#The editors and owners do t even have I put the screws to a lot of these ‘journalists’

[tea-at-221]

So, let's delve a bit into the Spanish dub of Supernatural.

I'm going to go through a lot of terms here, and a lot of basics, in order to increase people's level of understanding as to how the dub may possibly have come about the way it did.

This post will provide information and, I hope, allow some members of the fandom to move forward with their own theories with more reassurance. Information is power. I will define and clarify industry terms to the best of my novice ability to make it easier for others who wish to do their own research.

This post was inspired by the fact that I've been part of multiple fandoms in which queerbaiting has played an enormous part: I am tired of seeing fandom friends left devastated and without answers, no emotional resolution in sight. So this post is, in spirit if not content, largely dedicated to my fellow Johnlockers and Queliot shippers. And most of all, for Quentin Coldwater, who deserved not just better but the very best.

Disclaimer: This is my own research and there is a bit of speculation involved; I can't guarantee 100% that I will get everything right (I hit some very frustrating walls looking up what should be easy-to-find facts), but I did a *lot* of work for this. Other people will doubtless be able to clarify points/give better specifics/correct what I've gotten wrong. I am not promising a concrete answer to “SPN gate” here, as without more information than we currently have that is impossible to declare with certainty.

More under the cut.

All that having been said, onwards (see end for sources):

First, who airs the Spanish dub of Supernatural?

Answer: the Warner Channel.

Why? It goes back to who owns The CW.

From Wikipedia (2): "The CW Network, LLC, a limited liability joint venture between the CBS Entertainment Group unit of ViacomCBS; and the Studios and Networks division of AT&T's WarnerMedia, the parent company of Warner Bros., former majority owner of The WB. The network's name is an abbreviation derived from the first letters of the names of its two parent corporations (CBS and Warner Media)."

Warner Bros apparently is the side that handles the delegation of dubbing to outside studios. So, who does Warner use for their dubbing? Perhaps multiple studios, but the two I found in the course of my research were SPGStudios(5) (who specifically handle localization for Latin American Spanish productions) and Iyuno Media Group (formerly BTI Studios)(3).

What is localization?

Simply put, it refers to the translation of the home language of the show in question to the language of the new market it's entering. So, Supernatural 15x18 is translated from its native English to Spanish for Latin American viewers.

And what exactly *is* dubbing (actually called revoicing within the industry; dubbing is a widely-recognized term, however, and it's pretty well understood what is meant by it)?

Here is the Merriam-Webster definition:

"1 : to add (sound effects or new dialogue) to a film or to a radio or television production —usually used with "in"

They dubbed in the music.

2 : to provide (a motion-picture film) with a new soundtrack and especially dialogue in a different language

The film was dubbed in French and Spanish.

3 : to make a new recording of (sound or videotape already recorded) also : to mix (recorded sound or videotape from different sources) into a single recording"

There is a slang term, "dubby," which refers to any overdub that is comically jarring and obviously a dub. The history of dubbing has been such that this has become a way to think of and recognize it: by how awful and ineffective it used to be when it came to foreign films sloppily overlaid with English dubbing.

However, we are in the midst of an age of networks and companies scrambling to play catch-up, eager to use modern technology to create more effective, convincing dubs. In short, they see the moneymaking potential of presenting finished works that viewers may not even realize *are* dubbed without careful inspection. It's true that a good dub is about 10x more costly than subtitling, but it's hard to satisfy the viewer's desire for escapism if they can't suspend disbelief because they're busy reading.

The truth of that is reflected in internal statistics Netflix (for instance, but not just them) parses to gauge viewer interaction and retention with their various shows: when comparing subtitled vs. dubbed shows, it's easy to see which is the winner.(1)

So to be sure there is no nefarious intent here, we would need to be able to identify the following:

A.) What exactly was the process for this dub?

B.) Who decides what changes to make during a dubbing process?

C.) Who approves those changes?

*Can* there be such a thing as a "rogue translator," as Misha Collins put it? (I am going to clarify here that I think Misha is an upstanding person who believed the best of the show he was involved in and all the people who made it, so his assumption of a rogue translator makes sense in the context of that emotion-based reasoning).

I'm not sure which studio did the dub for the Latin American Spanish version of Supernatural; if I had access to that episode perhaps it's mentioned in the credits. You'd think that would be simple enough to figure out anyway, but I was unable. So maybe someone can take a look and let me know. But, as an example, here is how SPGStudios outlines their localization (dubbing) process:

1.) They make a digital or analog transcription of a show/movie.

2.) The translation, or localization, is done by their staff (in any of 40 available languages their staff can speak). When translating, they translate for meaning and then adapt for time, tempo, and style. They say that "extensive experience is required to capture the essence of the language dialog while accounting for variances in speaking time between the source and destination languages." i.e.,  wording/word choice will be kept as true as possible to the original intention of the native language, but at the same time the translation will need to use its chosen wording in a way that fits what is being shown on-screen. To produce a convincing/pleasing dub, they won't replace a word like "looked" with a longer phrase like "scanned the horizon" because it's not going to match what's onscreen. That would be venturing into "dubby" territory.

3.) They perform the ADR process: the voice actors (in this case it would normally be Guillermo Rojas performing for Dean Winchester, though it appears things may have been different in 15x18, possibly due to covid) record the new dialogue to replace the original actor's performance.

4.) The newly recorded dialogue goes to the sound editorial department "to ensure that lip-synch is optimized and technical aspects of the vocal performance match the original."

5.) All of the new audio--including dialogue, music, and sound effects--is mixed together to emulate the quality of the original production as closely as possible despite the changes in rhythm that resulted from the dialog having been translated.

6.) Designers, animators, and VFX editors assist with the localization or enhancement of graphics, if needed.

7.) Localized Master: SPG has a 'traffic team' who 'ensures that all client delivery and storage specifications are met, including file formatting, labeling, and uploading." So in other words, the files are heavily encrypted (or that's how I read this).

Presumably, after all steps are performed, SPGStudios transfers the show back to Warner, who then distributes it. The other studio, Iyuno, makes it very clear that *they* can coordinate and handle all distribution themselves to a vast number of networks. That means that if the client desires, Iyuno can send the finished product directly out into the world.

There seem to be two types of scripts that can be given to the dubbing company:

1.) "In-Production Dubbing indicates that dubbing production is active in tandem with post production. In-Production Dubbing fulfillment partners should expect potential changes to source materials."(4)

2.) "Final Asset Dubbing indicates that dubbing production takes place after final delivery of the show. All source assets will be in a final state. The dubbing fulfillment partner should not expect any changes to the source materials."(4)

Without knowing which of these was agreed upon for SPN 15x18, it is very hard to say exactly where or if additional edits may have been performed on the original material that weren't performed on the translated material (in other words, earlier draft).

If the studio was given the episode as an In-Production Dubbing project, this could explain why the title of the Spanish translation reflected the original script title, "The Truth," rather than the final title in English, "Despair".

Assuming this difference was unintentional, rather than a calculated marketing ploy re: audience enticement (which seems admittedly unlikely), then yes, it could indicate a screw-up on someone's part. The question is, was the dub company given the task of generating the title card, or did some other graphics department handle that before the project made it to them? If the latter is the case, the choice to add "Me too" instead of "Don't do this, Cas" could be either a conscious choice on the dub studio's part as sort of a nod to what they thought "the truth" was, or could just be them going with what they were given and making their translation choices based on something else, such as rhythm/timing.

SO, could there have been an original script that had Dean say "me too" in response to Cas, which then went through translation and made it out into the world? Teeechnically yes, but one would assume that the original script and original *footage* would have to have arrived at the dub studio together if the script is being transcribed in-house as SPGSTudios outlines in their process. I'm going to reason that the odds of them using a later edit of the visual--one that contained what in this instance we would be assuming was Warner's preferred dialogue ("Don't do this, Cas") yet choosing to stick with their own audio revoicing of the (supposed) original script/visual's "Me too, Cas" with its now subsequently poor timing, seems unlikely.

So either they would likely have to redo the exact same "Me too" audio again (having made the choice to keep the original dialogue, while also having to work under pandemic restrictions re: travel and talent availability) to make everything match the visual footage time-wise, OR, it was simply a matter that the English scene always was just as we saw it, but that the studio chose to interpret the script the way they did and were able to do their timing the first time around to match accordingly.

This still leaves a question in the air regarding the origin and fate of certain clips of Dean's more visually emotive reaction to Castiel's confession that have been floating around the internet. I've only seen very very brief glimpses of them, myself, and I'm not certain that they're really evidence of anything other than more than one take having been done of that scene, which wouldn't be uncommon and doesn't necessarily point to a conspiracy.

I also want to state that in the wake of 15x18, I opted to protect my mental health rather than follow every development/rumor/speculation that cropped up in the aftermath, so there’s probably a lot that I’m leaving out of this post that may be pertinent. Do me a favor and do assume that I know nothing of it. lol

I will also add this about the other studio, Iyuno: they are very careful to state on their site, repeatedly and with great pride, that they are committed to presenting the world with the smoothest, most true-to-the-original localized version of a film or show possible. Quote: "...our entire team of staff wants nothing more than to make every single one of our partner's content feel as if it were never translated." They are not fucking around. They want to please the client. Would they have done something like the translation in question without any direct go-ahead from Warner? It seems unlikely, though they don't outline their process on their site the way SPG does.

Notice that in the SPGStudios process outlined above, there is no mention made of a review step in which the studio presents the translated dialogue to the client for approval re: the new wording. That doesn't mean there isn't a review step; however, without seeing the contractual agreement that was made between Warner and whatever dub studio they used, or knowing Warner's preferred process by some other means, it's difficult to be certain whether or not there was a review process for the translated script. I did find evidence that Netflix reserves the right to review such translated scripts before air.

Speaking of Netflix, I will include here what their translation requirements are, as I did find those. They, like Warner, also use Iyuno Media Group much of the time for dubbing (voiceover style dubbing in which they apparently like to leave the original language audible underneath, so that's slightly different from revoicing, but I'm working on an assumption that the general expectations are the same for both):(4)

"1. Translation Requirements

1.1 Main Dialogue

   All main dialogue in the source (original) language should be translated unless specifically noted.

   Due to timing limitations, some of the dialogue may be condensed/truncated as long as it retains all essential elements of the plot.

   Please refrain from dubbing redundant words such as character names and repetitions.

       Additionally, do not recreate laughs, hesitations, reaction noises, etc."

I'm looking at that bit: "Due to timing limitations, some of the dialogue may be condensed/truncated as long as it retains all essential elements of the plot."

So let's say just for argument's sake that this is pretty standard language provided to the dubbing studios. Netflix is a giant, so I'll proceed with that assumption given the lack of more concrete information:

Does it really change essential elements of the remaining plot to have Dean return Castiel's declaration of love? Forgetting about the outside, emotional ripple effect such a declaration was bound to set off in the viewing audience, no. The two characters have no further scenes together, nor does Dean go on in the next episode to immediately embark on a new relationship, or tell anyone that Cas said he was in love with him but he couldn't return it because he didn't feel the same. So technically, no rule was broken. And that is what it comes down to, if you're thinking like a lawyer reading a contract: specifics, not theoretical implications or consequences.

So, possibly what we have is something that was simple to add and easy to get away with/argue for: translated dialog that fit a dub better due to its length, and didn't actually change anything plot-wise (or at least, the argument for that could easily be made). This points to the painful crux of the matter: why would the Spanish version of Supernatural which aired in Latin America allow Dean Winchester to return Castiel's declaration of love with a "Me too, Cas"? Could it *really* be as insulting as the fact that "Yo a ti, Cas" would be a quicker, smoother dub than "No hagas esto, Cas"? ("Don't do this, Cas" in English.) Or did they see something they could get away with, and a reasonable argument to provide for it, so they went ahead and claimed a small LGBT+ victory?

Is someone, somewhere, getting in trouble for all this? Maybe. But could action be taken against them? That would look pretty bad, public-relations-wise, for the party expressing condemnation if that got out. Could Iyuno, or whatever other studio (again, I don't actually know which one handled the dub) theoretically feel a ripple effect from the fallout of this? Could they quietly suffer a drop in acquisitions/revenue for "reasons unclear"? Sure. That sort of thing happens all the time, so theoretically yeah.

Whatever the reasoning behind the decision to have Dean return Cas' declaration of love, surely they didn't have to do it. Surely they could have chosen some other phrase that fit. But they chose to do exactly what they did. I don't know what went down, in the end, or whether censorship was indeed involved, but I will certainly say that I think it was a brave and admirable choice that was made with the Spanish dub. It doesn't undo the "bury your gays" trope of course, but for some LGBT+ audience members it surely provides a sense of validation and maybe even lends a little hope for better representation--which is long, long overdue.

Thanks if you read this far. I hope that even though it’s not perfect it will be helpful in some way.

Sources

(1) https://www.indiewire.com/2020/02/subtitles-vs-dubbing-what-you-need-to-know-1202212800/amp

(2) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_CW

(3) https://www.iyunomg.com/

(4) https://partnerhelp.netflixstudios.com/hc/en-us/articles/115016062708-Dubbed-Audio-Style-Guide-VO-Style-Dubbing

(5) https://www.spgstudios.com/localization

[gayenerd]

1993 interview in Blunt magazine, which was apparently a skating and snowboarding magazine and explains all the questions about skating. 

Green Day Interview, by Damon Way and Mark Waters

Written November, 1993, published in Blunt Magazine, Spring, 1994. 

 (Editor's note, May 2000: Although a lot of this stands as a pretty remedial interview, stony and silly at times, there are also parts that are quite interesting and amusing when considering the context of the events that have happened since. This interview took place while the band was in San Diego on tour, and while they were in negotiations for their contract with Warner Brothers.)

Green Day is the kind of band that music listeners hold dear to their heart. A band that is so good, the lucky few who knew about them early on can't help but wonder "Why isn't this band blaring out of everyone's cars at full volume?" Yet while these people wonder this, they also take a  certain pride in knowing that they listened to that band first. And hell, once the band becomes popular, it takes some of the charm away. It's happened a hundred times.

Green Day will be the next band to be popular enough to scare away a few fans. Mixing melody and energy with easy-to-sing tunes, Green Day has hit the winning combination. Damon Way interviewed Green Day earlier this year to find out more about this trio. The band is from Berkeley, and Mike plays bass, Tre plays drums, and Billie Joe plays guitar and sings.

Blunt: So, where do we start?

Mike: Let's start with a how-you-doing-I-haven't-seen you-in-a-while?

Tre:Yeah, man.

B: How did your tour go?

Mike: Good. I stuck Eight Ball and Droors stickers all over the U.S. Kids would ask me if I skate and I'd tell 'em 'Yeah, I'm sponsored.'

Tre: I would say 'I don't skate, man, I shred.'

B: What do you guys like best about skateboarding?

Tre: I like that high energy that makes you feel like you're fourteen again, fucking up your toenails.

Mike: I like the idea of knocking down old ladies as they're walking out with their groceries.

Tre: Most skaters steal things.

 Mike: All skaters are theives.

Tre: Well, we could say most skaters steal things.

Billie: They have these big clothes so they can walk through a store and take anything they want and they'll never know. There is so much extra space that they can even frisk and not find anything.

Tre: I know a guy in Cleveland who does heroin and wears big clothes. He steals meat and sells it on the black market and gets money for heroin. I swear to God.

B: Do you guys like snowboarding?

All: Oh yeah, man we shred.

Tre: I'm the mogul master.

B: Once again, how did the tour go?

Mike: It was wonderful, we had a great time.

Tre: We're sorry Louisville. Who else are we sorry for?

 Mike: We're sorry we were sick all over the place. We had bronchitis and walking pneumonia.

Billie: We're sorry Salt Lake City.

B: What was your best show?

Billie: Soma in San Diego.

Tre: I don't know, but we played plenty of places where skating was against the law.

B: What did you think of Soma?

Tre: The owner has a nice car and a cellular phone.

B: Are you into meeting girls on tour?

Mike: Yeah, I met my girlfriend.

Tre: Yeah, I met your mom.

B: What do you guys do on an average day up in Berkeley?

Mike: Wake up and do bong hits.

Tre and Billie: Burn bowls.

B: Do you still listen to Metallica?

Tre: Yeah, man, I still do.

Mike: I'm from the same town, I have to.

B: What other bands do you like?

Tre and Billie: Tilt.

Mike: Tilt is a great band but the Potato Men suck.

B: What bands did you play with on tour?

Tre: A band called Judge Nothing. They helped us dookie the pot.

Billie: I dookied in a girls' pot.

Mike: I pissed in her ice trays.

Tre: I put eggs behind her couch and rubbed them in.

B: What do you think of the hardcore scene?

Mike: I'm not really into pornos myself.

B: Do you think punk is coming back?

Billie: The thing is that punk has always been here it's just that MTV has monopolized the whole thing, inspiring the mainstream to look a little more punk than usual. Like how Motley Crue kicked out Vince Neil because they wanted a singer who was more punk. And Lars Ulrich shaved his head and grew a goatee.

B: So what's up with getting signed to a major label?

Billie: We're doing it man. We've been talking to Ian MacKaye and we're going to do a little thing on Dischord. We have to change our lyrics though. Make them address political issues.

 B: What do you think a major will do to you guys?

Tre: Fuck us in the ass.

Billie: Probably ream us. I'm open for a rim job, though.

B: Do you think they'll try to clean you up and throw you on MTV?

Tre: I don 't think they'll clean us up because our next record is going to have swear words in every other song.

B: Do you think you will be promoted like Nirvana was?

Billie: I hope not man. It just seems like everyone was hoping to find the  next Nirvana. I want to be completely separate from the whole grunge thing. I don't even think the whole so-called grunge people are even into being called grunge. We played in Florida and this guy with a TV camera, who was totally dressed up in a suit and was from the Fox Network was asking us, "So what is grunge and what does it mean to you?" We were like, "This sucks."

B: What do you think of Rocket From The Crypt?

Tre: I saw a guy with his whole back done up with tattoos, so I guess they must be pretty good. They got paid a lot of money so they've got to be the next Nirvana, or someones going to be really screwed because it was something like $750,000.

B: What kind of equipment do you guys have?

Mike: I've got a bunch of broken down basses. I just got a Gibson Les Paul and the neck twisted on me five days later because of the humidity in Florida. I also have a Gibson G-3 that's broken. I have the one I was playing tonight that broke during the show.

Billie: I have one guitar (a Stratocaster) and it's the one that I use all the time and it's fucked up.

B: Have you ever broken any equipment on stage?

Tre: I just kicked my cymbal stand and broke my high hat.

Mike: On this tour I've broken four basses, four straps, and my speaker cabinet. I've also blown two heads before.

 B: What other stuff are you into besides the band?

Mike: Camping and living life to the fullest.

Billie: Legalization of marijuana or anything productive. People should  just do what the fuck they want.

B: Are you vegetarians?

All: Yes.

B: Any last words?

Billie: Live hard, die young.