#Sir Thomas as Mrs. Bennet

[dionysiaproductions]

Today at Pemberley, the 2nd of September:

Pemberley has been hosting the country’s foremost portrait painter, Sir Thomas Lawrence for an extended visit during which he has painted the likeness of Mrs. Elizabeth Darcy.

Sir Lawrence has been heard describing his subject as ‘a witty conversationalist who makes the time spent painting pass more enjoyably than any other’ and his patron, Mr. Darcy as ‘present’.

Although, the picture is reported to be complete, the chance is unlikely of Sir Lawrence’s work being seen outside the great house. Mr. Darcy has declared himself far too proud of his wife’s portrait to allow it’s public display.

Previous days at Pemberley here

[anghraine]

#fascinating#that does change lizzy’s rejection of Mr Collins I think#that is to say they do in theory have a safety net#which at least ensures lizzy doesn’t feel the need to accept out of desperation#(in addition to her gamble that Bingley will propose to Jane thus providing another safety net (via @obi-wann-cannoli)

It does! The idea that Elizabeth is being either very brave or very romantic in refusing Mr Collins because the stakes are so high is, IMO, not really reflective of Elizabeth's thought process or even the narrative treatment of the episode in the novel.

I don't think there's even evidence that Elizabeth is gambling anything with her assumption that Jane/Bingley will happen, or that Elizabeth cares about Jane/Bingley for any reason except Jane's happiness. I'm not sure she ever experiences much anxiety about the future at all until the Lydia situation threatens it.

The rejection of Mr Collins is not really treated as high-stakes drama by anyone except Mr Collins and Mrs Bennet, the stupidest people involved. Of course, it's not unimportant. The ways in which Elizabeth has to simply endure him and then endure his succession of insults without complaint are certainly not unrelated to the handling of gender in the novel, there's foreshadowing (most obviously of Darcy's proposal, which I think is not quite as bad but far worse to experience for Elizabeth, and even Elizabeth's own later pining gets foreshadowed in her rejection of Mr Collins). But the Mr Collins subplot is, IMO, treated as fundamentally comic right up to the moment that Charlotte accepts him. That's where the drama comes from.

It's not that Elizabeth will ever be in Charlotte's position and just doesn't realize until she comes to terms with Charlotte's choice. She never fully comes to terms with Charlotte's marriage (she's still sure after leaving Kent that Charlotte will regret her decision someday, although she clearly hasn't yet), and in reality, Elizabeth will never be in Charlotte's position.

Elizabeth is pretty, she's always been a gentleman's daughter, and she has supportive and fairly wealthy if low-status extended family where Charlotte has no resources of that kind. Elizabeth is going to be fine, more or less. Marriage is the only way to fully hang onto her status or improve it, to be sure, but she's never going to be in the straits of a Charlotte.

I think the point of the Mr Collins subplot is not that Elizabeth is being impractical about her own situation, but that not all women—not most women, not even most within Elizabeth's own social group—can so easily shrug off the opportunity represented by even someone as pathetically repellent as Mr Collins. As circumstances grow more desperate, even a Mr Collins starts to look appealing.

Jane, in her Jane way, puts it pretty concisely:

You do not make allowance enough for difference of situation and temper. Consider Mr Collins’s respectability, and Charlotte’s prudent, steady character. Remember that she is one of a large family; that as to fortune it is a most eligible match; and be ready to believe, for everybody’s sake, that she may feel something like regard and esteem for our cousin.

Ok, I've been thinking about this question a lot and there's not enough evidence in P&P to fully support any answer, but I wanted to hear yours: What is the Gardiners' economic status/How rich are the Gardiners?

Obviously, Mr. Gardiner is a tradesman, but I'm desperately curious to know the extent of his wealth. Does he have a similar income to Mr. Bennet but is just more frugal? Would he have been able to take in his niece(s)/sister when Mr. Bennet died? Does he have Bingley-level tradesman wealth without the massive lump sum Bingley inherited from his father? Darcy assumes that Mr. and Mrs. Gardiner are gentry - but like, Bennet gentry or Woodhouse gentry or Lucas gentry. JANE SKIMPED ON THE GARDINER INFORMATION AND NOW WE'LL NEVER KNOW. So what are your headcanons surrounding the Gardiners' wealth?

Really, the most important Gardiner headcanon that the Gardiner children are immediately charmed by Darcy and think he's like ~the coolest~

thanks queen <3

Six months later: hi!

My opinion is that the Gardiners are very well-off in terms of the usual incomes of the gentry. It's difficult to pin down an exact income range because I'm not a historian or economist, but the literary evidence is pretty suggestive IMO.

For one, Mr Bennet has no trouble believing that Mr Gardiner could have shelled out ten thousand pounds for Lydia; the problem is the struggle of repaying him, as Mr Bennet would feel morally obligated to do. The impression I get is that this would be a lot of money for Mr Gardiner to come up with, but everyone accepts that he could quickly do it, where Mr Bennet could not. And Mrs Gardiner does insist that Mr Gardiner would have paid the money if Darcy had let him, which again suggests that it was reasonably doable for him.

When Elizabeth and Jane first pass the news to Mrs Bennet and try to express the debt of gratitude they all owe Mr Gardiner, Mrs Bennet's response is a bitter remark about how if her brother had not married and had children of his own, "I and my children must have had all his money, you know; and it is the first time we have ever had anything from him except a few presents."

Aside from what this reveals about her character (especially given the remarkable understatement of "a few presents" given everything they've done for Jane and Elizabeth), I think "all his money" suggests an awareness that there would have been quite a bit to inherit if Mr Gardiner hadn't had the temerity to, uh, have children.

The summer tourism journey also doesn't seem to represent a severe expense for the Gardiners, though it would be outside the realm of possibility for some. They're not super frugal, but they're also not going to pull a Sir William Lucas and abandon the source of their income, or take an estate or something to distance themselves from trade, and end up unable to provide security for their children or any significant luxuries for their loved ones and themselves. So the Gardiners do make practical decisions like living near Mr Gardiner's warehouses and continuing his business in town.

Darcy (in Elizabeth's opinion) mistakes the Gardiners for "people of fashion" rather than gentry per se. This is interesting because Darcy originally considered the entire Meryton neighborhood, including the local gentry, as people noticeably not of fashion. This concept of people of fashion is typically more about fashionable high society than trade vs gentry IMO.

For instance, Mr Hurst is described as "a man of more fashion than fortune"—i.e. someone with high society credentials from his family, but not a lot of money, though he has enough to maintain a house in Grosvenor Street. (I think the implication is that the Hursts considered their status and Louisa Bingley's 20,000 l. from trade a fair exchange.) So likely, Darcy is not confusing the Gardiners for minor rural gentry, but even higher-status people if Elizabeth is analyzing his reaction correctly, based on their appearance, apparel, demeanor, etc.

This is definitely a time when wealthy people in trade could pass for people of fashion, but I think it would ordinarily take some doing, and though the Gardiners are stylish and relatively young, they aren't trying hard in the way that the Bingleys are. Yet Darcy, who went on a whole tangent about trade cooties during his proposal, can't even identify the Gardiners as people in trade upon meeting them—that's important.

(It's also significant, of course, that he's surprised to discover their exact connection aka that they're Mrs Bennet's relatives, which is honestly pretty fair. In any case, he evaluates Mr and Mrs Gardiner on their own considerable merits by this point.)

So again, I get the sense that the Gardiners are quite well-off people who spend their money on nice enough things that they can be mistaken for a completely different class than their own, but are not specifically aiming for that or super extravagant, either. Their habits seem rather similar to Darcy's, actually—I don't think they're anywhere near as wealthy, but they're wealthy enough that they can approach major expenditures fairly casually, as he does. But unlike Darcy, it will always be contingent on Mr Gardiner's business success and they have to plan around his work and the possibility of sudden changes in terms of his work.

I personally think that Mr Gardiner would undoubtedly have been able to take care of his sister and nieces in the worst case scenario. Six women used to a high standard of living (we know Mrs Bennet is extravagant; it's only Mr Bennet's frugality that keeps the Bennets out of debt as it is) would probably be a strain, but I don't think beyond the income level indicated, even accounting for the needs of his immediate family.

When Mrs Bennet is dramatizing herself during the Lydia disaster, she tells Mr Gardiner, "if you are not kind to us, brother, I do not know what we shall do," and he assures her of his affection for both her and her entire family. This could be seen as a sort of empty redirection that avoids promising anything, especially given that her catastrophizing fantasy scenarios are extremely unlikely, but I think that's a misread of his character.

I see his reply as a tactful assurance that, in the (improbable) event of Mr Bennet dying in a duel, his affection for her and her daughters would indeed ensure his protection of her and her daughters. There's no doubt from anyone that he's capable of doing this, though it would certainly mean a change in their style of living that Mrs Bennet would vocally resent.

So while this isn't super-specific, I hope it helped!

Normally I don't need to do this, but I would like to add a sort of credit/disclaimer: I didn't initially notice all these signs and my understanding of the Gardiners' standard of living and general circumstances was, I believe, strongly influenced by JulieW of the Life and Times board at Republic of Pemberley back in the earlyish 2000s (maybe about 2006?).

The L&T board is sadly gone (or was the last few times I checked), though ROP clings to life, but she knew a lot more about Georgian history and culture than I ever will, and these references to the Gardiners' prosperity seemed really glaring once she pointed them out.

(Her analysis of Pemberley's age, architecture, and general class significance was also really influential and I'm still really sad that I have to rely on the perfidy of memory about it.)

[bethanydelleman]

So of course whenever I write "Mr. Bennet is a terrible father" people come back at me with, "I can tell you about terrible fathers! How dare you use that word!" but I'm probably going to keep using it and here is why:

Her father was a clergyman, without being neglected, or poor, and a very respectable man, though his name was Richard—and he had never been handsome. He had a considerable independence besides two good livings—and he was not in the least addicted to locking up his daughters. - Northanger Abbey, Ch 1

Jane Austen knew that very extremely horrible parents existed, but that was not what she was interested in as a writer. To me, she seems to want to expose how parents can fail their children without anything that would be considered explicit physical abuse. Even General Tilney and Mrs. Norris only talk and scream, we have no evidence at all that they would hit.

And yet, the characters suffer a lot because of their parents. Emma's father has imprisoned her, but by loving her too much. Mr. Bennet doesn't harm his daughters in the present, but he's setting them up for a very precarious future*. Sir Walter would never let Anne go unfed or unclothed, but he still neglects her. Mrs. Dashwood is so emotionally fragile that Elinor feels that she cannot confide in her when she is suffering herself. Sir Thomas was so strict that his children hated their home.

Jane Austen didn't write Gothic horror or the worst side of humanity. She wrote very relatable and realistically flawed parents who still put their children through a lot of suffering.

*Going to add, letting Lydia go to Brighton explicitly to expose herself, which may reflect poorly on the other sisters in a world where reputation is everything, is another failure to consider his children's future. Even if you disregard the danger to Lydia herself, he was endangering all his children. He is very much a person who trades the future for a peaceful present.

[thatscarletflycatcher]

Inspired by @kajaono's post the other day about Victoria Hamilton, JLM and Austen adaptations, have a list of the actors that have been in at least 2 Austen adaptations:

Hat trickers:

Victoria Hamilton played Henrietta Musgrove in Persuasion (1995), Julia Bertram in Mansfield Park (1999), and Mrs. Foster in Pride and Prejudice (1995)

Johnny Lee Miller played one of Fanny's brothers in Mansfield Park (1983), Edmund Bertram in Mansfield Park (1999), and Mr. Knightley in Emma (2009).

Doubles:

Joanna David played Elinor Dashwood in Sense and Sensibility 1972; she also played Mrs. Gardiner in Pride and Prejudice (1995)

Samantha Bond played Maria Bertram in Mansfield Park (1983); she later on played Mrs. Weston in Emma (ITV, 1996)

Bernard Hepton played Sir Thomas Bertram in Mansfield Park (1983); he later on played Mr. Woodhouse in Emma (ITV, 1996)

Sylvestra Latouzel played Fanny Price in Mansfield Park (1983); she later on played Mrs. Allen in Northanger Abbey (2007)

Nicholas Farrell played Edmund Bertram in Mansfield Park (1983); he later on played Mr. Musgrove in Persuasion (2007)

Irene Richard played Charlotte Lucas in Pride and Prejudice (1980); she then played Elinor Dashwood in Sense and Sensibility (1981)

Robert Hardy played General Tilney in Northanger Abbey (1987); he later on played Sir John Middleton in Sense and Sensibility (1995)

Sophie Thompson played Mary Musgrove in Persuasion (1995), and then the following year she played Miss Bates in Emma (Miramax, 1996)

Kate Beckinsale played Emma Woodhouse in Emma (1996); later on she played Lady Susan in Love and Friendship (2016)

Blake Ritson played Edmund Bertram in Mansfield Park (2007) and later on Mr. Elton in Emma (2009)

Jemma Redgrave played Lady Bertram in Mansfield Park (2007); she later on played Mrs. DeCourcy in Love and Friendship (2016)

Lucy Robinson played Mrs. Hurst in Pride and Prejudice (1995); the following year she played Mrs. Elton in Emma (ITV, 1996)

Carey Mulligan played Kitty Bennet in Pride & Prejudice (2005) and then Isabella Thorpe in Northanger Abbey (2007)

Lucy Briers played Mary Bennet in Pride and Prejudice (1995); she also played a minor role as Mrs. Reynolds in Emma (2020)

If we include Austen-adjacent pieces:

Hat tricks:

Hugh Bonneville played Mr. Rushworth in Mansfield Park (1999) and later on played Rev. Brook Bridges in Miss Austen Regrets (2007) and then Mr. Bennet in Lost in Austen (2008)

Doubles:

Olivia Williams played Jane Fairfax in Emma (ITV, 1996); she later on played Jane Austen in Miss Austen Regrets (2007)

Also, Greta Scacchi played Mrs. Weston in Emma (Miramax, 1996) and went on to play Cassandra Austen in Miss Austen Regrets (2007)

Guy Henry played John Knightley in Emma (ITV, 1996), and later on played Mr. Collins in Lost in Austen (2008)

Christina Cole played Caroline Bingley in Lost in Austen (2008) and then Mrs. Elton in Emma (2009)

Anna Maxwell Martin played Cassandra Austen in Becoming Jane (2009), and then went on to play Elizabeth Bennet in Death Comes to Pemberley (2014)

JJ Feild played Mr. Tilney in Northanger Abbey (2007) and later on played Mr. Nobley in Austenland (2014)

If we include radiodramas/radioplays:

Hat tricks:

Blake Ritson gets it as he played Colonel Brandon in the 2010 S&S radio drama

Doubles:

Amanda Root played Anne Elliot in Persuasion (1995); she also played Fanny Price in the 1997 radio drama for Mansfield Park

Felicity Jones also played Fanny in the 2003 radio drama for Mansfield Park, and later on played Catherine Morland in Northanger Abbey (2007)

Robert Glenister played Captain Harville in Persuasion (1995); he also played Edmund Bertram in the 1997 radio drama for Mansfield Park

Amanda Hale played Mary Musgrove in Persuasion (2007) and later on Elinor Dashwood in the 2010 radio drama for Sense and Sensibility.

David Bamber played Mr. Collins in Pride and Prejudice (1995); he later on played Mr. Elton in the 2000 radio drama for Emma

Robert Bathurst played Mr. Knightley in the same adaptation of Emma; later on he played Mr. Weston in Emma (2009)

Also in that adaptation, Tom Hollander played Frank Churchill; he later on played Mr. Collins in Pride & Prejudice (2005)

Juliet Stevenson played Anne Elliot in the 1986 radio drama for Persuasion; later on she played Mrs. Elton in Emma (Miramax, 1996)

And I'm very likely still forgetting someone.

[themalhambird]

Thinking about how Jane Austen's six novels taken together (in writing order, not publication order) become an increasingly scathing criticism of social class, i.e:

Northanger Abbey: Individual members of the gentry (General Tilney, chiefly) come in for some criticism, but mostly on a personal level: General Tilney is a grasping, tyrannical father to be sure but we hear little (though we might easily infer) of what he is like as the resident landholder. The final crisis of the novel, General Tilney's refusal to sanction Henry and Catherine's marriage, is resolved by Eleanor's marriage to a Viscount.

Sense and Sensibility: The "correctness" and "elegance" of the fashionable members of society- the Dashwoods, Robert Ferras, Lady Middleton- are negatively contrasted to the warmness and frankness of Mrs Jennings- whose kind-heartedness makes her more attractive, in spite of her lower-class origins and perceived vulgarity, than Fanny, Lady Middleton or Mrs Ferras (snr).

Pride and Prejudice: The aristocratic Lady Catherine de Bourgh is an interfearing busy body whose title and money only excuse her officiousness and rudeness. Darcy's pride in his superior situation to the Bennets leads him to act wrongly with regard to Bingley and Jane. Aunt and Uncle Gardiner, in trade, are more respectable- certainly better parental figures- than the gentleman Mr Bennet (and Mrs Bennet too). At the same time - Darcy's strengths are displayed in his undertakings as the resident landholder of the Pemberly estates- he supports the poor, and his situation allows him to shield the more vulnerable when he his spurred to act (Georgiana, to a less successful extent Lydia). Wickham's circumstances - debt, etc- could easily be read as the consequences of his wanting to step out of his place- his desire to be the oldest, or at least the second, son of a Mr Darcy- rather than what he 'is'- the son of Mr. Darcy's steward

Mansfield Park: Hey. HEY. look at the shitshow of a baronetcy. Lady Bertram is functionally useless. Sir Thomas is such a bad father that his daughters marry idiots just to get away from him. Also, having money can't give you intelligence or a personality. Most of "fashionable society" are actually miserable and mercenary and also probably immoralistic. The Church is clouded by corruption and isn't actively benefiting the local parish the way it should. The whole thing is underpinned by slavery, and the hardworking Price Children are ultimatley more deserving than the flighty Bertram ones. THAT BEING SAID: the portrait of Mr. Price is hardly better than the one of Sir Thomas, and Mansfield Park does stabilise- indeed, begins grows stronger with the reformation of its heir, and the implication that Fanny and Edmund go on to have children of their own. There is less of a quarrel with establishment, and more of a quarrel with the people who fill it.

Emma: "Gentility is inherent one can sense it in a person-" no you can't lmao shut up. There is literally no inherent difference marking out a gentleman's daughter and a farmer's daughter. Emma's snobbery as to class leaves her, at various times, both isolated and into some *serious* missteps. Emma and Frank Churchill both have a tendency to treat others as playthings, as their money allows them to do so.

Persuasion: The peerage/nobility are patently ridiculous throw them out in favour of [relative] meritocracy and hard workers. Sure, the resident landowners are supposed to be of benefit to those beneath them but they're not, actually, they take all of the privileges and fulfil non of the responsibilities and are pretty much uniformly selfish and our heroine Casts Them Off.

[cottagecore-raccoon]

Note: this isn't necessarily asking who you think is the worst parent, just who you personally would struggle with being raised by the most

(Parents who died before the novel began aren't listed here)

[lizzy-bonnet]

Austenian Dads

A recent post about mothers-in-law by @bethanydelleman had me thinking about the dads in Jane Austen. We get a lot of discourse about mothers and mother figures, who have big, important roles in the stores, but her depictions of fatherhood are interesting too. Here, in my opinion, are the dads and dad-like figures in her novels, ranked from best to worst.

(note: I've left out deceased and barely-there dads, but I will note that Mr. Dashwood's attempt to look out for his daughters, and the amount of grief occasioned by his death, indicate that he is a Top Dad.)

Mr. Musgrove - Notwithstanding "poor Richard", Mr. Musgrove has three reasonably well-adjusted adult children, seems to love his younger children, and goes to his daughter's bedside when she is injured. His children all make Sensible Matches, and he likes kids enough to permit the little Harvilles to be brought back to Uppercross to increase its noise. He folds my beloved Anne into his family and treats her affectionately whenever she is with them. By the standards of the day, he seems pretty solid. 8/10 Least Bad Dad.

Sir John Middleton - Like Mr. Musgrove, Sir John is a people person. His immediate and unreserved adoption of the Dashwoods in their hour of need tells us that he is an unambiguously good-hearted person, which usually leads to loving parenting. His kids are young so we don't see him interacting much with them, but his desire to give everyone a nice time bodes well. He doesn't notice when his teasing goes to far. 7/10 definitely tells the same dad joke over and over.

Mr. Bennet - As a reader I love him because he's pithy, but he's honestly not a great dad, and is not modeling a happy marriage for his daughters. He shows favouritism to Lizzy, lets Lydia run wild, is hurtful towards Mary and Kitty, and fails to save up any money to bribe worthless young men to marry his daughters. 5/10 for putting all his eggs in the "having a son" basket and then doing nothing when the handle on the basket breaks.

Lt. Price - Loud, embarrassing, shiftless. Ignores his daughters but seems to maybe do OK with his sons? 3.5/10, tops.

Sir Walter Elliot - This fucking guy, am I right? He's vain, he's self-obsessed, he's a spendthrift, and he's a dreadful parent. His eldest daughter is his favourite and he basically forgets Anne and Mary exist when they're not directly in front of him (and sometimes doesn't notice them even when they are). His favouritism has damaged Anne and Mary in different ways to Mr. Bennet's to his younger daughters, but the source is the same: he has one child who is like him and others that he doesn't click with, so he basically lets them shift for themselves. In the Elliot household I'm certain this means that sensitive Anne was left to grieve her mother without any comfort from her father. It's no wonder she was ready to marry the first loving man she saw. When he sees her looking well, he thinks it's down to her skin care regimen. 3/10 merely Gowland's.

Sir Thomas Bertram - Poor Fanny, her father figures are both the pits. Sir Thomas knows absolutely zero about what any of his kids are like and can't see how bad Aunt Norris's influence is on all of them. He swings wildly between neglectful and overbearing, and then tries to pressure Fanny into marrying Henry Crawford despite his attentions making her visibly miserable. He also knows perfectly well that Fanny is shy, and yet does not give her any warning that he's throwing a ball for her coming out, plus he sends her home to Portsmouth as a sort of weirdo punishment to make her see what she's missing by not marrying Henry. 2/10 points and he really only gets these for 1. offering to free Maria from her engagement and 2. getting a fire in Fanny's grate, even if he left it until WAY too late to do her much good.

General Tilney - the closest Austen gives us to a villainous parent. The General is dictatorial to his children, oppressive around the house and occasionally creepy towards Catherine. This is made apparent by the fact that the Abbey suddenly becomes much more fun when he goes off to London. He shows himself the ultimate Bad Dad by tossing his daughter's friend out of the house without explanation and hardly the resources to get herself home. 0/10 Gothic Tyrant Dad.

[afirewiel]

I'd love to hear everyone's arguments, so please do share!

[penig]

The conference was neither so short nor so conclusive as the lady had designed. The gentleman was not so easily satisfied. He had all the disposition to persevere that Sir Thomas could wish him. He had vanity, which strongly inclined him in the first place to think she did love him, though she might not know it herself; and which, secondly, when constrained at last to admit that she did know her own present feelings, convinced him that he should be able in time to make those feelings what he wished.

He was in love, very much in love; and it was a love which, operating on an active, sanguine spirit, of more warmth than delicacy, made her affection appear of greater consequence because it was withheld, and determined him to have the glory, as well as the felicity, of forcing her to love him.

He would not despair: he would not desist. He had every well-grounded reason for solid attachment; he knew her to have all the worth that could justify the warmest hopes of lasting happiness with her; her conduct at this very time, by speaking the disinterestedness and delicacy of her character (qualities which he believed most rare indeed), was of a sort to heighten all his wishes, and confirm all his resolutions. He knew not that he had a pre-engaged heart to attack. Of that he had no suspicion. He considered her rather as one who had never thought on the subject enough to be in danger; who had been guarded by youth, a youth of mind as lovely as of person; whose modesty had prevented her from understanding his attentions, and who was still overpowered by the suddenness of addresses so wholly unexpected, and the novelty of a situation which her fancy had never taken into account.

Must it not follow of course, that, when he was understood, he should succeed? He believed it fully. Love such as his, in a man like himself, must with perseverance secure a return, and at no great distance; and he had so much delight in the idea of obliging her to love him in a very short time, that her not loving him now was scarcely regretted. A little difficulty to be overcome was no evil to Henry Crawford. He rather derived spirits from it. He had been apt to gain hearts too easily. His situation was new and animating.

To Fanny, however, who had known too much opposition all her life to find any charm in it, all this was unintelligible.

I haven’t ever been in academia, or in what may be called the modern Jane Austen fandom, but I used to do a fair amount of random reading of criticism when I was young and there was no internet in which to seek out kindred spirits to discuss books no one else I knew was reading, and I distinctly recall indications of a sizable body of opinion that Mansfield Park would have ended better if Henry had resisted the temptation to run off with Maria and eventually Fanny had married him and Edmund had married Mary. Because Fanny and Edmund are unattractive prigs and need livening up, basically.

If any such readers still exist, I recommend to their consideration this opening passage from Chapter 34, and also to contrast it with Mr. Darcy’s reception of Elizabeth Bennet’s rejection.

Edmund and Fanny, of course, are prigs, particularly by modern standards. Many of their scruples, values, and mannerisms invite us to consider things like how therapy might have helped them vs. the degree to which they just needed to lighten up and be less judgy. This view of them merits examination, not going to lie.

But Henry’s courtship of Fanny is a horror show. She says no not once, but repeatedly, and not one person takes her no seriously. As far as everyone around her is concerned, she is young and timid and doesn’t know her own mind or her own best interest and fortunately Henry’s persistence will wear her down all right in the end. Even the author gives somewhat of the appearance of victim-blaming a few paragraphs later on, when she admits that Fanny’s shyness and sense of her own unworth makes her refusals sound less firm than she intended, and that if she hadn’t already been in love with Edmund Henry probably would have manipulated and pressured her into loving, or believing she loved, him in the end. (If only she’d had the confidence to be as rude to him as Lizzie was to Darcy!) But Austen is herself in no doubt that this would have been a bad thing and Henry would have made her miserable; probably more miserable, if she had fallen in love with him, than if she merely took him on out of desire for financial and social security and the approval of her family.

This guy makes my flesh creep. He’s worse than Mr. Collins and I don’t know what I can say, stronger than that. But her moral and social authority Sir Thomas is on his side; Mrs Norris is only horrified that Fanny got an offer instead of Julia; Lady Bertram, on whose indolent dependence Fanny so relied, actually says she could spare her company with as good a cause as that; Fanny even finds some of her own moral principles lining up against her, urging her to be grateful for his help in getting her brother William promoted - ugh! Fanny needs all her judginess and hidebound morality to support her revulsion of him and survive this assault, and it’s only beginning in this chapter.

[anghraine]

Hi! Your Austen blogging is wonderful; I enjoy it so much!! I’ve been going through your Gardiner-related posts (because they are great <3) and they are/were among your top 5 Austen couples. However, my ask is not actually about them, but Sir Thomas and Lady Bertram, who were also on your list. I (kind of) like them individually, but I was wondering what you enjoy about them as a couple?

Thank you very much!

I think that list must have been really old. I definitely wouldn't put Sir Thomas/Lady Bertram there now.

I primarily liked their relationship, as far as I recall, by contrast to the relationship between Mr and Mrs Bennet. Lady Bertram isn't exactly an intellectual giant, and Sir Thomas has his commonalities with Mr Bennet despite being far more humorless, yet the dynamic is really different. I just find that intriguing—the ways in which Austen re-uses tropes but from different angles or by rearranging pieces of them.

[bethanydelleman]

Ranking Jane Austen heroines/women on how good of a mother they’d be?

As with the men, I think they would all be good mothers, though in different ways.

Elizabeth Bennet: Soccer mom, she wasn't given the opportunity to have a structured education herself, it will be different for her kids. She's hiring the best governess she can find (after Darcy does a full background check), she's encouraging her kids to do extracurriculars, they will speak six languages that she doesn't understand or else! Has a minor panic attack if she says anything that sounds even remotely like something either of her parents would say.

Jane Bennet: Gentle mom, she cannot imagine punishing her children, she just has a killer disappointed face (she is unaware of this). Encourages her children to always try to understand both sides of the story. Will eventually fall for a lie one of her children tells and be devastated when she figures out the truth.

Anne Elliot: Perfect mother, there is indeed no one so proper, so capable as Anne. She has also watched her sister do everything wrong and she knows exactly how to do it right.

Emma Woodhouse: Scatterbrained mom, makes a resolution to teach her daughter fancy work but then gets distracted and the sampler is left half finished. Promised to read with her son but they only make it halfway through the novel. Good thing she hired an excellent "Miss Taylor" to pick up the slack! And despite her occasional screw-ups, her kids love her to pieces. They just better be on guard when they hit 18 and she starts trying to marry them off.

Marianne Dashwood: Crunchy mom, or whatever the Regency period equivalent would be. She wants her kids to feel the dead leaves between their toes, she encourages them to write poetry and play moving ballads. Otherwise, a lot like her own mother (they have very similar personalities)

Elinor Dashwood: I-Say-I-Love-You-With-Food Mom, she may not be exactly emotionally available, but she orders her daughter's favourite meal when she's sad and there are tiny hearts in the stiches of her son's clothes. She makes sure her kids are provided for, educated, and healthy. When she asks if they are hungry, they know she's saying, "I love you."

Fanny Price: Nurturing mom, she will be everything for those children that Edmund and William were to her, but nothing like Sir Thomas, Lady Bertram, Mrs. Norris or her own parents. She has a good deal of experience from nursing her own siblings so it's a pretty smooth beginning.

Catherine Morland: Overconfident mom, Catherine has been there and done that, she has six younger brothers and sisters after all, she's READY! This will be easy! All you have to do is make sure the baby is fed, washed, changed, and napped... oh... it's a lot harder to do this when you have only slept for 2.5 hours last night... (I know she would have servants, but still, being a new mother is tough!)

Bonus: Jane Fairfax tries to keep Frank from spoiling the kids, but it is literally impossible. He keeps buying them huge presents and then she would be the bad guy for saying no. Also, she knows that Frank lost their child in Kensington Gardens (twice), that's why she always insists he take a footman now.

Bonus bonus: Harriet Smith has a special box where she keeps all the 'treasures' her kids collect. It is her most precious possession.

[attemptedvictorian]

May I present to you the Austen fathers! Sir Walter Elliot at the moment is insalling his 64th mirror (I mean having a servant do it, of course). Here we see Mr. Woodhouse convinced he has yet another unheard-of disease and pointing out a random draft. Mr Bennet’s locked himself in his library for two days straight. And if you’re wondering, we locked out General Tilney and Sir Thomas Bertram- we’re planning on throwing eggs at them later.

[fluoresensitivearchived]

beloved by toni morrison (black horror, gothic horror, historical fiction)

what’s it about?: sethe, a runaway slave woman living in exile from her community, deals with grief, trauma and loss alongside her daughter, denver, and her mysterious house guest, beloved. that is all i can say without spoiling the whole thing!

why i love it; it’s about the grief, it’s about violence and blood as a form of love, it’s about paul d looking at sethe’s back and seeing the beauty in her horrible scars, and it’s about sethe accepting that she’s her own best thing

trigger warnings: rape, violence, slavery, anti-blackness

pride & prejudice by jane austen ( classics, romance )

what’s it about; a man of means must be in want of a wife ... mr. bingley is rich and mrs. bennet wants HER daughter to marry him, but like, so does everyone else, but mr. bingley has this annoying, stuck up friend, mr. darcy, and elizabeth bennet (lizzie, as everyone knows her) does NOT like him, but yes she does. also, there’s a lot of social prejudices, like someone with only two servants is poor and weird and uncouth, and someone with a manor is the best, EVEN if he’s been known to disgrace fair ladies 😳 and it’s all complex and interesting to read

why i recommend it; it’s thee original romantic comedy, and while i get annoyed when people water down these classic plots to ‘blah blah blah short thing’, that’s literally the best way to describe it. and yes, there are tender moments, yes, there are hand-clench moments, but there’s also a lot of interesting moments that go into the social politics of the time!

sir gawain & the green knight, as translated by Burton Raffel (classics, poetry, epic fiction)

what’s it about; so imagine you’re having a christmas party, and some weird guy says ‘hey! cut off my head!’ so you do it, and then he stands back up and goes, ‘cool! in a year’s time, i’ll return the favor’, and now you have to go on an epic quest that tests your honor and chivalry and religion. also this guy is green.

why i recommend it; a) because dev patel movie, and b) it’s such an incredible piece of fiction. i read the burton raffel version, but i’ve been eyeing the j.r.r. tolkien version ... you just have to choose which one’s right for you, or! read all the versions until you settle on a favorite!

watership down by richard adams

what’s it about; the rabbits have a complex society. but, more in depth, fiver (the runt of den) sees a human-made sign and has a vision of the rabbit warren being destroyed but ALSO a vision of this promised land...watership down ... there’s power struggles, there’s two (2) rabbit cults, and so many moments that made me want to lay face down in the grass

why i recommend it; fiver is cassandra, a doomed and cursed prophet, and hazel is the chosen one with too much weight on his shoulders...there are so many moments of shock and brutality that are balanced by goodness, by love and friendship and kinship ... the rabbits befriend a bird ... prince with a thousand enemies, when they catch you, they’ll kill you...but first they must catch you

housekeeping by marilyanne robinson (domestic fiction)

what’s it about; after their mother commits suicide, two sisters go to live in a mountain town with their grandmother. when their grandmother passes, their aunt (a drifter) comes to take care of them. it’s about the family relationships, it’s about sibling bonds, it’s questioning what does it mean to be a mother? what does it mean to be a social outcast?

why i recommend it; a young lesbian grows super attached to her lesbian drifter aunt...i don’t know what else you want me to say, it’s so incredibly touching

red dragon by thomas harris

what’s it about; retired fbi profiler will graham is pulled back into the dark world of criminal investigation, and must work with hannibal lecter to catch francis dolerhyde, “the tooth fairy”

why i recommend it; it’s nothing like that show, so like ... dash that out of your head. it’s superior to the show, it surpasses the show. if you want gay shit, you will get gay shit, but the real power of this story is like, the depravity. it’s about will breaking inside because he has to bring his wife and step-child into this world, it’s about will having the potential for great violence and doing nothing with it, it’s about hannibal lecter being a full-on bitch 24/7 and coaxing/teasing that cruelty out of people for FUNSIES, it’s amazing, it’s delicious.

trigger warnings: extreme violence, mentions of cannibalism

no more descriptions underneath the cut for now! i’ll come back to this post when I have the energy! or, you can ask me specifically about the books i’ve recommended.

foundryside by robert jackson bennett

the hare with amber eyes by edmund de waal

mexican gothic by silvia moreno garcia

nothing to see here by kevin wilson

the fifth season by n.k. jemisin

severance by ling ma

oil! by upton sinclair

annihilation by jeff vandermeer

the wizard of earthsea by ursula k. le guin

the final revival of opal & nev by dawnie walton

zami: a new spelling of my name by audre lorde

ponti by sharlene tao

such a fun age by kiley reid

[freja-hoj]

Coming soon to Netflix…

Pride and Prejudice

Lizzy Bennet and FitzwilIiam Darcy meet at the Meryton Ball and hit it off immediately. She finds his easygoing manner refreshing compared with her stuffy family. He appreciates her generous, open-minded ways. Watch them scheme to bring her sister and his best friend together, all under the watchful eyes of her judgmental youngest sister Lydia and Lydia’s holier-than-thou beau, George Wickham.

Northanger Abbey

Catherine Moreland is weary from her travels around England disproving local legends with the Thorpes, two brilliant investigative journalists. She has a change of heart after witnessing a paranormal experience while spending a few days at the home of General Tilney.

Sense and Sensability

Flighty Marianne Dashwood can’t decide which man she wants to be with: dashing Colonel Brandon, or earnest John Willoughby. Her sister Elinor is no help, selfishly running off to marry her fiancé Edward when Marianne falls ill. Luckily, Marianne’s brother and sister-in-law step in to save the day.

Emma

Notoriously cynical and indifferent, Emma Woodhouse is spurred into saving her village from an aggressive landowner after meeting the poor, but charming, Mr, Knightley.

Mansfield Park

Fanny Price, the beloved niece of Sir Thomas Bertram, is engaged to her cousin, Edmund. A lover’s spat threatens to tear them apart for good, and the two try to make one another jealous by pairing up with the dull Crawford siblings. Luckily, love prevails when the Crawfords leave for missionary work overseas.

[bethanydelleman]

[Sir Thomas was most cordially anxious for the perfection of Mr. Crawford's character in that point. He wished him to be a model of constancy; and fancied the best means of effecting it would be by not trying him too long]

I love this part of the novel. Sir Thomas seems like such an intelligent, serious man, but he descends into full Mrs. Bennet-mode the second he thinks Henry Crawford might like his niece. He's completely blind to anything but the advantage that the match would bring his family and his standards, as pointed out here, are totally wrong.

Oh Miss Jane I see what you did there.

#burn

[to-be-frank-i-dont-care]

Blorbo List

I got bored so I decided to make a list of all my blorbos. feel free to ignore :P

Note: "blorbo," in my book, is any character I would die for, not necessarily my top favorite character in the fandom. I would die for all of these, but my favorites are marked with the sparkle emoji. my all time favorite character is noted with a mushroom

(fandoms are not in order)

Fantasy

The Lord of the Rings– Merry Brandybuck, Pippin Took, Frodo Baggins, Boromir, Legolas, Gimli, Aragorn, Eowyn, Faramir 

The Chronicles of Narnia– Edmund✨, Lucy, Reepicheep, Eustace, Caspian, Peter, Susan 

The Silmarillion– Turin Turambar✨, Finduilas, Beleg Cuthalion, Finrod Felagund, Beren, Luthien  

Pirates of the Caribbean– Jack Sparrow✨, Will Turner, Hector Barbossa, Calypso, Syrena, Philip Swift    

Peter Pan 2003 – Peter Pan✨, Wendy Darling, John Darling, Slightly 

Crime/Detective

Endeavour– Endeavour Morse✨, Joan Thursday, Shirley Trewlove, George Fancy, Reginald Bright, Fred Thursday 

Death in Paradise– Humphrey Goodman✨, Camille Bordey, Florence Cassell, Catherine Bordey, JP Hooper, Ruby Patterson  

Shakespeare and Hathaway– Luella Shakespeare, Frank Hathaway, Sebastian Brudenell✨

The X Files– Fox Mulder✨, Dana Scully 

Period/Historical Dramas

Pride and Prejudice– Elizabeth Bennet✨, Fitzwilliam Darcy, Jane Bennet, Mr Bingley, Georgiana Darcy, Maria Lucas 

1917– William Schofield✨, Thomas Blake, Lauri, the convoy gang

Newsies– Jack Kelly✨, Crutchy, Spot, Sarah, pretty much all the Newsies

Our Mutual Friend– Lizzie Hexam✨, Eugene Wrayburn, John Harmon, Bella Wilfer

The Scarlet Pimpernel– Sir Percy Blakeney✨

A Tale of Two Cities– Sydney Carton✨ 

Wives and Daughters– Molly Gibson✨, Roger Hamley 

The Book Thief– Liesel Meminger, Rudy Steiner✨, Hans Hubermann  

Les Miserables– Enjolras, Courfeyrac✨, Combeferre, Jehan, Joly, Grantaire, Feuilly, Bahorel, Bossuet, Eponine, Gavroche 

Anne of Green Gables– Anne Shirley, Gilbert Blythe✨, Diana Barry 

The Man From Snowy River– Jim Craig✨, Jessica Harrison

Action  

Tintin– Tintin✨, Captain Haddock, Professor Calculus, Snowy

Marvel Cinematic Universe– Peter Parker✨, Loki Laufeyson, Steve Rogers, MJ Watson, Ned Leeds, Wanda Maximoff, Peggy Carter, Natasha Romanoff, Yelena Belova, Sylvie 

The A Team– HM Murdock✨, Faceman Peck, Amy Amanda Adams 

Macgyver– Macgyver✨, Pete Thornton 

Six of Crows– Kaz Brekker, Inej Ghafa✨, Matthias Helvar, Nina Zenik 

Animated 

Miraculous Ladybug– Marinette Dupain-Cheng/Ladybug, Adrien Agreste/Chat Noir✨, Alya Cesaire, Nino Lahiffe, Jessica Keynes 

Centaurworld– Horse, Wammawink, Rider, Durpleton✨, Glendale, Stabby, Nowhere King/Elktaur, Mysterious Woman, Waterbaby

How to Train Your Dragon– Hiccup Haddock✨, Astrid Hofferson, Snotlout Jorgenson, Fishlegs Ingerman, Ruff and Tuff Thorston, Toothless, Stormfly 

Tangled– Rapunzel✨, Eugene Fitzherbert 

Spirit: Stallion of the Cimarron– Spirit✨, Rain, Little Creek  

Skyward Sword– Link✨, Zelda, Skipper, Gorko, Pipit, Karane, Ghirahim, Fi

Twilight Princess– Link✨, Zelda, Midna, Shad, Ashei  

anyway there you go :P