#Give me time and I could also do SQQ whos AWFUL at communicating to an absurd degree

[torchstelechos]

Hi I’m curious what exactly do you mean by bingmei being extremely good at communication? I haven’t read sv in quite some time and don’t remember many of his interactions with anyone other than sqq

Oh goody, I have validation to discuss this! First and foremost, I am studying western communication so I will be doing more general explanations when discussing theories. Second, the translated work I will be discussing is the Scum Villain Self Saving System; Seven Seas Entertainment translation. This is for clarification purposes on examples I will be using to explain what I mean. As for person being studied, I will only be discussing Lou Binghe's (Bingmei for the majority) communication style.

Alright, first off we will be discussing how Lou Binghe speaks to others. This is important because not all communication is *verbal* communication. Going in a chronological order for LBH's communication towards SQQ we see a very specific communication verbal style. LBH uses I-messages (or owned messages) to specifically state how he feels and how he hopes to fix or continue this in the future. Not unusual for students to use towards their teachers, as this is polite to do. However we can see that this continues even as LBH get's angrier with SQQ.

In the very first meeting, SQQ asks how LBH is doing with his cultivation and LBH says, "This disciple is stupid and still...failed to understand." (pg. 30, book 1) which is a perfect example of the I-message set up LBH has. "This disciple" is a statement of possession in his wording, what he is saying is that this statement is true of his own knowledge. "is stupid" is the modifier of this statement and "failed to understand" is the content. Essentially he is purposefully giving a statement that is non aggressive in communication theory of interpersonal relationships. Later, during the carriage incident before the Skinner Demon arc LBH also gives a non-aggressive statement towards Ming Fan "I wouldn't dare" (pg. 53, Book 1). This being another I-statement (added as it is known that SQQ is watching).

"Ning Yingying-shijie went with me to the city's market earlier today, Luo Binghe said. "Once evening fell, I urged Shijie to return, but she refused--then somehow she suddenly vanished. This disciple...searched the entire street once but couldn't find her, and he could only come to plead with Shizun for help."

This is another good example of said I-message use, LBH (even panicked) starts this by explaining the I-message owners (the people who know this info) and says "Ning Yingying-shijie" and "me" in a non aggressive statement opener. By then continuing to explain the situation and modified the information by his own feelings on the matter. By stating that evening fell and that she vanished, he is giving information (content) to SQQ but modifies it by stating that LBH "urged Shijie to return" and "searched" and "plead" he is modifying the information to suggest that he did his best and needs help in a non threatening manner. Another example of this is during the Skinner incident aftermath, where LBH asks SQQ if he may know the reason SQQ used him as bait. Upon given the promise that he would not die, he states, "If this disciple could give up his life for Shizun, it would be an honor." Once again this is a modified statement meant to be nonthreatening in communication theory. Now that we have gone over this era of LBH, lets jump to Meng Mo to explore the Dream sequence verbal communication.

A slight variation from the previous Communication! This era of LBH has made an assumption over SQQ's past actions and now is a tad looser than previous communication events. Instead of being timid with his questions, LBH specifically asks every single question he can to SQQ to verify whats happening and to gather more information. He continues, however to use the same I-mesage format for most sentences towards SQQ. Any and all variation of these statements are towards enemies (Sha Hauling's Demons, and Meng Mo) and when SQQ is harmed. LBH will give more aggressive statements that *demand* information, but rarely does he insult or do anything more aggressive than that in speech. The only times he has done so at this point are in defense of SQQ's life, as at that point he had been under the assumption he was dying. Skipping waaay ahead lets discuss verbal communication in the Abyss scene, as everything up to this point is very similar and does not have an emotional charge to it that would suggest a change in speech.

Noticeably, his speech pattern doesn't change but we get a new message type in this! A you-message are usually aggressive in communication style as you are stating something about someone else that might not be true, however in this instance it is a true statement. Probably implying that LBH would not have stated such a thing if he was not sure of what he was saying about SQQ. He states, "But Shizun, you said before that just as people can be good or bad, demons can be good or evil" which is a you-message with the content being people and demons with modifier being good, bad, and evil. Hes basically using past words to clarify an assumption in this instance, which isn't necessarily a wrong thing to do but there are better ways to ask this. He even continues this by saying, "But you said..." at a later part. Ending this scene he says, "Shizun, do you really want to kill me?" all around this scene is a rather good example of what I mean by LBH being a good communicator! Hes sticking to asking clarifying statements, and using I-messages to explain whats going on. Not only that, but hes not in the wrong for this scene and doesnt know that SQQ is agreeing with him in his mind. (pp. 248-249, book 1).

Lets skip to the next book and discuss the Jinlan City incident. Which I can say with immediate disdain, is when Xin Mo comes out to play in LBHs speech patterns. Before the abyss, LBH used a lot of I-messages and only stated things he knew to be true about himself (what he felt) and what he knew about others (information shared or told to him by said individual). Afterwards, due to both Xin Mo and trauma, we have an individual who uses a lot more you-messages and makes a lot more assumptions about individuals around him. He still asks a lot of clarifying questions/statements however, and even makes some of his more aggressive you statements tilted in such a way that SQQ could deny it.

Examples of what I just said appear in the chase scene: "No, I should say, a relentless hatred towards me." (pg. 54, book 2). and "Does Shizun honestly think that I would kill, burn, massacre cities, and inevitably topple countries just because of that half of my lineage?" (pg. 55, Book 2)

Its also the first time we get something new new from LBH, he starts insulting people in book 2! Towards SQQ he says, "Utter hypocrisy!" which is a major first for a lot of LBHs speech patterns. If he did insult people before this, he did so in a polite conventional way (email style lmao). Speeding up to get to the prison scene, there are more notable moments in the accusation stage where LBH continues to use more you messages to state what he does know about SQQ. This reads more along the lines as a defense, and a way to subtly imply that he wants to make sure he wasn't misunderstanding SQQ previously. As all you message statements he uses tend to be more questioning in nature (unless about how LBH was treated or taught by SQQ specifically).

In the prison scene, LBH states direct facts to LPM (its in a month, what are you doing, etc.) while towards SQQ he asks more clarifying questions about why he did what he did and what he wants. Its only after being refused answers that he reverts back to using more I-messages. "I knew the answer, but I still asked Shizun. I'm so stupid." (pg. 100, book 2) (Again with the stupid comment, it would appear to be a theme).

In the confrontation on rooftop scene, a tad too long for me to quote if we wish to get to emotional bids and nonverbal communication in this post, LBH is spitting mad and Xin Mo is active to an absurd degree because of backlash. This also has an affect on LBH! (something I will continue to point out because I am losing my mind over fanfic after fanfic acting like LBH is always yandere girlfriend mode 24/7. Hes not!!! Its literally Xin mo!!) He states his feelings over his past, and what he felt towards SQQ at that moment in mostly aggressive style communication. This being a lot of yous and a lot of accusation speech. This leads to the explosion and Xin Mo being cleared from LBH. He almost immediately starts using only I-messages again and clearly goes into shock, but he does revert back from you messages at this point.

Ironically, I found that when LBH is talking to himself (presumably) he only uses you messages because he thinks hes talking out what he knows to himself. As such, he does not worry about being polite at all before he kisses SQQ in his dreams. Its only after that he uses an I-message towards SQQ, and its more or a clarification statement. At around this point in the novel we get a healthy does of what a stable Xin Mo carrying LBH, and its someone who uses equal amount of you and I messages.

Going to book 3, we'll just go over his ending monologue/breakdown because. Listen, we're a few pages into this and I highly doubt anyones going to read this far. I feel like Peerless Cucumber absolutely wailing about PIDW latest chapter, this is an absurd post.

Anyway, towards absolute desolation, we will start discussing this segment with "Is that so? But I don't trust Shizun anymore." (pg. 287, book 3). Almost every line in this segment is a picture perfect communication breakdown on what and why LBH feels the way he does in an interpresonal relationship. He specifically states how he feels about SQQ, how this happened, why this feeling specifically, and what this means for them now. He then states how he feels about himself, and why! This is very important, because this is the basis of solid verbal communication. LBH even states how they can continue and how all this can be fixed. Of course, none of this is healthy but hey! It's theoretical good communication, not healthy communication (the major issue I see in this fandom is differentiating the two). It's after this last breakdown that he defaults to I-messages for the majority of the Ridge arc. It becomes more childish as time goes on, I will admit, but Xin Mo is full influence on LBH at this moment in time. It's after the papapa to save the world that we see something interesting, LBH goes back almost fully to just I-message speech pattern. This is notable because this is after everything intense happened and he has had time to think it over. Before now, when left to his own devices and forced to reckon with SQQ almost dying he would revert to you-message centric speech patterns but this is after Xin Mo. Since this is no longer a factor, LBH has taken to falling back towards his disciple era speech patterns. Basically, LBH has begun to take on a healthier and theoretical amazing communication technique because this is forcing SQQ (and others) to acknowledge the scenario and feelings of the matter.

Now getting onto Emotional bids! This is something LBH does almost the entire three books, any and all times LBH has stated "Shizun" by itself was an emotional bid. (emotional bids being an act or word usage to get your relationship pattern to acknowledge you or to showcase that they care about you). It's important to note that LBH's main way of emotional bids is verbal, he almost never goes the physical route for emotional bids. Yes, he does use physical means to make SQQ pay attention to him but this is more along the lines of staying in the conversation than acknowledging LBH specifically as someone SQQ cares for. Its only during the hand holding time that LBH uses an emotional bid in such a way, its also why it hurt LBH a lot more when SQQ seemingly turned away from it. Of LBH and SQQ, LBH uses the most emotional bids and lets SQQ respond to them in anyway. SQQ is, however, an idiot and doesn't notice most of them or actively misreads them. Its actually funny how many times I can count an emotional bid that SQQ ignores in a chapter (more than 10).

Nonverbal communication, ah how I hate thee in this instance, it covers 60-90% of human communication. LBH is more of a verbal communicator but also does use haptics and proxemics to communicate. Touch and distance, he uses these to insinuate different scenes and feelings on SQQ as a whole. Basically, LBH uses verbal communication to clarify but uses touch and distance to set tone for this communication exchange.

Now, what does LBH do wrong in communication? Strangley enough he does one thing very wrong despite the fact that he asks for clarification communication a lot. He mind reads (the act of assuming what someone is thinking) a lot because of the mixed signals he gets from SQQ. SQQ lacks the ability to verbally communicate certain things because of the system, this makes LBH have to decode a lot of nonverbal communication in hopes of understanding things. He fails. A lot. This is fair to him, but this is the main problem that facilitates the miscommunication of the entire series. Both LBH and SQQ think they know the other better than they do, and thus lead to problems when they actually do try to communicate with the other. Frustrating! I know!

TLDR; LBH as a whole is a theoretical good communicator with a slight assumption problem, but I didn't say that its healthy communication :3

[zykamiliah]

#Give me time and I could also do SQQ whos AWFUL at communicating to an absurd degree#one of his main problems is that he uses I messages to lie about himself its wild

OP thank you so so much for this meta and for this tag specifically because you put into words what I've been trying to do since I posted the SQQ uses SJ to talk about his feelings meta. That his I-messages are basically lies most of the time is the KEY to unraveling his unreliable narration, not just how he communicates with others.

Hi I’m curious what exactly do you mean by bingmei being extremely good at communication? I haven’t read sv in quite some time and don’t remember many of his interactions with anyone other than sqq

Oh goody, I have validation to discuss this! First and foremost, I am studying western communication so I will be doing more general explanations when discussing theories. Second, the translated work I will be discussing is the Scum Villain Self Saving System; Seven Seas Entertainment translation. This is for clarification purposes on examples I will be using to explain what I mean. As for person being studied, I will only be discussing Lou Binghe's (Bingmei for the majority) communication style.

Alright, first off we will be discussing how Lou Binghe speaks to others. This is important because not all communication is *verbal* communication. Going in a chronological order for LBH's communication towards SQQ we see a very specific communication verbal style. LBH uses I-messages (or owned messages) to specifically state how he feels and how he hopes to fix or continue this in the future. Not unusual for students to use towards their teachers, as this is polite to do. However we can see that this continues even as LBH get's angrier with SQQ.

In the very first meeting, SQQ asks how LBH is doing with his cultivation and LBH says, "This disciple is stupid and still...failed to understand." (pg. 30, book 1) which is a perfect example of the I-message set up LBH has. "This disciple" is a statement of possession in his wording, what he is saying is that this statement is true of his own knowledge. "is stupid" is the modifier of this statement and "failed to understand" is the content. Essentially he is purposefully giving a statement that is non aggressive in communication theory of interpersonal relationships. Later, during the carriage incident before the Skinner Demon arc LBH also gives a non-aggressive statement towards Ming Fan "I wouldn't dare" (pg. 53, Book 1). This being another I-statement (added as it is known that SQQ is watching).

"Ning Yingying-shijie went with me to the city's market earlier today, Luo Binghe said. "Once evening fell, I urged Shijie to return, but she refused--then somehow she suddenly vanished. This disciple...searched the entire street once but couldn't find her, and he could only come to plead with Shizun for help."

This is another good example of said I-message use, LBH (even panicked) starts this by explaining the I-message owners (the people who know this info) and says "Ning Yingying-shijie" and "me" in a non aggressive statement opener. By then continuing to explain the situation and modified the information by his own feelings on the matter. By stating that evening fell and that she vanished, he is giving information (content) to SQQ but modifies it by stating that LBH "urged Shijie to return" and "searched" and "plead" he is modifying the information to suggest that he did his best and needs help in a non threatening manner. Another example of this is during the Skinner incident aftermath, where LBH asks SQQ if he may know the reason SQQ used him as bait. Upon given the promise that he would not die, he states, "If this disciple could give up his life for Shizun, it would be an honor." Once again this is a modified statement meant to be nonthreatening in communication theory. Now that we have gone over this era of LBH, lets jump to Meng Mo to explore the Dream sequence verbal communication.

A slight variation from the previous Communication! This era of LBH has made an assumption over SQQ's past actions and now is a tad looser than previous communication events. Instead of being timid with his questions, LBH specifically asks every single question he can to SQQ to verify whats happening and to gather more information. He continues, however to use the same I-mesage format for most sentences towards SQQ. Any and all variation of these statements are towards enemies (Sha Hauling's Demons, and Meng Mo) and when SQQ is harmed. LBH will give more aggressive statements that *demand* information, but rarely does he insult or do anything more aggressive than that in speech. The only times he has done so at this point are in defense of SQQ's life, as at that point he had been under the assumption he was dying. Skipping waaay ahead lets discuss verbal communication in the Abyss scene, as everything up to this point is very similar and does not have an emotional charge to it that would suggest a change in speech.

Noticeably, his speech pattern doesn't change but we get a new message type in this! A you-message are usually aggressive in communication style as you are stating something about someone else that might not be true, however in this instance it is a true statement. Probably implying that LBH would not have stated such a thing if he was not sure of what he was saying about SQQ. He states, "But Shizun, you said before that just as people can be good or bad, demons can be good or evil" which is a you-message with the content being people and demons with modifier being good, bad, and evil. Hes basically using past words to clarify an assumption in this instance, which isn't necessarily a wrong thing to do but there are better ways to ask this. He even continues this by saying, "But you said..." at a later part. Ending this scene he says, "Shizun, do you really want to kill me?" all around this scene is a rather good example of what I mean by LBH being a good communicator! Hes sticking to asking clarifying statements, and using I-messages to explain whats going on. Not only that, but hes not in the wrong for this scene and doesnt know that SQQ is agreeing with him in his mind. (pp. 248-249, book 1).

Lets skip to the next book and discuss the Jinlan City incident. Which I can say with immediate disdain, is when Xin Mo comes out to play in LBHs speech patterns. Before the abyss, LBH used a lot of I-messages and only stated things he knew to be true about himself (what he felt) and what he knew about others (information shared or told to him by said individual). Afterwards, due to both Xin Mo and trauma, we have an individual who uses a lot more you-messages and makes a lot more assumptions about individuals around him. He still asks a lot of clarifying questions/statements however, and even makes some of his more aggressive you statements tilted in such a way that SQQ could deny it.

Examples of what I just said appear in the chase scene: "No, I should say, a relentless hatred towards me." (pg. 54, book 2). and "Does Shizun honestly think that I would kill, burn, massacre cities, and inevitably topple countries just because of that half of my lineage?" (pg. 55, Book 2)

Its also the first time we get something new new from LBH, he starts insulting people in book 2! Towards SQQ he says, "Utter hypocrisy!" which is a major first for a lot of LBHs speech patterns. If he did insult people before this, he did so in a polite conventional way (email style lmao). Speeding up to get to the prison scene, there are more notable moments in the accusation stage where LBH continues to use more you messages to state what he does know about SQQ. This reads more along the lines as a defense, and a way to subtly imply that he wants to make sure he wasn't misunderstanding SQQ previously. As all you message statements he uses tend to be more questioning in nature (unless about how LBH was treated or taught by SQQ specifically).

In the prison scene, LBH states direct facts to LPM (its in a month, what are you doing, etc.) while towards SQQ he asks more clarifying questions about why he did what he did and what he wants. Its only after being refused answers that he reverts back to using more I-messages. "I knew the answer, but I still asked Shizun. I'm so stupid." (pg. 100, book 2) (Again with the stupid comment, it would appear to be a theme).

In the confrontation on rooftop scene, a tad too long for me to quote if we wish to get to emotional bids and nonverbal communication in this post, LBH is spitting mad and Xin Mo is active to an absurd degree because of backlash. This also has an affect on LBH! (something I will continue to point out because I am losing my mind over fanfic after fanfic acting like LBH is always yandere girlfriend mode 24/7. Hes not!!! Its literally Xin mo!!) He states his feelings over his past, and what he felt towards SQQ at that moment in mostly aggressive style communication. This being a lot of yous and a lot of accusation speech. This leads to the explosion and Xin Mo being cleared from LBH. He almost immediately starts using only I-messages again and clearly goes into shock, but he does revert back from you messages at this point.

Ironically, I found that when LBH is talking to himself (presumably) he only uses you messages because he thinks hes talking out what he knows to himself. As such, he does not worry about being polite at all before he kisses SQQ in his dreams. Its only after that he uses an I-message towards SQQ, and its more or a clarification statement. At around this point in the novel we get a healthy does of what a stable Xin Mo carrying LBH, and its someone who uses equal amount of you and I messages.

Going to book 3, we'll just go over his ending monologue/breakdown because. Listen, we're a few pages into this and I highly doubt anyones going to read this far. I feel like Peerless Cucumber absolutely wailing about PIDW latest chapter, this is an absurd post.

Anyway, towards absolute desolation, we will start discussing this segment with "Is that so? But I don't trust Shizun anymore." (pg. 287, book 3). Almost every line in this segment is a picture perfect communication breakdown on what and why LBH feels the way he does in an interpresonal relationship. He specifically states how he feels about SQQ, how this happened, why this feeling specifically, and what this means for them now. He then states how he feels about himself, and why! This is very important, because this is the basis of solid verbal communication. LBH even states how they can continue and how all this can be fixed. Of course, none of this is healthy but hey! It's theoretical good communication, not healthy communication (the major issue I see in this fandom is differentiating the two). It's after this last breakdown that he defaults to I-messages for the majority of the Ridge arc. It becomes more childish as time goes on, I will admit, but Xin Mo is full influence on LBH at this moment in time. It's after the papapa to save the world that we see something interesting, LBH goes back almost fully to just I-message speech pattern. This is notable because this is after everything intense happened and he has had time to think it over. Before now, when left to his own devices and forced to reckon with SQQ almost dying he would revert to you-message centric speech patterns but this is after Xin Mo. Since this is no longer a factor, LBH has taken to falling back towards his disciple era speech patterns. Basically, LBH has begun to take on a healthier and theoretical amazing communication technique because this is forcing SQQ (and others) to acknowledge the scenario and feelings of the matter.

Now getting onto Emotional bids! This is something LBH does almost the entire three books, any and all times LBH has stated "Shizun" by itself was an emotional bid. (emotional bids being an act or word usage to get your relationship pattern to acknowledge you or to showcase that they care about you). It's important to note that LBH's main way of emotional bids is verbal, he almost never goes the physical route for emotional bids. Yes, he does use physical means to make SQQ pay attention to him but this is more along the lines of staying in the conversation than acknowledging LBH specifically as someone SQQ cares for. Its only during the hand holding time that LBH uses an emotional bid in such a way, its also why it hurt LBH a lot more when SQQ seemingly turned away from it. Of LBH and SQQ, LBH uses the most emotional bids and lets SQQ respond to them in anyway. SQQ is, however, an idiot and doesn't notice most of them or actively misreads them. Its actually funny how many times I can count an emotional bid that SQQ ignores in a chapter (more than 10).

Nonverbal communication, ah how I hate thee in this instance, it covers 60-90% of human communication. LBH is more of a verbal communicator but also does use haptics and proxemics to communicate. Touch and distance, he uses these to insinuate different scenes and feelings on SQQ as a whole. Basically, LBH uses verbal communication to clarify but uses touch and distance to set tone for this communication exchange.

Now, what does LBH do wrong in communication? Strangley enough he does one thing very wrong despite the fact that he asks for clarification communication a lot. He mind reads (the act of assuming what someone is thinking) a lot because of the mixed signals he gets from SQQ. SQQ lacks the ability to verbally communicate certain things because of the system, this makes LBH have to decode a lot of nonverbal communication in hopes of understanding things. He fails. A lot. This is fair to him, but this is the main problem that facilitates the miscommunication of the entire series. Both LBH and SQQ think they know the other better than they do, and thus lead to problems when they actually do try to communicate with the other. Frustrating! I know!

TLDR; LBH as a whole is a theoretical good communicator with a slight assumption problem, but I didn't say that its healthy communication :3