#TMBD fandom athiktomisia

[rjalker]

I have been informed I have a "pattern of behavior" in The Murderbot Diaries fandom, of *checks notes* let's see...

Calling out exorsexism

Calling out racism

Calling out aroacemisia

Calling out ableism

Politely correcting misgendering

[ID: A screenshot from a video clip of a person frowning at the camera, saying, "Yeah, I sure hope it does!". End ID.]

[murderbotwritingprompts]

Yes, yes, you love Murderbot. You think Murderbot is so funny and relatable. You'd die for Murderbot. We know.

But do you actually use Murderbot's it/its pronouns? Do you actually respect the fact that it's an everything-repulsed aroace and is solitaremit touch-averse, and the fact that it represents real people who are these things?

Or do you just "love" the "relatable" version of Murderbot that exists in your head, where you've cut out and replaced everything that makes it who it is as a character with things you can personally relate to, even though the whole theme of the series is that you need to respect people even when you can't relate to them?

Do you think "representation matters" only when you're the one being represented?

Do you think it magically becomes okay to erase canon Queer identities and disabilities as long as you're not the one being represented?

Do you actually love the character of Murderbot, who is explicitly everything-repulsed aroace, nonbinary and uses it/its pronouns exclusively, and is soltaremit touch-averse?

Or do you just love the OC you've slapped its name onto that exists in your head?

[rjalker]

[ID: The "is this a pigeon" meme, edited so "The Murderbot Diaries fandom" is pointing at: "A character whose traits are stigmatized in our society, who is nevertheless treated with respect and dignity, offering the first postivie representation many people have ever seen of themselves", And asking, "Is this a blank slate for me to erase while I silence the very real people it represents?" End ID.]

So would you all be just as perfectly content to live and let live if I rewrote Mensah to be 100% straight and monogamous and whitewashed her? Would you all be perfectly fine if I changed all the female characters and characters of color to cis straight white men? Would you all be fine if I wrote a fic where Murderbot is sent to literal ABA and it's portrayed as a positive things?

Would you say those things are also innocently just "up to interpretation"?

[rjalker]

This is not my first rodeo, and no, you cannot shut me up. Your respectability politics will not fucking work on me :)

[ID: The meme of a person in the desert crawling away from the safest path towards a more difficult one. The person has been edited to have sharp teeth and an evil smile. The smaller sign says, "1/4" mile," to the right, and reads: "Leave the bigoted fandom and abandon others to suffer from it alone".

The larger sign says, "100 miles", to the left, and reads: "Become the most insufferably obnoxious thorn in the side of bigots by refusing to shut up and refusing to stop calling out their bigotry no matter how hard they try to pretend they aren't doing anything wrong, so that the rest of the oppressed people will know that at least one person is willing to stand up for them". End ID.]

I will not stop calling out racism, exorsexism, transmisia, ableism, amisia, aroacemisia, or any other kind of bigotry in any fandom I fucking find, no matter how much you all hate me for it. I fucking hope bigots hate me. I hope I make your fandom experience even just a fraction of how miserable it your bigoted behavior makes oppressed people feel.

I have been called slurs for this, I've been sent death threats, I've been sexually harassed for calling out this shit. And guess what, motherfuckers? I'm not going to stop.

You want me to stop calling out the bigotry in this fandom?

Then do your part to make it less bigoted.

[rjalker]

no, actually you are not allowed to hide my fucking reblog telling you you're being a bigot. I'm not letting you people pretend you don't know you're being bigots.

Murdernot said:

One thing I love about Murderbot is that it is such a delightfully complex character that it can be so relatable to so many different people.

Like, I recently recommended the series to two friends who are very different. One I think will like it because of the aro/ace/agender-ness and the more existential "what defines a person" aspects of it. The other I think will like it for the exploration of trauma and the horrors of capitalism and the sense of humor.

Like any good story, it has some very specific things that only some people might relate to, but also some more general, more universal aspects, and we all like it for some combination of it.

And I think even more so since Murderbot is such an unreliable narrator when it comes to its own internal experience. We have to read between the lines to see how it really feels, and everyone reads between the lines slightly differently based on our own experiences and viewpoints.

And like, because Murderbot is on a character journey where it is discovering itself, we all interpret the steps on the journey differently. Like, a lot of it is Murderbot figuring out its boundaries. There are some parts where it pushes out of its comfort zone and widens its boundaries (being out of armor/being observed, which doesn't seem to bother it nearly as much in later books), and other parts where it asserts its boundaries (like with hugs). Both of those things are important for its character growth.

And someone who is trying to assert their own boundaries might latch onto the importance of Murderbot doing the same and enjoy discussions/fanart/fanfic of people respecting those boundaries. But someone who is trying to break out of a defensive, potentially maladaptive comfort zone might really appreciate the way that Murderbot becomes more comfortable with certain things over time and might enjoy discussions/fanart/fanfiction of it learning to enjoy some things it has expressed reflexive distaste for. Both are wonderful ways of interacting with the work.

The important thing for me is that Murderbot is a (beautifully written and complex) fictional character who means different things to different people. We all connect to Murderbot slightly differently and I think that's beautiful.

My response! Because you people do not get to fucking pretend you care about aroace and touch averse people and then silence us at every turn!

The problem is there are hundreds of stories where characters are touch averse and learn to enjoy being touched because they secretly enjoy it and didn't want to admit it to themselves.

Aside from The Murderbot Diaries, there are zero stories of characters who are touch averse and do not feel any desire for touch, and actually have these boundaries respected.

I don't think people who are not solitaremit understand how absurdly ludicrously rare it is that Murderbot has its boundaries with touch respected with this series.

It is in fact ableism for people to look at this character who is touch averse and has no desire for touch, whose boundaries are always respected, and to then insist that that has to change. That it has to open up and remove its boundaries and admit it secretly enjoys being touched.

We aren't talking about vague "Be more comfortable with yourself" things here. We are talking about touch aversion. We are talking about aroace.

Do I need to explain why erasing the fact that a character is aroace and repulsed by relationships is bigoted? Do I need to explain why erasing a character who's solitaremit and has that respected is bigoted?

Apparently I do, since everyone in this fandom keeps insisting on watering these issues down into just "differences in interpretation" and "learning to be more comfortable"

Would you be okay with people writing about Murderbot learning to accept and be normal about eye contact?

Do I have to explain that being touch averse is something adults try to beat out of autistic kids?

If the issues at hand here were anything but aroaceness and touch aversion, if they were more "serious" things being erased, like being gay or if people were removing all of Murderbot's other autistic traits, would you still say they're just a minor, beautiful different in opinion?

Aroace people who are repulsed by all forms of relationships have no representation. We are demonized even in our own communities, let alone the rest of society.

Solitaremit people aren't even given shelter in the rest of the touch averse community.

Erasing the fact that Murderbot is aroace and repulsed by relationships of all kinds is bigotry. Erasing the fact that Murderbot does not enjoy touch or have any desire for it is bigotry.

Listen to aroace people when we tell you something is bigoted. Listen to touch averse people when we tell you something is bigoted.

Just because it doesn't impact you personally does not mean it's not a problem and that people literally opppressed by it should just be fine with it and let everyone continue to erase our very existance.

These books are actually doing everything right in respecting aroace people and solitaremit people.

Why is it too much to expect the fandom, who claims to love this character, to do the same?

Do you actually care about people when their experiences are not the same as yours, or do you just see our existence as internet discourse that begins and ends on tumblr.com?

If you actually give a shit about aroace people and touch averse people, then stop making posts like this that coddle those who erase us. Actually pick a side instead of trying to play the middle.

This is literal real bigotry we are talking about here. You cannot create representation by taking it away from other people.

The whole main theme of this series is that you need to respect people even when they're different from you. Why is that so hard for people who claim to love this series to accept?

Why is it okay to erase people's sexualities when it's about aroace people?

Why is it okay to overstep and overwrite people's boundaries when it's about touch averse people?

Stop fucking pretending you care about nonpartnering aroace people and solitaremit touch averse people when you fucking hide our reblogs on your post. Either fucking actually support us and stand up against bigotry or stop pretending you care.

A character that is explicitly aroace and sex repulsed, touch repulsed, platonic repulsed, and nonpartnering and is nonbinary and uses it/its pronouns and touch averse and has no desire for touch at all is not a blank slate for you to erase. Murderbot represents real living breathing people. When you erase everything that makes Murderbot who it is, you are being a bigot to the real people it represents.

[Plain text: "A character that is explicitly aroace and sex repulsed, touch repulsed, platonic repulsed, and nonpartnering and is nonbinary and uses it/its pronouns and touch averse and has no desire for touch at all is not a blank slate for you to erase. Murderbot represents real living breathing people. When you erase everything that makes Murderbot who it is, you are being a bigot to the real people it represents.". End Plain text.]

[rjalker]

It's all "listen to oppressed people when they tell you something you're doing is bigoted" until it's time to listen to people who use it/its pronouns, are nonpartnering aroace, and solitaremit touch averse.

[rjalker]

The Murderbot Diaries: And then Murderbot slowly learns over the course of the series to set its boundaries and make its boundaries in regards to touch known. Its friends respect its boundaries once they learn what they are and never shame it or force it to change or adapt to suit them. The one time anyone ever asks it to compromise its boundaries, she immediately regrets doing so, it is portrayed as a bad thing, and both characters move forward with deeper understanding and respect for eachother. The message here is that respecting people's boundaries is always important even if they're not boundaries you understand or agree with. The message here is that setting boundaries is healthy and normal and you should do it for your own mental well-being.

Ableists in the fandom: actually it should get rid of its boundaries. The only way for it to heal is for it to remove all of the boundaries that make it inconveneint for shipping or unpalatable for people like me, someone who's normal and likes being touched just like normal people all do. Only people who have something wrong with them that needs fixed don't want to be touched and set boundaries about touch. Murderbot should be normal like me!!!

[rjalker]

Murderbot in book 4: *lets a traumatized person (Mensah) hug it so she doesn't literally have a mental breakdown in the middle of being rescued, holds said traumatized person's hand as part of a disguise to make sure they both don't immediately get recaptured and killed*

Mensah in her short story, book 4.5: *states explicitly that she knows Murderbot does not want to be touched, and knows it's wrong of her to literally and metaphorically lean on someone who doesn't want to be touched, refuses to hug Murderbot again because she knows it doesn't like it, even though it's offering to let her anyways to help her, makes it clear that she needs to respect Murderbot even when it's willing to compromise on its boundaries because it should not be forced to compromise on its boundaries*

Murderbot in book 5: *literally makes it part of its work contracts that no one is allowed to hug it. Literally makes sure to tell humans who are traumatized and in distress that if they need someone to hug it will go find someone for them to hug.*

Athiktomisics who think everyone has to enjoy and crave touch and touch averse people just need to learn to heal and get over themselves: actually it secretly enjoys being touched. You need to re-read these books.

you want literal quotes from the book you gotta pay me $20 so I can buy a cane. I'm done wasting my time finding passages from the books for proof only for everyone to go "I don't know, I suddenly can't read".

[rjalker]

Fandoms will see a cannonically, explicitly Queer character who represents multiple of the most stigmatized groups within the Queer community and will go "okay, but what if I erase all of these traits I dislike to make ~them~ more palatable for me?"

And then act shocked when the minorities who are being purposefully erased are angry about this.

Fandom will see a characters who is canonically nonbinary, uses it/its pronouns, is aroace and viscerally disgusted by the thought of being in any kind of relationship, and hates being touched, and go

"Oooh! But ~they~ would be better if ~they~ didn't use those disgusting pronouns! Nonbinary people all use they/them! If you use it/its pronouns you're disgusting. This character uses they/them pronouns now because they're real pronouns!!!! "Ooh and don't you think ~they'd~ be so much better if ~they~ were horny for this brown man I am whitewashing for the sake of shipping with this aroace character, who I am also whitewashing for the sake of shipping.

"Oooooooooh but noo you know what'd be even better? O: if this character was a binary trans woman!!! Or a binary trans man!!!!! Because nonbinary people are gross and not real anyways :)

"Oh this blatantly autistic character explicitly says it hates being touched and only touches people in life or death situations when the literal only other option is letting them die?

"Well silly billy, don't you know that if you don't want to be touched there's something deeply, deeply wrong with you that you need to fix? I'm not being ableist by saying this, though! Really, when you think about it, you're the one who's ableist because you don't want this character's touch aversion to be healed by the power of friendship/sex/romance!!!!"

Fandom will literally see a character whose traits are demonized by all of society and go "okay but hear me out what if I demonize these Queer and disabled traits and remove everything that makes this character who it is so that it's less repulsive to me as someone whose identities are more socially accepted?"

And then insist that they're totally progressive and Queer friendly and welcoming to minorities and such a fun, safe, great fandom to hang out in.

[rjalker]

Reposting for 2024. Originally made in 2023. But bigots keep being bigots.

Allos in this year, 2024, still don’t see aspec orientations as genuine orientations. They see it as an empty space where the orientation is inexplicably missing, so they see a character who is cannonically aroace and viscerally repulsed by all forms of relationships and touch, and think that, because this is a “lack of orientation” rather than an orientation directed at, explicitly, no one, they think it’s perfectly fine and not bigoted at all for them to shove their orientations onto the explicitly Queer character, erasing the aroace representation in favor of turning it into another Cis Gay Man who uses he/him…even though the character is literally nonbinary, and uses it/its pronouns.

Because they also see being nonbinary as a “fill in the missing parts” puzzle. They think the character describing its gender as “not applicable” and “indeterminate” means that, really, it’s a guy! it’s a man! Because it’s funny and relatable and only Men™ are relatable! Only Male Characters™ can be  funny and well-written!

In 2024!

Fully grown adults are fucking pulling this shit in 2024 and think they’re the perfect Queer Allies™, and like this isn't the world's most basic misogyny to top off the exorsexism and transmisia. You people are so proud to admit that you think women can't be funny. And think nothing of it. Do you have any idea how bad you look doing this shit, even if you ignore the fact that you're shitting on nonbinary people?

You people don’t see aroace or nonbinary people as actually existing, and actually having meaningful identities. You think we’re walking fucking ad-libs and you can fill in the “blanks” with whatever’s most palatable to your tastes. 

And that means misgendering the canonnically nonbinary character who uses it/its pronouns, erasing literally every single aspect of its identity that gets in the way of shipping it (removing its aceness, its aroness, or just straight up pretending it’s not aroace to begin with, and erasing its solitaremit touch averseion and disgust towards sex and intimacy of any kind), and then pretending their actions are completely harmless when they’re called out for it.

Because according to them, it’s not bigotry if the canon Queer identities they’re erasing are the ones they think don’t exist in the first place. Being aroace isn��t an orientation for them, it just means you’re broken and need to be fixed. Being nonbinary and using it/its with them isn’t a real gender identity and presentation, it means they’re something wrong with you and you need to be fixed. Being touch averse isn’t a real disability, it just means there’s something wrong with you, and you need to be fixed.

They don’t fucking see Murderbot as representation for real Queer disabled trans people. They see it as something broken that needs to be fixed, by taking away everything that makes it who it is, so that they can fill in all the now gaping wounds with their own much less stigmatized identities instead.

Even though the literal entire theme of The Murderbot Diaries is that you should treat people with respect even if you don’t understand their experiences.

[rjalker]

*slaps the roof of The Murderbot Diaries fandom*

[ID: The meme drawing of two people standing in front of a car, with a car salesman in a suit gesturing to the car, now edited to be saying, "This fandom can fit so many aroace-hating aroace people in it!". End ID.]

"partnering aroace people exist!"

yeah, and why do you think that gives you the right to erase nonpartnering aroace people? It's because amatnormativity still has a stranglehold on you and you're perfectly fine with that as long as you get to throw nonpartnering people under the bus to get the allos to accept you.

Being a partnering aroace does not give you the right to shit on and erase nonpartnering aroace people, which is what you are doing when you defend allos erasing Murderbot's explicitly unattracted Queerness.

Stop licking amatanormativity's boot and show some fucking solidarity with nonpartnering aroace people, or shut the absolute fuck up.

[rjalker]

From now on when I talk about the rampant solitaremisia in The Murderbot Diaries fandom I'm not calling it touch aversion anymore. I'm not calling Murderbot touch averse. Because that makes gregariable touch averse people think that they now have a free card to defend the disgusting levels of athiktomisia and specifically solitaremisia that runs wild in this fandom everywhere you look.

Murderbot is solitaremit. It does not want to be touched. It does not crave touch on any level. It does not seek out touch. It is not gregariable. It does not get touch starved.

You people just fucking hate solitaremits and think we're broken and need fixing through the power of love, or friendship, or sex.

You can either follow the links and learn what the words mean or shut up. I am done with gregariable people defending the inherent solitaremisia in erasing a cannonically solitaremit character who's actually treated seriously and with respect 100% of the time instead of being reduced to a joke about how it's sooooo funny to assault touch averse people because we don't really know what we want.

[rjalker]

the number of gregariable touch averse people who think that they get to hand wave away the rampant solitaremisia in The Murderbot Diaries fandom because they're touch averse is hilarious. Bitch. You are not solitaremit. Murderbot cannonically, explicitly, is. Being touch averse and gregariable does not mean you get to erase solitaremit people when Murderbot is literally the only fucking representation I have ever fucking seen.

How are all of you people so desperate to shit on disabled people that the author shows you a very clear progression of Murderbot learning that it's okay to set boundaries, so it immediately starts putting "you're not allowed to touch me" in its contracts as soon as it can, and this is respected by all characters with morals, but you all just hate disabled people so much that you want to pretend it actually enjoyed being touched?

You literally will not let solitaremit people have this one fucking thing, because you're all just too fucking ableist and aroacemisic to care about other marginalized people.

If you erase a character's cannon Queer and disabled traits/identities, you are being a fucking bigot. You are perpetuating bigotry. You all fucking know this, you just think it's okay as long as it's happening to cannonically aroace and solitaremit characters.

[rjalker]

Like, nonbinary autistic aroace with complex relationship with touch here? Go be a semi-an/ti somewhere else.

"complex relationship with touch" is a weird way of saying "I hate touch averse people who do not ever want to be touched and I especially hate the ones who call out athiktomisia that portrays touch averse people as being broken and in need of fixing"

I'm literally aroace but oh my fucking gods, stop trying to police fandom.

Yep, that tracks!

Damn, how many aroacemisic aroace people can fit in this fandom anyways?!?

[rjalker]

Martha Wells: I'm going to show an exceedingly simple and straightforward progression of Murderbot learning that it's allowed to set boundaries for its own wellbeing, so it'll start off thinking it doesn't have a real choice (because it's never been given a choice before now), to firmly setting its boundaries and enforcing them. After it lets someone hug it when they're upset, it explicitly goes out of its way to prevent that from happening again. Murderbot does not enjoy touch, nor does it seek it out or crave it in any way. And this is okay, and people who have morals will respect its boundaries. Because you should treat people with respect even if they're different from you and you can't relate.

The solitaremisic fandom: omg...Murderbot craves touch...it's so touch starved...it's just shy and self-hating and needs to learn to love itself enough to ask for hugs :)))) if you hate being touched you're broken and need to be fixed through the power of love/friendship/romance/sex!!!!!!!!!!1

Book 5, (book 6 chronologically because Martha Wells decided to make things difficult)

but people want to pretend like Murderbot's actually getting more comfortable with letting people touch it, rather than getting more comfortable setting firm boundaries. Because they don't like the message the author is beating them over the head with.

Arada rubbed her eyes and her mouth pulled in at one side. “Are you trying to make me feel better?”

“No.” I actually wasn’t. I lie to humans a lot, but not to Arada, not about this. “I wouldn’t try to make you feel better. You know what I’m like.”

She made a snorting noise, an involuntary expression of amusement. “I do know what you’re like.”

Her expression had turned all melty and sentimental. “No hugging,” I warned her. It was in our contract. “Do you need emotional support? Do you want me to call someone?”

“I’m fine.” She smiled.

This is character development for everyone involved (Arada took the longest to figure out Murderbot didn't want to be touched because she wasn't picking up on its nonverbal cues the way Mensah did, Murderbot has been learning to TELL people it doesn't want to be touched rather than just bearing it in silence), but because solitaremisics don't like the fact that Murderbot is reaffirming and strengthening its boundaries instead of weakening and compromising on them, they pretend like this isn't what's actually happening.

Even though it's a very clear linear progression from book 1 to this point that is not at all difficult to understand as long as you aren't already determined to pretend it's not happening.

[rjalker]

came up with a great metaphor for people who are not touch averse to understand why their idea that touch aversion can be "fixed" or "cured" through the power of friendship/love/sex/whatever is absolute ableist bullshit:

Would you be willing to purposefully burn your hand on a hot stove just because you really like the stove and think it's awesome?

No?

Then why do you think touch-averse people should be willing to touch someone just because we like them?

Unless there is a literal medical emergency and people will get hurt or die otherwise, I will not willingly touch anyone, whether they be family, friends, or random strangers.

I wouldn't willingly burn my hand on a hot stove just because I like the stove, for the same reason I won't willingly hold hands with or accept a hug from someone, even if I like them: I don't enjoy being in physical distress when I can avoid it.

Touch aversion is not just "having trust issues". It's not something that you should treat as something that can or should be "fixed" with the power of friendship or love or sex or whatever you think rules the world.

Just because I think the stove is awesome and works great doesn't mean I want to burn my hand on it.

Just because I think someone's awesome and a great friend doesn't mean I want to touch them or let them touch me.

"Touch averse" does not equal "has trust issues".

Insisting that everyone who is touch averse just needs to open up and stop being shy and admit they're secretly touch starved and want to be touched is ableist as hell, and shows a fundamental lack of understanding of why so many people are touch averse.

And if you spent any time actually listening to us instead of treating us like angsty writing prompts that only exist in fiction, you'd actually understand that by now.