#The Winchesters wank

[supernaturalnardog]

Is this enough times for everyone to admit that a spn prequel not including BOTH Sam and Dean just WON’T work and stop trying? The magic of Supernatural is Sam and Dean together and that’s just facts. Make a young Sam and Dean prequel or stop trying.

[wastemanjohn]

i'm not at all bothered about people disliking john because entirely valid tbh and someone else's opinion changes nothing for me. i just think the militant anti john brigade - that is, those that make up textually unsupported and entirely leftfield reasons to dislike him - are really missing out.

the thing is, we've got an absolute buffet of an interesting and irreparably fucked up character here. we could debate the absolute Horrors of john winchester and his a+ parenting for days on end literally from the two seconds of screentime he had. because he does suck! it's totally fair to say that canon john is selfish, neglectful and at best emotionally abusive. now i'm defo no apologist (see username) - but he's also the furthest thing from a cardboard shitty abusive dad. there is serious context for the things he does and the way he thinks.

john's life was hell man. his own dad, for all he knew, abandoned him. he went to war young and almost certainly came back with ptsd. these things alone don't exactly make life easy but then your wife burns to death on a ceiling and you're left a widower and a single dad to a baby and a pre schooler before you're even thirty? then discover that it couldn't even be a plain old housefire but no - there is actual Evil out there and you and your children are not safe and never will be?

the desire for revenge is understandable. the desire to do stupid and paradoxically dangerous things to protect your children are understandable. right, good or healthy? no. but understandable. and that's what makes a good sympathetic character.

basically i think a lot of negative readings of john exaggerate the badness of his intentions and ignore his humanity. it's also understandable that john is not a beacon of emotional regulation. it's also understandable that he cant always balance being emotionally and physically there for his kids with Fighting The Horrors. pour alcohol misuse onto this dumpster fire and you're not getting a perfect person, or a perfect parent. you're getting a broken human who was focused only on keeping his kids safe, alive, protected, and able to protect themselves. sure, he had tunnel vision about it. he did it very badly. he controlled sam as the youngest and parentified dean as the oldest. he made sam feel misunderstood and smothered. he made dean feel completely responsible for the welfare of his brother and dependent on john's praise and approval as his second in command.

john fucked his kids up IMMEASURABLY. he thought he was doing the right thing.

also - remember young john? remember how he's softly spoken and loves his cars and adores his girlfriend and respects his fucking elders and, to quote mary, "believes in happy endings"? remember the doting dad we see for like a minute in the pilot? is that not meant to show us that, had his life not taken the turn it did - he would likely have been an entirely different person? how is the tragedy of that not also completely DELICIOUS??

so why homophobic john? why john who beat dean senseless regularly? why john who gave no shits and wanted his boys to be miserable? why these embellishments that make him someone else, someone with nothing good inside of him, when what canon gives us is so much better?

come on guys. the tragic messy sad angry selfish HUMAN john we got in the show is an absolute treat. why are we making him an irredeemable, unfeeling and uncomplicated asshole who doesn't give a shit about his boys. ya'll saw him spending a good 50% of his screen time crying about how much he loved them right? and sam and dean KNEW he loved them. they also knew, or in dean's case came to realise, that he was a terrible father in many ways. real life is messy and nuanced. families are messy and nuanced. and imo spn got this so right.

[captain-sodapop]

I’m bored, so I am going to add to this spn class discourse with the following:

It is absolutely true that the Winchesters grew up poor. Nobody is disputing that. We don’t see a lot of them struggling with it in the show - throwaway lines about having to hustle to eat, occasionally sleeping in the Impala (though we do most often see them in motels before the bunker), etc. - but as someone pointed out, as a struggle, it’s not a primary focus.

I know people are pointing out that Kripke said that the brothers are blue collar and hunting is their “job”, but really, that’s not exactly correct if we want to be accurate here. For starters, they don’t get paid, so it’s not a job. It’s vigilante shit. They’re self-appointed (or Chuck-appointed, if you want to get into the whole, Chuck-was-writing-a-story-the-whole-time bit, which I’d say Is worthwhile to point out) supernatural law enforcers, essentially. But they’re not actual, paid law enforcement. So it’s not actually a job. Also, Kripke can be wrong. He was certainly wrong about male sexual assault being funny, so.

“Black collar” does seem to be a term, though it appears to be more colloquial in nature and doesn’t have as many references as white or blue collar. It seems to refer to “unreported employment”, or illegal work done without reporting to the government for tax payment. And Sam and Dean definitely aren’t paying taxes.

However, as we learn at the end of the show, Charlie gave them some hacked credit card that always works. It’s always good. They don’t have to hustle anymore, they can just use the card and they have unlimited cash. So they aren’t paying taxes, their pockets are bottomless…it’s a billionaire’s wet dream. Until their luck gets fucked up, they are doing just fine financially. More than fine. Someone did point out that having a blue collar job does not equal poor, same as a white collar job does not equal rich; it’s the nature of the work that gets the designation. Secretarial work is white collar work. That doesn’t mean the secretary is loaded. A lot goes into a person’s financial situation in relation to so many things. So, to the person who said they’re an economist and pronounced Sam and Dean as blue collar: it sounds a lot like you’re equating being blue collar with being poor, buddy.

So, I mean…if Sam and Dean aren’t getting paid, and they aren’t paying taxes, and they don’t report any earnings to the government because they don’t have any, and the job they have isn’t actual law enforcement, and the way they get money by the end of the show isn’t by hustling, card games, or odd jobs but instead by a hacked credit card with unlimited money…it really isn’t wholly accurate to call them blue collar. It’s obviously not some huge crime to call them blue collar offhandedly, but I do think the black collar moniker fits much better. They are making money through illicit means, and are performing a job that doesn’t exist as a paid position, and are doing it under the cloak of darkness because as we know from the show, when what they do is discovered by the general population, they get arrested…for crimes. Including credit card fraud, which is - you guessed it - generally considered a white collar crime.

Also, because this came up for some reason: sure, I bet Dean has eaten women out. I don’t see what that has to do with money, but I will say that eating a woman out doesn’t make someone a feminist, either. So. Yeah.

[overrated-sheep]

STOP mischaracterizing Dean please GOD TAKE OFF THE UWU GOGGLES FOR ONE SECOND!! He’s a big mean bastard with a savior complex, abandonment issues, mommy AND daddy AND brother issues, he’s sadistic, he’s arrogant, he’s violent, he’s cocky and all of that is wrapped up in a like really absurd display of machismo. AND I LOVE IT!! I FUCK WITH HOW WEIRD AND TOXIC AND OFF PUTTING DEAN WINCHESTER IS!

I LOVE AND ACCEPT HIM AS HE IS! I COULDNT FIX HIM!! BUT I WOULD NEVER WANT TO!!!!

[cascigarette]

imagine thinking sam "I felt like a freak my whole life amongst my family and my peers and society as a whole" winchester isn't queer coded

[flowersintheimpala69]

Just because I ship wincest dosent mean I commit real acts of incest omggggg pls stoppppp

[holyfreaks]

it's 2025 can we stop blaming "the writers" for dean being a creep. it's a feature not a bug first of all, second of all how can something done by multiple writers over the course of several seasons be "ooc"

he's a freak and I like him that way!

[sammygender]

dean literally tried to kill himself in an attempt to bring sam back to life…….when has dean ever been functional in response to sam’s death

[samwinchestermydude]

I think we as Sam fans should be more annoying and loud about the fact that his crossroad demons were men twice.

(This is me being pissed off about how people will say dean is of course bi due to some dumb shit like the siren, which was his brother, and “bi lighting” or something, and then turn around and say Sam is the straightest character. Like what.)

[nobodymitskigabriel]

Ik i just made a post about this but have dean fans really convinced themselves that dean cries himself to sleep at night because no one believes he can read? Dean can make fun sam all he wants but the moment sam raises his eyebrows at dean it's because he's an elitist who thinks dean has never opened a book before? They are siblings who tease each other. Even his little "hey, i read"s are in jest because he knows he's being a damn hypocrite.

[lilacpaperbird]

sometimes I see a post that reminds me that, for a sizable part of the spn fandom, sam is just a boring guy whose only role is to roll his eyes at dean and cas's quirky gay shenanigans. I don't even hate these people I'm just baffled by their existence

[woundlingus]

Saying Dean was a bad parent to Sam shouldn’t be such an “anti” take it’s one I hold very close as a deangirl. Dean was just a baby himself left in charge of a kid and his fathers emotional baggage, and he was rash and lashed out at Sam because he was a little boy and what’s a little boy supposed to do in these situations? They were latchkey kids, alone in strange towns told they’re forbidden to leave their room for weeks on end sometimes or monsters would get them, they were being abused and isolated, their only outlet is each other. This is objectively the best lens to see him through as a deangirl rather than pretending he was perfect and Sam was selfish because it puts everything to reason instead of grappling for falsehoods that diminish what’s actually sad about what’s happening? Why are we not taking in the full scope of Dean’s trauma, the eight year old, and how sad it is in favour of making a blander version of it that’s not even right just to shit on Sam, the four year old.

[blacknidstang]

Man i love bitchy sam but i so don't understand how people would think he'd be the same person after eons of being tortured in hell and every god awful thing he went through. Even after s4 sam was never the same. Yes i think the writing could go better in late seasons in many ways but what do you expect even. Plus sam DOES has the sass even in late season, jared still channels it but also like, he is fucked up kicked down and tortured and traumaized man and how do you want him to stay the same cocky bold and bitchy twink he used to be when he was still a baby!???

[flowersintheimpala69]

“wait so you support incest??” well obviously and because I like Hannibal too I support cannibalism and murder and since I like the saw franchise I endorse torture and because I like the xmen I believe I possess superpowers cuz obviously fiction = reality

Like Leave me aloneeee my god

[holyfreaks]

"there's no subtext for wincest!!!!"

I'm begging you to watch the show with your eyes open and research emotional incest

[sammygender]

hilarious phenomenon in this fandom where people will genuinely switch sam and cas in their heads despite proclaiming to like both. ‘i love sam but he’s easily corrupted by power-’ that’s cas. ‘isn’t it crazy how dean falls into suicidal despair and can’t function whenever cas dies’ that’s sam. just because they’re two beautiful queens doesn’t mean we can confuse them……..