#Sweet Potato SQQ

[torchstelechos]

I think Binghe deserves to know about SQQ's past life as SY, not because I think he deserves to know why he got shoved into the abyss but because I think he deserve to know SQQ's fucking weird ass little mind. Wife plots and all. I think this would give Binghe some enrichment for his Shizun enclosure, cause nothing would make his little bingpup hamster wheel of a brain spin faster than realizing that SQQ is thinking about him 24/7 and is as obsessed with him as he is with SQQ

[zykamiliah]

#I agree with all of this#Its really important to SQQs characterization that from an outside POV hes really hard to read and when he feels upset#he ignores or stuffs away those feelings#But from the readers POV we know exactly how hes feeling or what he thinks about things#Its really easy to make the mistake of thinking SQQ has a lot of emotions showing 24/7 because his brain is just screeching at the readers#But when we look at the other characters POV we see that SQQ very rarely emotes more than what would be described as ''demure''#So when he does emote (grieving arc :pensive:) all the other characters know how heartbroken he is even if he doesnt#because its not his facial expressions that give him away but his actions#He might not cry a lot nor does he get super angry but SQQ shows a lot of his feelings through how he responds#turning away from snake boi when upset and leaving him when we know SQQ would never do so unless fully unable to face the individual#Says a fucking LOT#or when he grieves at the sword mound#or when he calls for Binghe even when Binghe is in the abyss#He might shove the feelings away and not emote them but to everyone else its clear hes not over it or that hes upset because#he would never make that mistake willingly#I just am word vomiting so hard here but god I think about SQQs characterization SO HARD#Like mans is texting full essays when pissed but cant even say that he likes the book in person#But he then proceeds to do everything in his power to fix the plot my mans LOVES this story so much but can't express that in words#I think about SQQ like one thinks of a sweet potato#rotate and hold gently

@torchstelechos thank you for your tag essay i agree wholeheartedly.

One thing that really bothers me in the svsss donghua is the expression on Shen Qingqiu‘s face when he pushes Luo binghe into the abyss. He reaches for him and looks sad and regretful but I don’t think that was the case in the novel. He was on autopilot and couldn’t even properly look binghe in the eye (correct me if I’m wrong it’s been almost half a year since I read svsss). Sqq did not show anything on his face bc he was refusing to feel anything and that is so important. It says a lot about him and his way of coping which is ignoring his feelings or straight up denying them.

Also imagine being binghe and your shizun throwing you away. Now how must he have felt when he didn’t see a single emotion on his shizuns face except for maybe indifference. But if his shizun were to look sad would that not make him feel or understand that he didn’t want to do it? Would he not be more confused?

Idk it’s something so small but it means so much

[torchstelechos]

You know I think it's kind of funny how much LBH and SQQ mirror each other, like do you guys think about how to everyone around them in canon LBH knows everything about SQQ down to a single birthmark but SQQ doesn't seem to know anything about LBH? Despite everything they've gone through, SQQ seems to be playing catch up in their own relationship while LBH was already getting their wedding ready? But for us, the viewers, we know that SQQ knows everything about who LBH was suppose to be while LBH knows nothing about SQQ's own past and what he was suppose to be? SQQ knows everything that doesn't involve himself, while LBH knows everything that does involves himself. It's so funny to me how that must look to outsiders versus themselves <3

[torchstelechos]

I do think its really important to remember that SY was suppose to be the villain character but its only because of his kindness and newly gained life that he didn’t end as one. In the very beginning of the story we learn that Peerless Cucumber Bro often left comments on how SJ didn’t get his dues and needed to be punished more, and only after he transmigrated did he acknowledge how awful of a death SJ had. He also made point to explain that he only read the book for LBH, which he noted to enjoy his decisive actions and deft ability to kill. Markedly, he liked his brutality and personality over the erotica that the majority of PIDW fans enjoyed. Peerless Cucumber Bro is someone who loves action and the ability to cut right to the chase, something that he does not do and most likely has difficulty with in his world.

Speaking of, it is something to note that Peerless Cucumber bro is rich. He had head chefs, he could pay for a 6k+ chapter book of erotica in 20 days, he noted that he could not understand SJs envy and ambition for power since he lives well, and he even noted to himself that his family was well off. He is incredibly wealthy, and it shows. Which is important to note because he, not once, showed any guilt or remorse on dying and leaving his family behind. Yes, he sometimes refers to people as being similar to his family but he never showed any pain for losing that life like he did when he lost LBH. This is important because I genuinely think SY was depressed and self destructive to himself, which goes against popular HC that he was chronically/terminally ill (I do like this HC and like how its portrayed in fanfiction). It would explain how he ended up dying all alone by himself, and how blase he was to his own life and death.

SQQ is a self destructive force who ended up dying three times, and didn’t feel anything about death itself. He was worried about others and the effect it had on them, but for himself it was up and on again like it never happened. He does not care for his health, had self isolated as SY to the point he died alone, and has a horrible self esteem to the point that he continuously agrees when other people put him down and often calls himself the villain. Even though we have seen the evidence of someone who is always being thrust into new situations and awful plots, he calls himself lazy and easy going. He hides his thoughts and feelings behind his fan and has a remarkably thin face. At the very base of his actions and his thoughts, he is self destructive, powerful, and smart. This is the set up for a villain.

However, when shown the actual people in front of him and forced to act as SJ did towards LBH and his disciples, he flinches from it. He notes that it happening in front of him was different. His entire self soothing comedy monologue went quiet when he had to enforce the Endless Abyss scene, and grieved for the childish innocence he killed from one of his favourite people. SY was set up to be the villain and obviously thinks of himself as one, but can not act as one. If he had the choice LBH would have been his sticky sweet white lotus disciple for as long as LBH wished to be.

His kindness, as seen in the book, is what turned him from being “the scumbag villain” to the protagonist we see in the novels. Which, yes, he is a protagonist! He even has the protag halo that LBH has and its very funny in the meta way for SQQ not to realize this, but thats for another post. But he loves his disciples, he loves his peak lord siblings, he loves his Binghe, he loves his new life, and he is kind. That is what kept him from being the villain he sees himself as, his kindness and love for others. Whether that be romantic, platonic, or familial, he loves the people he has met and he treats them kindly. That is why it is important to remember that he was set up as the villain by everything in the story we do not see, but what we do see is him continuously changing the story to fit a new genre that lets as many people as he can save live. Sorry sorry, I just think about SY being set up as a villain so much. It changes a lot of views I have on the series when I remember the duality of SYs story and character development.

[torchstelechos]

Hi I’m curious what exactly do you mean by bingmei being extremely good at communication? I haven’t read sv in quite some time and don’t remember many of his interactions with anyone other than sqq

Oh goody, I have validation to discuss this! First and foremost, I am studying western communication so I will be doing more general explanations when discussing theories. Second, the translated work I will be discussing is the Scum Villain Self Saving System; Seven Seas Entertainment translation. This is for clarification purposes on examples I will be using to explain what I mean. As for person being studied, I will only be discussing Lou Binghe's (Bingmei for the majority) communication style.

Alright, first off we will be discussing how Lou Binghe speaks to others. This is important because not all communication is *verbal* communication. Going in a chronological order for LBH's communication towards SQQ we see a very specific communication verbal style. LBH uses I-messages (or owned messages) to specifically state how he feels and how he hopes to fix or continue this in the future. Not unusual for students to use towards their teachers, as this is polite to do. However we can see that this continues even as LBH get's angrier with SQQ.

In the very first meeting, SQQ asks how LBH is doing with his cultivation and LBH says, "This disciple is stupid and still...failed to understand." (pg. 30, book 1) which is a perfect example of the I-message set up LBH has. "This disciple" is a statement of possession in his wording, what he is saying is that this statement is true of his own knowledge. "is stupid" is the modifier of this statement and "failed to understand" is the content. Essentially he is purposefully giving a statement that is non aggressive in communication theory of interpersonal relationships. Later, during the carriage incident before the Skinner Demon arc LBH also gives a non-aggressive statement towards Ming Fan "I wouldn't dare" (pg. 53, Book 1). This being another I-statement (added as it is known that SQQ is watching).

"Ning Yingying-shijie went with me to the city's market earlier today, Luo Binghe said. "Once evening fell, I urged Shijie to return, but she refused--then somehow she suddenly vanished. This disciple...searched the entire street once but couldn't find her, and he could only come to plead with Shizun for help."

This is another good example of said I-message use, LBH (even panicked) starts this by explaining the I-message owners (the people who know this info) and says "Ning Yingying-shijie" and "me" in a non aggressive statement opener. By then continuing to explain the situation and modified the information by his own feelings on the matter. By stating that evening fell and that she vanished, he is giving information (content) to SQQ but modifies it by stating that LBH "urged Shijie to return" and "searched" and "plead" he is modifying the information to suggest that he did his best and needs help in a non threatening manner. Another example of this is during the Skinner incident aftermath, where LBH asks SQQ if he may know the reason SQQ used him as bait. Upon given the promise that he would not die, he states, "If this disciple could give up his life for Shizun, it would be an honor." Once again this is a modified statement meant to be nonthreatening in communication theory. Now that we have gone over this era of LBH, lets jump to Meng Mo to explore the Dream sequence verbal communication.

A slight variation from the previous Communication! This era of LBH has made an assumption over SQQ's past actions and now is a tad looser than previous communication events. Instead of being timid with his questions, LBH specifically asks every single question he can to SQQ to verify whats happening and to gather more information. He continues, however to use the same I-mesage format for most sentences towards SQQ. Any and all variation of these statements are towards enemies (Sha Hauling's Demons, and Meng Mo) and when SQQ is harmed. LBH will give more aggressive statements that *demand* information, but rarely does he insult or do anything more aggressive than that in speech. The only times he has done so at this point are in defense of SQQ's life, as at that point he had been under the assumption he was dying. Skipping waaay ahead lets discuss verbal communication in the Abyss scene, as everything up to this point is very similar and does not have an emotional charge to it that would suggest a change in speech.

Noticeably, his speech pattern doesn't change but we get a new message type in this! A you-message are usually aggressive in communication style as you are stating something about someone else that might not be true, however in this instance it is a true statement. Probably implying that LBH would not have stated such a thing if he was not sure of what he was saying about SQQ. He states, "But Shizun, you said before that just as people can be good or bad, demons can be good or evil" which is a you-message with the content being people and demons with modifier being good, bad, and evil. Hes basically using past words to clarify an assumption in this instance, which isn't necessarily a wrong thing to do but there are better ways to ask this. He even continues this by saying, "But you said..." at a later part. Ending this scene he says, "Shizun, do you really want to kill me?" all around this scene is a rather good example of what I mean by LBH being a good communicator! Hes sticking to asking clarifying statements, and using I-messages to explain whats going on. Not only that, but hes not in the wrong for this scene and doesnt know that SQQ is agreeing with him in his mind. (pp. 248-249, book 1).

Lets skip to the next book and discuss the Jinlan City incident. Which I can say with immediate disdain, is when Xin Mo comes out to play in LBHs speech patterns. Before the abyss, LBH used a lot of I-messages and only stated things he knew to be true about himself (what he felt) and what he knew about others (information shared or told to him by said individual). Afterwards, due to both Xin Mo and trauma, we have an individual who uses a lot more you-messages and makes a lot more assumptions about individuals around him. He still asks a lot of clarifying questions/statements however, and even makes some of his more aggressive you statements tilted in such a way that SQQ could deny it.

Examples of what I just said appear in the chase scene: "No, I should say, a relentless hatred towards me." (pg. 54, book 2). and "Does Shizun honestly think that I would kill, burn, massacre cities, and inevitably topple countries just because of that half of my lineage?" (pg. 55, Book 2)

Its also the first time we get something new new from LBH, he starts insulting people in book 2! Towards SQQ he says, "Utter hypocrisy!" which is a major first for a lot of LBHs speech patterns. If he did insult people before this, he did so in a polite conventional way (email style lmao). Speeding up to get to the prison scene, there are more notable moments in the accusation stage where LBH continues to use more you messages to state what he does know about SQQ. This reads more along the lines as a defense, and a way to subtly imply that he wants to make sure he wasn't misunderstanding SQQ previously. As all you message statements he uses tend to be more questioning in nature (unless about how LBH was treated or taught by SQQ specifically).

In the prison scene, LBH states direct facts to LPM (its in a month, what are you doing, etc.) while towards SQQ he asks more clarifying questions about why he did what he did and what he wants. Its only after being refused answers that he reverts back to using more I-messages. "I knew the answer, but I still asked Shizun. I'm so stupid." (pg. 100, book 2) (Again with the stupid comment, it would appear to be a theme).

In the confrontation on rooftop scene, a tad too long for me to quote if we wish to get to emotional bids and nonverbal communication in this post, LBH is spitting mad and Xin Mo is active to an absurd degree because of backlash. This also has an affect on LBH! (something I will continue to point out because I am losing my mind over fanfic after fanfic acting like LBH is always yandere girlfriend mode 24/7. Hes not!!! Its literally Xin mo!!) He states his feelings over his past, and what he felt towards SQQ at that moment in mostly aggressive style communication. This being a lot of yous and a lot of accusation speech. This leads to the explosion and Xin Mo being cleared from LBH. He almost immediately starts using only I-messages again and clearly goes into shock, but he does revert back from you messages at this point.

Ironically, I found that when LBH is talking to himself (presumably) he only uses you messages because he thinks hes talking out what he knows to himself. As such, he does not worry about being polite at all before he kisses SQQ in his dreams. Its only after that he uses an I-message towards SQQ, and its more or a clarification statement. At around this point in the novel we get a healthy does of what a stable Xin Mo carrying LBH, and its someone who uses equal amount of you and I messages.

Going to book 3, we'll just go over his ending monologue/breakdown because. Listen, we're a few pages into this and I highly doubt anyones going to read this far. I feel like Peerless Cucumber absolutely wailing about PIDW latest chapter, this is an absurd post.

Anyway, towards absolute desolation, we will start discussing this segment with "Is that so? But I don't trust Shizun anymore." (pg. 287, book 3). Almost every line in this segment is a picture perfect communication breakdown on what and why LBH feels the way he does in an interpresonal relationship. He specifically states how he feels about SQQ, how this happened, why this feeling specifically, and what this means for them now. He then states how he feels about himself, and why! This is very important, because this is the basis of solid verbal communication. LBH even states how they can continue and how all this can be fixed. Of course, none of this is healthy but hey! It's theoretical good communication, not healthy communication (the major issue I see in this fandom is differentiating the two). It's after this last breakdown that he defaults to I-messages for the majority of the Ridge arc. It becomes more childish as time goes on, I will admit, but Xin Mo is full influence on LBH at this moment in time. It's after the papapa to save the world that we see something interesting, LBH goes back almost fully to just I-message speech pattern. This is notable because this is after everything intense happened and he has had time to think it over. Before now, when left to his own devices and forced to reckon with SQQ almost dying he would revert to you-message centric speech patterns but this is after Xin Mo. Since this is no longer a factor, LBH has taken to falling back towards his disciple era speech patterns. Basically, LBH has begun to take on a healthier and theoretical amazing communication technique because this is forcing SQQ (and others) to acknowledge the scenario and feelings of the matter.

Now getting onto Emotional bids! This is something LBH does almost the entire three books, any and all times LBH has stated "Shizun" by itself was an emotional bid. (emotional bids being an act or word usage to get your relationship pattern to acknowledge you or to showcase that they care about you). It's important to note that LBH's main way of emotional bids is verbal, he almost never goes the physical route for emotional bids. Yes, he does use physical means to make SQQ pay attention to him but this is more along the lines of staying in the conversation than acknowledging LBH specifically as someone SQQ cares for. Its only during the hand holding time that LBH uses an emotional bid in such a way, its also why it hurt LBH a lot more when SQQ seemingly turned away from it. Of LBH and SQQ, LBH uses the most emotional bids and lets SQQ respond to them in anyway. SQQ is, however, an idiot and doesn't notice most of them or actively misreads them. Its actually funny how many times I can count an emotional bid that SQQ ignores in a chapter (more than 10).

Nonverbal communication, ah how I hate thee in this instance, it covers 60-90% of human communication. LBH is more of a verbal communicator but also does use haptics and proxemics to communicate. Touch and distance, he uses these to insinuate different scenes and feelings on SQQ as a whole. Basically, LBH uses verbal communication to clarify but uses touch and distance to set tone for this communication exchange.

Now, what does LBH do wrong in communication? Strangley enough he does one thing very wrong despite the fact that he asks for clarification communication a lot. He mind reads (the act of assuming what someone is thinking) a lot because of the mixed signals he gets from SQQ. SQQ lacks the ability to verbally communicate certain things because of the system, this makes LBH have to decode a lot of nonverbal communication in hopes of understanding things. He fails. A lot. This is fair to him, but this is the main problem that facilitates the miscommunication of the entire series. Both LBH and SQQ think they know the other better than they do, and thus lead to problems when they actually do try to communicate with the other. Frustrating! I know!

TLDR; LBH as a whole is a theoretical good communicator with a slight assumption problem, but I didn't say that its healthy communication :3

[torchstelechos]

Understandably, SQQ would have no way to know this without actually communicating which we all know is a lost cause, but I do think it would be interesting if demons had different instincts compared to humans. Or at least, more elevated ones in comparison. It would bring LBH POV fics to an interesting degree if LBH was just, not human. Very obviously and completely not human in his POV. 

[torchstelechos]

Grabbing the SVSSS fandom in a chokehold, do you guys know that I fully one hundred percent think that SQQ, SY, and SJ are different characters within the meta narrative because of the fact of how the story is structured for our main character? I understand that SQQ is a courtesy name and has actual culture reason for it but because of how our characters come to be SQQ I find myself thinking that all three of them are separate characters and thus why I usually differentiate them when speaking about them in posts

[torchstelechos]

okay we joke and all but Shen Yuan getting transmigrated into what is basically fantasy ancient china fucked over his expectations for romance utterly and totally in a realistic way. Like our man was oblivious before hand but add on the fact that he probably has barely any awareness towards proper courting PLUS PIDWs canonically shitty romance we get someone who is fucking free balling through life. He has no idea what's the proper courting thing to do!!! He's probably suuper happy he and LBH just. Did that. Because he doesn't have to ask someone what to do. In courting. His face is to thin for that!! He would rather die than have to ask fucking YQY how to court his own husband like yiiiiiiikes....

[torchstelechos]

For all those wondering if Ill do a SQQ meta post on communication, hell yeah I will. I just need to reread some things and go over what parts I want to discuss. As @zykamiliah has mentioned before, SQQ uses other people to talk around his feelings and I wanted to explore that in a clinical sense alongside his I-messages. I also wanted to look over his emotional bids with LBH, his nonverbal communication (his main form), and a few other things I didn’t apply to LBHs meta because of length reasons (and I didn’t actually edit LBHs post I went full hog after discussing it with my coworkers). So! It will happen, it’ll just be a bit longer than LBHs and I need to format it on a google docs before I unleash it on the world. :3 hope thats okay with yall.

[torchstelechos]

I bet SQQ did ASMR videos, theres no proof or meta he just has the vibes of one of the wackiest roleplay ASMR people ever. He would like The White Rabbit ASMR I just fucking know it