#Rocky horror discourse

[convenient-plot-device]

I just saw a post about Rocky Horror that mentions "the writer has been on estrogen longer than you have been alive". True. He's also gone on record saying that trans women aren't women and has supported TERFs. Multiple times.

Can we please stop pretending that being queer makes you immune to perpetuating misogyny & transmisogyny? He's nonbinary and transfem, yes, but he is still punching down on trans women. That's not okay.

Yes, Rocky Horror is a piece of queer culture. That doesn't mean it isn't transmisogynistic. Transmisogyny is everywhere in our society, including in queer culture. There are other pieces of old queer media you can latch onto, I promise.

[toastedpopsicle]

Y'all think Johnathan Swift actually ate babies don't you?

[dummygothicc]

okay but the understanding of RHPS as nothing but irredeemable, toxic, subversive trash from a bygone age seems to go hand in hand with queers who want to distance themselves from leatherboys, kinksters, pups, xdressers, & exclude them from Pride.

I have literally seen whole threads of people pointing to RHPS & saying 'I'm not THAT kind of queer, I crochet, I am wholesome, I drink cups of tea. I'm NORMAL'.

And this is exactly what RHPS was satiring & holding a mirror up to. THIS IS THE POINT THEY WERE MAKING. that no matter how fucking pure and wholesome you present yourself as, if you're trans and queer, the world hates you too. sitting at the right hand of the Devil does not mean you're immune.

This is not to say that RHPS is a perfect movie that does not invite critique! This is not to say it hasn't done harm! But maybe criticise a film without throwing other queers under the bus for being Too Weird? Yeah?

And for any puritan queers reading this - you owe your liberties to *exactly* the kind of queer you despise & condemn. They threw stones at the first Pride to give you the freedom to kick the ladder down behind your white picket fence. okay? okay

[velvetvexations]

I think my Rocky Horror Picture Show experience is definitely very much so affected by having seen a live production instead of the movie first. Most of the cast and crew were transgender, all were some form of queer, and it was one of the first times in my life I was in a space that was majority queer adults. It was the first time I felt comfortable using a public men's bathroom. After having also seen the movie, I don't think I would have had as great an experience with Rocky Horror if I had just seen the movie first, there's something different about seeing it as a live theater production.

oh tho I would like to add, re: my last ask, that I did have an irl friend who had suffered from a LOT of internalized queerphobia and been in the closet, who came out as bi because of the Rocky Horror Picture Show. So the movie has def done that for some people, and that probably saved them from going down a really bad path of alt-right radicalization given what they'd been watching before coming out

I've seen people moan about the poor trans women who sit in discomfort while all their other queer friends laugh at the transmisogyny, and man, I think that just speaks so much to how sheltered people are nowadays because it's like, oh, is this cis guy playing a villainous pervert singing about being a transvestite from Transexual, Transylvania doing you a transmisogyny? Because he was an icon to each and every trans and GNC person that existed, especially AMAB folk, back when it was essentially legal to hunt us for sport in some places.

No, seriously, that's not hyperbole. I mean that literally.

And it's like...call Rocky Horror dated. Sure. It's dated. But acknowledge that every trans woman who currently has gray hair, not to mention the ones who didn't make it, stood up and shouted all the incredibly lame and unfunny jokes with joy that I will never be able to comprehend as humor but can certainly understand as a matter of community and representation.

[dragons-and-pandas]

The girlies on twitter who can’t handle rocky horror picture show wouldn’t survive Hedwig and the Angry Inch I can tell you that much

[jinglebellrockstars]

my 2 cents on rocky horror discourse:

the lgbt community used to fight cops united and we slowly got placated and corrupted by homophobic capitalist interests to the point where gays cant even be shirtless at pride today without neopuritans upholding respectability politics about it

[peregrine-rnendicant]

[wheretheactionis]

Sometimes I get thrown a little bit because I'm used to joking about how theatre kids are the worst or whatever but normally it's self-deprecation but sometimes I'll stumble on a grown adult in the wilds of social media who wasn't a theatre kid but still somehow despises them or at least thinks it's funny to act like they despise them and I'm like, whoa, let's chill out actually

[euniexenoblade]

The Rocky Horror discourse is so annoying, upsetting, and transmisogynistic cuz it often starts off as trans women just honestly discussing how they have trauma related to it or how the film has all the classic transmisogynistic tropes of killer/rapist man crossdressing or how the creator has said some bigoted stuff, and the tme response to personal stories of trauma and actual media analysis is always the same cycle of responses.

"MY trans women friends love it!" Ok that doesn't matter to the point "It's important queer history!" That's why this discussion matters, we need people to understand that queer history can also be transmisogynistic "it's from 50 years ago society is DIFFERENT!" The world is not so different that transmisogyny doesn't exist "the creator is trans!" The creator has said transmisogynistic things and just because he himself might be tma doesn't mean he can't be transmisogynistic or that his transmisogyny doesn't actually influence his identity. "Rocky Horror is ONLY popular cuz transfems love it!" Spacelazar said this one in response to a post I made about actual trauma I have related to the movie, completely discarding my actual real trauma that's not saying you're not allowed to like or watch the movie, to claim that Rocky Horror is only popular cuz of transfems - that cis society isn't more why it's considered a cult classic.

And, tme people just refuse to empathize and often resort to name calling, memes, often times not just falling into misogynistic standards (hysterical women/trannies amiright guys) but also racist remarks (I saw a white tme person make a "woke" joke to mock a black person).

It's just completely dishonest and transmisogynistic. The discussion isn't "you're not allowed to watch Rocky Horror" or "you're a bad person for enjoying it" it's that it's a piece of problematic media that exhibits transmisogynistic bigotry and instead of using their big kid brains and acknowledging that and moving on, tme people really need Rocky Horror to be exonerated as this piece of perfection. (Tbf I think it's largely just cuz it's trans women having an issue, if cis men said Rocky Horror was offensive and misandric I'm sure people would be like oh yeah it is!).

[marxism-transgenderism]

From the ages of 14-18 I went to rocky horror live performances that a local group did monthly pretty regularly. It was supposed to be 18+ but nobody gave a shit. I still have a pic of me getting a crazy lap dance from some 30something divorced dude. Fun story until you remember I was 15.

I started going pre coming out as transfem and kept going well after. Some others came once or twice but there was only one other trans girl who regularly went. She was very nice to me. She occasionally said some self hating things that a lot of transfems say at one point or another, especially when isolated. But she was a light to me in that place.

I got preyed on there a couple of times. Men and women. Nothing really happened as far as I can remember but I endured behavior I shouldn't have. And I kept coming back.

I have some good memories. A lot actually. It was one of the few places I could experiment with makeup and women's clothes. I made a lot of friends there and brought many too. I still remember nearly all the shout alongs. But it still fucked me up. Pretty much my only model for transfemininity was the tim curry transvestite rapist alien written by a transmisogynistic theymab who's songs we were singing.

I don't really have a point to this other than i hate the discourse surrounding the movie. I hate the lauding of it as a fundamental queer classic like it's something we all need to uphold and protect and not just a bad movie a bunch of mostly white theatre freaks formed groups to shout along at. I hate that the praise it receives by tme people and the dismissal of any criticism makes it so the only practical position that transfems can take is this sucks and you should quit bringing it up.

The way people talk about it you'd assume it's one of the most liberatory pieces of media of all time. But i came up in that type of space and I gotta tell you it's not much different—both in terms of the rampant transmisogyny and the acceptance of gender non conformity—than the experience i had at an official queer youth group non profit that kept up a clean look or the stories I've heard from those who came up in gay bars at an older age than I did. Its really not that special.

[spacelazarwolf]

someone asked what my opinion is on the rocky horror picture show discourse that’s apparently going around and my opinion is that i’m not interested in the opinions of white 20-something’s on tumblr abt a cult classic that was made popular primarily by trans femmes.

[ratbastarddotfuck]

saw a post tonight where someone said that Rocky Horror Picture Show is "TME brainrot" (among other things) and that's just a really embarrassing thing to say considering the writer of that show identifies as transgender (specifically third gender, and "in between" male and female), and was on oestrogen for around a decade. this person is explicitly affected by transmisogyny (and exorsexism). in fact, it might possibly just be a theme in his art (hint: it is).

it's queer art made by a queer person. sorry that the 82 year old trans person doesn't use your specific terminology or agree with your specific discourse takes. you don't get to degender him because you dislike him lol.

[certifiedsexed]

we're having "is rocky horror picture" transmisogynistic discourse today and i am. so tired.

[atrovel]

i’m probably going to delete this if anyone wants to get into an argument, because i know i’m not going to respond well to it, but i’ve been thinking about discourse over Rocky Horror and transmisogyny and i want to voice my opinion.

if Rocky were made today, people would be horrified, and that’s obvious. but it wasn’t, and i think it’s important to consider the context of the time it was made. everybody says this– terminology and representation is going to be outdated. that’s to be expected. but i feel there’s so much more to it than that, and people that find Rocky Horror’s messages to be transphobic didn’t understand it. 

at its core, Rocky Horror is a movie about movies. Brad and Janet are blatant and obvious stereotypes of the lead and love interest in a lot of movies at the time. Brad is a strong, protective family man, and Janet is a damsel in distress who faints a lot. the Transylvanians are an extreme opposite, but they’re also stereotypes– of how queer people were represented in a lot of media at the time. that’s the point.  Dr. Frank-N-Furter is a reflection of how queer people were seen and represented at the time. he’s a stereotype cranked up to eleven, to the point it’s absurd, as obvious parody. the entirety of Rocky Horror is made to parody tropes and stereotypes; that’s what it’s about. the character of Dr. Frank isn’t made to make fun of queer people, but instead to make fun of the trope of villains being aggressively queer-coded compared to heroes in movies at the time.

i do absolutely acknowledge that Rocky Horror’s intent wasn’t and isn’t typically clear to a lot of people, and it can cause harm, but many people interpret it as exactly what it’s clearly making fun of, which is disappointing.

i think the reason Rocky can easily be seen as controversial or bad representation is that it was never intended to be for straight people. this movie is made for lgbtq and ‘unconventional’ people to say “if this is how people are going to see us, then let them” which really resonates with my queer identity. straight people & conservatives are never going to love us like we love each other, so why bother trying to change their minds instead of just embracing it? even though, again, Rocky Horror is outdated, this is a message that is still really relevant today which is why it’s so frustrating to me that so many people take it at face value when it’s blatant parody.

all this being said, if you personally don’t like Rocky Horror because it doesn’t resonate with your experience as a queer person, that’s perfectly fine, and i hold absolutely nothing against you for that. but Rocky has been a safe space for so many queer people for so many years and i think holding genuine anger toward its fans is completely ridiculous. i hope all these words make enough sense, and please be kind! thank you

[piratecaptaincaroline]

rocky horror picture show discourse is easy youre all wrong im the only one who knows how to fix the situation

[roadhogsbigbelly]

they're having "rocky horror show is problematic" discourse on twitter and my only real opinion on it, is that it's funny that "rocky horror has some strong transmisogynistic elements" is treated like. as like a gen z puriteen take and not something i saw trans women on tumblr from 2014 saying like.