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fumifooms · 10 months ago

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I feel we talk and speculate about post-canon Marchil. But what about pre-canon Marchil? They may not yet know much about each other's personal lives by the time the story starts. But from the start we could already see that they have some level of rapport and are able to bounce off each other quite well especially given that they see each other as the saner party members.

But we know its not how they started especially given Chilchucks disdain for elves, and the fact that the previous mage/sorcerer of their party supposedly almost broke the party up with their love agendas.

How do you think it played out from there and getting to the start of the manga?

Pre-canon and early Marcille & Chilchuck

Yes, very interesting topic!! There are a good few moments that are telling imo. I don't have any fun way to introduce it all so let's just go right into it, it's gonna be a long post though.

Pre-canon

We do see how they start out:

Like you said, Chil, like the other party members, was very hesitant at first on trusting her, that she’d be a good fit for the party etc, though he doesn’t seem to be taking it any worse than Shuro and Namari (which is interesting since Chil’s distrust of elves is more prominent).

The distrust of mages for their party specifically was due to their old one, implied to have stirred drama by being a marriage seeker with every man in the party yes. We don't know the details but it does paint a certain picture I suppose, I really hope The Adventurer's Bible 2 is gonna have new info or pages about the old party members... Doing an analysis of the party configurations pre-canon would be interesting too, for example there’s the buzzcut guy that’s implied to have betrayed Laios and it’s soo cryptic but intriguing and implied to be a significant moment for Laios, would be worth analyzing the crumbs of info we get in canon... But yes yes point is that's one side of the coin, which is eased when the party gets used to Marcille and she earns their trust by being friendly and nice, BUT there’s the other side of the coin to it where magic has been used to persecute half-foots historically, especially by elves, so there’s that bias that remains even for a good part of canon for Chilchuck, and it's stated the most explicitly when he and Marcille argue over dark magic in chapter 34.

To go back to the pictures above, the panel that shows Marcille "working hard to befriend everyone" contextualizes the extra comic in Chilchuck’s Adventurer’s Bible section(the third picture above) to be set during that time of integration into the party for her. We see they indeed had already their comedic dynamic schtick down by then… And I think that makes sense. Even at the start of canon Chil is still adamant about not making friends and keeping emotional distance, so though I’m sure he was much more standoffish and quiet at first I think going from "I don’t know you and I’ll avoid you" to "I’ll engage with you but I’m not gonna be friendly about it" isn't a big jump and it would happen naturally with time as they get somewhat acquainted.

Chilchuck does value having a good professional dynamic, so he wouldn’t want to be rude or shoot her down, and it’s also that will to help a coworker be efficient that gets him to go out shopping for a pouch with her and makes her able to bond with him on that occasion (Yes I do want to make a fanfic about it hehe. He doesn’t like to wait after people but still went with her for a pouch isn’t that sweet). Considering the way she acts with him in that extra comic, she was already very open and didn’t mind overcrowding him and seeming eager and whatnot. Imo she already looked favorably upon him from the get-go because he’s "a kid" and thus sweet and cute™️, but I still think especially with the added context of the pages on her perspective that she was extra trying to be friendly and encourage engaging with her. Even at their "on good terms for work but no actual relationship" stage at the beginning of canon, Marcille worked to get there and to have that good (decent) of a dynamic with Chil.

Although I don’t think it was especially hard either, I just think it took a while for people to acclimate to her. A lot of the prejudices in Dungeon Meshi are eased and challenged through exposure and contact, like getting a scared dog to see you as safe. "Oh, this guy isn’t so bad after all, guess there are good ones -> guess they have a point -> guess that maybe they’ve always had a point and were never all that evil" etc etc, it’s more nuanced and has variations but hopefully you see what I mean, how prejudices are tackled in Dunmeshi is a very interesting & layered topic for another day.

Ah yes there’s also the extra above in which Chil says how awkward it is to wait with Toshiro and Marcille for the others to arrive, and though it certainly could be mostly about how Toshiro and Marcille don’t get along and that's what makes the air tense, I do think it shows a good level of distance and disinterest between them. It’s often referred to in canon that, previous to canon events, they all truly just had a coworkers dynamic.

Even just hanging out outside of work for a drink was very uncommon. The closest thing to a friend Chilchuck would see someone as in the party would have been Namari I imagine, since it’s shown a few times that those two did go out to drink after work a couple times and got along well (as per the extras about it and some small canon moments).

I think it’s very central to their dynamic at that point that their relationship is professional. According to the timeline it’s been around 1/1.5 year that Marcille has joined Laios’ party at the beginning of canon, and since they dungeon dive regularly that’s a good amount of time to develop a dynamic with a coworker. So yes I think a good way to frame their relationship is that they’re two coworkers, who have been working together well for a while but never developed it into a proper friendship, either from lack of interest or failure to do it, like two cashiers sharing the same shift. They have a bond forged in forced proximity and casual familiarity accumulated over time, which does make their relationship a bit unique and interesting since they would have never become friends under regular circumstances. They're like that sweet & salty sandwich that you have to give a chance to, that'll surprise you and have complementary flavors if you try it out despite seeming disastrous.

Early canon

Their early dynamic is super interesting though!! Both see each other as capable, which I do think is the foundation of their relationship early on, since Marcille thought of him as a kid too closed off on himself and Chilchuck saw her as a somewhat annoying person (afaik) and an elf mage (both which make her more distrust-worthy for him) which doesn't make them very friends material at that point. But like I said, they do see each other as capable not only in their job but with their respective strenghts:

Early on we get the sense that they of course have worked with each other for a while and have a good grasp on the other’s character though, and what they say is insightful on how they think of the other. Above, the excerpt is when Laios and Chilchuck come back with the dead Kabru party’s wet food. "She’s right that wasn’t okay to do. Not good I didn’t catch that, that’s Marcille for you." implying he sees her as sort of the moral compass of the team, that she’s strict on such things but seemingly he values it instead of being offput by it. On her side she says how "he’s usually the most mature here." This is in the kakiage chapter so she still fully believes he's a kid at that point, so it's interesting to see that she still recognizes his maturity demeanor wise.

There is respect there, however how kneecapped or begrudging it is. I think the "you’re the next most normal person in the party after me and you have common sense thank god" dynamic was mostly forged right from the beginning of canon but not before that, since Laios while yes still having some of his questionable leadership previously (since his part was losing faith in him before Marcille joined) was more stoic and controlled, so 1) there is no great evil to band up against in the party, plus there were just more people, so 2) less reason or occasion to seek specifically each other out. But then without Toshiro and Namari they were the only person the other had when Laios started showing his interest in monsters and whatnot, the whole party dynamic got thrown upside down which made them gravitate towards each other more than they usually did. And then Senshi came into the picture but Marcille and Chilchuck had already traumabonded like kittens /j and Senshi turned out to also have an interest in monsters. I do feel like pre-canon they simply didn’t interact as much, more one-off moments and short shallow interactions and the occasional deeper, pleasant enough conversation than anything, so canon events is what really kickstarted it into something more than (acquaintance level emotional distance) coworkers.

And on that note, I think that the true shift in their relationship starts after the red dragon arc, when their goal becomes more convoluted and they’ll have to stick to each other’s side through truly thick and thin. It’s right after that Chilchuck gets a shift in character and motivation where he admits that he cares about them, and when the characters start being overall more vulnerable with each other.

I think about this page a ton for example.

"Still, that Marcille…" Maybe I should check out how the original phrased it, the ‘that’ does add a lot, but even without it there's a very impersonal feeling to it. Like they really are just starting to get accustomed to each other after all and sizing each other up, which isn’t all that wrong considering the context of finding something very important about her out that would shift everyone's perception of her, but it does definitely show distance imo, even with this being after the dragon arc at chapter 29. He thinks of her as silly and sketchy at that point as per the scene with Leed... It's rocky, it's rocky, but they do hash things out together and continue to respect each other's perspective and points, as seen for eample how they strategize together when they meet Shuro and Kabru's parties. And yes, that's super interesting!! The scene after his talk with Leed where he admits he cares about the party member is the point where Chilchuck stops pretending to only be in it for the money and he lets himself bond with the others more, so it makes sense to me that he'd have processed the whole "Marcille dark elf" thing and moved past it, but it does show a lot of trust in Marcille that even despite her dark magic show he goes to her for strategy talk and like, doesn't worry about her doing faux-pas and getting themselves killed or in jail unlike with Laios or Senshi which he feels the need to monitor lol.

I think the bicorn chapter is the chapter that truly cements them as having a relationship in its own right. He opened up about himself and let her in on personal aspects of his life, and that makes him finally ready to fully drop the wall of "coworkers only, no friends nope, our relationship starts and stops at when we enter and leave the dungeon". And of course by the end he's straight up saying he'll introduce her to his family lol <3

Conclusion

So yes overall they do seem to know each other the way longtime acquaintances would, and they have a good grasp on each other’s character, but their vision of each other is severely kneecapped by other factors, Marcille seeing him as a kid and him having a bias against elves and mages and also just optimistic nosy people lol. Chilchuck is only interested in working with her efficiently, without making friends, and besides him being a coworker whose skills are very needed Marcille is only interested in him in a gossip curiosity way and in a ‘Aww I should make an effort to include the kid in things, he should open up more!’ patronizing and infantilizing way. You can’t really bond as an equal with someone you think is a kid after all, so early on it’s more of a caring after attention/interest she has for him, and the process of her growing to see him as an adult is very slow and gradual. They're tough to feasibly work with in a shipping sense early on, like yes ok they have very funny chemistry but at what cost... But I sure do love slow burns and complicated people growing to love each other through learning about them through thick and thin and compromising to better themselves and make it work, so!!

It’d be interesting to have marchil (wether platonic or romantic) fancontent exploring their pre-canon relationship, especially if we were to try and have them learn to know each other more and form a deeper bond and all, but it literally took all of canon to get them there. It took them having to do a desperate emergency dungeon dive with initially only 3 party members, where they don’t have any choice but to spend a lot of time in almost only each other’s company and have to forgo the usual boundaries, when fighting for each other’s lives and learning things about each other like being a 'dark elf' or a 'father of three'. It took 57 chapters and a lie-detecting virtue-detecting monster for him to open up about his wife and family, and who knows how long it’d have taken without that monster or without it having attacked him, serving as evidence that he’d been lying about it. Who knows how long he’d have been fine lying, y’know?? And learning that he cheated on his wife made her esteem for him tank, it’d have made them more tense with each other if anything if the bicorn hadn't proven his lie wrong. Beause it's def implied too that Chilchuck would have said that lie if super pushed int otalking about his wife, which would have happen with or without a bicorn appearing in their path right then.

In the end it’s like how Laios said, thank you Falin for being eaten, and thank you everyone for being the gender that you are, because if any detail had been different the adventure either wouldn’t have happened or would have happened very differently (worse). Best marchil slow burn is canon real?!! Jk there’s so much that could be done with them both pre-canon, during canon and post-canon, but yeahh they’re such complex characters with a complex dynamic that making it both organic and IC would be so hard. I do like the take that he is attracted to her to some degree though, and I feel like Marcille has a general curiosity and interest in romance and maybe experiencing it herself, so I wouldn't say that spontaneous interest would be impossible, but the biggest obstacle is Chilchuck's wife situation tbh because the man is planning on staying faithful and celibate right up to at least divorce if not his grave lol.

Now I do want to write a canon divergent thing where Chil refused to try and tame the bicorn and the party kept on thinking he’d cheated on her and the new dynamic with Marcille though… Eventually she wants to understand him and ask about it, and it keeps getting worse, before it starts getting better because this time around exhaustion caught up to him and he didn’t need the bicorn to make him admit he hasn’t… The whole end thing of his arc would have to happen pretty differently man, whew, especially since he has a complex where he doesn’t see himself as a good man, not virtuous or moral, cowardly and selfish etc etc, so without having a monster with its objective monster senses going "ew you’re a virtuous husband I hate u" it’d have been harder for him to truly consider that maybe the situation isn’t quite as hopeless as he thought and he should at least try blablabla. But Marcille is the next best thing to a bicorn, she can psychoanalyze him and hype him up, I have faith I have faith. Most feasibly though I feel like pre-canon fics with them would be ficlets of moments in which they unexpectedly interacted and went the small extra mile of going beyond small talk and both try to connect a bit, learning to know each other just a bit more, piquing interest or curiosity or making them re-evaluate each other, that’d be fun.

Like you said it's not a topic that's often analyzed and all, so I ended up going all out and being somewhat rambly... Apologies apologies, hopefully this wasn't hard to follow along with, and was good food for thought and had good points! Maybe it feels a bit far from your initial question that was only about going from their first meeting to the start of canon, but I feel like only analyzing their early relationship in that scope and consider the first hurdle in them growing closer fully over and done with doesn't encapsulate the core of their issues with each other and how they deal with them and eventually overcome them. It took a lot of time and insistance and efforts and for their prejudices to be challenged and proven wrong many, many times for it to truly stick and for them to be truly comfortable and open with each other. Early marchil truly has traumabonded retail coworkers energy to me lol, speaking from experience and traumabonded being meant as an hyperbole.

#ask #dungeon meshi #delicious in dungeon #spoilers #dungeon meshi manga spoilers #marcille donato #chilchuck tims #marchil #analysis #relationship analysis #i'd say scene analysis but not in depth enough for that #uhh yeah yeah these tags work that's the summary of it #fic brainstorming #pushing the retail metaphor but they've spent a good amount of their life working together that they'll always be linked in that way #And that makes them have a familiar rapport and an efficient dynamic. But like. If someone needs to go fill up the straw container or mop #the floors 2 dead 3 injured they are ready to argue and explode each other. And then the shift ends and it's see you again tomorrow!#'I can't stand them but thank god someone else here is capable' lmao these tags probably sound insane but I think the retail metaphor is fu

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