#Snape debate

[maxdibert]

Calling Snape a stalker, creepy, a racist, or a homophobe (which drives me crazy because he’s literally the only man of his generation who could pass as queer-coded and is especially marginalized and attacked for his appearance and for not fitting the alpha-male standards) or a woman-abuser (when canonically the characters he’s shown to be the least aggressive and most accommodating with are always women, while his relationships with men tend to be much more conflicted) just shows a complete lack of reading comprehension, not to mention blatant classism and a total ignorance about how power structures work and how they impact the lives and decisions of people in vulnerable situations. And when Marauders fans come in trying to whitewash their high-born heroes by making things up that don’t happen in canon, or when they fail to respond to a well-supported argument about class dynamics, it tells me one thing: the rainbow flags and Rowling hate are just a facade, and they have no real understanding of how discrimination and social inequality actually work at their root.

[clingingtoskeletons]

It boggles my mind when people still try to say pensieve memories are subjective.

If that were the case, then how the hell would Harry be able to hear the Marauders' conversations during SWM? Snape obviously wasn't paying attention to them and had no idea they were there, so how would the memory be able to pick up what they were saying in such clear detail if pensieves weren't completely unbiased?

[superfallingstars]

the actual reason snape discourse is so stupid is that apparently some people are completely and utterly uninterested in considering why someone who is different from them might take actions that are different from what they would have taken in a given situation. if you are unwilling to explore someone’s motivations as soon as those motivations lead to an action you find morally reprehensible, if you are completely unable to relate on any level to someone you disagree with, if your enjoyment of a character is based solely on whether they adhere to your own arbitrary moral compass… then i’m not sure what you’re getting out of engaging with any story, period.

[glorber]

[lilithofpenandbook]

I just watched the scene where Dumbledore asks Snape if he's grown to care for Harry, and Snape's answer is to cast his Patronus, and something in me clicked.

His answer is to show the Patronus that matches Lily's. Harry's mother. I think what he was trying to say is that just like Lily loved Harry and died protecting him, he loves Harry and will die protecting him. And because he doesn't say anything, he's letting Dumbledore decide what he thinks the answer is.

As for Dumbledore, I'm sure he understood the meaning. And he's surprised, because Snape's love for Lily is still alive, and now it's been passed to Harry too. Because in spite of the fact that Snape hates Harry, he also loves him, and he's willing to die to protect him just like Lily did.

[seleneprince]

Mulciber: So, are you a boy or a girl?

Sevrina: I'm a fucking mess

[postmariannizm]

I have a very unpopular opinion on snapedom.

If we were a little bit less butthurt about everything and a little bit more fun, maybe more people would be willing to join the fandom - but we behave like a bunch of Leon Trotsky cultists that have to defend a fictional man from teenagers.

Snape would love to be hated by teenagers. Snape would cherish that. We should cherish that. We should be worse than Snape.

[souryam]

everytime I see short snape I collapse on the floor screaming and crying and vomiting why would u do this why why why

[musicfeedsmysoul12]

I gotta know more about the Snape thing. I just gotta.

Simple answer: Snape is a creep. We already know in canon when he takes half a photo of Lily and a piece of paper proclaiming her love. That’s just… fucking weird dude.

Long answer: Snape is convinced he’s in love with Lily and she will one day ‘come to her senses’ to be with him. He has placed a curse on her to only have children with her soulmate believing it is himself.

Spoiler- it’s not.

So anyway when he finds Bruno in a village he’s in for Death Eater business he discovers the threesome happened as he sees Lily and James kiss the Seer goodbye. Snape of course is enraged by this. He wants Bruno dead.

But he can’t kill the man as it would attract attention. Nor can he destroy the man’s mind for similar reasons. Instead he Obliviates the memories. Bruno goes back home without remembering his lovers who go into hiding.

[aurevoiralways]

I will never understand the whole "stan James Potter" thing. I'm sure some people just say it to piss off Snape fans, and to that all I can say is that I hope they find something better to do with their free time. But I will never understand the people who genuinely mean it. God forbid people be fans of characters who aren't objectively a "good person". If you're going to say that (as brain dead of an opinion as it is to have) at least follow your own line of logic. James Potter sexually harassed Snape. He was rich, privileged and entitled. He was very obviously a bully. He pestered a girl who had no interest in him until she caved and went out with him. He is not a "good person" either. If you're going to spew this bullshit rhetoric at least fucking be consistent. I find James pretty repulsive. But I'm mature enough to not give a shit when I see people enjoying a character that I don't. Is it too much to ask for that kind of decency to be reciprocated?

[maxdibert]

The average Snater always comes up with the whole “Snape is horrible, he only wanted to save Lily’s life, he didn’t care if her husband and a child died” and all that.

Let’s take a different perspective on this.

If Severus hadn’t pleaded solely for Lily’s life, Voldy wouldn’t have given Lily the option to save herself if she left her child. Therefore, she wouldn’t have been able to refuse and, consequently, wouldn’t have activated the ancient protection magic that actually saved Harry. For that sacrifice to activate the magic, it was necessary for the person being sacrificed to have the option to save themselves and refuse. Without that option, Harry would have been dead. Furthermore, as a consequence of that sacrifice, Dumbledore was able to seal the blood charm that kept Harry protected for 17 whole years.

In conclusion: If Severus hadn’t wanted to save only Lily, Harry would have died on October 31, 1981.

[vazaha-tya]

the fact that fans consider snape a poor and abused orphan and a hypercompetent prodigy at the same time is... interesting.

i suppose it's canon-accurate, the man does contain multitudes. when it's time to highlight how much the marauders suck, severus snape is defenseless against his horrible classist bullies. when it's time to show off how smart he was, he knows a wide array of curses and potions and invented some himself. the gap in canon comes when someone asks if he just fantasises about using those in his textbook margins, or if he actually used them. if he did, then against who, and why was is it never addressed by the narrative?

maybe because then the author would have had to work harder at writing a proper redemption arc instead of killing him conveniently and revealing he turned to the right side because he was childhood friends (and/or in love) with lily evans.

don't get me wrong, i want to like snape. i want to like the talented yet emotionally stunted potions professor who made the wrong choices and despises harry but still wants to do right by him and the wizarding world. i want to like the spy who hates kids but is forced to endure them because the dude who made sure he didn't go to jail is his former headmaster and he wants to keep him close at hand. i want to like the abused kid who was radicalised because he was offered power and a way to be vindicated after spending his life subjected to a horrible family dynamic where his father's hatred of magic features heavily.

but he's a bad spy, his motivations for switching sides are not compelling and the marauders-snape conflict, which could have been a smart way to represent a microcosm view of the wider issue i.e the clash of ideology and the brewing civil war existing at the time, instead becomes about a girl. eyeroll.

(but that's part of a wider conversation about how all the death eaters who turned against voldemort turn out to have done so only for selfish reasons and not because they saw his ideology as wrong. sigh. i'll headcanon it away as much as i can, but that's the textual information the books give us. thanks, i hate it.)

i even think it was a good idea to make the death eater an underdog who joined because he yearned for acceptance and respectability and also despised his muggle father while the front kids on the light side are two posh purebloods who have "no" stakes in this. it adds some complexity to the conversation, introduces nuances, and... is plainly something jkr couldn't handle. because she doesn't really do nuance.

and some fans can't either, i suppose, since i just saw a post saying that when remus and sirius talked about snape knowing more curses than half the seventh year while they just entered hogwarts, they actually meant curse words. eyeroll. why do you want him to be blameless? let him be a cunt. he's more interesting that way.

[superfallingstars]

snape deserved everything he got and worse. he was an incel creep and james was ALWAYS the better person by far.

gonna say something real crazy here, buck wild, just balls to the wall insane – but what if they were both bad? what if it’s bad to join a fascist hate movement and be mean to children as a fully grown adult and teacher, but it’s also bad to bully someone and threaten to take off their underwear in front of a crowd? and it’s bad to try to manipulate a girl into going out with you by saying you’ll stop bullying her friend if she accepts? what if that part when james says he doesn’t like snape because of “the fact that he exists” is in there for a reason? i know this is a really bonkers take, just cuckoo crazypants, to imagine that two people can be bad at the same time. and it’s probably even crazier to suggest that it actually doesn’t even matter who is better than who, and that this whole argument is a pointless endeavor, and that trying to play judge jury and executioner with fictional characters is an unproductive and frankly dumb way to engage with media

[loveeari]

my hate for snape ascends realities, and draco too like i simply can't and won't like those mf. like why is a grown ass man bullying a child? imma be real i cheered when he died on screen on book like idc.

i know everyones saying we love alan rickmans snape bro i don't like snape in any instance i just can't i hate that man with my life. if he was on fire i would let him burn and deserved every inch of misery in his worthless life when he decided to tell voldie abt the prophecy.

i hate draco to, ya'll infantilize him too much, he was literally spoiled by his parents like spoiled rotten. his mother literally turned tides of the war for him like wtf wtf wtf, he was alllll for the death eater propaganda and surrounded himself with horrible people on purpose,

like sirius was tortured his family was worse in comparison and he made his mindset different he was good.

draco doing one good thing does NOT erase every bad thing he's ever done to the golden trio. just because he had the decency to throw a damn wand to harry during war does not erase the fact that he tried to torture him and was vile to him hermione and RON over the six years.

like how was HARRY who was emotionally and probably physically abused by the dursleys was a better person then snape. like i really really don't understand. Im trying to understand all the multifaceted snape as ya'll make him but nah he's not a morally grey character with a heart of gold.

he is a man who walked over a dead husband ignored a crying traumatized baby to hug his dead best friend who he called a slur and then supported people who wanted her dead.

but no we're gonna say alllll this shit about James, a person who laid his life down for his wife and kid. he was probably a shit kid and def bullied snape but like snape did the same thing back to him, you guys purposely go blind and deaf when we point this out.

snape was so cruel he purposely left the memory of his james being horrible to harry to see just so harry could change his perception of his dad who laid down his life for him. UGHHHHHHHHH

[enbysiriusblack]

"you'll see my face in every place, but you can't catch me now" is so marlene for dorcas and peter and so mary for marlene and so lily for snape. all in vastly different ways.

[springs-hurts]

Okay I'm sorry I get the Appeal but anyone who says they've got a tattoo of "Always" Quote... I judge you so hard. Like nah man I'm so not into Whole Snape redemption and all that thing that I just think it sounds so childish, and I get the appeal of unrequited love but ufjfj move on ffs!