#Raw milk

[cynicalclassicist]

In conclusion, drink pasteurised milk! Don't think that it's somehow more machismo to drink raw milk! You're just being stupid.

But if you listen to the bullshit GOP-types spew out, then how fitting that you're going to drink cowshit down. Enjoy drinking that shit!

[animentality]

[reality-detective]

Alcohol = legal ✅

Cigarettes = legal ✅

Processed food = legal ✅

Raw milk = ILLEGAL ❌

Imagine That? What's good is bad and what's bad is good. 🤔

[mudwerks]

My dad was a large-animal vet in rural Indiana when I was a kid. I spent a lot of time around cows, dairy farms, etc. Illness and disease (and filth) were obviously a big part of that experience.

I will fully vouch for this statement.

[thingstrumperssay]

I know that this was in 2016, but it's relevant again.

Also the fact that it made it's way to a Reddit sub called "aged like milk" is funny to me.

[liberalsarecool]

Enjoy!

[thebookishwallflower]

I want to make a post to inform people about the current situation with the bird flu (/avian flu/H5N1) outbreaks.

I don't want to cause panic but do want to spread information.

This is especially important if you live in an area that has a news system you don't trust to give accurate, timely, or honest news about something like a possible new pandemic, use your own judgement.

If that applies it is going to be very important to make sure you stay informed and follow these H5N1 outbreaks yourself and know how to best protect yourself.

I am no expert, but I do know a good bit about disease and influenza in particular, and have been following the H5N1 outbreaks as they've been happening, so under the cut I'm going to do my best to inform everyone I can.

Please stay safe, stay informed, and spread information, not germs.

What's bird flu and why do I care? (What's bird flu and why do I care?)

Avian flu and bird flu mean the same thing, an influenza virus that (primarily) infects birds. H5N1 denotes a specific strain of avian influenza. H5N1 can spillover (when a pathogen spreads from it's normal host organism to a new host organism) from animals to humans.

How could I get H5N1? (How could I get H5N1?)

Human to human transmission has not been observed yet (12/1/24) during this current outbreak. You can get this from contact with wild birds, especially water fowl, domestic birds, cattle, pigs, horses, dogs, and bats. It is also possible to get from raw (unpasteurized) milk and undercooked meat from infected animals.

What's the big deal then? (What's the big deal then?)

The common flu is not very pathogenic. How pathogenic something is determines how sick something makes the host, something that is highly pathogenic can cause severe disease. H5N1 is considered a HPAI, Highly Pathogenic Avian Influenza.

H5N1 is also a Type A influenza virus, most known Type A influenza viruses can infect birds. There is one Type A human flu in circulation at the moment, however it isn't very prevalent.

"IAV poses a significant risk of zoonotic infection, host switch, and the generation of pandemic viruses. IAVs can infect humans and a variety of animals, such as pigs, horses, marine mammals, cats, dogs, and birds (S1)."

IAV - Influenza A Viruses | Zoonotic infection - when an infectious disease of a non-human host infects a human host | Host switch - when a cross-species transmission of a pathogen can lead to successful, stable, and continuous infections

Every species the flu infects, the more strains that pop up under a sub-type IAV, the possibility for recombination increases. "Recombination occurs when at least two viral genomes [or strains] co-infect the same host cell and exchange genetic segments (S2)."

The flu is pretty good at recombination, when given the chance. It is also really good at mutating, and fast. If there were to be a recombination event and a new strain evolved (this would be called an antigenic shift) that was highly pathogenic, highly infectious (good at spreading, which H5N1 is), that could then infect humans and cause human-to-human transmission we might have a pandemic on our hands. This has not shown signs of happening during this outbreak*, this is what to look out for.

This (a recombination event) is what caused the 1918 pandemic during WW1. This pandemic killed an estimated 50 to 100 million people in 1918, in a world with a population of around 2 billion. 7.1 million died of COVID 19, as of 11/9/24 (S3), from a population of around 8 billion.

We know more, we are prepared, it's not guaranteed to happen, and it's not guaranteed to be as bad. But the possibilities are endless and it's extremely important to be prepared and stay informed.

So what do I do? (So what do I do?)

Again, stay informed, and that might mean checking independent news sources, the CDC website, and more, to keep yourself updated, especially if you know your local news won't do it for you. You should also familiarize yourself with the symptoms of influenza, if you have it, stay home.

Keep yourself safe, we had a pandemic already, you know the drill. Cover your nose and mouth when sneezing/coughing, wash your hands, sanitize your hands, and get your flu shot. And, in addition, avoid contact with wild birds, poultry, pigs, and cattle if you can.

In the event that this gets worse, social distancing is very important, being outdoors, wearing a mask, and all the stuff above, you can shed the virus for around a week before you start feeling bad. Keep yourself safe and don't infect anyone else.

If that doesn't sound like it'll do much, I promise you it does. Those are all classified NPI's (non-pharmaceutical interventions) and even epidemiologists were shocked at their impact and importance during the COVID-19 pandemic. They did work, and they were incredibly effective—as long as they were carried out.

I don't want to cause panic or worry anyone, but that is how information ends of suppressed. I want to make everyone aware of what we might face so that we can fight it and be strong and stay safe.

If anyone has any questions, wants any clarification, any corrections, or wants to know some good places to learn more about this stuff please don't hesitate to contact me (@'s, dm's, or asks), I will answer as best I can.

Here's the CDC's page covering the H5 bird flu current situation.

S1 - https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC5578040/

S2 - https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7106159/

S3 - https://data.who.int/dashboards/covid19/deaths?n=c

*with the exception of this coverage (as a possibility): https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/nov/19/bird-flu-cases-mutation-canada

[pandemic-info]

[The] concern about the risk that infected raw milk poses is not so much that the practice might somehow help the virus to mutate in ways that would allow it to spread easily to and among people [aka trigger a pandemic, but that] it would likely seriously sicken people who drink raw milk from an H5N1-infected cow.

...

Because of their biology, the influenza A viruses that routinely transmit among people — H1N1 and H3N2 — are effectively limited to infecting the cells in the respiratory tract, said Florian Krammer, an influenza virologist at the Icahn School of Medicine at Mount Sinai in New York.

But H5N1 has more tricks up its sleeve than seasonal flu viruses do; it can infect organs other than the lungs. Kuiken noted that the virus has been seen to move into the liver, the central nervous system and the brain, among other tissues.

Addendum: raw milk CANNOT give you antibodies that would be protective against H5N1. These antibodies are proteins; proteins are broken down into amino acids during digestion. They do not enter the blood stream and cannot protect against respiratory disease. It’s more likely that a live virus could be ingested, making you ill.

More info:

https://yourlocalepidemiologist.substack.com/p/no-there-are-likely-no-immune-benefits

It’s also useful to know what pasteurization actually is: simply, flash-heating to ultra-high temperatures. That’s it. There’s no “chemicals”, nothing. But this isn’t something anyone can just do at home.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/what-is-pasteurization-and-how-does-it-keep-milk-safe/

[ralfmaximus]

According to a November 27 alert by the California health department, officials in Santa Clara County found evidence of bird flu virus in retail samples of a batch of Raw Farm's milk, which has been recalled. It is the second time that retail testing has turned up positive results for the company and spurred a recall. The first contaminated batch was reported on November 24. The two recalled batches are those with lot codes 20241109 ("Best By" date of November 27, 2024) and 20241119 (Best By date of December 7, 2024). In an email to Ars on Monday, Raw Farm CEO Mark McAfee said that none of the company's cows are visibly sick but that it appears that asymptomatic cows are shedding the avian influenza virus.

Well thank god his cows don't look sick.

Oh if only there was some way that makes raw milk safe for consumption. Some kind of, I dunno, process that heats it up temporarily and kills viruses & bacteria. Wouldn't that be amazing??

[tacitusk1llwhore]

Watching people blame the TB outbreak on everything but raw milk (which caused the deaths of thousands of people yearly prior to pasteurization), which is known to carry TB, is maddening. Please… stop drinking raw milk.

It’s more scary because the same people who drink raw milk are the ones who won’t get medical attention or take antibiotics or steroids and will die a horrible, painful death—or will then stop before the 6-month course of antibiotics is up, which will then spread treatment-resistant TB around the US.

TB isn’t a common cold; it will shut down your organs and make you drown in your own blood as your lungs fill with it. Raw milk isn’t worth it; please educate yourself.

You do not want your Arthur Morgan era like this. I promise.

[enbycrip]

I am seeing so many people, especially so many veggies and vegans, laughing at the horrific right-wing thing for “raw” (unpasteurised) milk.

Please don’t. This is massively increasing the spread of zoonotic diseases like H5N1 that could *easily* become human-human transmissible - with H5N1 that’s already spinning towards *will* become human-human transmissible, and while horrific conditions on farms, including how badly they treat their human workers as well as how horrific they are to the animals, are still the primary cause of that, this bullshit is *materially* impacting it.

These people feed the stuff to their kids, who are already major transmission vectors because of school conditions. They spit it out into vulnerable communities who don’t share their horrific views; I’m chronically ill and the amount of horrific utter bullshit like this that goes out into communities of people who have been let down again and again by doctors who dismiss very real symptoms of illness, who try it because they are desperate, and then die because they are medically vulnerable.

Ring-wing ideologies *materially* impacted our ability to fight COVID, and continue to do so, and it’s the most vulnerable people in society that paid, and are continuing to pay, for that. Now they are materially increasing our risk of even more devastating pandemics.

[foldedchip]

I don’t think anybody is going to read this but I just want to say that pasteurized milk is not bad for you. They don’t add anything “unnatural” to it, they just strategically heat it for a few seconds in a long tube so it kills the bacteria inside. That’s what pasteurization is, that’s all it is. Drinking raw milk can make you very ill and even kill you. People drank raw milk in the past because they didn’t know it was dangerous, not because raw milk is more nutritious than pasteurized. Raw milk is a likely place for dangerous bacteria to fester and ingesting it may cause harm to human bodies, but pasteurized milk is a common animal product that can be a nutritious food source if you’re able to digest it properly. Thank you. Do not drink raw milk.

[justinspoliticalcorner]

Oliver Willis at Daily Kos:

Drinking raw, unpasteurized milk was once mainly touted by a small group of people on the left, often those skeptical of corporate farming. But now, as concerns increase about the possibility that avian flu might be transmittable to humans via consumption of raw milk, MAGA conservatives have taken up the cause. The Food and Drug Administration and the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention warn against consuming unpasteurized milk. Pasteurization kills pathogens in milk, and when that process is skipped, the milk may contain dangerous germs, such as salmonella, E. coli, listeria, and others. The CDC has recorded 202 outbreaks involving raw milk between 1998 and 2018, resulting in over 2,600 illnesses and 228 hospitalizations.

Since 2020, several Republican-led states have passed legislation or changed regulations allowing the sale of raw milk, despite these health concerns. The states include Alaska, Georgia, Iowa, Montana, North Dakota, and Wyoming. At the same time, MAGA influencers have started promoting raw milk. Alex Clark, a podcast host for the far-right students group Turning Point USA, has extolled the virtues of raw milk for pregnant women, despite that the FDA has specifically warned that pregnancies can be harmed through the consumption of raw milk. Undeterred by science, Turning Point USA has sold T-shirts and glass straws with pro-raw-milk slogans.

Robert F. Kennedy Jr., Trump’s pick to lead the Department of Health and Human Services, is a raw-milk advocate as well. Speaking before a pro-raw-milk group in 2022, Kennedy said it is the only type of milk he consumes. He has also advocated for eliminating federal regulations governing raw milk and has complained about the “aggressive suppression” of raw milk.  [...] Conservatism has historically been motivated by mistrust of the scientific establishment and the scientific process, along with a desire to “trigger” liberals with disturbing behavior. In recent history, this drive was demonstrated by conservative complaints and protests about masking during the COVID-19 pandemic, even as public health officials advocated for masking to stop the spread of the virus. Conservatives also railed against mandatory vaccination policies, though these policies were a key weapon in the fight against infection.

Why is MAGA/MAHA world obsessed with raw milk? Because in their warped worldview, it’s all about sticking it to the “liberals” and opposing expertise.

[thingstrumperssay]

Well, that didn't take long.

[yxlenas]

Anyway there's a TB outbreak in Kansas