent display of what a Nomu could be.

The Hosu Nomu failed because of a lack of armour and variety, so AFO made the Forest Nomu better.

The Forest Camp Nomu is seen wearing a helmet and has multiple quirks to account for it's blindspots.

The Forest Nomu failed due to a lack of awareness and intelligence, so Hood was designed specifically for his intelligence and his strength as to not be caught of guard.

(I suspect AFO left some notes for the doctor)

The Nomu came back stronger each time, the data collected was building up towards an optimized specimen( which we were supposed to see with the Finalized High Ends)

Each and every time AFO let Shigaraki use the Nomu, he was killing two birds with one stone.

Additionally, he supports Tomura while not smothering gum

Letting Tomura learn from his own experience (be it successes or failures) and forcing Tomura to learn restraint.

He prevents him from lashing out at any one individual (like he did w Kurogiri) by forcing him to actually work with his teammates.

AFO makes Tomura reflect on why he failed, he encourages Tomura's ventures constantly and gives him advice.

These are hallmarks of someone who wants to see their student succeed.

If that's not enough then there are two lines that solidify AFO'S original character:

The line that really settles me however, is this:

"Just When Tomura had begun to think for himself "

If Shigaraki really were just a puppet from the start, why would AFO go to all the trouble of guiding for him, teaching and training him. Letting him build a legacy of his own and support him.

Why would he hire Giran, after all it will all be for naught, so why waste resources?.

The simple answer is to blame Hori and inability to stay consistent in anything. (In the business we call this, having no fucking spine)

His Character

AFO's terror lay in his simplicity. Like AM, AFO is a man with a goal and he has the means to achive it, something he had worked for decades to achieve.

This is best demonstrated in his early mannerisms.

AFO never lies, he uses metaphors and technicalities to his advantage.

In the prison scene, he never lies about his goal, which was simple. Take out All Might with as a symbol and threat, while also getting Tomura to leave the nest.

He is also a show man, holding out on Tomura's history and turning his retirement into a spectacle to land a critical flow on his nemesis.

He's a master strategist, being able to predict the current state of society within his cell. He took everything AM loved, even going as far as to turn Tenko's tragedy into a triumph and spat on hero society in the process.

In short, AFO was the villain and when All Might walked out those doors, AFO was as good as dead.

The Downfall

Later, everything I mentioned was stripped and what we are left with is a gutted out husk, a shambling mockery of the genius we once knew.

After season 3, AFO might as well be dead because the leech that takes his place was probably the final nail in MHA's rapidly flooding coffin.

AFO goes from being a legitimate threat, a true symbol of evil. Someone so fearsome, that his mere presence causes visions of one's own death.

To a LARPer who's got as much depth as a kiddie pool, evil for the sake of evil.

From Symbol of Evil to (ugh) 'Demon Lord'.

This character is so far removed that I've taken to calling it 'The Husk'. As to me, AFO is canonically dead*.

This emptiness is even displayed in his musical themes

Where 'The Power of AFO' only needs a few simple instruments and hooks to instill dread, 'All For One Prime' falls flat.

The Power of AFO is dread inducing and it knows it. The song itself feels alive, like an unfathomable evil making it's presence known.

It reflects it's "master" with ease. It is dark, sophisticated and unlike any other piece heard in the series, it is quiet.

True power doesnt need to say it is powerful, it shows it through it's actions. Real power stays in the shadows

Meanwhile AFO Prime is lacking.

It's grandeous and "lighter" but that's it, beyond that it is hollow. Ironically representing what Hori did to MHA.

The theme is nice but ultimately uninspired, causing it to ring hallow when coupled with a failing plot that is speeding towards it's quiet demise.

Few more thing's before I check out.

Why the fuck did they change AFO's eyes.

It completely ruined the parallels between AFO, Tomura and Eri, while also the unspoken lore of:

Quirks that deviate from both their parents often share the group traits of (red eyes, white hair).

You know what fuck it, Red Eyed AFO is Canon, Hori can suck it.

Secondly I have a theory for why AFO had such a stark shift in personality (outside of Hori's bullshit)

From My Notes:

When AFO was defeated and saved by the Doctor, he remained in a coma for 2 years, regenerating the missing tissue and brain matter.

This stopped the brain damage and deterioration from getting worse (sort of putting it in stasis), however upon being defeated by AM again at Kamino, the brain damage was aggravated and began to slowly break down his metal state, causing him to become increasingly delirious overtime.

Due to Tartarus' less then ethical treatment and safety protocols, as well as the brainwave scanner not being designed to detect which issues. The issue went untreated, by the time Shigaraki broke into Tartarus, AFO was long lost to mania. So much so he failed to remember his own background and the orgins of those around him.

(Hence the change from Symbol (Pre Kamino, Menacing, Intelligent) of Evil to Demon Lord,)

[explaining why he didn't take Overhaul and why he changed from passing the torch to parasite in "canon" and why he was so out of character (idiotic)] Also explaing the lore inconsistencies throught the later chapters.

Just some food for thought.

[arceus-insanity]

A Moral Scapegoat for who?

All For One is a shit character, he is presented as a massive threat, but we never see him get a win, similar to the dissonance between the All Might we see and the context in universe.

And in the end, he becomes a moral scapegoat... for the heroes.

What is a moral scapegoat?

A moral scapegoat is (usually) a character used to excuse the actions of other characters or a system. Character A may have done XYZ but Character B was the one manipulating them and/ or is so much worse, so we can excuse A's actions. Or helping defeat B acts as pence for their past actions. Etc. And to a degree it makes sense, getting people to believe a character has changed and should now be considered good both by the characters and the audience is hard. So having some bigger bad to blame takes the pressure off the desired character(s).

While the term is typically only brought up negatively, like the use of Mary&Gary Sues, there are good ones. Commander Zhao in Avatar of the Last Airbender is an early moral scapegoat, used to say yeah Prince Zuko may suck, but there are a lot worse out there. My Little Pony Friendship is Magic has a moral scapegoat, right in the pilot, Nightmare Moon for Princess Luna, sure Nightmare came from Luna but it is presented as a curse, something that was cured, fixed. The Hobbit uses Dragon Sickness as a way to both corrupt and excuse King Thorin's actions when they have retaken the mountain; he is not in his right mind, and shouldn't be considered solely responsible for his actions

In certain ways, Pink Diamond (due to the audience learning her arc in reverse, when it has such an effect on the plot of Steven Universe) is a scapegoat for the remaining Diamonds, even though it makes a lot less sense for her to be the scapegoat when considering the actual sequence of events in universe. And while most people don't think Pink/Rose's actions excuse the Diamonds (especially White), she does work with Spinel. Another rocky moral scapegoat is Horad Prime from She-ra & The Princesses of Power, he is the big bad of the show and is meant to be a scapegoat primarily for Horadak who was the previous big bad, and mildly a scapegoat for Catra. The big problems with his sacrificial slaughter is that there isn't enough time to really settle in that this is the true big bad, and both Horadak and Catra's issues were both way more on screen and show up well before we ever hear of Hoard Prime, with them operating separately.

And All For One is a worst example of all of them (that I mentioned)

For starters the more we saw of him the less ultimate intimidating evil he portrayed, nor did we get a satisfying he was actually pretty pathetic. Really trying to have your cake and eat it too. Looking back he's very cartoonishly evil, but lacks the presence, he's boring. I've seen many good portrayals of him in the fandom, but canon is just boring. His background of miscellaneous evil deeds, don't really go into how they were evil, just that Yoichi (& AFO) clearly believes them to be, both come across as very childish to me, seeing the world as black & white.

He lacks the moral complexity of complex villains (like Magneto), meant to be an ambitiously evil man, whose evil for the sack of being evil. But he lacks the presence found in Classic evil Disney characters like Jafar, Clayton, and Ursala. In a way he's like King Magnifico (from Wish, the only recent hated animated Disney movie, that I agree deserves to be shat on), trying to have both but failing to capture either

In the present, he has little involvement on screen, and once he's out of the picture, Shigaraki (& the League) really bloom as villains and characters. The story could have had a slow realization (for Shigaraki, the League and the audience) that he was holding the League back, and that meant either he was nowhere near as competent as he was portrayed, or he wasn't actually helping Shigaraki, setting up for the body suit plan

But my biggest issue is who he's the sacrificial goat for.

And who is he the scapegoat for? The fucking Heroes and their shit-ass society, including the H PSC crap.

The ending reveal that he was behind everything that happened to Tenko, from him being born, his name, the kids he chose to play with, the issues with his quirk, and only having him; fails. It doesn't work! Mainly because of what that scene ignored the walk, and the complicity of the family. It ignored that the family were directly ignoring that Tenko was being abused, trying to placate him after the fact. It ignores that Kotaro Shimura chose to follow his friends advice, over his wife too. It ignores that even though AFO would have killed anyone who tried to help Tenko, no one tried. It also doesn't make sense either, normal kids are shit actors, not to mention Tenko was the one to reach out to them, not the other way around. And with the sheer amount of heroes, and cops, and regular citizens, how was it literally no one tried to help him, it's not AFO.

What else does it ignore, oh yeah, Tenko isn't truly unique in having a tragic backstory. Sure he was planning on taking advantage of the Endeavor's awful legacy plan, but we never see that AFO has done anything before kidnapping Touya. It's implied that he helped stroked Heteromorphic discrimination for his own gain, but that doesn't change that Spinner had pesticides thrown in his face, by 'innocent' civilians, that Shoji was mutilated as a child, for saving a child, by 'innocent' civilians, that the Ordinary Lady was attacked and denied shelter in the middle of an active warzone, by 'innocent' civilians. Himiko's abuse was enabled and furthered by quirk counselling, we don't even get a he was secretly to blame all along for this one. The commission has assassins, ignore. The homeless have to resort to villainy to survive, ignore. Once someone is considered out they are abused by this society until they have to lash out, ignore. The big bad was taken down, so nothing has to be done about these systemic issues, cause the heroes say so

There's a pattern, he was only able to do this, because the society he was in was already doing it.

And AFO being a moral scapegoat could of worked.

IF the Hero Public Safety Commission was similarly a scapegoat.

To begin, AFO should have been the scapegoat for the League, and the villains as a whole. The heroes would instead have the HPSC as their scapegoat.

Hawks should not have been made president of the totally different PSC, not only is he a known murderer, he doesn't regret it, he has never criticized the Commission's (or any other hero's) actions. If he's not going to see the issues, and hypocrisy right in front of him, he shouldn't have any role at all in it, and a very small one if he does recognize them. Giving this to Hawks screams nothing is actually going to be fixed, any changes are going to be for the worse.

Going into the final Deku vs Shigaraki battle, as well as the dreamscape crap, I had hope in this series. I thought that Deku would finally be forced to have the long over reality check of the Villains are right, what are you going to do about it. So instead of hyper-focusing on one tiny moment that with any and I do mean any additional context would show that it's not just this tiny shit moment. Rather than murdering Tomura for not abandoning the League (the same reason Hawks murdered Twice), have Deku convince Tomura that they can make a better society. That Deku's peaceful(ish) method is what's better for the League we have seen he loves.

From there they could have come up with a deal where either (these are simplified) everyone is held accountable for their past actions (as in the villains, Endeavor, Hawks, the Commission, everyone responsible for the sky coffin, etc). Or the clock is restarted, and everyone is hence forth held to the same standard. The villains are around to make sure the actual issues to their problems are dealt with, hint; Himiko's problem wasn't lack of access to quirk counselling. Happy satisfying ending for everyone

[moodyvoid]

[momomallowart]

They deserve to have fun ʕ⁠ ⁠ꈍ⁠ᴥ⁠ꈍ⁠ʔっ✨

[commander-revan]

The League of Villains - First vs Last Appearances

[cremateyourlife]

[taeggukxiie]

this pic right here is the reason I'm depressed. (they both deserved sm better)

[shigarakisdumbwhore]

The parallels between Shigaraki, Dabi, and Toga

[polpol333]

I'm once again thinking of Tomura as a broken porcelain doll. It just fits him so well.

Both his ethereal beauty and kindness were tainted by trauma and grooming, but it's still visible, if only you stop looking at the cracks. He's a doll, because he was made to be used, to be an empty vessel. The sad thing is that he wasn't given a chance to be his own person, outside of his groomer's influence.

[kelin-is-writing]

Fuck you Endeavor. Fuck you All For One. Fuck you to all the Pro-Heroes. Fuck the Hero Society and FUCK YOU HORIKOSHI too 🥰

[bibibbon]

MHA and the bystander effect (long post)

MHA's society suffers heavily from the bystander effect.

I wish that this plot point was further explored and this could of been where we actually take all mights character somewhere and not waste him on the whole iron might bs.

It can be argued that we first see this as early as the first chapter where we have people simply standing there watching a hero take down a villain. In all retrospect when I see this I genuinely think of some kind of performance, the hero is a glorified soldier that has to elegantly perform their duty while ensuring the safety of lives and entertaining them.

We then have the attack with bakugo and the sludge villain. People again are standing there watching another performance go down except here the heroes don't know what to do and it can be argued that they aren't trying hard enough at all. The heroes look at the situation, say they don't have any compatible quirk that helps the situation and simply stand in the sidelines waiting for someone to come and help that's after the manh failed attempts. Now this absolutely wouldn't work considering the victim in this circumstance was getting choked to death and him struggling even more literally caused a fire and property damage. I think it's interesting how no one thought of simply aiming at the sludge villains eyes (his obvious weak spot) and it was izuku in his panic that actually helped save Katsuki and gave all might the strength and confidence to step up and do something. What's even more interesting is that at that moment all might like the other bystanders was also contributing to the bystander effect simply standing there distanced from the fight and involved in it at the same time.

The third time we see this is during the UA entrance exams. Everyone is focused on getting points and destroying robots not really paying attention to their surroundings. After releasing the zero pointer everyone priorities themselves and starts to run with no one sparing ochako (who is injured) an eye and offering to help her. Rather the unconscious thoughts are that someone else will help her and it's full of people trying to prioritise themselves as this is also an exam. Izuku also priorities himself and tries to get away until he sees ochako and this is the second time where he recklessly runs into danger.

I think what's really interesting is that nedzu made this the point of the test which is something that iida says to izuku when they meet again. Iida points out that saving peoples lives and helping them is indeed the point of the test and heroism yet the test is very much structured in a way where you need to destroy to save and you need to prioritise yourself which can be the test just being a microcosm for the real hero society.

We mainly and clearly see the bystander effect in action when it comes to shigaraki tomuras backstory. It can be argued that this is one of the major reasons what drives shigaraki to villainy. Throughout tenko's backstory people see him suffer yet they don't help him physically at all or are quite late to do so. This starts from his father's punishments to him aimlessly roaming the streets scared and alone just for all for one to come along and offer a hand to him. A villain ends up helping a child instead of the people who are supposed to do so (Iam ignoring the contents of chapter 420 that revealed that AFO was behind this all along)

Tenko's backstory also emphasises just how much society is dependent on heroes that they think they aren't responsible for anything and any remains of social responsibility are rather diminished as people are busy and turn a blind eye to an obviously scared kid who is suffering.

Heck we even have momo a class 1A member acknowledge that the bystander effect is a very big thing within hero society yet no one does much to reduce this. It seems that hero society actually makes it somewhat of a taboo to even intervene in situations and help people when you aren't a hero which is why labels such as vigilantes exists. This could be linked to what we find out what happens to lady nagant and how she was in charge of killing vigilantes or anyone who opposed the government.

You can say that the government uses heroes (like hawks and lady nagant) as a way to control citizens but this turns out to be a double edged sword for them as time goes on and all mights notorious reign of 'peace' falls the people start to wake up you can say.

Hero society especially with the rise of all might and the all might era has created a society that is rampant in the bystander effect and a society that relies, worships and glorifies heroes to a toxic extreme. Obviously this has negatively effected everyone in different ways. It's not only civilians that suffer but also the heroes who are put into extreme situations and have to live up to incredibly toxic and high standards while also appealing to the public. I think a great example of this is all might who is a character who suffered from the system yet upheld and was somewhat responsible for creating it.

After the war arc we see the hero society system crumble away and we see the complacent bystander effect fade away and get people become distrustful or heroes and anyone around them. During this arc we also see the once glorified and worshipped all might statue become vandalised and people abandoning any hope of the hero system or hero society in general. Chaos and panic are rampant and people have lost hope as the system dissolves.

In conclusion, if horikoshi actually handled this theme of bystander effect in hero society properly then we could of gotten a compelling story where villains or victims that suffer from it are saved. Hori could of also used this to show how flawed hero society is and how corrupt the hero public safety commission is as well.

Add on

Horikoshi during the vigilante arc also has civilians realise their compliance in all of this and how the hero system set them up in a way which they can relax and watch without having to do anything as society crumbles. It's such a shame that horikoshi takes this and basically diminishes any proper hope by making the ending of the second war arc a disaster.

[dudhsd]

You know what justice is? What peace is? Shigaraki and Dabi (and Twice ofc, and maybe Toga) living, and Endeavor and Hawks being dead. That would’ve been way better.

I call bullshit.

[irontragedyreview]

Some fans are like: Izuku had a great ending and closed a circle with OFA and being quirkless.

Me: for at least 200 chapters we don't know what the main character thinks, Tomura and him rarely interact and their final confrontation is rushed and empty of content and above all things he actually didn't accept being quirkless again and moved on, he just had to adapt to a situation, Horikoshi didn't leave a single moment of introspection for his pain and yet there are people who insist that his ending is good and Horikoshi is actually a great writer.

[lazylightjudgealmond]

SOBBING RN PLEASE MY HUSBAND

[nutzgunray-lvt]

So do people in MHA just... not analyze or research their Quirks?

A lot of fics love having the idea of there being Quirk Analysts, which I admit would be a very interesting concept (combined with Quirk Counseling), but it just doesn't hold up in canon.

Izuku and Shigaraki are treated as "creepy" for analyzing Quirks, and Izuku in particular is almost always made fun of or treated as "off putting" for his analysis notebooks, when it's strategically SMART for them to be so analytical.

[dykebakugowo]

Spinneraki nation how we feeling after the leaks