#Rhaena meta

[drakaripykiros130ac]

People are so insensitive when it comes to Rhaenyra’s situation. I have never seen so much cruelty directed towards a girl who was put between a rock and a hard place.

You all are acting as though Rhaenyra’s goal in life was to cheat on Laenor and undermine the Velaryons, her allies and her kin. She didn’t sleep around with the purpose of getting back at her husband and having children with other men out of spite (she’s not Cersei).

Rhaenyra was forced into marriage with a gay man and expected to produce heirs not only for the Iron Throne but also for Driftmark. So, an heir and a spare for House Targaryen. Another heir and another spare for House Velaryon. Four children (preferably sons) were expected from her womb. Good luck with that.

Let’s suppose that the rumors are true and Jacaerys, Lucerys and Joffrey are not Laenor’s. Rhaenyra’s decision to have children with another man should be less criticized, and regarded with more sympathy. She couldn’t spend her entire marriage life to Laenor without having children. Her “suitable” options were these:

1. Remain childless and let herself, the Princess of Dragonstone and Heir to the Throne, be called barren.

2. Demand an annulment by exposing Laenor’s nature (confirming the rumors), and not only humiliating House Velaryon (her allies) but also putting the succession of Driftmark into question (since Laenor was Corlys’ only son and his chosen heir).

At a time when a faction of snakes was constantly nipping at her heels, either one of these options would have left Rhaenyra vulnerable at Court.

She took matters into her own hands and had children with another man. And not just another man. This was a man she could trust, her sworn shield, a man who cared for her and who would never betray her (it’s hard to find someone like that).

To claim that she should have chosen a Valyrian (as though the options are unlimited) is extremely superficial. For this to work, she needed someone trustworthy, someone who would not attempt to claim the children later on. We all know that Daemon would have been the best option for her. She loved him, he was Valyrian and her ally. But alas, with his own marriage and life away from Court, it wasn’t really possible. And I am not really sure if Daemon would have been okay with another man laying claim to his children (that is up for debate).

Rhaenyra preferred a man who was trustworthy over a man with the “correct” features. The chances were 50/50 that the children would look like her, and unfortunately, they didn’t. That’s that.

Laenor and Corlys accepted the situation, because they understood what it would cost them all if they didn’t. This whole thing was on their heads. They provided the heir to the throne with a husband incapable of reproducing. It was not Rhaenyra’s fault.

As such, the children were recognized as Velaryons by the father (Laenor), the Lord of Driftmark (Corlys) and the King (Viserys). And these are the only opinions which matter. No one can prove that the boys didn’t inherit Baratheon and/or Arryn genes. Legally, Jacaerys, Lucerys and Joffrey are the sons of Rhaenyra and Laenor.

When it comes to the Iron Throne, it doesn’t matter who fathered Rhaenyra’s children, as long as they are hers. She is the ruling Queen. And we have no way of knowing how things would have gone down after Rhaenyra became Queen. Daemon had two sons of his own. He could have managed to convince Rhaenyra to acknowledge Jacaerys, Lucerys and Joffrey as bastards and then legitimize them, since she has the power to do so. If the boys wouldn’t have been accepted by the Realm (unlikely), there is also the possibility that Rhaenyra could have decided to pass the succession to her and Daemon’s children. Rhaenyra had legitimate heirs who could have taken the throne after her death.

As for Driftmark, despite greedy Vaemond’s ramblings, the succession was just fine. The Velaryon line would have continued through the marriage between Lucerys and Rhaena.

Lucerys had the Velaryon name and Rhaena had the Velaryon blood. Their children would have had the Velaryon name and blood. Problem solved.

People need to stop acting as through Vaemond was some sort of crusader, demanding “justice” for his House. He was just as much of an upstart as the Hightowers and he wanted to take Corlys’ power for himself, and so he took advantage of some rumors to discredit Rhaenyra’s children and advance himself.

Things are not black and white, and given Rhaenyra’s nearly impossible situation, exceptions can be made. And these exceptions wouldn’t have affected neither the succession of Driftmark nor that of the Seven Kingdoms.

[ride-thedragon]

Because I'm seeing the discourse pop up. Fake Rhaena enjoyers do not have a valued opinion when it comes to the leak about her and Nettles.

"Rhaena gets a bigger plot." Rhaena is literally a beckon of hope for her house by the end, the only dragonrider with her dragon of house Targaryen by the end. She has the entire Vale plot, which , as Rhaenyra thinks Tyraxes isn't enough, could easily be her playing the game of thrones and forming a close alliance and meeting her future husband.

"She deserves a dragon." She has one. It's one of the prettiest dragons in ASOIAF history. One that matches with her sisters.

"Nettles' plot points can be transferred." They can't. It's the worst part of the rumour and people acting as though they care about either characters. It's literally impossible for the characters because of how different they are. Neither of their plots can be transferred one to one. Rhaena is a Sansa parallel in the Narrative, Nettles is Daenerys'.

"It stops this conflict." Any conflict in this instance with these two is point of the story. Their conflicts are there for a reason.

"Rhaena can still get Morning" Then WHAT WAS THE FUCKING POINT???? That's actually insane. What would be the point?

To those people who say Rhaena is black, she isn't. I'll link the multiple post as to why:

Here

And here

And Nettles specifically.

The bottom line is that Rhaena is Valyrian. She isn't black within the written narrative even though her actor is. The way these two gentlemen are black, she isn't.

If she takes Nettles' place, it's racism.

So you fake Rhaena enjoyers who probably have a Daemon daughter oc to revoke her in your canon, who can go on for hours about Daemon and the Velaryon boys without one post about his actual children and who hate Laena for no reason can disrespectfully sit this one out. This change doesn't affect you or your enjoyment.

Let's not act as though the Nettles replacement theory doesn't predate Rhaena’s introduction as a character on the show.

Either all the final girls are on screen, or the point of the adaptation is lost before it can establish itself.

[daenysthedreamer101]

I was listening to 'Bloodlines will burn' because it's so beautifuly haunting and sad and I like torturing myself and then, I came across these pictures while listening

.......😭 my beautiful queen! You did not deserve that! They caused her to lose something she always wanted - a daughter.

Look at her eyes in the first pic... 🙃🙃I'm fine. I'm fine. Why would I not be fine?

Visenya could've lived. She could've grown up to be a beautiful woman just like her mother. And she would've been a fierce dragon rider like her mother and father.

Daemon could've taught her High Valyrian and how to wield a sword.

Nyra would've loved dressing her up and doing her hair in the style of Old Valyria.

I know Jace, Luke, Joff would've adored her. They would chase her around the Painted Table and tickled her.

Baela and Rhaena would've been overjoyed to have another sister and girl in the family.

Baela would take her on a ride above Dragonstone on Moondancer.

Rhaena would've picked out the dragon egg that would lay in the crib of her little sister. Or maybe Rhaena would've given Visenya her own egg in the hope of it hatching and bonding with her.

Visenya was robbed of her life before it even started. She was robbed of knowing her parents and siblings. She was robbed of their love. And they were robbed of hers.

I will forever hold a grudge against TG, just for causing Nyra's miscarriage, not including all the other horrible shit they did to Rhaenyra and how they've treated her for years.

[atopcat]

"baela is daemon's favorite daughter" so favorite that he doesn't say a word to her the entire series like (???) the way they treat baela and rhaena in the series is sad and problematic, the two just sit in a corner saying absolutely nothing and every now and then giving little smiles

The treatment of House Velaryon in general is an actual joke, Ryan Condal expects us to give him a pat on the back for doing the bare minimum by casting black actors whilst simultaneously ignoring everything about them.

Look at Baela and Rhaena in the show:

Does this tell you anything about their individual personalities? All I see are two girls who don’t have much going on other than standing around looking pretty, they might as well be cardboard cutouts with how little they’re given to work with.

Now compare this to fan art:

(art by chillyravenart) (art by dalberadiata)

Straight away I know Rhaena is feminine and sweet, whilst Baela is more assertive and a fighter.

George has told us so much about Baela:

She’s wild, willing and fearless

She was considered more boyish than ladylike

She was overly interested in boys

She loved riding her dragon so much she cropped her hair so it wouldn’t whip around her face

She was often chastised for wrestling squires

She was quick to anger

What does the show tell us? Absolutely nothing. We just needed ONE scene, a scene where Baela stands up for herself when Aegon is a creep instead of them making it all about how great Jace is. She refuses to leave Jace’s side in the books, why couldn’t she have a line where she says just that? The idiots even robbed us of her scene with Rhaenys where she shows her fearlessness as a Targaryen princess because apparently Larys being a creep is more important. The show is literally going out of their way to screw her over because she is brimming with personality in the books!

Ryan has told us absolutely nothing about Baela the Brave and Sweet Rhaena of Pentos because he didn’t think of them to be of any importance. He didn’t think the girl who takes down King Aegon II Targaryen and her sister who becomes the last dragon rider until Daenerys Targaryen are of any importance. It’s been left to fans to fill in the gaps and stress the importance of House Targaryen’s final girls because the show refuses to.

These writers are racist af because you just know if they were cast instead it would be a completely different story.

[henriettadreaming]

I really don't understand the writer's reasoning for race swapping the Velaryon's, when every Velaryon is mistreated or cast aside by the all white Targaryen's. Literally everyone of them.

• Corlys - Is apparently so selfish he's willing to disregard all of his blood related family to put a white boy that is no relation to him on his ancestral seat just because he carries his last name? Even though there's plenty of other actual Velaryon's that carry the Velaryon name.

• Vaemond - Gets murdered for telling the truth, and not wanting Driftmark to go to someone who isn't a true Velaryon. I think they only added him calling Rhaenyra a whore after calling her son's bastards to try and make his death justifiable, as if calling someone a bad name = off with his head.

• Laena - Is married to Daemon but knows that she isn't his first choice, and if he had his way he'd be with his (white) niece. Is stuck by his side in Pentos even though he knows she wants to return home. Supposedly dies a *badass* dragon rider death, but I just saw a pregnant black woman dying in agony. Like that doesn't already happen in real life when black women are four times more likely to die in childbirth.

• Laenor - The cuckold of all cuckolds. In almost every scene of adult Laenor he's completely miserable. And apparently he too is willing to disregard all his trueborn family to put a white boy that isn't his on the Driftmark throne. And I don't find Rhaenyra to be some great LGBTQ ally by "letting" Laenor run away and permanently leave his home and family behind so he can be with his partner and she can remarry.

• Baela and Rhaena - Have actual Velaryon blood through their mother, get passed over so another white boy can get something he has no entitlement too. Baela would have had a slim chance of ending up queen because even if Rhaenyra became queen, the lords of Westeros would have been very unlikely to accept an illegitimate son as her heir. Rhaena could become lady of Driftmark but only as a consort through Luke, meaning if he died her claim to Driftmark would die with him.

I'm all for diversity and representation, but was the family who consistently gets walked all over the best choice to make POC?

I think they were aiming for liberal and inclusive, but that doesn't really work when your white characters use and exploit the black characters you've purposely made black.

[thevelaryons]

As parents of queer children, Alyssa and Corlys have rather different approaches to how they handle their children’s sexualities. They’re sensible enough to know that being gay in their society isn’t socially acceptable; though it’s not openly condemned either. But, because of their circumstances, they would hold private misgivings: Alyssa needing her family to conform to societal norms in order to ensure stability for the realm and Corlys wanting heirs of his own blood and feeling frustrated at the lack of.

Alyssa’s daughter, Rhaena, has her share of female companions. I don’t think Alyssa could have anticipated that Rhaena would develop affectionate feelings for other girls. But once it happens, Alyssa, who had previously tried to have her daughter form close bonds with girls now tries to distance them from each other. Of course, she doesn’t isolate Rhaena completely because her daughter is still a princess and therefore, she needs her ladies about her. So instead, Alyssa ensures that if she sees Rhaena getting too close with any girl, she switches them out. Rhaena does not like all the companions her mother provides her but the ones she does like are also the ones that are taken away from her. It’s probably for this reason that Rhaena’s girlfriends are often described as former favourites because they were not allowed to remain by her side for long once they reached the favourite status. As the Queen, Alyssa has complete authority to dismiss any of her daughters’ companions as she sees fit.

Though her mother provided her with a succession of suitable companions, the daughters of lords great and small, Rhaena never seemed to warm to any of them, preferring the company of a book.

[…]

Not long after, Rhaena made her first true friend in the person of her cousin Larissa Velaryon. For a time the two girls were inseparable…until Larissa was suddenly recalled to Driftmark to be wed to the second son of the Evenstar of Tarth. The young are nothing if not resilient, however, and the princess soon found a new companion in the Hand’s daughter, Samantha Stokeworth.

— Fire & Blood, The Sons of the Dragon

It’s the same thing Alyssa later does with her younger daughter, Alysanne. The reason here being the reputation of the family. That is what drives Alyssa’s actions. She is often shown to be a person that does care about public perception.

Alysanne did not choose these companions for herself; they were selected for her by her mother, Queen Alyssa, and they came and went with some frequency, to ascertain that the princess did not grow too fond of any of them. Her sister Rhaena’s penchant for showering an unseemly amount of affection and attention on a succession of favorites, some of whom were considered less than suitable, had been the source of much whispering at court, and the queen did not want Alysanne to be the subject of similar rumors.

— Fire & Blood, A Surfeit of Rulers

Though there are times when Alyssa does allow Rhaena some leniency to spend time with her favourite companions, those moments are very rare. For the most part, Alyssa’s priorities tend to be about the realm.

The princess had been most loath to be parted from her dragon, Dreamfyre, and her latest favorite, Melony Piper, a red-haired maiden from the riverlands. It was only when her mother, Queen Alyssa, sent for Lady Melony to join them on the progress that Rhaena finally put aside her sullenness to join the celebrations.

— Fire & Blood, The Sons of the Dragon

Rhaena was described as being a shy child. Though she did grow out of her shyness, she still had a quiet nature. I think for someone like her, to have even the smallest hint of her identity denied by her parent would feel rather suffocating. Alyssa is the type of person who always looks at the bigger picture but it makes her miss smaller details in the process. She’s too focused on organizing the kingdom/preserving the peace/guiding the King. She’s said to be concerned about rumours that may follow her daughter because of the closeness she shares with other girls so from her perspective, she’s acting to protect her daughter. I doubt she would even realize how Rhaena could feel hurt and isolated by her actions (and Rhaena does voice that she feels pushed away by her own family).

I’d say all this is part of the reason why Rhaena so thoroughly excludes her mother from the new life she attempts to build for herself, with her old favourites by her side. It is either Rhaena seeking out her companions or her companions seeking her out, but it always happens away from Alyssa.

Two of Rhaena’s former favorites, Samantha Stokeworth and Alayne Royce, made their way to Fair Isle in some haste to stand with the widowed queen, together with the groom’s high-spirited sister, the Lady Elissa. The remainder of the guests were bannermen and household knights sworn to either House Farman or House Lannister. King and court remained entirely ignorant of the marriage until a raven from the Rock brought word, days after the wedding feast and the bedding that sealed the match.

[…]

Chroniclers in King’s Landing report that Queen Alyssa was deeply offended by her exclusion from her daughter’s wedding, and that relations between mother and child were never as warm afterward.

— Fire & Blood, The Year of the Three Brides

By the end of Alyssa’s life, she and Rhaena are essentially estranged from each other. Alyssa’s concerns are understandable. With the Targaryen dynasty still young, she would feel that they have to make sure to conform as much as possible with the social norms. The wars against the Faith Militant and Maegor further push her to become more concerned with the family’s discipline. But this does cost her a relationship with her daughter.

Skip forward a few generations and the dynamic between parent and child is different now.

Corlys’ son, Laenor, is said to surround himself in the company of other boys. Since house Velaryon was isolated on Driftmark for many years, after distancing themselves from the royal court, this could have actually helped create a feeling of being free from societal constraints. Laenor’s male companions are considered a steady fixture at his side over the years. He’s allowed such complete freedom in his relationships that his sexuality is basically an open secret, unlike with Rhaena, where it was hushed whispers barely spoken of.

One objection was raised: Laenor Velaryon was now nineteen years of age, yet had never shown any interest in women. Instead he surrounded himself with handsome squires of his own age, and was said to prefer their company. But Grand Maester Mellos dismissed this concern out of hand. “What of it?” he said. “I do not like the taste of fish, but when fish is served, I eat it.”

[…]

The princess knew much and more about Laenor Velaryon, and had no wish to be his bride. “My half-brothers would be more to his taste,” she told the king.

— Fire & Blood, Heirs of the Dragon

Laenor’s easygoing manner at his wedding suggests a level of comfort. He openly gives his favor to another man as if he is not used to hiding himself.

When Rhaenyra bestowed her garter on Ser Harwin, her new husband laughed and gave one of his own to Ser Joffrey.

— Fire & Blood, Heirs of the Dragon

Despite the fact that his wedding turned into a disaster, Laenor’s life does not change too badly.

He is allowed to openly grieve his lover, Joffrey, and he is allowed to return back home to High Tide, rather than conform to a marriage that would give him misery.

Borne bloody from the field, Ser Joffrey died without recovering consciousness six days later. Mushroom tells us that Ser Laenor spent every hour of those days at his bedside and wept bitterly when the Stranger claimed him.

[…]

Ser Laenor returned to Driftmark thereafter, leaving many to wonder if his marriage had ever been consummated. The princess remained at court, surrounded by her friends and admirers.

[…]

Ser Laenor preferred the comforts of High Tide, where he soon found a new favorite in a household knight named Ser Qarl Correy.

— Fire & Blood, Heirs of the Dragon

Qarl is a knight directly under Corlys’ service. As such, if Corlys wanted to, he could have him removed from his household for daring to be in a relationship with his son. Instead, he allows the relationship to persist for many years.

Although Corlys may be frustrated that things aren’t going according to plan, he clearly cares about Laenor’s happiness first and foremost, even if it interferes with any ambitions of his own. But sometimes, Corlys does let his plans interfere with Laenor’s happiness. When Laenor states his intentions to name his sons, Corlys denies him (perhaps the first time he’s ever done so) and has the child named like a Velaryon: Jacaerys. He continues to deny Laenor for the second son too by giving the boy another Velaryon name: Lucerys. But by the time the third son is born, Corlys finally relents to Laenor’s wishes.

Laenor’s wish to name the child Joffrey was overruled by his father, Lord Corlys. Instead the child was given a traditional Velaryon name: Jacaerys.

[…]

Ser Laenor was at last permitted to name a child after his fallen friend, Ser Joffrey Lonmouth.

— Fire & Blood, Heirs of the Dragon

Btw, it’s not Rhaenyra giving the permission here but Corlys. The text makes it rather obvious when she’s finally allowed the right to name her own child and it’s certainly not when it comes to the elder three boys (that’s just a Corlys vs Rhaenyra issue though). I think a lot of people miss this key detail that even naming a child can be a power play among the nobility. Corlys has his own reasons for what he does when it comes to any of his grandsons, but the main reason he would be okay with letting them be his grandsons is surely because Laenor called them sons first. There’s a certain level of indulgence present in the relationship between Corlys and Laenor.

Concerning Laenor’s sexuality, Corlys’ problem appears to be that Laenor does not do his duty to sire actual sons of his body. If Laenor did his duty, then I do not think Corlys would care if Laenor started having relationships with a dozen or a hundred different men. But it’s a frustration that Corlys does eventually come to terms with. He allowed Laenor a freedom of identity and so it’s Laenor who chooses to remain comfortably by Corlys’ side.

[princesssszzzz]

[alicentflorent]

Teen Rhaena reminds me of young Alicent in a way. Besides both being Rhaenyra’s handmaidens and having bad fathers, Rhaena is never involved with the plans everyone’s making about her life like Alicent. People won’t see it this way because Luke was her age and it seems like they got along well but Rhaena (and Baela) was betrothed without her consent to further the ambitions of others for the throne. She wasn’t asked prior to the agreement by Rhaenyra and Rhaenys.

Their feelings are constantly disregarded by those around them because they don’t have dominant personalities. While the other kids/teens (minus Aemond) were being playful and joking around at the dinner table in S1Ep8, Rhaena was sat there very mature, ladylike and proper. When the fight broke out, Rhaena was breaking it up along with the adults. It just reminded me of Alicent’s dynamic with Rhaenyra when they were young. Alicent was always treated like one of the adults by the adults around her , while Rhaenyra was still called “a child” and got to act her age. Her immaturity is taken into account by writers and viewers.

Teen Alicent and teen Rhaena’s grief is minimized by the writers because their grief isn’t loud, angry or rebellious. Again they are mini adults, Alicent doesn’t get the same grace as Rhaenyra despite losing her mother very recently too and we see Baela speak about the loss of Rhaenys to multiple people throughout the episode. We even see Rhaenyra shed tears for Rhaenys (odd because neither woman really liked the other). We see Corlys grieve, we see the smallfolk grieve the damn Dragon. Only one brief scene is given to Rhaena and her grief and it’s not even the focal point of the scene.

Their grief takes the back seat to others and the grief of those others becomes more important than their own. The general audience isn’t going to give much thought to the impact of this loss on Rhaena, just like most of them forget that young Alicent lost her mother too.

Anon, how can you say something so controversial yet so brave?

I definitely see parallels between them. You've listed some perfect examples. I also think Rhaena and Young Alicent both have parallels with Sansa Stark. I sometimes think of Sansa as a character that breaks the cycle Alicent couldn't break and I think the key difference is that Sansa had a family who loved her and who cared about her as more than a political pawn. Her parents tried to save her from her situation in kingslanding. This is a key difference between Rhaena and Alicent too. Rhaena has a support system and a family that loved her she'd never get sold off to an old man to be raped and used as a broodmare and even if daemon tried to arrange a marriage like that Rhaenys and probably even Rhaenyra would likely try to stop it. Baela at her young age would probably kill someone before she allowed her sister to be married off into a horrible situation. Alicent had no one in her corner.

[nobodysuspectsthebutterfly]

While the pre-Aegon I targs receive almost no focus in any published material, how do you think it may have changed in precedent at the Great Councils if there was a ruling Lady of Dragonstone in the ancestry? When I first read F&B, I almost thought there would be a retcon with the Valyrians to be Salic / Agnatic and that would factor into the precedent of the great council of 101. There’s also a pro-daemon argument for agnatic seniority up to Daemon that I would’ve loved to have GRRM explore

Oh, but there was a ruling lady of Dragonstone:

Gaemon Targaryen, brother and husband to Daenys the Dreamer, followed Aenar the Exile as Lord of Dragonstone, and became known as Gaemon the Glorious. Gaemon's son Aegon and his daughter Elaena ruled together after his death. After them the lordship passed to their son Maegon, his brother Aerys, and Aerys's sons, Aelyx, Baelon, and Daemion. The last of the three brothers was Daemion, whose son Aerion then succeeded to Dragonstone.

And we know that Elaena was a Lady in her own right and not just her husband's, because Aerys and Daemion and Aerion had wives, but they aren't spoken of as "ruling together". Therefore Aegon and Elaena's situation must have been with her on the same level as him. But alas, that didn't seem to help much with later succession arguments.

I suppose there might be an agnatic seniority argument, but I can also see that they specifically factored in female heirs and "a daughter before an uncle" of male-preference primogeniture:

As the glad tidings of Rhaena’s birth spread across the land, the realm rejoiced…save, perhaps, for Queen Visenya. Prince Aenys was the unquestioned heir to the Iron Throne, all agreed, but now an issue arose as to whether Prince Maegor remained second in the line of succession, or should be considered to have fallen to third behind the newborn princess. [...] The boy, named Aegon after his grandsire, was born to Lady Alyssa and fathered by Prince Aenys. [...] While many still debated whether Prince Maegor or his niece, Rhaena, should have precedence in the order of succession, it seemed beyond question that Aegon would follow his father, Aenys, just as Aenys would follow Aegon.

BTW, if you're interested, you can see an essay by an actual lawyer stating that the precedent of the Great Council of 101 was no legal precedent at all.

But anyway, you're not the only one who wishes F&B had gone into far greater detail about various legal and social decisions of the Targaryens. @goodqueenaly has gone into it at length, in particular about the politics of matchmaking, and the lack of it in F&B...

[bbygirl-aemond]

the fact that rhaena married garmund hightower and had six daughters with him in canon is SO funny to me bc garmund's older brother, lord hightower, had six kids of his own and it's not just possible but frankly likely that the two sets of children married each other, bringing targaryen blood into the main hightower line.

so like, lord leyton hightower and his mad genius daughter malora could very much have targaryen blood. do you KNOW how loudly daemon must be screaming from beyond the grave?

[blackbyrenflowers]

Just like how the relationship of Aegon and Visenya is more interesting than the relationship of Aegon and Rhaenys (to me at least), I find Jaehaerys and Rhaena's relationship more interesting than Jaehaerys and Alysanne's.

I think it's quite clear that Jaehaerys cares about Rhaena. She's his sister, and he wants to make sure she's happy. Does she need a castle? He can get her a castle. All the castles are full? He'll build one from scratch for her. Oh, she wants Dragonstone instead? Okay, take it.

I feel like this kind of stumbles from Jaehaerys's earliest memories of her, before Aenys's death and Maegor's reign when everything was thrown into chaos - she was the one who put dragon eggs in his and Alysanne's cribs, the shy older sister who liked to play with puppies. He wants to pay back her affection, so he gives her whatever she asks for. He also wants her around: he asks her repeatedly to return to court to live with him and Alysanne, and even goes so far as to offer her a place on his small council to entice her - which she ultimately turns down.

The king suggested that she remain with them at court, even offering her a seat on his small council. That made his sister laugh. "Oh, brother, you sweet man, I fear you would not like any counsel I might offer."

Similarily, I think Rhaena's view of him is of the child he was before Maegor's reign. In her eyes he's still her younger brother, no matter how many people call him Jaeherys the Wise and Jaehaerys the Conciliator. Not in a cruel way, mind you - she might see him as naive, perhaps even a little foolish, but she still loves him. She turns down his offer of a seat on her small council not out of hatred, but because she knows he won't like the advice she gives.

Which I think is a shame, because she had some wise advice for him during the debate on how to treat Maegor's former supporters.

“They will cheer you as the crown is placed upon your head," [Rhaena] said, “as once they cheered our uncle, and before him our father.”

In a world where Rhaena accepted Jaehaerys's offer, it'd be rather interesting to see his early reign turned out. They'd certainly clash a few times, but I think she could offer him some useful insight. Of course, I don't think she would've ever really considered the offer. Even if they were like two peas in a pod and agreed on everything, what Rhaena seemed to desire most of all was her independence and autonomy (which is why I think she would've been absolutely miserable as a queen regnant, but that's for another time).

[drakaripykiros130ac]

Believe it or not, scrapping Nettles and giving her storyline to Rhaena is a big disservice towards Team Black.

Why?

Because Rhaena being able to hatch a dragon after Rhaenyra died (whereas the Greens couldn’t), was a symbol of hope for victory for the Blacks (the right side). Even the Greens were scared of what Morning being born meant for the Realm.

It was basically proof of the Gods favoring the Blacks, and it’s what inspired Rhaenyra’s forces to strike and defeat the usurper.

[ride-thedragon]

I can't stand the lack of attempted understanding of what happened in Driftmark nearly seven years ago in show canon. Let's look at it step by step because the hatred towards Baela and Rhaena is absolutely nonsensical in that aspect.

Rhaena never had the opportunity to claim a dragon before that. She wasn't in Westeros or on Dragonstone. Her father refused to go to Westeros, and her dragon egg didn't hatch. Her father is so caught up in his own self-loathing that she feels that he ignores her because she doesn't have a dragon, when the truth is that in order to have a dragon shed have to go to Westeros, something he doesn't want to do.

Then her mother dies after giving her a story about how she herself claimed Vhagar. Vhagar has been her mother's dragon alone her entire life. No one else's.

Meanwhile, we have Aemond trying to sneak up on Dreamfyre even though she's claimed by Helaena. He clearly has an issue with trying to claim dragons. It stems from the bullying he endures and the inability of anyone to get a handle on Aegon primarily and his influence on his nephews. They are ten and eight to Aemond's 13 and Aegon’s 16.

So yes, Aemond does steal Vhagar from Rhaena. She has every right to say that. She is ten years old in a foreign place, grieving her mother with the expectation that she should try to claim Vhagar because that was Laena's dragon and seemed to belong to them.

Aemond does run away from everyone else and goes behind everyone to claim Vhagar because it's wrong. Everyone seems to have the expectation that the dragon was for Rhaena to claim.

That's not how it works, but they're all kids, so that was the emotion behind it.

Aemond was fighting for his ego as he still does now, and Rhaena and Baela were fighting for their mother's dragon. Jace and Luke were fighting because Aemond decided to say all kinds of abhorrent shit because he's at the top of the world with the biggest dragon.

The point isn't even that any of the kids are wrong, it's that the fighting and animosity between the Blacks and the Greens was allowed to fester to the point that the kids are turned against each other. The innocents are turned into players.

This isn't the absolving of blame either or placing it on Aemond. This was a problem with the adults in all their lives because all the kids hold blame.

Please, leave it alone.

[lemonhemlock]

rhaenys is such a hypocrite. she is an actual claimant to the iron throne and has a female, egg-laying dragon at her disposal, thus allowing her to provide dragon eggs for her own children, which she absolutely does! at one point, house velaryon ends up with two dragonriders (rhaenys & laenor), the exact amount house targaryen has (daemon, rhaenyra). when laena claims vhagar, the balance actually becomes 3-2. 

she is married to corlys velaryon, a very rich man with the ability to summon a very impressive fleet - military might few other lords can dispose of. this grants her a high amount of privilege that no other woman in westeros has, not even aemma or alicent (a half-targaryen with no dragon and a lowly andal woman with no special magical blood, daughter of a second son, not even the lord of oldtown).

yet rhaenys spends the entirety of her life kowtowing to the men around her, even acquiescing to the batshit crazy ploy of marrying her 12-year-old daughter to the king, just because her husband is obsessed with the idea of being the future king’s grandfather. she allows rhaenyra to make a mockery of her adoptive house by having 3 obvious bastards. yes, laenor should be giving part of the blame because he accepts to be cuckolded in such a conspicuous manner, but it creates very real, very valid feelings of disgruntlement within the velaryon cousins when it comes to succession rights. passing off jace as a legitimate heir to the iron throne could be brushed off as the targaryens’ problem, but pushing luke as a claimant to the driftwood throne is absolutely house velaryon’s problem. rhaenys ultimately accepts her granddaughters to be relegated to the status of wives, when they should be heiresses in their own right. she bends over backwards to accommodate rhaenyra when she believes she had her own son killed, just because her husband wants bragging rights for being the king’s “grandfather”!!! this is insane!!! 

jace won’t even be a velaryon when he becomes king, since viserys insisted he revert to the surname targaryen. his kingship isn’t even guaranteed, since he is so obviously not laenor’s child, that a succession war is very likely to be fought over his illegitimacy. so what exactly is all of this tomfoolery even for? 

and then she has the gall to lecture alicent about serving the patriarchy. girl, please go out and touch some grass!!! 😭

how could alicent “imagine herself on the iron throne” when she has zero claim to it? rhaenys, like rhaenyra, has done nothing for the rights of womankind, but enjoys lording over other women, mocking their coping mechanisms. 

how about she start imagining baela on the driftwood throne instead and actually does something about it

[atopcat]

This is absolute bullshit, these racist fucks have written out the only black character in the book replacing her with a canonically white character!

Is it now woke to decide two women are interchangeable simply because they have the same skin colour?!

Nettles matters! I don’t care about the whole love triangle bs, she matters as a little black girl who triumphs as the sole female dragonseed. She’s important because she’s living proof you don’t need Valyrian blood to claim a dragon. She’s the underdog, the one no one thought would survive but does despite everything.

Rhaena’s victory as the last dragon rider until Daenerys Targaryen, Mother of Dragons also matters! Morning is just as her name insinuates, she’s the light who brings hope in the aftermath of one of the darkest times in Targaryen and Westerosi history. You are robbing Rhaena of her triumph, of her success at finally hatching a dragon. She was underestimated, sent to the Vale because she couldn’t help in the war effort. But it’s SHE who brings the Vale army to Kingslanding with the last dragon!

Nettles is a peasant girl whose story is about overcoming hardships and poverty, Rhaena’s is about a royal princess who proves she has blood of the dragon.

These stories are not interchangeable just because both women are black!

[derangedthots]

so i've spoken before abt how jace might've insisted on postponing his and baela's wedding till after the dance (despite ample opportunity/mutual desire) bc his love for her wanted to give her a ceremony without death looming over it. and that his fear for her compelled him not to wed and inevitably bed her when the tragedy of three harrowing labors might take what should be a joyful time away from them and - even more than that - take his beloved baela from him.

but what if, and bear with me for a moment, what if beyond rhaenyra and laena and rhaenys - all three women robbed, in some way shape or form, of a queendom - jace's thoughts took him to another targaryen ancestor, robbed of her birthright, burdened with the loss of her husband, and left alone to defend and protect their children from usurpers? maybe i'm just spitballing but what if jace's nights during the dance were haunted by the memory of rhaena targaryen, black bride, queen of the west, queen of the east, and whose ghost yet haunts the halls of harwin's his father's home at harrenhal?

what if he sees his baela, bold and brave and so beautiful, and knows - gods willing - he'll make her his queen. what if jace sees her and wants so many things for her but not one of those things is to make a rhaena targaryen of her. rhaena who was queen of the west and queen of the east but never ruled as queen of westeros in her own right - and, in trying to spare baela of that fate, jace dies anyway.

and she becomes a bit like rhaena regardless: robbed of her love and her crown.