#THE NEW CHASSEUR IS NAMED CHARLES??

[abnormalityjoseph]

WHAT. NEW PALADIN??

NO MY BOY

STOP GET BACK 🤺 BACK I SAY 🤺🤺

[joachimnapoleon]

May I ask you the question on a rather delicate topic (which bothers me from time to time, when I stumble upon Murat’s mentions in Poniatowski’s biographies etc.)? It is often repeated that they resembled each other in some areas, like their love for parties, dances, horses and women...

So my question will be on that, latter topic.

We all know about Caroline, but what about other women in Joachim’s life? Did he have other significant “love interests”? Was Caroline the first woman he proposed to? Did he... cheat on her???

If you know anything on the topic could you please share it with us? ))) (Because I am very curious why did prince Murat earn such a reputation ;)

Thanks in advance!

Oooh this is going to be a fun one. :)

Murat did acquire quite a reputation for womanizing. Napoleon would say on Saint Helena that Murat "needed women like he needed food." On another occasion (and for some reason Napoleon returned to the subject of Murat's sex life on numerous occasions) he exclaimed "How many mistakes did Murat not commit in order to establish his headquarters in a chateau where there were women! He needed them every day, so I readily tolerated a general having a whore with him, in order to avoid this inconvenience." (From Gourgaud's diary, 3 April 1817.) Apparently Napoleon was quite fixated on this subject because Bertrand records similar remarks from him in an undated note assumed to be from some time in 1820: "Murat supposedly needed a woman each night, but every woman was good to him, and nothing stopped him, whether she had the pox or not." (Vol. 2 of Bertrand's Cahiers de Sainte-Hélène, pg 438) Which is likely a reference to one of Murat's more well-known mistresses, Madame Ruga, a lawyer's wife, whom he met (and possibly fell in love with) in Brescia.

But I'm getting a bit ahead of myself. We'll get back to Madame Ruga.

Murat's early life is very poorly documented. Some of his early biographers allude vaguely to him womanizing while he was still a student in the seminary, and even claim that he fought a duel over a young woman before abandoning the seminary to become a soldier. Take it all with a grain of salt. The first actual evidence of Murat having an attachment to a woman, lies in his letters referencing a young woman named Mion Bastide, from his hometown. It's hard to tell how deep his feelings for her ran; he repeatedly asks his older brother for news of her--and also what her "intentions" are, and if she is flirting with the young men of La Bastide while he is away on his military duties. Perhaps they had spoken of marriage at some point while he'd been home. Anyway, he eventually got tired of her not responding to him and moved on. While a captain in the chasseurs à cheval, he apparently had an affair with a woman named Eléonore; I haven't come across any details about this, but his attachment to her was strong enough that he kept a pocketwatch with "Joachim Murat, capitaine de chasseurs à cheval: Eléonore to Joachim - do not forget her" inscribed inside; he only relinquished this watch during the 1812 campaign, as a gift to a Cossack.

During the Italian campaign, Murat had affairs with two men's wives; the aforementioned Madame Ruga, and one Madame Ghirardi (more on her shortly). Madame Ruga is described in Desaix's notes as "young, pretty; wife of a lawyer; like all the Milanese, loving pleasures, having suffered from the venom"--"the venom" (le venin) being a tactful way of saying she'd had venereal disease, which she soon passed on to Murat. "Murat is ill," Napoleon writes to Josephine on 22 July 1796; "the goddess of the ball, Mme Ruga, properly gave him une galanterie," which is another lovely old-fashioned euphemism for giving someone VD. Napoleon continues that Murat "is furious; he wants to put his adventure in the gazettes." But in typical Murat fashion, his fury burned out quickly, and he seems to have been quite infatuated with Mme Ruga--he continued the affair, which is probably what spawned Napoleon's later disgusted recollection on Saint Helena. He even temporarily neglected his duties, until Napoleon sent him a mild reprimand, to which Murat replied with indignation. "I have never had any idea which could be the least disfavorable to you," Napoleon responded drily on 21 June 1797, "but I thought that you were more necessary to your division than to your mistress in Brescia." When Murat was sent back to Italy in 1800--months after marrying Caroline--there's a very good likelihood that he resumed his affair with Mme Ruga. At any rate, they maintained contact for some time; she delivered a letter to Eugène de Beauharnais for him in 1805.

Now on to Mme Ghirardi. Apparently he also met this woman, wife of a General Lechi, in Brescia. Eventually Napoleon sent Murat to Rastadt for peace negotiations at the end of the Italian campaign. According to an article in the January 1908 Revue Napoléonienne, this is what happened next:

But Murat's conquest does not intend to let him go. Desperate to hold him back, she follows him. The beauty flees from Brescia, crosses the Alps and falls into Strasbourg; when Murat returns from Rastadt to Paris, she settles there with him and stays in the same hotel, rue des Capucins-Neufs, number 20. The adventure here is complicated by a comic novel. The husband, worthy and notable citizen of Brescia, makes a lot of noise about his misadventure and instantly demands the lost object. He brings his complaint to Milan; he comes as far as Paris to address a mournful petition to the Directory. He begs Barras and his colleagues to set themselves up as defenders of outraged morality: "Put this young woman betrayed by a vile seducer on the path of righteousness and virtue, give a mother to an innocent child; it is an honest husband who asks for this act of justice. He will be able to publish it throughout the Cisalpine and to his fellow citizens who expect it from you." (...) A singular crossover facilitated the outcome. While the husband brought his action in Paris for restitution of wife, Murat, perhaps judging that the follies of youth should not be prolonged, adopted the part of bringing the fugitive back to Brescia and resuming his military career in Italy.

Napoleon writes to Berthier to inform him that Murat is coming back to Italy to return "this heroine of Brescia," take a vacation in Rome, and then rejoin the army. And that is the last we know of Mme Ghirardi and her affair with Murat.

The short answer to your question as to whether Murat cheated on Caroline is, unfortunately, yes.

And, not to make excuses for him, but it's hard to see it turning out otherwise given that Murat was pretty set in his ways by the time of his marriage. He had long since gotten into the habit of flitting from one woman to another, and he was in his early thirties when he finally married. On top of that, his military duties made it inevitable that he would spend long periods far away from Caroline--which he did--and I just don't think he had either the self-control or the interest in remaining faithful after awhile.

(I'm just going to excerpt this next part from a post I did on Murat's relationship with Caroline awhile back, since it fits in perfectly here.) 

They endured a long period of separation very early in their marriage–the first of many, adding up to several total years spent apart between 1800 and their final parting in May of 1815. Murat was sent to take command of a force in Italy in November 1800 while Caroline was pregnant with their first child; they did not see each other again until May of the following year. There are a couple of letters within Murat’s published correspondence that hint that, though he at first attempted to remain faithful to his wife during this interim, he may have given up on the endeavor prior to their reunion. The diplomat Charles Alquier, who befriended Murat in Italy, wrote to him in April 1801, lamenting not being able to spend a few days with him in Florence, teasing that he “would like to witness your gallant successes there and hear you talk about your marital fidelity, without believing it in the slightest.” The following month, after the arrival of Caroline, Alquier teases Murat again along these lines, in a postscript that reads “It was about time that Madame Murat arrived in Florence, or your hard-pressed fidelity was about to escape you.” He had almost certainly resumed his affair with Madame Ruga during this period.

There is a rather fascinating little affair that takes place early in 1806, in which Napoleon and Murat were having a simultaneous affair with a young woman named Éleonore Denuelle de la Plaigne, who was staying with the Murats at Neuilly at the time. Napoleon abruptly put an end to his affair with her when he discovered that she was also sleeping with Murat. Éleonore gave birth to a baby boy at the end of the year, and Napoleon believed the child was probably Murat's--up until he saw the boy in person prior to embarking for Saint Helena. What's particularly fascinating to me about this episode is the fact that Caroline pretty much arranged this affair for her brother--the Bonaparte siblings were so hell-bent on getting Napoleon to divorce Josephine by this point that some of them were acting like glorified pimps, hooking Napoleon up with girls left and right in hopes that he'd eventually produce a baby and prove that he wasn't to blame for the lack of an heir. But the timing of Murat, a man of proven fertility (he had four children by now), swooping in to plant a few seeds of his own at the same time that he undoubtedly knew Napoleon was bedding Éleonore just... let's just say I have theories about this. Suffice to say I think the Murats' sexual dynamic took some interesting twists and turns, and I'm fairly convinced that they each weaponized the other's sexuality on occasion--the Éleonore affair being the first example, and Caroline's affair with Metternich later on being another. This is totally, 100% my own personal theory and there's no way in hell to prove it either way, it's just my own reading of the situation given my current understanding of the personalities involved.

Anyway. The interesting thing about Murat's alleged affairs is that so few of his mistresses have been written of by name, the ones above being the exceptions. I've seen it written that he had a brief fling with the actress Mademoiselle Georges--who also allegedly had a short affair with Napoleon--but it's another one of those things that isn't well-sourced, at least from what I've found so far. As for his mistresses in Naples, I haven't come across the name of a single one. General Guglielmo Pépé only refers to them in the most general terms, remarking that King Joachim considered it dishonorable to refuse to grant a woman a favor "even were she not his mistress," and that he was especially susceptible to the "entreaties of the ladies about the Court". He also recounts Murat telling him once that "The Queen does not much like my giving audience to ladies," to which Pépé rejoined, "I pity the Queen if she notices the gallantries of Your Majesty." But I do find it extremely interesting that there seems to be absolutely no information whatsoever on any of Murat's alleged mistresses in Naples, which makes me wonder if his reputation in that area might be a bit exaggerated and if a lot of his so-called "gallantries" were simple flirtations. He never stopped being a massive flirt or enjoying having women's eyes on him. "He was very vain," Madame Fusil, an actress who met him in 1812, wrote of him, "and he liked women to watch out for him." 

I hope I didn't forget anything! And thanks for the ask! ^_^

[blogs-n-sheeit]

Mass murders with more deaths than Las Vegas (since 1945)

September 11 attacks 2,996 dead, 6,000+ wounded Date: September 11, 2001 Target(s): World Trade Center (North and South Towers), The Pentagon, a field in Pennsylvania and public transportation (planes) Location(s): Manhattan, New York; Stonycreek Township, Pennsylvania; The Pentagon in Arlington County, Virginia Weapon(s): Boxcutters, Multitools, hijacked commercial airliner jets Perpetrator(s): Waleed M. Al-Shehri, Wail M. Al-Shehri, Mohamed Atta, Abdulaziz Al-Omari, Satam M. A. Al-Suqami, Marwan Al-Shehhi, Fayez Rashid Ahmed Hassan Al-Qadi Banihammad, Mohand Al-Shehri, Hamza Al-Ghamdi, Ahmed Al-Ghamdi, Khalid Al-Mihdhar, Majed Moqed, Nawaf Al-Hazmi, Salem Al-Hazmi, Hani Hanjour, Ahmad Ibrahim A. Al-Haznawi, Ahmed Al-Nami, Ziad Samir Jarrah, and Saeed Al-Ghamdi Jonestown massacre 918 dead, 35 wounded Date: November 18, 1978 Target(s): an air strip, The Peoples Temple Agricultural Project, The Peoples Temple of the Disciples of Christ’s headquarters building in Georgetown Location(s): Port Kaituma, Georgetown and Jonestown, Guyana Weapon(s): Cyanide (907 dead), Guns (7 dead), Knives (4 dead) Perpetrator(s): Jim Jones, Annie Moore, Sharon Amos 1983 Beirut barracks bombings 307 dead (including 241 US military personnel), 150+ wounded (including 115 Americans) Date: October 23, 1983 Target(s): United States Marine Corps barracks at the Beirut Airport and the Drakkar barracks of the French 1st Parachute Chasseur Regiment and 9th Chasseur Regiment Location(s): Beirut and Ramlet al Baida, Lebanon Weapon(s): two truck bombs Perpetrator(s): Ismalal/Ismail Ascari and another unidentified bomber. Pan Am Flight 103 270 dead (259 died in the plane, 11 died on the ground) Date: December 21, 1988 Target(s): commercial aircraft Location: Lockerbie, Scotland (landed) Weapon: Bomb, Plane Perpetrator: Abdelbaset Al-Meghrani 1998 United States embassy bombings 224 dead (12 Americans killed), 4,000+ wounded Date: August 7, 1998 Target(s): United States Embassy in Dar es Salaam, Tanzania and the United States Embassy in Nairobi, Kenya Location(s): Nairobi, Kenya and Dar es Salaam, Tanzania Weapon(s): two truck bombs Perpetrator(s): Mohamed Rashed Daoud Al-Owhali and Hamden Khalif Allah Awad EgyptAir Flight 990 217 dead Date: October 31, 1999 Target: commercial airliner Location: Atlantic Ocean, about 60 miles south of Nantucket Island, Massachusetts (landed) Weapon: Plane, Water/Drowning (Ocean) Perpetrator: Gameel Al-Batouti Oklahoma City bombing 168 dead, 680+ wounded Date: April 19, 1995 Target: Alfred P. Murrah federal building Location: Oklahoma City, Oklahoma Weapon: truck bomb Perpetrator: Timothy McVeigh Our Lady of the Angels School fire 95 dead Date: December 1, 1958 Target: Our Lady of the Angels School Location: Chicago, Illinois Weapon: Matches/Fire Perpetrator: A 10-year-old boy Waco siege 88 dead (including 2 unborn and 4 ATF), 14 - 28 ATF agents wounded (sources vary), only about 50 Branch Davidians survived the siege and fire (with only 9 surviving the fire) Date(s): February 28 - April 19, 1993 Target: Mount Carmel Center Location: Waco, Texas Weapon(s): Fire (33 dead), Guns (32 dead), Undetermined (18 dead), Blunt Force (4 dead), Stabbing (1 dead) Perpetrator(s): David Koresh and his followers / ATF Sources: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waco_siege http://www.apologeticsindex.org/pdf/Graham.pdf https://books.google.com/books?id=WU42AAAAQBAJ&pg=PA78&lpg=PA78&dq=%22branch+davidians+survived”&source=bl&ots=kQpQ1P56Ds&sig=ACfU3U0anBGjClhrsZEWJBUnLPt3XEE8hg&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiiiK-Zoe7iAhVFmeAKHWjJBH0Q6AEwBHoECAoQAQ#v=onepage&q=%22branch%20davidians%20survived”&f=false http://www.policefoundation.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/DOT-Report-ATF-Investigation-of-David-Koresh_Sept-1993.pdf Happy Land fire 87 dead, 6 wounded Date: March 25, 1990 Target: Happy Land social club Location: Bronx, New York Weapon: Fire (Gasoline) Perpetrator: Julio Gonzalez 1983 United States embassy bombing in Beirut 64 dead, 120 wounded Date: April 18, 1983 Target: United States Embassy in Beirut, Lebanon Location: Beirut, Lebanon Weapon: car bomb Perpetrator(s): Unknown. Imad Mughniyah was alleged to have responsibility for this particular bombing, however this has been disputed. According to his Wikipedia article: “U.S. and Israeli officials have implicated Mughniyeh of many terrorist attacks, primarily against American and Israeli targets. These include 18 April 1983 bombing of the United States embassy in Beirut, Lebanon, which killed 63 people including 17 Americans whom among them were 7 CIA officers which included Robert Ames the head of Near East Division. Agreement is not entirely universal on Mughniyeh's involvement, and Caspar Weinberger, the Secretary of Defense at the time of the attack, told PBS in 2001, "We still do not have the actual knowledge of who was directly behind and responsible for the bombing of the American Embassy in Beirut, Lebanon and we certainly didn't then."” 1992 Los Angeles riots 63 dead, 2,383 wounded Date(s): April 29 - May 4, 1992 Target(s): Supermarkets and other business stores (including video stores, shoe stores, auto part stores, check cashing stores, five and dime stores, etc.), city streets and intersections, residential neighborhoods, parking lots, city squares, gas stations and liquor stores, apartment complexes, etc. Location(s): Los Angeles County, California; 3 died in San Diego (South Park); 1 in Fresno (Del Rey) Weapon(s): 40 by gunfire (including 5 who were shot by police), 23 by other causes; including 1 by strangulation, 2 stabbed, 8 vehicle-related, 2 from blunt force-related injuries, 2 were beaten to death, 3 from fire, 3 unknown, 1 from a fall and 1 from a heart attack Perpetrator(s): Odell Whitley Jr., Leonard Hampton and another unnamed teen(?) (Lucie Maronian; stabbed), Aniceto Barajas (Jose L. Garcia; shot), Mario E. Olivera (George Alvarez; beaten), Three suspects, including a 17-year-old (Paul Horace; shot), Akim Dashawn Gilmore (Alfred V. Miller; shot), Traville J. Craig (Elias G. Rivera; blunt force), Fidel Ortiz and Leonard Sosa (Wallace Tope; beaten), three men, two of whom were teenagers (Matthew D. Haines; shot), 15-year-old boy (Juana Espinosa; shot), Samiee Farzan (Imad Sharaf; fire), Andre Webb and Lavelle "Frog" Williams (Charles Orebo; shot), most others no charges were ever brought against, because they were either unrelated to the riot (one person died with a cigarette in his mouth while he slept that burned the house down) or no arrests were made because, as according to the Chief Spokesman Bob Dambacher, "Would this person have died at that particular time and that particular place if riots had not occurred?" Was the criteria for his office. Also because some of them were by police/self-defense, were accidents or because the crimes were unsolved (22 - 23+ cases still remain unsolved to this day). Or at least I couldn’t find any articles naming the suspects for many of them. Sources: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1992_Los_Angeles_riots http://spreadsheets.latimes.com/la-riots-deaths/? https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4467960/amp/25-years-Rodney-King-riots-deaths-unsolved.html https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1992-06-02-mn-452-story,amp.html https://www.newspapers.com/image/?clipping_id=10535592&fcfToken=eyJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiIsInR5cCI6IkpXVCJ9.eyJmcmVlLXZpZXctaWQiOjE3NzMwNDkxMSwiaWF0IjoxNTYwNjUxMDc3LCJleHAiOjE1NjA3Mzc0Nzd9.v_ihgb5EJErbv_zhntFDlBoLNScn2i9cPCV2IVmR_DA https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1993-04-24-me-26740-story,amp.html https://www.google.com/amp/s/patch.com/california/venice/amp/4135193/22-riot-related-homicides-unsolved-including-venice-killing http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread851974/pg2 http://www.sfweekly.com/news/dead-heat/amp/

[akhielim482]

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