#Athiktomisia

[rjalker]

[ID: White impact font against a black background that reads in all caps, "If minorities criticizing fandom bigotry ruins your fun more than the bigotry itself, you're a bigot, and you should feel bad!". End ID.]

[rjalker]

yeah, no, as someone who's touch averse, we do not need more stories where touch averse people have to give up their boundaries for the sake of other people's happiness, where our boundaries are treated like a burden that does nothing but cause other people harm.

That's literally what every single facet of society already shoves down our throats, we really do not need more stories like this :[

Prompt idea: touch repulsed (unless iniciated themselves) aroace and touch starved aroace try and navegate a platonic relationship in a middleground

.

[murderbotwritingprompts]

Yes, yes, you love Murderbot. You think Murderbot is so funny and relatable. You'd die for Murderbot. We know.

But do you actually use Murderbot's it/its pronouns? Do you actually respect the fact that it's an everything-repulsed aroace and is solitaremit touch-averse, and the fact that it represents real people who are these things?

Or do you just "love" the "relatable" version of Murderbot that exists in your head, where you've cut out and replaced everything that makes it who it is as a character with things you can personally relate to, even though the whole theme of the series is that you need to respect people even when you can't relate to them?

Do you think "representation matters" only when you're the one being represented?

Do you think it magically becomes okay to erase canon Queer identities and disabilities as long as you're not the one being represented?

Do you actually love the character of Murderbot, who is explicitly everything-repulsed aroace, nonbinary and uses it/its pronouns exclusively, and is soltaremit touch-averse?

Or do you just love the OC you've slapped its name onto that exists in your head?

[rjalker]

Here's an apparently radical concept for people to get through their heads:

If you know someone doesn't like being touched, for any reason, and you want to respect their boundaries? You want to actually show them you respect them and care about them?

Don't even ask if you can touch them. Literally just do not ever try to touch them or even ask them to let you touch them. Literally just leave them alone.

[rjalker]

Fandoms will see a cannonically, explicitly Queer character who represents multiple of the most stigmatized groups within the Queer community and will go "okay, but what if I erase all of these traits I dislike to make ~them~ more palatable for me?"

And then act shocked when the minorities who are being purposefully erased are angry about this.

Fandom will see a characters who is canonically nonbinary, uses it/its pronouns, is aroace and viscerally disgusted by the thought of being in any kind of relationship, and hates being touched, and go

"Oooh! But ~they~ would be better if ~they~ didn't use those disgusting pronouns! Nonbinary people all use they/them! If you use it/its pronouns you're disgusting. This character uses they/them pronouns now because they're real pronouns!!!! "Ooh and don't you think ~they'd~ be so much better if ~they~ were horny for this brown man I am whitewashing for the sake of shipping with this aroace character, who I am also whitewashing for the sake of shipping.

"Oooooooooh but noo you know what'd be even better? O: if this character was a binary trans woman!!! Or a binary trans man!!!!! Because nonbinary people are gross and not real anyways :)

"Oh this blatantly autistic character explicitly says it hates being touched and only touches people in life or death situations when the literal only other option is letting them die?

"Well silly billy, don't you know that if you don't want to be touched there's something deeply, deeply wrong with you that you need to fix? I'm not being ableist by saying this, though! Really, when you think about it, you're the one who's ableist because you don't want this character's touch aversion to be healed by the power of friendship/sex/romance!!!!"

Fandom will literally see a character whose traits are demonized by all of society and go "okay but hear me out what if I demonize these Queer and disabled traits and remove everything that makes this character who it is so that it's less repulsive to me as someone whose identities are more socially accepted?"

And then insist that they're totally progressive and Queer friendly and welcoming to minorities and such a fun, safe, great fandom to hang out in.

[rjalker]

The problem is there are hundreds of stories where characters are touch averse and learn to enjoy being touched because they secretly enjoy it and didn't want to admit it to themselves.

Aside from The Murderbot Diaries, there are zero stories of characters who are touch averse and do not feel any desire for touch, and actually have these boundaries respected.

I don't think people who are not solitaremit understand how absurdly ludicrously rare it is that Murderbot has its boundaries with touch respected with this series.

It is in fact ableism for people to look at this character who is touch averse and has no desire for touch, whose boundaries are always respected, and to then insist that that has to change. That it has to open up and remove its boundaries and admit it secretly enjoys being touched.

We aren't talking about vague "Be more comfortable with yourself" things here. We are talking about touch aversion. We are talking about aroace.

Do I need to explain why erasing the fact that a character is aroace and repulsed by relationships is bigoted? Do I need to explain why erasing a character who's solitaremit and has that respected is bigoted?

Apparently I do, since everyone in this fandom keeps insisting on watering these issues down into just "differences in interpretation" and "learning to be more comfortable"

Would you be okay with people writing about Murderbot learning to accept and be normal about eye contact?

Do I have to explain that being touch averse is something adults try to beat out of autistic kids?

If the issues at hand here were anything but aroaceness and touch aversion, if they were more "serious" things being erased, like being gay or if people were removing all of Murderbot's other autistic traits, would you still say they're just a minor, beautiful different in opinion?

Aroace people who are repulsed by all forms of relationships have no representation. We are demonized even in our own communities, let alone the rest of society.

Solitaremit people aren't even given shelter in the rest of the touch averse community.

Erasing the fact that Murderbot is aroace and repulsed by relationships of all kinds is bigotry. Erasing the fact that Murderbot does not enjoy touch or have any desire for it is bigotry.

Listen to aroace people when we tell you something is bigoted. Listen to touch averse people when we tell you something is bigoted.

Just because it doesn't impact you personally does not mean it's not a problem and that people literally opppressed by it should just be fine with it and let everyone continue to erase our very existance.

These books are actually doing everything right in respecting aroace people and solitaremit people.

Why is it too much to expect the fandom, who claims to love this character, to do the same?

Do you actually care about people when their experiences are not the same as yours, or do you just see our existence as internet discourse that begins and ends on tumblr.com?

If you actually give a shit about aroace people and touch averse people, then stop making posts like this that coddle those who erase us. Actually pick a side instead of trying to play the middle.

This is literal real bigotry we are talking about here. You cannot create representation by taking it away from other people.

The whole main theme of this series is that you need to respect people even when they're different from you. Why is that so hard for people who claim to love this series to accept?

Why is it okay to erase people's sexualities when it's about aroace people?

Why is it okay to overstep and overwrite people's boundaries when it's about touch averse people?

One thing I love about Murderbot is that it is such a delightfully complex character that it can be so relatable to so many different people.

Like, I recently recommended the series to two friends who are very different. One I think will like it because of the aro/ace/agender-ness and the more existential "what defines a person" aspects of it. The other I think will like it for the exploration of trauma and the horrors of capitalism and the sense of humor.

Like any good story, it has some very specific things that only some people might relate to, but also some more general, more universal aspects, and we all like it for some combination of it.

And I think even more so since Murderbot is such an unreliable narrator when it comes to its own internal experience. We have to read between the lines to see how it really feels, and everyone reads between the lines slightly differently based on our own experiences and viewpoints.

And like, because Murderbot is on a character journey where it is discovering itself, we all interpret the steps on the journey differently. Like, a lot of it is Murderbot figuring out its boundaries. There are some parts where it pushes out of its comfort zone and widens its boundaries (being out of armor/being observed, which doesn't seem to bother it nearly as much in later books), and other parts where it asserts its boundaries (like with hugs). Both of those things are important for its character growth.

And someone who is trying to assert their own boundaries might latch onto the importance of Murderbot doing the same and enjoy discussions/fanart/fanfic of people respecting those boundaries. But someone who is trying to break out of a defensive, potentially maladaptive comfort zone might really appreciate the way that Murderbot becomes more comfortable with certain things over time and might enjoy discussions/fanart/fanfiction of it learning to enjoy some things it has expressed reflexive distaste for. Both are wonderful ways of interacting with the work.

The important thing for me is that Murderbot is a (beautifully written and complex) fictional character who means different things to different people. We all connect to Murderbot slightly differently and I think that's beautiful.

[rjalker]

PSA since I haven't mentioned it in a while:

"Athiktomisia" is a term for ableism specifically against touch averse people, because just calling it general "ableism" is too broad and just gives people excuses to ignore you.

It comes from the greek word that means pretty much "untouchable".

Solitaremit / solitaremity refer to a touch averse person who does not get touch starved and does not crave touch in any way.

Solitaremisia is athiktomisia specifically against touch averse people who do not want any kind of touch ever.

because even within the touch averse community there's still the idea that you must crave touch even if you don't enjoy it, or else there's something horribly inhumanely wrong with you -.-

@solitaremit is a sideblog I created to try and archive info about it.

[rjalker]

The first thing that will always pop into my head when I think of touch averse characters who are treated like a joke will always be the Twelfth Doctor, because by the time I saw that bullshit I'd finally fucking figured out how to articulate why it was so wrong.

Twelve constantly tells people he doesn't like hugs, and then Clara tells him to shut up and hugs him without his consent. And it's meant to be funny. We're supposed to laugh at his misery.

And there are countless other examples of this athiktomisic trope, but I saw them all before I'd figured out how to describe the specific form of bigotry going on here.

This shitty trope usually comes in the form of forcing hugs on characters who say they don't like or want hugs, because according to gregariable people, everyone likes hugs! It's impossible not to want people to hug you!

This also happens in Kipo, with Wolf not liking hugs, but everyone forcing them on her anyways until she begrudgingly admits she enjoys them. That's usually how this trope ends. With the victim admitting that they do actually enjoy the touch that is being forced on them.

Because the whole point of this trope is to tell people that it's okay to violate people's consent, as long as you think you know better than they do what they really want. You can hug a person, no matter how many times they say no, as long as you think the secretly enjoy it.

As long as you claim the other person secretly enjoys it, you can do anything you want to them.

I don't fucking think I need to explain to people how this feeds directly into rape culture.

[rjalker]

"it's possible to ship aroace characters who explicitly do not want any kind of relationship of any kind, including queerplatonic, who hate sex and hate romance and hate being touched! It's possible to ship these characters and still be respectful--"

No, it quite fucking literally is not!

If you ship this character sexually, you're erasing its asexuality!

If you ship it romantically, you're erasing its aromanticism!

If you ship it queerplatonically, you're erasing its nonplatonicity!

If you ship it sensually, you're erasing its touch aversion!

There is literally no fucking way to ship a character like Murderbot who explicitly does not want to be in any kind of relationship and hates being touched without being a bigot!

Murderbot represents real living people that you are erasing and speaking over!

You would all be flipping your shit if Murderbot were any other Queer identity besides nonbinary and aroace and people were erasing that, but because it's aroace and nonbinary and uses the Icky™ Gross™ pronouns (that you think only fictional characters use) you think that means erasing this single shred of respectful representation is magically okay now.

Literally all you have to do to not be a bigot is not be horny and weird about one (1) fictional character that canonically explicitly would hate the shit you're all writing and drawing about it.

But no, you'd all rather be bigots and erase everything that makes Murderbot who it is because it's not palatable and Relatable™ enough for you. You people are so fucking weak. You literally cannot stand to see one (1) fictional character that's different from you without immediately leaping to erase every thing about it that lets it represent real marginalized people.

[rjalker]

If I seem like I'm "beating over the head with 'respect touch aversion or you are ableist'" it's because I am, in fact, touch-averse rather than touch-neutral, and it's not my responsibility to metaphorically hold people's hands and tell them what they should do instead, when they're going out of their way to disrespect people like me.

Anyone who's read these books should already know what the alternatives are: They should know that Murderbot doesn't like touching, and doesn't like talking about its feelings.

If they want characters to show friendliness with Murderbot, then they can just sit in a room watching TV, or watch TV together in the feed.

I am allowed to be upset about the ableism in this fandom, and it's not my responsibility to be nice about it when people are being ableist -.-

You can offer people alternatives for erasing Murderbot's touch aversion without acting like I'm being mean and bullying people for calling out the bigotry in this fandom. You said it yourself, you are literally not touch-averse. You do not get to tone police how I react to people being bigots about touch aversion.

You want to offer people tips for not being bigots? Cool, then go ahead. But do it without fucking throwing me under the bus for not being nice enough when I call out bigotry.

I am in fact touch averse. It's not my responsibility to hold anyone's hands and coddle their feelings when they're being bigots towards me and people like me.

Like, think for five seconds about why I might be so upset by people erasing Murderbot's touch aversion and making a mockery of people who are actually touch-averse. If you're more upset by me calling out the bigotry than the bigotry I'm calling out, you need to straighten out your priorities.

Especially if you're new to the fandom and haven't seen all the ableist posts regarding touch aversion that I have, and have had to put up with this bigotry your whole life -.-

Ok so having just started the Murderbot Diaries series by Martha Wells I was going through the Murderbot tag here and noticed 2 things. 1) people yelling about respecting Murderbot's canonical and consistent touch-repulsion but not really supplying any alternatives and 2) at least two pieces of art of what seemed to be people attempting to either respect (charitably) or get around (uncharitably) Murderbot's touch repulsion by having it "link" or "hold" pinkies with someone for comfort.

As someone who is....not exactly touch averse or repulsed but certainly touch neutral (it's not something I flinch from but it's also not something I seek out or really enjoy) I thought I could provide helpful insight for both points: namely, "here is how someone who doesn't enjoy touch would prefer it to be substituted because humans are pretty touchy feely and getting your brain around someone genuinely not enjoying that is tough" and also "this is why touching just pinkies is not the loophole you think it is".

Keeping in mind this is more meant to be for fic reference, but if it helps with insight for real life that's great too. For clarity, this is based on my experience which is mostly for sensory reasons and is not in any way trauma related; others may have different experiences.

I will start with the pinkie and why that's........super not great actually, because it will help get into the headspace which will help with "what to actually do instead".

The thing is, linking pinkies as a substitute for holding hands, which seems to be how it's being used here, does not "get around" touch aversion because it's not enough contact to "set it off". It actually does the opposite (for me). Now I have to be hyper aware of how much my pinkie is curled, how high am I holding my hand, how far away from my body is my arm, does it feel like I'm pulling on *their* arm or hand or pinkie, is my hand sweaty, do I have an itch, I can feel my joints creaking as I struggle not to move too much lest I dislodge them...etc. If the point was to offer me a point of contact that was small enough for me to be able to not notice it too much? It failed. Badly. I'd rather have a full body hug.

Linking pinkies doesn't work as a loophole because it fundamentally misunderstands the main source of the touch aversion: concentrated hyper awareness of the body. The smaller the touch the more tightly concentrated the awareness is, and the worse it will be. It's also a non-standard kind of touch which means there is NOTHING to go off of in terms of what is wanted from you, aka its a very difficult touch to "perform" (yes I'm talking about masking). Edit: Also! Your fingertips and finger pads are *designed* for sensory input! And are a part of your body that is nearly almost always uncovered! Which means a) practically GUARANTEED skin to skin contact which is Worse and b) congrats, you picked one of the few areas on the body that is Designed To Tell A Person They Are Touching Something.

What a touch averse person would prefer, if you wanted to offer comfort or convey affection, is to first and foremost *not to ask them to perform for YOUR comfort/frame of reference to begin with*.

Words of affirmation, a simple hand gesture (such as placing your hand over your heart), literally just asking them if they want to talk, sitting in silence with them (engaging in parallel play), or perhaps offering a blanket/comfy clothes/food are all much better ways to actually offer a touch averse person comfort or intimacy while also still respecting their boundary.

Actual "loopholes" in (my) touch aversion include incidental contact that doesn't last and is ignored/meaningless to all parties (such as brushing past someone or being in a crowded space), the "mom" override (when I know someone really needs physical comfort in that moment which, tbc, is doing fuck all for me and is entirely about the other person), and functional necessity (such as medical attention or grabbing someone to help them up or keep them steady). (In case anyone was keeping track, Murderbot has shown all of these "exceptions" to my knowledge.)

I just. Hope this helps with understanding the mindset instead of just being beaten over the head with "respect touch aversion or you are ableist" because i do understand its hard to wrap your head around. But we deal with it so frankly, you can deal with it too for a change.

[rjalker]

Fandom bigotry bingo card. Feel free to download and fill out.

[ID: A black and white bingo card labeled, "Fandom Bigotry Bingo, July 2023" The boxes read, starting from the top and going across from left to right:

Fiction can't hurt anyone! Just let people enjoy things! The fictional characters aren't real! Why don't you care about ~real~ bigotry? You just hate Queer people! Why do you hate women?! It's just people being annoying on the internet! Fandom is supposed to be fun! If it's fandom art, it's inherently progressive! Transformative works are never bigoted!!! Ever!!! You're terminally online if you think this is a problem. Clearly you don't have any real problems. [Free space] You're so triggered. Shipping is never harmful! Lol, calm down. It's not a big deal. Well I've never seen that happen. You're taking things too seriously. I'm an ally, but I think you're making problems out of nothing. I'm not a bigot! My friend is [minority]! Criticizing my bigotry is misogynistic! Criticizing my bigotry is ageist! Criticizing my bigotry is homomisic! Criticizing my bigotry is transmisic! Criticizing my bigotry is ableist!

End ID.]

[rjalker]

[ID: Six versions of the meme from Furutrama of a squid person shouting in a movie theater, now with the original character replaced with a drawing of Murderbot in its grey armour, with the face plate dark so you can't see its face as it shouts:

"If you erase canon Queer and disabled traits you don't like because it's not about you, you're a bad person, and you should feel bad!" "If you erase or cure Murderbot's touch aversion, you're ableist, and you should feel bad!" "If you erase Murderbot's nonbinary identity and it/its pronouns, you're exorsexist, and you should feel bad!" "If you ship Murderbot with anyone in any way, you're aroacemisic, and you should feel bad!" "If you whitewash characters of color in any way, you're racist, and you should feel bad!" "If you can't have fun in fandom without being a bigot, you don't get to have fun!" End ID.]

[rjalker]

Murderbot fandom bigotry bingo round 1!

Don't want to be part of the game? Then simply don't be a bigot :) it's cheap, it's easy, it's free!

deslizada said, July 28th, 2023:

just to be clear I do not ship murderbot/gurathin and I don't ship murderbot/art sexually (????? how?????) or even really romantically, I am just baffled by how seriously a few people are taking this. like I get being annoyed/hurt by erasure but murderbot is not a real person and its autonomy is not being violated by people writing shippy fanfic. seeing a few people being annoying on the internet should not make you spin off the shits

So close!

[ID: A black and white bingo card labeled, "Fandom Bigotry Bingo, July 2023"

The boxes read, starting from the top and going across from left to right:

Fiction can't hurt anyone! Just let people enjoy things! The fictional characters aren't real! Why don't you care about ~real~ bigotry? You just hate Queer people! Why do you hate women?! It's just people being annoying on the internet! Fandom is supposed to be fun! If it's fandom art, it's inherently progressive! Transformative works are never bigoted!!! Ever!!! You're terminally online if you think this is a problem. Clearly you don't have any real problems. [Free space] You're so triggered. Shipping is never harmful! Lol, calm down. It's not a big deal. Well I've never seen that happen. You're taking things too seriously. I'm an ally, but I think you're making problems out of nothing. I'm not a bigot! My friend is [minority]! Criticizing my bigotry is misogynistic! Criticizing my bigotry is ageist! Criticizing my bigotry is homomisic! Criticizing my bigotry is transmisic! Criticizing my bigotry is ableist!

The following boxes are marked with a partially transparent blue circle:

Fiction can't hurt anyone! The fictional characters aren't real! It's just people being annoying on the internet! You're terminally online if you think this is a problem. Lol, calm down. It's not a big deal. Shipping is never harmful! You're taking things too seriously. I'm an ally, but I think you're making problems out of nothing.

End ID.]

[rjalker]

"writing prompt where a touch averse person has to renegotiate their boundaries to make a touch starved person feel better!!!"

OH YOU MEAN A HORROR STORY???? YOU MEAN LIKE A HORROR STORY???? WHAT YOU'RE DESCRIBING IS A HORROR STORY!!! AND YOU ARE THE FUCKING VILLAIN!!!!

[Plain text: "Oh you mean a horror story???? You mean like a horror story???? What you're describing is a horror story!!! And you are the fucking villain!!!!" End plain text.]

People who aren't touch averse shut the fuck up forever and stop being ableist 2k23

[rjalker]

here's an example of just one of too fucking many to count athiktomisic posts that show up in the touch repulsed and touch averse tags. You know, the places where people who are touch averse are supposed to be able to go to avoid shit like this??

Anonymous said:

Prompt idea: touch repulsed (unless iniciated themselves) aroace and touch starved aroace try and navegate a platonic relationship in a middleground

the post was tagged:

#writing prompt, #prompt, #aromantic, #aroace, #touch repulsed, #touch starved, #friendship, #vaguerel, #submitted

link to original post. Archived link, since I hope the original will be deleted at some point or at least edited to be educational >:(

I am attempting to make this post as short and simple as possible.

Here is the simplest way I can possibly explain why this is ableist as shit:

The only so-called "middleground" between someone who is touch averse and someone who is asking them for touch, is the touch averse person suffering.

There are no ifs, ands, or buts about this.

If you ask touch averse people to "negotiate a middleground" between respecting their boundaries and causing them harm, you are doing nothing but causing harm.

Why is it always touch averse people who are forced to "compromise" on their boundaries?

Why is it always touch averse people who are fucking demonized for having boundaries?

That's what this prompt is doing, intentionally or not. The entire premise of this prompt is "a touch averse person exists, and that causes problems for other people".

Why is it always touch averse people who must negotiate and compromise on their boundaries?

Why is it always the touch averse person who must suffer for the sake of others?

[Plain text: "Why is it always the touch averse person who must suffer for the sake of others?" End plain text.]

Stop writing stories like this. Stop asking others to create stories like this. Stop fucking perpetuating the same ableism touch averse people face their entire fucking lives.

Let touch averse people have boundaries that no one ever fucking asks them to compromise on.

Let's frame it this way:

Say you don't want to be thrown into lava, but someone asks you to "negotiate a middleground" on that boundary.

This compromise, you are told, will still literally involve you being thrown into lava, but apparently, it's okay now, because you're being shamed into agreeing to it. What are they compromising on, you ask? Well, nothing! Literally nothing. They get everything they want, you lose everything you need.

Would you be happy with this arrangement?

Would you feel happy and safe and respected by being thrown into lava, or shamed for refusing? Even shamed even when you are thrown in?

No?

Congratulations! Now you have an idea of the kind of shit touch averse people have to put up their whole life!

If you actually want to respect touch averse people, don't even fucking ask us to compromise on our boundaries. If you wouldn't demand a sex repulsed person have sex with you just because you're horny, don't demand a touch averse person to touch you just because you're touch starved.

[Plain text: "If you actually want to respect touch averse people, don't even fucking ask us to compromise on our boundaries. If you wouldn't demand a sex repulsed person have sex with you just because you're horny, don't demand a touch averse person to touch you just because you're touch starved.". End Plain Text.]

End of fucking line.

[rjalker]

*slaps the roof of The Murderbot Diaries fandom*

[ID: The meme drawing of two people standing in front of a car, with a car salesman in a suit gesturing to the car, now edited to be saying, "This fandom can fit so many aroace-hating aroace people in it!". End ID.]

"partnering aroace people exist!"

yeah, and why do you think that gives you the right to erase nonpartnering aroace people? It's because amatnormativity still has a stranglehold on you and you're perfectly fine with that as long as you get to throw nonpartnering people under the bus to get the allos to accept you.

Being a partnering aroace does not give you the right to shit on and erase nonpartnering aroace people, which is what you are doing when you defend allos erasing Murderbot's explicitly unattracted Queerness.

Stop licking amatanormativity's boot and show some fucking solidarity with nonpartnering aroace people, or shut the absolute fuck up.